Volvo throws down gauntlet with V60 plug-in hybrid – can Saab pick it up?

Around five years ago now, Saab unveiled a concept car at the Stockholm Motor Show. It was just after the Geneva Salon of 2006, and consequently it got lost in the backwash of the stunning Aero X concept.

That car was the Saab 9-3 BioPower Hybrid – a hybrid car in a Saab 9-3 Convertible body. What wasn’t known widely at the time (and still isn’t) is that that concept car was also intended to be presented as a plug-in hybrid vehicle. GM ordered the press release to be changed and it’s rumoured that the plug cover – the rear badge – was glued shut.

So….. the concept of a plugin hybrid running in concert with environmentally friendly fuel isn’t a totally foreign concept where Saab is concerned. The only thing is, they haven’t actually built one yet.

And apparently Volvo have.

The Volvo V60 Plug-in Hybrid combines rear electric motors with a regular diesel engine at the front to consume just 1.9 litres of diesel per 100km, emitting just 49g/km of CO2 when in hybrid mode.

The diesel engine produces 150kW and 440Nm and the electric motors at the back add another 50kW and 200Nm, meaning this car will have the capacity to drive ‘big’ when needed.

It also has three switchable modes – electric, hybrid and diesel, meaning it can run purely off the fuel engine, the electric engine, or a combination of the two.

The car will go on sale in 2012 (they don’t say when in 2012).

——

Saab’s 9-3 replacement vehicle will go on sale in the last quarter of 2012.

Saab’s 9-3 replacement will have a new rear-drive electric propulsion system to work in conjunction with a fossil fuel motor at the front.

Volvo have chosen an existing vehicle for their new groundbreaking drivetrain, which means they can show it now. Saab will be using an all-new vehicle, which means we won’t see it for some time.

The big question is – can Saab do something as compelling as what this Volvo seems to be? Will it offer a plug-in charging capability? Does it need to? Do Saab’s engineers have any more tricks up their sleeve? Can they bring a new dimension to the marketplace in 18 months from now?

I’m pretty sure they can, but it will be very interesting to watch.

Thanks Jeff, for the Volvtip

httpvh://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wWQEacZfqHQ

till72
Guest
till72
5 years 7 months ago

Saab can do it. They’ve got the technology and they’ve got the engineering power.

RMinNJ
Guest
RMinNJ
5 years 7 months ago

Very interesting… I like the idea of electrical assist motors in the back as long as it does
add as lot of complexity (ie repair cost) and weight. The problem is, here in the USA,
diesels just don’t seem to be prevalent.. if they were to come out with a 2.0T and electrical
assist…

No 9
Guest
No 9
5 years 7 months ago

Impressive. I guess Volvo has been working hard behind the curtains. You don’t just whip up a car like that by snapping your fingers. Look at the development time of the Volt, which is definitely a game changer.
The more reason for Volvo and Saab to get together on green technologies.

Janne
Guest
Janne
5 years 7 months ago

Volvo has been talking about a plug-in hybrid för quite a while now.

I think Volvo uses a Haldex-developed electric rear axle drive, while Saab plans to user it’s own e-AAM rear axle drive. Those will be competing products, as I understand it.

Running Fast!
Guest
Running Fast!
5 years 7 months ago
Red J
Member
5 years 7 months ago

Old news,
already covered here. 😉

Jonasc
Guest
Jonasc
5 years 7 months ago

I’m holding my hopes high for SAAB to deliver similar options for the new 9-3 with even greater range in electrical onlyu mode. They’ve already proven they can beat the competition in EV’s which in mty mind leads one to believe they will and can do the same with plugin hybrids.
Regarding the Volvo; it’s a very attractive package if you ask me, however it’s been in development for some time and it was originally shown to (and driven by) journalists in an early implementation on the V70.

David
Guest
David
5 years 7 months ago

I may be wrong, but really don’t give that much credit to the hybrid scene.
For me, the best bets are fully electric running on batteries (Saab 9-3 e-Power) or fuel cells
just like in the Mercedes B-class, recently promoting a trip arrounf the globe, or the BMW 7 series
.

