Lance Cole is a writer living in England and has penned several books on automobiles and aviation. Saab enthusiasts would know him best for the book Saab 99 and 900: The Complete Story, which is an excellent and essential volume and available for sale at the SU Bookshop.
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Lance Cole on the need for Spyker to take us beyond the Saabness of things. Getting all spyked up for a tough road ahead...
The saga or Saab's survival reads like an Arthur Hailey novel, yet here we are in the cold clear blue light of a dawning reality - Spyker saved Saab - with some help from the internet, the Saab community at large, Saab's management team and workforce and a colorful cast of potential bidders.
Saab lives and we must not undersell the unique contribution made by an internet-led series of Saab Support Convoys in over 60 cities around the world. GM got a message, that in PR terms, must have made them realise the risks of contaminating their own backyard if they dumped Saab in the manure heap.
Alright then, so what now?
Can we Saab enthusiasts offer any insight to Mr Muller, and to Saab's management? I reckon we can.
So here are some thoughts of my own, egged on by a few of you. We discussed these things in the recent article, How only design and money can save Saab. Well, Victor got the money, so what of the design?
In the short term, Saab cannot deliver the new small Saab or the coupe that it needs to reach the parts it once reached; those ideas will have to wait. Although, as I told CAR magazine last week, Saab needs, and always needed, a small car - but that car needs to be an icon, a little gem, a jewel of a small car with the handling to back up its looks.
The new small Saab, which would sell in its hundreds of thousands if it hit the target in these times of social and climate awareness, must not be a retro-pastiche and neither must it be a con-trick. It needs to be as smart as the BMW Mini, as funky as the new Fiat 500, as well designed as Citroen's new DS hatch, and as useful as GM's calm but excellent, little new Opel/Vauxhall Corsa.
A new small Saab would reflect Saab's roots and re-build the brand's customer base in Scandinavia - as well as all around the world. There is nothing to stop it being based on a current floor pan and drive train that could be bought in. After all if Aston Martin can launch a car (the Cygnet) that is a re-skinned Toyota IQ, anything goes.... but not at the expense of the car itself and its chances of selling... Our small Saab must feel and handle like a proper Saab - no woolly steering thanks, ok? (Ed note: If Saab ever do anything as lame or cynical as the Cygnet, I will chew off my own hands at the wrist rather then touch it. Just sayin....)
But that is for the future - as is the VW Sirocco beating coupe that Saab also needs to reinvent its self and its brand pillars with - as is the case with, 'bring back the hatch.'
So here goes with some themes for the current model range that could be done - soon:
- Launch the new 95 fast, get it out there now in the existing spec, then during 2010, create some special editions.
- Give us a leather lined 'Spyked- Up' new 95 that is trimmed in proper tan leather in the same style as a Spyker - but be sure to keep a non-reflective dark grey 'top roll' on the fascia and door tops. Throw in some B and O / Phllips sound technology, add a touch - but not too much, bling. Oh and some racy alloys: Avoid festooning the design with spoilers and sill kits (YUK!) So give us a Spyker edition new 95. And see how good it will look in metallic dark cobalt blue, or Saab thistle green, as well as in dark ruby red or a purple -indigo-black.
- Give us the new 95 wagon / estate soon - and offer us a really sporty version - Spkyed-up if you like. Hey an Audi RS 6 wagon and saloon competitor! Think about it - a hyper car version of the new Saab 95 to take on the Audi RS range.... Power, alloys, 4WD, amazing blue or red paint - with 'sports- tech' equipment, all this is quick and easy to offer us.
- Make the most of that almost forgotten love-child, the 9-4x and get the Police to use them all over your world markets, especially in the UK, USA and Europe. That way the car will have visibility in the publics' eyes. Oh and 'Spyke' that up too - to eat footballers wives and bankers BMW X6s' alive. Product- place the 9-4x with yachtsman, glider pilots (like me!): Do a Saab version of Volvo's Ocean Race brand if you like.
- Flag up the 9-3 TTID. As I have said at SU before, the TTID drive train application is superb. It's a great car with all the best attributes of diesel torque and overtaking power. So, make more of the TTID in trim variants and in your advertising. The TTID has to be driven to reveal its talents. Get people driving them - especially company car drivers.
