Cadillac kills the 2.8T version of SRX

UPDATED

This is an interesting development and just goes to show how far off car reviews can be sometimes.

The Cadillac SRX, which is the sister vehicle to the upcoming Saab 9-4x crossover vehicle, has been praised in its 2.8T form, and said to be left wanting for power in its 3.0L non-turbo form. Saab will offer the same two engines in the 9-4x, with four non-turbo variants and a range-topping 2.8T Aero.

Despite the praise for the Turbo SRX, a combination of thirstiness and price meant that only around 10% of the SRX’s sold were turbocharged models. These slow sales have pushed GM to withdraw the turbocharged model from the Cadillac SRX range, discussed with Caddy PR at GM Inside News.

Of course, one wonders if this will have any ramifications for the Saab 9-4x. I’ll write to Sweden in a bid to find out.

My first thought is that there will be no change to begin with. Saab will want to keep a turbocharged model and they know that sales will be smaller anyway, simply because they’re Saab. The removal of the turbo engine from the Cadillac actually makes the Saab offering even more distinctive, even if it’ll be pricey.

Another question to ponder is what it might mean for the 2.8T. I’m not sure how many GM vehicles use this engine, but I don’t think it’s too many. One person with contacts at GM has remarked to me that GM may consider halting production of the engine all together, which could have some ramifications for Saab in both the 9-5 and the 9-4x.

It’s an interesting development.

——

Thanks to Tedjs and MarkM for the tip!

E-LK
Guest
E-LK
5 years 8 months ago

I am so excited for Saab this year!

MitchbSC
Guest
MitchbSC
5 years 8 months ago

I wonder how warranty claims figured in. My SRX 2.8T put a connecting rod through the engine block even though it was outside the VIN range for the engine software reprogramming recall for excessive knocking and intolerance for less than premium octane fuel. I get my SRX back on Monday, with a brand new engine.

Tedjs
Guest
5 years 8 months ago

Curious – were you using less than premium fuel in the vehicle when the damage occurred?

Also – was the oil ever changed in the vehicle at the dealer or otherwise?

Mitch,

Ted’s interest would be professional as well as personal. He’s a qualified GM Master Tech and teaches aspiring mechanics at a college – SW

Red J
Guest
Red J
5 years 8 months ago

Hi Mitch,
when you get your SRX back on Monday maybe you should ask if your power steering is OK !!
After the last experience a burning engine bay is not the most desirable next driving experience for your wife, isn’t it?

jchan2
Guest
jchan2
5 years 8 months ago

I think the SRX 2.8T was about $5000 overpriced, especially with the presence of the base model, and that factored in.

At least now the 9-4X has something to differentiate it from the Caddy! 😀

aaron c
Guest
aaron c
5 years 8 months ago

What did it in for Turbo was the price. 50 grand to start was way too much. But I think it also shows the target audience for the SRX, and proves people can put up with a lack of torque and dimwitted transmission.

I wouldn’t be surprised if the 2.8T is dead soon because it basically powers the 9-5, 9-4x and the Insignia OPC, none of which are really volume sellers. Maybe Saab can source a more powerful (and efficient) engine for a MCE 9-5 and 9-4x.

BoeBoe
Guest
BoeBoe
5 years 8 months ago

The 2.8T is also available in the Insignia as a non-OPC model. In that case the power is ‘only’ 260 hp instead of the 325 hp the OPC model has.

Andrey Borzenko
Guest
Andrey Borzenko
5 years 8 months ago

I wonder why 2.8T is not available for 9-3 – is it some GM contract issues, or just a shortage of engines?

albert
Guest
albert
5 years 8 months ago

Opel just killed the 260 hp V6 for the Insignia.
The manual was already dead, but the auto version is now dead too.
That leaves only the OPC.

Red J
Member
5 years 8 months ago

Albert,
what do you mean with “just”?
On the German Opel site you can still find the 260hp V6 engine, but only with the AWD option.

BoeBoe
Guest
BoeBoe
5 years 8 months ago

I know it’s killed in the Netherlands, but I don’t think it is killed in all markets.

