Press Release: Saab delays wages for white-collar employees
July 26, 2011 in News
Zeewolde, The Netherlands, 26 July 2011 – Swedish Automobile N.V. (Swan) announces that Saab Automobile AB (Saab Automobile) has delayed payment of the wages to its white-collar employees as some of the funds that were committed by investors were not paid in time to effect such salary payments. Saab Automobile is taking all necessary actions to collect these funds and continues discussions with various parties to obtain additional short-term funding so that the payments can be made.
Swan will update the market of any new developments.
Obviously, this is bad news but given the day to day liquidity issues at Saab that we’re well familiar with, this isn’t necessarily huge news. I’m not trying to downplay this move, but it’s seems less severe than the last wage delay, and it shows that the executives are taking responsibility and the hardest hit first. The news that Youngman, Pang Da, and Saab will be meeting this week to inject new liquidity into Saab (covered in the next article) is welcome news which we all hope pans out. The second to last sentence of the press release seems to confirm that.
Grumpy said on July 26, 2011
I guess, ‘not good’ would be a bit of an understatement
KarlR said on July 26, 2011
I Have nothing to say anymore!! The pressrelease speaks for itself!!
ANA said on July 26, 2011
@Jeff
I beg to differ but this is ‘huge news’.
Jeff said on July 26, 2011
I wouldn’t have posted it if it wasn’t news, I’m just saying that I expect a lot more news like this until the sun comes out again. Six months ago I’d agree with you, this would have been a huge deal. Given the context, I think this is par for the course.
KarlR said on July 26, 2011
I agree it’s huge news.
Jeff said on July 26, 2011
Apparently, you do.
KarlR said on July 26, 2011
I prefer when Swade had the site then the writers didn’t have such big egos and atitude!!
Jeff said on July 26, 2011
No attitude, you just bring a certain argumentative tone to the comments policy that Swade certainly advocated against. Words matter.
JasonPowell said on July 26, 2011
Sorry KarlR, what you saw as attitude, I saw as humor and it made me smile.
gryphon95 said on July 26, 2011
My heart really goes out to all of the SAAB employees (like swade) who are personally impacted by this horrible turn of events.
While I am just an owner and am only emotionally impacted by the litany of horribles over the last few months, I really can’t come to this site any more. The parade of depressing news is just too much. I’ll always keep my 2001 SAAB 9-3 (my “forever” car, as I call it). However, as soon as the lease is up on my 2010 SAAB 9-5, I think I will need to get off the SAAB roller coaster of depression.
KarlR said on July 26, 2011
I will do the same! I like my SAAB but when I change car next time I will swap to something else.
Grumpy said on July 26, 2011
Good for you Karl, why don’t you trawl a few forums for other manufacturers already in advance.
I can understand that you are upset, we invest ourselves in this company. But it is no need to go all negative, put on a pott of coffee or whateverand take a deep breath.
KarlR said on July 26, 2011
Im not upset. Just sad and why dont you jump at gryphon95? Please go and hide for awhile!
Grumpy said on July 26, 2011
If your not upset I don’t what the complaining is about, Heck I’m upset.
What I’m trying to say is that if you or gryphon95 or anybody finds themselves fed up with the situation and wnat to get off the bandwagon then do so, don’t linger and turn all sour.
I for one still believe there is a way forward and it iwll be interesting to see how it goes. And even if I would be interested in getting another brand after my current Saab I am not sure how telling everybody on this forum about it helps.
Now I can go and hide if you want.
KarlR said on July 26, 2011
This is more and more like a joke both for SAAB and this site!! If you are not 100% commited Im not allowed to speak anymore??? What the heck! I don’t want to put my money in to what I belive is a sinking ship and if Im not allowed to say that on this site please say that in the rules that only positive comments about SAAB can be made!!
I love my SAAB 9-3 SC Vector! But I wouldn’t swap to a SAAB next time and if Im not allowed to say that please state it in the rules and I will be gone from here asap.
Grumpy said on July 26, 2011
Sorry KarlR, I overstepped. You are obviosuly a great guy after all you drive a Saab and that counts a long way..
Would you consider getting a new car if the company, against ALL odds actually would survive?
BoeBoe said on July 26, 2011
Now SAAB knows how their suppliers are feeling for the past couple of months…
Tobias-A said on July 26, 2011
I hope that Saab will solve the payment very soon and also that not the engineers will loose faith and turn to Volvo Cars that is currently hunting for engineers like crazy.
Saab Up!!
Baracuda said on July 26, 2011
I don’t think its that huge news. It’s the weekly “shocker”. Nothing more nothing less. When the Youngman people already in another round of negotiations they seem positive. They will never let this big possibility go with a bang. I think they will place another order or different form of financial help to provide saab. And in the long term we will see the chinese companies as the owners of saab.
scottishsaab said on July 26, 2011
If i was an employee of saab i would of been long gone by now not getting paid or late paid 2 months in a row!! But we can’t really expect anything less from saab at the moment they have managed to blag their way through this for the best part of 4 months!!
KarlR said on July 26, 2011
+1
Troels, Denmark said on July 26, 2011
Fortunately most of the Saab-employees seems to be of a more loyal and idealistic nature…- which I appreciate very much.
Marque said on July 26, 2011
+10
ryanonsrc said on July 26, 2011
+10
Baracuda said on July 26, 2011
No one has not get paid yet. Last month they got their money all in time.
And last time the Blue Collars shouldn’t get their money and this time the white collars are the parties involved
Anders said on July 26, 2011
Despite all the shit happening, I love my company and my fellow workers. I have sacrificed a lot to be here but I wouldn’t change a thing. I haven’t got paid this month and that sucks big time, but it would suck even more to work for a company that I have no emotional connection to.
I am staying here until my keycard is no longer working.
No 9 said on July 26, 2011
Hats off to you sir.
Johan said on July 26, 2011
Indeed, hats off.
twirix said on July 26, 2011
No hat off from me. It would be much better if you pulled yourself together and found a real job.
—
Twirix, this is a personal attack, and nothing that belongs to this site, if you have a problem with people that think Saab is worth fighting for, please feel free to leave this site.
//RedJ
No 9 said on July 26, 2011
If I was moderator, you would have been barred a long time ago.
Khrisdk said on July 26, 2011
Well..black hats can stay on..Just don’t choke on your Holier than Thou rethorics.
Troels, Denmark said on July 26, 2011
What sad(istic) comments you make twirix!
twirix said on July 26, 2011
Sometimes reality is sad but it won’t get any better to stick your head in the sand and request that every one who is not a yes sayer is thrown out.
Wake up and grab your self together.
Khrisdk said on July 26, 2011
No. We actually enjoy your company.
I do miss the more interesting naysayers though.
Those with something to say about Saab rather than a general perception about politics, economics and people.
Troels, Denmark said on July 26, 2011
Dear twirix!
I think you missed my point. Off-course the situation around Saab is sad and off-course I don’t want to stick my head in the sand and I have never said anything about you should be thrown out.
But my comment was on you and the respect-less way you choose to make your comment.
Anders said on July 26, 2011
I am as pulled together as I can, thank you.
I have met far too many like you to even bother anymore. I don’t live my life making only rational decisions. Sometimes you have to do what you want. I am not planning to die bored. Call me a stupid hippie, I don’t mind. If SAAB goes down, at least I did everything I could.
twirix said on July 26, 2011
No if you haven’t solved your situation you haven’t pulled your self together yet.