No 9
Guest
No 9
5 years 7 months ago

For the moment, I think a range-extended EV à la Volt (or Volvo) is the best solution.

GerritN
Guest
GerritN
5 years 7 months ago
David, we’re still far from batteries that are small and have a capacity that enables a normal family car to go 500 miles without a recharge. Even when there are charging stations every 100 miles it just takes too long to charge your batteries. This just limits the niche of a fully electric car to a too small consumer base. I totally agree with you that a fully electric car is much more interesting and actually much easier to engineer. But, until the batteries improve by an order of magnitude, there is no other realistic choice than sticking an internal… Read more »
Jon C
Guest
5 years 7 months ago
Gerrit, I have to disagree with you. The 500 mile range is a red herring and always will be. Extensive studies have shown that about 70% of drivers travel less than 35 miles per day (including in the US). I am now sadly part of that 30% who travel more than 35 miles per day, usually about 200 so a pure EV is of no use to me but I recognise that it will fit the needs of many, many people for example my wife, mother, sister, neighbours and many many colleagues from former jobs. You might argue about long… Read more »
GerritN
Guest
GerritN
5 years 7 months ago
Yes, I agree with you and with the studies, but how about the practicality? What the studies don’t address is that sometimes you do need to travel long distance. Considering the price of a car and the cost of maintaining it, insuring it and, in most West European countries, paying road tax for it, excludes the possibility of having more than one car. Renting a car for the occasional long distance drive is an option. Using public transportation is too if it’s available and is not too expensive. Of course, all these options have to be weighted against the fact… Read more »
Jon C
Guest
5 years 7 months ago

I dont disagree at all with you, its just that a significant number customers will fall into the categories of –
Having 2 cars
Not doing long journeys (over 200 miles)- and thats a surprising number of people.
Being happy to rent

Emil
Guest
Emil
5 years 7 months ago
“I wonder whether recharging your car will be as cheap in the future as it is right now” I think it’s pretty obvious it won’t. You already mentioned the need for a humongous overhaul of the entire power grid, which will cost heaps and heaps of money (that the customers will, without a shadow of a hint of a notion of a doubt will be charged – either by the power companies or through taxation). Also, the demand for electricity will skyrocket when everyone drives electric cars, generating needs for new powerplants, which will add to the above mentioned heaps.… Read more »
David
Guest
David
5 years 7 months ago

The reason for my little faith in the hybrid solution when compared to fully electric, or, my favourite one, hydrogen, has also to do with development costs. Let me put it this way: the incoming of the investment in hybrid technology will be enough to cover the development costs ? I believe so…If it’s on sale already, not otherwise. Will it be worth it to invest much in evolution step 0.5 when step 1 (maybe 3 years from now) is already arround the corner ? just my thoughs 🙂

Andy Rupert
Guest
5 years 7 months ago

Am I reading that correctly?

1.9 l = 100 km
1 gal = 124 mi

Who wouldn’t want a car with that kind of fuel economy?

zippy
Guest
zippy
5 years 7 months ago

I remember GM saying the Volt was gonna get something like 240mpg when it was first hinted at. 1.9l/100km is NOT realistic IMO.

What interests me more is the rear drive system in the new 9-3.

Jonasc
Guest
Jonasc
5 years 7 months ago
I too believe more in the full electrics but until EVs can offer the same conveniences as the benchmark fossil burners I believe the market for fully electrics is limited. The hybrids cover that gap for now as I see it. I would be one happy camper if Saab instead delivers a ground breaking ev that truly compares with the fossil burners instead of going the hybrid road. That seems unlikely to happen in that timescale considering JAJ mentions 2015 as a year when Saab wants to take their part of the estimated EV Market. Fingers x-ed though 🙂 worst… Read more »
GerritN
Guest
GerritN
5 years 7 months ago

Hah, you beat me to it by one mouse click!

