The waiting continues….
The update is same as it’s been all week. Spyker still in talks, Genii on the sidelines but maintaining a presence.
——
From sources in the Saab factory, we’ve learned that there will most likely be a production halt from weeks 5 to 10 if the wind down starts for real. If Saab is sold then there may still be some production during these weeks, depending on materials availability.
——
Saab Belgium have released a brochure for the 2010 Saab 9-5, complete with options and prices for the Belgian market.
You can view some bits at SaabCentral or you can right-click-save-as here for the pdf.
——
AutoBild is a German motoring site, also referred to ‘Audibild’ from time to time because of their home-country bias.
They’ve treated the global Saab Support Convoy with the utmost respect, however, from the largest to the smallest meeting.
Googletrans:
Save Saab! Two words, one meaning: Rescue the Swedish cult brand, the cars of the trolls before death! Parent company, General Motors can not or will not find a buyer for Svenska Aeroplan Aktiebolaget (Swedish Airplane Ltd.), and their supporters are fighting for their favorites. Together, hand in hand, bumper to bumper. …..
….. Most, about 2000, came naturally together in the Saab’s Trollhattan home. In Holland, there were at least 580, in three Polish cities along 315th But protests including a small scale were: In Adelaide, Australia were formed in at least three enthusiasts to protest ride – the rest were kept [away by a] poor weather outlook.
Just goes to show that the size of the meeting isn’t important. The fact that it happened is what’s important.
——
The UK convoy also got some press at AutoExpress, amongst others.
——
Spyker have recently moved much of their vehicle production to Coventry, in England. Prior to this, they were getting bodies and chassis shipped to Holland from there, so it’s a move that makes sense.
It’s a recent move, and to mark the occasion, there will be an early C8 Spyder on display at the Coventry Transport Museum for those who’d like to get more familiar with them.
Story from Pistonheads.
——
A GM employee had to correct one of Ed Whitacre’s public statements about the pricing of the Chevy Volt recently.
My point – I don’t believe that Whitacre’s blab about the price of Saab (he quoted $450mil) was on the mark. It conflicts with other stuff I’d seen over a week ago. And this Volt episode just goes to prove that a mistake from Ed when it comes to quoting details is quite feasible.
——
I’ve received a lot of email about these (and others) so I support I better link it up….
Winding Road has a gallery of Saab 9-5 wagon spyshots. There’s not much we’ve not already seen, but it is good to see it still being tested and proven.
——
Finally, if you’re the person who commented at another website using the name ‘Seriously?’ then I want you to know – I saw your comment before it was deleted, and I agree.
Related posts:
.
{ 70 comments }
That brochure makes it seems so tangible – fingers crossed for Sypker this week! Love the wheel selection – some cracking new rims in there.
With all due (keyword is “due”) respect to “another website”, I do have to chuckle. Give and take credit appropriately. I, too, agree…but I also acknowledge and appreciate all efforts throughout this campaign. Drive safely and KEEP ON SAABING!!!
What was that comment made by ‘Seriously?’
Come on… Come on, Come ON! Here’s to continued production of Saab cars in Trollhattan.
~P
’93 9000 Aero, 5 spd, 118K, White/Black.
With all due respect (keyword here is “due) to “another website”, I do have to agree. Give and take credit where credit is due, but certainly don’t get carried away stealing somebody’s thunder (even if it’s a silent thunder). Regardless, all efforts and contributions to this campaign are sincerely appreciated. Drive safely and KEEP ON SAABING!!!
The brochure also shows that this is quite an expensive car. If I exclude the TiD models (US market!) then prices run from $46,000 to $65,000, without tax and without any of the expensive extras.
Although the new 9-5 is a very nice car, I think Saab will definitely needs new cars for the entry (9-1?) and intermediate market (9-3?).
Undoubtedly, but the pricing for the 9-5 seems well benchmarked against A6 which is the European marker for this segment of the market. This generation does after all need to make a good margin to fund the very 9-3 and possibly 9-1 we alsowant to see.
Saab is the underdog and pricing below the main competitor (Audi?) seems a better strategy than entering the market by saying “We’re just as good” so “We’ll price it the same.”
I guess the new owner will have some say in this but I hope they recognize that Saab has a black mark on it’s name due to the For Sale sign on it’s neck for the past year. Price accordingly.
