You are browsing the archive for 2009 October.

Avatar of Swade

by Swade

EIB loan approved

October 21, 2009 in News

UPDATED – The EIB press release is below

Well, I was wrong. Apparently the announcement has been made.

From Swedish Radio (G-trans):

Saab’s loan application may be approved

Saab Automobile to borrow four billion kronor by the European Investment Bank, the Bank’s board decided today.

The loan will be used for research and development in environmental and safety.

For the money to be paid the EIB requires the Swedish government stands for guarantees.

Today’s announcement is not enough to save Saab in Trollhättan, says the company’s CIO Eric Geers.

First, the EU Commission approve the approach of government guarantee required for the loan. Since the government determines if there is a yes to the guarantees.

The Debt Office is not yet finished negotiating the terms.

Koenigsegg Group also needs to be done with the agreement with China Beijing Auto, which will become a member of the group and contribute funds that are missing.

Another step on the road, people…….and a few more remain.

——

I spoke to Saab reps earlier just to see what they were expecting and it’s fair to say that they were confident the loan would go through, they were unsure how much would be made public today (this was after my post on the subject), and they were definitely just seeing it as another box ticked.

Key staff were not bunkered down preparing special EIB press releases, they were out and about, some heading to Spain for the next leg of the European Saab 9-5 roadshow.

Low key may be the flavour of the day, but I’ll pass on my own personal congratulations to Saab on another milestone being reached.

——

New Saab – bring it on!!!!!!

UPDATE – Here’s the statement from the EIB’s website:

The European Investment Bank’s Board of Directors today approved loans to European-based car makers worth a total of EUR 600m.

One of the loans approved today amounts to EUR 400m for SAAB Automobile AB. The loan will be used for research and development activities for the improvement of fuel efficiency and safety including new tooling for the production of cleaner and safer cars, subject to the European Commission’s approval of the Swedish state guarantee.

EUR 200m have been approved today for Renault to support a new production facility near Tanger, Morocco, for the manufacturing of smaller cars, including the design, civil engineering, purchase of equipment and tooling of the new factory.

In total, since December 2008 the EIB has approved loans to the automotive sector (manufacturers and suppliers) worth EUR 7.56bn, whereof EUR 4.52bn under the EIB’s European Clean Transport Facility (ECTF). EUR 320m out of the EUR 400m approved for SAAB would be provided under the ECTF. The Facility, part of the EIB’s wider response under the European Economic Recovery Package, targets significant cuts in vehicles’ CO2 emissions through research, development and innovation, as well as the production of cleaner and more fuel-efficient cars and other transport and also through tangible fixed assets in related infrastructure and production plants. The remainder is intended to help SAAB improve the active and passive safety of its future vehicles.

After the approval of the operations the contracts will be negotiated and signed, followed by disbursement according to the progress of the projects. In 2009, EUR 3.6bn has already been disbursed to the automotive sector and it is forecast that this will reach around EUR 6.0bn by year-end. Further disbursements will follow in 2010.

Note for the editor:

The European Investment Bank was created by the Treaty of Rome in 1958 as the long-term lending bank of the European Union. The task of the Bank is to contribute towards the integration, balanced development and economic and social cohesion of the EU Member States. The EIB raises substantial volumes of funds on the capital markets which it lends on favourable terms to projects furthering EU policy objectives. The EIB continuously adapts its activity to developments in EU policies.

——

REMEMBER – This is just the first step in a multi-step process.

The EU Commission still has to approve the loan, based on the guarantees being required not conflicting with rules on inappropriate state support.

Then the Swedish government needs to actually finalise the guarantees with Saab, which it will take advice on from the Swedish Debt Office once the payment schedules, etc, are sorted.

This was a great step, but still just a first step.

——

UPDATE II:

Report in English from The Local:

European bank approves Saab loan request

Saab Automobile has received permission to borrow 4 billion kronor from the European Investment Bank, the bank’s board revealed on Wednesday.

Prior to Wednesday’s meeting, most indications were that the EIB board, which includes representatives from all 27 European Union members states, would approve Saab’s request.

The EIB leadership group had recommended to the board that the bank agree to lend the Swedish car company up to €400 million, or roughly 4.1 billion kronor ($590 million), having concluded that Saab’s application was sufficiently strong.

The loan is a critical lifeline for Saab, and was a key element for the planned takeover of the company by the Koenigsegg Group.

