Hey Victor,
In the past, I’ve written open letters to head honchos at Saab, usually in the USA. Jay Spenchian got one, as did Steve Shannon. Those open letters were written out of concern that those guys didn’t really ‘get’ the Saab brand and given that they were in charge of Saab’s single biggest market, it was felt that maybe they needed an introduction to the brand and the customers they would be serving.
This is a little different. First, you’re not in charge of a particular market, you’re in charge of the whole Saab Spyker operation. Second, I’d never actually met Jay Spenchian or Steve Shannon before I wrote to them, whereas I have had the pleasure of meeting you personally. And finally, You’re a different kettle of fish in that you don’t hold the same fears for us when it comes to understanding what Saab might be all about. There’s a feeling that you do already “get it” when it comes to Saab.
Nevertheless, the custom exists and there’s no more poignant a time in SU’s and Saab’s history than now for me to put figurative pen to paper and craft an exhortation.
Officially – Welcome to the family
One thing most of us know about tight family units is that they stick together, through thick and thin. And I don’t think times get any thinner for a business/family than what they did for Saab in the last 15 months.
Whilst there were some skeptics, most of us welcomed the Koenigsegg Group with a lot of optimism, open arms and a great deal of excitement. It wasn’t until that deal fell through, however, that we really felt the threat to Saab’s continued existence and with GM’s very serious threats to close the company down, it was time for a family meeting.
Those family meetings took place all over the world, mostly during January and I know that you got a good sense of what you were fighting for when you saw those Saab Support Convoys take place. We saw your determination, too. There was a little of “us vs them”, a whole lot of love for an iconic carmaker as well as a recognition of your efforts involved in those convoys.
Now that it’s all said and done, I think everyone who attended is well pleased – not just because Saab has been sold, but also because Saab has been sold to you.
So…… welcome to the family.
We’re a picky bunch and we don’t always make sense
I don’t pretend to speak for everyone here. I’m just a guy with a loud voice.
I can say with a high degree of assurance, however, that over all, the Saab community does have a very good understanding of the brand’s roots and history. And if you look at the core of what we communicate to you through sites like this one and others, then you should be able to get a good broad understanding of what the market is looking for.
We do have moments where we don’t make sense, though. Like whining about the very first 9-5 offerings when we should be happy that it exists and patient enough to wait for more variations. Or loving a Mini with a Saab grille photoshopped on the front.
Those are some of the exceptions, but over all, you can read some pretty good information from us about the products we like and the best ways to engage and interact with us.
So…. onwards and upwards, then!
Turbo is essential but it’s no longer the difference
I personally think one of GM’s bigger failings with Saab was not being able to read the tea leaves and see how important fuel economy was going to be in the future. Saab offered them the potential to get a massive headstart on the competition in terms of turbocharging but GM’s focus was on the cash-cow: American trucks, or SUV’s as we call them in the outside world.
Turbocharging is still an essential part to Saab’s DNA but we have to be honest now and acknowledge that it’s no longer a differentiator. There are a lot of companies doing turbos now and some of them are doing it better than Saab right now.
Please don’t ever release a new Saab range without a turbo unless it’s an all new fuel/energy system that makes turbocharging redundant. That turbo rush is one of the things we love most about driving our cars. But I guess the fact that everyone’s doing it now means that we’ve all got to look for something else to be the point of difference.
Design, Design, Design
My guess is that Design is where that point of difference is going to come from. And when I say design, I don’t just mean the way the sheetmetal looks or the patterns and colors inside the car – I’m talking about engineering design as well.
Early Saabs had the dual blessing of looking like nothing else out there, as well as driving extremely well in the conditions they were built for. Middle-era Saabs enjoyed even more distinction as they still looked unique, were incredibly practical and safe, and provided a driving experience superior to many of their contemporaries.
Modern Saabs, despite still being superb cars, have not enjoyed such a comparative advantage against their contemporaries, whether it be in terms of design or performance.
That Saab had some of their more successful sales years in recent times speaks more of GM’s massive sales reach and Saab owner loyalty than it does of pure, distinctive design prowess. Yes, these modern Saabs have been very good vehicles – the Saab 9-3 SportCombi is a true Saab in every meaning of the word – but I think it’s fair to say we want more.
A more dynamic driving experience.
More functional passenger and cargo load space.
More economical delivery of useful power.
More smiles per gallon.
We’ve heard several times through news reports as well as through factory sources in comments here at SU that Saab has some excellent technology waiting in the wings. Our message to you would be to unleash these crazy Swedes and let them do their thing.
You’ve got a great design team there in Trollhattan. These are people who have worked wonders with the brief given to them by GM in years past. And I’m quite sure that they’re also people who recognise the extraordinary opportunity they’ve got working for such a distinct brand as Saab at such an open time in the company’s history.
They will eventually have a blank canvas to work with, unfettered by concerns about other internal vehicles or politics. This must be a production designer’s dream scenario and I hope you’ve got them all suitably fired up about the future.
The essentials
Did I mention design? Did I mention engineering? OK.
The hatchback. It became an essential Saab identifier, mostly in the 1980′s when the Saab 900 brought the Saab name to the fore. Right from the mid 1970′s, however, the hatch gave Saab a practical component that few others could match. With the progressive evolution of the original Combi-Coupe design in the 1980s, Saab refined one of the most identifiable profile shapes in motoring.
One of the design tests that people like to use is the long distance profile and there are few designs in history that have such an instantly identifiable profile as a Saab 900 hatch.
Give us hatchback – please! Make it useful and beautiful and everyone who has ever been touched by a 900 will be interested again.
For the near term….. the one thing I hear people asking for over and over and over and over again is the combination of XWD and diesel. This is so important for the European market, where diesel is so prominent. It seems we’ve got the TTiD/XWD combination coming in the 9-5 in 2011, which is fantastic. I don’t know if the combination is economically feasible for the 9-3, especially the 9-3x, but if it is, then I know it will find a big marketplace.
Interiors. I know you know something about making a distinctive interior because I’ve seen the interiors of your Spyker cars. Saabs don’t need quilted leather or an exposed gear linkage (much as I love that linkage) but they do need interiors that ergonomically sound and incredibly comfortable to drive in. Saab seats have always been a hallmark in the industry and must remain so. Intelligent ergonomics are a must. Please bring the window switches back to the center console.
Should things go well…..
…..and I believe they will, then you might well have the opportunity to do something that’s a little less in the ‘essential’ column and more in the ‘enjoyable’ column.
That small car you’ve been talking about would be absolutely perfect. Saab need a new icon and if that’s the first car Saab get to design completely from scratch, all by themselves, then I really hope everyone’s primed to really hit one out of the park.
The right design, the right engines, the right chassis – essentially the right philosophy – will give Saab a chance to build something that truly is a statement. Make it fun and useful for younger buyers and give it plenty of room for upward growth for the tuners (the aftermarket is absolutely huge nowadays and there’s no reason you shouldn’t own a slice of that).
Final thoughts
It’s been a pleasure watching you emerge and take charge of this company we all know and love so much. It’s been a pleasure writing one of these open letters where I can talk about the future and rant and rave about the past.
We’re all in your corner. We’ve already seen what believe to be a great team in you and Jan-Ake Jonsson and the existing Saab management. It’s an incredible team and workforce you’ve bought into there in Sweden and as you said in your toast back on 23rd February – let’s all look for the day when GM say to themselves “we must have been nuts to sell this company”.
