The 2010 Saab 9-5 is so good that Henderson doesn't want to let it go.

No problem. He could even sell Saab and keep the blueprints for the 9-5, have it built in Rüsselsheim and sell it as an Opel. No nice prospective, though.

But we really don't know. Maybe, Henderson just tries to improve GM's position for the negotiations started.

While I enjoy all the speculation on the business side of Saab, what's really encouraging is the continuing stream of information that suggest that the 9-5 is going to very good. What a great resource this site has become!

Yeah it is true, i can confirm that Opel engineers prefer 9-5 over insignia by far (as far as i know primarily in NVH,saftey,geometrical(Design and Tolerancing),overall handling and space).

Great car.

Eat it GM!!!, now you realize the true power of Saab and how you drain all its resources during the last 20 years, instead of enpower a win-win relationship it will succeed with more competitive products for both.

This isn't the first time it happend. Remember the first Saab 9-7x project based in the first Cadillac SRX, in its internal tests they saw it was far superior to the Cadillac, that decided to cancell the Saab project for fair to canibalize Cadillac sales.

regards

Hard to know what to think when an advert for Cadillac's SRX crossover is displayed next to this post (isn't that the Cadillac version of Saab's 9-4X)?

Maybe if Henderson had been CEO last year, he would not have decided to sell Saab so quickly and instead would have locked Lutz in a closet?....seller's remorse is positive for Saab.

I disagree, Karen. Seller's remorse is very bad for SAAB as GM will never let SAAB outdo Cadillac.

I think it would be hard for mr Henderson to defend the $800+ million spent on Saab's reorganisation in case he would put Saab in bankruptcy. They would still gain more by forefitting the debts of $1 billion to the new owner, and get the money from the deal, than putting Saab in bankruptcy and get no cash at all (just reorganisationcosts + debts = no win).

Ironic that Saab built a car that is too good...

The first SRX launched in 2003, not the nowadays SRX.

regards

What a pr-one-ck!! It was GM that wanted to sell Saab and now they have what must be a car that is every bit as good as anything the Germans can build and clearly better that any American crud that has ever been produced (not difficult) the boss of GM is having a tantrum! He can go and ............

Can GM refuse to sell Saab and force it into bankruptcy?

what a wanker you are Mr Henderson,

NEGATIVE ATTITUDES GET ZERO RETURN,

If GM decided to keep Saab (assuming that were possible?), would they keep Saab's technicians locked in the basement for another 10 years, working on the next generation of Caddy/Chevy/Buick technology? GM had its chance to develop a healthy synergy with Saab and have BLOWN IT time after time. Saab had a great product portfolio in development 10 years ago but the collective was too ignorant to realize Saab was on the right track. Or just too greedy to invest in Saab's ideas. Why invest the money when you can stick a Saab badge on a Subaru or a Chevy and call it a day, right? I'm thinking of another place for GM to stick one right now...

The 9-5 Aero is talked about as being equivalent to the Insignia OPC? Unless I'm mistaken that must mean that the 9-5 Aero will get the 325-330hp version of the 2.8T, to which I say "WOOHOO!!"

I'd like for the 9-5 to come with an M5-killing variant, but the 2.8T at 330hp with it's competitive torque curve, etc should be able to give the A6 4.2, 550i GS460 and the M45 a real run for their money performance-wise, especially if it's as dynamically adept as that report leads us to believe.

I can't wait to see this car hit the reviews, let alone get to test-drive it myself.

The 9-5 should be superior. It's a premium model and the Insignia is just a mainstream car. The Insignia is in fact, inferior to the Mondeo in some areas. The 9-5 needs to be noticeably better than both of those cars if it is sucessfully compete with other premium models.

I get the feeling that GM is thinking that if it can't have the new 9-5, then nobody should. After all the years of dirty tricks, do you seriously expect anything else? Anyway at the moment I'd think it would be the US government deciding GM policy, not Henderson. I think it's high time GM's reorganization commenced, then people like Henderson will have bigger worries than Saab.

Now my head has cleared its quite clear GM is using this threat to leverage its bargaining position. All this spin about Geely is scaring me though!

Henderson's worries are well founded. The Insigna is the only product keeping Opel alive.

The 9-5 will be demonstrably better in every way, and will cost less to build because of exchange rates and Trollhattan's higher efficiency.

Opel is stuck between a rock and a hard place. They will need to cut margins to compete with the 9-5, but they can't do that without risking the whole company.

Saab on the other hand can either choose to make a big margin on each 9-5 by pricing it a few thousand Euros higher than the equivalent Insigna, or they can end Opel's misery by going head-to-head. I'm guessing they will benefit more from keeping Opel alive, given that they share suppliers.

