martinsaab
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martinsaab
5 years 6 months ago

Nice… but where are YOUR pictures of the PhoeniX, Swade? 😉

jc7222
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jc7222
5 years 6 months ago
I want to like this but, I just don’t! I will keep looking at it throughout the day and maybe I’ll feel differently but, i doubt it. I hate Spyker cars; they are ugly. This reminds me more of a Spyker than a Saab. I looked up designs by this new to Saab designer and haven’t seen anything I liked. I hope the new 9-3 and future Saabs look nothing like this. I can’t think of a Saab design that I’ve like less. Man, this has me worried about Saab’s future. maybe I’m alone on this but, I’m hugely dissappointed.… Read more »
OddJob
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OddJob
5 years 6 months ago

So what did you expect?

charlie
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charlie
5 years 6 months ago

I hear you.

However:

1. I’m liking this better that the aero-x.

2.the liquid metal thing is interesting.

3. They should be more explicit in calling this a “Sonnet Concept”

There is some interesting stuff there. Imagine the roof racks as “wings”.

Jeff
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Jeff
5 years 6 months ago

Not just wings, “vestigial wings.” Brings to mind an evolutionary descent from an airplane, as if this is not quite car and not quite plane. Kind of brilliant if you ask me, one of my favorite details conceptually. Production wise, as it becomes a real car, it would of course lose the wings as it has completed its transformation into roadgoing automobile.

charlie
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charlie
5 years 6 months ago

I see your point, and it is an interesting narrative, but what I was trying to say is turn the “wings” into a roof rack. Throw a couple bars down and you can put your bike there, which is far better than any other sports car out there.

Mixed emotions on the wheels now too. Perhaps too much of a turbine?

Talladegan
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Talladegan
5 years 6 months ago

Well put. +1

Jeff
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Jeff
5 years 6 months ago

And speaking of the wings, when looking at it from a certain angle, It really reminds me of the Greek God Hermes. Again, this is more a concept and a singular being, whereas the production design elements buried within obviously won’t have the wings 😉

GerritN
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GerritN
5 years 6 months ago
Yes, the wings will (and have to) go for a production model. Initially I thought it would be a good idea to loose the whole thing, including the impalement spikes, now I’m not so sure. The rendering without the wings, etc. that you did yesterday is too empty and too much accentuates the bubble car aspect. I’m still not sure whether I like this design or not. I don’t care about the details of the old (but not too old) Saab design language, a new Saab has to emerge and if that’s done by introducing new elements then that’s fine… Read more »
Quijote
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Quijote
5 years 6 months ago
JC, I have to agree with you. I see very little, if any, Saab DNA with this concept. The Aero-X concept didn’t really look like a traditional Saab either, but somehow, it shouted SAAB. This Phoenix concept looks extreme, but at the same time very generic. Could have be practically any other car manufacturer’s concept. However, perhaps this is what SAAB was aiming for? This is a new independent SAAB, and perhaps they are looking to break away from the past and identify a new future. Let’s face it, Saab has tried to play on its past forever, and hasn’t… Read more »
WooDz
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WooDz
5 years 6 months ago
Yes I can see this concept being very generic…. Wings, Afterburners, hugely sculpted frontage, Canopy roof. Yeah, If I wasn’t mistaken I’d say this was the Citoen DS4. Only except All manufacturers have been stealing SAAB’s designs for the past 10 years now. Blacked out A-pillars, Panoramic roof, not just turbo-charging but twin-scroll to. All were available in SAAB concepts but were beaten to production from every other car company including GM, who held back and never let them be the first in anything GM made them develop. The only generic similarities the PhoeniX has is that it’s got the… Read more »
Sandy
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Sandy
5 years 6 months ago
Having again studied JC previous works (which mostly I don’t like), to me it seems this Saab concept car, the Phoenix, has more JC DNA than Saab. Still, after having seen the clip from Saab, explaining some details of the work with the Phoenix, I feel I slowly get it. This might set a new, interesting however unchartered direction for Saab and it’s design. Not nearly what I expected, but interesting, never the less… What impresses me even more, is under the skin – iQon, electric hybrid systems with the cool sounding “torque vectoring”, new turbo ICEs – the engineers… Read more »
Hans H
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Hans H
5 years 6 months ago

