Saab ad competition – vote for your winner!

FINAL CHANCE FOR VOTING, WHICH CLOSES AT 7PM AUSSIE DST TODAY.

IF YOU HAVEN’T VOTED YET, NOW’S THE TIME. AND PLEASE PASS THE WORD ALONG TO GET AS MANY PEOPLE VOTING AS POSSIBLE.

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It’s time to vote for the winners of the Saab (unofficial) ad competition. If you haven’t read it yet, please check out the background information on the selection of these finalists. If you have read it, then it’s time to review the finalists and select your winner.

You get one vote and one vote only, so make your selection carefully and vote for your favourite. Prizes will be awarded for first, second and third place.

Here are your finalists. Click to enlarge. The poll is below.

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#1 – Beauty comes from the inside. Why settle for that? – The only series selected. View at Flickr.

#2 – With great power comes great responsibility – showing Saab’s new low-emissions TTiD Saab 9-3 range. View at Flickr.

#3 – The relentless pursuit of…. common sense – part of a series cleverly using slogans from other companies to highlight Saab strengths. View at Flickr.

#4 – Regular 9-5 getting you down? You need ours – a clever play on words and a good story as well. View at Flickr.

#5 – People who drive a Saab usually buy one…. and a second… and a third – how many times have we said this? And the pictures bring it to life. View at Flickr.

#6 – The latest addition to great Scandinavian design – ties in to the idea of Saab being Scandinavian as a brand emphasis. View at Flickr.

#7 – Unusual – one of a group of 7, all of which were judged individually and all of which were quite clever. View at Flickr.

#8 – Less = Moore – Execution needs tidying up, but the judges liked the story, which had a Saab Vs likeness. View at Flickr.

#9 – Logic will get you from A to B – Simple, clean with an engaging line of thought. View at Flickr.

#10 – Love at first sight isn’t everything – a good educational ad stating some facts about the product. View at Flickr.

#11 – It’s all in the details – again, representing a series of similar ads that stood well on their own. View at Flickr.

#12 – Omnipresent – representing a series of 4 ads that stood well on their own. View at Flickr.

#13 – Four seasons, Four wheels, Four elements, Four letters – The only one without a true car image but a great layout and narrative. Interestingly, the judges preferred this earlier layout to an updated one. View at Flickr.

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The poll

You have your finalists. The poll will remain for two days. Please cast your vote and pass this link on to all of your Saab friends so they can place a vote as well.

Saab (unofficial) ad competition

  • With great power comes great responsibility (9%, 117 Votes)
  • UnUsual (7%, 93 Votes)
  • The relentless pursuit of... common sense (3%, 40 Votes)
  • Regular 9-5 getting you down? (10%, 142 Votes)
  • People who test drive a Saab usually buy one... (19%, 254 Votes)
  • Omnipresent (2%, 31 Votes)
  • Love at first sight isn't everything (2%, 32 Votes)
  • Logic will get you from A to B (5%, 66 Votes)
  • Less = Moore (2%, 31 Votes)
  • It's in the details (4%, 53 Votes)
  • Great Scandinavian design (7%, 101 Votes)
  • Four seasons, Four wheels, Four Elements, Four letters (25%, 347 Votes)
  • Beauty comes from the inside.... (5%, 67 Votes)

Total Voters: 1,369

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matsvbg
Guest
matsvbg
5 years 9 months ago

1, 3, 4 and 7 are my favorites. #3 got my vote.

2natw
Guest
2natw
5 years 9 months ago

In #3, was the car on the left a SAAB? It sure didn’t look right to me….

x
Guest
x
5 years 9 months ago

This was NOT easy – all are great ads and beat most official ads easy. I’ll have to think it over some more . . .

laurent
Guest
laurent
5 years 9 months ago

All ads are good,
most are great,
and some are far better than the original SAAB ad’s,

SAAB Marketing, take notes ! 😉

Hans H
Guest
Hans H
5 years 9 months ago

I voted for “With great power comes great responsibility”.

“Less is more” and “Logic will get you from A to B…” were also favourites, but I had to pick just one.

Perry
Guest
Perry
5 years 9 months ago

Really impressive work! Both by the entrants and the judges. Must have been tough decisions!

Not easy to choose a winner…I must think for a while..

res
Guest
res
5 years 9 months ago

I think the ads deserve some higher res pictures….. it is not even possible to make out the text in some of them!