Toby
Guest
Toby
5 years 7 months ago

True, but the imperative has to be for an Alternative.
A growing population all buying technologies that consume non renewable resource only has one very unpleasant outcome….eventually.
The answer could already be there somewhere…maybe…but the infrastructure to transfer across to it smoothly is perhaps the biggest challenge globally.
First we have to decide what it is, then standardise the supply. even then if its batteries where is that power coming from- it may not be low carbon (gas turbine powerstation/ or coal powerstation..the problem will still not be solved easily) it is one of humanities biggest challenges along with food security.

smoke_jaguar4
Guest
smoke_jaguar4
5 years 7 months ago

… “a hybrid car in a Saab 9-3 Convertible body.”

This would be a dream come true. It could also scratch the itch for a Saab Halo Car. Instead of some over-powered, cramped, “numbers car” that no one will care about except auto journalist; make a car that lets you enjoy the environment while preserving it. Imagine zipping down the road with the top down while the only sound coming from the engine is silence. That would be a true luxury.

J Fan
Guest
J Fan
5 years 7 months ago
I spoke to the Volvo MD Ireland back in 08, and this was one of the things he discussed. Apparently Volvo were ‘caught with their pants down’ when this whole eco movement came about. This and the C30 with the electric motors at each wheel was mentioned – both due in 2012 (seemed a very long time away at the time!). So, Volvo have been hurting, and I suspect have been working about as hard as anyone in this area – they were certainly painfully aware that they were lagging behind. Just a note on the hybrids. We almost bought… Read more »
Alex
Guest
Alex
5 years 7 months ago
The taxi story I’ve heard before and it’s a bit flawed as taxi companies love Crown Vics/Grand Marquis and continually lobby to keep them around because they are incredibly easy to fix compared to a Prius and there are an incredible amount of parts available due to the fact the car has been around in it’s basic form for 20 years. Until gas is $5 a gallon and there are tons of Priuses to pick parts off of in scrap yards, their overall costs are going to be lower with the Vic. The gas claim seems to be a bit… Read more »
Red J
Member
5 years 7 months ago
I’ve already written a post about that. What Volvo is doing is very clever and is a good piece of engineering, but there is no magic in that. Saab is, as long as I’ve read and heard in the last months taking the same path as Volvo, and will be able to offer a sub 50g Saab with the NG9-3, if the rumours are right. The question is, will Swedes be blinded by a car that may come next year and will have an unknown price (Volvo V60 plug-in hybrid), or will they take the 9-3 SC with a very… Read more »
J Fan
Guest
J Fan
5 years 7 months ago

Well, I knew I heard it somewhere!

björn
Guest
björn
5 years 7 months ago

Well, it is impressive. But it costs a lot, 450k to 500k sek is what I read in Swedish press!

Thylmuc
Guest
Thylmuc
5 years 7 months ago

Everybody seems to get into this field now. Michelin presented their motor driven “active wheel” already in 2004, and Siemens’ similar development is called eCorner. Funny though that Michelin found no licensee so far ?!

No 9
Guest
No 9
5 years 7 months ago

Hydro-Québec, through one of its research branch developed the «moteur roue» which translates into motor wheel, about 20 years ago. I guess they were ahead of their time cause it was never commercialized.

GerritN
Guest
GerritN
5 years 7 months ago

Unsprung weight is too high with a motor in the wheel.

michaelb
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michaelb
5 years 7 months ago
A few remarks: It is not true, that Volvo uses an existing vehicle. Originally, that hybrid project was planned with the V70. But they changed it a year ago or so, probably because it was easier for them to do it with a completely new developed car, the V60, that was already designed for it from start.. The V60 is a lifestyle vehicle completely different from Volvos past. It is not any more form follows function, but form is a value per se. Its cargo space is very limited. I hope Saab will not make the same mistake with the… Read more »
Andy Rupert
Guest
5 years 7 months ago

I agree that the lack of cargo space is a problem. Volvo says that they didn’t care about he amount of space b/c people needing more room can buy the V70, XC60, or XC90. Whatever. I hope SAAB doesn’t go that direction.

Thylmuc
Guest
Thylmuc
5 years 7 months ago

Err, Saab already went in that direction in 1997?!
9000: 486 l trunk -> 9-5: 425 (?)
9-3 I: 496 l -> 9-3 II: 415 or what

Plus less rear room in the 9-5 than in the 9000.