Dippen
Guest
Dippen
5 years 8 months ago

Any historical sale figures Saab with 2.8T-jets?

dmk
Guest
dmk
5 years 8 months ago
Dippen, That is a good and valid question. I’m on my second 2.8T V6, an 06′ SC Aero and a recently purchased new 09′ SS Aero. I recall back in 06-07′ that the Aero sales were no more than 10% of the 9-3 line so at it’s peak of 15,000 or so units each year you are talking maybe 1500-2000 unit per year in the states. Maybe that # is double then world-wide. None the less, I would think production is less than 5-6,000 units per year so my point being that it always was a small production #. GM,… Read more »
74stingray
Guest
74stingray
5 years 8 months ago

Its the same 2.8 thats used in the 9-3 Aero trim right? I really enjoy the torque and zest of the 2.8 but she is a thirsty little devil. I cannot think of another GM car ( In the US anyway), that used a Turbo 2.8.

I’d never trade the coolness of a SC Aero over fuel numbers…. but some folks do!

Aaron
Guest
Aaron
5 years 8 months ago

9-3 Aeros stopped having the 2.8T. 2010 features 2.0s only.

mtnbiker
Guest
mtnbiker
5 years 8 months ago

74stingray, I agree with you. i also have an 08 9-3 Aero SC and it is a thirsty machine, at least with my driving habits : ) I cant think of another GM vehicle with a 2.8T either except the SRX of course.
I wouldn’t mind seeing some pics of you car though, I love mine.

EE
Guest
EE
5 years 8 months ago

If, and it is a big if, the 2.8T was to be retired in the next year or so, what type of engine do you think would replace it in the Saab range? Does Saab have something under development in house or would this be an opportunity for an outsourced engine, perhaps BMW?

Janhf
Guest
Janhf
5 years 8 months ago
We have both a 2007 9-5 Aero Sedan and a 2008 9-3 Aero XWD Sedan. I love them both, but bought the 9-3 because of the power with the XWD. We do get 25-26 mph in highway use, but only 17 mpg knocking around in a suburban setting. My thoughts of Cadillac sales folks would be an inability to explain why a “smaller 2.8 L” engine would be more expensive than a “larger” and (in the Cadillac consumer mind) “better” 3L engine. This is not too different than trying to explain why my 2.3 L (ONLY 4 cylinder) in the… Read more »
jchan2
Guest
jchan2
5 years 8 months ago
I think the 2.8 engine in general hasn’t been used in the US in a long time- the last product I remember having it was the previous generation CTS, which used a non-turbo one as the base engine. I hope Saab has something in the works (or perhaps could turbo GM’s 3.6 engine) should GM can this engine. Within GM, there really isn’t much of a spot for this engine when there’s the 3.6L, but then again, GM has also decided to use the 3.0L in the base SRX and the Equinox and Terrain when they could have easily used… Read more »
zippy
Guest
zippy
5 years 8 months ago

I cant see GM getting rid of the 2.8T engine altogether. The development of said engine has already paid for itself and, as has already been mentioned, its used in Opel cars as well as Saabs.

CMHOHIOMAN
Guest
CMHOHIOMAN
5 years 8 months ago
I’ll be honest…I love my 2009 SAAB 9.3 XWD…..but the gas mileage…has a lot to be desired…22 mpg overall (city/highway). With oil projected to go to $ 100 a barrel or over $ 4.00 US gallon….it weighs heavy on my mind. The projected BMW/SAAB 1.6L 4 cylinder auto/stop engine could not arrive on US soil fast enough….LOL. We have NO Diesels here in the USA ….not many overall period!!! Hybrids rule…which is good. The 2011 Honda Insight is looking better and better everyday…My previous car was a Honda….and it was an excellent car….But you can’t compare it to a SAAB……Apples… Read more »
MitchbSC
Guest
MitchbSC
5 years 8 months ago

Premium fuel was used, always. Hess brand station on the last fill up before the connecting rod event. Hess tends to be good quality fuel. Oil changed at a Cadillac dealer at least once. I had the vehicle in once previously for knocking. Knocking was experienced with premium gas (U.S. RON+MON/2) from Speedway and Kroger gas stations.