But if you chose not to bother and in stead do what you want, i.e.stay home not working, don’t come and ask for sympathy or help later either. If you see the situation and don’t take responsibility you have to bear the consequences your self. I only feel sympathy for your kids (if you have any) who will also have to take the consequences of your lack of responsibility.
Marvel, everyone. Marvel at the self-destruction witnessed above. That my friends is why we let hate-filled people dig their own graves. For all the back and forth emotion exhibited in these comments, this comment is the proof that stupidity will end up biting its own ass. -Jeff
Khrisdk said on July 26, 2011
He..You’re so pre-occupied with other peoples choices.
Now, that’s not very liberal is it? (Both US and Euro-Style)
GerritN said on July 26, 2011
Twirix: as far as I’m concerned you have crossed the line here. This is a personal attack on Anders, one his principles and on his family. I suggest to the moderators that they give you a chance to apologize or get barred from commenting.
twirix said on July 26, 2011
I beg ti differ GerritN, if Anders and his was your personal friend would you just agree with him then even if it would cause him harm not to deal with the situation?
A real friend sometimes need to disagree with the friend.
GerritN said on July 26, 2011
Twirix: if Anders would be my personal friend then I would respect his decision. Btw, the keyword here is personal. This is a public forum, so you should refrain from personal remarks and especially from comments like yours which show a total lack of personal respect.
Khrisdk said on July 26, 2011
Remind me not to make friends with you.
Somehow you remind me of Greyface.
Tripod said on July 26, 2011
OK, twirix, you have now crossed all boundaries; you knew nothing but still you said: “But if you chose not to bother and in stead do what you want, i.e.stay home not working, don’t come and ask for sympathy or help later either.”
Other people here *do know*, or have read comments from “Anders” earlier; it is you who is ignorant, insulting, and writing libels.
You have made your point, been allowed to repeat it tenfold, and what do you do? You insult people. Now sod off.
WM said on July 26, 2011
Hats off to you, Twirix. You are both a troll and a worldclass d-bag. Seriously.
Anders said on July 26, 2011
TWIRIX: Not working? I’m sorry, I work ten hours a day, during vacation, right now without pay, to finish the 9-3. Is that what you’re calling not working?
twirix said on July 26, 2011
Okay you are a tjänsteman Anders since you actually have been working. And now Muller has chosen to pay the “workers” in stead of you who actually work. Good job VM.
Doesn’t this say anything to you?
Khrisdk said on July 26, 2011
Please inform us.
I assume you expect jalousy from Anders? Terror, the obvious maltreatment of those that do all the work, while the lazy b*stards sit at home, claiming money for doing nothing.
I would expect that to be your feelings.
GerritN said on July 26, 2011
Twirix: so now you resort to insult the Saab “workers” (note the quotes!) in general. Email sent to the SU crew suggesting your removal.
ayeaye said on July 26, 2011
Truth is, most people that can, have left.
If/When Saab finally gets the money to charge ahead, most of the competence will be gone. Loyalty is admirable, but the ones loyal will not be enough.
I know, because I’m one of the guys that left. Hang in there Anders!
twirix said on July 26, 2011
Do you know Anders personally?
Do you know if he have a family to support?
Do you think this is a good advice if he has that?
If so, why did you leave?
Who is the real friend of Anders here really?
Anders said on July 26, 2011
I know ayeaye well, he used to sit next to me. Believe me when I say we have talked this over countless times.
Khrisdk said on July 26, 2011
Try asking Anders.
You are not a friend.
You are the worst possible thing that could happen to a person:
“Mr. Know-It-All”, the Popes and Ayatollahs of this world, High Priest Of Misery
” I know what is good for you, do as I say or suffer the consequences”
ayeaye said on July 26, 2011
I assumed I knew him, and I just checked and I do, so you can go eat your shorts.
He’s one of the guys that will and can save Saab. If he decides to leave he can find a new gig easily, so it’s not a huge risk to be taking. Sadly not all are like him, which is the main issue IMHO.
I left because I had lost faith, and to be true I never was a hard core Saab fan, but I’m from the area and do care a lot for the brand.
Troels, Denmark said on July 26, 2011
I like to hear that! The true Saab-spirit! Hats off to you!
dave said on July 26, 2011
Now this is passion. Hopefully things will get better soon and you might even be promoted. I hope so
jouni72 said on July 26, 2011
Anders, so nice! Keep up the spirit! We are in Your side!
Troels, Denmark said on July 26, 2011
Yes! I agree!
Anders: Thanks a lot for your comments here – and not at least: Your engagement in a spirited company, which counts for you as a person with integrity and the ability to see rue values.
saabsessing said on July 26, 2011
Anders – you are the heart and soul of Saab, and a big part of what makes Saab worth believing in and fighting for!! Hang in there!!
Nate 9-3 said on July 26, 2011
Anders,
You are a true SAAB hero. You make us proud!
Take care.
SAABNUT said on July 26, 2011
As grave as the situation is – its not surprising – and NB that white collar staff have been working during
these 4 months, since reports state that engineers, management and purchase etc have been atg work trying to sort out the situation.
VM need to make a final push to recapitalize the company.
I hope that the employees of SAAB both get the respect of good and professional information from their employer and that they have the possibility and patience to endure this stress until an amicable solution is reached.
Jeff said on July 26, 2011
Couldn’t agree more. That’s the tone that we should be advocating here, folks. Thanks Saabnut.
zippy said on July 26, 2011
Saab is now the proverbial hunted moose full of so many bullet holes it won’t survive another bullet. Watching this all play out has been sad sad experience and the people of Trollhattan are the ones who will suffer as money is sucked out of the ruins and finds its way into someone’s bank account.
Alex L said on July 26, 2011
What strikes me is that when we hear bad news for the 50th time, we don’t really care about the other 49 times. Sure, it was big and bad news when the Hawtai deal failed, or when VM was left alone on the board, or when there was a supposed delay of the tax payments, but most people forget that in a few days and no one really cares about bad news that happened a few weeks ago.
IMHO this isn’t a huge deal. It’s vacation time in Sweden, some money got delayed, it will probably be fixed in a day or two. Even though Saab hasn’t exactly kept all of its promises, it would be odd if any of the new investors/lenders would bail out now.
No 9 said on July 26, 2011
Keeping such a large payroll without revenue is quite admirable, but frankly makes no business sense .
jond said on July 26, 2011
I agree, and am also confused by this. The present management’s only defence is to show that it has a recovery solution in place. Otherwise, if the only hope is the Chinese, then the longer the delay on their part the stronger position they will be in, and eventually they should be able to acquire a clean brand, unencumbered by debts and irrelevant minority interests following the inevitable bankruptcy.
Saab should already have put in place a ‘restructuring’ that would involve bringing down the breakeven level of production to about 30,000 units p.a. Showing strong, active management would also improve the confidence of the suppliers.
Khrisdk said on July 26, 2011
Do you expect the other Saab to let the Brand live after a bankruptcy?
I don’t.
Which is one very good reason to keep Saab alive as is
jond said on July 26, 2011
Saab cannot be kept alive as is. It lost EURO300m last year and is on course for perhaps a loss of a similar order this year. That has only been sustainable by the goodwill of suppliers, now exhausted. Also, names change; e.g. Spyker to SWAN and customers get used to that, knowing the pedigree and the circumstances that led to the change. Were it to involve the elimination of half-a-billion Euro of debt I would be pleased to let you change my name.