“It wasn’t totally unexpected. It was an incredibly important step for Saab’s future. Without the loan, it would have been a nonstarter,” Jöran Hägglund, a state secretary with Sweden’s industry ministry, told the TT news agency.

The loan will be used to fund research and development of technologies related to the environment and safety.

Before lending Saab the money, the EIB requires that the Swedish state guarantee the loan.

Nice to hear Jöran in a good mood :-)

Avatar of Swade

by Swade

Saab 9-3x color palette

October 21, 2009 in Saabology

My interest was piqued by Till’s viewing of a Saab 9-3x in Jet Black. I’d seen 9-3x’s in red and in white, but nothing other than that.
So off to the Saab.co.uk site (and a big hello to Jonathan Nash today) I went and made use of their Build Your Saab 9-3x function to check out the color palette:
Click to enlarge. I’m leaning towards Glacier Silver or Carbon Grey….

Carbon Grey….
CarbonGrey.jpg

Glacier Silver…
GlacierSilver.jpg

Jet Black
JetBlack.jpg

Laser Red…
LaserRed.jpg

Nocturne Blue…
NocturneBlue.jpg

Snow Silver…
SnowSilver.jpg

Titan Grey…
TitanGrey.jpg

Arctic White…
White.jpg
——
Yeah, I’ll have one of those.

Avatar of Swade

by Swade

Saab 9-3x: Take a look

October 21, 2009 in Saabology

I recently drove a Saab 9-3x during my few days in Trollhattan and I was more than happy to write a positive review about it here on Saabs United. I was really impressed with the total package, which Saab have executed really well.
Saab 9-3x
Like I say with every car, though, you’ve got to see it for yourself to really appreciate it.
That’s why I was really happy to get this email from the guy who’s known around here as ‘Till72′

I visited my dealer to get my winter tires and took a look at the 9-3x. I wasn’t too excited about that car because I had the 9-3SC for two years and thought I knew that car. But somehow I was struck by the 9-3x he had there. It was jetblack with some nice gadgets… Now I think I see why you were so positive about that car. Everything fits. And I didn’t even drive it… Too bad there is no XWD with the TTiD because then it would definitely be my next one.

Too bad, indeed.
But I think there’ll be enough people to take the offerings that Saab can make – IF they get to see it.
The Saab 9-3x has started hitting dealer showrooms in various markets, though obviously in low numbers as Saab’s production schedule has been pretty light for most of this year.
I hope you get to see one soon, or maybe even drive one. It really is a great vehicle.
——
By they way….
I’ve seen them in red and I’ve driven one in white – but Jet Black. My curiosity is piqued.

Avatar of Swade

by Swade

Saab gearing up for 9-3 Convertible and 9-5 production

October 21, 2009 in News

The IF Metall union guys in Trollhattan are a little mad at management right now, but I’ve got to say that the reason for their anger is music to my ears.
Saab will be halting production for a few weeks in November in order to do some installation work on tooling for the Saab 9-3 Convertible and the new Saab 9-5.
From TTELA via Googletrans:

During week 45 and 46, the first two weeks in November, the production Saab to a halt. [They will] begin the process of building the line to be able to produce 9-3 Convertible and the new 9-5.
Some staff will then have to go training and others will be busy with another job in the factory. But there remains a lot of staff who will be idle.

The union are upset because workers may have to take leave without pay during the downtime if they’re not involved with re-training or installation.
Whilst I’m sympathetic, the real news for me is the forward progress the company is making on getting the factory in shape for the future.
Saab’s production is coming home, where it belongs.

Avatar of Swade

by Swade

BAIC working on electric drive

October 21, 2009 in News

Everyone’s treating the BAIC deal as a one-way street, with BAIC picking up technology from Saab and Saab getting little back but the money to secure the K-Segg deal.
Maybe, just maybe they’re further ahead than we thought and maybe there’s going to be some co-development on stuff. Sooner than we think?

A top executive of Beijing Automotive Industry Holding Corp (BAIC) said on Tuesday that the automaker would complete the R&D of its first-ever pure electric sedan before the end of this month.
“We are currently developing a moderate hybrid for military use, a full hybrid SUV for civilians and a mild hybrid engineering vehicle,” said Wang Dazong, general manager of Beijing Auto, at an industry event in Beijing.
He emphasized that the company would probably complete R&D of a pure electric sedan before the end of October.