CraigSu
Guest
CraigSu
5 years 9 months ago

Agreed. The inability to read the ad text on several of these renders them incapable of being properly judged.

Börjesson
Guest
Börjesson
5 years 9 months ago

Instead of just clicking each picture, try using the right mouse button and choosing “Open link in new window”. (That’s Firefox, but I expect there is an equivalent in other browsers.) For most of the ads, you get a bigger version that way.

Smithy
Guest
5 years 9 months ago

I’ll go with Hans!

Spider-Man is the deal.

Bravada
Guest
5 years 9 months ago

My deep kudos to the jury – you must have spent quite a bit of time choosing those. But, may I say, this is really a premier selection – not because the ones not chosen were worse (I believe there were many more which could make the cut, it must have been really tough to choose!) but because this selection could just as well appear in print and get non-Saaby awards each! Well, shouldn’t be saying that of one particular entry, but anyway…

Congratulations everybody!

PS. I am keeping fingers crossed for no. 13 to prove lucky to a certain entrant 😉

benrp
Guest
benrp
5 years 9 months ago

1,5 and 13 are my faverites but all are great. Maybe as a bonus the winners could be published as an actual Saab advertisment, I hear Swade has some contacts at Saab. 😉

Tomas TL1000R
Guest
Tomas TL1000R
5 years 9 months ago
Have to think it over a little bit longer. A reflection: What I want from an add is more information than a good picture, to combine that (which is not that easy) I proberbly will choose ad nr: 10. It´s not the hottest one to look at, but the message is very good and appeals to me. I like the text and the fact that you can stop at it and read it for a while like an article. The perpose is to capture the reader for as long time as possible to make your point and it does to… Read more »
Tomas TL1000R
Guest
Tomas TL1000R
5 years 9 months ago

As a Saab driver I go my own way. I´m the only one thinking of the 10 ad therefor I put my vote for it. Why, because first impession last and I have not surreptitiously looked at the position before voting.

Dave
Guest
Dave
5 years 9 months ago

I voted for 13. It’s a smart add. And there are no cars in the picture which I think is original.

I was also thinking of voting for the 5th add cause I thought it might bring back some nostalgia to the old Saab drivers who changed to another brand.

Me
Guest
Me
5 years 9 months ago

My vote goes to #11
Is the most similar to my entries 😉

Rtom
Guest
Rtom
5 years 9 months ago

You can just feel the Saab spirit behind these great ads!

Each ad has it’s own purpose and would be suitable in their own respective marketing campaigns.

2, 5, 6, & 13 are my personal favourites. Too bad we can only pick one 🙁

logan
Guest
logan
5 years 9 months ago

These are great. My vote goes to “It’s in the details.” Good play on Saab’s roots.

Wulf
Guest
Wulf
5 years 9 months ago

#6 Scandinavian design with #13 a close second. #6 tells the story of the ad without the need to read the text. Brilliant! #13 because it is different than any other regular car ad but interesting enough to draw you in and read it.

Tim Caines
Guest
Tim Caines
5 years 9 months ago

I’ve voted for no.4 – definitely the best!

LG Aero
Guest
LG Aero
5 years 9 months ago

Great work and a difficult decision. I chose #5 because if reflects my reality !

As a US (Saab’s largest Market) customer , there was agreat irony in the ads for the ttid Diesel models. No where on our horizon.

Urge your friends to vote, particularly if they are NOT Saab owners. After all most people who read a Saab ad are in that category.

Smithy
Guest
5 years 9 months ago

Take a peek on this Swade: http://www.teknikensvarld.se/nyheter/101217-framtidens-saab/index.xml

Run a GTranslate, I’m not in position to translate right now.

Talladegan
Guest
Talladegan
5 years 9 months ago

Well I’m really pleased to have made the final cut with one of mine. Interesting that the one that got through is my very first effort too.

Best of luck to all entrants…what a great set of ads to choose from!