Khrisdk said on July 26, 2011
Try renaming AUDI to Zchopenhauer Automobile and let’s see how that works out
Khrisdk said on July 26, 2011
oops..Zschopau Automobile..
twirix said on July 26, 2011
Are you kidding? Saab explained that big loss with the 7 week stop of the factory last year. Now we will have a stop of at least 5 months if a bankruptcy won’t be declared before that.
The loss will be much much higher.
Khrisdk said on July 26, 2011
Yup
SpinM said on July 27, 2011
In this case I partly agree with you twirix. The loss this year is likely to be higher than the year before. Nevertheless, you need to take into account that the order book of Saab is quite full. So when production starts again, the output of factory in terms of cars produced per day is likely to exceed last years levels (after the start-up period that is likely to bring some hickups). This gives hope that the loss cannot be simply calculated by extrapolating the time of no production.
meccano said on July 27, 2011
It makes business sense to have such a payroll if you want to claim to still be in business. You can’t let your staff go and then expect to start up your factory as soon as the other pieces fit together just as you also can’t be planning your next product releases. It was a big story when they didn’t have the money to pay blue collar workers and it is now big story when they don’t have money to pay white collar workers. There are many reasons you can claim that the production line has temporarily stopped, but without your employees you don’t have a company at all.
scand said on July 26, 2011
Death by 1000 cuts. its excruciatingly painful to watch – but I believe the tipping point is about here. Note how quiet VM has been lately ? There are probably no more rabbits to pull out of the hat. The company is bleeding millions daily either operating, or even more in idle mode. The Chinese are playing cat and mouse. The want the machinery and the brand, they have no interest in building loss making cars in a high labor cost market. Hemfosa will have inked a clause in it that they get to scoop the shares of the other partner in the event of a bankruptcy of the other partner (ie saab) . Therefore , they will have 100% of the property for 50 percent. (At least the property will remain swedish owned).
Unfortunately the authorities are just running out the clock, saving it is too expensive, and not economically feasible.
twirix said on July 26, 2011
Can’t they just offer to pay 10% now and the rest in the end of the year?
If it’s good enough for the supplier it should be good enough for the employees.
Grumpy said on July 26, 2011
Give it a rest Twirix. Your silly attempts at irony is just sad. Go back to DI’s Forum, there you have some people that may want to hear/read what you say.
Just…can’t…stand the Saabhaters anymore…Sigh
Jeff, please feel free to delete my comment if you like.
twirix said on July 26, 2011
Actually I think it’s good that the employees finally understands the suppliers situation. They have far to long made requests that everybody else than them self should finance this project, it’s time now that they learn what they are requesting.
It’s of course totally unrealistic to keep going like this. If Saab cannot start the factory at once there is only one alternative and that is to declare bankruptcy. No money, lots of debts and a closed factory for soon half a year. This has gone far to long already, and it has caused a lot of unnecessary damages.
Grumpy said on July 26, 2011
The Fact that Saab managed to survive getting dumped byGM must have really hurt.
Yes it does not look good right now and it hasn’t for a few months. But I don’t get why you or others take this so personally. If it was your money, your livelyhood at stake. Would you appreciate a band of wolfs with absolutely no stake to stand and call for your employer to give up.
VM may not be god’s gift to Business but he certainly gave a lot of people hope and a real chance. How did he manage to hurt you so much in that process Twirix?
twirix said on July 26, 2011
I have said it before and I can say it again, I have been in the same situation as the Saab employes my self and even if it hurt I totally supported shutting down my ex company.
This has been kept going for emotional feelings to long, and it’s no good for nobody.
Cry out a few days but then grab your self together and create a better future. I think the attempts of trying to get financed by the tax payer and even to get bought out by the government are pathetic.
Khrisdk said on July 26, 2011
Oh that same old sob story again.
Good for you.
And please quit the other story that you keep repeating:
Saab has never asked to be financed by the Tax Payer or bought out by the Government.
That is something you misunderstood a long time ago, and you are not making it true by repeating it.
twirix said on July 26, 2011
Read again and read correctly.
I have said that there has been an ongoing requests that Saab should get different kind of financial support from the tax payers, even to be bought out totally. And that support earlier caused Mona Sahlin to request that the government had to help Saab.
Fortunately we have a government who does not favor particular companies over others. Fortunately the opinion also support the government on this. But if people didn’t speak out the government could very well have been forced to finance Saab due to heavy pressure from the opinion.
Khrisdk said on July 26, 2011
Whatever.
You’re still not right,
Even though you repeat it
Michael said on July 26, 2011
Also twiri
Michael said on July 26, 2011
Sorry for that^^
“Our life is too good, we should destroy everything we have and service others. What can we do if all other auto-making countries’ goverments inject such amounts of money in their industry, sigh. We cannot do this, we have our principles! That’s what will always remain even we won’t make anything else.”
So, twirix, whad do you mean by “a better future”? Uneployment and loss of technical expertise? Wow! I think you swedes really dream about it
Great future, really. I think there’s something personal for you in this case. Is it your former company succeeded after you quit?
twirix said on July 26, 2011
Michael: I think you need to read up about the shipbuilding industry in Sweden for example. Then tell me if you also support the support of that in the 70′s also. It was a disaster, the sooner it stopped the better for everybody.
Khrisdk said on July 26, 2011
Again just for showing reiteration talent:
You’re still not right about Saab asking for support
ryanonsrc said on July 26, 2011
twirix: I too have in the difficult situation where a company has folded. So I have experienced delayed paychecks, broken promises, and experienced a massive layoff from which very few people “survived” (those of which have later left the company as well). I live and work in the Silicon Valley / San Francisco Bay Area Technology sector … so I know all about failing businesses.
So let me tell you: SAAB is black SWAN, one of the biggest anomalies I’ve ever seen. As I have mentioned in numerous other threads, they have shown a level of resilience that I have not seen anywhere else. They have suffered numerous blows, anyone of which would have completely destroyed a lesser company in a matter of days. As I have said, I have seen before what happens when investors make all kinds of “promises” and never actually deliver. That is not the case here. If it weren’t for the tyrannical government that SAAB were dealing with, most, if not all of these problems would have been solved a long time ago.
Khrisdk said on July 26, 2011
Having as good time?
I think you should go to Trolhättan and post your views.
You have just hit an all time low.
twirix said on July 26, 2011
If you look at comments on ttela.se you’ll see that they realize this since some time by now. It’s only some of you here who doesn’t realize it yet.
Khrisdk said on July 26, 2011
I actually read Ttela and Di.se every day..
I have noticed something else.
The fact that it is the same people that reiterate their POV endlessly.
You wouldn’t be one of them?
Go feed you wolves. But please remember than when they are set free they attack everybody
Khrisdk said on July 26, 2011
By the way:
Have you noticed how many people are still at Saab, and how few of the suppliers from the Kronofogden cases that have actually asked to have the money claimed?
By the other way:
Do you come back to applaud the doings of Saab when they pay in 2-3 days?
twirix said on July 26, 2011
New quick fixes are no success in my eyes. The only success is if Saab managed to actually earn some money. I.e. money in is greater then money out
twirix said on July 26, 2011
and by money in I mean money that Saab earns by it self
Khrisdk said on July 26, 2011
I thought you were an advocart of the free market and the right of the manufacturers to do as they pleased?
Including making money in all ways possble without questions asked.