I can only hope that they revert that trend.

Andy Rupert
Guest
5 years 7 months ago

hmm…

Maybe interior space doesn’t matter when you offer a bigger vehicle to handle different size needs. For instance, the C900 was everything way back when (speed, handling, cargo van, family car, etc). But now that they have two wagons interior space in the cars isn’t as important. Seems to make manufacturing sense.

Thylmuc
Guest
Thylmuc
5 years 7 months ago

As shown above, Saab did not offer a bigger vehicle fro
2002 to 2010. Now they have the new 9-5 with lots of rear room, though we still can’t tell how big the trunk on the wagon will be.

Engineer
Guest
Engineer
5 years 7 months ago
This form of hybrid tech is really not that energy efficient. It may be a choice from Volvo by other reasons, but not overall efficiency. The seemingly low consumption simply reflects the amount of batteries they’ve used (in conjunction with certification rules). The car has a heavy lump in the front, a rather old lossy automatic and a quite big/lossy electric axle in the rear (+batteries). All this adds lots of weight and resistive drag. The electric drive capabilities is a good feature but the power/torque is too low in order to be “fully electric driveable” (even though it satisfies… Read more »
Red J
Member
5 years 7 months ago

Hey,
you have destroyed the Volvo light of salvation in just one post. This is not fair. 😉
And talking about the European “EV” certification and the NEDC. Isn’t it a joke that a car that produces about 150 g/km CO2 can say it produces only a third of that, only because it has

a heavy lump in the front, a rather old lossy automatic and a quite big/lossy electric axle in the rear (+batteries).

??

Engineer
Guest
Engineer
5 years 7 months ago
Naah, maybe I was a bit harsh… but still it’s not an optimal package from a fuel saving perspective. It may very well be Volvos perception of balance between driveability, traction and fuel consumption. I wouldn’t say certification is a joke. It is very difficult for the authorities to design a perfect test method. But the basic idea is that if you (or rather a statistical distribution of drivers) can drive pure electrically far enough you will be rewarded with low sticker emissions. Hence, increase the storage and get better figures! At a cost of course… This may also be… Read more »
Red J
Member
5 years 7 months ago

Yes, you are right, but as I understand it, NEDC is a synthetic driving cycle to allow a better comparison between vehicles, although now the PHEV are distorting the results, as they can run the test on e-power, although after a certain distance they will have to start the IC engine.

I thought that EV’s were certified by converting the amount of current used with abstruse formulas into CO2 values, but I may be wrong.

michaelb
Guest
michaelb
5 years 7 months ago
I would be very careful to be too arrogant towards Volvo. “The car has a heavy lump in the front”. According to the Volvo website, the weight of the V60 with the 5-cyl Diesel is barely more than with the T-4 gasoline engine, with FWD it is 1582kg against 1570 for the T-4. This is moderate extra weight, not a heavy lump. Compare the weight with a similar equipped 9-3 2.0l TTID 180hp, which for 2011 models is 1690kg, far more. The Volvo engine is all aluminium, and has very good characteristics. A heavy lump? Which one? “A rather old… Read more »
Red J
Member
5 years 7 months ago

Hi michaelb,
it seems like the British V60 D5 uses a lighter engine than the rest of Europe.
Tjänstewikt (Sweden) D5 1614 kg; T4 -> 1533 kg; Diff -> 81 kg
min. Kerb Weight (UK) D5 ->1582 kg; T4 ->1570 kg; Diff -> 12 kg
Leergewicht (Austria) D5 -> 1726; T4 -> 1638 kg; Diff. -> 88 kg
Peso en vacío(Spain) D5 -> 1614 (No T4 in Spain)

Even comparing the D5 with the T5 the weight difference is about 50kg (outside the UK).

Rune
Guest
Rune
5 years 7 months ago

Is the government increasing demand for electricity to drive up the price of electricity? If they do that, it will be more tempting to invest in nuclear power plants. (Meanwhile, those unable to afford electricity will either freeze to death or burn more wood)

As for Ovlov, they will sell cars no matter what. I’ve driven the V50. I know it to be total utter cr-p on wheels (to drive – cargo space is secondary to me). But I suspect it sold better than the 9-3. Quite undeserved. History will repeat itself.