We’ve all fought so hard and for so long. The struggle isn’t over yet because now you have to actually build cars and reach customers. But everything’s in place to make that happen.
Welcome. Go hard and go well. We are all with you.
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{ 115 comments }
Right on target, especially the part about the need for better mileage.
Well put, especially on those window switches. I find it odd when I see the inside of a new 9-3 and see a bulk of buttons on the door. I have a few things to say about design on that small Saab, too. I’ll be shooting you an e-mail shortly, Swade.
Thanks for believing in Saab, Victor, and everyone who was behind you on your side of the deal.
Just one other thing on the point of design…
DON’T move the ignition!
Steven, I don’t know how you have captured these thoughts so perfectly but I have to applaud you for it.
To your points I would also add that, in terms of future fossil fuel technology development for automobiles, Saab should NOT dismiss and avoid exploration into hydrogen fuel cells. Hydrogen is the most abundant resource on the planet and may be the the most promising of the green technologies. Honda have done a great job in this area. While all electric is talked about by many, the electricity to charge the battery still comes from current fossil fuels (granted as well as hydroelectric and nuclear sources)
Great letter, Swade.
I’d just add one further request…
Bring back the analogue dash clock. PLEASE.
All I have to say is pay attention to the customer.
Do things right. Learn from GM and Toyotas mistakes. Safety sells.
You have my brand loyalty not GM. If it makes sense smart people will buy it.
Just some thoughts.
Could someone please elaborate on why the window switches should be in the center console? To me, that seems an illogical place to put them – not entirely unlike that joke about the keyhole to the door of the Saab factory being on the ground a couple of metres away.
Placing the ignition down there makes sense. Other than habit, there’s no particular reason for putting it by the steering wheel, but there is a sound safety reason for not doing it. But the window switches? If you want to roll the window down, then you intuitively look for the switch by the window. Granted, the switches for the other windows aren’t more logical to put there than elsewhere, but surely it makes sense to keep all the switches for the driver in one place. Also, the center console is usually cluttered anyway, with ignition, handbrake, cupholders and whatnot, while there is plenty of room below the window.
Could someone please elaborate on why the window switches should be in the center console? To me, that seems an illogical place to put them – not entirely unlike that joke about the keyhole to the door of the Saab factory being on the ground a couple of metres away.
Placing the ignition down there makes sense. Other than habit, there’s no particular reason for putting it by the steering wheel, but there is a sound safety reason for not doing it. But the window switches? If you want to roll the window down, then you intuitively look for the switch by the window. Granted, the switches for the other windows aren’t more logical to put there than elsewhere, but surely it makes sense to keep all the switches for the driver in one place. Also, the center console is usually cluttered anyway, with ignition, handbrake, cupholders and whatnot, while there is plenty of room below the window.
Could someone please elaborate on why the window switches should be in the center console? To me, that seems an illogical place to put them – not entirely unlike that joke about the keyhole to the door of the Saab factory being on the ground a couple of metres away.
Placing the ignition down there makes sense. Other than habit, there’s no particular reason for putting it by the steering wheel, but there is a sound safety reason for not doing it. But the window switches? If you want to roll the window down, then you intuitively look for the switch by the window. Granted, the switches for the other windows aren’t more logical to put there than elsewhere, but surely it makes sense to keep all the switches for the driver in one place. Also, the center console is usually cluttered anyway, with ignition, handbrake, cupholders and whatnot, while there is plenty of room below the window.
Could someone please elaborate on why the window switches should be in the center console? To me, that seems an illogical place to put them – not entirely unlike that joke about the keyhole to the door of the Saab factory being on the ground a couple of metres away.
Placing the ignition down there makes sense. Other than habit, there’s no particular reason for putting it by the steering wheel, but there is a sound safety reason for not doing it. But the window switches? If you want to roll the window down, then you intuitively look for the switch by the window. Granted, the switches for the other windows aren’t more logical to put there than elsewhere, but surely it makes sense to keep all the switches for the driver in one place. Also, the center console is usually cluttered anyway, with ignition, handbrake, cupholders and whatnot, while there is plenty of room below the window.
Could someone please elaborate on why the window switches should be in the center console? To me, that seems an illogical place to put them – not entirely unlike that joke about the keyhole to the door of the Saab factory being on the ground a couple of metres away.
Placing the ignition down there makes sense. Other than habit, there’s no particular reason for putting it by the steering wheel, but there is a sound safety reason for not doing it. But the window switches? If you want to roll the window down, then you intuitively look for the switch by the window. Granted, the switches for the other windows aren’t more logical to put there than elsewhere, but surely it makes sense to keep all the switches for the driver in one place. Also, the center console is usually cluttered anyway, with ignition, handbrake, cupholders and whatnot, while there is plenty of room below the window.
Hi Swade, this is a very good piece of article and encapsulates a lot of what the Saab enthusiasts want. I must admit I sold my 95 and bought a bmw 5 series when the news broke that Saab is going to be wind down. Though I still enjoy the bimmer for now, a huge part of my senses tells me I will probably be buying another Saab in the future. Long live Saab. Safety, design, individuality, ergonomics – all important elements.
Here here. I feel like every time I bring that up on the internet it falls on deaf ears. Not to mention the environmental damage done in producing the batteries.
I’ve driven lots of other cars on a regular basis but I can say for a fact that with the switches in the middle it feels more natural. maybe because I drive manual cars but I feel awkward reaching to the door to do something with the hand that is almost always on the wheel. Not to mention I almost never ave to look or get the wrong switch when i do because they can be spread out.
Terrific letter Swade … it really captures your / our passion for Saab, and we know VM shares that passion now … if he didn’t before. (Having that much skin in the game probably adds a bit to that passion, but then I’m just imagining!)
Two thoughts … First, on 100% Saab’s note about learning from GM and now Toyota’s mistakes, the timing right now is perfect to build U.S. marketshare. When huge brands … Chrysler is another one … are losing share, other brands that are positioned properly and tell their story will build new share to fill the void. Right now, it looks like Ford, Nissan, VW and Subaru are the major beneficiaries. When Saab 2010 product begins flowing and the marketing push makes the public aware that Saab lives with great new products, there is an opportunity to be part of that growth. In a U.S. market that will grow to 12 – 15 million over the next few years, 1% share delivers volume of 120,000 – 150,000. How much beyond break even is that?
Secondly to Mark’s point of alternative power plants, there is a fascinating article on Saab History about the partnership between Saab and Boston Power in developing electric. What is interesting is that in the presentation by the Boston Power CEO, she really does not address performance, cost, weight, range or recharge time … not to mention the fact that the electricity in many places is still generated by buring fossil fuel. Hydrogen Fuel Cells is certainly another approach, and not being a tech person, we can assume that there are other approaches in labs all over the world.
Current electrics are not there yet. Chevy Volt and Tesla are not the long term answer. Hybrids aren’t the answer either. Saab needs to be constantly looking to develop what will be the ultimate alternative power plant that can deliver. The first company that developes the technology hits a home run, and why shouldn’t it be Saab?
Terrific letter Swade … it really captures your / our passion for Saab, and we know VM shares that passion now … if he didn’t before. (Having that much skin in the game probably adds a bit to that passion, but then I’m just imagining!)
