What happens with bankruptcy?
September 6, 2011 in Archive
I have spoken with people at Metall and even though the Unions might demand a bankruptcy from Saab it does NOT mean that SAAB is in any way dead tomorrow!
What actually happens is that the unions deliver a piece of paper stating that they apply for the court to place Saab in bankruptcy because salaries have not been paid. What happens next is that the court needs to have talk with Saab, have to investigate what the state of Saab really is and if there is a way for Saab to pay the bills. This procedure takes anywhere from 5-15 working days.
If they would find that there is no way to actually pay they will take the decision to place Saab into bankruptcy, once this is done, that is the point of no return. BUT according to the Unions, if they were to get payed in the period of 5-15 days, they would withdraw their application and things would return to normal again.
The reason why the unions can proceed with this is that the only demand they have are the salaries and if they have been paid, then there is no reason to continue bankruptcy proceedings.
However if a bankruptcy is decided upon a couple of things needs to happen. First the governmental agency responsible for paying out a guarantee salary (statliga lönegaranting) needs to be contacted and put into motion. Looking at their current workload and how long it has taken in the past, we could be looking at 2-3 months before the first employees get paid this way. So even a bankruptcy means that salaries will not be paid quickly anyway!
TimR said on September 6, 2011
According to Ttela.se, the unions at Saab have decided to synchronize their efforts, so they have to wait till Thursday to start the bankruptcy procedure.
Henke said on September 6, 2011
Some News Papers brings up the positive side from employers as well. Article in Swedish DN and the SAAB guy states “give the company some more weeks to find money to the saleries”.
http://www.dn.se/ekonomi/vanta-en-vecka-eller-tva
dave said on September 6, 2011
9kCDGriffin said on September 6, 2011
+1
Tolstoy Syndrome said on September 6, 2011
The guarantee salary (statliga lönegarantin) is paid more or less immediately after the bankruptcy decision is taken by the district court. However, it is true that it takes about two to three weeks before the bankruptcy filing process is done. It was the same debate back in 2009 when SAAB went through a reorganization. Then the guarantee salary (statliga lönegarantin) was paid immediately after the reorganization was decided by the district court.
TimR said on September 6, 2011
Not the fact anymore… Several companies went bankrupt this summer with employees still waiting to get their money…
Peter, Sweden said on September 6, 2011
Does anyone know what happened to the big bucks from Endeavour Advisory Group?
9kCDGriffin said on September 6, 2011
it looks to me that there is a giant leak in their financial programme. as far as i know Saab received quite some money, over the last year-and-a-half. where has all that money gone to? would be interesting to investigate…
TurboLover said on September 6, 2011
Just a gut feeling or do you have anything substantial on this?
I want my, I want my, I want my 9-5 SC
9kCDGriffin said on September 6, 2011
it’s just a gut feeling.
of course i want Saab to continue, after i drove the new 9-5 in THN, last May, and saw the 9-5 SC and 9-4x on display. (even i can’t afford them…)
i think i have to start saving in order to buy ‘something French’ (i.e. a Xantia/C5) again, after my 9000′s have broken down (which i hope will take some time)
BoeBoe said on September 6, 2011
Saab losses 1,65 million every day so a couple of millions are spend very easily. So 25 million is only good for 2 weeks. All the money Saab received in the past is already spend on “running cost”.
RS said on September 6, 2011
9kCDGriffin, if you don’t like cars braking down you should stay away from ‘something French’ what ever happens
On-topic: ‘Saab losses 1,65 million every day’ I bet they could get a lot of door panels for that sum…
Wonder how many suppliers parts they where missing when production stopped?
TurboLover said on September 6, 2011
Could I sugest you try a Dame Edna from the years 2006-2010 ?
I drive a 2010 and it is a lot of great car for a really good prise
Gopher said on September 6, 2011
Could someone enlighten me here:
Exactly how much work has been going on at Saab? With production at a stand-still, surely not much? But with no work for the employees, they still get paid? Is this because they’re unionized?
Frankly it’s a bit ridiculous if that’s the case. VM is working feverishly hard to get money for people who aren’t even working? If that’s really the case, that’s just absurd and a complete waste of money.
Hans H said on September 6, 2011
It is only the production that is stopped, not R&D. And certainly not the management.
VM is trying to find money not only to pay employees, but also suppliers so that the production may start again. Because when production start, money will start pouring in the normal way.
Don’t demonize the unions here. They are doing the best they can.
ivo 71 said on September 6, 2011
VM is doing this to keep the factory ready for the re-start. If he lets the people go, he will not be able to resume production anytime soon because many key employees will have switched over to other employers. And there is one not far from Trolhättan that is hiring on a large scale.
To me, this just underscores VM’s dedication to Saab. He is putting all of his own invested capital on the line because he apparently really believes in a viable future for Saab. Any other ‘sane’ entrepreneur would have closed the gates at Saab long ago and sold the assets to anyone willing to pay. And make a nice profit in the process. As it is now, he stands to loose everything he has, and more. The man deserves wagonloads of kudos for his balls instead of all the excrement some people are throwing at him.
Ivo
TimR said on September 6, 2011
+1
Hans H said on September 6, 2011
+1
SteveW said on September 6, 2011
+1
Rein said on September 6, 2011
No need to play the “lets all feel pity for VM” card. What matters in the end is will Saab be prosperous or not. I am not talking about 1 or 2 years, I mean dozens and more into the furute. To me it seems like he takes one week at a time and thus really on a stand still.. What is left of Saab is the brand and any sane person understands it. I am a fan of them swedish cars too but come on, get it right or let it die..
Ralph said on September 6, 2011
That’s indeed an often overlooked strong argument; thank you for reminding everybody here.