- Spend a small amount of money to upgrade GM's low rent interior plastics on the current 9-3 - change those floppy electric window switches and the hard grained door trims. It's easy and cheap and would lift the whole interior and increase sales as people are put off by that cabin plastic in the showroom.
- Re-launch a Viggen range - and use it to bejewel the current 9-3 convertible range with enhanced trim and options - adding lustre and sales appeal.
So, give us enhanced trims, alloy wheels (which Saab excels at), special editions - with integrity, not tat. Offer us that Audi RS range competitor: Offer us Spyked up cabins and options. Earn hard cash getting the new 95 saloon and wagon into high profile marketplaces. Push the 9-4x across the Police, mountain rescue, coast guard, sports clubs, and outdoor events ranging from horse riding to gliding clubs.
What of the Turbo legend, what of the EMS trim? These were icons, can they not be used again in the classic re-invention of a wider Saab marque?
The above tweaks could build profile and create showroom traffic and 'brand up' Saab - making the most of all the affection we saw in the Save Saab movement. Sponsoring outdoor events like cycling, riding, gliding or the like, could build a following - a la Volvo Ocean race...
In the medium term, Saab could gain many new sales if it invested in turning the new 95 into a hatch back - all it needs is a low cost re-engineer of the C pillar brace by creating a shear web support fin in either C pillar - to run down and back to the rear wheel arches. Then that rear end will be stiff enough- despite its new hatchback. Bingo- the hatch so-beloved of Saab buyers would be back and sales would rocket - they would, we love the hatch - and Audi and BMW just proved that the hatch is back with their own hatched versions of their existing A5 and 5 series ranges: Proof then that a 9-5 hatch would be in fashion.
Would it not be quite easy to build a two-door coupe version of the new 95? A quick B and C pillar tweak, with a longer door and you have a premium quality executive coupe to hit Audi, Mercedes Benz, Lexus et al with... that could be so elegant, so svelte and timeless.
In the longer term, Saab needs to invest soon in that small Saab icon we are crying out for and have been for years. But please do not create a new Saab by welding the front and backs of two cars to create a new one - Saab did that once you know, see the Saab 90 story here at SU...
The new small coupe might be called Sonnet, it might be called something else. Whatever, just give it us by 2014/15 please and make it of composites and trim it - slightly Spyker style.
Oh and one last thing....
If ever there was a car brand that encompassed new thinking - carbon fibre composites, aerodynamics, electronics, solar power, hybrid drive, organic and sustainable trim materials, advanced design and the move your mind, lateral thinking, it was Saab. So surely the ultimate Saab-Spyker would blend all that together in an iconic update of Bjorn Envall's Saab EV 1.
Now with that, Saab Spyker really would move the mind of the world.
Lance Cole (c) 2010.
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Ed note: We all may have to wait a while for that small icon, as both Jan-Ake Jonsson and Victor Muller have recently said that a new 9-1 could not be done without significant additional investment. Saab are concentrating on the new 9-5s and the 9-4x, as well as the design of a new 9-3 range. But that 9-1 would surely be nice......SW
A re-vamped EV-1 would be great. Personally I'd take one over an Aero-X, but really I think Saab should eventually come up with a post GM concept car, not one that points back to previous cars, EV-1 or Aero-X.
NO please!!!
no me to RS6/M5/E-AMG
no quilted lether
no B&O
no SAAB Ocean Race(BTW the SAAB Salomon stuff is already there)
no Viggen as a trim option (Viggen is a car not an option)
And back to 9-1/Sonnett/whatsoever; SAAB Spyker has, as of now, no money for that, maybe in a couple of years; but if somebody is willing to invest I can't imagine Mr. Muller not willing to accept.
This is something I´ve wanted to see long time ago already. When I go to outdoor sports event I see Audi & BMW showing & offering their cars for a test. They really give you and impression of a car for the sporty & active people. 9-3X is really made for this.
So it should be visible! Get it out there, everywhere. Make people see & drive it! The time is NOW!!
They could even go shorter if the platform is not designed to take a V6. That's got to be good for a 20cm shorter hood (bonnet).
Regarding car multimedia, Saab should start something new and instead create connectivity with external components instead of building expensive brand stereo solutions.
Something like connections/docking in the trunk which allows the attached units to be controlled by the controls in the dash, and even possibility to connect extra amps if required.