Two thoughts … First, on 100% Saab’s note about learning from GM and now Toyota’s mistakes, the timing right now is perfect to build U.S. marketshare. When huge brands … Chrysler is another one … are losing share, other brands that are positioned properly and tell their story will build new share to fill the void. Right now, it looks like Ford, Nissan, VW and Subaru are the major beneficiaries. When Saab 2010 product begins flowing and the marketing push makes the public aware that Saab lives with great new products, there is an opportunity to be part of that growth. In a U.S. market that will grow to 12 – 15 million over the next few years, 1% share delivers volume of 120,000 – 150,000. How much beyond break even is that?
Secondly to Mark’s point of alternative power plants, there is a fascinating article on Saab History about the partnership between Saab and Boston Power in developing electric. What is interesting is that in the presentation by the Boston Power CEO, she really does not address performance, cost, weight, range or recharge time … not to mention the fact that the electricity in many places is still generated by buring fossil fuel. Hydrogen Fuel Cells is certainly another approach, and not being a tech person, we can assume that there are other approaches in labs all over the world.
Current electrics are not there yet. Chevy Volt and Tesla are not the long term answer. Hybrids aren’t the answer either. Saab needs to be constantly looking to develop what will be the ultimate alternative power plant that can deliver. The first company that developes the technology hits a home run, and why shouldn’t it be Saab?
Well written Swade. Mr Muller, welcome to the family indeed!
Regarding window switches, I’m with Borjesson. I drive an 04 9-3 with window switches on the door and when driving my wifes 02 9-5, I find myself fumbling on the door before I remember where her switches are … those with gutter minds, those are window switches I fumble for!
Bottom line … it’s all a matter of what you are used to. If I drove the 9-5 every day, I’d have no problem getting used to window switches on the console.
An outstanding letter! I find that many of your comments are pertinent in bringing back former saab owners (as Victor said he wishes to do). Last month we replaced our beloved 9-5 SE wagon (with 180K hard-earned miles on it) with a new 09 9-3 aero sedan, and while i absolutely love the new car, it lacks much of the character that made the 9-5 so fun. The turbo V6 and xwd make the car handle and drive wonderfully, but the old saab had so much personality; the road feel was sublime and unlike anything else out there, the interior had features that at first seem superfluous but eventually reveal themselves to be incredibly useful, and most importantly the car was a place to be comfortable and enjoy the drive. The 9-3 is a great car but the difference between it and an A4 is much less than the 9-5 and any of its competitors. I find that the features that others call quirks we find to be the differentiators between Saabs and other cars, and find them quite relevant. Bring them back, but unlike GM, do not highlight these features for the sole purposes of saying “we’re different,” do it because you genuinely belive “we’re better.” I cannot wait for the new products, and I am prouder than ever to pilot a Saab.
And I agree with Swade, window switches work better on the center console.
Spontaneously I second B
Also, let’s restore the lock funtion so that it locks the gearbox, not the steering wheel. Much safer. Because, not only can’t the steering wheel be locked accidentally during driving (and, yes, on of my kids was close to actually doing that on my 9000, but didn’t rip the key out), it also prevents kids playing in an open car from getting the car moving and creating an accident (which is also a thing that happens regulary).
I don’t want to harp on it, but diesel sales in North America represent a great opportunity to increase sales volumes. With BMW, Mercedes and Audi only importing high performance V6 diesels, a 4cyl 9-3 diesel will get a lot of action in the US and Canada. But please add some sort of electric boost to the heating system or a heat battery.
Excellent letter, Swade. Perfect, really. Very warm welcome to fellow Saabnut Mr. Muller, letting him know we’re all confidently behind him, while still establishing some touchstones that the majority of the Saab community want. If it were a petition I’d sign it multiple times!
*Also, I agree the window buttons should be between the seats. I also agree it’s at least partially due to driving manual transmission. I don’t think Saab was the only one to do this…
I agree, hydrogen is probably the only fuel source that is sustainable (that I know of). This is what Saab should be working on and even if hydrogen is not widely avalible if there were cars that could run on it more annd more companies would make hydrogen avalible.
900 S- You are correct, many older European cars traditionally had the switches between the seats, I know BMW did it up until the latest 3-series, Mercedes-Benz did it regularly until recently, etc. Holden still does it with their models, and its a feature i really like on my monaro (US late model GTO). I understand that it is hugely a matter of personal preference, and i do believe that manual trans drivers may be more at home with it, but on automatics I still think its a cleaner design.
Of course, there is the cup holder problem. Those of you readers in the US will know how this is such a big issue for American drivers. Traditionally people in the US blamed poor cup holders as a design flaw while many europeans saw it as a distraction while on the road, but it cannot be denied that it is a feature of importance here. I know on the new 9-3 the same part of the console that held the 9-5′s switches now has another cupholder. Many see the console as the most secure and ergonomic place for the cup holder, and while i may not agree with that statement, i also do not sip coffee while driving. In any case, this may be one of those things that i mentioned apply to saabists and what others regard as quirks… Still it is a thought to consider when designing a car with the US in mind, i distinctly remember one publication here talking about how the 911 finally had cup holders (996 it may have been) and when a consumer publication knocked the old passat for having a flimsy cup holder setup.
Hey guys, look at this DISASTER! lolol
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Saab-900-Turbo-Convt-1-of-a-Kind-Custom-Viggen-like-Lambo-doors-69k-miles_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem20aff931d9QQitemZ140391297497QQptZUSQ5fCarsQ5fTrucks
From the auction…
“…Ejector seat button is a dummy button with vinyl graphic overlay, DOES NOT ACTUALLY EJECT PASSANGER!…”
Hydrogen is used in many buses as a gas in large cylinders and hydrogen can also be turned into a liquid (although this requires more hydrogen. In fact there have been small amounts of converted BMWs that use hydrogen so it is possible. although hydrogen does use more energy it doesn’t need bateries which are bad for the envirnoment, expencive to replace and heavy.
Hydrogen is not the most abundant resource on this planet. In fact, it is very rare, due to it’s reactivity. Preparing hydrogen from e.g. Water, otoh, requires lots of electrical power, not only for the cleavage, but also for compressig/cooling down. This power likewise would presently come from fossil fuels or urane. Calculations seem to show that overall efficiency for producing, distributing and storing the ever-evaporating hydrogen in the cars is worse than with batteries. Further, and quite strangely, fuel cells still pose problems in automotive applications, though it will also be possible to use hydrogen in combustion engines as well.
Great letter Swade and I can’t wait to see what VM has up his sleeve for SAAB. I have another good feeling about this!!!
I know that VM and the crazy-good Swede engineers have a bunch of suprises in store for us.
Cannot wait!
http://automobiles.honda.com/fcx-clarity/
Currently running in cali
also
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ffRagsjSpkE
Yes but in the future with increased demand we will become better and more refined at it and paring it with green power like solar wind ect. will make it even better. Not to mention less environmental impact since we don’t have to drill for it.
Hi Swade,
Excellent letter!
I second most of the opinions. I
Hear hear!!
A very heartfelt letter there Steve. So heartfelt I’m going to have to twitter it up. Big vote for bringing back the centre window switches, and the rest
A letter quite a few of us can stand behind. If the pen (keyboard?) was your sword, you was surely D’Artagnan or Jack Sparrow.
May I just comment about all the “bring back…” sentiments? Maybe Saab should focus more on new ideas instead of bringing back all kinds of old ones?
VM;
Focus on selling cars and making money, everything else is a distraction.
From the heart.
Somewhere in Lenapehoking
New Sweden
John, Charles Springer, Hansel
Mark, where is all that Hydrogen you are talking about???
