Could we really all be driving Swiss solar-cell cars in just a few years time? Revolutionary vehicles that would be built in Saab's factory in Trollhattan?
It sounds like fantasy, but Swedish news service Readtid.se published an article over the weekend, based on sources apparently familiar with Koenigsegg's intentions.
Those intentions, in summary, are the acquisition of Saab's manufactuing ability in order to produce a production version of the NLV Quant concept car that they showed at the Geneva Motor Show earlier this year.
The following is an edited and shortened Googletrans
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Swiss environmental behind Koenigsegg-business
Small sports car manufacturer Koenigsegg's purpose behind buying Saab Automobile is to get [access to] Saab's factory to build electric cars, with the Swiss company NLV Solar AG.
It is a committed source who tells us about the plans.
Why do you think Koenigsegg wants to buy Saab Automobile?
- No one has been viewing the links to Swiss NLV Solar AG and future cars, electric cars, where of course Koenigsegg designed "Quant-Car NLV who actually owns the right to," says the source.
- You need a car plant to produce car series, that is, especially with government guarantees.
- It is expensive to build the factory. Compare with electric car manufacturer Tesla needs of government loans in the U.S. to build its cars in California.
- So why not buy a factory cheap?
Koenigseggs main shareholders are the Norwegian Bård Eker. Founder and CEO is Christian von Koenigsegg.
The source stresses that none of them ever spend any of their own money.
- They are more economical than Kronblom and Kamprad together.
- The money comes from someone else with an interest in buying the car plant, not Saab's abysmal production.
- To look at the plants, ie plant and its value for a new type of production, "says the source.........
.......Saab had a production volume of 130,000 cars in 2006, and Koenigseggs goal under the business plan is that level is again to be attained in 2011, before rebounding to 150,000 cars per year.
Here are the Saab cars that will be produced under the business plan :
• Saab 9-3: Trollhättan
• Saab 9-4X (a new model): Mexico
• Saab 9-5: Trollhättan
However, the question is what it will be with the models of Trollhättan factory used to manufacture Quant.
Paul Åkerlund Metall is the union representative on the Saab, and believes that the Koenigsegg and the grouping around them has enough capital to deal with Saab.
- The existence of economic muscles in the picture, it's probably my opinion, he said in the News.
American venture capitalists or other financiers can be included in a grouping that supports Koenigsegg in Saab-buying as the News of the speech, and the financiers are likely to have a short-term interest in being with and invest in Saab.
- I believe that these investors think that venture capital investors, "said Christer Karlsson bilprofessorn in News.
- They intend to another business to come. It may be merging with another. It may be to sell Saab to something else.
- But I can not believe that the main option is to continue to operate bilverksamhet, and in any case not integrated with Koenigsegg, because there is no point to it......
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I'm really not sure about this.
The questions you've got to ask are:
- Is this solar technology really at a production-ready stage for use in an automotive application?
- Is the battery technology even available for this sort of automotive application?
I didn't keep much of an eye on the Quant or the reception it received at the Geneva show.
It was presented by a guy who's name I didn't catch (I'll call him Young Elvis) and the initial reaction paralelled my own thoughts: this is one of those futuristic cars that's more of a design study and a 10-years-time tech expo.
This story from Realtid seems to suggest they're serious about producing it in just a few years time.
This wouldn't be a bad thing for Saab, per se. It's just a little unexpected and the far-out nature of it all makes me wonder how realistic the possibility is.
Also Eker has stressed that they're in SAAB for the long-haul.
NLV's plan is to be in production in 3-4 years.
While NLV Solar's thin film technology is different from those currently in commercial use, [quotes from NLV Solar's website] "Production of the Pyradian solar cell will combine this established technology with innovative doping and laser-scribing techniques." [best I can do in explaining this is that NLV's technique increases total surface area of thin film solar receptors, like the difference between old-time photographic film and advances in computer chip etching techniques]
It doesn't seem to need a super-big or totally new battery (NOT lithium).
NLV: "FAES is an electrochemical energy storage system. The gravimetric energy density is over 170 Wh/kg, the volumetric energy density at least 600 Wh/l. A particular feature is the voltage per individual cell of 4 V; the cells are connected in series. The FAES technology allows high-voltage charging to full capacity in 15–20 minutes and gives the vehicle a range of 500 km. The additional power input from the invisible, thin-film photovoltaic coating that covers the body of the car further increases the range potential. The FAES has no memory effect."
"Preliminary specs [running prototypes in process]:
Power: 512 bhp
Torque: 715 nm
0–100 km/h: 5.2 seconds
Top speed: 275 km/h
Curb weight: 1780 kg
Wheelbase 3102 mm
Track – front: 1730 mm ; rear: 1729 mm
Wheels/tyres – front: 245/35 - 23”; rear: 285/30 - 23” - low-friction tyres by Michelin
Width: 2016 mm incl. rear-view mirrors; length: 4879 mm; height: 1335 mm
Rear-wheel drive ..."
