Suppliers lost faith in Saab
July 22, 2011 in News
In several articles in Swedish media today, the CEO for the european supplier organization, Lars Holmqvist, states that even if Vladimir Antonov would be let in to Saab, he would not have enough money to restart operations.
- We’re talking about very large amounts. The EIB will never allow Vladimir to become a part-owner so he would need to find funds to pay off the loan and all the suppliers. We’re talking about sums of more than 4-5 billion SEK. This he states to P4 West.
- I’m sorry to say but we see the end of Saab. They have survived for a long time by short term solutions where they have managed to trick the suppliers to deliver parts without being able to pay for them.
Tobbe said on July 22, 2011
Hope he´s wrong, but this does not look so good. The faith in the brand is very very low to many.
Damn EIB, let VA in now!
Sadim said on July 22, 2011
If VA coughs up what Saab owes the EIB and what they owe GM, nobody will have any protests. But the EIB just don’t trust Mr Antonov. But he could easily take some of Snoras money and release the EIB and GM and get on with the Saab-project, However, for some reason he would like the EIB-loans to remain in the company. Seems strange to me…….
till72 said on July 22, 2011
Though 4-5 billiom SEK is not a horrible huge amount of money I think that Vladimirs ressources are limited too. So sure he would like the EIB loan to stay so Saab can do things step by step.
But right now that would be doing all things at one. Not easy . Not at all.
Sadim said on July 22, 2011
Well, if Antonov can’t save Saab – who can? The Chinese will not settle for less than all of Saab if VM keeps on getting payed for cars that are never produced.
DUTCH900C said on July 22, 2011
As i wrote in http://www.saabsunited.com/2011/07/saab-tools-bankruptcy.html#comment-145867 :
Sad, Sadier, Sadiest!!
Yes i know, that isn’t 100% good English
But let us hope there is coming a sollution for the problems!
Belfast_Saab said on July 22, 2011
Grim news indeed – without suppliers there is no future – we await a Saab press release no doubt, but haver to admit even I am beginning to have doubts…..
i. ant. kal. said on July 22, 2011
same here…
i. ant. kal. said on July 22, 2011
ok… i can’t work no more…
what is going on there?
Where is Swade?
Where is VM?
We need some interviews from VM now…
we don’t even know if the all new 93 is being designed right now…
I’ve heard nothing from J.C.
Nothing from V.M.
Please..i need some positive sh*” before the weekend starts folks!!!!
Swade said on July 22, 2011
I’m looking for more information before I write anything.
VM’s where he needs to be – dealing with things.
i. ant. kal. said on July 22, 2011
Thanks for answering!
I guess that was an… S.O.S. scream or something…
Carlo A said on July 22, 2011
The moment is a difficult one … but we have to keep cool … we knew more requests for money in time will come from suppliers ….
Anders said on July 22, 2011
i. ant. kal. :
I am still working on the 9-3, along with others that don’t have a vacation this summer. The project has not stopped.
i. ant. kal. said on July 22, 2011
huuuh….
well knowi feel much better…
if you need help let me know :0 i can help!
Belfast_Saab said on July 22, 2011
+1
Anders said on July 22, 2011
Well if any of you guys bring me some food that would be nice, all work no eat
i. ant. kal. said on July 22, 2011
hm.. should we ship you some food?
funny.. i can’t answer on Andreas.. so i am doing it here…
i can send you some Döner or so from Berlin
look i have deadlines too… without eating.. it is less creativity…
so when i will send you something… it will include some sketches…yes?!?
keke said on July 22, 2011
It lloks grim, but i havent seen a singing fat lady yet.
zippy said on July 22, 2011
The fat lady is still an anorexic super model so she cant sing.
RS said on July 22, 2011
I didn’t want to say it out loud at the time but what A STUPIT move imho to pay the taxes on time (well almost) when you’re in so much cash trouble and it does noting to help the situation. IRS can wait -they even make money on companies liquidity problems.
The only thing Saab should ever aim for is to get the plant running and have stuff to sell that creates real income. It’s what will pay for all these emergency/bridge loans in the end.
They’ve probably lost more than 100 MSEK in gross profit since April with the THN line standing still. It would have payed a lot of bills from suppliers and those sitting at the enforcement agency.
Sadim said on July 22, 2011
There is one thing a business does NOT do in Sweden, and that is delay tax payments. The tax people come down on you like a ton of bricks.
