Saab PhoeniX Concept in pictures
March 2, 2011 in Saabology
OK. My camera blew up two-thirds of the way into today’s proceedings so I haven’t got a whole heap of photos. And guess who left his charger back at the house (here in Geneva)…..
But here’s a quick photographic tour of the Saab PhoeniX Concept. It catches some of the great little features on this car.
I’ll take a bucketload more tomorrow and I’m also doing a video tour around the car with Jason Castriota.
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The crowd reaction was interesting.
The crowd was pretty big. Opel had the press conference immediately before Saab and even while the Opel conference was still going, the crowd was building 5-deep at Saab.
I was expecting a large ovation when the car was unveiled but the reaction was a lot quieter than I expected. That’s not a bad thing. The reaction was very positive, but I think a lot of people were really having to do what we had to do – take it all in and get used to it.
The car was almost immediately set upon by the crowd and it’s been extremely busy at the Saab stand all day ever since.
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The rear lighting will be a cause of concern for some. The execution in this concept is probably not quite what they envisioned when they put the idea together. It’s basically the victim of an incredibly short time frame.
I love the aeroplane logo incorporated in the back there. The dots, not quite so much, but they don’t offend me at all.
As you can see, there’s also extensive use of carbonfibre in the back, too. I’ll have more detail on that below.
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The front end. The paint looks awesome and the contours show up beautifully. There’s some reminiscence of the Saab 99 hood contours in there. The whole thing looks really, really clean.
The wordmark looks great. I know some will lament the loss of the Griffin on this, but personally speaking, I’m not going to lose any sleep over it in this context.
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Not that’s got muscles….
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The side profile. Also muscly. The more I look at this photo the more substantial the car looks to me.
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Another angle…..
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I think the ‘flying buttresses’ are the most controversial part of the design. Personally speaking, I love 98% of this car. These are my personal 2% and I’m struggling with them.
The purpose is to effect the airflow, of course, and aerodynamics is an important part of this car and will be an important part of Saab’s future.
I’m willing to bet, however that most of the negative commentary we’ll hear will relate to this feature. It seems to me they could have left these off and it wouldn’t have had a negative impact on the car at all, but it would have avoided some of the negativity.
Bottom line – this is a design concept and should be looked at as such. It’s not a precursor to a production model and whilst they’re not a part of the car that I like personally, I’m not going to have those dictate my thoughts on the whole concept.
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A closer look from the different perspective….
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Some of the rear-end CF detail….
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And now to one of the more favoured features….. the wheels maketh the car once again…..
And the centre badge in detail. Love those wings…..
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A look at the front end into the interior…..
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RedJ got a couple of pictures of the interior, too. Very minimalist, very clean. I’m going to look into more of this tomorrow.
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And finally, inside the rear hatch. This is another RedJ shot. I haven’t seen this for myself at all, yet. Will be part of the tour with Jason tomorrow.
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Ari said on March 2, 2011
This is what you get when you hire a guy from the Jersey Shore to do a Swede’s job.
I don’t mean to sound too glib though; it’s all rather heart breaking in terms of its ramifications for Saab’s future.
Jason Petho said on March 2, 2011
I disagree.
I think it is a brilliant step forward while still maintaining subtle roots.
Considering the intent of the car, it is an exceptional piece.
Jason Petho
DMR said on March 2, 2011
Ethnic stereotyping – unbecoming of a Saab driver.
Alyeska2112 said on March 2, 2011
Agreed. And I’m not at all dismayed by the design. Minus the obvious whimsy of the airfoils, I think it’s a remarkable shape, with a subtly aggressive stance, and a terrific harbinger of Saab’s ever brightening future. 2010 is over. Things are genuinely looking good in Trollhattan.
SasaK said on March 2, 2011
Agree 100%, it’s so TASTELESS. I feel so sorry
psmisc said on March 2, 2011
“This is what you get when you hire a guy from the Jersey Shore to do a Swede’s job.”
Stay classy, people.
Charles said on March 2, 2011
I don’t think this one is going to grow on me. Seems they have done a 180. There is no simplicity to this design, nothing scandinavian, nothing Saab. It has bulges, flying buttresses just for the heck of it. The ice of blue/greens and ice blocks seems to already been thrown out the window with all the red in the interior. It is anything but clean.
I want to like this, but I can’t. It is garish.
kanundrum said on March 2, 2011
I know where your coming from, but leaving SAAB back in the old days of styling will get it no where in the future. Times have changed and for them to make it in this world they need to compete with how the new cars look.
Have you seen the focus, fiesta, hyundai etc.
They look amazing.
Charles said on March 2, 2011
That is fine, and you can change your design direction. But if it breaks all your core principles, than I see it as an issue.
I car can be clean, simple, yet still very modern.
You mentioned cars that have very busy designs, that will age quickly and not gracefully.
I know its a design exercise, but really, a hood window on a Saab? There is nothing clean, classy, understated about that. Leave the hood window to Corvette please…
rodmylon said on March 2, 2011
I suppose the hood window shows the heart of the independent Saab beating (even if it’s a Saab modified BMW motor). No more compromises in the heart of Saab.