Tedjs
Guest
5 years 8 months ago
Based on that information I have to suspect it was maybe it was more of a mechanical knock than a spark/uncontrolled combustion knock – how many miles were on the engine? And did the dealer update the engine controller with the latest software prior to returning the vehicle to you? Cadillac specifies a low dynamic viscosity oil instead of the high dynamic viscosity oil that is used in Saab application of that engine – even though it is the same engine. This is probably a combination of the parent company trying to alleviate customer sticker shock on the cost of… Read more »
MitchbSC
Guest
MitchbSC
5 years 8 months ago
17,565 miles at time of incident. No. No updates were performed when the vehicle was taken in for knocking prior to the incident. The dealership was unable to reproduce the knocking and said “don’t buy gas there anymore”. That was Kroger premium gas. The vehicle was outside the VIN range for the ECU reflash when I had the dealership check at time of purchase. Thanks for the FYI on the oil. Per the service invoice for the replacement engine and work to install a new turbo air duct (service update 10151), it appears they’ve used GM 5W30 Mobil1 with a… Read more »
Tedjs
Guest
5 years 8 months ago

Thanks for the information. I really doubt it was a fuel issue, but I know there were some other updates on that ECU for turbo boost control.

GM does not share PQC center information with us – I think it is generally used now for repair/replace information.

Here is the oil you want to use: http://www.mobiloil.com/usa-english/motoroil/oils/mobil_1_0w-40.aspx

Paddan
Guest
Paddan
5 years 8 months ago
Couple of comments. I have the 2.8 in my 2009 9-3 Aero SC XWD and it gets better mileage than my Dame Edna 4 cylinder 5 speed ever did and significantly, it’s an automatic. I can squeeze out 30 mpg in highwqy driving but yes, 23 mpg in mixed driving. It is quiet, smooth and fast. My only negative is that it seems to generate a lot of heat under the hood. I had to jumpstart a Prius over the weekend and when I removed the battery cover on my car, parts of it crumbled apart. I wonder how other… Read more »
albert
Guest
albert
5 years 8 months ago

How do you jumpstart a Prius?
For starting it uses the motor-generators in the driveline and they work at around 650 Volts.
Afaik the Prius has no 12V battery.

Jim
Guest
Jim
5 years 8 months ago

Let’s put it this way, the Australian-built 2.8T is no smallblock V8. GM doesn’t put it in Cameros or Avalanches. So, it is a novelty item for GM. They could continue to sell the motor to Saab, but future updates / emissions compliance are unlikely. It’s also not terribly efficient. A new V6T will be needed.

Pedro
Guest
Pedro
5 years 8 months ago

Yes, it’s an old engine. But shouldn’t Cadillac have an alternative in place before they kill the engine?
On another note, I don’t see how a TE-based car selling at USD 55K could be killed for being just 10% of the total volume. 10% of the total volume, if profitable, is profit. And I don’t see how the SRX Turbo could not be profitable at that price point, since the architecture really isn’t all-new, it is Theta and Epsilon bits combined.

Mark Orr
Guest
Mark Orr
5 years 8 months ago

GM are so stupid. They should have put the 3.6 in a slightly detuned state into the base and a full 3.6 into the SRX… what a bunch of twits. Instead you end up with a HUGE cost for engineering and parts. And the product is still not great. heck, just dump the 3.6 into both versions. It would be sweet if SAAB could offer a turbo 3.6 9-5 Viggen with around 400 HP.

RS
Guest
RS
5 years 8 months ago

+1

NZSAAB
Guest
NZSAAB
5 years 8 months ago

I find it extremely unlikely of GM to over night cancel 2.8T engine production.

Saab is independent and a professional business so it should have contracts with General Motors for the manufacture of these engines to a set period. Once that set period is complete that will be a time when GM decides to end production or to offer the engine in an updated form etc.