I haven’t seen none over here.
But you don’t mean water, do you?
Dear Victor Muller,
I’m from Anchorage, Alaska and have owned 8 SAABs. A couple months ago I felt like a family member was dying and that there was going to be a huge emptiness. What was I going to buy?… I thought.
I cannot describe what I like about SAAB so much… maybe it’s the design, the way it drives, that its different than anything else on the road or that it handles Alaska weather like no other car. There was a time when SAABs were everywhere over here.
I like good gas mileage but always thought SAABs were good in that area. I don’t know anyone driving a diesel unless its a trucker driving up the Haul Road to the North Slope. I’m not hung-up on engine technology.
Maybe I’m not the typical SAAB owner (if there is one) but I do know what I like and it’s not a BMW, Audi or a Mercedes.
I look forward to buying my 9th car from your company.
Thank you for your time and much luck and success.
I await delivery of my new SAAB.
Daniel,
from what I’ve seen the NG9-5 Aero seats look vewry much like those 9000 Aero seats, specialy that shoulder “reinforcement”. I can’t tell you if they feel like 9000 ones, but they feel very confortable.
To the Insignia seats; I don’t want no recaro racing seats on my SAAB, they my look sporty, but they are not comfortable (I’ve also sat on that seat) enough to make a 1000km journey.
Although rear window switches end up being on the doors (those passengers dont have control panels to deal with), the front ones make plenty of sense in the cent(er/re) console! Everything else is down there (gear shifter, handbrake, key?, etc…), so why not the windows as well? Let’s keep all those functions to one hand… It feels ‘natural’ to me that way too…
Actually, I believe Saab’s differentiating factory should be great functionality. There will always be more prestigious, faster, better-driving (let’s face it, all Saab has are GM’s platforms) and to many, better-looking cars. So why buy Saab? To me, because it’s the car that does the best what a car is supposed to do.
To me, a car is a means of transportation, a business/work tool, sometimes a mobile office, sometimes a bit of a home away from home, to many it’s also an important part of the family. Not necessairly a racing car, performance machine, record breaker or a work of art to exhibit on a stand and cherish endlessly polishing the delicate chrome moldings. Saabs earn their living the hard way.
This is why Saab needs to focus on thinking outside the box how to make the car even better, more pleasing, relaxing, less distracting to drive. With all the cool features modern features can have, and Saab MUST have, it gets more and more tricky to make them all operable without making the dashboard unintelligible and driver constantly distracted with finding the right control.
I am a bit worried about the 9-5 – it doesn’t strike me as overly well organized as far as the dash is concerned. The original 9-5 and 9-3 (GM2900, not Epsilon) had very clearly laid out dashes with distinct areas for HVAC, audio and other controls and delightfully, reassuringly HUGE buttons. The new one’s dash is a work of art, but looking at it I’d have no idea where to find this or that control. I’d say the current 2007+ 9-3′s interior is much more to my liking, while I abhorred it originally now that I got myself acquainted with it I appreciate the simple brilliance of the layout.
Victor, make sure the Saab museum puts a 900 or 9-3 hatchback and a 1998 9-5 at your disposal and spend a few days driving them to find out how great that interior works for the driver. Next, make sure the upcoming 9-3 has as little buttonry as possible and only as much as necessary at the driver’s very fingertips (and not down under where the ashtray belongs).
Saab seems to have missed the revolution that brought us the iDrive, MMA and all the other fancy display/joystick/touch-screen based systems. They need to urgently catch up and trump the often confusing and overcomplicated systems with something delightfully simple and astonishingly comfortable to use, removing every unnecessary button and control out of the dashboard.
Me,
I agree. Don
I’ve said this before but I’ll say it again. I thinks Saab should have google or apple design a touch screen system for the new Saabs. Have quick keys in the form of real buttons set underneath the screen to easily and qucikly switch between functions. Integrate this with the steering wheel controls for the radio but also make it so you can toggle the controls to control the air con as well. The information of temperature and station/track can be visible in the heads up display.
Nope, no iDrive, MMA or other menus in the car, please! Having to go for a third-level menu to do some simple task – no thanks.
These are very distractive, look ugly, cannot be operated without watching, have modes (which is very bad), fade under the sun, disturb at night, etc. etc. etc.
Th only reason they exist is the wrong fashion trends. Like “Oh, so you don’t have the supercomputer with the touchscreen in your car and LEDs all around? This is sooo 90-ish!”
Actually, these things suck. Really. They are bad.
Look at the airplanes – all switches can be operated without looking at them and have only one function so you always can reach with a hand to a learned place and activate the needed function without distracting. I agree about distinct zones on the dashboard and huge buttons (how about driving in gloves in winter?) – these were good, I’m dissapointed with new dashboard.
The same goes for the analogue/digital indications. When it’s analogue, you can determine what’s going on by less-then-a-second glance. With digital you only see some numbers, and it takes so much more time to read them and analyze. How about reading, say, five parameters in digital simultaneously? With analogue indicators it’s instant.
The primary task when you drive a car is (surprise!) driving. And Saabish and scandinavian also means “form follows function”. When you operate the touchscreen – you HAVE to look at it, and you don’t FEEL it. No pressing, no turning. So you don’t drive – you operate your touchscreen – that’s insane. I’ve got an iPhone, and it’s brilliant, but using the phone primary task is interacting with it, looking at it, interacting with it, not some other major task like driving. I still thing one of the biggest flaws with the iPhone is not having two buttons for answering/hanging the phone. Guess when it’s important?
Michael: 100% true! Form follows function, I want switches that tell me on/off or high/low and no funky “Chichi”. I’ve had my experiences in a BMW and their menu system…when driving 200 km/h I really don’t want to look on a stupid 5” screen to follow some kind of a menu-structure.
My wishes to Mr. Muller for Saab:
- reliability
- performance
- light-weight
- reliability
IMHO BioEthanol deserves a mention. Saab is leading in that field and the second generation fuels are about to be viable, see http://www.novozymes.com/en/MainStructure/PressAndPublications/PressRelease/2010/New+enzymes+turn+waste+into+fuel.htm (2$ a US gallon in 2011).
Being “greenish” and still have fun driving? That should be a killer-app…
What more do you control when you are driving then the air con and tracks? with the integrated steering wheel controls means you can control the phone, track, volume and temp all from the wheel. With the new blu tooth systems you can control your phone through the car. Having the track and air con info in the heads up display means that you don’t take your eyes off the road. The screen would provide excellent nav which you shouldn’t be fiddling around with anyways while driving. I just fail to see how it would make it harder to use? all the key functions would be done by buttons so you dont have to take your eyes of the wheel and the info would be displayed on the heads up display so you don’t take your eyes off the road…..
I respectfully disagree. Basic functions should be actually accessible from the wheel, either on the wheel or stalks – except for the HVAC, I see little point in moving it out of the centre console.
But the more complex functions, such as fiddling with the audio setting, navigation, phone etc. do require looking whatever you can say. Those are much better operated via screen and multi-level menus. I really can live without separate buttons for AM/FM or navigation controls, or even the more complicated HVAC settings. Again, maybe I have limited mental faculties, but I do need to look at the controls and display while doing that anyway.
I would agree with TGX4776 in principle – touchscreen, or just screen with buttons around it with functions relevant to what is currently on display + allow to cycle through the most important ones via wheel. And a second HUD in the middle to display the most important “auxilliary” function – let’s say you reach down for the HVAC dial and get an instant readout of how high/low you set the temperature w/o looking at the HVAC display.
