Some things never change.
I can tell you quite positively that GM are negotiating a sale of Saab, but it seems their plan B is to just take the 9-5, shove a different badge on it and sell it as something else.
The story is at DN.se and here’s a snippety Googletrans:
According to Dagens Industri’s sources, GM is planning to use the new Saab 9-5: an own model program, including a future Buick in the U.S.. GM is also in a letter to Saab’s sub-contractors have estimated the time of closure of Saab to five years.
There are sources in Saab Automobile in the Dagens Industri – DI – indicates that GM now see positive opportunities to closure of Saab. By making use of Saab’s technology, tools and production equipment for GM use the new 9-5: an – that would be launched in the spring – to a future Buick in the U.S..
In the GM is also talk of exploiting Saab technology for the production of a new premium car for Opel, “says DI’s sources. It would then be about the reopening of the closed trial with an Opel Senator in Europe.
Shakespeare couldn’t even document the full bastardry these beancounters are capable of.
Related posts:
That Opel blurb...
{ 165 comments }
BARF! I swear if I see a Buick 9-5 I will egg the HELL out of it, and key it until you can see its interior through holes in the sheetmetal rather than through its windows.
Håkan Danielsson from one of the unions says that the SAAB museum will NOT be closed whatever happens and that’s definite!
You can also read that BAIC will build 3 factories (in China).
guys!
here’s what the saabforum-oracle said today:
(i copy this from the Griffin Up-topic)
9kCDgriffin | December 28, 2009 10:23 AM | Reply
the Saabforum-oracle has spoken:
i quote (copy/translate/paste, so the translation may be a bit shaky, we all know how google translates):
removed at the request of The Oracle – SW
so:
fingers crossed & SAAB UP!
and if all goes well: NO SAAB 95NG AS OPEL SENATOR!(or worse).
May the RenCen topple over into the Detroit River and flushed out to the ocean, never to be seen again.
The only thing i can do now is to pray to god that everything will be ok with Saab! I don’t care what the media says!!
So Buick 9-5s will roll off the Trollhattan production line, or will the whole thing be packed up and shipped to the States?
If it’s the latter, then that’s a punch in the face and a knee to the crotch for our friends in Sweden. Totally outrageous. Swade’s last sentence in this article sums it all up.
Disgusting state of affairs. If it comes to pass it’s adding insult to injury.
I will never buy a GM car and will encourage my friends and family not to do so either – regardless of the outcome of this. They don’t deserve our money.
The only measure these people understand is money – the only weapon we really have here is withholding our cash when it comes to buying a car – iwontbuyfromgm.com is so well timed.
The DN article is basically a retelling of a story in Dagens Industri. It’s not present on DI.se, so presumably it will be in tomorrow’s print edition. Maybe that will contain some more details? In the meantime, here’s my translation of DN’s version:
—
“GM will use the 9-5 in a future Buick”
2009-12-27 23:21
According to sources to Dagens Industri, GM are planning to use the new Saab 9-5 in their own model program, among others in a future Buick in the USA. In a letter to Saab’s subcontractors, GM are also alleged to have estimated the time for a closing of Saab to five years.
It is sources within Saab Automobile that are stating to Dagens Industri – DI – that GM now see positive opportunities in a closing of Saab. By using Saab’s technology, tools and production equipment, GM can use the new 9-5 – which would have been launched this spring – for a future Buick in the USA.
Within GM, there is supposedly also talk about using the Saab tech for producing a new premium car for Opel, DI’s sources say. It would then be a restart of the cancelled attempt at an Opel Senator in Europe.
According to calculations, the value of the new Saab 9-5 should be approximately the same as what Chinese BAIC paid for the tech rights to the old 9-5, that is 1.4 billion kronor.
DI’s sources also feel that GM can get off with fairly small costs for closing Saab, if the American car giant lets the liquidation go on for long enough.
In a letter to Saab’s subcontractors, GM are said to have estimated the shutdown time to five years. If operations are kept running for a while, the costs for shedding the workers can be minimized.
According to these plans, the inventory will be liquidated and existing orders delivered. Engineers and production technicians building BAIC’s three Chinese “Saab” factories will bring revenue to GM for several years to come.
Håkan Danielsson, chairman of Akademikerna at Saab, says to DI that GM during a board meeting on Monday gave information about an outline of the shutdown procedure. Lists will now be drawn up of which operations should be stopped first and which should be continued.
“One thing is clear, and that is that the Saab museum will survive,” says Håkan Danielsson.
Ia Wadendal, DN
—
ROTTEN, Rotten, Rotten GM!!!
The Saab Museum must live on. It is an absolutely fabulous place, YAY!
Thanks for the news…. but who told you this? Are you suggested that GM will indeed sell Saab, according to your “source”?
I think I’m going to shed a tear or two at the end of this week – either out of happiness or ANGER!
What is it that you quoted? Where did that come from and who made the statement referenced in your post?
about the article in DN.se and the ‘risk’ of the 95NG being sold as Opel/Buick:
the Saabforum-oracle reacted with these comforting words:
‘rest assured: that’s NOT going to happen’
so…as we dutch say: gebakken lucht.
The SF-oracle commented on the rebadging plans, too:
“Don’t worry, not gonna happen”.
Ivo
This is not good.
Doesn’t make a lot of sense. How would a Buick re-badge of the 9-5 fit in with the LaCrosse? Also if Opel really wants a Senator, it can re-badge the LaCrosse anyway.
It all seems rather odd?
Reposting here from ‘Griffin Up’ thread. It’s the same story as that by 9kCDGriffin but perhaps a bit more comprehensible than the googletrans.
Latest from the oracle of the Dutch Saabforum:
quote starts
**edited at the request of The Oracle – SW**
Interesting…Spyker and Merbanco got into bed together? Fiat, after all? Or BMW? Can’t be the Chinese, surely the oracle wouldn’t consider that a good thing for Saab.
Ivo
I never believed GM had any intention of a real SALE of SAAB,they have demonstrated over the previous year that if any real offer was made it would be thwarted,and so it has. How pathetic that the US gov. has invested in such a corrupt organisation,bailed it out,and will watch as it destroys a wonderful company,business,workforce,city? and all for what? BEANCOUNTERS? Come on you lot,its not going to happen!
