I’ve got gas! A SaabsUnited Test Drive

Sorry but I just couldn´t resist that headline.

Why? Well because of the car I picked up today Courtesy of ANA Trollhättan and Special Vehicles section ANA Specialbilar….

….The Saab 9-3SC BioPower Biogas TriFuel 🙂 … In Black

I didn´t go on a long drive today though… but I will most certainly get to that during the week. One thing that I Can say this early on is that the transition between Gas and Ethanol is seemless and power in Biogas mode is just as powerful as when running on Ethanol. Picture shows the combined on/off button and gauge for Biogas mode

I will get to the specifics later in the week together with loads of pictures, all I can say now is.. Wow! And that if you live in Sweden, please visit your local dealer or look up Superb Salesmen Richard Nilsson or Claes Robertsson at ANA Trollhättan for a quote, Testdrive and order of a whole fleet of these cars.  😉

More to come later in the week. So stay tuned to SaabsUnited.com

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A Huge thank you all at ANA Trollhättan for making this possible!

A thank you also goes to Salesman Mathias Lundberg at BIVA Uppsala for looking out for the vehicle after it arrived in Uppsala with vehicle transport from ANA Trollhättan and handing over the keys to an eager SaabsUnited writer.

Bravada from GMI
Member
5 years 4 months ago
THIS is the real news, not the EV. Sadly, it only gets a snippet on SU with a unassuming photo, and not the royal treatment Swade did to the ePower on InsideSaab. I know it’s ANA skunkworks vs. the mighty EIB-financed Saab, but THIS is the future. I really wish Saab would start building standard CNG versions of their vehicles, not only dealer-built conversions, and get rid of the awful BRC button in favour of nice dash integration (plus some better idea regarding tank placement, although ANA did a brilliant job nonetheless considering it’s just a conversion). I also wish… Read more »
w3c validator
Guest
5 years 4 months ago

Excuse me, but regarding your first comment, please read again what Tompa has written in the end: “More to come later in the week.” And what does that mean?

This is really important and I do wish we had these cars at my job since we have pretty good supply of biogas here in the city where I live. I’ll wait for more information from Tompa regarding this beauty.

Bravada from GMI
Member
5 years 4 months ago

Oh manure, I was too quick to comment… My apologies.

At any rate, I always get so worked up about CNG. I firmly believe THIS is the fuel of the future, not hydrogen, ethanol or some mysteriously-generated electricity from a socket in the wall. I so want Saab to be a champion thereof.

I am very much looking forward to more from Tompa! Great to hear more is coming! Please make sure to take ample photos of the trunk arrangement and your thoughts on the practical utility of it.

w3c validator
Guest
5 years 4 months ago

Haha… I guess it was something like that… like a child seeing Santa Claus out in the snow and totally forgets about the big sack of gifts he just left at the door. 😉
I’m also very excited, and I agree with you about a future fuel for cars. Or let’s say.. one of the best alternative fuels for cars, since we humans produce tons of waste every day that can be used to things like this.

Red J
Member
5 years 4 months ago

Bravada,
I don’t know if you noticed, but all started with some ANA built conversions on demand. Now the model is available at any dealer with, iirc, Saab as distributor.
Maybe if this series work well the next step will be a factory build tri-fuel application.
For now it is OK that they use the expertise of ANA Specialbilar to do the conversion.

rostnes
Member
5 years 4 months ago

Nice Tompa, looking forward to reading the articles that follows.
But, does this mean that my brand new 9-3 SS 1.9 TTid that I´m picking up tomorrow is out of date already :-/ ?

Khrisdk
Member
5 years 4 months ago

Yes please, get Biogas going i Sweden.
Then Haldor Topsøe can make some money for DK whilst Vestas goes down.
And then please let the Danish Government know that both Bioethanol and Biogas is actually good, so we can get it here.