BTW, you can do “menus” the right and wrong way. For one, I don’t understand the infatuation with Nokias. Their menus are always very complicated, and phones have twice as many buttons as I’d need. I’ve had a Ericssons before going to Nokia and I was OK with one or two buttons – the most intuitive function was ALWAYS at the fingertip, I just had to remember the number of clicks and could really operate the phone almost w/o looking. Again, Swedes do it better than Finns (or anybody else, for that matter)
Why go to Apple if you can go round the corner (not quite, Sony Ericsson is now in London, but still) plus reward the relationship mutually giving S-E the much-needed publicity.
*****
I would love to know your opinion of the new 9-5′s, current 9-3′s and their predecessor’s interior layouts, btw, let’s not get worked up over iDrive, it’s not a BMW site
decent letter,
some points:
1] automatic gearbox equation and how far away is DSG?
2] hirsch options worldwide availability asap
3] make a decent attempt at sales service in australia or give it away until product range inmproves
I used to drive a MY08 9-3 1.8t SC. These days I roll in a 1997 9000 CSE 2.3T. I absolutely love the hatch! Rear window never gets dirty. My 9-3 would require about 10 or 20 minutes (depending on the road) to completely block my rear view because of its combishaped behind.
The window switches is something I have not adapted quite to yet. But I did not adapt to the 9-3′s either. I rarely use them.
The argument that “my other car does things differently” doesn’t quite fly with me. We would soon ask for the ignition key to be moved as well in that case. My 9000′s only fault is its wrong key placement. Someone decided it would look better up behind the steering wheel!
Oh… The leather seats in my 9000 features an embossed image of the old airplane logo. Very cool and I want that in my new 9-5 too!
TGX4776, Bravada, I’d say I agree with you mostly. What I’m talking about is not overusing the touchscreens (like not having the answer button on iPhone), leaving the important functions to buttons. Of course, navigation will do well on the screen, but having to go in menu to activate seat heaters like in Audi?
And, by the way, look at that: (MMI)
So they’ve got rid of function buttons, but now they’ve got lots of other buttons to operate MMI which change their functions! Wow, what an improvement! What’s that for?
Of course, maybe it’s about designing good and bad menus (agree about Nokias and SE’s), but still. Maybe I fear they will not make it good enough – because there’s still not a single car where the screen interface is convenient or even looks good enough.
*****
I haven’t sit in the new 9-5, so I can only tell by photos.
I’ve got the previous 9-5 (pre-Dame-Edna), and I’m pretty happy with all those buttons, everything is in its place, except for I’d prefer having HVAC controls on the top of console as I operate them quite often, but that’s just me.
Oh, I see with tend to agree, the MMI is just bad with all those buttons where you have to turn your head completely away from the road to find the right one. I am thinking a single joystick/mouse/dial thing like in the newer BMWs, Lexii or Jags. Or actually, two buttons in the wheel – if they’re enough to operate the complex smartphones, they’ll be enough to operate a car.
I believe the old 9-5 is on the border of how many buttons you can put in the car’s dash for me.
As concerns seat heating/ventillation, they should be located somewhere near the seats, as is logical. Just like side mirror controls close to the mirror, window switches near the windows (I need to look down everytime when I have to reach for the window switch in any GM Europe car of that era, plus Saab require hand-twisting excercises, this is not good).
The more I think of it, the more important it would be to place a fast-reacting display either somewhere up in the dash, or as a HUD, to provide instant response to every control you touch. This way you could indeed learn to do it without looking, as even if you went wrong, you’d be promted and could correct your selection. I don’t think I’ve seen this for ALL controls in any car so far, but I might be wrong.
Hear here, Steven. Very nice letter.
It doesn’t make a lot sense that the discussion about this letter about Saab’s future focus on a such unimportant detail as the window switches. But anyway, I also has a view on the subject
Since we nowdays have AC in our cars we probably don’t open the window for ventilation. The reason for opening the window is usually for reaching something or talking to a person outside the car. Having to look in the opposite direction to find the window switches between the seats makes no sense. Put the switches in the door please!
And bring back the old logo: http://www.flickr.com/photos/31019817@N02/4292485974/in/pool-saab
(The griffin in the current logo has nothing to do with Saab. It came to Saab-Scania from Scania-Vabis. http://www.saabhistory.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2006/11/scania-vabis_first_logo_small.JPG )
So i just had a nice long smoke with my pipe and want to clarify things here
I absolutely loved the simplicity of my C900′s dash. nice and driver focused, no distractions, simple. That is my idea of the perfect dash.
However, in order to generate sales we need to also be cutting edge technologically and for Saab it should also be a safety aspect as well. When magazines review cars they also review features…. If we skimp on features and stick with an older dash design because we are comfortable with it or it’s more simple then when it comes down to reviews they will say “For x amount of (your currency here) you can get all these cool features to wow friends and make your coworkers envious…. we think it’s worth it.”
What Saab needs to do is create a system that has a lot of the bells and whistles that impress but that are essential to driving and safety. The system should also be the easiest and most logical design. BMW owners should get in and go wow…… why did I buy a BMW? This is easy and simple to control and looks more elegant.
Secondly since this system will be highly customizable you need an easy way to switch between drivers. When the car turns off and the driver gets out it should automatically revert to a standard setting. Upon starting the vehicle you should just have to select from a simple menu who you are and everything automatically sets up for you like seat positions, mirror positions, personal settings, favorite station, temperature settings, ect.
It should also be intelligent. For example. you get in the car and the local weather is 0 degrees then it turns on the heat and heated seats/steering wheel. However if it is 75F then it turnes on air and the like. You get the picture. Same for other functions.
Anyways thats just my two cents worth.
Very good letter !
I really hope that the new Saab 9-5 Sport Combi will have 7-seats as an option for us with a bit bigger families. I
Good letter Swade. I Like the comments about the analogue clock too. Although it wasn’t with the instruments like earlier cars, the NG900′s clock wasn’t too bad. You could read it out of the corner of your eye. Digital clocks in the SID are much harder, especially if you’re missing some pixels! I prefer the button dash too, but some sort of hybrid idea might be good, with the main functions on three large buttons and some secondary buttons too. As to an iconic model, I’m firmly of the mind that that should be Saab’s mid sized model. A 9-3/900 replacement that’s a tribute to C900s/99s of old is really the best way to go. That model was iconic once and it can be again. Hatch variants are a prerequisite.
As to windows switches, they definitely belong in the console. If a humble Aussie Ford Falcon can have them where Saab traditionally had them, Saab can certainly move them. No more GM excuses. BTW no more thinly disguised GM steering wheels either. They might look okay on a Vauxhall, Opel or even a Buick, but on a Saab they stick out like the proverbial dog’s appendages.
No disaster.
9-4x. Priority should be placed on developing the crossover line-up and compete with the BMW and Range Rover. I can’t wait to get the 9-4x.
Did anyone mention the 9-X Air?
I want it! Soon!
Neither can my wife. 9-4X needs good mpg.
Dear Victor,
I just would like to share few of my toughts with you.
If you think seriously targeting Audi and other premium cars like your competition, then make the NEW 9-3 pure SAAB premium car Front-engine longitudinally-mounted / Front-wheel drive + XWD and in the future make also third generation 9-5 in that concept.