TonyC
Yep that is what he said, end of this story alright..
Thank you.
I can be very positive.
The DI article comments on the 9-5 as a future Buick makes absolutely no sense. They already have the long wheel-based global epsilon platform as the LaCrosse with some shared powertrains with the 9-5. And the short wheelbased global epsilon will be introduced soon as a rebadged Insignia in the Regal. Again, shared powertrains with GM Europe. Why would they want a third Buick model on the same platform and with the same powertrains?
It doesn’t make much sense. Where would a re-badged 9-5 fit in with the LaCrosse? Also if Opel wants a Senator, it can simply re-badge the LaCrosse anyway.
None of this seems to be very logical.
Ugh. GM disgust me.
I was watching their ads on TV, they haven’t changed one bit. Same bullshit narration, same “cash promotions” to help them move cars… “Now up to $9,000 off select GMC, Buick and Chevrolet models.”
GM will go under. A clueless dead beancounter walking.
This is the second or third time we hear that an “orderly wind down” of Saab will take several years.
What if?:
Gm has to show their new owners (American and Canadian governments) they follow their recovery plan and close Saab as a part of this plan.
On the other hand they get some time to start making 9-5 and 9-4 and earn some money of it. In two or three years time they might just prove their owners that they were on the way to close Saab but they had to change their plan as the circumstances changed. The fact that GM hasn’t stopped the presentations of NG 9-5 even after they declared they couldn’t finish the deal with Spyker lets me think, they want this car to be produced.
The “curently being closed” factory in Trollhattan can in fact manufacture cars while being under liquidation.
In a couple of years there will not be Obama as a US president and most of the people who are in power in US now will be probably replaced and then GM might announce a change in their plans.
Unfortunately they will use the same shity plastic and pseudo leather in Saabs cars as they are using now and the new 9-3 will be again based on some old Vectra.
The source is someone active on the Saabforum in the Netherlands. Works for Saab and has a source placed in or near the Saab top who sometimes provides inside information but, naturally, cannot afford to be identified, which dictates a certain vagueness. But, so far, everything the ‘oracle’ has posted on the SF proved correct so I think this info is plausible as well.
Ivo
The Opel Insignia already rebadged as a Buick Regal, so WTF are they going to do by producing a Buick Park Avenue in Trollhattan? That’s a slap-in-the-face for Saab employees and enthuisasts. Its also shown how those GM beancounters want to take advantage of 9-5′s engineering just by close down Saab. edited ***please keep it clean – SW***
really hard stuff.
My only wish is that there is a decision witch is positivly for SAAB . (ok not to close or wind up is really positive) But we need people like VM or CJ who understand what the SAAB spirit is, to make money.
Of course we need the new 9-5 too
@ Quijote & Clint Harris:
a member of saabforum.nl appears to have contacts in or close to the ‘arena’ where GM and the new owners are ‘fighting their fight’. he cannot tell too much, but rest assured: as far as his information is concerned, he can be trusted.
**edited at the request of The Oracle – SW**
so, about my posting: what i posted was written at Saabforum.nl. i did some copying/translating and posted it in the topic on Griffin Up, not knowing that there was a new topic. so i copied my post from there to here
cleared up a bit?
SAAB up!
I bet you this is the Merbanco offer. Cowboy Up CJ!!!
@ 9kCDgriffin (jungleman?): we are duplicating each other now. How about I’ll leave the field to you?
Ivo
If THIS doesn’t get Swedish Parliament to protest GM’s actions to the US government, nothing will. If the new 9-5 is such a wonderful car that GM plans to put it into production, then clearly Saab is a viable brand. Isn’t there something in GM’s purchase agreement that Saab production would be kept in Sweden that can prevent such a rape of Saab?
If an agreement has been reached expect GM to announce as soon as possible. Yea!
I hope this goes well for all of us. I love my two Saabs and have been looking forward to being a life-long Saab owner.
I am not religious but I am praying Saab’s sale gets worked out.
The events of the past month or so have been a sick display of American capitalism at its worst.
Griffin-up!
Clint
Dallas, TX
i think if an agreement has been reached, it will be mentioned in a press conference.
BTW: it is NOT me, who has the contacts near ‘the Arena’. so I cannot tell…
Thanks for the follow up – however a “surprising” result to me would in fact me a shut down of Saab, so I’m hoping its the “Saab and Trollhattan and will live happily ever after” kind of surprise!
That’s not what the oracle says. **edited at the request of The Oracle – SW** Which, BTW, is exactly the same Spyker/VM said a few days ago in their ’11 points’ press release. So there are two bids now that totally satisfy the GM board? Such luxury….
Ivo
hope that the saaboracle get right
whatever SAAB spirit must go on
to GM: an old dog can`t learn new tricks
rebadging the new 9-5 makes no sense
The new LaCrosse and NG9-5 are nearly the same dimension wise (and share the same chassis, and one model even has XWD). The only thing that differentiates them is that the 9-5 has ~4 more cubic feet of trunk space than the Buick. This seems like an incredibly stupid thing for GM to do.
It makes no sense to me why Opel would want a Senator. Why can’t they just take a LaCrosse and rebadge the thing? Exporting a rebadged LaCrosse from the U.S. would also win brownie points with the government and be financially responsible, as GM would be taking advantage of a weak dollar/strong Euro equation.
Likewise, exporting the 9-5 back to the U.S. as some sort of “Buick Park Avenue” (let’s not get into the design atrocity that would happen) makes no financial sense, as GM would make less money than if they had just produced the car on U.S. soil due to exchange rates. So, unless GM is planning on packing up all the tooling and shipping it back to the U.S., this idea ain’t gonna fly.
If they do either option, GM is simply reinforcing their own stupidity and telling the public that it’s business as usual, only this time they are playing with taxpayer dollars.
By the way, thank the oracle for us.
fingers crossed & SAAB UP!