Hybrid and electric are undoubtedly going to be a big part of Saab’s future. Perhaps they’ll have someone to partner with that they’re related to.
I’ve got to admit, now that Saab’s independence engines are almost up and running and electric Saabs are a realistic blip on the horizon, I’m getting more interested in them. I’ve always been into cars for the raw driving experience, but now that something feels like a real possibility, I’m starting to get more interested.
I guess I owe Gripen an apology for my indifference in the past (there’s a test to see if he’s still checking in). Gripen, rest in the knowledge that you’re at least three years ahead of me in your thinking!

Avatar of Swade

by Swade

It’s Saab EIB loan day. Will anything happen?

October 21, 2009 in Editorial

Today’s the day we’ve been waiting for for a couple of months now. The board of the European Investment Bank will convene and on their agenda for today is Saab’s loan application.
A couple of big questions arise:

  • Will they make the answer public today?
  • Will it make a shred of difference?

My personal prediction is that the answer will be ‘no’ to both. I think it may take a couple of days to get the answer from the EIB, or for someone to make the statement public.
I hope I’m wrong on that first one, and even if I am I don’t think it’ll make a difference to the second one.
Regardless of when the answer comes, I’m confident that it’ll be positive news for Saab – and therefore it won’t make a shred of difference to what Saab’s doing right now.
Right now they’re working on getting production of the 9-3 Convertible and the new 9-5 set up in Trollhattan. Right now they’re promoting the new 9-5 on a tour around Europe and preparing to show it for the first time in the United States. Right now they’re working on all the details of separation from General Motors. Right now they’re working on import deals so as to continue selling Saabs in various countries. Right now they’re working on finalising the deal and the subsequent migration to ownership by the Koenigsegg Group.
They’ll keep working on all of that while they wait for the EU and the Swedish Debt Office to work out their stuff (which I believe will be favourable as well).
Getting the loan just means all of that will proceed as it is now. Later on, it’ll mean the addition of various project that will be funded by the EIB money and hopefully the acceleration of a new 9-3.
New Saab – come on down!!!!

Avatar of Swade

by Swade

Saab’s 0-100km/h times. A problem?

October 21, 2009 in Saabology

This is one of those old and interesting questions…..
The 0-100 km/h statistic (or 0-60 in the old school markets) is one of those numbers that many people use to measure a car. It’s also a number that means little in real life as there’s seldom a time when we need to match the published number. But it does give an instantly familiar and comparable measurement with which we can compare different cars and it’s one that many people look for first.
The following was sent in via email by “Me”, who’s being crunching a few numbers between a Saab 9-3 and the new VW Golf:

——
The new VW Golf R has been launched and although this might seem less important to a SAAB fan it is in a certain way quite interesting.
The last generation’s Golf R was named the Golf R32 and it used a 3.2 L naturally aspirated V6 engine. The new engine is a 4-banger with a turbo, it has more power than the old engine and similar torque along with much reduced fuel consumption.
Where have I heard a similar sentence ?? ;-)
I wanted to compare the Volkswagen Golf R2.0T 4Motion (270HP/350Nm) with the 9-3 Aero XWD MY’10 (240HP/350Nm).
Fuel Consumption:

  • VW – 8,5 l/100km
  • Saab – 8,2 l/100km

Acceleration 80 – 120 kph:

  • VW – 8 sec
  • Saab – 7,8 sec

Acceleration 0 – 100 kph

  • VW – 5,7 sec
  • Saab – 7,3 sec

Although both cars curb weight is a little more than 1.5 tons and the engines performance data is quite similar, the VW is 1,5 sec faster from 0-100kph?
I know you also won’t have an explanation for this, but maybe someone out there does – why are current SAABs so slow from 0-100? Even the ’99 viggen with its FWD and 225HP/ 343Nm was able to do the 0-100 kph in 6,8 sec.
The new Hirsch tuned Saab 9-3 2.0T XWD Performance version (270HP/390Nm) is also only able to do the 0-100kph in 6.4secs.
——
Swade again, here…….
I guess the relevant questions are:

  • Are Saabs too slow for many of you from 0-100?
  • Why is the 0-100 seemingly so far behind a competitive model?
  • Do people consider the 0-100 important, or place more emphasis on the 80-120?