Because GM had ruined SAAB by only giving them cheap OPEL PLATFORMS so that SAAB became a better OPEL and alternative to VW Passat or Toyota Camry.
SAAB was a SAAB with 99 and C900.
Nice one Steve, I like the line We’re a picky bunch and we don’t always make sense, I think that sums up the typical Saab owner, as you know I work for a car manufacturer, I could lease new cars at attractive rates but still drive a 10 year old 9-5,
despite the fact that I have spent a huge amount of money on it during the last few months I cannot bring myself to sell it or worse change to another brand, although it has come close recently! to make matters worse I give up some free time as a Director of the owners club in the Uk and spend several hours writing a coloumn for the club magazine, see Robins Review in Driver, I am sure there is a cure for this but do I want it?
Very well said Swade.
One other request for the future, however. PLEASE make manual transmissions available as an option across the ENTIRE line of cars…and in ALL markets.
There many of us in the US who won’t drive anything but a stick, and far too many manufacturers do not offer manual transmissions on cars in the US, but DO have them available on the same models in other parts of the world.
Also remember, manual transmission cars usually get better fuel mileage than automatic transmission cars. And that makes everyone happy.
Another great Open Letter Swade!
Swedish eccentricity + Dutch lunacy = Scandinavian automotive heaven.
Michael & Bravada…I do need to clear some things up about the Audi MMI system.
ALL functions available via the center console mounted MMI system are also available through steering wheel mounted buttons & rotary dials (only 4), and a much simpler SECONDARY MMI display is positioned between the speedo & tach. Audi do not want drivers to be using the main MMI display & controls either. They realize that it is too distracting while in motion.
And Michael, I don
Terrific read! Nothing to add….. good times ahead
Well said, Swade. It’s good to know that VM is probably listening.
Oh I am aware of that, for the record, it’s just that if the operation of the system was so smooth and simple, why the need for the auxilliary buttons at all? I much prefer the BMW or Jaguar systems without the multitude of buttonry. If there’s a button or dial on the dash, it needs to be there for a reason – everything else should be activated by either steering wheel or stalk controls.
I don’t like the central display for computer / menu readouts, it is, as mentioned, small, and requires total refocusing of the driver’s eyesight. I much prefer an HUD or a solution similar to (God save me from your wrath!) the one in the Toyota Yaris (also found in the older 9-3 dash!)
PS. I think the heated seats were a figurative example rather than a de facto one.
Here’s an idea:
Advanced profiling, with x number of presets. But instead (or in addition to) of advanced menus in the car, create a connectivity via USB/Bluetooth and a software for PC/Mac in which you can fine tune all the functions. Sit with other drivers around the coffee table and design your profiles, and when done upload to the car and ready for take off.
YOU STOLE MY SECRET TRUMP IDEA!!!
Actually, I was thinking about it since I saw that:
http://europe.saabexpressions.com/Archive/Images/saabeu_Products/250X250/604207-00.jpg
The crudeness of the accessory notwithstanding, I was thinking, what’s the point of the car “key” once it’s no longer needed to directly unlock the car and turn on the ignition. Well, the key fob will hold plenty of GBs of info, not only can you fiddle with particular settings “offline”, or actually “online” logging on to the Saab site (subscription feature FTW!), but also upload your route, consumption, “SID” messages to consult with your garage, download updates for Nav maps and other software, or even music for your hard drive.
Some functions better to be fiddled with offline would include in-car phone book – something frustrating to do in the car, using car controls.
2] hirsch options worldwide availability asap
Heard that this wasn’t going to happen most likely for the US…
“Did some deep dives with them before while under GM and there were lot’s of issues about homologation of their performance products which ended up being the reason we didn’t do it.”
Roy
Oh you don’t know how wrong you are. What is the most logical placement in the following scenarios:
1. You are reaching for something outside the car while driving(parking ticket or whatever). Since the buttons are located in the door you first have to wind the windows down and then reach for the “objective”.
2. Since the buttons are located in close proximity to the gear lever you don’t have to perform any unnatural movements and you can reach for the “objective” at the same time with you’re other hand.
I agree with the fact that systems should be simple. Believe me, I’m all for it. I think electronics in cars, other than engine & stability/driving management have gotten out of hand. Probably the WORST example is certain cars these days that back-park themselves. My feeling is that if you’re such an incompetent driver that you can’t park a car yourself, then you shouldn’t have a driver
So to summarize the oh so crucial window switch debate (gotta love that we can indulge in this sort of trivia nowadays!):
No particularly strong arguments have been raised by either side. Window switch placing seems purely a matter of personal taste. Some historical reasons have been named in favour of the center console, but they don’t resonate with me. This is probably because all the Saabs I knew when growing up had manual windows. And I can assure you that the cranks were not on the console!
Anyway, Saab should not be a company that does things a certain way because “that’s how it’s always been done”. Saab should place the switches where it is most practical and logical. To me, that would be by the window, for at least two reasons:
1) It’s more intuitive. The window controls belong next to the window, in the same way that the seat controls are on the actual seat.
2) The center console is cluttered enough anyway. (Yes, cupholders are indispensable!)
As for it being easier to find console switches with the hand without looking, I disagree. On my VW Golf, the switches are at the front end of the door-side armrest, just where the hand rests naturally. (The armrest itself is unfortunately a bit too low to be useful while driving, you can’t reach the wheel while resting the elbow there – one of the few gripes I have with that car. But that’s another story.) On the Volvo V70s I often drive at work, the placing is about the same, if I recall correctly. My brother’s MG on the other hand has the switches on the console, and they are always hopeless to find. Maybe if you could have groped your way down along the gearshift to locate them, it would have been easier, but the switches are placed further to the back.
So to summarize the oh so crucial window switch debate (gotta love that we can indulge in this sort of trivia nowadays!):
No particularly strong arguments have been raised by either side. Window switch placing seems purely a matter of personal taste. Some historical reasons have been named in favour of the center console, but they don’t resonate with me. This is probably because all the Saabs I knew when growing up had manual windows. And I can assure you that the cranks were not on the console!
Anyway, Saab should not be a company that does things a certain way because “that’s how it’s always been done”. Saab should place the switches where it is most practical and logical. To me, that would be by the window, for at least two reasons:
1) It’s more intuitive. The window controls belong next to the window, in the same way that the seat controls are on the actual seat.
2) The center console is cluttered enough anyway. (Yes, cupholders are indispensable!)
As for it being easier to find console switches with the hand without looking, I disagree. On my VW Golf, the switches are at the front end of the door-side armrest, just where the hand rests naturally. (The armrest itself is unfortunately a bit too low to be useful while driving, you can’t reach the wheel while resting the elbow there – one of the few gripes I have with that car. But that’s another story.) On the Volvo V70s I often drive at work, the placing is about the same, if I recall correctly. My brother’s MG on the other hand has the switches on the console, and they are always hopeless to find. Maybe if you could have groped your way down along the gearshift to locate them, it would have been easier, but the switches are placed further to the back.
So to summarize the oh so crucial window switch debate (gotta love that we can indulge in this sort of trivia nowadays!):
No particularly strong arguments have been raised by either side. Window switch placing seems purely a matter of personal taste. Some historical reasons have been named in favour of the center console, but they don’t resonate with me. This is probably because all the Saabs I knew when growing up had manual windows. And I can assure you that the cranks were not on the console!
