Mr. Borg, what are you telling us???

Reading through the many articles and short notices Ttela.se has published about the NO to the reconstruction process, this one, an interview with the Swedish finance Minister Mr. Anders Borg, has a very interesting passage. Please tell me that this is only a bad Google-translation.

– Will there be layoffs, there will be resources from society and the state to provide support and assistance. We have security and wage guarantees, we have considerable resources in the Employment Service if needed. But the legal process must be completed and then we will see who should lead and own the company.

– Blir det uppsägningar så kommer det att finnas resurser från samhällets och statens sida för att ge stöd och hjälp. Vi har trygghetssystem och lönegaranti, vi har betydande resurser i Arbetsförmedlingen om det skulle behövas. Men den rättsliga processen måste slutföras och sedan får vi se vem som ska leda och äga bolaget.

The rest is also quite strange to my eyes. But maybe its only because I must relay to Google.:-(

The sentence marked in bold is the one that I think is the most controversial. I don’t think there is somebody in the dark waiting for Saab bankruptcy, not even Chinese partners, but I think this sentence is too ambiguous, and there are different ways to express what he means in a less ambiguous way.

zippy
Member
5 years 17 days ago

I dont trust governments anywhere. He’s probably got a windmill company in mind.

Audun
Member
5 years 17 days ago

I agree with you. It looks like they are thinking of another industy when Saab is dead. Is the decision of today independent?

Patrik B
Member
5 years 17 days ago

Well, he could refer to the fact that the Swedish government would become owner to the spare part company!?

Edis
Member
5 years 17 days ago

Seems like he talks about what will happen to the people at Saab in case they lose their jobs, help to find a new job and such things.

The government will not become owners of Saab or any of its companies. The loan guarantee only means that the Swedish government have to pay back on Saabs loans if the assets in the company after a bankrupcy doesn’t cover those loans.

Doubtful that Borg has windmill companies in mind, he doesn’t like things that require government subsidies, and windmills are one such thing.

DUTCH900C
Member
5 years 17 days ago

I couldn’t find a translation tool, but it seams that Maud Olofsson, yes, “that person”, is surprised what te court has decided.
If you cab find a translation tool, you can translate:
http://www.iex.nl/Nieuws/ANP_ANP-080911-267/Zweedse-minister-verrast-door-Saab-besluit.aspx

Motoradd's Cat
Member
5 years 17 days ago

Where there is Maud, there is a windmill!

Suprised? I don’t think so. Delighted more like

Greg Abbott
Member
5 years 17 days ago

Is there an organized effort to pry Saab out of Victor Muller’s hands? The Finance Minister’s comments may be illuminating in that regard.

900 classic cab
Guest
5 years 17 days ago

It really seems that way, and for while.

jond
Member
5 years 17 days ago
As I read the translation he seems to be saying that something may well emerge from the prospective bankruptcy that will permit some sort of production to continue under a new regime and that SweGov stands by to support the workers in line with Swedish practice and the EIB, but not the suppliers. If that is correct it seems entirely reasonable to me. IMHO the Court and SweGov have been quite correct not to support the present management, who have failed completely. Best that this is done quickly and cleanly, that the appeal fails, that they are driven out and… Read more »
900 classic cab
Guest
5 years 17 days ago

Not even in America this would happen.

zippy
Member
5 years 17 days ago

dave, thats exactly what happened to GM in the USA.

900 classic cab
Guest
5 years 17 days ago

If it was exactly like that, I wouldn’t mind so much 🙂 The prolem is that at this point I can’t imagine the Swedish government saving SAAB, like the US did with GM.

Norwegian Blue
Member
5 years 17 days ago

GM isn’t “saved” yet, either. Its share price has been slipping and is down about 35% from last November. By comparison the Dow Jones Industrial Avg. is roughly flat. Many underlying problems were glossed over in the bailout.

zippy
Member
5 years 17 days ago

Interesting stuff. I still say Saab needs way more money than the Chinese are bringing to the table to survive.

It woukd be interesting what our friend CJ has to say in the matter.

GM was saved by the US government from liquidation, could Saab be saved by the Swedish Government.