Swade this has been a really great idea!

monte03
Guest
monte03
5 years 9 months ago

off topic,

The Spyker stock is up 25 % at this moment, did we miss something ? Or has it to do with the link which Smithy posted right now ?

monte03

Rune
Guest
Rune
5 years 9 months ago

This looks significant:
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUKTRE6BG49T20101217?type=companyNews
“Spyker close to BRIC distribution deals”

Tim
Guest
Tim
5 years 9 months ago

Actually, that’s already old news. Today Saab has signed a preliminary agreement with CATC to distribute cars and parts in China. A final agreement will be signed during Q1. Saabs expects to start selling cars in China in July 2011.

Tim
Guest
Tim
5 years 9 months ago
Smithy
Guest
5 years 9 months ago

Interesting, and no, that’s not what my link was about.

monte03
Guest
monte03
5 years 9 months ago

From Bloomberg

“Saab auto signs deal to re-enter China”

the stock is now up 33 %

JL
Guest
JL
5 years 9 months ago

Great fun to study – very impressive efforts 🙂
To make my decision easier I decided to pick the ad that I think would be of most use in the very near future:
-prioritize the most important news = ng 9-5
-ng 9-5 design will sell, but with just one shot, I pick a shot from the front 180 degrees. I believe that cars are usually identified and mostly appreciated from the front.
-the interior has been critized – then display it in all its beauty
#1 is my pick of the day, but thanks to all of you artists!

RS
Guest
RS
5 years 9 months ago

What you just described was my reasoning too. An ad without the car could go totally unnoticed by potential customers owning other brands. Four seasons in very good ad for Saabers (Saab Magazine) but don’t know about the general public?

Swade, could we have a head to head final between the two that get the to most votes ‘in the first round’? Would make it even more interesting imo.

Tomas TL1000R
Guest
Tomas TL1000R
5 years 9 months ago

+1

You´re right an ad whithout a car (you want to sell cars right) it´s work for Benetton, but you don´t run you ass of to nerest Saab dealer after reading that ad. It´s cool (yes it is but thats it) it does´nt sell cars cos you dont know anything MORE about them, it´s just a reminder of the name Saab. Does´nt we want people to know more about them and we need to show them cos they don´t se them enough on the streets,Right!

Oistein
Guest
Oistein
5 years 9 months ago

+1 my pic too

Seb C
Guest
Seb C
5 years 9 months ago

I voted “Great Scandinavian Design” because I think it best represents the non-ostentatious, “intelligent upmarket” that Saab is striving for. Simplicity and quality.

Second in my thinking is the “Great Power/Great Responsibility”, the best tagline but the car isn’t available to us North-Americans so not as universal as the other.

My favourite of the competition is not in the finals, it was the cheeky “Descended from Jets” drawing of Saabs parachted from a jet. But all the finalists are worthy IMO, excellent initiative Swade and thanks for the entertainment to all the entrants.

Jason Petho
Guest
Jason Petho
5 years 9 months ago

A big congratulations to the finalists!

Well done!

Jason Petho

Iiari
Guest
Iiari
5 years 9 months ago

Wow, VERY hard decision.

In my mind, only #6, 7, and 13 have the potential to be spun off into ongoing series of advertisements that could define the entire brand. The others are too limited or specifically targeted to get my vote, despite how impressive they all are.

#13 got my vote, though. It’s an absolutely beautiful, simple, and powerful reintroduction to the Saab brand that could easily be spun off into model and feature specific applications.

Börjesson
Guest
Börjesson
5 years 9 months ago

My second favourite is #4, with that ingenious 9-5 wordplay. But I’m definitely voting for #5. I rather think Jorrit has been unlucky with the jury, who didn’t consider his seven brilliant entries as a series. And if I had to choose only two of Jorrit’s, I would have picked neither #5 nor #6. (It’s a hard choice, but I’d go for the “66°02’N 17°57’E” and the “Passion included” ones.) But even so, I think #5 is very good, and the best ad in the final.

Börjesson
Guest
Börjesson
5 years 9 months ago

Correction: Jorrit actually did nine brilliant entries, not seven! The last two were presented with the name spelled wrong on the AdComp page, that’s why I didn’t find them at first. 🙂

Oscar, from Barcelona
Guest
Oscar, from Barcelona
5 years 9 months ago

From the press release:

“… a holding company that owns subsidiaries which produce and sell premium automobiles under the Saab and Spyker brands, …”

Doesn’t sound fantastic?

peeceepeh
Guest
peeceepeh
5 years 9 months ago

At first, I liked best the # 13. But then I asked myself what the four elements have to do with SAAB. I found this a bit disturbing, so my vote went for #5 because it combines beautiful pictures with a nice message. SAAB will go on!