But I could have misheard.
twirix said on July 26, 2011
I am for a market economy yes, but a perfect market needs rules, both to work at the best, i.e. to produce what the customer wants at lowest costs but that’s not all.
Now we see that Saab pays some suppliers and not other, some employees and not others etc. They make purchases that they know they can’t pay is this causes a lot of damage. I am quite convinced that several laws has been broken already, this mess should have been stopped a long time ago.
Khrisdk said on July 26, 2011
That’s exactly where we basically disagree:
I still think we should have that discussion about Neo-liberalism in the Forum
twirix said on July 26, 2011
I’ll give you an advise, do not ask a question you don’t want me to answer.
Khrisdk said on July 26, 2011
Well.. I don’t really ask you.
You normally just come by giving a lot of answers to questions never asked
Michael said on July 26, 2011
Oh, same old boring twirix!
You really must be driving a Toyota Camry! I guess you do, but if not you should consider one!
And shouldn’t we also place a banner with your photo and your reiterated opinion on the top of this site for your ego to be finally satisfied? I already have learnt your opinon by heart, but I think there are those who haven’t, that’s why you keep repeating yourself for months.
BTW, no, free market never worked and never actually existed anywhere. And if you think your government acts within the free market rules, you are just a joke for me.
Troels, Denmark said on July 26, 2011
What a sad(istic) comment!
Sadim said on July 26, 2011
This is very sad news. But it seems to be a significant marker of the management philosophy. Last week a number of people will have known that there was not enough cash to pay for employees. But instead of being honest towards the employess the CEO decided: we will pay the fisrt lot and hope for the best concerning the second lot.
Instead he could have said – we are waiting for a payment, can you make do with 50% and then given everybody half of what was owed to them.
I think this was done so as to make Swepart withdraw their bankruptcy filing. I wonder if Swepart would have accepted the offer if the knew SWAN could not pay the salaries. I know I am talking about 2 separate companies, but it seems VM uses the cash as if they were one and the same.
Disgraceful, I think.
Khrisdk said on July 26, 2011
I don’t really think that Swepart cares if Saab can pay wages.
They would probably rather see those money on their account.
And since we don’t know th ewhole story, we do not know if anybody at Saab could have anticipated not to be able to pay wages
Sadim said on July 26, 2011
“..we do not know if anybody at Saab could have anticipated not to be able to pay wages,”
You MUST be joking. Of course they knew. VM knew. Eric Geers knew. And the CFO knew. and one or two more knew. It must have been obvious and a matter for quite some discussion.
Khrisdk said on July 26, 2011
No. I’m not
ANA said on July 26, 2011
Of course they knew……
aki said on July 26, 2011
Let´s put it this way. If Saab was to die it would have happend by now. It´s so obvious that the momentum it lost after the production stoppage has put it in a different ballgame. It´s also obvious that tons of things are happening that we don´t know about. Saab cannot die a whole year and I am positive that it will work out and I can order my 9-5SC by next spring.
We Saabisties love our cars and I can understand all the desperate comments and exasperations on the comments, but don`t forget there are people in Trollhätten who are working their a…. out for the company and employees. So heads up everybody and keep calm
Cheers
dave said on July 26, 2011
Now I understand why SAAB has been under so much stress by the press. It obviously helps selling newspapers.
Has anyone ever counted how fast comments grow on posts like these ? man…it makes me sad
Khrisdk said on July 26, 2011
Yup..
saabdog said on July 26, 2011
I can’t help but think that the vacations in Sweden have something to do with much of the angst going on with Saab right now. Things are dragging along with no direction or resolution. My guess is that when everyone is back from their vacations and concentrating on work, we will all know more about what is happening. Until then, we’re pretty much in limbo and only guessing. I just hate to see the SU community starting to eat its own.
No 9 said on July 26, 2011
So many back seat drivers, back benchers, nay sayers, mother-in-laws (no offence), sooooooooo much BS!
GerritN said on July 26, 2011
+1
ryanonsrc said on July 26, 2011
+ 1
Leeloo said on July 26, 2011
See, this is what i said in the last comment.. Where’s the money from the realestate deal, the China money, the GEM money..?? No suppliers have been paid… where’s the money? It’s in VMs pocket, i.e Spyker..
Nobody wondered about the silence from VM the last months? Open up your eyes guys, see what’s happening.. he is using you all.
Khrisdk said on July 26, 2011
Question:
Can you afford a lawsuit from VM?
Leeloo said on July 26, 2011
Haha, no probably not, can you? Never heard of such an irrelevant question.
Don’t you have any constructive critisism for me instead? Explanation or answer to my questions maybe?
twirix said on July 26, 2011
He tried that with me to
In case of lack of argument, try to scare the opponent…
Khrisdk said on July 26, 2011
Not scare..Just stating the fact that you are on the edge of libel.
Not that I think that would scare you.
I have no critisism on your standpoint.
It is all yours
Alex L said on July 26, 2011
I don’t know how many suppliers that have been paid, but I guess that Saab has to secure payment plans and deals with all of them before really paying anyone. It’s against Swedish law to pay one debt-holder without paying the other. We have to wait a bit longer for that to happen.
And is has been said before, but Saab is probably the worst company in the world to scam in the way that you propose. EIB, accountans and the Swedish govt. control everything. Sure, VM or VA have probably made a few kronor from the interest rates towards Saab, but there’s really no option there because lending too much money for too little interest is illegal in most countries. Saab isn’t in good shape, and even EIB charge 10% interest.
Leeloo said on July 26, 2011
Well, i know what you are saying but EIB, Swedish government etc only care about what is in their own interests, ie the securities for the so far paid EIB loan. The day to day business like invoices from Spyker (management fees) are out of their hands. These kind of transactions is simple and easy to do on a day to day basis and could and will not be controlled by EIB / Swedish government.
So, what VM probably have done is to “drain” the cash liquidity from Saabs accounts as soon as the new money was coming in from the realestatedeal, GEM fund, China etc..
I promise you, you will see now when the swedish enforcement agency start to dig in the accounts they will just find some pocket money here and there. I welcome ANY other explanation to why there is no money left to pay salaries!
Khrisdk said on July 26, 2011
Shall we wait and see?
Leeloo said on July 26, 2011
Definitely. In the mean time lets keep the discussion open:)
Khrisdk said on July 26, 2011
Why?
twirix said on July 26, 2011
Salaries and taxes are the last thing a company stops paying and the reason is simply that the board members may be personally responsible for this. If they don’t pay salaries there are no money at all.
Khrisdk said on July 26, 2011
Again, just for the purpose of showing reiteration skills
Shall we wait and see?
Carl-Henrik said on July 26, 2011
You are speculating. Stick to the topic of the post. You’re not!
Leeloo said on July 27, 2011
But please… which user around here is NOT speculating?? Who is sitting on facts and how are the rest of us going to confirm if it is facts or not?? Does it mean information are facts when it comes from a SU-crew member or can the rest of us as well supply facts? Just a friendly question.
Bengt in Scania said on July 26, 2011
I think this blog is more and more like the Dagens Industri. It is a shame.
Off topic:
Took a tour with the 9-4X last afternoon. Nice car! Some pictures.
Khrisdk said on July 26, 2011
Very nice
Though I think I would be more inclined to make a downpayment on the 96 TT and the Saabo.