Toyota is hyping their use of existing thin film solar on the sunroof to power an internal cooling fan in the 3rdGen Prius now on sale so your car doesn't heat up while parked in the sun.
The skeptic in me does wonder if the Quant will need a back-up power supply, like plug-in recharge.
And it will be targeted more for very sunny markets.
The NG 9-5 sounds like a great start. But what Saab needs the most right now is to leapfrog. This sounds like a hell of a jump to me.
If there was no sign of passion in this deal, I'd certainly be worried about Saabs becoming a line of Scandinavian Priuses, completely devoid of fun. But I think we've landed the best circumstances imaginable. A local underdog with a passion for innovation and responsible, albeit insane, performance. Give me this situation everyday and twice on Sundays!
hope the Trollhattan unions are open to flexibility because it would seem some fast-track tooling changes are to come.
the NLV thin film breakthrough may be a nanotech form of either a ceramic or a metal alloy.
but now I keep wondering how you keep the Quant clean. hope K-egg has a carwash testing ground :)
BTW, the 1st winner of the World Solar Challenge was...GM.
When however some future technology allows for the 10 fold increase in capacity that some are hoping for, the situation will change, and electric cars may become feasible and may even contribute to storing all the energy produced by wind or photovoltaics.
That's the sort of science we need to figure out if this vehicle is realistically feasible. And if that's accurate, then the answer would have to be "no".
I wish I understood engineering stuff.
I hope we'll see some breakthrough technology incorporated in SAAB cars in a year or two, putting the brand in the race of one of the few car companies that will be able to survive the environmental paradigm shift that hits the world right now.
One of my main concerns about SAAB has always been their bad press coverage (such as R Collin), but then there are always people that are envious about the obvious smart solutions others come up with.
Anyway, I think that the GM sale so far has been doing SAAB the most good and if we at SU can contribute to correct and enhance that press coverage we'll all contribute to a better SAAB future! I feel we have a bunch of real good writers and researchers here at SU and that really encourages me to participate too.
Thanks all. Keep the SAAB spirit moving!
And as long as those fossil fuel-based internal combustion engined vehicles coming out of Trollhattan will still be called Saabs, badged as Saabs, designed and engineered by Saab people with the longstanding spirit of innovation and ingenuity (and not following the crowd), then let Saab-Koenigsegg be what they will be.
Why not go for the money (which the new investor will have to do even more than GM obviously did) and build and market cars with solar cells and other environmentally correct power saving devices. Put in AWD and winter proof convertibles for in the cold areas. Design beauties. Make a buckload of money from it. That's what I would do if I had the cash. That's what Bard has been doing with his boats and projectors. People buy good feelings. That's what Bard & Co can contribute to SAAB. It will maybe hurt some old SAAB feelings (like "I like the smell of a two stroke" or "I miss the hatch") but those nostalgics won't survive the brand. If there is a SAAB future it will be a completely new one, but it will still be SAAB!
"There is a lot of rock 'n' roll in Eker's operations. Definitely not a place for boring bureaucrats who likes to plan every detail over the long run, says a source to the newspaper"
I guess Saab can finally forget about the bureaucratic decision methods from the GM time!
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http://e24.no/naeringsliv/article3122633.ece
Eker is furious at the media
Bård Eker are tired of the media around the Saab-purchase.
Entrepreneur and Koeningsegg owner Bård Eker is furious at the media in connection with a possible purchase of Saab, writes Fredrikstad Blad.
- I noted that some media spins on previous statements, but I will not say anything about the SAAB-issue now. Fredrikstad Blad and all other media will have to wait until the time is right, says Eker to the newspaper.
Last week, it was known that Koeningsegg, where Eker owns 49 percent, is in talks to buy Saab from GM.
According to several media, it is the Fredrikstad-man who is the brain behind the acquisition. So far all the parties have been shared little information.
This has not cooled down the interest around the acquisition and Eker. Journalists from both home and abroad have been looking to get Eker in speech since the acquisition plans were known.
According to newspaper sources, the Swedes can get a surprise with Eker behind the wheel.
- There is a lot of rock 'n' roll in Eker's operations. Definitely not a place for boring bureaucrats who likes to plan every detail over the long run, says a source to the newspaper.
http://www.saabsunited.com/2009/04/an-update-from-sweden-on-saabs-investors.html#comment-6242
:-)
I truly believe in Christian, Bård and the investors behind them.
On the day of the reconstruction announcement (Febraury 20th) JAJ entered the press conference at the Saab museum to the music of "release me"...
