Enforcement Agency Procedure
July 25, 2011 in News
The swedish enforcement agency has said to DN (original article here) that the procedure for them now is to look at Saab’s bank accounts to check if there is any cash available. If not they will claim the amounts in hardware from Saab.
The largest debt out of the 104 cases is a total of 44 million SEK from IAC, is NOT one of the cases now being looked at!
SaabMan said on July 25, 2011
In the previous post there were 40 cases before the Swedish enforcement agency, but it looks here to be 104. That’s a big difference. Is there any indication of what the grand total amount owed is to those trying to force payment? The 44 million SEK owed to IAC is not all that much, really for an auto manufacturer ($7 million US/4.8 million Euros). But, 104 cases of amounts nearing that would be a whole lot. It’s probably good they paid the employees first.
Carl-Henrik said on July 25, 2011
There are a total of 104 cases, but only 40 of them have reached the deadline for this procedure today.
terry9000k said on July 25, 2011
If this is the case, is this not showing preference to the 40 now & the total of 104 cases may happen later.
This surely would not be legal in law!!…..
SaabMan said on July 25, 2011
Having read the Dagens Nyheter article, it looks like the 41 are cases that Saab is not contesting in any way. But there are others (the rest of the 104?) that Saab has raised questions about, so they won’t go forward until a further investigation is conducted. That’s my sense from reading the article, but I may have misunderstood as I read a translated version. DN is tough for my Swedish abilities.
Carl-Henrik said on July 25, 2011
SaabMan’s comment to yours is a good answer. I also want to add that all the claims haven’t been filed the exact same date, so there is a difference in that as well that be one of the factors that only 40 of them have come this far today.
lol said on July 25, 2011
What does it mean exactly Tim ? Is there any delay anounced?
I’ve got another question TIM.
Some days ( weeks?) ago, after a conf call with US retailers, you told us that you were very optimistic because there were a plan you couldn’t coment.
Can you just tell us, if this plan is always achievable ? soon… or not ?
Thanks for the great job you and the team are doing !
turbofever said on July 25, 2011
Hello!
Still working hard to leave EIB, I hope the soloution is near.
http://www.dn.se/ekonomi/saab-forsoker-lamna-eib
Carl-Henrik said on July 25, 2011
Yes, we have covered that story yesterday (Sunday) with this post:
http://www.saabsunited.com/2011/07/swedish-radio-p4-west-hope-for-saab.html
ANA said on July 25, 2011
Not good…
GrumpyGriffin said on July 25, 2011
The most disheartening thing is that it’s hard to tell whether Saab has a coherent plan to deal with all these issues as they crop up or is Muller simply making it up as he goes along, one would hope and expect that there is some grand plan being used to bring forth Saab from out of the brown smelly stuff, but I am sure most of us have our doubts?
Nate 9-3 said on July 25, 2011
VM cannot be Chairman and CEO under normal circumstances, let alone these extrordinary circumstances. Too many hats during a time of crisis.
skwdenyer said on July 25, 2011
Why not? There isn’t much long-term Chairmanship needed right now, just down-and-dirty street-fighting for survival. Much more flexible IMHO.
Don’t forget that any major changes would have to be approved by the SWAN board in any case, as well as – in some circumstances – NDO / EIB / GM / etc., so I don’t really see any major problem here.
I suspect the problem would be solvable by VA demonstrating the existence of a chunk of cash and a willingness to put it in this week in return for the stated terms. Without that, and without any other white knights, reaching the other side will require the cunning of a solo entrepreneur, not the dull hand of a board of directors!
Nate 9-3 said on July 25, 2011
Fighting for survival is one thing that VM is good for. However, who is taking care of issues in house regarding the supplier deals? This crisis has shown me that internally, SAAB is prone to make errors. Granted, these are extreme circumstances, but how many times have we been told that an issue is done, and it will never be an issue again…only to have the same thing come up again with another supplier, bank, government office.
VM is a great THINK BIG kind of guy. I have never seen anyone else like him. However, several fine details have been missed during this crisis. That’s where a CEO could button things up inside the shop.