On the other hand a 9-4x could probably tow a nice big Solifer
RS said on July 26, 2011
Yes. SU is becoming some kind therapy forum for some people. I say remove ‘em. We don’t need this shite on a site that supports Saab. Like Swade ones said about guests crapping on your carpet…
IMO twirix had his say and more enough already.
Grumpy said on July 26, 2011
Totally agree Bengt.
Unfortunately some of the DI Forum trolls have found their way to SaabsUnited.
Some people just get off on bad mouthing Saab, the employees, the products and us the fans of the brand.
Twirix, Leeloo, Sadim and others let’s assume you can’t change our minds and we can’t change yours, why don’t you just leave us ‘Saabhuggers’ alone, you just despise us and Saab and everything that it stands for anyway.
Start a blog of your own perhaps, that would at least be creative.
obelix said on July 26, 2011
LOL +1
Ronnie_Rad said on July 26, 2011
C’mon guys pick up the mood
!
Of course this is a bad situation, and to say otherwise would be misleading, but with great comrades such as Youngman and Pang Da, we should make it out of this mess soon.
I just wish that Youngman or Pang Da would act as a financier and offer us a proper loan proposition in the amount of the EIB loan so we could pay them back, get VA on board to take care of the suppliers, and finally be back on track to success.
jouni72 said on July 26, 2011
Ronnie_Rad, I just wrote the same thoughts as You at the same time… : )
Ronnie_Rad said on July 26, 2011
Great minds think alike !
jouni72 said on July 26, 2011
So that was the reason!
jouni72 said on July 26, 2011
Again look forward, this will be solved. Look good things, like Chinese willing to sort this out (last post) , possible EIB-loan change to normal loan and then Antonov in. There is way many good signs out there. I know of course it is not good for the people in Saab not getting their salary, but this will be solved for sure! Keep the positive spirit up, SAAB UP!
rallyho said on July 26, 2011
I must have asked this 10 times and never get an answer.
Who is holding the “paper” or title on the 9-4X that are being produced? Is it GM?
You know we little guys who just own cars suffer a loss. I have two 9-3′s and if the price on them drops we suffer. It is not just a matter of investing in stocks like the wealthy.
But who holds title to the 9-4X that are being made?
jet black said on July 26, 2011
Yes this is bad news.
Yes I’m disappointed.
But seriously: what else can you expect from a car company where production has stood still for 4 months? This is no surprise really. So please stop moaning, I’m sure VM is working his … off to find a solution. The only ones who have a reason to moan are the Saab employees.
And one more thing: Some people on this comment section behave like spoilt children. Please stop blaming and attacking the messengers of bad news. It’s not their fault. I’m sure Jeff, Tim and the rest of the SU crew would prefer to bring us positive news. They are doing the best they can. They have their day jobs and families, and they spend their spare time writing on this blog to keep us updated, so please show some respect and gratitude!
Thanks, jb. We’ll have good news I’m a few hours (or whenever I get to writing the post
. As you say, we’re busy guys- I’m running errands in SoHo at the moment.
hilmar said on July 26, 2011
There will be many difficulties until this deal is done, positive and negative events, so why should we again and again get angry hearing the bad things ? No one of us is able to stabilize this situation. So the only hope lies on the people working behind the scene. Until now I think they did a great job fighting for their ideals and if there isn´t a chance anymore we can complain. But they didn´t reach this point yet and Saab fans should be Saab fans and stay ! The other people, especially Dr. Know-All, should leave this blog and be happy changing cars.
So – I have finished.
Tobbe said on July 26, 2011
The money will sone come!
The solution is named: VLADIMIR ANTONOV
ryanonsrc said on July 26, 2011
You are correct:
Check out this news article that came out yesterday:
http://www.thelocal.se/35150/20110725/
ANA said on July 26, 2011
I dont want to be a pessimist but The Local really is not a great source of news.
Khrisdk said on July 26, 2011
The article was lifted from another news site.
It is based on a statement by Lars Carlström, the Antonov spokesman.
How must trust you put in him I will leave up to your personal assesment
ryanonsrc said on July 26, 2011
It’s not? I actually didn’t know that … I read it because it’s in English, but if it’s a poor news source then that’s unfortunate
ANA said on July 26, 2011
The Local is often a few days behind many of the leading media as it just rehashes other reports (notably Bloomberg).
guy55 said on July 26, 2011
hallo saabbisten,
i have a question? i by a saab griffin convertible in avril,what must i doing for my saab,waiting of starting production of finish my contract in belgium and serchin another car volvo of audi?? BUT I LOVE VERY MUTCH SAAB!!!!
GREATS OFF ALL FROM BELGIUM?ANTWERP.
obelix said on July 26, 2011
Hang in there and wait ! You’ll get your car sooner than now switching to audi or some other brand, and the smile on your face will be much bigger !
slant4 said on July 26, 2011
This is looking very Rover like!
Kikaluka said on July 26, 2011
Buy a Saab, it will make you feel better. I can’t help getting into a very very good mood whenever I drive my 2011 9-5…
ryanonsrc said on July 26, 2011
Oh man … I envy you
I think that is my favorite car that SAAB currently has, with the latest 9-4x being a close contender. I am eager to see what they do with the new 9-3 ….
Which, despite all the naysayers, WILL happen.
belgian_roadster from Eupen, DG said on July 26, 2011
Hi Guy,
I bought 2 Saab in April.
and probably we will meet next year at the 24hours of Spa-Francorchamps, because as you know Saab Belgium is always doing the driver presentation with 9-3 Cabrio.
9-4X and also a 9-3 Cabrio.
The Cabrio was a special edition called Blue with 1.8T engine, lot of extras but with the old style front bumper.
I have been told now by my local dealer, that the specifications have been modified, it will be with the new 2.0t twin scroll engine and Griffin body style. Regarding the 9-4X, I was told, that the price of the car has been modified and that I have to pay 5000.-€ less.
So with all these good news I will wait as long as it takes.
Just do the same as me
Regards from Eupen
Quixcube said on July 26, 2011
I support Saab very much. I am less attached to SWAN. I am not sure why SWAN doesn’t sell control of Saab to another partner if they are unable to maintain the company in a respectful and responsible fashion.
If Saab were sold now, things could start to get back to “normal” (whatever that might be) for Saab sooner. A new company can be formed (again) and then design and production could restart as new money flows in. It seems like the biggest problem is that SWAN doesn’t want to admit that they are in too deep. Why drag it out like this?
And I am curious, why do people seem to prefer VA over the Chinese so much? Neither is Swedish, nor are the current owners, and the Swedish folks don’t seem to care much about Saab either. I say go with the owners who have the deepest pockets and then hope that the desire to turn a profit means they form a desire to please the customers.
My biggest concern is that the next owner will cease research and development and just use the IP towards some other venture before giving us customers another chance to actually buy some cars. Not many people (here, or elsewhere) bought a Saab lately because the current Saabs are either stale or too expensive/too GM.
It seems like some of us just want things to be the way we want in case we ever get around to buying a Saab, but that doesn’t work well for a manufacturer with shallow pockets.
Troels, Denmark said on July 26, 2011
Off course the situation and the (necessary??) silence around Saab is not very calming.
BUT:
1. The news here is about a delay caused by a delay of money from one off the funding´s that came to Saab recently. So in fact nothing has really changed since yesterday. The total calculation forward to production-start is exactly the same.
2. If the rumours – spread by some here – about VM wanting to make Saab bankrupt, why would he wait so long? Why didn´t he do it last month, when there were difficulties to pay the blue-collar-salaries ??