Jeff said on March 2, 2011
I love the contours on this car. The bulges, the muscularity of it, yet in a sleek minimalist way, all very exciting stuff for a company that has been all about reducing form to smooth curves. This is Saab’s “I’ve been to the gym and I’m ready to compete” moment. I like it.
Bravada from GMI said on March 2, 2011
We have seen the Focus, Fiesta and I am right back from driving a Hyundai. They are awful, insectoid, alien, bloated and rather repulsive. Both inside and out. Absolutely nothing to derive inspiration from. Stay away from those.
Henrik said on March 2, 2011
+1 brrr, the worst thing is that I spotted a Fiesta parked next to a Ovlov V60 and from behind it looked like they were sisters
Dino said on March 2, 2011
Haha, I nearly fell off my chair laughing
Doctor Donk said on March 2, 2011
Where are griffins?
eggsngrits said on March 2, 2011
I think that the Griffin will go the way of the two-stroke engines and Minilites.
Seriously, if memory serves, Saab Aeroplan AB (the original Saab) licensed GM to use the Griffin for cars. Now that GM isn’t in the picture, the agreement may come to an end. Again, that is my recollection; it may not be reality.
Alyeska2112 said on March 2, 2011
True, the Griffin logo was lost to Saab Cars. I remember reading they had to choose between the logo and the wordmark. I definitely think they made the right decision.
Ante said on March 2, 2011
Brand agreements are between SAAB Automobile AB and SAAB AB…
JeremyP said on March 2, 2011
Griffin Up! Oh… wait… Can’t use that anymore… Letters Up!
Rick C said on March 2, 2011
Make it “flaps up” as in ready for take off! Great to see the aero logo back, especially on the wheels…..those spinning Griffins had to be getting dizzy….I think the “fire breathing chicken” has seen it’s day, I know the one on MY hood flew away!
TurboLover said on March 2, 2011
KT said on March 2, 2011
I feel very disapointed of the design and the lost of the griffin logo.
The griffin is part of the brand history! It’s more classy distinctive than just the letters.
Can anyone imagine BMW/ Alfa abandoning their logos and replace with letters?
By the way the new aeroplane propellor logo is so old fashion! I’m sorry but we are not in the 60s anymore!
kanundrum said on March 2, 2011
Get rid of that auto gearbox and the wings and it will be good to go!
Bernard said on March 2, 2011
It’sgot three pedals and a stick shift, so your wish is their command. As for the wings, I really don’t think they will make it to production for pedestrian safety reasons.
rodmylon said on March 2, 2011
It’s quite clearly stated in the press release that it has a 6-speed manual gearbox!
Justyn said on March 2, 2011
New Saab Phoenix Concept app for Android.
http://www.appbrain.com/app/saab-phoenix-concept-car/com.saabautomobile.phoenix
saabdude said on March 2, 2011
Folks…please…it’s a STYLING EXERCISE.
Don’t get your knickers in a wad.
It is seemingly drawing a lot attention to SAAB…and that is precisely what SAAB needs right now. Remember…there STILL are a lot of folks who think SAAB is OUT OF BUSINESS. Remember that? And how people here get all angry about that fact?
Anything that will focus the world’s press attention on SAAB in a positive way is priceless.
So relax.
eggsngrits said on March 2, 2011
+1. This is a show pony, not your everyday ride. Concept cars are supposed to push the limits a little.
DMR said on March 2, 2011
At the same time, the concept defines the vision…this looks more like a Spyker vision than a Saab vision. Remember the Aero-X? This is no Aero-X.
With the Phoenix, Saab can no longer claim to distinguish itself from BMW and the herd that follow that path. If they are not careful, they risk getting shoehorned into the gadget heavy Acura category, or worse as C&D put it, as a European Pontiac that ends up appealing only to hardcore racing enthusiasts.
saabdude said on March 2, 2011
“…this looks more like a Spyker vision than a Saab vision.”
So when GM had SAAB in its clutches for two decades…the AeroX was the only vehicle that came out of that “shotgun” marriage, and it never got any further than one show car? Might you prefer SAAB still being a part of GM, where models don’t get refreshed more than once in 10 or 15 years?
We’ve seen more from Spyker/SAAB in the first 12 months of ownership, than we did in the 240 months SAAB were a part of GM.
“With the Phoenix, Saab can no longer claim to distinguish itself from BMW and the herd that follow that path.”
Huh? How? Have you seen anything from BMW…or anyone else for that matter…that looks like the PhoeniX? If so…please provide the links.
Many posters here have been asking for more modern vehicles from SAAB, and not wanting to relive the past of the C900 & 9000. SAAB have now done what was asked…and folks aren’t happy.
Just what the heck do you people want? Give me a break…please.
Mikaik said on March 2, 2011
I wanted to write the same post throughout the day. In the end I thought is maybe wiser to just stay away and not stir the spirits.
I totally agree with you, saabdude.
From a crowd claiming to be so “different”, some of the comments are really disappointing, while the lack of respect for JC’s work is disturbing.