Engineer
Guest
Engineer
5 years 7 months ago

It wasn’t my intention to be arrogant towards Volvo at all. They’ve made a great effort in making and industrialize this vehicle. They’ve picked the concept and components based on their preferences and availability. But still, as a plug-in hybrid it is actually not a highly energy efficient vehicle which was your comment.

Engineer
Guest
Engineer
5 years 7 months ago

On second thought, I think we are looking from two different perspectives. My comments on the components (although a bit blunt – sorry) was from a plug-in/EREV perspective, not from a traditional car point of view. E.g. the engine, it’s a great engine in a normal vehicle(driven it >100000km) but maybe not in fuel consumption. Hence it would be more appropriate to use e.g. a high BSFC 4-cyl since the total power including eRDM “may” be enough. Similar reasoning applies for other parts of the car in my very personal opinion.

Gustaf
Guest
Gustaf
5 years 7 months ago

One question though; are you sure the given weight is measured the same way? Maybe someone in here can clarify what I mean. I’m perfectly sure I read somewhere SAAB and Volvo states weight in different ways. For instance, SAAB is said to state the fully equipped car but Volvo just a standard equipped. That could easily explain the extra 100kilos. I really hope the SAAB is lighter. Low weight is always a good thing, better than tuning, even 🙂

Red J
Member
5 years 7 months ago

Gustaf, look at the numbers I have given, it doesn’t look like Volvo always measuring the same car. 😉

Zizou
Guest
Zizou
5 years 7 months ago
OK, that sounds great but what about the costs??? Let`s say the car costs about 5000 € (just an example) more than the “normal” diesel version. Fuelcosts diesel (20’km per year, diesel price per liter 1,20; average fuel consumption 5,00 liter/100km (new Saab diesel in practical use)): fuelcosts per year: 1200,- Fuelcosts diesel/hybrid (same premises, average fuel consumption 2,5 liter/100km (estimated practical value – might differ)): fuelcosts per year: 600,- So per year your saving 600 bugs. According to this the higher price amortises after 8,33 years… Are you going to drive the car that long? What are the extra… Read more »
Red J
Guest
5 years 7 months ago

Good point Zizou,
if you read my last comment on this issue, you will notice, that Saab is very well aware of that, and they (I think Volvo as well) expect some kind of incentives from the government.

Thylmuc
Guest
Thylmuc
5 years 7 months ago

Diesel price in 2013: 1.8 € per litre.

Or not, but you just don’t know, and the fuel prices are on the rise again. So better to be prepared. And what about plug-in function? Does it have one? Those of us in a lucky position of being able to plug a cable into the car might then save even more.

Baah
Guest
Baah
5 years 7 months ago

Good point, but keep in mind that the trade in price for a hybrid car could be much higher compared with a standard car 5 years from now assuming technology is ok and still high fuel prices.

My big concern for hybrids would be maintanance cost – completely unknown!

GerritN
Guest
GerritN
5 years 7 months ago

“What are the extra costs accumulating with the hybrid system (new battery…)?”

From extensive experience with laptops I would say you need a new battery pack every 3 years, probably even sooner if you are fast-charging the batteries a lot.

Jonasc
Guest
Jonasc
5 years 7 months ago
As I see it the big point with a plugin hybrid is that it will allow you to do most of your travels in EV mode. I do roughly 30 000 km a year and 98% of those are withing a distance of 50km which would allow for several hours of charging (if needed) before I’d need the car again. The few times a year I go on longer trips would not be a problem since they could be done using the fossil burner. EV mode for 98% of 30 000 km a year makes a big saving in fuelcosts… Read more »
No 9
Guest
No 9
5 years 7 months ago

«while leaving no CO2 footprint whatsoever.». Not true: that depends entirely how your electricity is produced. Imagine coal fires generating stations… The production and recycling of the batteries also have to be taken into consideration. It’s more complex that it appears at first.