Exactly.
For the record, and not for the first time, the whole movement from the weekend belongs to the people who particpated and the people who couldn’t, but supported them. It’s a group thing, a community thing in which everyone played a part.
After looking again at the specification drawing of the front end of the NG 9-5, I’m stunned at how similar it is to the new Bugatti Galibier in its headlight shape, hood massing, and proportions. Aside from the trademark grill for each, the lights certainly are nearly identically shaped. There are worse cars to be similar to
http://www.themotorreport.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/bugatti-galibier16c-trademarkapplication-01.jpg
I think you do the 9-5 a gross miscarriage of justice. That is some ugly car to be compared to.
This might be Saab’s weakest showing on rims for a car…
None of them do anything for me. O well, I’ll live
Thats where Hirsch come in
Ehh I wouldn’t mind getting stuck with one of these. Maybe not with the same paint job, but I definitely wouldn’t be sad.
http://www.carbodydesign.com/archive/2009/09/15-bugatti-galibier-concept/Bugatti-Galibier-16C-Concept-5-lg.jpg
I’d definitely need to see all of them on the car prior to forming a true opinion. I like several of them, but more as conversation pieces than wheels. Actually seeing them on the car will likely make a world of difference. Drive safely and KEEP ON SAABING!!!
In fairness, I don’t think the pdf does those wheels any favours.
But on first glance, I agree.
The ‘blade’ wheels (ALU104), which were on some of the cars in Frankfurt, are the pick of the bunch IMHO (and look much better than how they’re represented in that brochure, in real life).
I did some comparing a while ago, and I discovered that Audi set the prices for the A6 (in Europe) about 2k above the NG 9-5. Assuming the prices remain relative, I think that the 2.8T XWD will come in at around $46,000-$48,000 (the A6 3.0T starts at $50,200).
I’m very much with you on that. I’d like to see them on an Aero model with the sport front air intake bumper as I haven’t seen that combination yet. The official running footage includes those wheels and they’re different from anything I’ve seen on the market.
Everyone it seems has a version of the turbine wheels (A105) now, and interestingly I think the best executed are the Spyker C8 Aileron’s:
http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/12/2009/03/Spyker_Aileron-topshot.jpg
How could they not have even one three-spoke or quasi-three spoke rim design?
The ones on the Turbo X were great examples.
They need to stop the weird pricing for Saabs here in the US. They price them at or near Audi and BMW and then discount them heavily. They need to price them below Audi and BMW. No one is going to pay the same or more for a Saab than an Audi/BMW. Past sales prove this. Maybe in 3 or 4 years when their reputation is repaired.
GM probably doesn’t know what they want to do at this point. Thanks to a number of interested parties, bidders, owners, convoy participants, and yes even bloggers the Saab sale has become to high profile to just dismiss. I am going to take credit for saying that “it’s GM(Ed)’s deadline”. At this point the timeline seems to be linked to “weeks 5 thru 10″.
My main concern at this time is GM running out the clock. The best situation for Saab is for GM to know that everyone is watching and GM had better not mess up. This needs to be a sustained effort until Saab is sold and GM needs to get the message that a non-sale is GM messing up really bad!
I think Ed is probably getting tired of the game of Saab Chicken.
GM SELL SAAB!
Just a thought.
I think the new 9-1 should take SAAB in a totally new direction. Remember what a ’57 Chevy was versus a ’57 SAAB? Initially, it was a joke- then people came around. SAAB needs to recapture that pioneering spirit.
If you’re the joke of the neighborhood,why should you care if you’re feeling good …. take the long way home….. (supertramp)
Personally, I like either the ALU 100 or the ALU 104′s
Personally, I like either the ALU 100 or the ALU 104′s
Personally, I like either the ALU 100 or the ALU 104′s
Personally, I like either the ALU 100 or the ALU 104′s
OH look Fairfax has gone out on a limb and reported something about Saab:
http://theage.drive.com.au/motor-news/ecclestone-offers-1-for-saab-20100120-mjwo.html?autostart=1
Yeh 104 or 105 but still. Nothing just grabs me like the MY04 9-3 Aero rims.