Anyway, Saab should not be a company that does things a certain way because “that’s how it’s always been done”. Saab should place the switches where it is most practical and logical. To me, that would be by the window, for at least two reasons:
1) It’s more intuitive. The window controls belong next to the window, in the same way that the seat controls are on the actual seat.
2) The center console is cluttered enough anyway. (Yes, cupholders are indispensable!)
As for it being easier to find console switches with the hand without looking, I disagree. On my VW Golf, the switches are at the front end of the door-side armrest, just where the hand rests naturally. (The armrest itself is unfortunately a bit too low to be useful while driving, you can’t reach the wheel while resting the elbow there – one of the few gripes I have with that car. But that’s another story.) On the Volvo V70s I often drive at work, the placing is about the same, if I recall correctly. My brother’s MG on the other hand has the switches on the console, and they are always hopeless to find. Maybe if you could have groped your way down along the gearshift to locate them, it would have been easier, but the switches are placed further to the back.
So to summarize the oh so crucial window switch debate (gotta love that we can indulge in this sort of trivia nowadays!):
No particularly strong arguments have been raised by either side. Window switch placing seems purely a matter of personal taste. Some historical reasons have been named in favour of the center console, but they don’t resonate with me. This is probably because all the Saabs I knew when growing up had manual windows. And I can assure you that the cranks were not on the console!
Anyway, Saab should not be a company that does things a certain way because “that’s how it’s always been done”. Saab should place the switches where it is most practical and logical. To me, that would be by the window, for at least two reasons:
1) It’s more intuitive. The window controls belong next to the window, in the same way that the seat controls are on the actual seat.
2) The center console is cluttered enough anyway. (Yes, cupholders are indispensable!)
As for it being easier to find console switches with the hand without looking, I disagree. On my VW Golf, the switches are at the front end of the door-side armrest, just where the hand rests naturally. (The armrest itself is unfortunately a bit too low to be useful while driving, you can’t reach the wheel while resting the elbow there – one of the few gripes I have with that car. But that’s another story.) On the Volvo V70s I often drive at work, the placing is about the same, if I recall correctly. My brother’s MG on the other hand has the switches on the console, and they are always hopeless to find. Maybe if you could have groped your way down along the gearshift to locate them, it would have been easier, but the switches are placed further to the back.
So to summarize the oh so crucial window switch debate (gotta love that we can indulge in this sort of trivia nowadays!):
No particularly strong arguments have been raised by either side. Window switch placing seems purely a matter of personal taste. Some historical reasons have been named in favour of the center console, but they don’t resonate with me. This is probably because all the Saabs I knew when growing up had manual windows. And I can assure you that the cranks were not on the console!
Anyway, Saab should not be a company that does things a certain way because “that’s how it’s always been done”. Saab should place the switches where it is most practical and logical. To me, that would be by the window, for at least two reasons:
1) It’s more intuitive. The window controls belong next to the window, in the same way that the seat controls are on the actual seat.
2) The center console is cluttered enough anyway. (Yes, cupholders are indispensable!)
As for it being easier to find console switches with the hand without looking, I disagree. On my VW Golf, the switches are at the front end of the door-side armrest, just where the hand rests naturally. (The armrest itself is unfortunately a bit too low to be useful while driving, you can’t reach the wheel while resting the elbow there – one of the few gripes I have with that car. But that’s another story.) On the Volvo V70s I often drive at work, the placing is about the same, if I recall correctly. My brother’s MG on the other hand has the switches on the console, and they are always hopeless to find. Maybe if you could have groped your way down along the gearshift to locate them, it would have been easier, but the switches are placed further to the back.
Right now stuck in a traffic jam
i can report that i have seen 3-5 car trailers on this trip packed with brand new 9-e converts. That’s 40 cars, heading north (ie _to_ Sweden)! Seems as if Saab still has to utilize Opel’s distribution channels.
Alternative propulsion: i am rather des illusioned (and facts/calculations based). Maybe my present preference for batteries is solely based on optimism with respect to basic research. If we cannot get a ten-fold increase in energy density,i believe we will be throat deep in the err litter.
Dashboard: i have heard that there are studies that give indication that having more, but function-specific buttons is better than context buttons, and i bet also better than touch screens (trying to use TomTom on my iphone, boy, instrument flying rules apply:-))
9-e = 9-3 sorry
still stuck, getting hungry…
Saabdude , you have 03 9-5 and and an 08 9-5 but you got rid of the 08??
Nicely put, Swade! I’m with you except for the window switches – they make more sense to me on the door than buried with all the other buttons at the centre console.
x2 on manual transmissions. I’m really hoping a potential 9-5 customer will at least have the OPTION to order a 9-5 from the factory with a manual transmission
Window switches between the seats, door pull handle on the dash, handbrake in the ceiling…. now we’re talking.
We must have a lot of -03+ 9-3 owners here, there is so much window switch resistance
Sadly…yes.
The ’08 was returned off lease on 29 December 2009. I own the ’03.
At the time, it was far from clear if SAAB would survive, and I couldn’t take the chance of buying the ’08 car from GMAC, and then not having a SAAB dealer around to have it serviced. And I did have a recurring front suspension bushing problem with the car. Like ALL the bushings had been replaced (under warranty) at least once
Reading through all this, I’m now convinced that the window switches need to be on the door. Intuitively, the switch should be where the action is. Electronically, there is far less wiring length required to the lift motor. And from a simplicity standpoint, reaching to the middle, where other stuff is, and not looking, it’s easier to find the right switch on the door without taking eyes off the road.
And finally, from the U.S. cupholder standpoint, to many chances for spills when groping for a switch around a full cup of coffee.
And if we eliminate the GAS PEDAL all together…no SAAB will ever suffer from “unintended acceleration”!
Of course INTENDED acceleration might be a bit dodgey…but what the heck…at least we’ll all be saved from ourselves.
Well written Swade !!
I miss a thing or two,
Please introduce more coiours at once dont wait, the 9-5 will look fantastic in red and dark blue, please please…
Make the interior in light colours the german makers are colur blind.
Dare to be different and exclusive !!!
SAAB UP !
That was funny!! You just made my day a little brighter my friend, thank you!
)
Do you drive a TVR? hehehe
Yes indeed, another great articulation of key considerations but I’ll probably most remember this post for “Design, Design, Design” where design includes the way functions and systems are engineered.
Integration of interfaces and systems in a automobile is a real key to creating something different and it is an area where Saab can excel.
I found commenters examples very interesting. In other forums I’ve commented on HVAC systems on Saabs. I recall comparing the ACC in the current 9-5s (before the harmonization with the 9-3) vs. the ACC in the 9-3 prior to 2007 when they went from buttons to knobs in 2007. I liked the 9-5 design the most.
For one, you could see the system settings very clearly on the ACC display in the 9-5. And, the buttons were the right size on the 9-5. Given the use of Auto, the biggest buttons that could be operated with mittens were the temperature control (one for up, another for down).
While you can get used to almost anyting, I thought the 9-3 ACC was a step back from what was learned with the 9-5. Just goes to show that once you have the right design, there are some underlying attributes to stick with until new technology or application of technology finally makes them obsolete. And that doesn’t usually happen with underlying principles.
For the record, the central placement of window switches probably has more to do with the Opel legacy of the GM2900 platform, and the fact that Opel desperately tried to “spacewrap” a rather narrow and short chassis with a body that would keep up with the rapidly growing intermediate class, while keeping development at minimal cost.