I know that the earning is probably good on options like this, but because technology moves so fast the solutions are outdated before the cars hit the showrooms..
Would a two door coupe hatch 9-5 be too much of a stretch? I personally would love one!
1. Improve SAAB web site. This one is old and now I can say prehistoric and belongs almost in the GM era. Still have the old 9-5 as a product, even now when the last one is produced and placed in the museum.
2. Become better on building and maintaining SAAB web community. We have seen the power of the web and different applications like Facebook, Twitter etc. The current Newsroom have implemented some of these, but poorly.
3. Involve SAAB fans and customers in proposing different things, like Lance have done that in form of different web questionnaires, "question of the day", and taking parts in different actions, like SAVE SAAB rallies (or now SAAB SAVED).
There must be more proposals for this, but this is something that can be done NOW. Because SAAB enemies don't sleep, This deal has been questioned day by day in e.g. Swedish press. SAAB must win media war first, in order to win back the customers.
Oh, and for those who wants a longer car - buy the sedan or SC :-)
if the "all SAAB" 9-3 is meant to apear as MY 2012, then I expect to be based on the DeltaII platform.
Sorry SAAB purists, we will get another Opel/Vauxhall/Daewo/Chevy/Buick/Holden on steroids.
If this is the case,
YES 4.5 - 4.6 will be the size of the sedan
YES a V6 (At least Turbo) wouldn't fit unther the bonnet
and
YES it will have a longer wheelbase and thus mor interior space.
Colour? Amethist Black.
Best, Andre
the 9000 was an amazing car. One of the best driving experiences I had...
What can be learn from this model? How about downgrading the price of spare parts for this "absolute-calm-highend swedish product", a so keepping them on the road for ever...???
As for "Spyker" Saabs I don't mind the idea and to be honest I'd rather have something like that pitched at BMW/Mercedes rather than Saab doing that for now. The brand needs to be built up again. I'd rather they be aimed at VW, and work up.
(btw I've noticed that in the US the opinion of VW is rather low, but that's not the case here in Australia, it's more semi-premium here)
A smaller Saab is my personal dream because I don't need a bigger car. My OG900 is perfect size, my NG900 is a touch bigger but not bad. A smaller Saab would probably be about as wide as my OG900, which would be very cool. But, unlikely at this point :(
As for a 2 door 9-5. Not sure this would work. That 9-5 looks very big in the pictures and I don't know what kind of market there is for a huge 2-door like that (as far a volume goes anyway). Yes there are some available but they're generally very expensive and you never see them on the road. We need volume now.
Hatch = Key to success :)
Saab should be better and slightly lower priced comparing to rivals to restore image, and it will be very difficult in materials/build quality of interiors for 9-5 and 9-3. (and, Me, YES to quilted leather! in some limited editions, at least). 9-5, 9-3 and 9-4 need an interior update right now! Get rid of those Chevy Epica radios, Opel steering wheels, Opel gear sticks and some not-so-good plastic details. It is a must. Agreed on special editions (great halo effect!), add some co-branding, boost diplomatic sales!
P.S. Spyker edition - why not in orange? :)
maybe saab should try to cooperate with red bull (the master of marketing). rb "gives you wings" like a turbo ;-) red bull is focused on extreme sports and motorsports (f1&wrc), maybe vm can convince them to sponsor a saab ralley team in the future. rb is sponsoring the citroen team right now.
As to a big 9-5 coupe, I'm not sure. I tend to find the NG9-5 sedan a bit on the stodgy side, and I tend to think a coupe could end up being even more so. Too big for me anyway.
When the new owner would make the brand more saabish i think they must hear to the fans what they need and want to be sucessful in the future. My wish is that they will give us potent engines with much power ........Single and twin Turbos........ then high quality interior not looking like an opel or an other gm model...... every model from a 9-1 up need an XWD.... and gives us real saabdesign as we saw in some studies in the past
Sure you need to make use of the great heridity, such as turbos and aircraft history, but by making retro inspired designs... nope ...
Saab has made is reputation of being innovative and pioneers, that's what they need to be again, I think.
New smart odd solutions, thanks!
And solvy, great idea about Red Bull as well. Red Bull is a very good brand with excellent associations.
griffin up!