This is not the new 9-3. It is not even a production car. It is a show car. It is there just to scream to the world: “Saab is not dead! Saab is more alive than you could imagine! Just look here what we can do! And while you are here, take a look at the new Saab 9-5!”.

That’s what I think.
And I kind of like the design cues hiding there in plain sight. 🙂

charlie
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charlie
5 years 6 months ago

Exactly.

I think the Alfa and the A3 concept may be beating them at Geneva, but it got free PR for SAAB.

Besides, let’s be honest: You can’t reveal what they new 9-3 will look like YET. Tease us and the journalists some more.

TobiasE
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TobiasE
5 years 6 months ago

I made a picture so it is easier to compare the Aero X with the Phoenix.
I think there are some similarities between the two. Especially from the side.
The Phoenix does look very modern when you put them beside each other. I kind of like it more and more.

Quijote
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Quijote
5 years 6 months ago

Thanks Tobias.

Aero-X is soooo beautiful, despite its age it is still my favorite Saab concept.

belfast_saab
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belfast_saab
5 years 6 months ago

2 wheels, a door, that’s about it from what I can see. Aero-x still my fave, new one going to take a time – too fussy for my eyes, but it IS as concept, so I don’t mind, if it serves a prupose of getting Saab, eXWD and IQ-on noticed by the wider public today (and it is) then job done!

Andreas
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Andreas
5 years 6 months ago

Nice one! Thanx. And I agree…

charlie
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charlie
5 years 6 months ago

You picked the best mangle for the Phoenix.

From the top, it is far more radical.

However, it

1) is a real hatch
2) has brake channels for air and is more aero
3) I could see the wings mutate into roof racks very easily, and they would be interesting. A saab is not complete w/o a roof rack.

OddJob
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OddJob
5 years 6 months ago

Interesting comparison. In this angle the cars look more alike then I first thought.

Many on SU have commented that PhoeniX doesn’t have a ‘Hockey Stick’ design. But at this angle it suddenly HAS it!

maanders
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maanders
5 years 6 months ago

Yes, very interesting comparison from the side views. Hmmm…..can this be another case of it looks better in the sheet metal than in a picture? Early pictures of the new 9-5 at different angles drew a lot of negative comments too. As many have said, seeing the new 9-5 in person is a whole different experience.

All concepts are essentially experiments to see how new ideas work and how customers and the press react to them. Some will be kept, others will not.

zippy
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zippy
5 years 6 months ago

Good point re the 9-5. Its so much more beautiful in the metal.

yuros
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yuros
5 years 6 months ago

This car looks a vulgar. And not in a good Lamborghini way. There’s just too much going on. It reminds me of a Civic with an ugly body-kit. This may appeal to 15year olds but not to me.
I prefer an Aero X design.

July
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July
5 years 6 months ago

VIDEO of Saab Phoenix Concept Car on Trending Videos by http://ZOCIAL.tv

B.
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B.
5 years 6 months ago
Well I have to say I don’t agree with those saying there is very little SaabDNA in the new concept. Been looking at the picture Tobias made and I even think there is more ‘classic-Saab-DNA’ in the new one then there was in the Aero-X… Especially the front of the car with the rounded-off hood, the front and rear overhangs, the overall dimensions and ‘volumes’ (as JC calls it) seem very naturally SAAB to me. Ofcourse there is a little to much bling (the wings, rear-arangement), but if you just look at the lines, the very obvious attention to aerodynamics… Read more »
Jason Petho
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Jason Petho
5 years 6 months ago

+1

PJ
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PJ
5 years 6 months ago

I like to see more from the interior, the chairs looks promising, make me think about -70 99/900 and another swedisch brand: POC-sports.. and theres helmets 🙂
..i just get one.. 😀

ThEgg
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ThEgg
5 years 6 months ago

After looking at it more, I see this as more of a Sonnet than a 9-# car. I don’t think that’s bad at all, though. I love this look, and the only problem I had with it was the front, which makes more sense when you compare it to a Sonnet.