B. said on March 2, 2011
BMW PhoeniX a.k.a. Efficient Dynamics:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjaFjxAkPQE
BaRa said on March 2, 2011
Do you really consider the BMW Efficiënt dynamics concept a contender for the PhoeniX concept? These are two totally different cars. The only thing they have in common is that they are sportscars and that they are trying to spin car aerodynamics in a different way than before. BMW does it by elaborately folding the car’s surface, Castriota limits himself (visually, at least) to the flying butresses. Something that was introduced, but in a different shape, in the 9-X Air concept. Other than that, no resemblance between the BMW and the Saab. The PhoeniX has much more in common with concepts like the Mazda Taiki car, where they are equally trying to redefine the brand styling.
Jason Petho said on March 2, 2011
+1
Carl-Henrik said on March 2, 2011
Teknikens Värld in Sweden has this video up on their site: Teknikens Värld Saab PhoeniX Concept video.
For people not speaking Swedish it can still be nice to see the details….
esone said on March 2, 2011
Interesting video. Castriota has dared to do it. And……..do not need to speak the language to see
SAAB_andee said on March 2, 2011
Some details were nice – some not (do´t like the back) but the car has done it´s job. It´s a pure PR car. If you remember most clean saab designs were good but not really recognized by the press (only the aero x was a halo car) This concept car has enough to hate and love. the new 9-3 is a different story.
charlie said on March 2, 2011
OK.
Details on the rear are looking very interesting. I like the brake vents.
The interior! Wow. I am loving it. Single cluster at front, with SID information? Then the screen at the right angle. That is really really really good.
Do something like this for the single cluster:
http://cars.ign.com/articles/694/694782p1.html
(from the aero-x)
Those headlights can’t be DOT legal?
is is 2+2 seater?
Save the Griffin!
Esone said on March 2, 2011
Fantastic:) They have managed to create a Concept in a short time, and with so many elements of older Saab included. And the car looks futuristic and modern. Because …… older Saab was, and Castriota is a genius.
Dan said on March 2, 2011
I still don’t think the griffen is going anywhere. I think the older airplane logos are just for this concept, to match the older Saabs that it is intended to imitate.
The griffen is how the world knows Saab. Not the airplane.
Baah said on March 2, 2011
I was just starting to like the concept, and then I found this:
http://www.yosax.com/bertone-mantide
Then I thought like this:
VM pushed JC to come up with something “new” for the Geneva show. JC said “ok, but it will be tight, I will need to use some of my old stuff”. So, he started with the Bertone Mantide concept and tweaked it a bit.
VM said in the interview that we “will see the similar front and the hood on the new 9-3″. Probably because that is the part of the concept that JC really had the time to re-work from the Mantide concept.
I am not sure what to think.
(db) said on March 2, 2011
A quote from an old Jalopnik interview with Castriota;
You just go; “Nah, I’ll keep this one in the drawer, just keep it in the head.” And one day, who knows, maybe an opportunity will come about, where you can go; “Viola! There it is!” And you know, people will love it or they’ll hate it.
http://jalopnik.com/#!5222533/jason-castriota-stile-bertone-mantide-pininfarina-p45-designer
Baah said on March 2, 2011
Yes, at least 80% of this car is from the drawer, I would guess. As I said, he probably worked on the front to make sure it will fit with the next gen 9-3. And I do think front part of the car looks pretty good. The side is not SAAB at all.
It is very obvious that this is a drawer thing when Bangle asks “what is SAAB about the car”.
SasaK said on March 2, 2011
so sad, tasteless and re – cycled. I am deeply worried about the new 9-3
Joachim said on March 2, 2011
++ For the Android based IQon system should be standard in all SAABs
Ralph said on March 2, 2011
Hoping to seen some pics of the new Saab 9-5 SC here as well…
keith said on March 2, 2011
+1
hilmar said on March 2, 2011
Not too futuristic for production, straighten it a bit , please, and it will hit the mark !
Börjesson said on March 2, 2011
From DI.se:
I really hope they lose the Klingon forehead, though! (I.e. the strange creases on the hood.) And the interior, obviously, is completely horrible on the Phoenix and should have no bearing whatsoever on any production Saab.
Argosy said on March 2, 2011
I see that Jason Castriota is on his way of becoming SAAB’s Chris Bangle in a way he’s going to split opinions. Well, if he can have the same effect on SAAB sales as Bangle did on BMW sales, so much the better.
Personally, I love the concept. Considering they didn’t have much time to do it, it’s great. I love the “wings”.
JTMav said on March 2, 2011
I think when I look at the new 9-5 and see the hints of the Aero X then I think we will see a very interesting 9-3 next year. Concept cars are almost always intended to be controversial. Designers drool over the chance to make such a statement without any pressure for it to be practical or utilitarian. I see what Jason is talking about with reference to the roots of the company yet it must be fresh and modern, which it is. Just gets me that much more curious as to what the new 9-3 will look like. I think it’s going to be something very special after seeing this.
JTMav
Edonis said on March 2, 2011
Instead of the red illumination in the instrument cluster, I wish they used the same blue-green which they used in the Aero-X… I don’t like the rear-end, but the front is really good looking, and I could see an adaption of this design on the next 9-3 would look really cool!
2-don said on March 2, 2011
I completely agree!!! If they would have stuck to the blue-green tail lights this would have looked a whole lot better. Also, I’m not too crazy about the wheels. Otherwise it’s not horrible, but different. It will take a while to grow on people. Why didn’t they go in the direction of the 9-3 Air? That was a great looking car!