Personally, I’m more of an acceleration-in-motion guy. The only thing that bothers me about 1st gear being quite anemic is that it makes for a slightly less smooth driving experience.
My days of drag racing from the lights are well behind me.

Avatar of Swade

by Swade

An update on Swedish Car Day X

October 21, 2009 in Saabology

the following was posted in comments by Pierre Belperron, one of the guys from Charles River Saab, organisers of Swedish Car Day X. Unfortunately the day brought with it some pretty poor weather, which led to some mixups as to whether the day was proceeding or not.
Pierre writes as follows:

Thumbnail image for SCD10_Saab.gifThanks again for your postings on Swedish Car Day. Yesterday was spent both recovering from the event and tending to my duties at the dealership from which I had been distracted for some time. I was all set to compose a piece for you and send some pictures, but I think the Boston Globe had it well covered.
In ten years, this was the first time we had truly awful weather. It can be cold or windy, and we’ve had some days of drizzle, but never steady rain. And we were lucky–ten miles south there were gale force winds, and ten miles west the rain was snow! We’d love to move the event earlier, but the Auto Museum has a tight calendar, so changing is difficult.
We did hit an organizational snafu. In conversations at 9pm the night before, some of the team wanted to cancel. Not the Charles River Saab contingent. We stated we’d be there no matter how diminished the event and attendance were going to be, and we were sure there would be a turnout and we had a commitment to those enthusiasts. I guess the web-master did not understand the final decision because he promptly posted on our website that the event was cancelled! I did not realize this until the event was over.
Still, we registered sixty cars between 8 and 11am. We then closed registration out of pity for my son, Marcel, who at the ripe age of 13 has done registration for several years for me, plus some of our employees who also assisted. After that, another fifteen or so cars pulled in and we let them in free. We had cars from every New England State, plus several from New York and Pennsylvania.
We moved much of the event inside the museum, including the presentations by Ralph Bockoven and Keith Hart. There were several former Saab USA employees in attendance–John Moss, Dave Schurk, Keith Hart and Peter Maitland. Felix Bosshard, who founded Charles River Saab (ne Gaston Andrey Associates) in 1957 and owned it until 1999, also attended.
Soggy as it was, and diminished in size, it was still a very lively group who wasn’t going to let a little rain get in the way of their fun. We even raised a bit of money for the museum. Thanks again!

Kudos once again to the people who made the effort to turn out in the bad conditions, and for the organisers for battling on amidst the adversity.
There is a gallery of cars from the day over at Boston.com

Avatar of Swade

by Swade

Could a retro Saab 9-1 work?

October 20, 2009 in Saabology

I received a link from WooDz about this car today:
Mitsuoka1.jpg
Mitsuoka2.jpg
So…..
What you’re looking at here is NOT a Mk II Jaguar, it’s called a Mitsuoka. It’s made as a city car by a company in Japan, using a Jag-inspired body on top of the bones of a Nissan Micra.
There are 4 seats, a top-line trim featuring faux-woodgrain and three engine options from 1.2 litres to 1.5 litres (90hp to 109hp).
When I first saw this, I wrote back to WooDz stating that I thought it quote unholy. If I were a Jag owner (I am a Jag appreciator but there’s only so much heartache I can bear) and someone on my street owned one of these, I think I’d be feeling ripped off a little.
But that’s just me and I know that I can be a bit snobby with such things.
WooDz is much more open and if I put my own snobbery aside, then I can allow myself to see the merit in his madness.
Saab have such a unique history of car design, it really would be cool if they could revive an older model in a modern way. Most of us, when we think of a Saab model revival, think straight away about the Saab 900. That would indeed be quite cool, but it’d be a bit big for the intended purpose in this instance.
WooDz is going back. Waaaaaay back.
His idea is that perhaps Saab could partner up with some people to build a small city car based on one of their own previous small car designs – the Saab 92. You can’t go back much further than that!
Custom Saab 92
I’ve deliberately chosen a Saab 92 image where the car’s been done up a little already as it might give you a better idea of a contemporary version of the car.
Saab would love to do a small car in the future, and Saab’s future is going to be all about partnerships. WooDz has picked up on the fact that Ford are going to be releasing a wider Ecoboost engine range in the future, including turbocharged engines as small as just 2 or 3 cylinders.
I think Ford are situated pretty well for turbo engineering right now, but who knows? Maybe Saab can partner up with them on the development of those engines.
A small, nimble Saab 9-1 based on the original design of the Saab 92 and carrying a two or three cylinder turbo (instead of a two or three cylinder 2-stroker like the old Saab 92 and 93) would make for a very interesting throwback city car.
It feels unholy when I think of a Jag design based on a Micra frame. But a Saab based on something decent with a good little turbo?
Colour me interested.