Looks like they’ve used more of the ancient DNA of Saab cars than the ones released in the past 20-30 years.

Manlius
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Manlius
5 years 6 months ago

Agree with you on all points.

RS
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RS
5 years 6 months ago

I disagree. Google for the black 9-3 SS side-view and you’ll be surprised. Same thing goes for the AeroX rear (which I BTW don’t like).

AyrshireXC90
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AyrshireXC90
5 years 6 months ago

I think this is a design with a lot of promise. Simplify the car and add a clamshell bonnet; that would be a car to show Audi a true TT rival (and that Peugeot wannabee). Obviously not in the fully funded business plan, but one wonders if it could a possibility in the medium term. Well done Saab/Jason (although not something I would buy – I am at the age of preferring luxury rather than sportiness!!!)
PS the led(?) aeroplane logo on the rump is wonderful!

J Fan
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J Fan
5 years 6 months ago
Well, love it or hate it, surely VM and JC knew this was going to split opinions..? I wonder if they felt the ‘design language’ of the aero-x and new 9-5 had run its course? i.e. what could they do next? Looking at the 9-5, for example, there is very little that could be changed – and I remember thinking that about Audi ten years ago. Remember the way they all had that same crease line going down the side? But then they (VW) brought in Walter da Silva from Alfa and now he’s coming up with things like the… Read more »
Saabheart
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Saabheart
5 years 6 months ago

Your last paragraph is 100% spot on.

+1

maanders
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maanders
5 years 6 months ago
I agree. I am not completely sure what I think about it yet….but I am trying not to overreact. One of the video clips here with VM has him mentioning this concept could easily morph into a type of new Sonett coupe. Looking at it that way, I am more OK with it. The original Sonett II and III were nothing like other Saabs at the time, but are no warmly considered part of Saab’s design heritage (and wasn’t the Sonett III design Italian-influenced?). I am still interested in hearing how safety features, drivetrain, etc., fit in with all the… Read more »
maanders
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maanders
5 years 6 months ago

….that should be “….but are now warmly considered….”

Ralph
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Ralph
5 years 6 months ago

By the way, the Saab 96 also has -little- wings (on its C-pillars).
I grew up with that model Saab, bu still don’t know what their function is…

Ingvar
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Ingvar
5 years 6 months ago

I think you talking about air-vents.

Ralph
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Ralph
5 years 6 months ago

Aha, a year-long uncertainty ends here at last 🙂

SasaK
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SasaK
5 years 6 months ago

I was hoping the concept will grow on me, but I am sorry to say, that the main problem with it is, that it is TASTELESS. SAABs in my view, should never be tasteless. Leaves me worried. Colors, interior, details, curves etc just too much of everything. Just TASTELESS. I am so sorry.

michaelb
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michaelb
5 years 6 months ago

+1

hilmar
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hilmar
5 years 6 months ago

Wow – this concept will hit the mark ! Perhaps they will straighten it a little because of the ice-block design ? Somehow it reminds me at Jeff´s “photoshopping” some months ago. 😉

Daniel
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Daniel
5 years 6 months ago

Dear All,

I hate it, I like it, I hate it ……
This concept made its point. It is not question do you like it or not it is question can it make all emotions to move. I think it does.
Personally I like it but I like what it makes in community.
Regards to all. Tomorrow I am in Geneva, cant wait to see it in person

Nate 9-3
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Nate 9-3
5 years 6 months ago

Be sure to tell us what you think of it in person. I am anxious to hear what you have to say.