Jonasc
Guest
Jonasc
5 years 7 months ago

Point taken, however in my case all electricity is generated from renewables only. Generally speaking though, the travels would leave no CO2 footprint whatsoever but the charging could in worst case origin from coal burning plants. Even then it would be very marginal compared to a fossil burner on the same premise – which then would include CO2 footprints from drilling/extracting oil,transporting oil, refining oil(amazingly big energy consumer) transporting fuel and distributing fuel to your local fuel depo.

No 9
Guest
No 9
5 years 7 months ago

As is our case in Québec. But if I drive a car using fuel produced from the Alberta tar sands, then my environmental footprint will be vey heavy. That’s why I believe in an extended range EV à la Volt for our neck of the woods, providing the batteries withstand intense cold in the Winter months…

GerritN
Guest
GerritN
5 years 7 months ago
Energy released = Energy stored X Efficiency. Why would you think that energy generated somewhere else would be more efficient than generating it in place? If you just look at the CO2 footprint then I don’t think it matters whether the energy to move your car is initially generated by a traditional power plant or by your internal combustion engine. What would help is to replace the traditional power plant by a nuclear reactor or by a solar/wind/etc plant. This still doesn’t solve the problem of distribution, the electric grid is simply not up to this task yet, no idea… Read more »
GerritN
Guest
GerritN
5 years 7 months ago
You’re exactly right. At this moment there is also a political issue with using Lithium batteries. There is only one big Lithium mining country in the world. So instead of being depended on a whole consortium of oil producing countries you’re going to be totally relying on the goodwill of one country. So, any solution should be thought trough very carefully before taking any far reaching decisions. This doesn’t mean that R&D shouldn’t start now, reality should never be paralyzed by philosophy. My final 2 cents; any extra tax revenue from enforcing clean energy laws/rules should go directly to clean… Read more »
No 9
Guest
No 9
5 years 7 months ago

I’d have to check this info, but I’m pretty sure there is an important Lithium mining project under consideration in Québec, Canada.

Toby
Guest
Toby
5 years 7 months ago
There will be a political disincentive for the use of any resource that is not renewable or sustainable, Here’s the better/impossible stuff : solar or free zero-point capture, Atomic flux and fission type energies-still have large questionmarks hanging over them…Solar is the easy one but has obvious drawbacks and still relies on lithium from Bolivia currently the worlds only major source. To put it bluntly we will just end up in exactly the same boat we are right now only instead of a panic headline about an oil crisis it will be a Protactinium crisis or an Americium crisis and… Read more »
Bernard
Guest
Bernard
5 years 7 months ago

You can really tell the difference between the two company cultures by comparing this video with any of the Saab videos we’ve previously seen.

Volvo: the CEO wears ill-fitting suits, cars drive in a straight line at no more than 40km/h
Saab: CEO and owner wear designer suits, car drives sideways on a frozen lake

I think it’s pretty obvious which car will be more fun to drive.

Thylmuc
Guest
Thylmuc
5 years 7 months ago

Volvo has a rather agressive ad running on German television with a V60 doing lots of slides etc on some industrial estate. At the end, a black puma jumps into the trunk. Ridiculous. And no made-to-measure designer suits, pfff.

Andy Rupert
Guest
5 years 7 months ago

I work at a Volvo dealership and have noticed the same thing in Volvo literature and training videos. All the women are trendy while the men are sloppy in appearance. I’m no trend setter but the men look like they haven’t combed their hair or shaved for two days.

No offense meant but is that the style in Sweden or just with Volvo?

Tomas TL1000R
Guest
Tomas TL1000R
5 years 7 months ago

Thats me I´m afraid!

“the men look like they haven’t combed their hair or shaved for two days.”

And I´m Swedish, former Ovlov fan so what do you suggest me to do, cut my rair and get a job?

Tomas TL1000R
Guest
Tomas TL1000R
5 years 7 months ago

Sorry! rair=hair

GerritN
Guest
GerritN
5 years 7 months ago

Not shaving for 2 days (or more) is a European tradition. I can recommend it, and a funny accent.