Instead, Saab designs should look into a beautiful, "day-like", cozy and clean future with a scandinavian accent (i.e. laconic and natural).
I would love to get a 9-5 CombiCoupe. A two-door hatch with generous proportions and generous power. The hatch of the C900 3-door is a good goal to meet.
For stronger market presence, I would look at changing the car number designations. Sell the new 9-5, 9-4X with those names, but then to show GM independence adopt a new naming system for newly independently redesigned models. And drop the "sport" from everything for 2010. I don't want my car to be named 9-3 Sport Combi Sport as in 2009. If you are sporty, then you shouldn't have to say it.
www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/news/spyker-fehlt-noch-geld-fuer-saab-uebernahme-1722416.html
The quote below is from "Autospeed" in 2000:
"Saab Automobile has unveiled a revolutionary 1.6-litre petrol engine that reduces fuel consumption by up to 30 per cent without impairing engine performance, but can also deliver the power of a 3.0-litre V6 engine when needed.
The Saab Variable Compression (SVC) engine concept was unveiled at the Geneva Motor Show on February 28, 2000. The prototype 1.6 SVC engine - developed entirely by Saab - is a supercharged five-cylinder engine producing a maximum 168kW of power and a massive 305Nm of torque. However, the SVC engine is as fuel-efficient under normal conditions as a conventional 1.6-litre engine. Its breakthrough is that it can produce tremendous power on request, to give the best of both worlds."
Clean smooth design like my iPhone ... the talk of SAAB should be the like Apple can be a little silly sometimes but it got some good points still.
I am new here, at least as a writer. Been an intense reader for the past two months or so. Very dramatic.
Lots of thanks to Swade and the SU team, of course, and also to all you guys writing the exceptionally good comments here. I have been telling all my friend about this remarkable site and the efforts made to save Saab.
My Saab history includes an OG 900i, and the current 9-5 2.3t SC. (In between a couple of Alfa Romeos.) I grew up with various 99/900/9000 as a kid. I am pretty sure that some 3-5 years from now we will be in a NG 9-5 SC.
I think the discussion here regarding new models is good and I agree with most of what has been said. I would also like to see a small Saab some time in the future.
I do not like Saab to necessarily join the M/RS/AMG race. The Aero should be there of course, but it should just be powerful enough and not to cost as much as a M5. "Lagom". If a performance Saab is needed as a marketing weapon, a hybrid version of the Aero-X with Spyker influence to take on the Audi R8 (or even better, Alfa 8C) would be fantasic. Could be built by Spyker in a small series.
Regarding viral web marketing tool, it would be fantastic if Saab would liase with Swade. A far fetched paralell, I realize, but the biggest Swedish rockband "Kent" made the independet fan site kent.nu to their official site. I think they hired the guy running it.
An alternative to that, or to invest a lot in a community site at saab.com (that might or might not take off) could be to hook up with something like getsatisfaction.com. The music service Spotify is using that. Spotify employees answer questions and collect feedback using that community tool. Seems to be working pretty good as far as I can tell.
I will continue to hang out here, for sure.
Cheers,
Jonas
That is why I don't think that the focus on the BMW and Audi as main competitors on the market is correct. These companies spend incomparably more money to create and to promote their cars. Chasing them will lead to the price hike while achievement of the same level of quality/performance is impossible without appropriate financing.
Is Jaguar a competitor to Mercedes? formally yes - similar size etc. Actually - NO. So should be Saab I think.
http://www.dn.se/
"Kan Saab bli lönsamt redan inom två år?"
http://www.reuters.com/article/idCNLDE61109C20100202?rpc=44
25% say maybe
15% say yes
Today I'm not in a positive mood, and those numbers don't make me feel better.
I never suggested 'quilted' leather!
I should have been clearer- proper leather- quality leather in proper tan colour. Not the cheap nasty GM leather that creases and ruins within 5,000 miles on the drivers outer bolster on the seat of the 93....
Oh and did anyone spot that I criticised Spyker's coloured dashboard leather that reflects in the screen.
I also said not too much bling, easy ont eh bling did I not.
Easy folks, these were just ideas and themes from self and others.
I still think a new 95 'hatched' would be a quick and easy WIN!
What Saab needs is profile and showroom traffic - SOON!
I say no more
in the same style as a Spyker mislead me a little bit, I think?