Smoke_Jaguar4 said on March 2, 2011
It reminds me of the Cylon Raider from the re-imaged Battlestar Galactica series – especially the ‘vestigial’ wings. Hopefully it won’t try to extinguish the human race
Overall, what you would expect from a concept car: 90% free-form fantasy, 10% peek at the future. I’d say most of the details forward the A-pillars will be seen in production, the rest we’ll need to wait for.
Baah said on March 2, 2011
Agree, and that is because 90% od this car is some old JC design work that has nothing to do with SAAB, like the Bertone Mantide.
rodmylon said on March 2, 2011
I disagree! The rear is straight off the Sonett!! In a modern fashion.
http://bringatrailer.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/1972_Saab_Sonett_III_97_2_Door_For_Sale_Rear_1.jpg
For those saying it has no Saab cues, here’s a list (again):
-Front (obviously, and it’s much cleaner than at first sight)
-Hood – lines and scultupring abit like the UrSaab (and the other old saabs)
-Side window – like the UrSaab (clean bend at the back end of it – NOT a hockeystick like on the 900, as we expected. STILL this is a saab cube!)
-Rear hatch – teardrop shaped and coloured like the UrSaab
-Rear metal – bends at the sides like the Aero-X and Sonett
-Rear – like the Saab Sonett
-Interior seems to wrap around like it should
What many of us were expecting when it was said to go back to the Saab roots, was that it would resemble the classic 900. But we should have expected this, as what has Muller talked about for a year now? “Teardrop” and “classic old saabs”. That’s what this is!
And to those who say it hasn’t got clean lines, look again on the bigger pictures. The sides and hood are very clean, flowing and elegant.
As somebody already said, the Aero-X has already been done. It had to be expected but totally unexpected, as Castriota said.
But then again, these are just my views! =)
And remember, this is a concept. How much of the Aero-X can actually be seen directly in the 9-5? Not much The Areo-X is a sonett, the 9-5 is a 900 (from the side). The next 9-3 will be very different from the PhoeniX, but the front and hood will probably have a strong influence.
TurboLover said on March 2, 2011
Well the basic shape is actually very good.
I see this as a very very good bottle of wine that have been opened to early. Maturing the wine will make it smoother just like this concept shold be smoothed by reducing all the exess features and overworked steel bending.
To put it in an other way. This concept is to much VM. it should be a little more JÅJ when it becomes the new 9-3 production car
Gunnar said on March 2, 2011
Couldn’t have said it better!
eadams said on March 2, 2011
+1.
Way too much checked tie with striped shirt …
Talladegan said on March 2, 2011
I thought the same when viewing that
Jason H said on March 2, 2011
Well, I’m super excited that we even HAVE a concept this year – Saab has been in a real rough patch most of the last decade. I’m not ready to say I’m totally blown away, need to spend more time with it, but I think certain tech in the car is very slick and that I like elements of the car that I think could make it to production models. JC said that you’d either love it or hate it, and from the various car mag comments/forums, that’s very apparent. In short – to have this, the 9-5 SC, and the 9-4x are great steps in the right direction this year. I’m not sold on the dark color of the wheels however, I think they’d look better a few shades lighter.
Talladegan said on March 2, 2011
“I’m not sold on the dark color of the wheels however, I think they’d look better a few shades lighter.”
I think we’re a bit old fashioned as I feel the same but the ‘youth of today’ seem to like that dirty wheels look!
saaburban said on March 2, 2011
-I was so excited for this day to come.
Finally saab would have its ‘Audi TT’ moment,
with a concept car that could recapture saab.
Maybe an Ursaab reborn, in an sensual super hightech
silver teardrop.
-im critical of what i see, this is a distraction…
im worried, that saab is waisting time and money on this….
it is far from the aero-x star quality i would have expected.
If the next jason 9-3 will save saab, it better be as far away
from this as possible. lets see what the auto press will do
with this one.
SAAB_andee said on March 2, 2011
This phoenix thing has done it´s job. I´ve checked the german car magazines and – the phoenix make news. so it creates some rumor . without the phoenix saab would´t be recognized by the magazines. a nice brave clear swedish concept as the 9x biohybrid wouldn´t get that attention.
It´s pure show to create PR.
Richard said on March 2, 2011
This concept has a very different feel and presence than the Aero-X, which presumably is part of where some of the negativity comes from since the Aero-X is the last concept car that Saab had produced. As beautiful as the Aero-X is in my eyes, I don’t see that they can continue with that design language if they are to build into the future.
I think choosing the teardrop element of UrSaab for this concept is brilliant. That shape introduced over 60 years ago was revolutionary. Almost every new design Saab has introduced has been beyond it’s time and took time to digest and appreciate. I don’t want to see contemporary or current themes in a design concept. I want it to grow on me.
I see elements on the PhoeniX that I love: the old Saab badge, Sonnet tail, a hatch, clean flowing lines. And there are elements that don’t work for me:
- Muscled bulges remind me only of gawdy American muscle cars
- 20″ wheels are too “pimp my ride” for me, though I love the wheel design
And the vestigial wing. That immediately threw me. But after seeing the side profile of the car in Swade’s pic above I could recognize one important reason for it being there. With the blackness of the canopy and windows, an element is needed to tie it into the body. This wing works very well from that side view and for me brings it together in a much more cohesive look between the voluminous body and relative darkness of the canopy. Brilliant again Jason!
