A possible Plan D?

Yesterdays no to the reorganization plan was like a punch in the face. Honestly I don’t really get all points from the reasoning of the court but that’s another topic. But it made me think. Think about other options that Saab may have to get through this. I brought that thought further and even after I discussed it with Tim it still didn’t seem completely unrealistic. So I decided to share it here.

How about starting an unofficial reorganization? This idea is based on the fact that all parties (suppliers, unions, potential investors) were really positive on Saab filing for reconstruction. So if the court won’t agree how about getting everyone at one table to reach a binding agreement requiring certain behaviour and actions from every party.

The suppliers would have to agree to a payment plan that allows Saab to restart production as soon as possible. Lars Holmquist, the head of CLEPA just recently said they would be willing to do so if Saab pays at least a part of its debt. Still, as mentioned in the filing for reorganization, the aim should be that all get paid in full. Furthermore the suppliers would have to stop their claims at the enforcement agency to give Saab some more breathing space. I have no exact knowledge about the Swedish laws but at least here in Germany it would be possible.

Saab would have to present a detailed plan how they think they can get out of this mess and would have to agree on an independent administrator to overview all moves of the company. He has to be a person every party trusts. So the suppliers and the unions can be sure that everything is done in a proper way to make Saab succeed. The administrator may even check the viability of Saabs plans while the whole agreement is negotiated. In the end he is the one who’s judgement everyone has to follow.

Regarding the unions – I’m following Tim’s therory that Saab has the money to pay the wages but can’t do so because they’d have to pay the enforcement agency first. So if the claims from the enforcement agency are out of the picture Saab could pay the wages. It will be the administrator’s job to secure that enough money to pay the employees is set aside every month. The timely payment of the wages is obligatory and if that doesn’t happen the unions may declare bankrupcy at once.

It’s a pretty rough description of the plan but thinking it through several times I found no big issue that would make it totally unrealistic. You may ask why something like that should be possible. Well, just because noone, really noone benefits from bankrupcy in any way. The suppliers may get about zero money and many of them will not be able to survive, the employees get their wages paid but they will loose their jobs. So such a scenario will be worth a try for everyone.

Let’s keep up the hope. Saab is not dead yet. There are still things you can throw a kitchen sink at.

Motoradd's Cat
Member
5 years 20 days ago

Great Idea in principle.

What about issuing shares to CLEPA members who are owed money in lieu of payment?

It would be in their collective interests.

Audun
Member
5 years 20 days ago

+1

Audun
Member
5 years 20 days ago

I sounds like a good and healty plan! 🙂

Audun
Member
5 years 20 days ago

It sounds like a good and healty plan! 🙂

ANA
Member
5 years 19 days ago

I am sorry to be negative but this ‘plan’ is totally unrealistic and anyone who thinks that this might be anything more than a pipe-dream needs to take a big reality check.

The only solutions, that I can see is,1) A successful appeal and subsequent reorganisation or 2) that an investor puts in at least 150 million Euros.

It is not as simple as just putting in enough cash to pay the salaries as this money would likely to be impounded by the enforcement agency.

There is still hope….. But just a little.

welshwizard645
Member
5 years 20 days ago
Situation won’t be resolved unless cars start rolling off the production line. Wasn’t there a healthy order book? I took my car in for its MOT yesterday (thank you Saab GB!) at Ian Allan Motors…no new cars in stock – the main showroom now has used cars and the dealer is plugging for services from other brands. When I took her in for a service there were a number of new 9-5s in stock, now gone. So once all the stock has vanished, where will any future money come from? I really don’t understand the situation, economics aren’t my strong… Read more »
900_S
Member
5 years 20 days ago

+1 Let’s hurry up and get something in place so cars can get built!

Tolstoy Syndrome
Member
5 years 20 days ago

http://sverigesradio.se/sida/artikel.aspx?programid=83&artikel=4687867

Seriously. Why do not you might as well rename saabunited to the communistunited? What V. Muller is doing now is illegal and he is at risk to being arrested. Yet you defend his fraudulent behavior as small children defends their bucket in the sandbox. Pathetic!

I really hope that the authorities locks up Muller in a really dark cell and that you once and for all understand that illegality does not pay. Then you should perhaps consider why the brand Saab is currently composed entirely of badwill. Take and look at sales figures to see what consumers think.

Lars S
Member
5 years 20 days ago

Sorry, I seem to have missed the constructive part of your post. Would you be so kind and repeat it?

Tolstoy Syndrome
Member
5 years 20 days ago

What V. Muller is doing now is illegal. What V. Muller had made ​​the last three months are illegal. Everyone understands this except a handful of fanatics, most of which are on this page.