Avatar of Swade

by Swade

A Saab 9-3 we didn’t get to see

October 20, 2009 in Saabology

The following sketch isn’t official Saab at all, but I’m told it was submitted to Saab around 5 years ago as a proposal for the development of the 9-3. Obviously, as we’ve never seen it, the design wasn’t picked up in any way.
The designer is a guy named Victor and these were passed on by Jörgen, one of my partners in the Saabs United Historic Rally Team.
9-3proposal.jpg
These images came along with it, too. Looks like one of those fun lightweight track day cars that contorts your face with is power to weight ratio, but one from the future!
Victor1.jpg
Victor2.jpg

My thanks to Jörgen for passing them on.

Avatar of Swade

by Swade

CAR Magazine show impression of Saab 9-5 wagon

October 20, 2009 in Saabology

CAR Magazine have employed an artist to draw the Saab 9-5 wagon for them, presumably based on either someone seeing it in Trollhattan or just extrapolating from the sedan.
Click the link to enlarge a little. Click the link above to see it in full size.
CARmagsaab9-5estate.jpg
So whaddaya think?
It’s a pretty handsome machine. I think there may be more people waiting for the wagon rather than the sedan in many markets. I still don’t completely understand why they don’t release them together, though I’m sure they would if they could.
I should remind you at this point that this ain’t the first wagon impression out there. In fact, right here at SU we had what I can tell you was a very authoritative image.
2010Saab9-5wagonOfficialSU
As you can see, the two are pretty similar and I believe they largely show the car as it’ll appear next year. There’s some slight differences around the rear windows and the lower one seems to have more defined ‘shoulders’.
It should be a great release for Saab when it comes. Make sure you click through to the CAR Magazine article and check out their thoughts on it.
——
Thanks to Ronan for the link!

Avatar of Swade

by Swade

How are you?

October 20, 2009 in Editorial

It’s the eve of the EIB board meeting.
I think it’ll go well. I think the EIB board will approve the loan and I think the EU will also pass the loan. I think the main obstacle will be the Swedish Debt Office and if Saab can get past them the deal is home and hosed.
It’s been a long year leading up to this, hasn’t it? If you’ve been watching the whole thing intently like I have then it almost seems anti-climactic. We’ve been trying to anticipate everything that’s been going to happen but now it seems like there’s no anticipation anymore, no jokers in the deck, no higher levels of hope. There’s just what’s in front of us right now.
The basic plan is known, the way it might unfold unknown.
There’s been a lull in the news since Frankfurt as we wait for this to unfold and that pause has given the site a chance to breathe, to find it’s way again. I still don’t think it’s there, to be honest. I don’t really know what SU becomes after this deal gets finished.
I know I’ve been a bit testy with a few people in the last few weeks, and a few have been that way with me and others as well. My apologies if I’ve offended anyone. I think it’s mainly the tension of the situation and the let down of not having much to …. well….. not much to provide some good coverage of. For the best part of a year, we’ve all had a mission (breaking/telling the news) and now that that mission is pretty much out of our hands, there’s something akin to a loss of purpose.

Whilst I’m thinking about that mission, I just want to congratulate and thank every one of you for an incredible job. Along with just one or two mainstream sources, I think Saabs United really became amongst the top, most accurate and authoratative sites for news about the sale of Saab from General Motors.
We were timely, we were very accurate and relevant. We had some fun.
We had some incredibly passionate people working hard to track stories and I had some sources and access behind the scenes that would blow your mind if you knew the extent of it. Together, we really had it going on.
So thankyou to the trackers, the translators and, of course, to the Djup Strupes.

Somewhere inside, I’m quite excited about the possibilities for a new Saab. But all this ‘new Saab’ stuff took the focus away from this site’s raison d’être – being an enthused owner of a Saab right now.
I’m not sure how to bring that back, but I guess we’ll figure it out as we go. Will it ever be the same, though? I think maybe we need another mission.
I hope that all makes sense.
So…… how are you going?