RS said on July 22, 2011
No they don’t. It takes weeks even before the notice to arrives.
Besides I’d rather see VM carry around 10 tons of bricks on his back, have the suppliers deliver parts and the factory running than the current situation. This is how you create money to pay these taxes. Not the other way around.
Piet-Hein Schlimme said on July 22, 2011
i think it becomes more and more obvious….
SAAB is not wanted anymore….
how do i explain to people why i have 2 9000′s?
Khrisdk said on July 22, 2011
Pleasure..
terry9000k said on July 22, 2011
YEP
jouni72 said on July 22, 2011
This is again one of those bad news -days… But so many times we have gone over the bridge what we can´t see now. This kind of news as today are losses, but remember how many wins there already are. Including China-things and in a way or antohter The Great Fighter and Defender Mr Antonov. It has been a long battle but goal is not that far away anymore. Whatever news are, stay positive and support Saab! It fully deserves it! We know that product is ok and it is just going through this fire.
Belfast_Saab said on July 22, 2011
Just bought a 2008MY 9-3 2.8T, can’t wait to get it tomorrow, be very sad if it my last…….my Viggen will stay in the driveway though and perhaps a pre-owned 9-5 someday…..good luck Saab, we’re all backing you.
dave said on July 22, 2011
I’ve been away a few hours and suddenly…another “black friday”. Sure we had a lot of these lately but this time, with the production stopped for months?
Where can we turn our fire to ? How can someone order a car in this situation ?
MrTinkertrain said on July 22, 2011
Welcome to the end.
I think that there will be no positive news,
I work at a relatively small company present in CEE but this company never would have made such big mistakes like Saab did.
It would have been better not to spend a lot of money on dreams to build the otherwise awesome Phoenix but to provide the long-term operation and first to start increase the production. VM might be good as car builder/lawyer but might not be good as CEO of a worldwide company. It is just a question of ego…
Olav said on July 22, 2011
So you are in the end?
Quite frankly, you cannot really mean that the money it took to build the Phoenix was enough to force the factory to this long hault. Concept cars are very important for a car company, and especially important for one who really need to show the world it’s presence. Concept cars aren’t necessarily that expensive to build compared to running a big car factory. That’s the hard facts.
And what mistakes has SAAB actually done? GM wasn’t actually a very generous and good owner for SAAB, and in that light SAAB has done a remarkable effort to still hang in there. It is extremely sad seeing all todays problems for SAAB, but please don’t forget that without Mr Muller and his friends SAAB was propably gone a couple of years ago. And, SAAB is still there, and so are all the rumours.
Have faith! The fat lady hasn’t sung yet.
SAAB and VM UP!
We have to keep calm and carry on!
marq101 said on July 22, 2011
People let’s put it in perspective!!! Mr Holmqvist never ever was positive about Saab. From the very beginning he has said that Saab would never make it. He has come to believe in his prophecies where there is no room for the fact that Saab can make it. So the title of this piece is wrong. It is not the suppliers that have lost faith. It is Mr Holmqvist who never had faith!
I think dreary mister Holmqvist (A Swede fot God’s sake) should either refrain from such remarks in his position or help the people he represents by finding a solution and fart a little less.
jouni72 said on July 22, 2011
Good information, I was also thinking about this because at the same time Saab has agreed with many suppliers, he speaks with his own mouth.
buckerst5 said on July 22, 2011
Time to order my new baic c71 then!
marq101 said on July 22, 2011
@MrTinkertrain could you enlighten me with your knowledge and tell me what mistakes have been made and by whom. Further can you tell me about the chicken and the egg?. I’m Referring to the Phoenix and increasing production.
I’m sorry but I must say I have had it a bit with all the people who know for sure that Saab is not going to make it but do not have the knowledge or insight to substantiate their prophecies
DUTCH900C said on July 22, 2011
I totaly agree with mister marq101.
nixschel said on July 22, 2011
Guys, what ever happened to “Keep calm and carry on”? There have been and always be a bunch of rather sad little people that will try and step into the spotlight. Regardless of what message they actually state, the “press” will jump on the bandwagon.
Our sources do frown but are stating very clearly that hard work is being done to take whatever hurdle in order to restart. This Holmquist should shut up, as he is now endangering not just Saab, but even worse, those working in the industry he is “representing”.. And he hasn’t got a leg to stand on…….