I hope killing Saab idea is just a marketing trick.

Killing Saab could cause political problems between USA and Sweden.

I dont buy this claim that 9-5 superiority was suprise to GM Europe. Already many years ago they made plans that 9-5 will have some more expensive parts, like suspension.

If you would gather all the engineers who have been involved in developping components for the 9-5, and ask them "what company do you belong to?", what would you expect? I am quite sure that the mayority of them would answer "I work for Opel". So, don't get too excited about the technological skills of Saab Automobile AB right now. Don't forget that just a couple of years ago, half of the engineers working for Saab have been layed off (reduced to 450 from 900).

I also like to remark that after some Wikipedia research, I would now assume that in order to compete in the business class market -and in particular to convince the managers responsible for company car fleets- Saab must have a top range product with a high power output. 235 kW, as in the OPC, is not too much in this regard. The competition's more powerful offerings:
A6: 162, 213, 257, 320, 426 kW
5er: 225- 373 kW
E class: 200, 215, 285, 386 kW
Jag XF: 175, 219, 283, 306, 375 kW

Much more problematic is the situation with Diesel engines, which are an absolute must in Europe. There is a gap in GM's offerings, as there is presently no powerful Diesel available (A6: up to 176 kW, E: 170, 5er: 210; XF: 202 kW).

Sounds too much like a wild speculation. It is for granted that the 9-5 will be a better car than the Insignia, such like the 9-3 is a better car than the Vectra in every respect.

Besides, a good 9-5 will be the last of Henderson's worries when GM itself is on the verge of reorganization.

Looks like that people at GM are realizing
That SAAB is ligtyears ahead of them in all
Aspects and they starting to kick themself..
in the butt.
Thinking ; what a hell we are doing.
Well GM you had 20 years for that.
Now please let yours child go in the peace
because maybe one day you may need that
Child to help you.

No GM! No GM! No GM!

If any of this is true it is ego. They don't want to hear in all the reviews of the 9-5, how good a car they could have had and how great a company they squandered for years. Working in "Squalor" and producing something special its like Cinderella...Gm the evil stepmother holding SAAB back. We will hear it over and over and I for one welcome the dose of reality.

Chris

+1
+1
+1

One aspect doesn't seem logical to me. I presume in it's present state, the 2010 9-5 would have lots of GM parts in it, wouldn't it? If so, I'd think Henderson would want the new 9-5 to succeed even if Saab is no longer owned by GM b/c GM will still profit off selling all those GM parts that are going into the car.

Hold on a mo...

Why are GM worried about the 9-5 competing with the Insig?

They're selling Opel, too - so it's not their problem!

Anyway - isn't the 9-5 WAAAAY above the Insig in market segment? Surely the 9-3 is more the Insig competitor?

Now that Insigs are starting to become a fairly common sight here in the UK, I can only say that it really wouldn't be hard to be "cooler" - it's a godawful lardy, blobby, unbalanced, visual mess.

Don't forget that this is a speculative article in a tabloid in Sweden. I guess there are all sorts of feelings all around inside GM (including Saab), so it should probably be taken with a truckload of salt.

After all the hoopla, after all the anguish, it would be more than bizarre for GM to keep Saab, or even consider the option.

GM will be in bankruptcy very soon. Saab would likely be sold at that time as a "non core asset" for it doesn't fit, and the SWE government wouldn't lend money to a soon to be bankrupt entity.

While fun to discuss, this is a non issue.

@Thyl,

The direct injection will be a basically off-the-shelf Bosch system, with just the mounting hardware and mapping specific for the fitment. That's the easy bit...

Mr Henderson is the antichrist!

GM can exit the game now! They won't be missed... They go from one idiot boss to the next.

Don't forget, this car was developed under GM!

Lutz was talking the future cars up last year. Also I spoke to a Russelheim based long-time SAAB staffer last year who promised that SAAB would outpower and out-tech equivalent Insignias.

That doesn't discount just how much of a surprise the outcome might have been for GM/Opel. The chassis tuners are SAAB guys. I wonder if the 9-4X is going to kick the butt of the SRX, that is more significant!

That's too damn bad, Fritz. You and the rest of GM management had 18+ years to get it right. Since the early eighties, I've ALWAYS admired and respected SAAB is because of their innovation, their perserverance and the confidence they have in themselves and in their company, oh, and of course what did to "Turbocharging." They are NOT still here, primarily because of GM; they're still here because of the cars and the loyal customers.

Sorry for the rant, but this burns me up. This guy is so unbelievable. What a jerk. I'm convinced the "Like Minds" analogy applied here. Wagoner, (Nutz, I mean) Lutz and Henderson were all under one roof,........sobering picture.