900 classic cab
Guest
5 years 20 days ago

Well, what some “authorities” have been doing to not allow interesting investments that would prevent the current situation might not be illegal…but they surely are playing dirty to.

Audun
Member
5 years 19 days ago

+99

spacy
Guest
5 years 19 days ago

.
Re; What V. Muller is doing now is illegal

Please clarify clearly what these illegal things are?. including why they are illegal.

Don’t worry if it takes you a while, we’ll all still be here, waiting for your answer……

hans h
Member
5 years 20 days ago

Saab is currently composed entirely of badwill.

I really hope that the authorities locks up Muller in a really dark cell

Can’t you do better than that?

Audun
Member
5 years 20 days ago

+900

Tolstoy Syndrome
Member
5 years 20 days ago

Does´nt need to. Have you read the link? 😉

spacy
Guest
5 years 19 days ago

With a sun tan machine…Ha!!

Tolstoy Syndrome
Member
5 years 20 days ago
Tolstoy Syndrome is a description of a behavior of humans who ignore the truth despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary. The behavior is named after a quote from Count Leo Tolstoy (1828-1910): “I know that most men, including those at ease with problems of the greatest complexity, can seldom accept the simplest and most obvious truth if it be such as would oblige them to admit the falsity of conclusions which they have proudly taught to others, and which they have woven, thread by thread, into the fabrics of their life”. A related Tolstoy quote is “The most difficult subjects… Read more »
Motoradd's Cat
Member
5 years 20 days ago

Tolstoy Syndrome is a great name for a band!

Olav
Member
5 years 20 days ago

Exactly my thought as well! 🙂

Pedro
Member
5 years 20 days ago

Actually it is a great name for a band!

spacy
Guest
5 years 19 days ago

More like a vodka name, maybe that’s it….his been on it.

hans h
Member
5 years 20 days ago

The point is that people have been bashing Saab for various unfounded reasons for many years by people reasoning like you. Saab 9-5 is an Opel, or a Buick and the sooner we realilse that the healthier we will get.
But it is still wrong.

Saab may be no more. Or Saab mat survive. But you have some strange interest in our mental health. As if we were deranged people who should be sanitized, ore removed, along with Saab.
Do you also like this quote:

War is peace

Troels, Denmark
Member
5 years 19 days ago

Thanks for explaining the Tolstoy Syndrome, which seem to be at fitting name for you, as you regard all people, who sees qualities in Saab as fanatics.

spacy
Guest
5 years 19 days ago

Lord, I’ve been fanatictised for over 25 years….

Grumpy
Member
5 years 19 days ago
I think you said it just there Tolstoy, why don’t you read your own comment. What exactly do you think you will achieve by coming here to this site saying we need to see the real truth. If it illegal, and has been for months why hasn’t the proper authorities in Sweden or in Holland reacted? and why haven’t you gone to the police to file a complaint? Most of the people coming here are UNITET for SAAB and it will take a great deal to change that. And in my case a smartass that has read a bit of… Read more »
No 9
Member
5 years 19 days ago

I hope this is free advice, cause it sure aint worth dill!

tauentzien
Member
5 years 20 days ago

Who tells you, that the money has already reached Saab? You don’t know anything about the situation. So you should be very careful to tell “the world” that somebody is a criminal. The only crime I can see today is your post. Defamation is a criminal act, never forget that!

Audun
Member
5 years 20 days ago

+9000

Pedro
Member
5 years 20 days ago

If the money hasn’t reached SAAB, then VM cannot state that “there is money to the employees’ salaries but that the company is forbidden by law to pay them because many subcontractors also requires money from Saab”. Or can he?

Tolstoy Syndrome
Member
5 years 20 days ago

After Viktor Muller’s statement will now bailiff during the day turn to the Saab and ask how much money Saab is and why they have not been paid to the bailiff. If not, Viktor Muller abide by the rules so he risks being arrested.

Whatever you may think about Sweden, we do not arrest innocent people just because they think “differently”.

rune
Member
5 years 20 days ago

But random accusations are OK?

tauentzien’s explanation is the simplest one and one I thought myself when I first listened to the press conference.

obelix
Member
5 years 20 days ago

VM has stated that there is money to pay the salaries. He didn’t state Saab has the money.
So far, inncocent until proven guilty.

OddJob
Member
5 years 20 days ago

Hi Inger E alias Norah4U alias Tolstoy Syndrome,
I think you’ve finally found yourself a suiting name.