Rune
Guest
Rune
5 years 8 months ago

Isn’t there a potential upside to this news? Potential SRX 2.8T customers may be lured into a Saab showroom…? Interesting link to GM Inside news; Some people complaining of a lack of torque in current offerings.

Does the 2.8T eat much more fuel than the 3.0?

JH
Guest
JH
5 years 8 months ago

That was my thought too! As long as Saab can keep the 2.8T V6 engine in the 9-4X it has yet another advantage over the SRX. 🙂

Bernard
Guest
Bernard
5 years 8 months ago
I suspect that GM has enough stock on the 2.8T SRX to last them trough to the 2012 model year. They will then announce a 3.6l SRX that’s more in line with Cadillac customers’ expectations. The 2.8T didn’t really hit a sweet spot with Cadillac. It’s overpriced, too high-tech, and it’s had bad publicity with recalls and reliability issues. That’s especially significant since Cadillac buyers aren’t predisposed to turbocharged engines in the first place. The typical Cadillac sales pitch involves having a fairly attainable base price, but up-selling most buyers to the “fully loaded” model. The 2.8T failed at that… Read more »
aeroo
Guest
aeroo
5 years 8 months ago

The 2.8 T is one of the many builds from the GM V6 Alloytech block , this is a standard block that GM can scale up from 2.8 litres to 4.0 litres, for those that are interested here is reference material ;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_High_Feature_engine.

Arild
Guest
5 years 8 months ago

When GM decided to sell Saab’s Södertälje engine plant, didn’t they first produce lots of engines so Saab had enough engines for the remaining production of old 9-5 as well as spare engines? I guess it is possible that GM will do the same now, produce all the engines Saab and other brands need before they discontinue the engine.

MitchbSC
Guest
MitchbSC
5 years 8 months ago

Hi Red J,

I did get the recall letter on the power steering. I informed the dealership since they had the SRX already for the engine issue. The dealership said repairs would be current to all bulletins.

Brian Mills
Guest
Brian Mills
5 years 8 months ago

GM just another way to kill a competitor. When Saab if fully free of GM parts and supply chain this soap opera stuff will end.

74stingray
Guest
74stingray
5 years 8 months ago

So long as you have a supplier selling you engines (BMW) or others, there is always going to be room for drama…. GM does not hold the sole rights to supply issues.

Ck1x
Guest
Ck1x
5 years 8 months ago

I think this was brought up before in comments though, and I’m not do sure that the 3.6 engine will fit in the SRX/9-4x setup… Which is why they didn’t use it in the first place. I’m sure Caddy would have rather put the 3.6 in vs the Turbo 2.8. it’s just more in line with everything else Caddy sells and more their image

Pedro
Guest
Pedro
5 years 8 months ago

But aren’t the two engines from the same HF V6 family? The blocks’ external sizes should not be that different (if different at all), it should be the bore diameter that changes between the various displacements offered.

Ck1x
Guest
Ck1x
5 years 8 months ago

But I think the whole setup for these vehicles are based off Saab’s setup for FWD vehicles with XWD which Saab clearly has more experience with the FWD setup… But the transverse mounting of the engines take up more room under the hood, I do believe.

OddJob
Guest
OddJob
5 years 8 months ago

This may be a fore-runner to some good news. I doubt GM would leave the SRX without an upscale engine option. So either they will offer the 3.6 litre or they are becoming ready with the development of the planned new 3.0 litre turbo. Maybe Bravada has some hint?

david
Guest
david
5 years 8 months ago

the 2.8 is just a version of the GM Global V6. It is a the small end for a V6 and was wanted by the Germans for taxing purposes.

Red J
Guest
5 years 8 months ago

Wow, it seems like TTAC has its own view on things.

But now, it seems that GM may have penned some kind of deal with Saab, as GMInsideNews reports that the LP9 has been discontinued from its last remaining Cadillac application, the SRX Turbo.

What about GME, are they part of Saab, or will GME also drop its OPC model?? 😉

David
Guest
David
5 years 8 months ago

A general rule of thumb is about 1 liter of engine volume/ 1,000Lbs weight unless tax laws distort the costs will give the best mileage.

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