I can't imagine the GM guys being too worried about the 9-5. It is and will ever be a niche product - not because of its own positioning but because of the brand.
I suspect, most Saab clients wouldn't buy an Insignia and most Opel clients wouldn't think of buying a Saab even if it's better. In many cases buying cars depends on the brand's philosophy and concerning philosophy Saab is a class of its own.
The only markets in which the 9-5 could steal "important" numbers from the Insignia are IMHO GB and Sweden.

This GM bankruptcy thing is like being in a bus travelling towards a cliff at 5 kph .......we all know its going to happen.....just not sure when to jump off !!
The sooner GM goes into chapter 11 and they get their restructuring sorted the better !
That will give the US Government appointed administrators the choice to sell what bands and to who !
And with a bit of luck take the decision making away from the incompetents in GM management that created this mess !!!!!!

BTW...9-5 Aero in testing wooohooo!! Geez, get excited everybody!

Relax, Mr Henderson has just had some media coaching from the GM Communications team and they basically said : "just do what Bob Lutz did, people loved him." And so now we have another bull in the china shop doing just that. Sit back, enjoy the show........its going to get sillier before it finishes..

Caddy has dropped out of Europe, Buick is not represented in Europe. Caddy has the CTS and Buick an equivalent to the NG9-5 in the new LaCrosse... What do the worry about?
Saab will sell the 9-5 in parts of the world GM´s american premium/luxury brands do not sell. And in the US Saab can´t touch either Buick or Caddy in sales.
Buick is going well in China and it would be realy strange if Saab were to outdo Buick there.

Saab will go head to head with Audi/BMW/Lexus/Infinity/Accura and Caddy.. But the numbers lost to Saabs advantage is so small it will not affect the competitors budget. Saab will get black nubers in their books and the competitors will get a nescessary wakeup call.
It´s a win-win situation for everybody in the premium segment.

And one can´t cry for Opels sake when it comes to margins.. This might be what the doctor ordered for them.. Get more effective! Study Saab, do what Saab do and get your head out of the clouds.

I think the article was going into direction that GM would rather shut down SAAB then sell it to Geely, which will in that case get top technology, latest platforms for no money. If Geely would dare to copy it and make new models of cheaper Geely middle-class cars, which would be tough competition for Opel and GM brands, is not a question for me, it is a fact. So, for GM is merging SAAB with Opel and selling them to FIAT for 30% of shares the best possible option. And we as much as we think that JÅJ and SAAB people make some decisions, the final decision will be made by the big daddy-GM.

Ther is an article on automotorsport.se

http://www.automotorsport.se/news/18042/%C3%A5rets-bil-i-europa--%C3%A4r-det-nya-saab-9-5/

about this. They also refeer to the Article in Expressen, and to my point of view, they do summarize it quite well. Henderson is worried about this car going to a wrong competitor like Geely.
Think about Geely selling this 9-5 in China, It would be goodby to Buick in China.
I think GM needs and wants to sell SAAB to somebody that can't "missuse" GM-technolgy against GM.

I was under the impression that the VM V6 diesel was canceled by the GM?

Though there seems to be some rumours that Holden will use that very same engine to launch the Commodore in the continental Europe. That would be a great combo for an affordable price!

That VM engine is the one that was supposed to be used in Cadillacs and SAABs. GM canned it because it has no money and since Cadillac is virtually non-existant in Europe, they had to recheck their priorities in terms of development money.

Well, like Thyl said, there's still good old Isuzu engine. With a newer turbine and injection, it could produce enough power to rival the other 6 cylinder competitors.
The only problems is, that according to wikipedia, GM holds the design rights for that engine.

Theater! Fritz is the consummate sales dude! I look at my 9-3 and see LOTS of GM parts. SAAB sells cars, GM sells parts, royalties, some ROI. I assume the same is true for the 9-5. Sell SAAB, they might sell cars and you may get some return. BK SAAB, you get nothing. "Oh, that 9-5 is sooo good, maybe I won't sell!" Come on, people. for GM, it's about MONEY!

Oops, i meant saab should NOT repeat the isuzu diesel story. Damn moile phone typing!

Via Automobile Magazine:

In a webcast this morning, GM president and CEO Fritz Henderson dispelled a rumor that GM was planning on keeping Saab due to the anticipated success of the 2010 9-5. Henderson said both the upcoming 9-5 and 9-4x are "superb" models and GM is open to supporting Saab's future owner by finishing the development of the two cars. However, Henderson does not anticipate Saab emerging from its reorganization with GM at the helm.