Somebody. Please save Saab!! 🙂

Belfast_Saab
Member
5 years 17 days ago
Sadly not a chance – clearly a strong anti-interventionist governement. In strictly economic terms I’d normally agree and find myself fighting that attitude on this one case because of my passion for Saab. If this were an IT company or steel works I wouldn’t expect government aid…… Yet, acrossthe world other governments have bailed them all out – in the USA, France and Germany, (not the UK, although they have been very helpful to Honda and Nissan) so why not Sweden? The Chinese money is insufficient, too slow and now too late. Bancruptcy may open other avenues or allow VM’s… Read more »
Audun
Member
5 years 17 days ago
Saabim
Member
5 years 17 days ago

1* :))) I tell the same. Swedish economy is …..

jond
Member
5 years 17 days ago

Well, to an extent it depends on who is out there with what plans. All this coming and going over the summer with financiers that got everyone excited and believing in ‘The Deal’ probably included many who had no intention of throwing good money after bad to VM and crew, but wanted to analyze the situation with a view to proposing something to other clients after the inevitable bankruptcy. They may now emerge from the woodwork. Let’s hope so!

Eleven
Member
5 years 17 days ago

Belfast_Saab I’ve long since thought a company such as Apple could step in, after all, with the onset of onboard technology, what better platform could Apple have than SAAB – It’s a perfect match!

I can easily imagine a SAAB dash that allowed for an iPad to slot into place and instantly become a combined Sat Nav, Comms and Entertainment Centre.

Apple have the spare cash with the right ethos for SAAB, not going to happen, but a lovely dream.

Belfast_Saab
Member
5 years 16 days ago

Nice idea Eleven – actually wonder if Apple’s future is so secure now their mojo meastro is leaving? And of course Saab has opted for Android with IQ-on ratherthan Apple…..so propbably burnt that bridge 😉 I’d settle for a wealthy Middle Eastern magnate – I think there is some minor shareholder from UAE/Quatar involved in Swan already?

ivo 71
Member
5 years 16 days ago

Mubadala. And not all that minor, something like 17% I believe.

Ivo

Iiari
Member
5 years 17 days ago
If this has all been hinging on just the 250 million from the Chinese, then the amounts in play really, clearly are insufficient, and the court decision in this case is sadly right. We’ve been lead on for a while now about THE DEAL and other interested parties looking at Saab without any details… Well, if this was actually true and not just hot air, then now is the time to be brutally honest and open about what negotiations have and haven’t been in play. Two observations from the US: – You can’t compare this to the GM situation. Within… Read more »
GerritN
Member
5 years 17 days ago

“Where did the initial business plan go wrong? ”

imho:
1) not selling enough cars
2) VA not allowed to invest because of EIB stupidity

Patrik B
Member
5 years 17 days ago

And 1 billion SEK from VA would have made the factory run for another 2 months? Then the stop would have been in May not in March…

I am sorry but the company is bleeding huge amount of money.

I do want Saab to succeed but with the current burn rate that will not happen without serious (somebody said 10 billion SEK) cash injection.

Iiari
Member
5 years 17 days ago
And that’s something of a snarky reply. Let’s break it down… 1) Not selling enough cars: Their business plan assumed a return to break even or profitable sales in less than 1 year? By a company that didn’t have its factory started yet and no PR or marketing in place? Really? 2) VA investment: As mentioned by Partrik, what would that have bought? A month? Two? Three? What I mean about transparency is exactly why did they burn through money so fast? Was the plan undercapitalized from the beginning (i.e. Saab never had a shot… Example: Did that 80,000 break… Read more »
GerritN
Member
5 years 17 days ago
It’s not only the direct investment that VA was planning to make that would have been important, but also the other investors that would have come with him through his organization. I do think, though, that selling enough cars is more important. The last year has shown that the existing markets are not sufficient for Saab to reach a break even point. Regaining the same market presence as in profitable times will need a couple of years to shed the bad brand image. The only way to survive those meager years is by opening new markets. The Russian market could… Read more »
ivo 71
Member
5 years 17 days ago

Well, an investment such as VA intended to make would in itself not be enough to keep the factory functioning for long. But what it would have done is get the production going, making those 11.000 cars that are in back order and get the cash flow moving again. 10.000 cars sold would generate an income of somewhere between 200 and 300 million euro’s, depending on how much Saab makes on a sold car.