The thing with electric cars is that electric car buyers are almost as rare are Koenigsegg buyers. The electric cars are just as expensive as they are worthless outside a city and few people are prepared to pay this amount of money for a car that can't replace a conventional car. In Sweden Mitsubishi has released the price of their iMiEV, a Smart sized electric vehicle, and at about 360000 SEK it's about as expensive as a Saab 9-3 Aero XWD. Adding solar cells to the roof of an electric car is not going to make them cheaper, no, quite the opposite. Also, keep in mind that GM for instance doesn't expect to make any money from their electric vehicle Volt any time soon, and for Saab, I just can't see them spending a lot of money on car models that isn't going to give them a profit.
If Koenigsegg wanted to produce an electric vehicle there are also much cheaper options than to buy Saab. The cars could be produced in Finland just like the Fisker.
Eker is also rumored to sell off some of his assets to free up about 250 million SEK, money needed to finance the Saab deal.
As for the mentioned Cargine technology used to improve engine efficiency, they are pretty much on the prototype level so far. It will take years until we see such technology in production cars. It will also require much more sophisticated control systems for the engine, hardly an off the shelf product. But in a few years they may have something interresting.
The peak output of a solarcell is typically 100-200 watt per square meter, and a car roof isn't that many square meters. Obviously a few hundred watts isn't even close to what we need to power a car (expect an average of at least 10 kW), and this is at peak output of the solar cells. In addition to that, a solar cell may need about one to four years to produce the amount of energy needed to manufacture the cell, and given that the average lifetime of a car is much shorter than the 20-25 year lifetime of the solar cell the result would be pretty bad economy. It is basically smarter to install the solar cell on your roof at home and use it to charge a plug in vehicle.
For a battery, or any other kind of energy storage system, to offer a range of 500 km you need a storage of about 75 kWh. Even with 170 Wh/kg we are talking about a 440 kg battery. With current lithium ion battery technology, we are more likely talking about a 750 kg battery.
I am willing to go to great lengths so I can afford the first non-GM XWD Saab with biopower.
But going all-electrical at this point is madness.
Would be good for a car #2 though (for the wife), but then at a noticably lower price.
However:
- Government subsidies...
- Early to market
- Developing new technology (that you can license to others)
- Grabbing the attention of the press
If they can afford it, why not try? Saab has always been about R&D. This is no different.
Regards
Simon
I'm amazed by this comment."They are more economical than Kronblom and Kamprad together."
You must be the only Aussie that know Kronblom. :-)
Tesla cars aren't built in California, they are assembled in the Lotus factory, Norfolk, UK. With parts from around the world, parts of the body shell come from Norway, the motors from Taiwan and the batteries might be from California. Certainly the car isn't (currently) made in California.
Considering that a modern Diesel engine has an
efficiency of more than 40% ...
An electric/battery car has to get its energy from somewhere, so at best it just has a very long exhaust pipe ...
/MagnusE, and my degree is in EE
I wonder if they're owned by Expressen?
Mind you, the batteries are not total game changers. The car still weighs 400KG more than a 9-3, and has a shorter range.
would assume NLV & K-egg need control of a factory to insure the integrity of the coating application process. and protect the patents by keeping material and process proprietary.
I never underestimate transformational power of a coating material. Once upon a time, the Marathon Corporation developed a coating that enabled Wisconsin's cheese producers to insure refrigerated shelf life of processed cheese. Decades later, still held the patent. I actually had to physically restrain 'visitors' from 3M who tried to steal a sample from the hopper while on tour. That coating made a lot of people rich.
I have been following thin film photovoltaics because it makes so much sense to use building windows to generate electricity. NLV seems to have made a quantum leap in thin film material.
(grabs coat and runs for the door)
It is much better to spend the R&D money to develope a hybrid that might actually sell. Adding the two mode hybrid system to Saabs lineup that is currently in development (such as the new 9-5), a lithium ion battery pack and a small yet powerful turbo engine should offer a considerable fuel saving, and also the possebility to run the car shorter distances without the engine. Of course, even this is expected to come at price premium of around 10k euro, but that is still a reasonable amount of money for a reasonable fuel saving for the owner. Not to mention that the car can replace a conventional car without problem.
However, to maximize battery life you usually only use a portion of the batterys actual capacity. For instance, a lithium iron phosphate battery offers an energy density of around 130 Wh/kg. This is for the cells themselves and when we have included the battery package, electronics and cooling system we're probably down to 100 Wh/kg. In hybrid cars you usually use something like 50-60% of the total capacity of the battery, that is you use a state of charge between something like 30 and 80%. Then you're down at 50-60 Wh/kg for the battery, and then a 500 km range battery will weigh in at about 1200 kg.