Right now Saab needs to focus on bringing its materials up to par with the prices it wants to charge for its current cars, and the class it wants to compete in. First off, drop the pleather! When you pay for a nice car with leather seats, it should come with the smell. I've sat in a few new Saabs lately and they smell like new cars... but no different than a Ford, GM, Hyundai with cloth interior! The Saab "smell" was important enough for Lance Cole to write a whole article about a while back, so VM, it's a large part of the "Saab DNA" you're looking to bring back. I would also love to see some rich warm tan leather. The white parchment stuff looks very cold and un-inviting to me.
Don't put the Spyker name on any Saabs as a special edition. Spykers are amazing vehicles and fit well into the super car class, but as soon as you put anything Spyker on Saab it becomes gaudy. Keep the traditional Saab trim names. At the most make an "Aero-Spyker" edition. With a very humble "Spyker" signature under the Aero badge. A fully-optioned 9-5 Aero with some extra fancy leather (NOT orange though) and some cool wheels, minimal chrome, and maybe a leather-wrapped dash ala Hirsch. Then put a cool plate on the dash with a plate that says "Aero-Spyker Limited Edition No. XX out of 1200." THAT might be cool.
In the future I would like to see the Aero editions be more set apart from the rest of the line-ups. When my 2004 Aero was relevant it had an obscene amount of power compared to other cars and the rest of the 9-5 lineup and has body panels that make it instantly recognizable as an Aero. The 9-5 Vector and Aero are too difficult to tell apart, and yeah, 300hp is a lot, but it's not enough (especially considering the size/mass of the car). I respect Saab's "responsible power" approach, but they need to throw that out the window for the Aero's. My 9-5 Aero has 250hp with FWD! That is nowhere near responsible! Aero's need to be BEASTLY fast and slightly more exclusive. Bring back the Aero academy?
I could ramble on forever about what I think Saab should be... but I won't bore you all. Thanks for listening though.
there are 2 articles in auto motor sport.de
1) spyker has at that tim not enough money to buy saab under "news"
2) gm mus also return cars
My father and I ordered each a NG9-5 Vector this week.
Our job is done :).
you can only put one linkt at a time, otherwise Swade has first to review your post, and now he is sleeping.
1) Yes we know, AMS.de is rewriting the news from DI.se
2)It also says Audi will call some Q5's back because of problems with the Airbag.
yes but they wrote no word of the support convoys
in the meantime i read it too ;-)
Some say his upper torso is made of Viggen dashboard carbon fiber, and builds up to 20 psi of internal pressure when his 9000 breaks down.
Some say he's a really a Griffin, disguised as a human.
All we know, he's called the SWADE!
Muller believes in "retro-Saab"
ZEEWOLDE (AFN) - Volkswagen was the reincarnation of his Beetle, BMW put the old Mini in a new look and Fiat did it with his legendary "backpack" 500. Spyker CEO Victor Muller, the brand new owner of the Swedish Saab, is basically the same trick tricks with the iconic fifties Saab 92.
"It would be a Saab-like 92 cars should be. Such a nice little drop-shaped car packed with hybrid technology. A small green super-Saab denied, but a real Saab''said Muller Tuesday against ANP. If and when the new baby, named '9 -1 'is coming, is still uncertain. Saab will first examine whether a market is and how it can be financed.
"We will see if the strong growth in demand for smaller cars continues. We thought so,''said Muller. Simultaneously, the company studies how the development and production of the "retro-Saab 'could be funded. "If Saab better than we think that you might not need. And if it is not going so well, we might decide not to do. It is only a plan but a plan which I strongly believe'', said the CEO. How much money will be involved, Muller could not say.
Upside
Spyker last week put the car world on its head by saying that the Saab was taken from the U.S. car group General Motors. Tuesday was the little sports car manufacturer from Zeewolde there a little something to express the expectation that Saab, which has many years writing red numbers, profitable again in 2012.
To that end, Saab, which will focus on three to four models, but need a capital injection of approximately 1 billion U.S. dollars. Saab to pulling out the red Muller wants to increase the production level of 100,000 to 125,000 cars per year for the crisis. That includes the small SUV 9-4X, which is built in Mexico. The rest of the car rolls off the belt in Trollhättan Saab's home.