I for one am glad for the polarizing comments on the design. The worst thing that could have happened is a communal reaction of “meh…”. Good or bad reactions are ALL good for Saab right now. Saab is back baby!
I’d be interested in hearing what feedback Jason is getting there on the floor.
Absolutely great job Swade and RedJ !
Keifer5448 said on March 2, 2011
Drag co-efficient of 0.25
Canopy-inspired greenhouse
Teardrop shape
Driver-focused cockpit
Versatile cargo deck
200hp 1.6L engine
5.0 l/100 km and 119 g/km
Advanced eXWD
Nearly invisible A-pillars
And the list goes on…
Besides the red interior illumination, it would be hard for this car to be more Saab-ish. I have been with Saab all my driving life and am now on Saab number four. I must argue that, by the numbers and features, this is–without question–a Saab.
maanders said on March 2, 2011
And remember how different the design of the Sonett was when it was first introduced, especially the Italian designed Sonett III? Yet everyone now considers that design part of Saab’s heritage. This concept strikes me somewhat the same way.
But yes, production cars need green/blue lights….much more calming for night driving. The color red tends to impact people to excite….green and blue to calm. Red is fine for a concept/show car as you want it to build excitement, but I am confident that Saab’s years of safety knowledge and driver-focused design will swap out the red in production cars.
rodmylon said on March 2, 2011
True. I wonder how the 9000 was initially received? It looked nothing like previous Saabs. Totally cubical. Still it’s a true classic these days! =)
And then we have the EV-1…
Keifer5448 said on March 2, 2011
I’m in complete agreement about the 9000! I owned two (1990 turbo and 1995 Aero). In terms of overall function and interior form, a true Saab in nearly every sense. In terms of exterior form, a radical departure. Yet, even in terms of the exterior styling, it still seemed to embody an irreverence for status quo forms of the day–another hallmark of Saab.
I see two general types of design: absolute and relative. Absolute design dictates that new designs mimic those that came before (read: retro styling). Relative design considers past designs and how they were situated among competitors. The new design might appear to be a radical departure from its heritage, but the new design situates itself among competitors as its predecessors did. I think the PhoeniX seems to do this.
Carl-Henrik said on March 2, 2011
Just spotted Swade talking with VM on Swedish news on channel TV4.
Nate 9-3 said on March 2, 2011
Nice!
Joe said on March 2, 2011
Me too! Two SAAB saviours taking care of business.
rodmylon said on March 2, 2011
I checked those clips, and more importantly!!! :
Antonov is now accepted by GM and the Swedish government. Only the EIB stands in the way now. It seems to be only a matter of time until Antonov is allowed in. Perhaps Muller will repay the loans earlier or something to get Antonov in fast, if no other way is found. Antonov says that there then will be possibilities to raise up to 1 billion euros in loans for Saab to create it’s future!!! If the talks about financing continues after that we might as well resign and buy horses…
lala said on March 2, 2011
haha +1 on that
GerritN said on March 2, 2011
There has been a lot of talk about Saab DNA over the last year. Somehow design clues like clam shell hood, wrap around windshield, hockey stick, etc. have been confused with DNA, i.e. the underlying philosophy. As we look back over the years these design clues appear and disappear, but the philosophy seems to have stayed the same. Imho, the Saab philosophy has always been to design a beautiful car but in a simple and minimalistic way. The airplane heritage came in handy because, for aero-dynamical reasons the same design rules apply leading to a clean uncluttered vehicle.
This is why the Aero-X worked so well, it’s a simple but beautiful design. An please remember, everyone, including the automotive press, was raving about the Aero-X. It was a simple concept, but not bland. Unfortunately its design language didn’t really make it into a production car other than the new 9-5. In the 9-5 this minimalistic approach just doesn’t mesh well with the fact that the new 9-5 is just not a minimalistic design in itself (sorry, just too much Caddy).
The PhoeniX has picked up many of the old design clues, bit of the Aero-X front, teardrop airplane canopy, Sonnett back, etc. Unfortunately it has left out the simplicity of a minimalistic design.
As DMR mentioned a couple of comments ago, a concept car is there to draw attention but also to show a vision of near future cars. If the PhoeniX is supposed to express that vision then Saab has just lost the main part of its DNA.
Since I saw the first renderings of the PhoeniX last night I tried to like this concept, but I just fail to see through all the clutter that surrounds it to find The Saab underneath.
Richard said on March 2, 2011
Excellent point on the definition of Saab DNA.
Lee said on March 2, 2011
Well said.
Ian L.P. said on March 2, 2011
I would of agreed with you last night, but looking at it today with more shots and angles I think it is a very clean design, I think you may be focusing too much on the details, specifically ones you may not like, such as the wing things. The overall shape is very clean and elegant.
Hinks said on March 2, 2011
+1. It´s fine as American muscle cars go, but Saab it ain´t, no matter how many wings they glue on.
Martin P said on March 2, 2011
Check out the doors:
http://gfx.aftonbladet-cdn.se/multimedia/archive/01404/saabbak_1404098w.jpg
maanders said on March 2, 2011
I have already stated my initial opinions in the other posts on the concept, but with Swade’s close-up shot of the wheels and logo….seeing the low-profile tires that are so often used on concept and show cars just makes me think…..