Let’s all calm down, stay positive and supportive. Let’s NOT fall into the same trap these wretched “press”morons are stepping into. We’re the community, we dealt with it during the Saab sale, and we will continue to do so, come hell or high water.
And, to make matters worse, there is information that Holmquist has actually based himself on the wrong information. Just wait and see, things are still on track for the restart of production.
Belfast_Saab said on July 22, 2011
…calming…….thank-you
jouni72 said on July 22, 2011
+1
DUTCH900C said on July 22, 2011
+1
obelix said on July 22, 2011
+2
Swade said on July 22, 2011
Good thoughts, Nic. Perspective before panic.
I know everyone’s interested in what’s going on here, and I know the trolls are jumping in and having a crack, but let them be, and allow the fuller story to come out. I can’t write it because I haven’t heard it all yet and I’ll wait to get fuller facts before doing so.
saabsessing said on July 22, 2011
+1 marq101 !!
I said it on 6/27 and I’ll say it again:
Can you imagine what the business world would be like if CEOs gave up every time a challenge (or string of challenges, as in Saab’s case) popped up? Thank god VM is at the helm and not one of us whiners – there isn’t a single one of us who would have lasted five minutes, let alone 18 months + (and counting) in his shoes.
There is only one Saab, and I WILL NOT GIVE UP HOPE.
KEEP FIGHTING MR. MULLER, and LONG LIVE SAAB!!
jouni72 said on July 22, 2011
Saabsessing, I remember Your comment. It is so true! +1!
Tripod said on July 22, 2011
I remember, and agree; guess I’ll have to comment otherwise no one will know. Seems to be the case nowadays.
I agree, I can think of many that wouldn’t last that long.
MrTinkertrain said on July 22, 2011
I am only talking about the visible mistakes. Of course I am not working at Saab’s management. I would like to remain optimistic but I am too realistic: this is pure business and money is in first place. Guess please, making a concept car like Phoenix is cheap or expensive? I guess it is very expensive. And if I am right it is a big mistake, spending money on somewhat which does not result is profit in a situation like Saab was in, after some months of re-birth.
This is big business and the story basically is about money and faith. Both are lacking.
MrTinkertrain said on July 22, 2011
And, beleive in me: I love Saab. This is me who is one of the most disappointed amongst us. We have Saabs for 12 years and we love(d) them all.
Kittciokas said on July 22, 2011
Why does bad news mostly comes on fridays?
ivo 71 said on July 22, 2011
For more info about the company that has requested bankruptcy of Saab Tools:
http://www.saabsunited.com/2011/07/saab-tools-bankruptcy.html#comment-145937 , comments 53 and 54
Ivo
74StingSaab said on July 22, 2011
I refuse to loose faith in Saab, a solution will be found and I trust Saab management to do this task. All the negative comments reminds me of a old Clint Eastwood Classic “Kelly’s Heros”
Oddball is always going at Moriarty about “negative waves”… have a little faith baby, have a little faith.
Olav said on July 22, 2011
Hi, 74StingSaab.
That’s one heck of a great movie! One of my absolute favorites
Changing subject: We, as proud SAAB owners, don’t need ejection seats
. Have a nice weekend!
SpinM said on July 22, 2011
No doubt the situations is serious, but when it comes to faith, I am with you 100%. And anyone who thinks otherwise should repeat to him/herself “Keep calm and carry on”. After all, people, as a community we’ve had more than a fair share of Mr. Holmquists, Prof. Dudenhofers and similar naysayers. We can’t run for cover everytime one of those manages to find a chance for some publicity.
TonymacUK said on July 22, 2011
This might well have been answered previously amongst the myriad posts, but wat happens to the money from the 9-4X? Does GM take that?
Swade said on July 22, 2011
Tony, GM produce the 9-4x for Saab, so they have to get paid for doing that.
cmd said on July 22, 2011
I totally agree that we should not loose our trust in the survival of Saab. I did my part when I did order a new 9-4x Aero with a estimated delivery date for September. Today I’ve been informed that the choosen color Cobalt Grey will not be produced. But more painfull the fact, that my 9-4x will not be produced at all, as long as my Dealer does not sign a new contract with Saab. As he did not so far, the weeks ago placed order has not been accepted by Saab.
Well, Gents at Saab! I think that’s it! If you do not want my money for a new Aero, there will not be Saab Number 8 in my garage soon.
