All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others.

This quote from Animal Farm by George Orwell comes to my mind when I read the last article from Di.se on the discussions with their subcontractors.

It looks like Kongsberg Automotive is not willing to accept the terms Saab is offering to all of its suppliers, although most of them do.

This sentence (hope gg-trans got it right) says it all.

“Some who have more to claim ought to be able to get a better deal than others,” said Joachim Magnusson (CEO of Kongsberg Automotive) to Di.

Even Swepart Tools, is receiving now only 10% of the debt and the rest in September, according to Di.

I think the all the suppliers should listen to Svenåke Berglie, Managing Director at Scandinavian Automotive Suppliers, when he says that the suppliers can earn more if Saab restarts production than from a bankruptcy of Saab.


I forgot to thank KarlR for the hint, sorry.

DUTCH900C
Member
5 years 1 month ago

Is Joachim Magnusson related to Maud Olofsson and/or Anders Borg?

WD78
Member
5 years 1 month ago

Regarding Swepart Tools… This is in todays issue of Dagens Industri (sorry, cant find that article online):

The company’s employees in Skåne Tyringe is now working with the development of tools to push the plate body to the new 9-3 model. “We see no delay, we follow the plan so that it can be launched in the market as planned,” says Lars Thunberg.

Toby K
Member
5 years 1 month ago

I can’t wait!!!

As I suspected the development still goes on, I truly hope they can do something special and still release it despit the current situation, I love the fact commited people still work hard doing what they know best in such adversity.

If you build it. I will buy it-I have promised myself one for a long time.
Make it a black aero hatchback with the e-AAM system at the back.

Carlo A
Member
5 years 1 month ago

Me too… I am waiting for that to replace my 2001 9-3 TID …. the current 9-5 is too big for ma ….

Nate 9-3
Member
5 years 1 month ago

The car that you describe is simply awesome. I hope that you get one!

900 classic cab
Guest
5 years 1 month ago

“…suppliers can earn more if Saab restarts production than from a bankruptcy of Saab.”
Is this only obvious to us and not for the suppliers ? Who will they supply if they loose such an important client ?
unbelievable…

Belfast_Saab
Member
5 years 1 month ago
Dave, we have one view of this since we all wish Saab to surive – but we have to understand suppliers face difficulties in the immediate short term which may be fatal to them long before Saab can get back to production, before it can increase sales and long before it again has surplus cash to pay suppliers. Whereas Saab has received cash upfront for cars not yet built, the suppliers have provided goods not yet paid for……I’m sure all suppliers would wish Saab to survive and be a major customer, but if they aren’t going to survive to see… Read more »
900 classic cab
Guest
5 years 1 month ago

Yeah…I understand to some point…But wouldn’t most of them go bankrupt if the same happened to SAAB ?

Belfast_Saab
Member
5 years 1 month ago

Possibly, but others might just scale back and focus on new markets, exports etc.

lud909
Guest
5 years 1 month ago
dave (and many other on this forum)! Have you done any research before making comments about the suppliers? Many of Saab’s suppliers are much larger than Saab Auto itself. Kongsberg Automotive, which the above article refers to, has over 11 000 employees in 20 countries and 35 production facilities. The same is true for many more of the crucial suppliers. Saab is a minor client to these companies but they would brake the company’s obligation to its shareholders by not collecting the monies. Apart from non-Swedish companies that these suppliers have as clients in Sweden alone there are Volvo Cars… Read more »
v4ever
Guest
5 years 1 month ago
Muller is trying to protect his business, Joachim Magnusson is trying to protect his. He obviously believes, rightly or wrongly, that Saab does not have a future so he is moving to protect his interests and those of his employees. What people have to realise is that the motor trade worldwide is deep in the brown smelly stuff and there is no room for sentiment. Everyone one this board loves Saab and has long standing ties to the brand. But the outside world sees purely the numbers & right now some people don’t feel they add up Its nothing personal,… Read more »
Khrisdk
Member
5 years 1 month ago

Tat’s absolutely correct.
What he may not take into consideration with hi sttement is that if payments was to be dependant of the suppliers size and outstanding claims GM would take all

Belfast_Saab
Member
5 years 1 month ago

fair point – GM have been silent throughout this period presumably so as not to fan the flames of what they hoped would be (perhaps long) payback period.