Ivo

ivo 71
Member
5 years 17 days ago
…and then we will see who should lead and own the company. . Apparently. mr. Borg is quite sure that the company will continue under new owner- and leadership. Normally, when a business goes bankrupt, it gets cut up into various asset lots which are then sold off to the highest bidder, generally at rock bottom prices. It would seem, judging by his words, that mr. Borg already knows that this will not be the case with Saab and that the company will continue as a whole. Which, of course, would remove the slight problem of Sweden having to repay… Read more »
Pedro
Member
5 years 17 days ago

The wording is somewhat intriguing 😉

Khrisdk
Member
5 years 17 days ago

Very 😉

GerritN
Member
5 years 17 days ago

Sorry Ivo, but this goes against everything that the Swedish government has been saying and implying over the last 6 months. The only conclusion I could draw is that they prefer to see Saab disappear, another victory for their service based economy visionaries.
Have things changed to make the Swedish government now wanting to Saab to continue as it is?

Khrisdk
Member
5 years 17 days ago

Yes.
But not as it is.
With a much better financing.

Pedro
Member
5 years 17 days ago

The really rough aspect of it is that with each additional day that this BS goes on more money is needed… And now, referring to liari’s (excellent) posts above, it may not be a matter of 1 year before they make any kind of money anymore, it may be 2 or 3 or 5 as, being totally frank, I don’t think we can really rely on Mr Muller’s assertion that the NG 9-3 is on track to a 2013 launch…

Still, the wording is intriguing 😉

GerritN
Member
5 years 17 days ago

What financing?
Why would investors suddenly invest in Saab after bankruptcy instead of before?

ivo 71
Member
5 years 17 days ago

Well, I can think of at least one potential investor with more than enough funds who has a lot of pull with the Swedish government, might be interested in that construction since he already owns the rights to the Saab name, can keep Saab Swedish and should be quite able to pay off GM’s prefs if GM throws the IP rights into the deal. An extra plus (or minus, that depends) point may be that they already owned Saab before. Care to guess who I’m talking about?

Ivo

Pedro
Member
5 years 17 days ago

@ ivo – the Wallenbergs? But haven’t they repeatedly stated over the last 10 years or so, that they do not want to go back into car manufacturing? The only way they’d do it would be to gain something else from Borg & Co… Correct? 😉

GerritN
Member
5 years 17 days ago

Ivo, if your conspiracy theory is correct, i.e. SwedGov and EIB steering Saab towards bankruptcy, then that would be enough for me to never buy a Saab from the surviving new company. I’m sure that also the stock exchange and the (small) investors would have some nasty questions for the Swedish government. Let’s hope that you are incorrect.

ivo 71
Member
5 years 16 days ago
Actually, I hope so, too, sort of, I’m not at all a fan of shady business practices. On the other hand, if the survival of Saab hinges on it then the Marquess of Queensberry rules no longer apply and the gloves are off. I also simply cannot rule out that there could well be a group of Swedes who don’t like the idea of a profoundly Swedish business like Saab winding up on the scrap heap or, worse even, in China. Swedes can be pretty chauvinistic, you know. I know, having worked for and with them for years. And as… Read more »
ivo 71
Member
5 years 17 days ago

Well, Gerrit, you have never heard about politicians saying one thing and arranging another? If, for instance, there were informal discussions between the government and, say, the Wallenbergs about saving Saab and getting it back into Swedish hands for as little money as possible, do you think that the government or the potential investors would advertise the -probably quite devious- ways and means this could be achieved?

But it is a nice conspiracy theory, don’t you think?

😉

Ivo

SaabNut93
Member
5 years 17 days ago

RED you got lost in context.

What Borg is referring to is the system who protect the employees in Sweden under these kind of circumstances where their employer goes bankrupt or in to reconstruction. The employees will get their pay and there will be implemented activities to help employees get a new job. These activities can be of different character including some kind of education.