Hey guys, first time caller here, yet have been watching this site closely since the K’Segg days. Maybe some news on the horizon? I’m state-side, and thought they were already sharing the 9-5NG as the Buick LaCrosse? Today I read that the 9-3 shares with the Regal? Is it being told here that GM will not provide platforms for Saab after 5 years? If so, isn’t that what we want? After watching the Griffin Up! video, it goes back to showing Saab’s soul. It may be quite costly, but get our own product to market. Just imagine that video running during the Super Bowl 1/2 time show.
Whoa. What a schizophrenic thread, horror mixed with optimism in alternating posts.
On the horror note: if they rebadge the new 9.5 as a (expletive deleted) Buick, it will take all the will-power I have in my soul to resist the ever classic key-all-the-way-through-the-clearcoat, treatment.
Being a Buick it’ll probably belong to some poor 88-year-old dude who fought in the war. A Saab 9.5 with a Buick badge would be a whole lot of heart attacks ready to happen. Good thing we just got health care reform.
Anyway, I don’t know about you guys but I’m ready for all this BS to be over with. Who’s with me?
A Saab is only a Saab when its produce in Trollhattan instead of anywhere else. Just look at how terribly made those Alabama-made ML-Class, GL-Class & R-Class to South Carolina’s X5. An NG9-5 produces in Trollhattan by all-new Saab management only makes it a “real Saab”, even if its lifespin will be short and based on GM underpinnings.
Hey, no suprises here! It is GM we are talking about here….hello! ED doesn’t strike me as a sentimental kind of guy.He appears to be a hardnosed business realist who has been tasked by the Obama administration to tidy up GM’s affairs in the shortest possible period AND to commence/payback the $50B loan from the Government – preferrably before the next US presidential election.I am unconvinced that he is in any way sentimental about Saab, is unlikely to be swayed by the sentiment contained in these pages, the Facebook site and numerous other blogs and pro-Saab sites.He will take a very pragmatic business approach with the realisation that Saab business is less than a rounding error on his books. Don’t get me wrong, I have owned, lived and breathed Saab for over 20 years and Do NOT want to see their demise. I’m just making an attempt at looking at this from GM’s perspective.
GO SAAB!!!!
When Fritz Henderson was blathering on about the new Saab 9-5 being too good to sell Saab to others, I just assumed he was trying to jack up the sales price for the company. I’m sure the new 9-5 is great, but let’s be serious, it will be out-dated in 5 years and then will need a makeover to stay current. Saab’s value does NOT reside in one flagship auto of limited lifespan, it is the history/heritage upon which future innovation will be built.
As for my family, our plan was to by-pass the cost of the 9-5 in order to get a 9-4x family transporter, and then replace my current 9-3 with either its next generation update or a new 9-1 for my work commuter.
Please let the oracle be right, and keep posting a link to the “I won’t buy another car from GM if they kill Saab” everywhere we can on the web. Like here, for example: http://www.iwontbuyfromgm.wordpress.com
Exactly though. Exporting a Buick Park Avenue from Trollhattan doesn’t make financial sense, just looked at how GM priced with the Saturn Astra and Pontiac G8 when exported from Germany’s Opel and Australia’s Holden. But given GM’s stupidty, they probably won’t learn their hard lessons even after so-called Obama pre-packaged bankruptcy. Perhaps some just never learned from their mistakes.
Thank you, I have been wanting to know how much trunk space the 9-5 has.
The Buick LaCrosse and the NG9-5 are the same dimensions. The Buick also will come with XWD. Rebadging has already occurred.
I have said all along that we will be surprised at the final outcome. My gut still says plesantly surprised, but the waiting is a real killer!
Where can I get an FUGM sticker for my SAAB?
If I do ever see a rebadged NG 9-5 I´ll paint a griffin on that hood, no matter how high the fine is.
And my signature will be Ed W.
Swade, the comment-form does not seem to work (404-error): http://iwontbuyfromgm.wordpress.com/2009/12/24/will-you-support-gm-if-they-dont-support-saab/#commentform
and there it is. finally in the open. the reason gm will not sell saab.
Great idea, Emmanuel. Googled “fugm” and turned up the stickers available at zazzle.com. The next “must have” Saab car accessory. Unless, of course, GM does right by Saab and settles safely into the hands of a motivated and invested new owner.
FUGM….
The Buick LaCrosse is currently made at
Rüsselsheim, so it is already built in Europe and ready to re-badge as a Senator if required. The same way the Opel Insignia is re-badged as a Buick Regal.
Does Opel/Vauxhall really need a Senator?
I want an FUGM sticker!
Well – I’ve suspected as much…but really I think GM is silly to think they will sell a ton of 9-5′s. As a niche car – I think it is a killer – but as a mainstream car, no way…I just don’t see it selling a ton. Maybe GM sucks so bad these days that 40K is a big number for them.
Something like this would explain why GM is not selling Saab. It makes me sick…a buick 9-5. Ugh.
Guys the other company in the picture is FIAT they will buy Saab sell it along with Alfa-Romeo in the same dealerships. Wait and see.
I sit here at my computer here shake-headedly mumbling profanity at GM.
HOWEVER…… as long as Saab (the new split-from-gm-after-the-sale Saab) have secret blueprints for a new 900/9-3 model entirely disconnected from GM, I will still be a happy man.
As long as Saab survives I have faith that they will design new great cars…. even if the 9-5 is lost to the enemy.
Griffin Up!
FUGM Up!
Mike.
Rob, just guessing, or….?
Does Opel/Vauxhall really need a Senator?
Not Opel but GME after the Cadillac failure.
GM really needs an European (up-market)-Brand to compete with Audi/Merc/Beemer.
The problem is, GM doesn´t know how European up-market goes.
Wouldn’t European up-market have meant Saab?
If GME really wanted to develop a true premium division for Europe, they should have just invested in Saab instead of trying to roll out Cadillac.
The Europeans are not going to go for the American style of luxury.
You have just dared mention my dream come true. Jeez, I so hope that you are right, Rob. Fiat/Alfa Romeo/Saab… Ahhh… Now that would make one sexy, yet practical, automobile showroom.