The switches in the Vectra B and Omega B (or Saturn L-Series for our American readers, Saab 9-5′s GM2902 platform-mate) are around the shifter, and don’t require bone-breaking excercises to operate, but still, every time I reached for them I had to look down and check whether I am opening the front or rear window.
Central placement of window switches in the 900 NG, ’98-02 9-3 and the first 9-5 is a part of the GM legacy.
My 9000 CSE has the switches in the middle too… Nothing Opel about that car AFAIK.
On the positive side, I would have to say that it is a plus that I can ask my wife / co-pilot to control the windows. There’s no reason why I should mess with that myself.
But intuitive it isn’t. Especially combined with the “lock” button located straight above the window buttonm I want to reach.
How about a compromise? Let the driver side door have a single button for its window, and keep the main panel in the middle? Can’t get more intuitive than that!
I am tempted to rebutt that it is a Type Four legacy issue, but then I can’t remember where Croma and Thema had them… The 164 had them on the door handles, but it’s a later development, and I only remember the later-MYs interior thereof…
Anyhow, wherever the 900 Classic had them would resolve the issue. But still, whether central was Saab idea or they just didn’t care and took over from platforms they were given, it’s just a bad location and legacy of the 1980s or before, when European automakers had no idea where to put this bunch of four ugly buttons.
The solution you propose can be found in e.g. the Volvo S/V40 and looks awful and is clumsy. I’d say one could repeat the driver’s switch somewhere beyond sight where there is no mistaking when not looking, but the cluster of four needs to be within the line of sight.
Seriously? No disaster? Did you overlook the Lambo doors?
I propose we put stereo controls on the speakers…..
Agree with every word, Steven.
Ok, my comment’s a bit late. But we are slightly overworked. Reason: Saab. (Preparing a direct marketing camaign for some German Saab dealers. Can tell you more about it next week.)
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Time is running very fast. We all should help to transform the positive energy of Saab support into some concrete results during the next months. Lots of work for everyone involved. Not easy.
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Let’s work together to ensure that 2010 will not become some kind of “lost year” for Saab. This case deserves our very best.
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For the record on window switch placement.
My 1978 99T & 1980 900T 3-doors had manual crank windows, but power windows were an option by 1980. The switches were placed in the dashboard on either side of the cigar lighter.
At a later date, I purchased a 1984 900T 3-door as a commuter car, and by 1984, the switches were moved to the center console, where they stayed through the entire 900 & 9000 model range. The link below, shows a sales brochure from 1983 with the window switches on the dash, as I explained above.
http://www.saabcentral.com/features/saab_900/saab_brochures/features_1983brochure_16.htm
So I hope this answers the question of window switch placement. It started LONG before GM was on the scene. And the 9000 was developed in conjunction with Fiat, Lancia & Alfa…no GM DNA here either.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_Four_chassis
I propose we put stereo controls on the speakers…..
LOL! Nice.
Which speakers? I’ve got 6 in my 9-3!
As to window switches, I just want them in the same place as my 1984 C900 turbo, my 1997 NG900S Talladega and my 1999 OG9-3 Monte Carlo. That’s what I’ve gotten used to over the past sixteen years. I guess they could get all retro and make switches like the 99′s hand crank lever. Push it one way to open and the other way to close. That might work.
Only a Saab community can turn an open letter into a discussion about the placement of window switches…
Anoraks. That’s who we are.
The discourse on dome light wattage will begin in five minutes…please have your thoughts ready.
Nice letter Swade.
Welcome VM.
About dash & controls:
I remember in my father’s ’83 900, I appreciated courtesy lamp behind the mirror so it was not blinding you at night. I appreciated how easy was reaching same courtesy lamp switch by just putting your hand on the hand-brake. Clever details.
But changes happens.
Today I appreciate the lcd display of my MY2006 9-3 SH put far of my eyes and near of my line-of-sight when driving.
For future,
I believe SAAB designers and engineers will be able to collect SAAB heritage and design new dashes and new controls layout to keep all new functions under a simple, safe and functional form.
Personally, I find using tactile feedbacks help drive safety.
Just my two cents.
I’m in the windows on the door camp. I regularly drive old S40s and they have them in the middle and I’m not such a fan. But I’m not pushed. I’m more concerned about the switches for the boot/fuelcap – in all the cars I’ve driven – I’ve yet to find an ideal location. The lower half of the door just always feels wrong. Surely Saab can address this with like someone said – a cool switch in the ceiling or on the dash under the lights area. I never feel ‘satisfied’ with these buttons… Which is an odd thing to say.
Nice letter Swade.
As for features that should be mandatory for all Saabs: scissor doors and twin turbo V10 engines. Its time to rock.
Window switches etc. may be little things, but little by little GM made Saab use more generic Opel/Vauxhall items, and what made a Saab a ‘Saab’ progressively was diluted. Time for that trend to change. A lot of ‘little things’ can end up being quite substantial.
Im all for standardizing THE Saab cockpit of the present and future. Even though Im driving 93SSs mostly presently, my vote would be for a return to console switches. Simplicity, number of switches needed, no difference between R&LHD, harder to get soaked, codriver able to control all windows are the major reasons.
Next, the focus has to be on upgrading interior materials to higher-end German and Japanese standards. Lack of ventilated leather seats in $30K+ 93 Aeros is an outrage, when many $20K cars have them. Its one of the only things that I truly hate about my turbodiesel SS, especially when its over 22C/72F. A cab driver bead-thing cures the problem, but its embarrassing and needs to be inside the seat. Door panels need an upgrade. So do dash panels. NO more cheap-looking soft-touch crap. Audio systems need to be easily upgradable. GPS/navigation systems should be able to be plug-in, but integrated. They arent needed by every driver, all of the time. Even though I cant stand ‘em, some people cant function without them. Maybe a solution is what MB does in some of their higher-end instroclusters…Perfectly normal-looking analog gages that are on a high-pixel LCD.
US diesel certification is a no-brainer. No 50YO wants to be driving a VW Anything. And not everybody aspires to MB or BMW or Audi either.
Bringing the concept electric rear-drive to market would rock. Surely Haldex is already all over it.
But getting all your designers and engineers together in the museum does sound like a great idea VM.
Another window and switch location vote: We like them all in the center console. Aside from our position being that it seems logical and “right” to us… we currently own 5 Saabs – we have owned 6 in total. We will buy new Saabs again.
On the basis of the fact that we switch off cars routinely – We would like for the ignition, window switches, courtesy light switch, etc. to be (relatively) in the same place in each of our Saabs.
Having jumped from our 94 to 02 today – the courtesy light having moved caused me one of those “where did the switch go?” moments. I’ll adapt to the 02 and switch back and have the reverse problem in a few days.
Just a preference but as Saab owners who will NOT stop buying Saabs, I would hope that matters to someone even though it is a bit of a whim and I don’t expect Saab to cater to every one of our whims.
I hope Victor takes a look as his dealerships.
I had a Saab 9-5 recall letter today (diesel fuel pipe issue) and I tried to get my car booked-in at the nearest dealership. They passed me around from department to department, then after 10 minutes hung-up on me. Second call got me another 10 minutes of nothing.
Sent an email to the address on the letter. Nothing back.
Finished up ringing the UK MD’s secretary. They promised to get the dealer to ring me back, although in truth I don’t have much confidence in this dealer having seen their emphasis on Chrysler.
I don’t fancy a long drive to another dealer and the inevitable booking -in all day for what I suspect is a 15 minute job!
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