OK, I’m probably going to regret having said this here, but here goes:
The new Ford Taurus SHO (new twin turbo ecoboost engine, 365 HP) sells for $40,000, including the performance upgrade package. Without referring to my Saab loyalty, convince me that I should buy the new 9-5 for $10,000 more……?!
Come on GM! COME ON SELL SAAB ALREADY!
Come on GM! COME ON SELL SAAB ALREADY!
Come on GM! COME ON SELL SAAB ALREADY!
Come on GM! COME ON SELL SAAB ALREADY!
GerritN
XWD
NCAP 5 Star Rating
Actual design
Exclusivity
I’d argue better materials, but I know the SHO has a nice interior and I haven’t sat in a 9-5 and I’m still not convinced of the dash material.
Night panel alone is worth 10k
Plus the SHO, is a whale.
Sadly you’re right. What Saab would need to do is price their models honestly. This whole “It’s a $50,000 car list but we’ll let you have it for $39,600″ should just be, “It’s $40,000.” Once the sale is over an informal poll on what we think Saab should charge for each base level trim and each option, where we actually honor truthfully and not lowball, would be pretty valuable as a measure of where prices should be. Let’s just hold our hats on that until there’s a sale though. Any talk on here of “Saabs are priced to high to compete” just hampers positive dialogue of a sale, so just keep quiet please. Plenty of us are willing to buy the new 9-5 even if it’s at A6 prices.
Agreed Jeff. I really don’t care how much the NG9-5 is, I’ll be purchasing somewhere around December 2011/January 2012.
I am concerned a bit with pricing. This has been an issue through this whole process that has never really been discussed. I think 60K and up would be harsh. I would be out on anything above 40K. I would have to wait for a used 2010 9-5. I hope they can get leasing going if the 2010 9-5 does make it because that’s where a lot of sales will come from at those high prices in the US.
I saw on twitter that many people are linking to that report. Probably makes them think that Bernie just puts a one dollar bill on the table, says “here you are” and drives away in a NG 9-5… As we have learned, it’s a bit more complicated than that
Hmmm… kind of negative, playing up the $1, referring to a “last ditch” bid, saying “even though the American auto giant had said it had given up hope of selling the Swedish car firm.” They don’t sounds knowledgeable.
another snippet for you.
Buy SAAB for $1 ?
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,583356,00.html
- Haldex-sourced “sophisticated torque sensing all-wheel drive”
- Ford has been doing pretty well in the safety ratings lately.
- Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, lots of Americans like the way the new Taurus looks.
- Exclusivity, nah, Saab is not considered exclusive here, just quirky.
- Don’t need the night panel, for $10k I’ll glance at the dash once in a while.
- Well, the new 9-5 isn’t exactly small either.
Don’t misunderstand me. I own 2 Saab’s and I feel attached to the brand. I’m just trying to play advocate of the devil here. But I’m also trying to make a case for a new Saab lineup that is more inline with the old Saab that also had some less expensive models.
I agree. SAAB isn’t all about luxury, never has. We are not competing with Lexus. SAABS are unique, not soft like Lexus and Buick. Price is right for true enthusiasts.
I was thinking the same thing actually. None of those wheels really “do it” for me. I like to see the brakes!!
“If GM decided to wind down Saab, it would cost between $72.5 million and $145 million.”
Somehow I think it might cost GM a little more than that.
This sounds pretty much like a gagging order and kind of collides with the ‘free Saab spirit’. I don’t think that anything that we are saying from now on will be influencing the sale or non-sale of Saab anymore. I’m starting from the assumption that Saab will be sold and that the new owner will bring Saab back to its old glory in a couple of years. However, I don’t think that this will be done through the sales of the new 9-5 only, simply because it is just too expensive to justify for many of us (something about choosing between feeding your children and buying another expensive toy).
Since this is an unique forum with a lot of people with a lot of passion for Saab, I think we should also be able to discuss possible future models. If you are correct and we should only be glorifying the new 9-5 and rehashing old news then we’re better off if Swade just closes comments until a sale decision has been made.
Prepare for a long comment:
You can get a 9-5 with a manual.
You can get a 9-5 with a quality interior. I’ve sat in the SHO, and it’s plain to say the least. The LaCrosse blows the Ford out of the water (in design and materials) dips it back in, and explodes it again.