Positive starting point
"We will sell more cars. And we do that by offering models that customers want. Of these two are ready, the 9-5 and 9-4X. And over two years since the 9-3 comes with a new Saab''shall Muller. He expects the entire model range is renewed within three years. "And that's a very good starting point. If it had not happened, we had not dared''said the chairman.
Two decades directed by GM, with the Opel brand as one of the daughters, was the image of the Saab brand not good. Muller wants to mark his return and exclusivity does not mean that prices will soon rise from Saab. "I want to mark up, not down. I want closer to Audi and BMW aankruipen''and away from Opel.
Before a 9-1 can become reality, the 9-5 and next 9-3 needs to successfully boost the SAAB brand image even outside current SAAB enthusiast circles. How is that achieved?
The german brands create halo cars, AMG/RS/M versions and they go racing. This creates a perception of superior performance and reliability. It doesn’t matter if that is true or not for the mainstream versions, the perception is there and makes the dream real.
I think SAAB should learn from this, but not copy. In other words, craft something that’s truly exceptional, but do it in a new innovative way. Examples:
1) Craft a Spyked up 9-5, not by adding a large turbocharged V8, but by boosting the 300HP drivetrain with a 335HP Electric engine from http://www.electroengine.se/en/index.php mounted to drive the rear wheels, that’s a 635HP XWD Hybrid! Performance would be sensational and it would be possible to drive as a very environmental friendly Electric car in the city.
2) Go racing. Have ProDrive craft some Aero-X lookalike cars with Ethanol /bio-fuel engines and make sure they can win and endure at a prestigious event like LeMans. Possibly a Hybrid Rally 9-3 Aero-X could bring back some of that glory from the Monte Carlo rally days of mr Carlsson. Could hybrid rally cars become a new class?
the best think would be is:
media focus in every possible way
incentives (I know you are thinking we have no money) but if you brand name credit card and offer points toward purchase and/or offer balance trasfer and get the points this way toward the purchase of a SAAB, keep the warranty at 100K and extend the free Maintenance
we current SAAB owners like and love what we have right now but for the new comer need a bit more confensing than our words
the idea behind the Google.IPod is perfect
cash rebates on repairs outside the warranty window between 15% to 30%
As regards a dropshaped retro model based on the old 92, I frankly think it would be a really bad idea at this point. If Saab somehow finds the money to go for a smaller model, then it will need to be a really good seller. (I would most likely buy one myself!) The retro thing would only appeal to existing Saab fans, and not even all of those. It's a bit too much "off the beaten track" to attract larger numbers of buyers. The road should lead forward, not back. A new 9-1 based at least in part on the design of the 9-X Biohybrid, now that would be the way to go!
VM: – Yes, there is still a risk, the bank is now looking at our request. Everyone believe that we will get the loan, but no one can assure us that's really going to happen.
Victor doesn't usually sound that pessimistic, does he? :/
http://www.e24.se/business/verkstadsindustri/muller-saknar-175-miljoner_1832551.e24
Boil down what is the essence written over and over here by so many. I want SAAB to be firmly planted in Trollhatten. This brand needs simply express it's roots and it's "milieu".."Loci". The moment we dilute an ideal with style or superfluous design is the moment we loose what we are believing in.
Sorry for the idealism language. I am in design and we struggle with this very question every day on how to find the meaning in an idea. It's probably the most difficult challenge but it has been a tradition with SAAB to be able to do this even through difficult times.
Take the whole design and marketing team out into Varmland, rent a Stuga, pour some coffee, get a good wood fire going and verify the brand.
(My apologies in advance you folks in Sweden for interpreting their culture from afar)
Signed,
Eternal Optimist :)
First: Bring back the hatch. BMW now has a 5-series GT hatchback. Where is Saabs?!
Second: Make the rear seat able to fold perfectly flat (something the NG900 couldn't do) and without crushing the rear seat cushions (something the 9000 couldn't do). Then: Advertise the hell out of these 2 features. Do a commercial at an IKEA or similar store with people trying to fit large, bulky items in their cars. Show someone in their BMW, MB, Audi, or other sedan struggling. Then show how easy it is for the Saab owner to open the hatch and fold the seat. Hell, the Prius can do this, so why can't a Saab?!