Pedro
Member
5 years 20 days ago
Sorry, guys. Here it is in English: Muller’s statement upsets enforcement officer Enforcement officer now reacts strongly to Saab’s owner Viktor Muller’s statement this morning in Radio that there is money to the employees’ salaries but that the company is forbidden by law to pay them because many subcontractors also requires money from Saab. Muller’s statement came as a surprise to the bailiff. – Absolutely, I have asked this question before, and then you have not had the money, says Hans Ryberg, head of the magistrate’s office in Uddevalla. He also says that Victor Muller has been guilty of a… Read more »
Butzel
Member
5 years 20 days ago

We can’t judge about these accusations; however, this isn’t helpful for SAABs reputation at all. Hope VM can get out of this quickly.

Red J
Member
5 years 20 days ago

Pedro, I’ve deleted the Swedish version as any one is able to follow a link.
Ant to your question before.
No we do not censor links to “non-Saab-friendly” contents, even to sites like TTaC, although the last thing I want is give that site any kind of traffic.

Pedro
Member
5 years 20 days ago

I replied above, re TS 😉
Thanks for the rearrangement of the article: I copy-pasted the Swedish version by mistake…

Pedro
Member
5 years 20 days ago

This was suposed to nest under Red J September 9, 2011 at 13:43’s comment…

OliverH
Member
5 years 20 days ago
I think we need an other person acting to the press as a proxy/ converter. There’s to much political stuff and we need a pragmatic solution. VM is an alpha person seems to stand and react like a one man show and is better than others – for a person outside of the process. Maybe the reorganization had better chances with the old management. In a situation like this it’s useful to have all parties on board. They had to prove with court if all is fine. They showed VM that the level to reach reorganization isn’t such low as… Read more »
Butzel
Member
5 years 19 days ago

I fully agree. In my opinion it’s a huge difference to manage Spyker or SAAB. I appreciate VMs enthusiasm, but he can’t manage all by himself.

sportwagon28t
Member
5 years 19 days ago

+1
VM has charisma thats for sure, but then so does my tennis coach and he couldnt run a Company like Saab!

Bankrupcy is the best solution to get shot of VM, alternatively if short term funding is secured VM should get a CEO in that will have a clue. and fast

OddJob
Member
5 years 19 days ago

As the headline says, lets discuss Plan D.

saabman
Member
5 years 19 days ago
There’s an article about this in Dagens Nyheter, which suggests that so far as the enforcement agency knows Saab does not have sufficient funds to pay staff or its bills. It would be a violation of the law if Saab did, but the agency hasn’t found it. It could be that the funds are in foreign bank accounts. But I really suspect that Saab does not have the funds in its own accounts. It has a few million kronor, but not enough to meet its obligations. However, I suspect that Muller knows where to get the money for salaries should… Read more »
Jake
Member
5 years 19 days ago

What the hell does Hans Ryberg, a random employee of the Swdeish government, know???

Nothing. It’s about the most disrespectful thing I could imagine to have a random ***hole accuse you of being a criminal.

Idiot.

Pedro
Member
5 years 19 days ago

Well, to make a (at times too) serious thread a little lighter, opinions are like ***holes… everybody has one… 😉

I should point out, however, that to my knowledge attacking people (either by calling them criminals that belong in jail or ***aholes) is against the rules on how to comment on this website…

ivo 71
Member
5 years 19 days ago

Jake is probably the youngest member of SU, 13 whole years of age, I believe. That’s why he is being cut some slack, I suppose.

Ivo

Jake
Member
5 years 19 days ago
I’m 14 😉 but I doubt that many people at SU know that… I dunno if I’m immature in my comments at times; I guess it’s all relative… I try not to be, though. I thought long and hard before posting that comment… It just outraged me that someone would dare to call VM a criminal, when he works so had for Saab, so that part may have been misunderstood by Pedro… VM doesn’t deserve the junk he gets in the media, or at least what I read. Hans Ryberg probably doesn’t read SU, but if he does, then well…… Read more »
ivo 71
Member
5 years 19 days ago

It’s all right, Jake, we understand. And everybody who has been on SU for a year or more (and is still in possession of a functioning memory) knows about your age. You have told us many times, the most recent being -I think- at the time of the ad competition. But no worries old boy ;-), we take you just as seriously as any other Saab afficionado. Young is not, by definition, synonymous with dumb. Just like old doesn’t always come with wisdom. That much I do know 🙁 .