Khrisdk said on July 26, 2011
+1
Jeff said on July 26, 2011
If that was VM’s intent all along, he wouldn’t have wanted to devalue the company the way that this supplier debaucle has unfolded. For anyone to suggest his goal is to bankrupt Saab is beyond me, these commenters have strange thought processes. It doesn’t add up. I would have closed comments were it not for the level headed commenters coming in here and refuting heretics with fact.
We must report news reports, press releases, and the daily operations at Saab, that’s one of the roles SU plays. It’s my least favorite, but if we don’t do it, someone else will. I’d much rather run design competitions, analyze performance modifications, and talk about road trips than this, but the fact is without this liquidity/supplier mess being solved, those subjects are far off. The best thing we can all do is calmly and rationally keep tabs on the situation, trying to debunk negative thought that isn’t based in reason.
The fact that we have to do it among our own commenters though is beyond even my comprehension. I mean really? Why are you here if your next car isn’t a Saab? Why are you posting at SU if you’re just here to float conspiracy theories based in flawed logic? So long as VM is out there fighting to save the company, I will gladly stand behind him and have his back. If you don’t like that, feel free to start posting at other Saab sites, please.
Troels, Denmark said on July 26, 2011
Jeff! I do hope that you did not understand my comment as a critique of You – the SU-crew – bringing this news. I was just trying to sum up the situation – and our knowledge about it at this stage.
I think you are doing a great job here, which I appreciate very much!
No not at all! I was trying to back you up. You’re fine, sorry if I didn’t clarify who I was directing my comment at (there’s only a few of them up there, but I’m polite enough not to call them out until they do it again). You’re always welcome and reasonable, and I can’t wait until we can get back to talking about Scandinavian design values at SU with you taking the lead! -Jeff
ryanonsrc said on July 26, 2011
+1 …. I agree 100%
twirix said on July 26, 2011
I find it rather silly when people complain about hearing negative opinions about Saab from people who complains about the lack of support from the government. These complains or even far worse accusations is repeated over and over again and then it’s perfectly in order.
I am sure most here doesn’t agree but I am equally sure most of the people in Sweden would agree that my posts are far better grounded than those from a handful users here. Especially from one user who repeatedly spam with totally nonsense or +1 statements.
Whatever you think I have tried just to ignore these nonsense replies in order not to spam the forum.
Btw, I am a computer scientist and an IP ban wouldn’t stop if I didn’t willingly let it stop me.
Khrisdk said on July 26, 2011
I’m so sorry.
It will happen again, I’m afraid
Nice to meet a fellow Computer specialist.
Do claim your superiority
Carl-Henrik said on July 26, 2011
This is a site and forum for people who are fond of Saab in some way. I’ve read all your comments, the first one being here on June 25th. I can’t find one single post where you express any positive thing regarding Saab at all – so I have the impression you are here to make comments just to stir up emotions with comments. Some comments are just and fair, no doubt about that, but most of them – well they’re not.
So I just wonder – why are you here at this site at all? Spending all your time here writing comments?
twirix said on July 26, 2011
I have seen a lot of groundless complains about all other than Saab here, and as I said even severe accusations without ground. This is not good for any of us, including Saab enthusiasts.
If you let Muller keep going as he does, you may soon be in a situation without parts for your cars for example, for ever. A little bit more objectivity would do you all good even if it hurts in the short term.
And I have several time ignored replies to my posts when I found that they were just rubbish and not worth commenting. Just did again….
Leeloo said on July 27, 2011
Well, since I and twirix are more or less on the same path i would like to explain my presence around here. I’m not more of a Saab fan than any body else around, i don’t care really what is happening. What i do care about is the completely nonsens accusations against the highly succesfull and popular Swedish Government, EIB, Maud Olofsson, you name it…
What also kind of “pisses me off” (if you excuse me my language) is that all of the above parties are being accused of trying to put Saab down the drain. Why complain about EIB when it was Saab them selves that in contracts engage EIB to borrow money. The conditions of the loan was known from the beginning. EIB didnt ask Saab to borrow money from them, Saab asked EIB… this is just ONE example of what i believe the stongest is wrong to do from your side.
So please understand why people (like me for example) react and joins forums like this to make our voices heard and to defend what the community here completely wrong accuses what is in my interest. This is something you have to live with, if you critizes people, organisations, companies etc… you have to let them make their voices heard, if not this site will turn into pathetic closed sekt.
Keep the forum / comments open for everybody! This is the very soul idea of internet and its users. An open society and free speech is what i live for and therefore i expect to be able to comment here in the future as well. Thank you!
Tripod said on July 27, 2011
Leeloo,
“Well, since I and twirix are more or less on the same path i would like to explain my presence around here.”
Then some of you clearly have come here with a prejudice that all Saab enthusiasts blame the Swedish government and its representatives; I don’t think that’s the case. Just because you see some comments to articles in the Swedish media blaming the aforementioned you can’t assume that everyone does. That said, the government could at least have been a bit more careful about what it said; if you want someone to succeed, you don’t badmouth them. If you can’t say anything good, it’s better to be quiet. There were some comments that indeed did irritate several people; on the other hand, it’s quite easy to dismiss them, coming from politicians. But one thing is very clear: you would never see that, such comments, in another country.
And btw, you are close to libels, as mentioned by Khrisdk, when saying things like: “The longer he can keep Saab alive the more he can drain to Spyker. If he would have done it last month there would not the money from the realestate deal, for example..”; below in comment #165, or in #112 etc. But you dismissed it with: “Never heard of such an irrelevant question.”; that, Leeloo, tells us a thing or two about you.
You think you have all the facts, a balanced view? No one here, as far as I have seen, has blamed the EIB, the government etc. (and whatever you feel people blame) for being criminal; and that is what you have been saying or alluding, so don’t come here and do some grandstanding, that you bring along a balanced view. Repeat that and you can sod off as well, as far as I’m concerned.
Carl-Henrik said on July 26, 2011
You managed not to answer my questions. So please do that.
twirix said on July 26, 2011
I thought I did.
I think it’s better for everybody except Muller if we get a little bit more objectivity in here.
Khrisdk said on July 26, 2011
Then please let us know the precise and objective facts on which you place your evaluations.
Then you may get answers that you can use.
But in here, if you want to be the spokesman of the realities and objectivity, you have not been very good at it so far.
Please state your case in a neutral way without resorting to the usual tax payer money argument etc.
Leeloo said on July 26, 2011
The longer he can keep Saab alive the more he can drain to Spyker. If he would have done it last month there would not the money from the realestate deal, for example..
SteveW said on July 26, 2011
SU crew – please do us all two favours
1. Close comments on this post.
2. Block twirix from the site. I can’t stand the thought of reading another word from this (censored).
This site benefits from both sides of any story being discussed but when someone writes about tthe company, management and workers like this you have to question why they are here. Enough is enough.
Jeff said on July 26, 2011
Thanks Steve, I’m keeping tabs on comments now, it seems that most of the new comments are all debunking the idiocy we saw earlier today. So long as discussion remains positive, I’m keeping it open. If it gets out of hand, I’ll have to close them until those few crazies can calm down. In the meantime, they know they’re on a short leash. If anyone should get too petty or plain mean, they’re going to at least be temporarily banned (and that means their IP, not just their username).