FUGM http://www.zazzle.ca/fugm+gifts
Guess the ads on this site are localized, so we do not all view the same ones, but I keep getting a bitter laugh from the ironic humor of seeing the Cadillac/Chevrolet ads here in NC, USA.
The NG9-5 perhaps has quite a limited life anyway (guessing 5 years tops?, especially if GM hit an independent Saab with big royalties. However Saab still needs this car, at least until it can get a new 9-3 up and running. It could be difficult for Saab to make any real money on cars, until legacy GM models are gone. That’s all the models at the moment.
Making money on the 9-4x looks incredibly difficult at this stage.
Quick question here. I have an 07 9-5. There seems to be a lot of vibration in the engine when I have the car in drive idling. It also vibrates a lot when I go from reverse to drive. The dealership keeps saying they are fixing it but it keeps doing it. When the car accelerates moderately it kind of sounds rough, almost like a diesel. Any suggestions?
GM, if you launch the new 9-5 as SAAB, I will buy one next year.
If you dare to shut down SAAB, and sell the new 9-5 as Buick, I will never ever buy from you again for the rest of my life! I will tell people around me to boycott GM as well, for what you have done to the different brands (ie. Oldsmobile, Hummer, Pontiac, Saturn).
Look at Ford, they developed their brands better.
They managed to sell their brands instead of shutting them down!
GM are really managed by a bunch of idiots! No wonder a cooperation like this failed, and I am sure if they they make a massive change, they are going to fail in the near future.
FUGM – Mark of Incompetence
Troy, sounds strange, post the question at this forum Saab Turbo Club of Sweden, maybe someone else who has the same issue can help out: http://forum.saabturboclub.com/viewforum.php?f=27
Thanks.
May Satan infest the crotches of GM directors if they attempt such a move. This is sacrilege!!
yeah, what he said..
( feeling a little bah-humbug Zippy?)
yeah, what he said..
( feeling a little bah-humbug Zippy?)
I don´t know if this is old stuff but SAAB is vanished from GM.com…..does this mean anything????
A few posts back I made the comment that I thought GM might decide to use Saab as a basis for Buick.
Hate to say “I told you so” but…
From a detatched standpoint, it makes sense; Buick has always been the “Cadilac without the pompous attitute” (well, maybe in my parents day. They always bought Buicks), and they sell exceptionally well in China.
I don’t want this to happen, but see it coming. I adore my Saab, and intended to buy them for the rest of my driving days. Rats.
The stickers/T-shirts that someone hinted about but didn’t provide a link for:
http://www.zazzle.com/sabdesign
(well, GM really asked for it, but we can only hope that they don’t make the sales for those stickers and T-shirts skyrocket next week…)
I know, if GM do this everyone buy one and pries off the Buick badges and stick a SAAB badge on it. Along with the FUGM sticker.
The Cadillac BLS is a rebadged 9-3, made in Trollhättan.
Who made a great anti-GM-fuzz about that?
OK, we didn’t like it but we didn’t scream that much.
Happily “only a very few” bought that car, but GM as a global player is just doing what they think is right. Re-use as much as possible, save money.
Unfortunately they did/do not think: let’s MAKE money, let’s build a brand for real. Sorry for them but they just can’t.
Let somebody who knows how to do that do that with SAAB, quickly!
I am really looking forward to this end of this rollercoaster, and I like surprises!
don’t think saab and fiat is a good deal.
sure alfa is beatiful car and after saab maybe my second choice but thats it.
fiat seems to take the same way gm did. marchionne thinks that mass production/ platform sharing is the only way to be competitive. correct me if my memmories are incorrect, but a few weeks ago swade had an article online about marchionne thinking that fiat should build chryslers on lancia platforms and alfas too.
i think the best would be that saab and fiat cooperate as good as in the 80s when developing the 9000. fiat could also be saabs dieselengine supplier.
But Opel doesn’t have the cachet and brand image to compete with Audi/BMW/Mercedes, so Senator will failed like 607 and 169.
SAAB has not been on the GM site for over a week now here in the US.
This seems to be what GM would do IF they do not sell SAAB. However with two confirmed bidders and one or two mystery bidders, I am beginning to feel that the sale will go through.
I really do think that the SAAB supporters are making a difference with e-mails, iwontbuyfromgm.com, and other tactics to shed light on GM’s dastardly acts. I am grateful for Victor Muller doing a great job of PR for SAAB during our darkest hour!
We have to finish strong! Go Hard(!) until we know a sale is done.
Don’t EVER trust GM until we are out of their clutches.
Alfa makes a perfect companion to Saab in showroom, especially with their customer base and taste are quite similar.
I used to be a strong supporter for a Fiat buyout of Saab, but I think the time for such an action is passed. Fiat would only use Saab as a way to re-launch Alfa in the US through Saab dealers. Saab would have to compete with Fiat, Alfa and Lancia as well as Chrysler and Dodge for scraps. It would be little better off than it is now. It would still be a Minnow even if the pond is slightly smaller.
That would be really sweet with SAAB totally divested of GM leading another kind of life with Fiat and the Alfa for buddies, not over extended. Its alright to dream. We never know.
I know some talked about it here, but how about that big ad in major newspapers, revealing all the dark stuff of GM..? I’m sure Swade can write an excellent piece, and we can all help cover the costs…
I wouldn’t mind Saab teaming up again with the Italians, eventually making a successor to the wonderful Saab 9000 maybe…
a non-GM successor that is….
Anyone in the US happen to recall what GM did to Opel back in the mid ’70s? Had a nifty little German imported Manta Rallye they turned into Opel by Isizu. It went from being a great little bargain-Bimmer to a piece of cr-p. A friend of ours actually took one of those horrors “out back” and shot it. Put the bullet holes in the rear pillar. His dad owned a GM dealership.
SO yes, this could be SAAB’s future, although I can’t see the average Buick customer wanting anything other than a floaty-boaty barge.
I don’t know why everyone is so surprised by the fact that saab has been remved from the gm website. The Saab logo has not been displayed in many gm corporate commercials while hummer and the others were still in the commercials. I recall visiting a gm website a few months back and noticed that again that the Saab logo was not there. To me and i’m sure others, this is not new.