This is not accessible for SAAB nor any other company

Troels, Denmark
Member
5 years 17 days ago

I off-course don´t know what Mr. Borg is insinuating. But I am afraid that he is referring to Volvo. Which – in my opinion – will be nothing but death in another dress for Saab … – just a thought…

SaabNut93
Member
5 years 17 days ago

Troels!

I believe you do know if you think about it – it is the Swedish equivalent to “Lønmodtagernes Garantifond” as well as “en særlig indsats overfor ledige” (special activities towards unemployed) – nothing to do with SAAB Volvo or any other company.

The Swedish Government has no intention of supporting SAAB financially beyond providing financial security for the EIB loan.

Troels, Denmark
Member
5 years 17 days ago

Yes, I understand what you are saying – but I was referring to the “mystical” sentence; “…and then we will see who should lead and own the company” The Swedish Government – or some persons related to it – have earlier claimed it as a good solution if Volvo were buying Saab – which they (Volvo) surely will consider if Saab goes bankrupt…

SaabNut93
Member
5 years 17 days ago

OK – Granted I was a bit to fast but look at this link pointed out by klypp below. Borg is rightfully referring to the soon to come bankruptcy of SAAB – by which new owners will come.

hilmar
Member
5 years 17 days ago

The (mystic) Deal ? Who will be the winner ?

katar1na
Member
5 years 17 days ago
Oh my God – this is painful. I am embaressed by the comments here. “Welcome to Sweden!” is unfortunately what I have to write. Please do not for a second judge us all by this comment from Mr. Finance (Malfunctioning Cy-)Borg. There are still some intelligent ones left since the emigration to America. hilmar asked “Who will be the winner?” Maybe Mauds windmill-company? Hehe… Seriously: a bancrupcy in Sweden does not mean that there are any losses regarding reputation. Its not important in our culture, so do not think about that. Economically there are usually all to gain. But I… Read more »
rune
Member
5 years 17 days ago

Did any of the journalists pick up on VM’s accusations in the press conference yesterday? He went very far in suggesting dirty play vis-a-vis Antonov…

klypp
Member
5 years 17 days ago
Rolf Åbjörnsson, who led the reconstruction in 2009, said this on SVT this morning: Jag vill ju se en rekonstruktion av Saab, sa Rolf Åbjörnsson. Men det får man göra genom konkurs, den här formen av rekonstruktion kommer inte att leda nån vart. Konkurs gör ju att man bryter Kina-Ryssland spåret och får in en ordentlig ledning och är öppen mot marknaden i hela världen för ett kreativt tänkande. Rekonstruktionen som den ser ut nu är bara ett fördröjt lidande. Det finns ett intresse ute i den seriösa västvärrlden för att ta hand om det här, men man är utestängd… Read more »
Troels, Denmark
Member
5 years 17 days ago

I see you point. But if this is the case, one question pops up: Why didn´t those forces try to join the game in late 2009 ???

klypp
Member
5 years 17 days ago

Maybe there is other ways “to deal with this” than keeping the SAAB brand?

Troels, Denmark
Member
5 years 17 days ago

Maybe – but that would not be good – imo.
Especially not if Volvo buys the facilities…

SaabNut93
Member
5 years 16 days ago

Saw the debate in full. This guy Rolf Åbjörnsson is very interesting – he definitely has some well founded points. Even though he handled the 2009 reconstruction under GM – he discredit it – and claims that a reconstruction can only be done through bankruptcy.

His view on the former and current owners gives room for afterthought. He surly knows how to read Chinese business behavior.

He has given me the clearest business view on SAAB for a long time.

hilmar
Member
5 years 17 days ago
My fairy tale: Once in Septemper 2011 Mr. Anders Borg took some money out of the pocket of the EIB and this large European bank becomes (partly) the owner of the small car maker Saab who was suffering from misunderstandings leading to bankruptcy. But there was this EIB angel who wanted to do something good because in the past there was some misbehavior. And finally the SweGov decided to help in this situation as well, also for the mood among their voters. And so the suffering little car maker Saab got the helping hands to survive, was able to produce… Read more »
sonett71
Member
5 years 17 days ago

The swedish government has screw up 100 percent with Saab and industrial policy.