SaabMan said on July 25, 2011
Far be it from me to make suggestions about how to run a Swedish auto maker. However, I have to agree that VM seems great at organizing big important partnerships and agreements, but that there is trouble on the day to day scene, Remember this news from April 1 (reported in an article in The Local): “Saab spokesman Eric Geers denied the carmaker had liquidity problems. ‘We have no liquidity problems. What is happening right now are discussions between us and suppliers. There are always two sides in negotiations,’ he told the TT news agency.” In the months since, we have learned that this was not true (or if it was true at the time, the situation changed very quickly) to the crisis we are in now. While it would be difficult to find the kind of CEO needed at this critical time, there must be someone out there who could work with VM as CEO to steer Saab through these stormy waters.
terry9000k said on July 25, 2011
If the Law is the same in Sweden, as in the UK, a Sole director cannot also be the Co secretary.
In a UK, PLC company the roles are Chairman & CEO can sometimes be both, but it is not regarded as good company conveyance.
Galway-Saab said on July 25, 2011
You mean Governance ?
skwdenyer said on July 25, 2011
Not quite as clear-cut as that. A private company no longer needs a Company Secretary, but a Public Company (plc) does. Saab is not a plc in this sense (SWAN is), but I don’t know Swedish company law. Does Saab (a) need and (b) have a Company Secretary at all right now?
skwdenyer said on July 25, 2011
The agency are moving-forward on just 8 of the claims; the other 34 have decided to wait and see.
Reported on just-auto
Khrisdk said on July 25, 2011
Yes, that is correct.
The decisions today establishes that all claims are legitimate and accepted by Saab.
This secures the rights of those owed money.
They can now decide to actually go forward and have Kronofogden collect the money.
Only 8 of the total 42 have decided to do this.
The remaining 34 could very well use this as as basis for negotiations.
skwdenyer said on July 25, 2011
In other news, the sometimes-unreliable China Car Times says Saabs to be made in Tianjin City
If I were to lay odds, I’d say Swedish production won’t restart anytime soon, leaving Saab as a virtual car company with vehicles produced by GM and Youngman. I hope not, but I suspect they might just have enough money left to get manufacturing shut down in Sweden before gong bankrupt in the process.
The Swedish Government et al will, IMHO, have only themselves to blame if that happens.
mange1975 said on July 25, 2011
http://www.e24.se/multimedia/archive/00241/Saabs_skulder_241238a.pdf
hilmar said on July 25, 2011
Whew – getting dizzy reading all this and trying to understand – took some beer but still don´t not solve that problem.
%-) and :#)
dave said on July 25, 2011
hilmar said on July 25, 2011
Sorry – DO NOT solve that problem.
zippy said on July 25, 2011
It seems that all the money they got over the past four months seems to have gone leaving the company right back where it started in late March. Saab needs a HUGE amount of money ie more than VA can bring to the table. Im not liking the look of this but I sure hope I am wrong.
CurtInFalcon said on July 25, 2011
Unfortunately, I think you’re correct, Zippy. I think Saab is so far behind on its payments to suppliers that even VA doesn’t have enough cash to get things going again. It’s too little, too late – even if VA can invest. I think Saab is done.
Khrisdk said on July 25, 2011
I think you both forget that this is not only VA, but also China.
I would expect the combined effort to be able to carry Saab a long way.
zippy said on July 26, 2011
I see the Chinese buying Saab outright.
twirix said on July 26, 2011
If they really want to do that they will get it for less money if they wait for bankruptcy. A side effect of waiting for that is of course lack of faith from both the customers and suppliers but it can’t really go lower than this anyway.
Mynoob said on July 25, 2011
Realistically, at this point, more than 1 billion € I’d say. But if someone is willing to invest that kind of money we’re home free
.
Khrisdk said on July 25, 2011
500 Mill to pay off EIB and GM and 500 Mill to get things going..Yup..
Until then I think a little lesss will do
hilmar said on July 25, 2011
Khrisdk – now we do need your abilities as a psychic …. ??
Khrisdk said on July 26, 2011
Swedish beer will get you nowhere
No psychic stuff, but I would recommend this for a better nights sleep
twirix said on July 25, 2011
Yes that is about what it takes for now but Saab will need new fresh money on a regular basis. Anyone who knows somebody willing to give away 5 billion MSEK per year?
Khrisdk said on July 25, 2011
Yup
Patrik B said on July 25, 2011
Great! Can you give them a call?
Please hurry…
Khrisdk said on July 25, 2011
I think someone else has already made that call.
I’ll just wait and see the transition of things.