TurboLover said on September 6, 2011
Well put! + 900
jouni72 said on September 6, 2011
+1
jouni72 said on September 6, 2011
I mean to Ivos comment.
Rein said on September 6, 2011
I am a proud owner or 2 Saabs but my next car will either be a Subaru an Opel Insignia or a Hyundai. Why is that? I mean come on, how long will it take for this nonsense to end. Everyone were full of hope, including me, when Saab was bought by VM and Spyker. Lets be frank now, he hasnt done anything for the brand which could be considered as a breakthrough. What, phoenix? What for, so that the company could go bankrupt. Im just tired of this – will we get some extra million bucks from somewhere to last for a few more weeks – thing.. Right now, other car companies are investing into technology and innovation, Saab is trying to find money, for more than a year now, not to go into bankrupt and to pay their already due bills. Ridiculous and just plain childish..
Wittendorff said on September 6, 2011
Well we expect to drive our 2006 9-3 until the new 9-3 arrives, but yesterday my wife, who not is a particular SAAB fan, suggested that we buy a brand new 2011 if the company closes. Because, as she said, we then will be able to drive a SAAB for the next 10 years or so.
ivo 71 said on September 6, 2011
Well, there is at least one breakthrough, a pretty significant one imho: Saab still exists and has a chance to survive and prosper. And, as far as I know, the R&D at Saab has been going on during the standstill of the assembly line. Technically, we have seen the emergence of the fastest as well as leanest diesels now on the market, a pretty revolutionary electro-hybrid proportional AWD drivetrain, a highly innovative infotainment system, there is a test fleet of full-electric Saabs on the road with the longest range so far, the 9-5 and 9-4X are on sale, the 9-5 SC is about to be launched, the NG 9-3 is nearing the production stages, a small Saab seems to be coming soon… I wouldn’t say that not much has been achieved since VM took over. On the contrary, rather. More has happened at Saab in the last 2 years than in the final 3 or 4 GM-years.
But if you have lost your faith, by all means go out there and buy yourself an Opel or a Hyundai. They will bring you from A to B as well, I’m sure. When Saab is back on its wheels, you can always come back. And change your nick…
Ivo
Rein said on September 6, 2011
I have to say Ivo I love your comments and the smooth way you deliver your message. The “small Saab” was actually on my to purchase list and had been for quite a while, alas, as you say I have lost my faith. Chances are slim to none that saab will prosper as you say. In the automotive industry, competition is huge and selection extensive. Opel Insignia is great to drive by the way. Not only Saab has the potential to provide the driver a great experience.
ivo 71 said on September 6, 2011
Yes, agreed, there are many cars out there that offer plenty of room and comfort and are even fun to drive. I myself wouldn’t really mind driving say, a BMW X5 or a nice Jag. But not many of them offer that special feeling that Saabs seem to, the emotion that causes so many people all over the world to keep faith, even in the face of apparently unavoidable disaster. Remember the convoy period in 2009? Things looked even bleaker then. The factory was already shut down and preparations were being carried out to dismantle the assembly lines. And what happened then? Right. So why not hang in there for a while longer? Miracles do happen sometimes, you know, especially with Saab
.
Yes, I will also give you that Saab is in pretty dire straits right now but I don’t think we should bury the brand before it has actually died. Even the labour unions apparently don’t think the situation is totally hopeless, otherwise why would they give VM the extra time to come up with the funds? If they did think that, they for sure would have requested bankruptcy on Friday because that would have been the fastest way for their members to receive unemployment benefits.
Like I said, just hang in there for a while longer. Let’s not mourn before we really have to.
Ivo
900_S said on September 7, 2011
I completely agree with Ivo. Not denying the trouble, nor a Victor Muller apologist, not denying there are other quality options out there (depending on your taste)–but the company hasn’t died yet. “Let’s not mourn before we really have to.” EXACTLY.
I don’t know whose “fault” it is why Saab is where it is. It’s terrible the workers haven’t been paid in awhile and things aren’t looking too bright with some of the news coming in, but I’ll be the first to admit I don’t know the whole story, nor can I see the big picture. If the company fails–so be it… But it’s not over yet.
I DO think people are being a little too critical of Victor… That’s my opinion, anyway.
I wish ALL the employees the best of luck.
cakewalker said on September 6, 2011
@Rein – I seem to remember the idea of a ‘small Saab’ in the mould of the old 92/93/96 being mooted in the early 90s. In the meantime GM pushed Saab into the ill-fitting mould of BMW competitor but seemed to overlook that each of its premium competitors had a small(ish) offering. The 3-series Compact has been around since 1993, the A3 since 1996, the A-Class since 1997, Volvo’s 400-series from 1986(!) and C30 since 2006; it’s astonishing that Saab didn’t get the investment it needed to develop a competitor. It appears that, if Saab do want a smaller car in their range, they’re having to start from scratch (finding a donor platform, at least), which they’ve only had 18 months to do. It seems a shame therefore that your patience has run out now.
‘Ridiculous and just plain childish.’ – so you’d rather they be like other manufacturers and didn’t pay their bills?
aki said on September 6, 2011
ivo71…you have made a great point. VM and his team are to be admired for all that they are doing and all the sh*** they are taking from some quarters of society and press.
Stopdeletingcomments said on September 6, 2011
Stop deleting comments!
TimR said on September 6, 2011
Not as long as you keep using this offending tone!!!
Hans H said on September 6, 2011
Thank You !
ivo 71 said on September 6, 2011
Too bad my well-polished, creatively composed brainchild of a response got thrown away with the bathwater as well
. But, well, life is tough and then you die.
Ivo
jouni72 said on September 6, 2011
Just during last hour SWAN share has risen from 0,58 eur to 0,80 eur. What is happening?