But great ads all 13. Thanks to the contributors! It’s been a lot of fun.

anonymous
Guest
anonymous
5 years 9 months ago

Although #13 is very attractive, I’m curious as to why it has received such an overwhelming number of votes. If I was part of a struggling company, this would probably be my last choice of the group, simply because it offers very little information about the company or product to create new customer attraction.

I also think it is a disservice to the contestants by resizing the images and not including links to the rest of the ads in the series.

Regardless, these are all very very good entries and there is really no loser in this group.

Börjesson
Guest
Börjesson
5 years 9 months ago
Agreed about #13. It’s brilliant both in creative concept and in execution, and I wouldn’t mind having it as a poster on the wall. But I don’t think it would sell any cars whatsoever. Not in Saab’s present state of obscurity, anyway. Maybe five years from now, when every potential customer already knows what Saab is about and what the current lineup looks like? Then this sort of ad could help underline Saab’s image as a classy brand for cultured people, a car that stands out from the crowd. But at present running a campaign like that would quite frankly… Read more »
sorenc
Guest
sorenc
5 years 9 months ago
I too was wondering why #13 is so popular. It’s an absolutely brilliant idea as well as execution but I just cannot see what that add can possibly do for Saab at this point and thus the popularity. My wife gave me the clue as to the popularity. I asked her to look at the adds give her view as an outside. She prefer #1 and #9 because of the great peictures and did not really care for the “green” ones which really surprised me. With respect to #13 she said “this is a sweet one but it is speaks… Read more »
sorenc
Guest
sorenc
5 years 9 months ago

A small but important correction to the above:

“this is a sweet one but it speaks solely to the loyal following. It will not resonate with people outside the inner circles”.

My apologies!

Quijote
Guest
Quijote
5 years 9 months ago

Congrats to the finalists! I do think some better entries didn’t make the cut (FU GM included hehehe), but nevertheless its great to see the SAAB community take such proactive action!

J Fan
Guest
J Fan
5 years 9 months ago

I feel like I’m at school again, and my name didn’t go up on the board :'(

Voted for no.5, as although it looks very nice and I like it, no.13 wouldn’t make much sense to a lot of people apart from us lot I think.

RMinNJ
Guest
RMinNJ
5 years 9 months ago

All the finalist ads look great to me. What a hard decision it must have been to go through them all. I voted for “People that drive a Saab usually..” because I think it shows the cars along with
telling a story about the quality and product. But they are all great.

I’m going to ask my wife (a non-Saab nut) to go through them and choose. After-all ..those are who the ads really have to appeal to,.

RMinNJ
Guest
RMinNJ
5 years 9 months ago

Well my wife liked #12…(funny that was my initial choice or reaction to this group of ads before I chose another).

Looking at the poll results it looks like my wife is, as I knew, clearly not in the same frame of mind us Saab nuts. Who were these ads suppose to appeal to again ?

GerritN
Guest
GerritN
5 years 9 months ago

#2 got my vote. Simple, but extremely important for the European market and hopefully soon for the US market too. Those damn ants keep on showing up, though, but the Spiderman reference pulled me over.

I would have loved to vote for #6, because I think it incorporates a lot of the Saab design spirit. Unfortunately the new 9-5 is not the best example of Scandinavian simplicity. With some luck the ad can be used with the new 9-3 next year.

ivo 71
Guest
ivo 71
5 years 9 months ago

#4 for me, without hesitation, IMO the most creative entry contentwise. It may need some reworking for max impact but even so has the best appeal potential by far. Well done, Talladegan!

Ivo

Talladegan
Guest
Talladegan
5 years 9 months ago

Thanks Ivo 🙂

To be honest I think everyone wins here and the ultimate winner has to be Saab.

J Fan
Guest
J Fan
5 years 9 months ago

They are all indeed excellent – Saab should somehow use this 🙂 Good luck, Talladegan, and one and all!

ivo 71
Guest
ivo 71
5 years 9 months ago

+1, Talladegan. But there is always a ‘primus inter pares’.

Ivo

Angela L
Guest
Angela L
5 years 9 months ago

They are all good but Number 4 got my attention. Excellent and Good Luck!!