FB said on July 26, 2011
No no….nobody should be blocked. Just calm down and concentrate. The most important thing now is to get the company on its feet again, with some help from the chinese – and – possibly – from Antonov. Wait and see how the meeting later this week turns out. There is a future, and it is still possible to reach 40-45000 sold cars this year IF porduction starts in august.
guy55 said on July 26, 2011
hallo begian roadster,ik kocht mijn saab griffin cabrio 20i in een oak kleur bij saab lievens in geel en dit in april ,ik heb een goede deal gemaakt en betaalde 33000euro all in dus een griffin plus met leder beige en pioneer navigatie,
nu bezit ik een 9.3 ,ik heb ook uw aanbieding gekregen en vond dat een mooi voorstel maar de blauwe kleur schikte mij zo niet en de oak kleur heb ik gezien in de saabgarage deboo in brugge en dit op het model 9.5
mijn dealer houd mij dagelijks op de hoogte,hijzelf heeft twee weken geleden een hartoverbrugging gehad,kwestie van de onregelmatigheden binnen saab. ook krijg ik regelmatig een mailtje vanuit zweden van een bediende katherina,echt tof hoe die menseb ginder zwoegen!!! wat hier in belgie betreft bij bornnem is men vrij onsepatiek met uitleg;;;;;;;;;
ik hoop voor ons beiden op goed niews in de toekomst,u kan mij steeds mailen op http://www.guy.scheepers@telenet.be
ps/normaal was mijn levering morgen 27juli?????
SteveW said on July 26, 2011
Jeff – I trust your judgement and am in awe of your patience.
Anders – keep up the good work I can’t wait to drive the new 9-3 I’m sure it will be amazing.
Carl-Henrik said on July 26, 2011
Many of the comments here are way of topic because you don’t discuss the topic but instead write about totally different things. So I just wonder 1) Do you want to stick to the topic? 2) Do you want us to close down the possibility to comment? or 3) Do you want us to delete all comments that are way of topic?
Khrisdk said on July 26, 2011
This IS going to be off topic:
That’s up to you
If you want a discussion in public of how to act on the Comment rules I would recommend using the Forum
I have no special preference for keeping my comments online.
But I will, just like most others, react if provoked. In this case it has probably brought me a little off-topic.
Carl-Henrik said on July 26, 2011
So please take a breath and count to 10 before you decide if you want to make a reply to another post. The best thing to get rid of people who write things you don’t like – that is to stop replying to them.
Khrisdk said on July 26, 2011
Can’t help it
I like Trolls
FB said on July 26, 2011
You are so right Carl-Henrik. But I think I know why people are so awful in their comments. That´s because they are scared to death that SAAB will have to close down. I mean – think of it – what will move you and your family if SAAB is not around anymore…..? Volvo….? Audi….? Alfa Romeo…..? No no no…….NOT gonna happen…..
Carl-Henrik said on July 26, 2011
Yes, I understand, but we are not there yet. What we can do is to be aware of the present situation and then do just that – be proud of our Saabs. What we don’t have to do is to jump to conclusions about things that are not decided.
Henrik B. said on July 26, 2011
Well,please do delete all comments that are not topic-related.
Cheers!
DUTCH900C said on July 26, 2011
The thing that makes my most sad is indeed the comment of the press, but also some people here on SAABsunited and i don’t write the name or names, but i know that a lot of people here know who i mean.
terry9000k said on July 26, 2011
I have just read all 171 comments on here & currently only have one thing to say, to the commentator or the forum author.
If you are adding a response/comment to someone else’s comment PLEASE use a different colour font. As just righting it in BOLD can mislead other readers, as to who wrote what…..
terry9000k said on July 26, 2011
Of course I mean’t writing, not righting
Red J said on July 26, 2011
terry,
I hope this pleases you!!
terry9000k said on July 26, 2011
Nice & clear, although the writer’s name should be added..http://www.saabsunited.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_razz.gif
Red J said on July 26, 2011
Sorry, but in my signature is already red, so no need to put it in red
terry9000k said on July 27, 2011
Purple would be good…Ha!
2T said on July 26, 2011
How comes nobody (maybe i missed it) wonders about why the promised funds didn’t arrive. I think we’ll find the answer to that specific questions raises the same issue SAAB has been struggling with for months now : VA. Unfortunately, he seems to have been the source of more issues for SAAB than solutions. Maybe too much betting on the same (or only ?) horse is what’s been going on….Or maybe – hopefully – i’m wrong.
twirix said on July 26, 2011
That is an interesting question but I don’t think the problem is that Muller has been betting on to few horses, rather the opposite and only short term solutions. He is extremely good at come up with quick fixes but that’s all.
He must have seen the crisis since at least beginning of the year but he relied on his skills to come up with quick fixes instead of dealing with the problem properly.
terry9000k said on July 26, 2011
twirix,
I’ve refained from commenting on your posts because most of your comments have little relevance …..
However for all of VM’s ‘short term solutions’, one thing is clear, there would be NO Saab now, & but for him…..and oh, you comments would be even more irrelevant if that were the case.
Red J said on July 26, 2011
How comes that YOU (maybe I missed it) know exactly which funds didn’t arrive and why?
2T said on July 26, 2011
I don’t, but there were four (I think) sources of short term funding announced over the last few weeks, adding up to roughly €100MM, play the elimination game on what’s been communicated so far, add that to the known issues so far and i have a pretty good guess at which funds are missing.
But that wasn’t my point. My point is that this small piece of info is a very important part of Saab’s press statement and i feel it’s been completely overlooked by all the pickering that’s been going on in this thread.
Just trying to get back to the topic, really. lol
Jeff said on July 26, 2011
Bye bye, twirix
(he probably can’t see this message btw, I think he sees something like “You Are Banned”). For all those reading this: please don’t cross the line and insult anyone personally, especially not Saab workers. That’s just low. In the case of such action, bans will be temporary so that users can cool off for a bit, but if it keeps happening, we have tools to ensure the crazy stays off SU.
Now could everyone focus on the positive part of this press release and try to discuss ways that Saab could possibly get out of this mess? Thanks.
ryanonsrc said on July 26, 2011
woohoo! … thanks Jeff
At any rate, yes, I do my best to keep things positive. Partially, because that is just my nature, but also because I genuinely believe that things are going to turn around in a big way. It’s going to take some time for sure, but It will happen.
No 9 said on July 26, 2011
Tack, merci, thank you, gracias. danke, aitäh, спасибо, dank u, takk, grazie, σας ευχαριστώ, 谢谢
terry9000k said on July 26, 2011
What’s happening to the SU staff fund…….?
katar1na said on July 26, 2011
“ANDERS” – you represent and personlize the spirit of SAAB. This is what it´s about and I so do hope that the (stupid) government in Sweden will have their eyes opend before it´s to late.
You will sleep better when you´re looking back at these days in the future than all the other ones that only follow the main stream – not even trying to do their best!
God bless you and you´re in my prayers! No matter what happens a person like you can´t ever fail! Remember that! And I am sure that it´s what Müller and Antonov is desperately working hard for to maintain, so you´re not alone.
ryanonsrc said on July 26, 2011
+900
katar1na said on July 26, 2011
To you ALL:
Please try to simply ingore “TWIRIX“. This guy´s just not worth your time. It´s waisted.
Who´s reading his comments (seriously) anyway?
Greg Abbott said on July 26, 2011
If there was no realistic prospect of fixing the situation, VM et al. would have given up by now. Whatever else you say about him, he is not an unintelligent person. To what purpose would he continue the charade (if this is a charade) if Saab is truly doomed?