And then I just feel like quoting Oddball:
“Why don’t you knock it off with them Negative waves”
Patrik B said on July 25, 2011
Sorry about the sarcastic vibe. I just started thinking about how the shortage of spare parts could effect our new 9-3 Aero if we were to have a fender bender. I will drive more careful now…
But, even if I do try to stay positive it seems that the final master plan needs to be executed now. I can’t see Saab surviving any longer on quick fixes. Those days are over. There are many great things in the future for Saab (Pang Da, Youngman, Antonov, 9-5 SC, etc) but that is all in the future and Saab have major problems today.
Still hoping for the best but also feeling nauseous!
Khrisdk said on July 25, 2011
One thing is for sure:
Saab is too good to let fall.
All involved parties knows this.
And actually the Oddball quote wasn’t directed at you..it was more of a general observation
Grumpy said on July 26, 2011
I know your comment is meant to be a stab at all Saab enthusiasts but this time it seems you missed with your scornful remark.
The idea, and that is the idea with any business, also with Saab, is to make enough profit that you don’t need billions of SEK every year. Saab had such a plan and it failed for a number of reasons. However, there is nothing in the past of Saab, nothing that allegedly happened during the last twenty years that prohibits them from making a profit in the future.
I still can’t see what kind of kicks anybody can get from spitting on Saab or dissing the products, usually without any knowledge or experience.
Perhaps you can share your wisdom.
SO Twirix if your not part of the solution you are probably part of the problem. If you and your ilk wouldn’t have spread your hate infested diatribe for the last two years perhaps Saab would be in a different position. Have no doubt, I do beleive negative propagand works better than positive and you, among a group of others, apparently has made it your life quest to bring down Saab. Two things to that:
1. Good luck, we will fight you, and
2. If you succeed, I hope you feel very good when thousands of people loses their jobs and your precious taxpayer’s money must be spent for real.
74StingSaab said on July 25, 2011
yes, Id have to agree….. wanna go get drunk?
Carl-Henrik said on July 25, 2011
There is no point in speculating. All we can do is sit back and observe what is going on right now. We have to little facts to be able to draw any conclusions.
Yes, the situation isn’t good.
Yes, we do not know everything.
Yes, there are people working to solve this in the best possible way.
Khrisdk said on July 25, 2011
+1
Toby K said on July 25, 2011
my hair has fallen out, where’s the beer?
till72 said on July 26, 2011
The beer’s there, but there’s hair in it.
Red J said on July 26, 2011
C’mon guys,
this thread looks like a funeral.
Did somebody else, besides hilmar read that pdf from mange1975 ?
We are not talking about a HUGE amount of money, (about 677.000 EUR) most of it being 3 different debts to a single company (Kongsberg Automotive)
BTW, I3TEX is not among the 5 companies willing the enforcement agency to proceed.
ANA said on July 26, 2011
It is not just the supplier debts mentioned, there are also salaries and running costs of a business that is not generating funds. We do not have the full picture of the financial pressure that Saab are undoubtedly under – that said I still haven’t given up hope.
twirix said on July 26, 2011
and not to mention increasing costs of interest rates for all the loans and debts.
Red J said on July 26, 2011
And this is the key. We don’t need to loose hair of finance the brewing industry, because nothing extremely bad has happened today. For me it looks like most of the suppliers are trying to get Saab up and running once again, so put the bubbly in the fridge and leave the beer for another day.
No 9 said on July 26, 2011
What’s in the pdf? It won’t download for me.
Red J said on July 26, 2011
It was the list of the 42 different debts, with all the information available.
Bouwe said on July 26, 2011
People, heads up!
I remember very well when the first Saab Convoy was organized. I show-cased my old Saab 900 and I participated in the daily organization a bit. Saab was considered nearly dead, and all the problems with GM seemed like unsolvable. We didn’t accept that a special brand as Saab was given a silent death, and all around the world they followed that crazy idea! It gave VM and JAJ (and the rest of the team) the belief that they did it for people, not just a piece of gathered plastic and metal. We were sweating, were anxious.. but didn’t give up. Since then we’ve seen so many problems and Saab still manages to keep its head up. So should the community… I’m not naive, but I’ve come across very creative problem handling by VM and the team, I am convinced that they will be tackling this one. They should be backed up by us!
Come on ladies and gents, don’t give up. Saab is too cool for that.
skwdenyer said on July 26, 2011
I agree on so many levels. But, in that case, we need more Saab convoys! Convoys to the suppliers’ offices, for instance? To the EIB. To the Swedish Government. To GM. Anywhere a show of strength, and some media coverage, can do some good.