In the future……there will be no potholes!
Well….at least one can dream…
Dmain said on March 2, 2011
Separated at birth…I knew this I had seen this car before:
http://forums.aaca.org/attachments/f200/30046d1241549716-f-s-1988-buick-reatta-38034.jpg
maanders said on March 2, 2011
Seriously? I don’t see much similarity there at all.
Talladegan said on March 2, 2011
Nor me. What is the white car anyway?
ivo 71 said on March 2, 2011
It’s a Buick Reatta. Hand-built (!) 2-seater coupé (I believe it was the only post-war 2-seater Buick; some ragtops were built as well) series, produced between 1988 and 1991 with standard 3.8 litre engineering and FWD. It had some pretty advanced tech in the cockpit, too: a touch-screen operated computer control interface for various in-car functions, no less. Remember, we are talking pre-1990.
Not bad imho given the styling ideas of the period and the usual Buick design language. It even holds the road quite well and doesn’t actually drive badly at all. Pretty compact for an American vehicle, too.
I liked it at the time and still do, in a way. But I also fail to see the design -or any other- similarities with the Saab PhoeniX save the 4 wheels.
Ivo
chaaalie said on March 2, 2011
The whole point of having a concept this quickly and at this show was to PROVE to everyone Saab is not dead, not dying … having Castriota at the helm of it gives it some cache … but the most important thing here is that people are talking about a Saab. People are forming an opinion about a Saab … and hopefully sharing that opinion.
You know what that is called? RELEVANCE.
Welcome back, Saab!
Niklas G said on March 2, 2011
JC about what makes the Phoenix a Saab:
http://www.teknikensvarld.se/nyheter/110301-castriota-bangle/index.xml
charlie said on March 2, 2011
I think we are being a little harsh on JC.
It does the trick. Gets the attention.
i do see the Ur-SAAB there.
Now to get to the classic 900SPG…
Peter said on March 2, 2011
Yes, Bangle. Saab owns Aero. Has since day one.
Great video!
SAABoy said on March 2, 2011
Is it me, or is that an annoyed Chris Bangle? He sounds like, not a nice guy, there. There’s this awkward tension throughout the conversation.
Peter said on March 2, 2011
Two alpha males?
Also Bangle may be a bit jealous of the initial reaction to the PhoeniX. While copied far and wide, his 7-series was not well received initially.
Henrik said on March 2, 2011
I agree, he seems jelaus, I love it when Jason mentions the UrSaab and Bangle goes ursaab? I bet he thought that ws the 900. Well done Jason!
charlie said on March 2, 2011
Also Bangle bashing on JC for “what is a saab”
as he likes to say, something you have to tear it down.
J Fan said on March 2, 2011
Annoyed or just a smart-alec?!
J Fan said on March 2, 2011
That was a great piece there.
JC seems like a very nice guy. Bangle came across as that awkward professor at university who would never let a student be right, and who always had a different ‘correct’ answer at the ready.
Also, look who is watching on at 0:46, I’d like to hear his thoughts
Curvin O'Rielly said on March 2, 2011
It looks like Bangle flunked charm school.
Loma said on March 2, 2011
excuse my french , but:
Bangle, you aaare an asshole !!
(I may have broken some forum rules here, but I couldn’t resist)
maanders said on March 2, 2011
Top Gear seems to like it.
Geneva Motor Show Saab PhoeniX Concept
TurboLover said on March 2, 2011
Hmmm, when a read comments in different medias, I get the sence that people that are not into Saab DO like this concept very much, while “true Saabista” are a little bit more reserved.
Have anybody else noticed this?
rodmylon said on March 2, 2011
I was actually thinking the right opposite earlier today. But I’d say it’s quite equal atm. I’m a bit afraid that non-Saab fans don’t get all subtle UrSaab/Sonett references, and it seems several Saab fans don’t either.
I read the comments over at DI.se and both Saab fans and Saab “dislikers” liked it and disliked it – but with a strong positive trend. The PhoneiX does exactly what it was designed to – raise brand awareness and discussion.
JL said on March 2, 2011
+1, great point!
Peter, Sweden said on March 2, 2011
I really don’t think that non-fans care about the references – on the contrary I think non-fans appreciate a bold direction which seems new (to them). There is a reason for them not being fans (yet).
The Phoenix does precisely what it needs to do: bring awareness that the brand is not only alive, but it’s really kicking — in the same time it cares about us fans with all the true Saabyness that only we nerds appreciate and notice
Laurens said on March 2, 2011
If this observation is right, then this concept car might already have achieved it’s purpose: attracting new consumers that are needed to bring the brand to higher sales levels, outside the ‘hardcore’ Saabista’s who cannot safe Saab for the long term on their own.
Considering myself one of those Saabista’s, feelings are mixed indeed: front is absolutely a great step forward, certainly Saaby and promises a lot for the new 9-3 (or is it 93?). Don’t know yet about the side and back though, more Spyker than Saab I guess. Wings are really overdone, nothing clean Scandinavian design there.
But then again, if it get’s the attention and brings the message that Saab is alive, I would say: PhoeniX go go go!