Saabheart
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Saabheart
5 years 6 months ago
I really really like this! This is exactly what I expected from Jason Castriota. I’m not much for concept cars usually, they are just too wild, which is why I fell in love with the Aero X when I first saw it. It was the most “normal” concept car I had ever seen. As far as what it looks like, I love the wheels, the 2+2 design, and the front is awesome. The vestigial wings are a cool touch. The back is too wild for me but it’ll be toned down before it makes its way on to a production… Read more »
JH
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JH
5 years 6 months ago

This car may very well fulfill its purpose as a concept car, but if it was to be produced as it is – no thank you. If Saab was to build a small-series “halo car”, I believe the Aero X would be a better starting point.

However, I remain positive and realize that with this concept Jason Castriota was allowed to go the whole hog and make it wild and crazy. I hope and believe that the 9-3 production car will get a lot more Simon Padian-influence. 😉

Rick C
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Rick C
5 years 6 months ago
Without being overly analytical I’d have to say that on it’s own merits,as a “concept”, I like it and I commend Jason for going out on a limb, love it or hate it! My biggest gripe is that, despite finding visual referances to various bits of SAAB dna (including the EV-1) what jumped out @ me, initially, was a ’97 Mustang with, as someone else remarked, last gen Firebird taillamps! Nice designs but, at this point, not terribly original. I also don’t see, without a lot of explanation, much of the “form follows function” organic design that has, for me,… Read more »
tupolev141
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tupolev141
5 years 6 months ago

Considering dashboard lighting, these days it should not be a problem whatsoever to let the driver decide what colour he fancies for the drive. Fit red, green and blue LED’s and you can choose all the colour you like.

Marco
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Marco
5 years 6 months ago

I was thinking exactly the same. Green is for the traditional Saab driver and it has some pro’s like warning lights stick out better etc. But OTOH red is regarded as better color for the eyes in the night. Some regard it also warmer. Why not let the buyer decide…? Can’t be that expensive…besides: some people might even choose a car just because it has a certain interior and dashboard color…

Z!
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Z!
5 years 6 months ago
Sorry, I can not feel the SAAB spirit in this concept. That Saabness that made me feel something special, something personal… All of the SAABs have it, but in the Phoenix I can’t find it, no matter how hard I try… It’s all ok, if the concept has totally unbalanced proprtions, jumbled shapes (I say it as a designer), BUT it should bear the SAAB-spirit!!! 🙁 The new 9-5 has a very sophisticated, well-balanced form, like a pebble gets its form made by the river… So, it’s the hardest thing to make a shape like that!!! So, SAAB should go… Read more »
Iiari
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Iiari
5 years 6 months ago
Just to add my quick $0.02, I, on the whole, very much like and enjoy the Phoenix concept. I had hoped there would be more of an obvious narrative of design that I could see transported to production, but accept that this is going to be more of a fantasy exercise. I had expected JC to completely break with the current design language, but this quite wasn’t where I expected him to go. I like the front quite a bit, but wish it were a bit more expressive and wish the designers could find another interpretation of the Saab 3… Read more »
Greven
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Greven
5 years 6 months ago

Link to a Saab movie on the PhoeniX that I have not seen here at SA.
It´s an interview with JC…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibkRWoV241c&feature=channel

maanders
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maanders
5 years 6 months ago

Ah ha! There we have it. JC himself saying this concept draws on the Ursaab with a nod to the Sonett for its inspiration. So, we may not all agree on how well it draws from those inspirations, but the more I look at it now, the more I can see it. There are still parts I like and do not like, but I can see the thought process better now.

sven
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sven
5 years 6 months ago

Swade, you have seen pictures of the upcoming Saab 9-3 2012. Can you see a clear relationship between the 2 :, are they alot alike..? what about the back?.. I know you can talk about this…

Hada
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Hada
5 years 6 months ago

I like it when Castriota go bonkers with his imagination. I love the bravery and controversy.