Right now there is a vacuum. No Swade, no VM, no JAJ, no visible support for Saab. Perhaps we need this now more than it was needed back then?
Y2K said on July 26, 2011
SAAB don’t need convoys, the need cash now!
So why don’t u all put in some money on their account right now …
Yes, from your private savings instead of begging money from GM or the Swedish taxpayers!
Guess why there is vacuum … Muller is gone with the cash and the underpinned contractors are pissed off because they don’t get paid!
How about a facebook group where people can contribute from there own savings as a change?
twirix said on July 26, 2011
Hold your horses, there are a lot of supporters of Saab but they don’t want to pay for their hobby themselves, it’s much easier to request that some else opens the pocket.
Leeloo said on July 26, 2011
Completely right! Muller is “gone” with the cash from the sale of the properties, GEM loan, China money etc. The cash is most likely now in the deep pockets of Spyker, transfered with the help of invoices from Spyker to Saab for a number of management services etc.. easy done, nothing illegal.
The proof of this is that Saab wasn’t even able to pay the suppliers last friday when the deadline was for the swedish enforcement agency to take action. This is the LAST, very LAST, option Saab ever would have to accept, to allow the enforcement agency to review and dig in the Saab accounts as they want in the search for money. Saab has now nothing to do about this, they can do nothing, a very bad situation. They can just sit and watch while the enforcement agency take what they like, cash, machinery or what ever can bring a value in cash.
And this situation can only be caused by the fact that there IS no money to get. Any where is the money then if it’s not within Saab anymore?
The company is more or less bankrupt while Muller is laughing all the way to the bank… this was the plan from the beginning, its just that you guys didn’t see it, blinded by your love for the Saab brand.
Khrisdk said on July 26, 2011
For your eyes only
Jeff said on July 26, 2011
No, no, and no. The Saab community is about to have a very direct way to help their company, and it’s going to be coming through SU and our members. Stay tuned for posts tomorrow and later this weekend.
RS said on July 26, 2011
If all those who have a Saab on order would pay as little as 1000 euro in advance directly to THN, they’d probably have no trouble keeping all the rest of the suppliers onboard.
What ever happens Saab AB MUST keep the small guys that depend on Saab alive. Just look what happened when the company that was going to deliver the upgraded fascia went under last year.
skwdenyer said on July 26, 2011
Good. To Chris’ points a little further up, 1 and 2 are obvious. As to 3, what is ‘the best possible way’? Is what is best for SWAN the same as what is best for Saab? Is what is best for Saab the same as what is best for Trollhattan?
As I mentioned above, I can imagine a situation whereby Saab ceases to manufacture in Sweden: the suppliers and the regulatory climate are not kind right now. Instead, they become a designer, with manufacture outsourced to China, GM in Mexico, perhaps Valmet / Steyr, and so on.
Would this be best for Saab? Possibly. Would this be best for SWAN? Quite probably. Would it be best for Trollhattan? Of course not. Is there enough money to realise this?
The only misstep that VM seems to have made in this whole saga is not to separate out the manufacturing business from the design / development / IP operation. Had he done this, he could have pursued a future for Saab which separated it from local manufacturing. Would we have cried? Of course we would, but at least Saab – in one form or another – would have survived. But – shock! horror! – VM seems to have wanted to maintain Saab in its current form, not run off with the cash!
First time around, whilst GM were busy with their long knives, VM would regularly update Swade – and sometimes other journalists – with his thoughts and objectives. This time around, for obvious reasons, that is not the case. I must say that VM was very smart to put Swade on the payroll
At a time like this, what we don’t need are too many renditions of the old ‘keep calm and carry on’ mantra; what we need (even if we don’t want to hear what they have to say) are sources within the company. Can any comment be elicited from VM? Can anything be gleaned from other sources? What is happening in government?
If there is to be a future for Saab then, right now, we – ‘the faithful’ – need to hear it. We need to believe it, and we need to preach it from the rooftops. Saab cannot afford expensive PR or advertising, but it has a huge resource at its disposal. I would have hoped that Swade could have tried to mobilise this through Inside Saab – perhaps it would have been better for Saab to sponsor SU rather than making Swade an employee with all of the hurdles that entails? – but that seems not to be.
So what to do? Where to go? Nature abhors a vacuum; in the absence of something – anything – to think about for the future, the community is immobilised and impotent to help.