No, the liquidity crisis is a short-term issue – Antonov and the Chinese are still out there, because there is a tremendous amount of value left in Saab. There is value in the Phoenix platform on which future models will be based, there is value in the Saab brand (particularly as a new brand in China, where consumers will have been spared all the drama and hand-wringing of the separation from GM and its aftermath), and there is value in the technical expertise and engineering talent in Trollhattan. There is even value in the factory itself – if you are going to make cars in Europe, there is no more efficient and cost-effective place to do it.
It is entirely possible the short term liquidity crisis will get worse before it gets better. More fuel for the trolls to throw on the bonfire, I’m afraid. But in the meantime I am confident that Saab will continue to exist and make cars, both in Trollhattan and China.
No 9 said on July 26, 2011
Amen.
Henrik B. said on July 26, 2011
The main problem, Greg, as I see it, isn’t the shortterm funding but more the midterm funding. When Saab (hopefully) starts producing cars again, at the end of august, they will very quickly run out of money even producing the cars. This will happen in a pace, where the money customers are paying for their new Saabs won’t reach Saabs account fast enough. Not to mention the almost 2.000 already paid by the Chineese, which won’t bring money but only expences!
And if we were to think that selling Saabs in 2010, was up hill, the future of selling Saabs will be a vertical climb up a mountain!
I’m certainly not a pessimist, but a realist. And I have high hopes – and believes – that Saab will exsist in the future.
Cheers!
terry9000k said on July 27, 2011
I was under the impression the up-front payments from the chinese were ring fenced for when they made the cars, but you are saying (I think) this money has already gone too……??
Greg Abbott said on July 27, 2011
All of what you say is true. I would add only that these factors have to be included in whatever deal VM cuts with Antonov, Pangda, and Youngman. If the liquidity issues were fatal, they would not be pursuing a deal or talking about new models for the Chinese market. The current situation is factored in, it has to be.
Toby K said on July 26, 2011
OFF TOPIC:
May I state that the thing I love about this site is that so many intelligent and thougtful people commune here, and that means those that aren’t stand out like a dog’s nob..I like that…its old school, its like being back in the 1950′s and seeing a kid steal an apple of the Parson’s tree and get a cuff round the ear from PC plod.
There are many times I have wished to counter ill sentiment and found myself angry but it is a joy to see so many who feel exactly as I do when some saab owner’s express “ungentlemanly” views.
The IQ of the Saab owner is dropping for sure, and that is a shame but the price of the rarer older Saab is on the increase which is good for some of us here.
But can I ask (thread worthy and probably for the forum) if this really was the end would you still buy the remaining stock? would you immediately go to another brand? would you stick with your old 9-3 and just get her overhauled and maxxed out like a Viggen-just becasue you can and waiting for the next Saab is no longer an option. How many of us here would accept a 100% Chinese owned Saab as their next ride?
Seriously people-whats your PLAN B should this be a prelude to darker days ahead?
just askin’
And well done for those idealistic employees keeping the lights on at Saab-it is people like that who will save Saab again and again. And I am glad they exist and know that sometimes self sacrifice is a noble and impervious to criticism.
You have many people behind you also railing against the point of no return in the belief it can be done, it will get better, and Saab can be great again.
Khrisdk said on July 26, 2011
I think it is already running in the Forum
terry9000k said on July 27, 2011
Just added my comment, & go over & look at the silly deal I was offered today……
Emil said on July 26, 2011
I’ve yet to grok the concept of IP bans. As “twirix” just examplified, they simply don’t work. If I were to run a forum, I’d implement a function that would allow each user to filter out the posts (and replies to such posts) by whoever they like. When playing online poker, for instance, sometimes people behave like five-year-olds. I “mute” them, simple as that.
That said, I’ll look forward to getting my paycheck at a later date. Long as it comes before the overdue notices, I’m fine
Red J said on July 26, 2011
Emil,
maybe simpler mechanisms can be more effective, but you never know.
Swade said on July 27, 2011
A couple of things…..
Anders, we think alike, and it’s people like you (the company’s got LOTS of them) that make working at Saab, even in this situation, so enjoyable.
To all – running this site can be a joy, and it can be a pain in the arse as well. if you’d like to see moderators leave, just continue on dissing them and one another. I nearly shut up shop a bunch of times but carried on for the love of the brand. Thankfully I only had to show a handful of people the door over the six years I operated this site, but there are a few here that would have joined them.
——
About the substance of what some are saying……
Claims about VM draining the company are just preposterous. And in case you think I’m just a VM flunkie, if he were doing that, then he’d be taking food off my table, as well as the tables of people I care about dearly (more than I care about him, which I do). What you are suggesting is just plain wrong. In fact, there’s no-one who’s working harder for the company right now than him.
About the management and timing: funds were fully expected to be in place to pay salaries, but they’ve not arrived in our accounts. I’ll hopefully have more about that on IS tomorrow.
–
I understand the emotions and I know that people care about what happens to this company. 98% of people in this comments thread do and it means so much. But…..
PLEASE maintain some composure and clarity where you can. If you’re speculating, remember that you’re doing so because there’s so much more here at play than what people know. The fact that someone agrees with your speculations doesn’t make them correct. it makes them agreeable.
I’m not making any promises about anything. All I’m doing is continuing to fight on.
terry9000k said on July 27, 2011
Hi Steven,
How will this effect next month’s wages + production restart @ end of August…..?
Swade said on July 27, 2011
Hi Terry.
Plans were in place to pay wages this month and I’m sure they will be asap. The fact that this has happened (or hasn’t happened, more accurately), means that no promises can be made about it, especially not by me (I just write for a living). Common sense, however, dictates that management will want to retain staff and therefore, pay wages on time in order to do so. That will be the plan and only unforeseen circumstances would prevent it, such as what’s happened this month. We had a budget and we followed plans accordingly, only some of the ‘inwards’ side wasn’t fulfilled. The executive are working their tails off to make sure it does, asap.
meccano said on July 27, 2011
I have a question. Is there a union that represents these salaried or “white collar” workers that can put a bankruptcy claim against the company as in the case of the blue collar workers? I understand the best way for the workers to get paid is for the company to avoid bankruptcy, but just wondering if such a claim is possible. Hopefully this is just a bump in the road and financing will be in place any day now to make the subject of not meeting payroll obligations a mute point.
2T said on July 27, 2011
Which brings us back to the only really fundamental question : which funds didn’t come in and why ? That is where the key – and hopefully the solution – to this whole short term mess will be found….
Simon said on July 27, 2011
Hi all,
This is a privilege to get all these excellent informations about SAAB every day from SaabsUnited.
Please be optimistic and go outside to wash your SAAB or go for a ride with it. I have just bought a second SAAB two weeks ago, a SportCombi Turbo X. WOW!!! what a fantastic car to drive…and to wash…
Like some of you say to your child: close the computer and go play outside! (but come back tomorrow)
Y2K said on July 27, 2011
OK guys, this is it no matter what u feel or think!
The investors has withdrawn their commitments its stated … must mean that all the deals Muller has made are gone in the trash. Since Muller and his parrot has been quiet for a week now it might implicate Muller has secured his money and quietly left the stage … or any other explanation to the complete silence?
SouthSider said on July 27, 2011
What?
rallyho said on July 27, 2011
Did I miss the post that blamed Maud?
Had to be said, it just had to be..