Muppen said on March 2, 2011
Yes, I have seen that to!
saablife said on March 2, 2011
What an insult to the SAAB design philosophy. Absolutely horrid. Where are the clean lines? This looks like an edel that was flatined by a large heavy object (meteor). This looks like a mid-90′s GM concept car that never saw the light of day.
Mr. Castriota is not doing any justice to the SAAB design philosophy at all.
Bring out the Aero X please!
TTAero said on March 2, 2011
Well, it seems to be doing the trick. The press likes it and that will create the buzz.
Great, bit I can not really se the wow-factor in this. I french concept use strange stuff and angkes, saab usually do not.
The front end is nice looking. But, as the saabs usually grow on me, I just might love this in a couple months.
GerritN said on March 2, 2011
Oh dear, people are going to quarter me for this, but I can’t resist.
Nissan doing Saab better than Saab?:
http://www.nytimes.com/slideshow/2011/03/01/automobiles/autoshow/20110301-geneva-auto-show-5.html
Next car in the slide show is the PhoeniX, so you can easily go back and forth between the two.
Btw, Ferrari is having its Panamera-me-too moment:http://www.nytimes.com/slideshow/2011/03/01/automobiles/autoshow/20110301-geneva-auto-show-4.html
Ugh, ugh, ugh, even Italian design can be ugly!
Mikaik said on March 2, 2011
In fact, Nissan`s doing the AeroX again, only 5 years later. Can’t wait to see their PhoeniX in 2016.
maanders said on March 2, 2011
I see what you mean about the Nissan. Sort of looks like the Saab concept prior to the Aero-X.
And that Ferari FF…..the front end of that car….ewwwww!
Troels, Denmark said on March 2, 2011
Also the Koenigegg have the Saaby wrap-around-screen AND hockey-stick!
Toby said on March 2, 2011
I wanted it, I wanted to see it.
I thought I’d go, I have been waiting for years in the shadows for this I’d leave things undone to see it, I almost did…
I drove home today in thought. I missed turnings I would normally take, deep in thought and in silence, radio off, I drove 20 miles more than I should have in my black 2002 9-3 Aero hatch just thinking about Phoenix. Trying to reconcile it.
It looks more Spyker than Saab, I have searched for the DNA and I am sorry I just can’t find much of it, I know Saab I have had nothing but Saabs since 1974…I want to like it…
I am really very sorry but I just can’t.
The front requires an “X” in true profile its gummy and hang dog-the X gives it teeth and structure (just two 45 degree opposed inserts inboard of the kerb/spot lights low on the anterior would solve this.)
The bonnet-muscular and good with drag but he window into nothing-it’s a waste of time on a Corvette its plastic and American-leave it (Style over Content).
The multi veined underside and sharp uplift from the front to back does not flow-it just does not, it looks unfinished –snap on-this needs balance and simplicity not more intakes and contour veins.
The cross drilled lights at the back-just cheap. The fibre optic relays in the current 9-5 look more modern work on that.
The canopy-probably the best I have seen anywhere but it does not make the whole car-well done for that though that part has legs and is stunning but it needs rounding out to make it practical it is far too tapered in plan and profile.
The red lights-I think that is a misjudgement-easy enough to tweak.
It certainly has caused controversy JC must now be a friend of Mr Bangle they both had DNA and chose not to use it-or to use so little of it so subtly that everyone noisily said what a bold design but quietly wondered how it occurred. The Jag XJ now is a similar story-an unexplained quantum jump that makes folks uneasy…it’s a great car but…look at it… Saab don’t do that.
I will bide my time and wait for the ng 9-3 but if you asked me do Saab have a future I would say yes but right now I can’t see that I will be a part of it. Its an exciting design but I am truly struggling to see and brand heritage, design cues etc.
I won’t witter on about the pure canopy profile visor design
Clamshell bonnet
Banana shape balanced underskirt
Hockey stick C pillars
Large boot area (hatch) and not an almost saloon (hatch)
There are a probably another 20 factors I could name off the top of my head which have been overlooked that would be considered pure Saab but that’s for another post.
For me the Aero-X is cleaner and classier than Phoenix, Saab is about timeless simple aesthetics, this is a fashion statement that will get everyone talking. The problem is when the talking stops…you’ve got a problem.
it’s a promise…and I preferred the dream.
Troels, Denmark said on March 2, 2011
I think that I will not make any more comments about this concept-car. Just, very friendly, – hopefully in sufficient time before finishing the new 9-3 that we all have been expecting so much from – reminding J.C. and V.M. about one important statement regarding design:
ONE CAN NEVER SAVE A MEDIOCRE SHAPE BY ADDING DETAILS. BUT ONE CAN SOMETIMES IMPROVE A GOOD DESIGN BY SUBTRACTING.
T.M. said on March 2, 2011
Well said. I still can`t decide if I don`t like it or hate it, there are some things that are ok, but it came out as a Frankenstein of older Saab models, I trust the 9-3 will look good as long as Simon Padian is still around and has a word to say in all of this.
Dave said on March 2, 2011
Yes, I really hope Simon Padian is still arround. Unlike the Aero X, it’s really hard to see this one as a SAAB.