Phoenix
Guest
Phoenix
5 years 7 months ago

You see it on the road as well. Volvo drivers often follows the speed limit exactly and no quick accelerations. The Saab drivers is the opposite. Not everyone of course but in general. Don’t know if it is the Saab drivers have more fun or the mind of the driver. Perhaps a combination. With that said, Volvo is building great cars. If the 9-4x is like the xc60 to drive I will be very happy because that is a very nice car in many aspects.

Baah
Guest
Baah
5 years 7 months ago

Peugeot will be on the market with their Hybrid4 system – diesel front, electric rear – on the 3008 and 508 models this year. Not sure that is a plug in, though.

Öppning forward testing that system!

Baah
Guest
Baah
5 years 7 months ago

Peugeot will be on the market with their Hybrid4 system – diesel front, electric rear – on the 3008 and 508 models this year. Not sure that is a plug in, though.

Looking forward testing that system!

Mynoob
Guest
Mynoob
5 years 7 months ago

The V60 PHEV will be priced beyond anything that we mortals will be able to afford. It will strictly be a reputation-/tech-cred-booster targeting a very very limited number of customers. I think that if Saab is to counter this they will need to find a way to bring the technology to market in a fashion that is financially viable to a larger customer base.

When I say financially viable I mean a price that will sustain considerable sales without massive temporary government incentives.

Jeff
Guest
Jeff
5 years 7 months ago
This really does bring up a lot of questions which I hope Saab can at least hint their intended path soon. For one, could Volvo be a partner since they are so close? I understand the nature and history of their competition with each other, but I feel like they probably benefit if they can somehow work together and share costs. If not Volvo, the next GM Voltec gearing mechanisms will work much in the same way as the Volvo’s, and are due out sometime around the same time, late 2012. I would hope Saab could use some of this… Read more »
Mailr
Guest
Mailr
5 years 7 months ago
My guess is that a 9-5 2.0T eXWD vehicle would sell nicely in Sweden. I’ve heard some collegues that say that they won’t buy a 4-wheel drive vehicle due to the increased fuel consumption, but a electronic rear axle that saves fuel is something that they looking forward to. Of course, we don’t know how it will turn out in detail, yet. Electric (only) cars are hard to refuel, and will remain so. If you want a range that similar to a regular car, you need about 100kWh for a full recarge (the Tessla has 53kWh and half the range… Read more »
JukkaH
Guest
JukkaH
5 years 7 months ago
There are already incentives; at least here in Finland the CO2 emissions add directly to the car tax. If your car does 60g or less, it’ll mean that you’ll pay 10% + VAT when buying the car. If the car does 200g, it’ll mean already 24% etc.. Let’s compare the current offerings: 1) 9-5 TTID 190 HP manual -> 159g/km -> 20% tax 2) 9-5 TTID 190 HP manual + XWD -> 176g/km -> ~21.6% tax 3) 9-5 TTID 190 HP manual + eXWD -> (purely speculative) 100g/km -> 14% tax Now, let’s assume that the basic car costs 30k€,… Read more »
Kjell Erik
Guest
Kjell Erik
5 years 7 months ago
I don’t believe in a high power hybrid. If you want a high powered car and the batteries gets exhausted after some spirited driving, you just have to carry a lot of extra dead weight. If you tow a caravan, the only time you are able to charge the batteries will be on a long downhill descent, and 5 minutes later the batteries will be empty once again, and with a lot of extra weight. If the batteries are of the same quality you get from an electric drill or a electric wheelchair, you will soon have to replace them… Read more »
Ken H
Guest
Ken H
5 years 7 months ago

These CO2 incentives are, as I see it, my tax money used to promote boring and filthy diesel cars. I rather use my money on something else, thank you very much.

On another note, CO2 hysteria and the blind governmental support for diesel is a nice and soft resting pillow for the car manufacturers, so that they need not to waste too much money on R&D.