Regarding the rebadge of the 9-5, we should fully expect a thoughtless and bone headed move from gm. Gm is all about saving money and if that means putting the 9-5 in production for another brand while furthering damaging that brand’s image for a few extra dollars, these suits and ties will definately do it. From all this we can clearly see that gm cannot and will never know how to build a consistent image for their brands. Cadillac for such a storied past and supposed rwd renaissance will be getting a fwd flagship and already ditched a rwd for fwd in other cars. I’m sure the main euro automakers with flagships in the us will be really scared, not.With gm at the helm Cadillac will be on the way out also if it is also ran like this. Though gm can make pretty good cars they will always limit themselves by trying to save that extra dollar.
Rant off
Now where does all this FIAT talk come from?
From one commenter (Rob-who won’t reply now).
And then we have some deleted quotes from the Dutch SAAB forum “The oracle” – which when I read said nothing directly of FIAT. Just a surprise if all goes well. In that case I can think of earlier mentioned Hyundai/Kia as well.
So either are we just dreaming or we have some Djup Strupery with high impact.
Swade, cast some light on this!
A little off topic but what the heck. Swade I remember a few months ago, or so, you had posted something about SAABUSA’s dumbed-down SAAB site. Well, I went to build my own SAAB 9-3 combi on the website today. They are designating the 9-3s as ‘sedan’ and ‘STATION WAGON’. I almost barfed…
Wasn’t Maud keen on FIAT getting hold of SAAB. Maybe if FIAT did say they wanted SAAB the Swedish government may actually support SAAB?
LET SAAB BUILD THE 9-5!!
I’m certain we’ll get a surprise at the end of this, but it won’t be Fiat. I’m pretty sure that would be a mixed blessing anyway. Didn’t we cover this Fiat thing in SU six months ago?
Troy,
Disclaimer: I’m not a Saab mechanic, just a Saab owner, but could it be your engine mounts are broken, or the coupler in your automatic transmission is going? I’ve had both things go bad in my (GM of course) Saab 9-3 before it had 100,000 miles on it. Fortunately engine mounts aren’t that expensive, and I found a place in the US to sell me a replacement Saab transmission with a lifetime warranty.
Paul
May be too late for that – but if each one of us donate $100 to a Paypal account, I’m sure we’d be able to come up with $20,000 pretty quickly.
Nice add in USA Today, or Detroit Free Press
Let’s do it !
4dr Car
Convertible
Station Wagon
Yep, your right!
I am going to throw up after reading this. If that happens I will literally find a way to meet the CEO of GM and bitch slap him. Being arrested for assault would be totally worth it.
A Buick “9-5″. Kill it with fire!
If Saab get shuttered, I’d rather have the 9-5 go with it then get badge-slapped. No other GM brand deserved a car as good as the 9-5.
Pardon my language, but these guy are serious ****-heads.
Not only will they toy with SAAB’s loyal backing, but they are willing to shove it in our faces by ripping the SAAB spirit to bits and placing it in various parts of their current P.O.S. lineup.
I spit at your feet, you punk asses of the automotive industry.
An Opel Senator??
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2647/4195290396_c95dd14589_o.jpg
Ahhhm that makes me wanna puke…
One other thing, I recalled earlier this year that GM was almost going to release a new Buick small crossover. A teaser pic was shown and their result? A rebadged Saturn Vue, complete with Buick shield grille, plasti-chrome bits, and beige paintwork.
The media called them out for it and GM backtracked and killed it off.
Thanks, I will run that by the dealer this week. It really sounds like that to me. It is like the motor is loose.
a buick?! if they want to rebadge anything as a buick,make it a chevy.the turbo goodness of a saab might scare the bluehairs right out of their depends.(brand of adult diaper)
Okay wait wait wait…
What is this editing out?! I gotta know what was said!
im speechless …i cant figure that out! we all know that a buick lacrosse is a 9.5 why would they do that!!.awwwww that company is starting to get on my nerves..take five years to close saab? something fishy..remind me in the 60 not far from me GM build a plan and hired most of the town and around ..they cry evry 3 years for subvention from the provincial gov they always answer with our tax money..one day not so long ago they said no!! guess what?? they close the place within few months,and moved back to the states, they actually doing almost the same in sweden
Me too!!! I am confused and clueless.
I was thinking that maybe GM is thinking about the STS replacement. They really don’t have anything in that range. The CTS is small and the DTS is big. The 9-5 would fit in the midrange size for Cadillac.
I hope not but just thinking? What is up with the Fiat talk? Anyone talked to CJ lately? If the money and EIB loans are really there, than what in the world is taking GM so long? The sale that is. It is seriously frustrating. Like the old saying ” @#$% or get off the pot already! “
I’m now sitting over my breakfast and I can only come to 1 conclusion if it’s true: Generic Moneyshovers, you stink!
Saab Up!
troy that would not work as cadillac has a replacement coming for the both the sts and dts, called the xts. it is supposedly also built on the epsilon 2 platform.
two sheds, I’ve wanted to ask and just have to: is your real name Arthur?
If it comes to this that the NG9-5 gets sold under different badge, I am definitelly going to buy one second hand some day, put Saab badges on it and put FUGM stickers all over it…
ugh again. General Morons.
What did the ORACLE say!!?? I am pulling my hair out!
I just knew sending e-mails to GM and Whitacre would be a waste of time. If they had actually listened to customers and car owners, they wouldn’t be in the position they’re in now. And neither would Saab.
Neither will GM most likely respond to online petitions either (iwontbuyfromgm.com).
Who wants to bet Whitacre dumped all those e-mails from his inbox without reading a single one?
The only way GM would be forced to remove its head from its butt is through media pressure.
Don’t forget to mention not only how many jobs they’re in danger of destroying, but also how much US tax money they’re in danger of using to do it. Especially as opposed to gaining income from a completed sales process.