Anders_Sweden
Member
5 years 16 days ago
– Blir det uppsägningar så kommer det att finnas resurser från samhällets och statens sida för att ge stöd och hjälp. Vi har trygghetssystem och lönegaranti, vi har betydande resurser i Arbetsförmedlingen om det skulle behövas. Men den rättsliga processen måste slutföras och sedan får vi se vem som ska leda och äga bolaget. This would in my translation be something like this: – If there will be lay-offs, society and government will have resources to give support and help. We have social security [read: unemployment benefits and welfare] and wage guarantee [wages are paid by government during a bankrupcy],… Read more »
SaabNut93
Member
5 years 16 days ago

Thank you Anders!

To the point!

900SEB
Member
5 years 16 days ago
I’ve been studying Swedish and the Swedish society for quite a while. Let me tell you guys something; he’s saying basically nothing that we didn’t already know. Swedes (generally speaking) don’t open their mouth to let words come out and end up in trouble. And usually they don’t lie. What Borg is saying is: 1- The government has money to back the workers up. In other words: “Should you lose your jobs, you won’t starve.” ”Men den rättsliga processen måste slutföras och sedan får vi se vem som ska leda och äga bolaget.” 2- We won’t hurry things up. We,… Read more »
SaabNut93
Member
5 years 16 days ago

900SEB – Thank you!

GerritN
Member
5 years 16 days ago

“We expect somebody to come and save the day, buy the company from Müller and take the hot potatoe out of our hands.”

If the “We expect” is translated correctly then………
well, that’s a statement to get the stupid theory machine churning, whether you like it or not.

900SEB
Member
5 years 16 days ago
Well, the “we expect” part was my view. Here’s the exact translation: ”Men den rättsliga processen måste slutföras och sedan får vi se vem som ska leda och äga bolaget.” “But the legal process must be completed and then we will see who will lead and own the company.” My view on what Borg was referring to: ALT 1: Müller gets money somehow and he continues with his business plans. ALT 2: Another actor comes up and he buys the company. ALT 3: The company goes bankrupt, it is converted into money to pay the workers and all the debts.… Read more »
Anders_Sweden
Member
5 years 16 days ago
One could perhaps add that unemployment benefits in Sweden, probably to the surprise of many, are very low compared to other Western European countries. There is also very hard conditions for unemployed in other ways. They are for example to accept job offers anywhere in Sweden in order not to risk to lose their unemployment benefits. Before tax I guess that car worker in Sweden earn about SEK 30,000 a month (about $ 4,500 or € 3,300), which means a little over SEK 20,000 a month after tax. If unemployed, the car worker will have less than half of that.… Read more »
jackfrost
Member
5 years 16 days ago
Unfortunately…….It’s all over this is so messed up right now I don’t know how anyone can pick up the pieces and move on from here unless someone has billions to invest in SAAB and even then. This whole thing was botched from the beginning, SAAB never had sufficient financial support once they left GM, never really had a chance always hoping for loans, sales, further financing to come short-term, mid-term, long -term most of it never came and never will kind of sad 🙁 The current economic landscape doesn’t help either..hopefully parts will be a plenty for the folks that… Read more »
900SEB
Member
5 years 16 days ago

@jackfrost: I couldn’t agree more with you. To save Saab we need deeper pockets than before.

rune
Member
5 years 16 days ago

…and that wasn’t the case back in March when all of this started. Had EIB acted rationally, then Saab would be moving right now.

Sales were pointing up at that time, and they had a fair shot at reaching break-even before having to resort to asking for further investments. Also keep in mind that they initiated talks with Chinese partners already October last year, so they must have planned for a safety net. (and make sure they’d reach the break-even point faster)

tmjr
Member
5 years 16 days ago

Where’s MarkoA ? He seemed to suggest that he was sitting on some positive inside info. What is it?

Cineza
Member
5 years 16 days ago

conspiracy theory:
Swedish government doesn’t want the SAAB brand associated with Russian and now Chinese ownership since Saab (Svenska Aeroplan Aktiebolag) is marketing the aircraft internationally…
so they will do (or not do!) everything for the company to go bankrupt so that the brand is saved..

wpDiscuz