(NAIAS let me do a side by side comparo, and if the Buick is better, and GM originally planned on keeping SAAB, you better believe the SAAB’s interior should be flippin sweet.)
The 9-5 can beat an 330 hp smaller, manual transmissioned Insignia OPC in a race…with corners! (Straight from the horse’s mouth, no less.) I don’t think the SHO could do that. The SAAB probably has better sport seats than the Ford’s flat-backed fake-sueded ones as well.
If people (in general, not you) are going to argue brand, then why would you buy a $40,000(+!!) Ford family sedan? Don’t forget that the Ford is bare bones at that price, an unlikely feat for any car in this price range.
I am beginning to understand what Mueller said when he made the comment people want a Saab-Saab not an Opel-Saab.
In the US, the 9-5 is going to have lots of competition from GM with the Chevrolet Malibu and the Buick Regal. The Saturn Aura (now gone) and the Pontic G6 (now gone) are all on the same platform and these cars all look alike with the same dimensions. The Buick LaCrosse isn’t much different and only slightly larger. And all have excellent crash scores.
Looking at the Opel ENCAP scores, it is slightly better than the 9-5.
But time and time again I see cars doing better in crash tests than SAAB but in actual crash data (real world) they don’t do nearly as well as SAAB.
I always wonder what those SAAB safety engineers put in their cars that other brands don’t that makes SAAB stand out in real crash safety. Same goes for Buick.
It always makes me wonder what important tests the crash institutes are not testing.
But how will a 9-5 sell against a substantially lower cost Regal or LaCrosse ( a perennially good car safety wise in actual crashes as well)? I can see a few thousand dollars more for a 9-5 but I can’t see ten thousand. Saab had the same problem with the 9-2. It cost way more than the Subaru version and nobody bought it. I see the same thing happening with the 9-5 if they price it too high.
“Another website” has revised the original post…much better. Drive safely and KEEP ON SAABING!!!
The change was noted, and is much better indeed.
I think they should up the 2.8T to 330bhp as I dont think 280bhp will cut it in the segment. I like those alloys but are 18 inchers going to be available for the North American market?
The LaCrosse is 23mm longer than the 9-5, or less than inch. the 9-5 is about seven inches longer than the Buick Regal (and Opel/Vauxhall Insignia). Saab buyers are usually a breed apart and seldom would look at an Opel or Vauxhall, and I’m guessing that would be the same in the US for Buick or Chevrolet, so I don’t think GM has too much to worry about. You are right about the perceived value for the 9-5. At this stage, Saab probably can’t ask a lot more than the LaCrosse which is the 9-5′s closest cousin. Ideally I think the price should be midway between the LaCrosse and the Audi A6.
Very, very, very few Saab buyers in the US will ever consider a Buick or Chevy. They just are a different breed. They might consider a Toyota Prius, Volvo, Audi, Suburu, etc., but no way, no how, for “regular” GM cars, although that’s not to say that a Saab owner might also have a GM SUV in their garage also.
It’s not the first time a comment has been deleted from “another site”
Wonder why that site never has many comments to begin with. Grrr.
This must be some kind of preliminary brochure. I’m not even certain corporate Saab created it. Design-wise, it’s lacking with some odd fonts and placement. I sincerely doubt they would release a brochure, even in PDF form, with such poor images of the wheels.
About the wheels on the NG9-5…
I think they look awesome! One of the many things Saab does right is rim design.
Hi!
The car starts at 36000 euros on Belgium it is likely it will be around 299 900 SEK in Sweden. And the Linear is fine for me. 325 000 SEK for the Combi 2.0 Tdi with automatic.
Great to have a catalogue with specifications and pricing. Looking at the specifications from a European point of view, there are a few key points:
- Pricing is actually good for most models, given the huge dimensions of the car, that puts it in direct competition just to a Audi A6, E-class Mercedes and BMW5 series. There is nothing comparable from Italian or French carmakers, and in Europe big Japanese cars do not play an important role.
- With the packages the pricing seems very competitive to these brands.
- The biggest shortcoming is the engine choice. In continental Europe, most markets are pure or mainly Diesel markets, and their is no Diesel adapted to the car size (should be a 220-250 hp Diesel). The small Diesel might be a good taxi choice with very low consumption, for individuals it seems insufficient
- With some additional tuning, both the small Diesel and the gasoline engines will offer great value and acceptable consumption figures.