Ivo

Jake
Member
5 years 19 days ago

Thanks for that, Ivo. 🙂

Jake
Member
5 years 19 days ago

Pedro-
Thanks for the reminder… I’ll admit I got a bit carried away, and could have called him something slightly more pleasant… But from what I read, Mr. Ryberg was the one of accusing VM of being a criminal, which means that he wouldn’t be allowed in the comments section on SU… 😀 I wasn’t causing anyone of being a criminal. But I do apologize if I offended anyone. 🙂

Sadim
Member
5 years 19 days ago

In which interview did Ryberg accuse Muller of being a criminal?

Jake
Member
5 years 19 days ago

Sadim-The one that Tolstoy Syndrome (who is now banned) brought up in comments a couple of posts back.

OddJob
Member
5 years 19 days ago

In what way does that have to do with Plan D?
By the way, which is your favorite Saab model?

rune
Member
5 years 19 days ago

http://di.se/Artiklar/2011/9/9/244748/saab9-Muller-berattar-inte-var-pengarna-finns/

“may have been guilty of a crime”.

The article does not translate well. Other news sources picks it up… http://www.rtl.nl/components/financien/rtlz/nieuws/2011/36/saabtopman-muller-riskeert-arrestatie.xml reports that VM is risking arrest…

You know: Guilty until proven inncoent.

I strongly suspect Ryberg’s initial comment to the journalist was fairly low key and general in nature. But that does not sell news.

OddJob
Member
5 years 19 days ago

Let’sstop this media-driven discussion now with an article from TTELa.

Over to the topic:
Plan D is the most Brilliant idea I’ve heard for years. Beat the system. Do the unexpected

Carlo A
Member
5 years 20 days ago

why communistunited? are we affected by the Tolstoy syndrome or is it a question of politics? or possibly only communists are affected by the Tolstoy syndrome ……

jokes apart, if what VM is doing is illegal, it would be a tribunal to decide it ….

on the psychological diagnosis, thank you very much, but I do not see anything wrong in hoping the a financial solution is found for the benefit firstly of the employees and their families. And my benefit too as I would like to carry on driving a SAAB …

Carmania
Member
5 years 19 days ago

You must understand that 95% of the people at SVT (Swedish state television) are in fact communists.

Carlo A
Member
5 years 19 days ago

🙂

Lars S
Member
5 years 19 days ago

I don’t think a communist would be happy about that statement. Neither am I. Sweden hasn’t even got a communist party represented in the parliament so this is highly unlikely.

Leeloo
Member
5 years 19 days ago

+1:)

Khrisdk
Member
5 years 19 days ago

Maybe it is time for me to change my Nick to Schrödingers Cat(Copenhagen interpretation of course) 😉

Chris Carrier
Member
5 years 19 days ago

Congrats, everyone on handling this troll well I’ll never understand what it is about some people that they feel compelled to enlighten others with negativity. Whatever happens, people are hurting here and anxious for positive news. There’s something wrong with someone who crashes the conversation to spread doom and gloom in the guise of “realism.”

martinsaab
Member
5 years 20 days ago

Great plan. Might really work out as best solution for all involved.
And in addition – if successful – it would show the public what the real Saab spirit is:
Move your mind – and think in a different way than the crowd / the usual approach when facing problems.

Audun
Member
5 years 20 days ago

+9

doktor21
Member
5 years 20 days ago
I think Saab as an independent brand has failed. Not much money, just a few models,…. And Saab don`t has time to create new models. People actually don’t buy a new saab. A friend, Saab owner for more than 20 years, just bought a Volvo. He isn’t sure that Saab will be alive in the next years. Many other will think the same way. Saab need customer confidence. This confidence will only come if Saab end the experiment as an independent brand. VM should talk to BMW about a fusion. BMW has the money to cover the losses in the… Read more »
Pedro
Member
5 years 20 days ago

I would agree with you if we were talking about this a year and a half ago. I actually said it to someone who at the time was working for GM Europe. But BMW does not want SAAB; the decision to move the next-generation (the model after the newly introduced redesign) 1-Series to the FWD MINI platform occupied the space between MINI and BMW where SAAB could (IMHO) happily exist.

xlx
Member
5 years 20 days ago

what advantage could earn BMW with buying Saab ? No new segment to cover, no special IP to implement, no significant marketshare to gain. Unfortunately.

Skoda is the lower/cheaper segment to VW’s and they watch very carefully not to cannibalise themselves.

Pedro
Member
5 years 20 days ago

The rationale some were thinking of back then (and even before the GM bankruptcy), was to offer a FWD-based range between MINI and BMW (there would be overlap but manageable given the 3 brands very different characteristics). A brand that could be BMW’s “green-luxury” brand given SAAB/Swedish culture towards environmentally-friendly aproaches to business. A way to share development costs with MINI. There was some value to unlock in this approach, but I think 1. GM wantedto shut down SAAB; 2. BMW decided it would cost them less to market those FWD models as BMWs.