Jon C
Guest
5 years 7 months ago
Ken, I hate paying tax as well and doing 20 000 miles a year in the UK I suspect I contriblte a great deal to the coffers of UK PLC. I would suggest however that Porsche and Ferrari have spent quite considerable sums to develop more efficient cars. I think that BMW would also respectfully suggest that quite a bit of their R&D budget went into efficient dynamics technology. Manufacturers NEED to be pushed, for every Saab innovator there is lazy car company pushing out the line about how seatbelts dont save lives or how catalytic convertors will ruin the… Read more »
Ken H
Guest
Ken H
5 years 7 months ago
“Efficient blue dynamic” is what? Higher gearing, cover up some air intakes, lower suspension and low-resistance tyres, that does not even have to be used after purchase… Yeah right, I bet they stretched their budgets for that… Manufacturers are not being pushed, so far from it. EU was going to push, but the big car countries managed to push the CO2 rules much less strict than originally planned. Tail wags the dog? 14 years after the first Prius, the technology presented by the “Efficient blue dynamic” bandwagon is still less advanced, but the goverments have not enough trucks to drive… Read more »
Jon C
Guest
5 years 7 months ago

Whilst not wanting to find myself in the bizzare situation of defending, of all things BMW, on a Saab blog there is a bit more to effiicent dymnamics than “Higher gearing, cover up some air intakes, lower suspension and low-resistance tyres” but if you think its a scam fair enough. Some Manufacturers will very likely do the bare minimum.
I also fully support your absoulute right to protest about what your taxes are spent on – it’s your mone,y but your argument that the focus on co2 and government support for diesel reduces R&D spending is simply not right.

Marco
Guest
Marco
5 years 7 months ago
Well, the question about if Saab can do something similar to this ovloV creation is of course in place. My thoughts: – Saab people have got out a <120g/km engine of a base that was an oldie. Remember, GM engineers didn't believe in it! – Now they are working on a new technology and have many more possibilities to affect the outcome. Until now GM has been telling what to do and where to put resources. – IMHO this industry is not about the technology. It is about the people making the technology. AND the attitude of this people… I… Read more »
E-LK
Guest
E-LK
5 years 7 months ago

Red J and Swade, I sent an email about the 9-5s; 2010 vs 2011 design with pics.

Mike Bugda
Guest
Mike Bugda
5 years 7 months ago

I am a bit aware of what the Saab 9-3 e-power is doing, as I know some folks at Boston-Power who are supplying the batteries for the test program their undegoing in 2011.

Here’s a web site to give you a bit more insight and information:

http://www.boston-power.com/news/press-releases/la-auto-show-boston-power-battery-fuels-saab-9-3-epower

GerritN
Guest
GerritN
5 years 7 months ago

Ah! Someone with inside information. Spill the beans! We promise we won’t tell anyone.

Carl-Henrik
Guest
Carl-Henrik
5 years 7 months ago

Eh.. hm.. arggg.. yes.. we promise to don’t tell anyone.. not even ourselves.. 😉

psmisc
Guest
psmisc
5 years 7 months ago
>Volvo have chosen an existing vehicle for their new groundbreaking drivetrain, which means they can show it now. Saab will be using an all-new vehicle, which means we won’t see it for some time. Wasn’t there a video of similar system running on a 9-3 test mule? As for plug-in, I don’t see why not. I remember back in the Ford days Volvo scheduled the system for a 2015 production, now they seem to be rushing things ahead. Perhaps in reaction to the Chinese electric subsidies, and more importantly, the American Axel acquisition? 😉 Anyways, it’s good to see some… Read more »
Mark
Guest
Mark
5 years 7 months ago

My mother taught me that if I didn’t have anything nice to say I shouldn’t say anything….

but I can’t help myself. That is one butt ugly Volvo.

turbin
Guest
turbin
5 years 7 months ago

The 9-3 e-power combis are already out there kicking this things butt!

Can’t wait to see some press test drives of these.

Rune
Guest
Rune
5 years 7 months ago

What is worse, is that the Chinese have started copying Ovlov: http://www.aftenposten.no/okonomi/utland/article4038072.ece

They make the same products as Ovlov, only they label them “Lovol”.

Red J
Member
5 years 7 months ago

You made my day. 😀
Happy independence day, Rune.

Rune
Guest
Rune
5 years 7 months ago

Ah, yes, I completely forgot! 😀

Happy Independence Day Everybody!

(Better than Christmas and New Year’s Eve combined!)

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