SAABoy said on March 2, 2011
Lets replace the red with some other color effect. Maybe someone could photostop green or ice block effects for the interior and the hood window, please?
martinsaab said on March 2, 2011
Strange observation on my side: it really starts (slowly, but still) growing on me.
The more I look at it. Keeping in mind – of course – that it is a conceptual study…
To the things I dislike:
* the Peugeot-look-alike wheel arches: they are too flat at the outmost surface right above the wheels (don’t know if you get what I mean)
* the rims: yes I do love the new Saab turbine rims, but those protrude way too much.
Replace them by the 9-5 turbine wheels and I am happy
And I love the old-fashioned aircraft logo! On the rims and on the taillight.
Lee said on March 2, 2011
Wow. I need to keep this in perspective: PhoeniX is not necessarily a template for future production cars, just a concept intended to generate outside interest in Saab while showcasing Saab’s design prowess. Saab fans are already going to stop by the Saab booth – Saab needs to grab the attention of those who are not yet conscious of Saab, something I am sure this concept car has accomplished. It is over the top, but as a concept, it isn’t supposed to be conservative – production cars are conservative. With that said, PhoeniX is too much Castriota and not enough Saab, but in this context I think that’s okay.
Elbobo said on March 2, 2011
It’s interesting as a pure concept, which it is. I wouldn’t drive a car that looked exactly like that but the chances of that are nil. I really think it has a lot of SAAB EV-1 in it as I looked at it more closely……
Chris
Kittciokas said on March 2, 2011
At the morning when i saw this car, i had mixed feelings, but now i do really like it, especially from the side, front is okay, but can be improved (i like Aero X front better), back is not bad (I love Aero X back), but not good to. Overall i would give it 8,5/10. I don’t like too small headlamps on the front and i would like it to be a little more minimalistic, like Aero X. People at Autoblog wasn’t very possitive, but here, in Lithuania, 99% of people loves it.
hughw said on March 2, 2011
I’m an American and this car reminds me of overly muscled cars like the Corvette and Firebird. Just too much bling and too little cool. Sure the lines are nice, but I don’t see how the design concept can be adapted into production cars, other than a new sonnet. WHat Saab needs quick is to reach out to Jonathan Ive who evidentially is about ready to break with Apple and head back to the UK.
I’m ready to buy a 9-5SC when they hit our shores, but looking into the years beyond, I don’t see a Saab in my future if this is where they’re headed. And what would Curvin O’Reilly write for copy about a car like this? It’s hard to see him writing the kind of copy surrounding the 900.
Pino said on March 2, 2011
+1 on Jonny Ive for Saab’s design
Peter, Sweden said on March 2, 2011
It’s interesting how different perspectives two Saab-owners can have — I see tons of ideas that can be adapted into production cars.
For instance the front could easily be the new 9-3-front. Also the absence of rear mirrors is a nice detail, as well as the return of the hatchback, the center tailpipes, the LED-cluster on the back, the extremely driver-oriented interior, the focus on aerodynamics (0.25!) + all technology underneath (electronic AWD, iQON, etc).
All things mentioned above could and most certainly will end up in production Saabs. The Phoenix shows which road Saab is heading, it is not showing how future Saabs will look like.
Harry said on March 2, 2011
I sure like the technical stuff: 200 hp with 5,0 l/100km, the eXWD and the Iqon.
But I was very much looking forward to the design as a first glance as to what the new 9-3 might look like, as by end of 2012, my current 9-3 will be nine years old. It’s not that I do not like the design at all, but I really hope that it will considerably sober up come the new 9-3.
Olav said on March 2, 2011
I like PhoeniX a lot! Bold lines flowing along the body like contrails in a windtunnel. If the new 9-3 really will have elements of this creation then I am really looking forward to see it in flesh in 2012. Way to go JC and VM!
Cheers from Norway
-Olav-
Always on the longest road home when out there with my SAAB. Always!
David Zemon said on March 2, 2011
Once again, I’m in love.
I have issues with the car still, but no more than any other concept. I think the hood window needs to dissapear, and the flying butresses should go die lol but for the most part…. wow. Wow wow wow. Jason did an incredible job!
Cheers,
David
Carl-Henrik said on March 2, 2011
There are things I like.. and things I don’t like with the PhoeniX.
But I don’t care, as it is a concept and not a car that will go into production.
On another note.. it is interesting to see the comments here just confirms JC’s comments about “either you hate it or you love it”..
Jonny Mac said on March 2, 2011
I like it! Castriotta implemented a fresh and modern design with more aggressive cues than in the past and in way that will hopefully lure Audi and Bimmer owners over to Saab so it can stay viable. Although this is just a concept, I can’t wait to see some it in production with the next generation 9-3.
TuuSaR said on March 2, 2011
Saab has generally had quite “ready to road” concepts but if you look what other carmakers are showing and have generally shown, then you realise that concept cars are usually more about new art gallery than “ready to road”.
Common Saab rule is also that exterior is minimal and cockpit is busy like in a airplane, this thing is opposite. But in this case I guess it’s more are time and money why interior is so minimal.(if he even worked it on the last night)
Anyway, as it’s not production car I see no reason to be emotional about it. As long as every curve and solution has some actual engineering reason, then it’s a Saab. If next 9-3 is child of windtunnel then it will be great.