Third: Move all the window controls back the center console. This is where they belong for the car to be a true Saab.
Fourth: Keep the seats comfortable. I love the seats in my 2003 9-5 Aero. The Viggen probably had the best, most comfortable seats I've ever sat in. I don't want low-sitting, firm seats like in BMWs and other German cars. Swedish cars are smarter and have better seats. Keep this!
If the numbers are not "copyrighted" by other makers, Saab should use them again
(crossovers could be just with X at the end)
Has anyone else noticed another positive outcome here? Various news outlets have been saying that the whole Saab sale debaucle might give Saab more brand awareness and positive attitudes.
Well, I think we can prove that now by reading the pages of Autoblog.
It used to be that every Autoblog article about Saab (even before GM announced that it would be selling or closing Saab) got spammed with "who cares, just let it die already" and the like comments.
In recent post sale articles, particularly ones discussing the new 9-5, the comments seem all around positive. There is still a negative comment here or there, but these are drowned out by the people complimenting the 9-5, and expressing their interest in having one.
I used to think that the sale was just the first of many precarious steps in Saabs survival, but now that I have seen the public attitutde change a little bit, maybe the next few steps are not as precarious as I had originally thought...
I do agree that there must be more of a "Halo"/Spyker version of the 9-5, a 3,5 liter 380 HP/550 Nm, it does not have to be 500Hp+ as the RS/AMG/M cars to get traffic in the showrooms. Then add a active chassis, some rims and interior trim upgrades and you will have a cash cow in the higher range. If cost would allow it, which I doubt, add the Hatch but I believe this is not a "9-5 must.
Well, I do believe the focus MUST now be on 9-3 development, and I DO NOT see anything but tradition prohibiting this evolving into a 9-1. Having it based on the larger 9-3 would minimize development cost. Although it would have a higher cost base, I would assume that would be offset by the lower ED&D cost. The 9-3 itself really have to get to the market ASAP, SS. SC, vert X-Air and a smaller Hatch (the 9-1)!
The 9-3/9-1 should have;
Gas/Petrol/E85 engines; 1,6T 180 Hp (GM engine available) EU entry level then 2,3 liter 230/280Hp and the 380 Hp/550 Nm 3,5 liter 6 cyl top of the line. All turbo of course, and no bad GMNA/Holden (sorry Swade!) derivatives! Greater steps allows higher sales price gaps (bad for us but good for Saab!). Low consumption/emissions and latest technology is a must!!
Diesels at 160HP (GM engine) and then 200 Hp and a 290 Hp/600 Nm high performance version.
Also the 9-4x needs to have the same engines (except for the 1,6T).
As for the interior, the 9-5 is a great step forward, but another needs to be taken to really challenge Audi/BMW and Daimler. Add another few bucks to the materials (softpaint, soft materials and leather) and the sales will increase to pay off way beyond the investment. Please also clean up the IP of the 9-5, it is to busy for premium customers with its mesh.
That is what I would do ...........
As long as I get my hatch :-D
BBTH
I do think your idea about promotion is fantastic-I have not seen Saab do that in a long while-do the Swedes have a fast jet display team? Would they like to zoom about in new 9-5's? Make it happen! Let's go for cyclists, skiiers, glider pilots and fast jet jocks and ocean yachtsmen-include the cops and high profile TV shows featuring quiet, intelligent professionals...Wallander, police dramas and the like-lets get the new 9-5 out there, this is the current bread and butter model.This is what they need to build on. I'm not totally anti the 9-4X but..its mexican and it is 100% Caddy and not remotely Swedish-this is not the bedrock for Saab's future. What it will do is highlight a brand to some folks that have never heard of, or consideed Saab before, but as for sales? I am and will remain sceptical about that model I am afraid.
With the new models from the 9-5 on they need that real scandinavian "Saab Spirit"-why not B&O or Philips sound systems-an excellent idea! Does Scandinavia produce leather, deer hide? Do they have a way of making gorgeous spruce dashboard facia? To really lay on the nutural renewlable elements of simple swedish design and make it beautiful inside. Use spyker for the "behind the scenes" stuff-suspension, breaks, strong hi-torque gearboxes-not too much bling, If I wanted that I'd buy a Caddy or a Beamer or some gold chains.
As for the 9-1 what should it be?