Motoradd's Cat
Member
5 years 20 days ago
Um BMW Mini quality? I bought a new Mini Cooper in 2006 for my wife. Great fun when it was new but It fell apart after 2.5 years. Traded it in for a 2003 9-3 SE Turbo convertible and she (wife) loves it. I think a tie up would be a good move, but not with BMW or VAG. Outside of Sweden the UK is Saabs biggest market is the UK (I think it’s down to the scandinavian genes left behind from the Vikings), so a tie up with Jaguar Land Rover would be a good move for both companies.… Read more »
Belfast_Saab
Member
5 years 20 days ago

Tata could certainly finance this type of move – and there is some complimentarity between Saab and Jaguar to cover full range from faimly to top exec limo. But, Jag themselves are, like BMW, developing own-brnad lower range models for the future, so not sure Saab would fit in longer term…shame becauseI love Jags too. And Discoverys. Q.why are LR so poor reliability yet prestige/perceived quality so high? A. price, so long as it costs a firtune, we don’t care apparently, it’s all about showing off to neighbours here in UK, not very Swedish attitude. 🙂

OddJob
Member
5 years 19 days ago

Speaking of Tata. An old Saab friend are leaving them.

Pedro
Member
5 years 19 days ago

Wasn’t CPF the one wanting to concentrate everything GME (inlcuding 9-5 production) at Rüsselheim?

Belfast_Saab
Member
5 years 19 days ago

Saw that – not sure he was a friend of Saab in the end, during his watch the 9-5 project stalled and the engine programme slowed.

No 9
Member
5 years 19 days ago

My neighbour just traded her recent Mini Cooper for …a Fiat 500

UWb
Member
5 years 20 days ago
SAAB has losses on 6.9 billion SEK. Most experts (and I agree) says that SAAB needs a cash injection on at least 10 billion SEK, probably more, to survive and to develop the necessary product portfolio. Much is said about the Rover deal and the major losses BMW made (at least 3 billion Euro), but what many people forget or is not aware of is that the Land Rover brand (including Range Rover) was part of the original deal, sold of to Ford and Mini, which became an independent subsidiary of BMW. it is well known that BMW was reviewing… Read more »
jond
Member
5 years 20 days ago

OK, but what if just one supplier refuses to play ball and decides that legal recourse is the only realistic option? You’re back to square one.

phermansson
Member
5 years 20 days ago

FOR INFO: because of the unacceptable comments made from Tolstoy Syndrome, this person is now banned from SaabsUnited.

Allan B
Member
5 years 20 days ago
Pedro
Member
5 years 20 days ago

A question: will you also disallow the posting of links from Swedish Radio or from other media, such as the one TS posted above?

900 classic cab
Guest
5 years 20 days ago

Nice !

Marque
Member
5 years 19 days ago
I even started to consider I would stop visiting SU seeing all the pathological haters started to seize the site. Please stop it in order to keep it a true enthusiastic blog. It’s not only the situation for Saab is being balanced on a razor edge, evolving number of forum posters are crossing the line with expressing nothing but true hate and feud towards Saab. They are offensive and hurting forum regulars in their notions. They make a situation that is unworthy of Saab spirit and qualities, to say the least. Also it does even more harm to Saab’s cause!… Read more »
paddan
Member
5 years 19 days ago
Thank you TimR. Thinking about all the trolls of late, I believe they find it fun to get the Saab Community’s dander up while hiding behind anonymous names and say what they portray to be intellectual responses to issues. They finger wag and tell us we are crazy. Kind of ironic. There is no doubt in my mind – nor has there ever been – that Saab will continue as a premium European brand. Thank you, also, for continuing the thoughtful dialogue about this iconic brand that is too good to die. You all are doing a fantastic job here… Read more »
hans h
Member
5 years 19 days ago

Well written! I agree. 🙂

Audun
Member
5 years 19 days ago

I too. 🙂

No 9
Member
5 years 19 days ago

He did make me laugh!