Grumpy
Member
5 years 1 month ago
This is a classic case of self-fulfilling prophecy. Kongsberg thinks, contrary to most suppliers that Saab will default. Therefore they try to get as much as possible now rather than subscribing to the deal, as do most suppliers. The fact that their own behaviour may force a default seems to be totally lost on them or totally calculated. Very short sighted and I cannot fathom how they reason that they will get more money out of Saab from a bankruptcy than just playing ball and waiting a bit longer. But heck I am not a supplier in the automotive business,… Read more »
Toby K
Member
5 years 1 month ago

it is a shame when I get the feeling Saab are on the edge of something really good…I hope they keep finding the extra cash -and that the EIB actually help them out this time….I can’t believe they now have 12,000 cars on order!!

Tripod
Member
5 years 1 month ago
“All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others.” Exactly, my thought as well, when I read it. Soon we will be at point in time when they all would have received most of their money, perhaps all, had they accepted the initial deals. Or perhaps even some time ago. But no, some are a bit stubborn. Prolonging this will not get them their money any quicker, a restarted production is the best way for them to get their money. And continue to get money. I think Saab had sold more every month than the earlier, on most… Read more »
Toby K
Member
5 years 1 month ago

Saab must be the most exclusive small brand (that is not a supercar) anywhere in the world what is the average production rate per day this year?? 5 cars a day? Maybe 10?

Its not a good business model-I hope they get sorted but I do feel very special driving my Saabs right now-I think Aston Martin have made more cars this year!!
Doesn’t the extra exclusivity make more people want something rare and special? or does everyone just follow the crowds these days?

jet black
Member
5 years 1 month ago

I fear the latter is true. It’s so easy to follow the herd 🙁

ANA
Member
5 years 1 month ago

Animal Farm was a satire about communism so I don’t see this as the best simile for this situation. Clearly in a market economy one looks after ones own best-interests. Like VM, Joachim Magnusson is trying to protect his company and do the best possible job for his shareholders. Hopefully an agreement can be made.

Angel-off
Member
5 years 1 month ago

Is it too much trouble for SAAB to change its suppliers?

till72
Member
5 years 1 month ago

Depends on what they supply.

ANA
Member
5 years 1 month ago

@Angel-off
Not such a good idea.
If Saab was lucky enough to find suppliers who could tool-up quickly and provide parts at the correct quality then the original suppliers would definitely drag Saab through the courts.

jond
Member
5 years 1 month ago
I’m a little confused. We’re told that the deal with suppliers is 10% now and most of the remainder in September (next month). So, what do they know is going to happen later this month or early next in order that Saab should be able to almost clear the debts to suppliers? The Chinese have not yet submitted the application to the NDRC and when they do that it may take another six months or more to get approval, if that is forthcoming. A serious amount of investment is needed to nearly clear the debts to suppliers. So where is… Read more »
900_S
Member
5 years 1 month ago

I would think Saab is worth more to its suppliers alive than dead. I guess it depends…

whoozy2002
Guest
5 years 1 month ago

as details of the e-mail to Timr remains unknown i see Saab entering a mini esque hibernation. only a solid player with deep pockets and a well established sales and distribution network can make this work. sentiment is the key, a work colleague went to an auction today and two ex government 9-3ss biopower [decent specs] with low km’s garnered one bid each some A$4-5k below their reserve. i am dismayed at the lack of transparency by SWAN and VM. [i am also trying to find out how to cancel my registration to su].

bpsorrel
Member
5 years 1 month ago

You guys must have some sympathy for the suppliers. Like them, I supply (a service, not parts) to the motor industry (Ford in this case) and if they were to hold up payment in the way Saab have done, I would be bankrupt by now. These guys have a responsibility to look after their businesses and staff – there has to be a point at which they cannot go on waiting.

I feel for all concerned, it’s a real viscious circle, but please, don’t be harsh on the suppliers for wanting to remain in business!

rune
Member
5 years 1 month ago

I doubt they will get their money faster by forcing the issue now. But by forcing the issue, they will have to find new customers to replace Saab and they won’t see any of the Pang Da money. They know the order book is full, but I doubt they know just what will happen in case Saab declares bankruptcy.

ANA
Member
5 years 1 month ago

I agree totally with bpsorrel.

Just remember that Saab could not pay its employees because an investor was supposedly late with a payment – well the same thing has been happening for months with the suppliers not being paid by Saab. Cut these guys some slack they are an innocent casualty in all of this and they are crucial to Saab’s survival.