I have no problem at all with the side wings, but it seems to me that Castriota could do better in terms of not putting a Christmas light in the rear end.

Cheers for SAAB Still Alive And Brave !

Tomas TL1000R
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Tomas TL1000R
5 years 6 months ago
First impression, ugly back in daylight and it´s to many angels. If it is an Sonett kind of car I can take it. Second thought, Castriota had a extremly difficult jobb to doing something better then the Aero X so he overdone it a little bit, cant blame him for that. Sorry to say that the GM Saab concept were cleaner and moore Saab to me. I can understand that JC taking the design even further but this is not Saab, it´s something els. I say exactly how a feel after first impression and that is often the best and… Read more »
Hada
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Hada
5 years 6 months ago

True Saying Sir.

It’s a Dutch SAAB as opposed to a Swedish SAAB.

Cheers.

Sebbe
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Sebbe
5 years 6 months ago

“our aeronautical roots”? really?
The Italian has been in Saab for like the past 5 seconds and he suddenly is part of the company’s soul?
Well, he has some nerves!

“oneness”? Is that even a word?

maanders
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maanders
5 years 6 months ago

I think you are being a little harsh. He is the head of Saab design now so he is speaking in terms of Saab’s heritage. Wasn’t part of what we did not like about GM’s stewardship of Saab is they did not appreciate or understand Saab’s heritage?

He stated in the video that the Ursaab was all about aerodynamic shape and function, coming from the early Saab engineers’ experience with aircraft design. Whether you like this concept or not, there is definitely Ursaab influence in it.

turbin
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turbin
5 years 6 months ago

To be fair Sebbe his family had Saabs for years and his first and second cars were Saabs. He is also a New Yorker for what it’s worth. He is also a core member of the Saab team. What else do you want??

Talladegan
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Talladegan
5 years 6 months ago

First look I was unconvinced on the ‘Saabness’ of it.

The more I look the more I begin to ‘get it’ and like it.

This has always been the same for me with all my own Saabs.

Perhaps that is part of the secret?

Tomas TL1000R
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Tomas TL1000R
5 years 6 months ago
What is the key here? It is an bold design study all can agree on that, but if you mix this concept with Aero X/NG9-5 it could work. For example, ease up the back of the car and get rid of the carbon and get back to the 9-5 light it´s another rear. The side of the car has gills and that belongs only in an supercar, not in an “ordinary” 9-3. Mix the front with NG9-5 so it similar to current (new Saab 9-5 front). Don´t use the horrible hubcap-like rims, pick something from the past. Frankly this scares… Read more »
Charles
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Charles
5 years 6 months ago

+1

Nate 9-3
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Nate 9-3
5 years 6 months ago

I am beginning to wonder if this car had a dual purpose; that of creating a WOW statement (check) and gauging how far the SAAB faithful will go with the radical design language. Recall when VM first started talking about the 92. It was more gimmicky at first and the theoretical car has become more traditional over time. I think that if you water this down a bit you can make one heck of a NG 9-3, and I am willing to bet that is what is going to happen.

Hada
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Hada
5 years 6 months ago

Final Thought:

I think of this as a Sexy Swedish. Done. Love it, props to Jason Castriota for making an unprecedented car.

Cheers

Thylmuc
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Thylmuc
5 years 6 months ago

Liquid metal, surface entertainment (BMW), crystalline (Renault), arts and science (Cadillac), call it what you want, in the end it is about a trend towards technically superfluous surface shapes. These are very much against scandinavian design traditions. The Phoenix also has some US muscle car elements to it (as all Castriota designs have?). Overall, imho a very American design. I wonder if the US readers on this site tend to like it more than the Europeans. In the end, I believe that BMW americanised their design too, in order to sell more cars in the US.

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