Jake
Member
5 years 19 days ago

Thanks… Helps me breathe easier…

Allan B
Member
5 years 20 days ago

It’s getting ugly, and that’s just the trolling.

gpg41
Member
5 years 20 days ago
I agree the plan has merit and would take everyone’s cooperation. This would keep Saab’s survival within all of the entities that have a vested interest in Saab. The last 2 years has shown that any and all government agencys have no interest in helping Saab thru these trying timesas they continually place roadblocks in the way. Would it be legally possible for Saab to raise $1 Billion Euros from the Saab Community. Lets say that there is 1k dealers worldwide. If they provided 10% of the needed funds for future products, then that would only be $100k per dealer.… Read more »
Audun
Member
5 years 20 days ago

A good suggestion!

UWb
Member
5 years 19 days ago
I cannot agree with this idea. 1. A dealer is making some 3k$ per sold car. They would come up with the equal of > 30 sold cars in profit, without even knowing if the brand would survive… 2. Where would you find 900 000 persons willing to put in 1 000 $ each, with the only incentive to get the same deduction when buying a car in the future. This would most certainly be worth < 1000 $ since most people negotiate their purchase to get some goodies with the purchase (equipment, winter tyres,…). Secondly, I get the impression… Read more »
RS
Member
5 years 19 days ago

1. A dealer is making some 3k$ per sold car

That can’t be the case in the US? How can they discount a 9-5 by $10k just like that to make a sale?

Jake
Member
5 years 19 days ago

The price they purchase the cars from SCNA at must be lower than that…

RS
Member
5 years 19 days ago

Thanks Jake. I wanted someone to give a reaction.
Here’s a theory. The independent Saab shipped roughly 12.600 car to US during 2010-2011. If these where underpriced lets say by 3.000 USD that would pretty much explain why Saab got into this liquidity crisis in April just before the orders for the MY11.5 started pouring in.

Jake
Member
5 years 19 days ago

Well… That may be the case, but also remember that if the prices were any higher, no one would see them as a bargain, and therefore, with the lack of stability in the company, no one would buy them.

Damned if you do, damned if you don’t, I guess.

The dealers are the ones who buy the cars from SCNA, though. The dealers resell. SCNA gets its money at once, so if the dealers are drastically undercutting prices and not making money, it’s partially their fault…

RS
Member
5 years 19 days ago

My point exactly. Saabs shouldn’t be ‘a bargain’ but purchased because their the best car for the price (MSRP). That’s how they sell elsewhere. A USD39k Turbo4 doesn’t have to be discounted with such low volumes. It’s just the opposite.
When the company makes enough money it becomes stable = reliable. Which in turn sells more cars if their product is competitive -which Saabs definitely are.

Hope it doesn’t feel like a lecture 😉 It’s just my immense frustration talking…

Allan B
Member
5 years 20 days ago
This plan does sound reasonable, or something along those lines, but it would presumably need everyone to follow the same script. It is just so frustrating that just as the company was starting to regain momentum earlier this year, that was the moment was when one of the key players involved broke ranks and threw a spanner in the works, and look at the mess. I still have faith that somehow VM can find a way out if he can keep the brinkmanship going. Keep buying time. And if not, then perhaps some sort of collective buyout or reconstruction, but… Read more »
liftarn
Member
5 years 20 days ago

At http://www.svd.se/naringsliv/saab-nej-ekar-dystert-i-kina_6456392.svd we can read that Pang Da is still the main track and they are not very happy with Vänersborgs tingsrätt.
The union IF Metall also say they will hold off until after the weekend so it looks like Muller will have a few things to do in the next few days.

skwdenyer
Member
5 years 20 days ago
Re the Enforcement Officer, my read of the situation was that VM had ACCESS to the money to pay wages, but IF he put it into SAAB then he would HAVE to pay the Enforcement Agency first. Having ACCESS to the money is not the same as HAVING the money. Of course, it may be that VM was banking on the court saying ‘yes’ so that the money would then be available to pay bills whilst employees were paid by the Government. In that case, the bet failed. There was a rumour last week about new money from China –… Read more »
Red J
Member
5 years 20 days ago

Whatever it is, Kronofogden will ask the Banks once again about the money Saab has, and then act accordingly.

Sadim
Member
5 years 19 days ago

I am sure they will ask the banks, but they will also ask SAAB officials if they have failed to declare ALL current assets owned by SAAB Automobile AB. They are supposed to declare all assets, even such that might be in foreign accounts.