Carl-Henrik said on July 22, 2011
Isn’t there another dealer close by? This sounds more like a problem regarding your dealer and not towards Saab, as I bet that Saab would be very happy with your order for a 9-4x.
cmd said on July 22, 2011
Well, there are dealers near by. I don’t know if they signed the additional contract or not. Just the fact that my order, which has been placed weeks ago has not been accepted because my dealer, which by the way is a 100% Saab Dealer since ever, did not sign a addendum to his dealer contract, makes me angry. If I do right now order one somewhere else, the new delivery date will be October or November. I do understand that a single order out several hundred thousands is nothing, but this is not the case here.
Carl-Henrik said on July 22, 2011
I can see Swade has made contact with you. Go through his channels. And I fully understand your worries. There is nothing more I would like than for you to be able to drive around in the car you want. Any order is just as important as any other order!
Swade said on July 22, 2011
CMD, we’d love your order for an Aero, but that order has to be placed through a member of the dealer network who can deliver it when it arrives. If your dealer is opting out of the Saab dealer network, that is his/her choice. It’s bad for you (and worse for us) but it sounds like you’re blaming us for the consequences of his/her decision. We obviously want your order, and I hope there’s another dealer nearby who’ll be able to facilitate it. If I can assist at all, please let me know via the contact page at insidesaab.com
A number of colors were lost from the color palette because of the disaster in Japan earlier this year. This has affected a number of carmakers, including us.
cmd said on July 22, 2011
Hi Swade
thanks for your quick reply! This is giving me hope that not everything is lost so far. I hope you can understand that I cannot point out the name of the dealer, but it is a 100% Saab dealer.
I do know that the color issue is a Saab issue, but personally it is sad.
Swade said on July 22, 2011
No need to name the dealer but as posted before, if you’d like me to try and assist with this then please do let me know via insidesaab.com
MrTinkertrain said on July 22, 2011
All right. Thanks to you I became a little bit more optimistic. @Olaf: yes, this is the end of me:)
My nerves are getting worse:)
Olav said on July 22, 2011
Don’t worry, we’ll pick you up for the rest of this very long journey we have just barely started. We’ll make it!
Carl-Henrik said on July 22, 2011
Please refer to the updated post regarding SwePart’s demand for Saab Tools to go into bankruptcy. Not all suppliers have lost faith at all.
Ove said on July 22, 2011
Mr Holmqvist is a bitter old man that once was fired from a supplier to Saab .
Again he gives an incorrect statement to prove his incompetence.
As I see it it is based on his own feelings for the company and he is not taking his clients interest in to account.
The value is based on VA to pay all loans and pay GM for the ref. shares. The figure is not the amount needed to pay all outstandings and re-start production. around 10% of the figure is enough
kochje said on July 22, 2011
Can the Swedish media also interview people that have a positive idea about this all?
But as ever; bad news is so much more interesting.
I will go on holiday and see what happens in week 35.
To hell to all these ego’s that think they must say something negative.
Carl-Henrik said on July 22, 2011
Please refer to the post regarding the demand for Saab Tools to enter bankruptcy. There are suppliers being positive and continue to work with Saab. This negative attitude is not amongst all of them.
Sadim said on July 22, 2011
It makes very little difference whether it is one or ten suppliers filing for Saab’s bankruptcy. One is quite enough. And what will happen when Muller pays off this company’s debt? There are 5 more companies waiting for cash from Saab Tools. They will all file applications and then the ball starts rolling.
Next, those companies that Saab Automobile owe money will begin to wonder….. “Well if they got paid, maybe we should start up the same process…….
Tripod said on July 22, 2011
“… maybe we should start up the same process…”
But as Carl-Henrik said, many suppliers are in another process, namely working with Saab about payments and shipments.
Belfast_Saab said on July 22, 2011
Saab press release……..Swedish Automobile N.V. confirms that one of the suppliers of Saab Automobile Tools AB (Saab Tools) filed for bankruptcy of Saab Tools, a subsidiary of Saab Automobile AB. The District Court has received the filing, but has not yet rendered a judgement which is expected in a few weeks. Saab Tools is currently assessing the issue and aims to resolve the issue as soon as possible.
mnztr said on July 22, 2011
He is right about the amount of money needed to float SAAB. They will require 2-300M at MINIMUM just to operate production. Let alone invest in new vehicles… they are in a really bad place right now. Even as the plant sits they are probably burning 15M/month in taxes and salaries with ZERO inbound cashflow. It is like trying to save a bleeding patient.