- Again, one of the reasons to buy a SAAB will be 4-wheel drive. But there is no Diesel combined with 4-wheel drive. Something to accept for the 9-3, because apparently costs were to high to adapt. For a newly developed car it is disappointing.
- Given SAAB’s history, the 9-5 should offer a hatchback version; the Opel Insignia actually does offer it as well
- Among other potential features there is just one, I am missing, and that is a night vision system. With SAAB’s focus on safety, that would be appropriate.
It’s not meant to be a proper brochure, just a price list that will accompany a real brochure. Isn’t that what “Liste de prix” means? It’ll be nice to see what comes with it.
Alot of the public photos of the new 9-5 displays a TTID XWD bage on the trunk lid.
So my guess is that base engines only will be offered with FWD (and the 2.0 TID is a base engine). Giving the following combinations:
Petrol
1.6T FWD
2.0T FWD & XWD
2.8T XWD
Diesel
2.0 TID FWD
2.0 TTID FWD & XWD
Lars Carlstr
Lars Carlstr
Lars Carlstr
Lars Carlstr
Dear GM,
Please do not take any hard decision that you may later regret. Take a decision that you will be proud of it. Take a decision that respects all those who have chosen to buy your cars. Take a decision that respects true motoring heritage, history and value. SELL SAAB.
Thank you GM!
Thank you for listening!
Off-topic story, but nice in my opinion:
I just came back from my regular family ski-week in Austria, with my brand new (12 days old) 9-3 SS. This year there was a heavy snow, and climbing to 1755 m was a big problem even with snow chains… One 4WD Hyundai SUV had to give up, and wait for help, and all the rest friends, some 15 of them, used snow chains… except for me:-) There was no problem at all (eh, correction: I had one problem, driver of a brand new Mazda3 in front of me who several times almost stopped with snow chains on his wheels, and was way to slow for me;-). Northern spirit of Saab even with FWD (including ESP, of course) makes miracles:-)
Long live SAAB!
“
I think you are right. The rim images are not real pictures, but CGI’s. The Alu 104 can be seen on all vector version presented in the press (mostly carbon grey cars with rims that basicly have the same color). This as an example how the real thing turns out compared to the images used.
@Zippy. NG9-5 2.8T has 300hp, leaving plenty of room (about 100hp)for the future and Hirsch.
The 2.0T also has a lot of potential as we see competitors with the same enginemanagement get up to 370HP (VW sirocco race software). VW group has some 265HP configurations on their pricelist… if we just could get hold of that DSG transmission.
Thanks Patrik for the clarification regarding XWD for Diesel.
But there should be a more powerful Diesel engine as well. A few other remarks:
- I forgot to mention the Jaguar XF as a potential competitor model
- The tank with just 70l should be 75 or 80l
- The VDA measured space is actually small, given the size of the car, but its great to have the possibility to increase cargo space by switching rear seats 40/60.
- The Aero qualification for a 4-cylinder 220 hp model was okay 20years ago, nowdays it is a dilution. It does not make sense to me also compared to the 9-3. There is a vector trim with XWD also for the 9-3. The Aero should really be a top of the line car. No problem with a 4-cylinder 280hp.
Hey all,
the prices mentioned in the pdf file are indeed the actual customer prices for Belgium, I already received this information at the presentation of the new 9-5 here in Belgium (2009) and now again, and the prices remained the same. It is thus official information from Saab Belgium. It was however stated that substantial discounts on purchase can be negotiated.
Best regards, P
The 2.9 V6 diesel from VM Motori, which was planned for the 9-4x and NG9-5 was canceled by GM (what’s new). The car will be launched with the available engines, everything additional has te be developed inhouse. (If there is cash for it)
I disagree about the Aero Level.
Aero is now a trim level and the engines they offer for this level are still top of the line, leaving room for every market to offer an Aero with an engine that can compete in that market.
Look wat the introduction of a diesel variant on the 9-3 has done for a country like UK, Spain, Belgium,… The share of Aero-leveled cars went up drastically.
The base model of the XF is about the same price as an aero 9-5. They lost a lot of potential in Europe by replacing the 2.7D with the 3.0D
Comments on this entry are closed.