BBC:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/newswatch/ukfs/hi/newsid_3950000/newsid_3959100/3959111.stm
CNN:
http://www.cnn.com/feedback/tips/newstips.html or
http://www.cnn.com/feedback/forms/form11b.html?1
ABC News:
http://abcnews.go.com/Site/page?id=3052660
NBC News:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10285339/
CBS News:
http://www.cbsnews.com/htdocs/feedback/fb_news_form.shtml?tag=ftr
MSNBC:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10285339/
The New York Times:
http://www.nytimes.com/ref/membercenter/help/infoservdirectory.html
The Sun:
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/article296174.ece
The Daily Mail:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/article-299115/Contact-Daily-Mail-Mail-Sunday.html
USA Today:
http://www.usatoday.com/marketing/feedback.htm
Jay Leno:
http://www.thejaylenoshow.com/contact/
And for good measure:
The White House/Car Czar (It would also be best to contact them through both phone and fax)
http://www.whitehouse.gov/contact
Don’t let up.
I too wanna know what The Oracle said if you want you can email it to poohyvr@shaw.ca
Thanks
I truly believe that this is what is going to happen. But to add even more insult to injury the 9-5 “Buick” won’t be made in Trollhattan, it’ll be made by Opel in Germany, and shipped to the U.S. badged as a Buick (much like the Opel “Saturns”).
Remember the only thing that Fritz coveted from Saab was the 9-5?
The 9-4X will also be badged as a Buick.
I was driving behind an old Buick Reatta (http://www.murrayco.com/Car_Collection/reatta_3.jpg) tonight and thought to myself, “that red taillight across the entire rear of the car is reminiscent of the NG9-5″. That was BEFORE I read this post!
What is going on here? Have you all forgotten that less than one year ago, that was actually the plan? To build the next 9-5 in Rüsselsheim, along with the Insignia? They actually had to ship the tooling from Rüsselsheim to Trollhättan when the divorce became imminent. To me, it is logical to revert that decision if Saab is wound down.
). I am sure that GM could sell more of those as Opels than as Saabs.
The Opel workforce is capable of delivering the required quality, and maybe someone at GM has finally realized that Opel needs a premium car to show potential Opel buyers the company’s technological skills (whereever they come from
The new 9-5 is one important asset of Saab and GM wants to see revenue from it, regardless whether by licence fees, parts supply, being built in Rüsselsheim, or being sold as a blueprint to e.g. Spyker.
I think at least now every people in Sweden should wake up, what GM is really doing to this swedish brand. It is not right, it is not fare, it is a crime!
Unless GM were to replace the Lacrosse with the 9-5 and simply badge it as a “Lacrosse”, sort of how Ford had the Five Hundred replace the Taurus, only to rebadge the FiveHundred as a “Taurus” a few years later (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Five_Hundred).
The LaCrosse is still new, so I hardly think it would be replaced by a re-badged 9-5 that quickly.
I distrust GM more than most people, but I don’t think this is how things will pan out.
Hmm….Rebadging sucks
Two-strok´s up
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_lXG2q4xGw
OK Thyl, your explanation makes some sense unlike the somewhat terse article. I could not fit the pieces together as the article seems to suggest a rebadging as both Opel and Buick, while keeping the lights in the Saab factory on for about five more years…
The 9-5 tools can only be in one place at a time, right?
So, for this plan to make sense, they will move the tooling back to Rüsselsheim while continuing to complete orders for the 9-3 in Trollhättan? That suggests this plan won’t bother with producing any new 9-5 at all?
I don’t believe things will go this way but, imagine if GM decided to sell Saab, but minus the NG9-5. The 9-3SS uses the now outdated Epsilon (1) platform, so no IP issues on that one. And other Saab tech can be licensed to Saab. This would make it very difficult to start up a new Saab, but perhaps not impossible?
opel has no need for a premium car. there aren no customers that would by this.
GM also ruined the brand of opel in the last 10 years.
so in our media sources the most importent car for opel would be a car to compete for example with the fiat 500.
so it makes no sense to take the 9-5
OPEL has a really bad image ,so they couldn`t come into the premium segment and sell cars to drivers who owned bmw´s or audis.
SAAB hast this possibility – the brand is damaged but still alive
Swade; So your Djup Strupe/SAABOracle have told you to remove the information posted and quoted earlier?
I saw the original post and the information was a bit speculative if you just look and the content. But when you removed the comments on request by your sources it makes the post more believable.
BUT,
I know that this is your blog (i.e. you make up the rules) and that you want to protect and help your sources of information. But is it not contraproductive to start editing information that someone else think is too hot to publish? The information is already out there; why not make it big news or are you afraid that it will affect the negotiations in a negative way? I’m not all positive with your editing…
Don’t pull your hair out just yet. He was quoted a bit too literally here, hence the edits. He basically said that a breakthrough of some kind could be expected this week and that the uproar of fans had been noticed. So we should all remain positive and keep on making noise.
I don’t believe in this story, or better to say, I believe that GM’s people responsible for SAAB winding down plans are thinking of everything they could use from existing SAAB, and the new 9-5 is one of them, but I don’t believe this will happen. They have just made Buick LaCrosse, why would they make yet another Insignia clone.
I don’t know why are people worried about this. GM are looking on how to save as much money as they can from winding down of SAAB and at the same time they have negotiations with Spyker and other interested parts. Evey company with at least one gram of brain would do the same.
I don’t believe in this story, or better to say, I believe that GM’s people responsible for SAAB winding down plans are thinking of everything they could use from existing SAAB, and the new 9-5 is one of them, but I don’t believe this will happen. They have just made Buick LaCrosse, why would they make yet another Insignia clone.
I don’t know why are people worried about this. GM are looking on how to save as much money as they can from winding down of SAAB and at the same time they have negotiations with Spyker and other interested parts. Evey company with at least one gram of brain would do the same.
JÅJ have parked is brand spanking new SAAB 9-5 outside his home in Stockholm!
http://automotorsport.se/news/19989/nya-saab-9-5-p%C3%A5-bes%C3%B6k-i-stockholm/
That would have to be a good sign!
Since the comment edits Swade has been completely silent. No new nothing. I bet he has something up his sleeve. Some Big News.
Taking SAAB the 9-5 is like killing the buisness plan. with killing the buisness plan there is no reason to get an EIB loan.
without EIB loan it´s hard to keep SAAB runnin.