If, however, the money in question is in a SWAN account it’s a different story, but then on the other hand it is not available to pay SAAB Automobile AB salaries.

wfg
Member
5 years 20 days ago
Ladies! Gentlemen! Please stay calm and respectful, as our beloved car company deserves that we communicate with respect and kindness. Importantly, please let us keep the tolerance that everyone can express her/his thoughts as long as we don’t attack personally someone. Being not Swedish but European, I completely trust in the Swedish justice system so I don’t think we need to talk anybody into a dark cell or judge of persons here!! As a Saab driver we know on the greatness of driving an individualistic car. What makes me a bit nuts is the posts saying that nobody wants to… Read more »
Audun
Member
5 years 19 days ago

+96 (my first Saab) 🙂

900_S
Member
5 years 20 days ago

Hm. Not a bad idea…

Though I thought that’s why they wanted to go through the reorganization process, to make sure all parties behaved and waited, just backed by a legal contract with the government involved. I thought Victor (et al) had been communicating with everyone involved… If that’s the case, why go through the reorganization process through the government in the first place, if everyone was in agreement to behave and wait anyway? Was the government supposed to be like the mediator then? I wonder what the options are to find a new one, if that’s all it was.

dbv
Member
5 years 20 days ago

Whatever happened to that European Bank that was going to give a short term loan that was talked about last week or the week before? In the last 6 months, there have been so many stories that have never come to fruition and now I think Saab is probably done. Sure hope that I am wrong though.

OddJob
Member
5 years 19 days ago

Plan D is absolutely brilliant. It is also a very Saabish way of tackling problems. It will of course be a lot of people to involve and they got to do it voluntarily, but I believe it could be done.

StateofNine
Member
5 years 19 days ago

Good plan D I think! I don’t understand what the Courts have to lose by approving the reconstruction plan, but why not put out Plan D for the parties to start signing now. It might be good supporting data to submit with the appeal papers.

I suggest we put the plan out there via Google Docs (www.docs.google.com) and let the parties start to fax or email them in to SU.

saabman
Member
5 years 19 days ago
I think that Plan D, in theory, is a very good one. But, given the fact that various parties have already initiated processes to get paid–more the suppliers than the unions, it seems unlikely that everyone would be on board. That was the reason for the court protection. It puts everyone in the same place while agreements are negotiated. Obviously, it’s worth a try, however. But I think there would have to be a written agreement signed by all parties, for a certain predetermined period of time. The companies that are owed 150 million Euros can’t wait forever, obviously. I… Read more »
mnztr
Member
5 years 19 days ago

I think it would not be fair to ask CELPA to take shares, what would be fair is to securitize the debt into convertible warrants that pay a low interest. That way, the companies that are owed money can remove the debt from their aged receivable and many of them will then also be able to borrow money again. The warrants will be convertable to stock at a pre-agreed price.

quieteye
Member
5 years 19 days ago

It may be too late at this point, but to help Save Saab…

Any buyer of a new Saab could be hosted by a vintage owner for a weekend (or as scheduled) of Saab road fun, stories, meals, and goodness to be had from continuing a great automotive legacy. Members of this site are the enthusiasts once counted on to convey the passion for the Brand during GM’s Saab Wind-Down. Is it too late to show it now?

How many here would be willing to host a new buyer in a Live Legacy Saab Friends Program?

mnztr
Member
5 years 19 days ago

I think what Victor has said is there is money that is READY to come in to the tune of 240M euros… now NO investment company is going to infuse money into a company where there is a baliff waiting at the door. What Victor has said is seems to match what is being said by the baliff…i.e that SAAB cannot pay the employees because it is NOT up to SAAB who gets paid. So this guy has his knickers in a know over nothing.

Turbine
Member
5 years 19 days ago

The Local.se quoting appeal for protection from bankrupcy TODAY – quoting VM as china monies by November – sorry too late – bridge loaning enough for wages and suppliers just not going to happen if this is the case …very sad – I do hope this is not the case ???? Big cash rich rabbit out the hat required !

Jake
Member
5 years 19 days ago

I wouldn’t trust any of the Swedish news sites, Turbine… They make their profit by spreading negativity.

Jason Freeman
Member
5 years 19 days ago
Face it guys, Saab is dead. I’m not saying that to be happy about it, it’s a real shame for a company that has such history and such a loyal workforce – Having been made redundant once myself I know how the employees must be feeling. But when you look at the facts, Saab needs far more money than even the Chinese have got in order to turn into a profitable company – it’s just not going to happen. I ordered a Saab in March but had to give up on it in June after the 7 week delivery turned… Read more »
RS
Member
5 years 19 days ago

Did you notice the ovloV cost a bit more 😉

Troels, Denmark
Member
5 years 19 days ago

I woudn¨t exchange my 2004 9-3 for at brand new Volvo. Volvos design are trendy and without real character.