Audrey Wineglass Foster
Guest
Audrey Wineglass Foster
5 years 9 months ago

I vote #4.

Troels, Denmark
Guest
5 years 9 months ago

As I am not completely satisfied with any of the texts, I voted for one with very little text, a simple and clever message, a simple well executed layout and a nice, convincing picture: no. 9.

zippy
Guest
zippy
5 years 9 months ago

I read, and re-read, each and every one twice over so can I vote for all of them!? In the end I liked the simplicity conveyed by #9.

Talladegan
Guest
Talladegan
5 years 9 months ago

I’m really regretting not sending mine in a high enough quality format and resolution. The others are just looking way too sharp in comparison. Hopefully the content stands up though!

Oh well. we live and learn! 🙂

SteveW
Guest
SteveW
5 years 9 months ago

I am not able to vote via iPhone, has any one managed to do this? Btw I like #6 but #4 gets my vote (when I can place it, use PC tomorrow)

Talladegan
Guest
Talladegan
5 years 9 months ago

Voting works fine on Android so I’m sure iPhone should too?

shp2rd
Guest
shp2rd
5 years 9 months ago

#9 has my vote! Because of the text and because of the 9-5 highlighted in that color… Fantastic!! Now that is an ad I would like to see on the dark streets of an winter night illuminated by blue lights! The animal has returned!!
Ps: I also liked: #11, #12 & 13. Good luck to all! 🙂

Tomas TL1000R
Guest
Tomas TL1000R
5 years 9 months ago

This has nothing to do with Saab but sometime it´s not bad to laugh either.
This Thing is from something thats called Grotesco and 23.09 minutes in, there
is quite fun in English. Look and enjoy the Liverlellie sketch.

Sweeds trying to be fun in English, do they make it? I think it´s just great.

http://svtplay.se/t/140137/grotesco_-_del_7

Hope it works, from SVT Play 23,09-26 , Sorry Swade I could´nt help myself.

Talladegan
Guest
Talladegan
5 years 9 months ago

Yes it works 🙂 Good find!

marc
Guest
marc
5 years 9 months ago

Why doesn’t it surprise me that the one that differs from all the rest gets the most votes

ivo 71
Guest
ivo 71
5 years 9 months ago
Because the answer is simple: it’s just too good. It is almost a work of art. And there is the problem: an ad should not be designed as a thing of beauty, it should be designed to promote sales of Saab cars. An age-old advertising adage: if an ad is too brilliant in itself, it won’t move the product. Here in Holland we have this long-running series of TV commercials for an insurance company. These are very, very good. Great concepts, full of easy-to-understand humor, well-cast, perfectly filmed, just great. Everyone in the country is familiar with them, I am… Read more »
Tomas TL1000R
Guest
Tomas TL1000R
5 years 9 months ago

ivo71, You are so right, very well put.

mark, Your point is as good, totally agree.

Dan
Guest
5 years 9 months ago

I said it when it first appeared and I’ll say again, the “four seasons” one looks the closest to being print-ready.

jchan2
Guest
jchan2
5 years 9 months ago

I like the new tagline in no. 10: Saab: Independent Minds.

Reminds me of “The State of Independence” that appeared several years ago. Now that Saab is actually independent, I wouldn’t mind seeing that tagline again.

100%Saab
Guest
100%Saab
5 years 9 months ago

Even my wife wants to vote.

Steve in CT
Guest
Steve in CT
5 years 9 months ago
Voting for just one ad was likely among the most difficult of decisions I have made in recent times! All of the entries impressed me and I can’t fathom how the judges were able to narrow the choices for us to vote. I am glad someone else had to make those decisions to narrow the field. #3 – the relentless pursuit… did not get my vote but the mentions of the crash test ratings and reliability are among the things I think Saab needs to promote loudly. No offense to the creator but I am uncomfortable with anything that evokes… Read more »
Steve in CT
Guest
Steve in CT
5 years 9 months ago
My wife voted for #9 logic will get you from A to B and said that for a magazine reader she thinks that might be most easily absorbed and noticed, and perhaps get someone to think Saab if in the market for a car… perhaps a non-typical Saab buyer (we think alike – perhaps that makes us boring 😉 Her favorite however was #13 – Four Seasons with #5 People who drive a Saab coming in 3rd for her. My wife thinks #13 is a perfect ad perhaps for magazine use in the U.S. We talked about our votes after… Read more »
Momcat
Guest
Momcat
5 years 9 months ago
As Steve suggested above, I totally agree that these very impressive ads written by Saab enthusiasts need to be seen by/shared w/ the marketing folks at Saab. What better way to promote the brand than by these testimonials from those who know it best–its owners, most of whom have driven multiple Saabs over many years. The talent is obvious and the messages are clear–Saab is back and here to stay. The contest may be ending tomorrow but I, for one, hope this collective endeavor does not end w/ the closing of the contest, and that we actually will see some,… Read more »
Tomas TL1000R
Guest
Tomas TL1000R
5 years 9 months ago