Avatar of Swade

by Swade

Can any other car wear Saab’s Inca wheels?

October 20, 2009 in Saabology

The three-spoke Aero wheel will quite possibly go down as the quintessential Saab wheel of all time – and rightfully so.
But there’s few wheels that sum up their manufacturer and their era quite like Saab’s Inca wheels, as found on the Saab 99 Turbo and a few early Saab 900 Turbos.
Saab 99 Turbo TU2
In the 1970s, Saab were on the up, doing funky cars with funky interiors and there’s little in all autodom that says ‘funky’ like a set of Incas. They are nothing, if not unique (except awkward to clean and even more awkward to re-paint).
I saw an image on my Flickr feed today, which got me wondering….
Some wheels are so nice on their own that they could quite easily be transferred from one car to another and still look good, and suit the new vehicle they’re on.
I tend to think, however, that Incas are so 1970s Saab that they couldn’t make the transition to anything else and still look like they belong there.
This was the image, posted by Sven Carlsson:
VWGolfIncas.jpg
It’s a good choice, picking a car with a bit of a cult following, but I’m still unsure as to whether the Incas have successfully completed the cross-marque journey.
a) Could any other car wear them?
b) would any other car want to wear them (they can be an acquired taste, after all)

Avatar of Swade

by Swade

Swedish Car Day 2010 a wash

October 20, 2009 in Saabology

The 10th annual Swedish Car Day organised by Charles River Saab, in Boston, was held on the weekend but unfortunately, it was only the brave and the foolhardy who looked the inclement weather in the eye and said “Meh, I’ll go anyway”
Saabs-mud__1255979454_9895.jpg
Boston.com state that the day normally attracts 200+ cars but the poor weather kept the number down to around 60 this year, the majority of them from our favourite Swedish marque.
There’s a photo gallery from the event here. Kudos to those who did manage to brave the elements and fly the flag.
The organisers had two different promotional banners for this year’s event. It looks like they got it right with the Volvo banner.
SCD10_Saab.gif
SCD10_Volvo.gif
Here’s to a bigger and better double-whammy Swedish Car Day XI next year.
And guys, don’t feel too sad. At least you’re supposed to be having poorer weather this time of year. Here in Hobart, where it’s Spring, we also had a big car show cancelled on the weekend due to waterlogged grounds, thanks to the copious amounts of rain we’ve had recently.

Avatar of Swade

by Swade

BAIC guy does the dirty on Ford

October 20, 2009 in News

No point pretending this hasn’t happened….

Shanghai, October 19 (Gasgoo.com) A Chinese national employed by Beijing Automotive Industry Holding Corp (BAIC) has been accused of stealing trade secrets from Ford Motor, but BAIC said today that the man was in the U.S. on personal leave when he was arrested last Wednesday, Reuters reported.
BAIC issued a statement saying the employee, named by U.S. prosecutors as Xiangdong Yu, had worked in BAIC’s research division for 11 months before leaving on a personal trip to the United States in mid-October. The fifth-biggest Chinese automaker said it would continue to monitor the development of the incident.
BAIC has agreed a deal with supercar manufacturer Koenigsegg to help fund its purchase of General Motors’ Swedish unit Saab. In addition to its investment in Saab, BAIC made a failed bid for GM’s European brand Opel and has been linked with the sale of Ford’s Swedish unit, Volvo.
U.S. authorities Wednesday arrested Yu, a product engineer at Ford from 1997 to early 2007, on charges he attempted to steal Ford trade secrets, stole some documents and used them to try to get work with Chinese automotive companies.
Yu is accused of copying designs including Ford’s engine and transmission mounting subsystem, front and rear side door structure, steering wheel assembly and the instrument panel and console subsystem, among others, said the indictment.

Now, before the masses get all outraged, there’s a couple of perspectives to consider here…
1) You can accept BAIC’s statement that he was acting on his own during a personal holiday (or not)
2) You can say “hmph, Chinese guy stealing stuff from American company”
…..or on the other hand
3) You can say “hmph, guy learned how to get ahead whilst working for Ford for 10 years…..”
I suggest we just watch with interest.

58 visitors online now
46 guests, 12 members
Max visitors today: 82 at 02:17 pm CET
This month: 336 at 01-03-2012 03:25 pm CET
This year: 336 at 01-03-2012 03:25 pm CET
All time: 509 at 12-06-2011 09:07 pm CET