Belfast_Saab
Member
5 years 1 month ago

+1

Tripod
Member
5 years 1 month ago
I agree that they are crucial, and I feel for most of them. But as it has unfolded, each one of them have only one part to discuss with, Saab; but Saab on the other hand suddenly have several hundred. That’s a gigantic puzzle. I am confident that the people at Saab wanted this year to be a year were they presented their great new models, 9-4x and 9-5 SC, together with the updated 9-3, on their way to success, shared with the suppliers. As it is now, one can’t help but wonder how bad it was, before the production… Read more »
Leeloo
Member
5 years 1 month ago
(Ok, have to stick my nose out again…probably get beaten up for it but still..) Yes, you are right, completely. The thing is that it has now gone that long time since last production that most suppliers already have moved on with new jobs with other companies or have gone bankrupt. Like i wrote in an earlier comment some weeks ago about my best friends wife down the street who works for a Saab supplier. They have already moved on with new clients and customers. Saab has still not paid them and they will as well never go back to… Read more »
spacy
Guest
5 years 1 month ago

Re; All animals are equal

Tell that to the wilderrbeast as the Lion eats it.

hilmar
Member
5 years 1 month ago

It´s not easy to show sympathy in this case. So many suppliers found a solution with Saab. How long are they working together, Kongsberg and Saab ? Aren´t there no personal connections, could they leave in this special situation ? Think they got their money all the years before. So why not help a longstanding business partner in these times ?

bpsorrel
Member
5 years 1 month ago

Maybe they can’t wait much longer. Maybe THEIR creditors are calling, maybe they’re facing bankruptcy.
I’ll wager these guys wouldn’t force the situation if they didn’t need to.

Survival, that’s what it’s about…

hilmar
Member
5 years 1 month ago

O.k. – I understand. A real shame that it happens right now. Wrong time, wrong scene. How will it work with suppliers leaving …. 🙁

bpsorrel
Member
5 years 1 month ago

This is the catch 22! Some suppliers will be able to survive, I’m sure, but some won’t. How Saab will be able to continue in the short term without them is anybodies guess. It will take time to replace them and get tooling etc sorted out.

No kidding guys, I’m worried…. 🙁

lud909
Guest
5 years 1 month ago

Hilmar, are your comments a joke? I assume you have never met the purchasing department of any medium to large organisation….. If Saab could get the same product to a better deal than with the current ones they would switch suppliers without a thought and no regard taken to personal connections etc. This is business! The suppliers have already shown a lot of good faith and not enforced bankrupcy already.

hilmar
Member
5 years 1 month ago

Keep calm – I only thought there is some more than money and business. Not joking.

guy55
Member
5 years 1 month ago

WANTED!!!!!!
SEARCHIN A SAAB GRIFFIN CONVERTIBLE IN OAK COLOR, HE WAS WAITING IN APRIL 2011 OF 2012,
GREATS AN EVERYBODY

Meller
Member
5 years 1 month ago
Yhym…. so the post suggests that if most (how many?) suppliers have already accepted the Saab offer, then it means all the rest should/is expected/must do the same? Gents! There is democracy, open market, economic rules etc. Konsberg has a diferent point of view and want to do exactly the same what Saab wanted to do (and still wants to do!) with the suppliers: push them to the wall! It’s a game! As simple as that. They don;t have to care about Saab. They do care about their own business. I’m sure Saab would not care about Konsberg’s problems and… Read more »
ANA
Member
5 years 1 month ago

+1

skn
Member
5 years 1 month ago

Sorry to be such a bore, but there are some of us who live for BOTH money AND mission. The two are NOT mutually exclusive. I think VM thinks the same.

Griffin Up, Indeed

ANA
Member
5 years 1 month ago

The suppliers’ management have a responsibility to act in the best interests of their shareholders – they are accountable and therefore their aims will not be the same as Saabs. Not sure why is this so difficult to understand..

Grumpy
Member
5 years 1 month ago
Not Sire I agree with you there. I have some experience with dealing with suppliers in Large organizations and in my experience it is NOT all about the money. Personal relationships and shared history plays a major role in any renewal discussion and if you go back for a long time it is even more important. saab’s suppliers have a choice to take the offer and get their money later or play the lottery of the enforcement agency and the bankruptcy. Both options benefits from the highest possible subscription, possibly only 100% subscription to either option is enough to avoid… Read more »
bpsorrel
Member
5 years 1 month ago

+1

zippy
Member
5 years 1 month ago
What no one seems to ask is how did this situation get so bad in the first place assurely there were warning signs long before the you-know-what hit the fan in late March? It appears that this issue was left to fester for too long early in the year and Saab employees now find themselves in this seemingly endless predicament of “where is my next paycheque coming from?”. Saab needs a CEO and it seems that VM has been far too quiet for far too long. 🙁 The Swedish governments indifference to the whole situation is also rather alarming to… Read more »
wpDiscuz