Generally throughout the world small cars are pretty awful-some of them are cute but most of them are still awful....until you get to almost mid size...and that is where Saab should aim, but it does need to be daring. We have the crowded sector problem again with the Mini and Golf -both are pretty, and undisputedly good cars they can be sporty and they are not cheap-so how could Saab get the USP here? Well, I said the Golf and the Mini was pretty didn't I? But beautiful? I look at my old 9-3 Aero and that is beautiful, the old 900 turbo, beautiful! What about making something truly beautiful but with the performance and ecomonmy figures to beat Golf and Mini-compared to the modern day Ur-Saab the tear-drop VM talks of as an idea, these other cars would start to look less pretty-even run of the mill. And with Saab's widely acknowledged green credentials, fresh new interiors and great build quality it really would have the edge. With it's gentle sloping back it may even have a space/volume advantage over the standard small slab backed hatches litering the roads at the moment-I personally think he's on to something and I suspect the sporty one of those, be it Aero or Spyker Edition would be a wonderful drivers car.
Well my view at least...let the debate rage on-the passion and the argument here is superb, it's all adding to the mix and I hope the people that matter are taking in the debate from the only Saab website that really matters. I am sure SAAB will be a great success if they canvas opinion from Saabsunited.com.
At the end of all of this I realise there may be subtle differences in each of our desires and needs regarding the future designs from our favourite stable/hanger, but when you average out the cocophony of our noise essentially we are saying very much the same thing-and that means if Saab listen, one day in a few years from now whether they like it or not, GM will be bitten back by Saab, and secretly that makes me smile.
Toby
They need to be progressive, clean, practical, high end, somewhat minimalistic, advanced, renewing,...
We all want the hatch back... yes, but only if it fits the design! Yes, we have to remember all the features that made a classic, a 9000, a ng900, etc unique, but we need to progress.
Trimlevels should be as open as possible (engines), but have a very distinct presence that reflects the personality of the owner... not necessarily his wallet.
Introduce a Viggen- engine (+ additional safety requirements eg. brakes), but do not linkt it to a trimlevel. Why shouldn't I be able to drive a NG9-5 vector with a stylish "Viggen" badge on the rear and a 400hp engine under the hood?
They really need to take the car to the customer and make sure that he can find "his" Saab.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWspEgdrUdM&feature=PlayList&p=F466117A9212D457&index=17
Count me on this. I used to drive C900 for years, downhill skiing, XC-skiing, mtb events etc. Now I drive Subaru Outback diesel. And there´s no going back..
And with this I mean, I´m not likely to go back to FWD car anymore. The comfort of having good AWD and decent road clearance is really important to me now that I´m used to it. 9-3X would be perfect for this use, but I really need a diesel.
SAAB Salomon team & products are really good advertising, but we don´t see them here in Finland?!
Maybe a new campaign now when Saab is SAVED and new products are behind the corner?
If the numbers are not "copyrighted" by other makers, Saab should use them again
(crossovers could be just with X at the end)
A simple and relatively cheap way of adding a bit of extra Saab DNA.
Me, I like the 9-1, 9-5 way of naming the Saab models. It gives Saab many options for new models, 9-8 etc. My two pennies worth, 900 and 900 were from the Saab era of twenty years ago like the 93 and 96 from the years before that.
I agree with Lance that the new 9-5 saloon and estate should reach our show rooms as soon as possible especially now they have stopped making the currant 9-5.
I would like to see the new Saab be risky with its body colours, be brave and have some odd bright ones. When looking at the convoy pictures from last month, most of the modern Saabs blended into one another but the old 95's and 96s stood out loud and proud. Maybe that is why my next 9-5 will be bright white. Although the red 9-5 does indeed stand out from the crowd.
Another thing I agree with Lance about is the dash top reflecting in the window, I notice that the rear light coloured shelves also reflect the light onto the window, maybe that should all be black or at least darker.
A new quick fix new model could be the two door 9-3 coupé, some one mentioned it in comments a few days ago and we know that there was a NG900 convertible converted into a coupé as an experiment and yes it could be a hatch. I believe this one would be quite do-able and we know how clever the designers at Trollhattan are.
Just a few of my thoughts.
Robin.
http://www.spykercars.nl/download/investor/Statement_SAAB_Feb_020210_final.pdf
Tom