RobinM
Member
5 years 4 months ago

Be good to her,,,,,,

MickeSch
Member
5 years 4 months ago

Tompa, I will keep my eyes open for your ride-of-the-week, as I also live in Uppsala! I sure hope to see you. 🙂

Thylmuc
Member
5 years 4 months ago
Can’t see any significant future here, sorry. Methane in general is just another fossile fuel, a bit better in regards carbon dioxide, as more of the energy is obtained by breaking up C-H bonds, but still fossile. Methane produced from organic residuals is also not the solution: -the amounts needed cannot be synthesized by using human waste, nor by any other approach (I am pretty sure on this, because I did estimates on biodiesel and agroethanol, and those turned out to be not feasible) -the organic material used is even further depleted, instead of being somehow returned to nature’s cycle,… Read more »
Bravada from GMI
Member
5 years 4 months ago
Methane is not a fossil fuel. It’s ubiquitous. The name “biogas” is used for methane (or rather natural gas, which is a mixture of methane and other hydrocarbons + CO and CO2) generated biologically especially for commercial utilization. I am not really sure why you would apply your calculations regarding ethanol, which is “expensive” to manufacture both in terms of energy and matter, to ethanol. Just count your carbon and hydrogen, and calorific value, and you will see that from the same feedstock you actually can get much more “mileage” if you simply convert it to biogas using e.g. natural… Read more »
Thylmuc
Member
5 years 4 months ago
I could fart as much as I want, that will not drive my car ;-). And that’s the problem. Of course there is a lot of biogenic methane, but it cannot be channelised into a sufficiently pure fuel without ruining the environment. There simply is no such thing as a free lunch when using eco systems. A hstorical example might be forest grazing of cattle. At the period when this was done (in Bavaria) the trees showed reduced growth, as shown by their growth rings. Most people still do not recognise the scale of our fossile fuel consumption: 800 kg… Read more »
Thylmuc
Member
5 years 4 months ago

Addendum: I am not a proponent of LPG either. I was just contemplating that most gas cars will end up being fuelled by fossile gas, due to the constraints in producing biomethane. In this case, LPG would have bern more _practical_.

Khrisdk
Member
5 years 4 months ago

I am not too sure of the numbers but I think that Haldor Topsøe calculated about 25% of car consumption could be covered by waste products from the paper industry in Sweden
And they have some other nice ways of extracting and synthesizing fuels.
I expect a lot of HT and their TREMP and TIGAS processes.
And I do think they have competitors also working very hard on this

Thylmuc
Member
5 years 4 months ago
Couldn’t find information on Wkipedia, showing my laziness. So I can’t comment on these processes in particular. However, quite generally, biological processes will result in impure products with mediocre yields. It is of course possible to increase purity and yield, but according to the law of enthropy, this will require energy. A typical case is oil from plants. Impure, and most of the plant is not oil. It can be purified, as e.g, is done with biodiesel, that, by the way, requires a chemical process to make it usable in Diesel engines. Similar with ethanol. After it was found out… Read more »
peeceepeh
Member
5 years 4 months ago
I see two fundamental problems with the battery technology. One is that one has to still carry around one’s battery even when it’s discharged. Plus you have to carry all the ingredients. With (whatever) fuel, it’s different: you do not have to carry the oxygen, plus you do not have to carry back the co2 (or the water, if you have a fuel cell). Two is that once (after a couple of years, I guess, just think of your cellphone) you have to replace your battery pack, you have to extract all those really dangerous materials to recycle. Although that… Read more »
Thylmuc
Member
5 years 4 months ago
Would agrre to explore seveeal approaches, but the calculation results I got for biofuels were so totally out of frame that in those cases, I would suggest to have a very thorough look before spending to much money. E.g. according to my calculation, when producing ethanol with using nothing but itself (i.e. Basing the energy required for transporting, preparing, destilling etc. also purely on ethanol, 80% of the landmass of earth might be required. I am pretty sure that even one tenth of this would not be available. At one time, I was also intrigued by the idea to synthesize… Read more »
m!ko
Member
5 years 4 months ago

Can they run on LPG as well on CNG? The LPG network is very good in Poland, we drive them a lot. Shame that Saab has so poor marketing in our country :/

Bravada from GMI
Member
5 years 4 months ago

The marketing might be poor, but the sales are going on strong. LPG is fundamentally different from CNG, and it requires a different installation. LPG is only marginally cleaner than petroleum and other benefits are also marginal, only the favorable taxation works to its advantage.

Not to mention LPG stinks 😉

Network development is a major issue, and this is where the authorities need to step in.

m!ko
Member
5 years 4 months ago
I’ve heard, that in modern instalations, only difference is tank, and all the wires and plugs can work both on LPG and CNG. True, that the biggest reason people choose LPG, is price around 50% less, than petrol. Taht’s why sometimes LPG is called the petrol for poor, and there are many stereotypes grown around it. BTW, we could have a better sales, if our government offered some tax discount, like they have in GB for under 120g/CO TTiD version. But the truth is, we’re 10 steps behind europe, because of our politicians. I wonder how they will work on… Read more »
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