Jake
Member
5 years 19 days ago

Jason, take it from Troels the designer! 😀

zippy
Member
5 years 19 days ago

Anyone heard of the term ‘flogging a dead horse’? Unfortunately there is only one possible scenario now.

zippy
Member
5 years 19 days ago

Does anyone know why my postings never appear as I post them? I posted a comment at 18:47 and it appeared above a comment posted at 12:53?

Ill say this, VM is gonna make some money out of this. I feel sorry for everyone at Saab, its employees, its dealers and current owners. I hope everything turns out well for Swade.

Pedro
Member
5 years 19 days ago

I noticed that too… :-/

Red J
Member
5 years 19 days ago

The problem with Pedro’s posting is that it is a reply to another posting I’ve deleted, and Pedro knows why.

It seems like the system puts those orphan replies always at the end.

Jake
Member
5 years 19 days ago

Zippy, I’ve watched your enthusiasm for the company turn into pure dirt. It saddens me to think that you may be thinking that Saab is dead. Keep your chin up, and go for a drive in your Saab. It’ll be fine. I can’t drive yet, so I don’t have that solace. Just be happy that YOU do.

maurice.ierfino
Member
5 years 19 days ago

Having owned many saabs since the 1980s. I never really worried about warranty support etc…as that was never an issue in the past. My concern today, apart from seeing my beloved brand being battered in the media and all, is what type of warranty support will exist if the the brand goes….(well you know, can`t even bring myself to mention the word !!). I live in Canada and own a 2008 9-5 aero with 35,000km that is technically still under warranty until 2013. Does anyone have any thoughts regarding this issue ?

saabman
Member
5 years 19 days ago

Maurice.ierfino, Your warranty is guaranteed by GM, as it was issued under them. GM has promised to honor its warranties. I don’t think you have to worry at all. The warranty question (at least in North America) is regarding Saabs manufactured in 2010 and later. There are some fantastic deals on new 2011 Saabs out there right now (no doubt due to the troubles), but the warranty issue hangs over those potential sales. I’d take advantage myself if I felt it were safe.

maurice.ierfino
Member
5 years 19 days ago

Thanks for the info SaabMan. It`s like Nov.-Dec. 2009 revisited, I can`t take the stress all over again !!!
I grew up with the brand and have onwed 6 in the last 25 yrs. That`s a lot of history. long live SAAB !!

saabman
Member
5 years 19 days ago
To back track a little, just today I’ve learned of “new” GM not honoring “old” GM warranties in some cases, particularly with regard to the Chevy Impala. That seems more like a recall issue that they don’t want to honor, but they are making the case that “new” GM is a different company than “old” GM and thus are not bound by “old” GM’s commitments. But I think they still honor the old warranties if you take a very narrow reading of them. You could consider getting an extended warranty while the original is in effect–it’s much cheaper that way.… Read more »
maurice.ierfino
Member
5 years 19 days ago

That`s a good point SaabMan. I have very little mileage on it and would like to keep another couple of yrs before selling it. By then my hope is to be driving the brand new 9-3 !! Maybe purchasing an extended warranty would be the way to go. BTW, I live in Montreal just north of you. Got love those Bruins !!!

Andrew-V
Member
5 years 19 days ago

Sirs, Seems we have become communists. Tolstoy was right partly. We interpret any information event all as one i.e. with great trust to VM and intolerantly to his opposers. Only windowed estimate of all opinions may bring truth. Although Tolstoy was quite rude.
But course of events shows VM words sometimes mismatch facts and at crucial moments he was giving piece of that to us what we wished to hear. But usually this didn’t have continuation further yet. I don’t know veritable causes of it but that you see through rose-coloured spectacles it’s fact.

Jake
Member
5 years 19 days ago

My judgements are from what I’ve seen VM do for McGregor Fashion Group, Spyker, and more. He screwed up a couple times. It’s rude to say that we are communists, even if done so “politely.” I really am offended by that. Take a look at the press conferences in the past couple of days: VM was quite frank, hard, and straight-up. He’s a good businessman, and a damn good person.

KarlR
Member
5 years 19 days ago

I just came back after a drive in my SAAB 9-3 SC Vector Fully loaded and I must say I Love my car!! And If Saab dies I will keep it for a long time!!

spacy
Guest
5 years 19 days ago

.
PLAN D:

I have suggested something similar previously, but there are 800 odd suppliers & as I understand it, Saab have spent several months, trying to get the exact same thing from them, without success.

VM is certainly a charismatic person, but sometimes I also, see a slight arrogance in him….Like, he is right & that’s it… Sometimes this works badly, when paired with another strong personality.
One thing is certain, some ‘people’ will e doing alot of learning out of this situation, that’s for sure…

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