Hey if you want to sell the company you need things to sell.
This made me feel angry as h…
Granted that GM will use bits/technology from the 9-5 to produce a ‘premium’ Opel (can they really do better than the Insignia? it’s already a good car), I imagine the end price of such a car would be quite high. It would compete then with the big players on the auto market. Their car should be at least three times better than a BMW for example, in order to make anyone pay the same price for it. Not to mention the other European brands. Therefore, I think this would be just a stillborn venture.
But then again, it’s GM we’re talking about, it seems to me they have a different logic (if any).
Dutch newspaper Financiële Telegraaf now uses SU as source for its reporting about The Miami Connection:
(in dutch)
http://www.telegraaf.nl/dft/bedrijven/spyker_cars_nv/5663368/__Eindspurt_om_Zweedse_Saab_ingezet__.html?p=14,1
Problem was that this guy himself was not feeding info to Swade, but his comments elsewehere were copied here by others without him knowing so. The info itself was not too hot to publish (I summarized it a few comments up), but the way it was brought here, compromized the source. So please let’s forget about this. Steven did the right thing by editting the sensitive part.
Figures…
Lucky for SAAB this is only plan B
100+ mikaik
there is no need for an premium opel.
it´s hard for them to sell the insignia opc.
Unlikely! For example: VW builds the Phaeton – technically a very good car. But nobody buys a VW for that money, if he can have a Mercedes S-Class, BMW 7xx or an Audi A8! Fact!
This was also the reason why the senator would sell even then badly. And it will come back when Opel would offer a car above the insignia. Opel is and remains – mainstream! Nothing else.
I hope this is all just a rumor. My up = MIND UP!!
GM decided to keep Opel after the negotiations with the German Government so disgusted Europe Manager Carl-Peter Forster that he resigned.
After keeping Opel in order to have a foothold in the European market, GM wants to get rid of as many European competitors as possible. So goodbye, Saab.
Selling Saabs as Buicks reflects what the geriatric GM management is – a bunch of tall old guys who move from industry to industry without knowing much about what they are doing.
There are exceptions – their new Europe Manager, Nick Reilly is only 59, just four years older than the rebel Forster. Expect him to get a top job in Detroit when he’s old enough.
One question remains – will a slightly old-fashioned Chinese-built 9-3 or 9-5 be the best value on the Swedish car market in 2012? With a free tool chest and bag of nuts & bolts if need be? Need a cheap showroom? Try the Opel dealership in Trollhättan!
@SAAB_andee: I agree with you. I think that there are a bunch of dudes at GM looking at how to save money from SAAB’s winding down, and of course, on of the things is to use the new 9-5 as some other model.
What worries me more, and isn’t mentioned here is that the plan actually predicts a slow 5-years process. What does this mean?
when i read this article first ,i was really angry.
but if you are thinking about it – this is pure bad journalism.
the 5 years plan comes from the winding down meeting before christmas. this story was from Hakan Danielsson. it was published and talked about ,in several newspapers and SU.
the lacrosse is already existing. but maybe the writer of this article hasn´t checked this.
and then there were some good news which were removed. i hope swade could tell us more if the time is right
So do we know the ‘problems’ with Spyker now? Was it that GM tried to reserve the right to re-badge the 9-5 for the US market (and tried to exclude SAAB from that market)?
If this story were true, it would show that GM doesn’t care about its own future: for if GM can’t build something like the 9-5 outside SAAB, closing down SAAB and using the SAAB offsprings would only provide a short time remedy.
Let’s hope it is not true.
Patrik,
To be honest, I’m too tired to care if I’ve pleased everyone. I’m spent. Worn out.
As josimar pointed out, The Oracle’s comments were posted here without his knowledge and were not meant for an audience wider than that to whom he first addressed them.
Now, it might be a little niave to think that once they’re online that they’ll stay in one place, but be that as it may, he contacted me personally and asked for their removal. I complied.
That’s how it happened.
Given that 60% of GM now belongs to american tax payers and the way they’ve handled GM’s European operations so far, I think it is fair to say that there is no long term strategy.
As I recall, they wanted to ditch their European operations because american tax money was not to be used outside of the US.
I think at some point they realized that they could make money from selling Opel cars, rather than selling Opel as a company. Plus the German government’s intervention helped Opel’s business case.
Maybe that is their long term strategy? Shake out as much government money as they can and get rid of some old baggage?
It is early for me, and I’m rambling again. I think my point was/is that there does not necessarily have to be any long-term strategy. They’re currently trying to keep their boat afloat. Everything else is gravy.
Saab appear to have lost money the last decade due to GM’s accounting practices (http://di.se/Nyheter/?page=/Avdelningar/Artikel.aspx%3FArticleID%3D2009%5C03%5C23%5C329959%26sectionid%3DEttan). And the Swedish government refuses to throw good money after bad, thus reinforcing Saab’s image as a loss-making outfit.
What kind of strategy can anyone form based on that? GM’s board are now mostly concerned with US politics rather than making good cars for the future.
i wasn´t afraid looking the buick lacrosse site of gm. it makes no sense of rebadging a 9-5.
the lacrosse is in reality nearly the 9-5 with a typically buick interieur. (of course the 9-5 is in details better , and updatet)
ps:the buick interieur is really awful. i don´t like it.
Unlike VW, Opel once was in the premium segment, so image wise, they might be able to benefit from their “Admiral” history. Further, the Phaeton is not in the same league as the 9-5. It also starts selling better and better lately. Incidently, the Phaeton is not about selling many Phaetons, but about selling more Passats (Halo effect).
There are thousend and thousends of Opel Omega drivers out there still waiting for a “true” sucessor to their beloved cars (I personally know three).
My personal feeling is not that people believe “Opel is incompetent mainstream”, but “They were having a hard time lately”. I am sure that at least in Germany, an Opel 9-5 would sell.
Without the 9-5, the rest of Saab would just be another factory on that already over supplied market, in which nobody would be interested. So, it will either be Saab with the 9-5, or no more Saab.