Good choice! We thinking the same way. The #10 is not the perfect one but the idé is
the most selling.

Jim
Guest
Jim
5 years 9 months ago

Especially good were the ads that kept it clean and simple. The “Logic” ad was a favorite. But I voted for the Scandanavian Design ad, because it’s a theme that Saab needs to take on. Saab has instant credibility there. And, the market for Scandanavian design products is very large (think IKEA).

Arild
Guest
5 years 9 months ago

First of all, there are no loser in this poll. All the ads are great.
After seeing through the ads a third time my vote went to #6 “Great Scandinavian design”. Saab is Swedish and Scandinavian and should be proud if it.
I also like #13 “Four seasons…” a lot. It really appeals to me, the Saab enthusiast.

StefanH STHLM 93x
Guest
StefanH STHLM 93x
5 years 9 months ago

Voting for #11 In the details. Stylish and nice overall.
Regarding #13. Its a great ad with nice arrangements and message, but I think a winner Saab ad needs a picture of a Saab in it.
🙂

sorenc
Guest
sorenc
5 years 9 months ago
I have asked for independent opinions regarding the 13 candidates asking several “non saab” persons including both women and men. Some where “car people” some where definitely not. The trend is crystal clear. Great eye catching images is everything and environmental green arguments and explanatory text addressing core values and customer appreciation does not appeal what so ever. It is perceived as marketing BS. Very Interesting! Great Scandinavian design #6 is the only one of the top runners that was among their favorites. To me this is a true eye-opener. We as a community do not have too much in… Read more »
Rune
Guest
Rune
5 years 9 months ago
sorenc, I have been thinking similar thoughts. But… Can images alone sell a car? How many of the persons you polled won’t brush it off and conclude “well, it looks good, but so does a Beamer, why don’t I buy that instead?”? I think there is need for something to give a little more leverage. Something they can ask their BMW dealer about and hopefully be curious enough to figure out if a Saab does it better. OTOH, the stated goal of Saab is to get the old customers back. And they might be more curious about the message (and… Read more »
sorenc
Guest
sorenc
5 years 9 months ago

Rune,

I fully consent to what you say. A campaign probably needs to address different segments of potential customers using different types of adds and placement of same.

Personally I think the biggest asset (USP) for Saab right now is the unique and slick (i.e. beautiful) design. Rarely has any vehicle received nice comments all around for the exterior like the new 9-5. Fortunately, design sell cars like nothing else and asking around regarding those adds made me realize how true this is. With stunning images you address both old customers as well as potential new.

sorenc
Guest
sorenc
5 years 9 months ago

Rune,

My apologies for appreciating the core of you message when replying the first time.

You are abolutely right – Images will not do it alone. Text is diffinitively required and asking round I realize just how different that part of an add is perceived. What I tried to say, in my previous response, is that stunning images don’t offend anyone and thus IMO should always be the basis of an add – regardless of the target group. Text associated, however, must vary according to the group being addessed.

Rune
Guest
Rune
5 years 9 months ago
sorenc, I tried to phrase my objection in the form of a question. We are all bombarded with ads constantly. Many of them lies to our face. E.g. my local newspaper pointed out that “(author’s name) now 118000” doesn’t mean the book advertized have been sold (or printed) to 118000 customers. It actually refers to the author’s combined production. The real number, the one people are actually interested in, is 20000, and that refers to how many books the publisher printed… (which still gives you absolutely no clue as to how much that book will sell) So no surprise then… Read more »
Arild
Guest
5 years 9 months ago

Interesting point.
Should the winner ad appeal to us the Saab enthusiasts, or should it appeal to a potential new customer or to both?

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