GM guys are funny
They make mistakes, admit to them, but then go on and it all over again
I’m a huge fan of Saab (obviously) but also of Cadillac (especially the last models) and corvette
GM WAKE THE F*8K UP, YOU’RE KILLING US!!!!
Unlike VW, Opel once was in the premium segment, so image wise, they might be able to benefit from their “Admiral” history. Further, the Phaeton is not in the same league as the 9-5. It also starts selling better and better lately. Incidently, the Phaeton is not about selling many Phaetons, but about selling more Passats (Halo effect).
There are thousend and thousends of Opel Omega drivers out there still waiting for a “true” sucessor to their beloved cars (I personally know three).
My personal feeling is not that people believe “Opel is incompetent mainstream”, but “They were having a hard time lately”. I am sure that at least in Germany, an Opel 9-5 would sell.
Without the 9-5, the rest of Saab would just be another factory on that already over supplied market, in which nobody would be interested. So, it will either be Saab with the 9-5, or no more Saab.
Of course it makes sense. 100 % GM sense. And this soulless badge engineering will keep killing them.
But feelings apart, 9-5 still belongs to GM. They have invested a lot of money into it, it’s a good product and it is actually their prerogative to do whatever they like with it.
There are worse products to use as a base for badge engineering, don’t you think? Especially if the only other 9-5 we will see is the one at the Saab museum.
Some info:
-according to German Wikipedia, the buick LaCrosse was also planned to be built in Rüsselsheim, until October, when this was cancelled.
-the last “big” Opel was sold in the US as Cadillac Catera until 2001.
Sorry guys, but I think the strory is mostly BS. Why rebadge a car that in the US will most likely share pricepoints and transaction prices with the Buick LaCrosse? Redesigning the 9-5 as an Omega or a Senator would make a bit more sense, but since Opel always failed at competing at that level, I don’t think that’s where they’re headed.
Either GM starts and keeps producing the 9-5 until they sell or kill SAAB, or they just don’t release the car. Unless the GM Board is convinced to close down Trollhättan and the tooling goes back to Rüsselheim, with the SAAB brand being folded into GME…
As much as I like this car – or as much as I’ve seen of it, I WILL NOT buy this car under any brand name that is not SAAB.
The new 9-5 may have a lot in common with both the Insignia and the LaCrosse, but it was designed as a SAAB, and it should be built in Sweden as a SAAB and be marketed under the SAAB brand.
That is all I have to say here.
Amazing!
-
This wouldn’t be a suprise after all what GM did with OPEL. GM backstabs sooner or later.
Who is saying the rebadge is for Europe or US.
ROFL !!!!!
SAAB is dead as we know it. If its a good car, I dont car what they call it. I say bring it in as a buick. It is most likely the only chance us in the US will see it.
That would imply that GM knows (or hears about) what gets posted on SaabsUnited. Whoa!
It seems pretty likely Opel would love to be back in the exec class with the 9-5. Maybe that is one major reason for GM to wind down SAAb after all: They think they can market the 9-5 – for whose concept and tooling they’ve paid anyway – themselves and for their own profit – as a BUICK in the US and Asia-Pcific, as an Opel Senator in Europe.
It would be the cynical exit line to GM’s involvement with SAAB. That’s how I see it.
I think we all need to sit back, take in a deep breath and wait.
Swade has indicated that GM want to sell so I see that as a good indicator of what we could be looking at, fingers crossed. He has tirelessly campaigned for SAAB to be sold by staying up late, getting up early and offering all of us hope for a brighter future. Let us not forget that Swade has his day job and his family to nurture as well and I do believe his wife deserves a huge thank you in all of this for allowing Swade to ‘play with his online friends’.
I, for one, think SAAB V2.0 should recognize the HUGE effort that Swade has put in by presenting him with a new 9-5. If anyone deserves it, its Swade!
Once we hear about what happens to SAAB I believe he deserves to take some ‘time off’ to concentrate on relaxing and spending time with his ‘real family’. Hell yeh we will miss him but I doubt any of us can say he sure as heck doesnt deserve it!!
Griffin Up!
Aussie Up!
SAAB Up!
Isn’t the upcoming Buick Regal already based on this platform? I don’t see room in Buick lineup for 2 cars in the same class with similar powertrain…HOWEVER perhaps they will rebadge it as a Caddy against the ES350? All not great solution for a really nice car.
I don’t see this happening. The new Lacrosse is built on the same platform EP II LWB. The Regal is built on the SWB platform. The 9-5 would overlap too much. I could see the interior however surviving in a future Buick or Caddy.
Here is the Fiat Story!
http://www.saabhistory.com/2009/12/23/fiat-returns-after-20-years-since-saab-purchase-attempt/
+1
Swade deserves some down time once this is all said and done no matter the outcome. We’re all in this together, but no one has put more effort into this as Steve has… we owe him a lot.
This is a great place for comraderie and information. Just a hour ago I was bringing in some firewood and was thinking of how “in the dark” I would be if not for SaabsUnited… I look forward to some of your posts ( Swade and others) as much as I ever have in any other forum.
This is a great place where folks all over the world come and talk of a common love and a common goal.
I have belonged to online gun groups… they fight and dicker among themselves as to who does more for 2nd amendment stuff instead of banding together.
Corvette groups…. some nice guys but most are too snooty and competitive…
WWII re-enacting/living history events ( which I used to do), too much political correctness or lack of any correctness (try being a German Re-enactor, I used to catch pure hell)
The point of my ramble is simple… here we all need to chat and get along as there are few places on the web as special and unique as SaabsUnited.
I dont know what sparked my ramble, I guess I needed to vent a little in a positive way.
I think Swade wanted a SportCombi….. so Saab should reward him with one, hell its the LEAST they could do! I doubt Swade would turn away a CPO one either…so long as it’s the right color.
Griffin UP!
nah.i’m named the rather dull moniker “josh”.but i have composed a song in my shed.as for the subject at hand…it makes no sense to anyone,so it must make perfect sense to the powers that be at gm.
Errr… to those talking about Alfa, Alfa Romeo has been rumoured to be in the chopping block (‘under review’ would be the appropriate business-talk term) as its sales have collapsed to half of what they were.
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