Car-buying advice needed…

Let’s help one of our regulars:

Hello all… 74stingray here with a request for some help. Now we all know that SaabsUnited is very non-biased when it comes to cars. We grade them all equally and without regard to brand loyalty 😉 OK, let’s set the stage shall we? My 21 year old son is looking to upgrade from his 2005 Chevy Cavalier to a newer car. Naturally I offered my impartial opinion as to what car he should be looking at. I suggested going to the Saab dealer and look around, check online for used Saabs and to test drive some Saabs. In all seriousness, I suggested Saab first, but also mentioned VW, Chevy, ect. Like most kids, he wants a loaded car on a basic budget…. As much as he wants a new car, it’s not feasible and buying used is the best option. Right now he is mulling around three car choices. I would like to call on my friends here, a true “consumer reports” kind of crowd to make the choice easier on him.

Subject #1 2010 Saab 9-3 2.0T, Moonroof, cold weather package, all wrapped in Carbon Grey with grey interior. It has less than 15,000 miles on the odometer at a cost of around $20k. Full factory warranty is in effect.

Subject #2 2008 Saab 9-3 AERO, loaded, Fusion Blue with parchment interior. 47,000 miles, very little time left on warranty, $20k

Subject #3 2010 Chevy Camaro, Blue, V6, moonroof and other desired options… less than 8,000 miles around $22k with balance of warranty.

This should be a fun thing and not get too scientific…

I’d go for subject #1, but that’s just me. Comments are open, have your say!

spacy
Guest
4 years 11 months ago

.
Only 1 comment:

$20,000 is hardly a basic budget…………

74StingSaab
Member
4 years 11 months ago

Well, very true but the kid has been working and saving money since he was 16…. never blow money of needless things.. But I know what you’re saying.

mike saunders
Member
4 years 11 months ago

None of the above.

If I was 21, with a budget of 22K, I’d look at an E46 M3 and not look back. I would baby the car during the week, puttering nicely to school and/or work, then thrash it on the weekends at driving schools and HPDE events.

…and I’d consider a Mustang GT over the Camaro. The 2008-2011 Mustangs handle extremely well…

michael
Member
4 years 11 months ago

How about Dodge Challenger then? For me it’s better then both!
Also there is Nissan 350Z!
Come on, he’s 21, let him play)))

Ken H
Member
4 years 11 months ago

None of the above.

I consider that as the most useless answer to any “which one of these” question one can imagine.
If someone has worked their way to a selection, what in heaven’s name is the purpose of answering “none of those”?
I can only imagine the drive is a need to get attention. Instead of being one of the masses actually trying to help, one is surely more visible acting like a smart buttock Mr “I know it all”…

Tomas TL1000R
Member
4 years 11 months ago

Subject #1 first choise subject #2 second choise. Another Saab is the third choise!

“there can be only one” as someone said in Star wars (I think).

The dude must drive the Saab right!

Visslaren
Member
4 years 11 months ago

I would have made the same choise right now, but if I was 21 again and with that budget I think I would have looked at some other cars to. 🙂

Oftopic: “there can be only one” isn’t from Starwars. It’s from the film Highlander.

Tomas TL1000R
Member
4 years 11 months ago
Right! Highlander it was. Sporty, European, turbo with enough power and not mainstream plus a great look. And a choise that says to your friend that I´m an individualist and smart. What´s wrong with a 9-3SS Vector or AERO. Maybe I´m to Saabish nowadays, When I was in that age the only car I want was Volvo but I´m from Sweden and didn´t have that kind of money (for a car). I have looked at the US prices of GSXR and they are really crazy, crazy low. I can totally understand why there are so much cars and stuff around… Read more »
Zizou
Member
4 years 11 months ago

Wasn’t that the Highlander???

WooDz
Member
4 years 11 months ago

I know what I was like driving at 21 and I’m glad at the time I only had an old Ford Capri with under 100hp.
However out of all of them ‘subject No1’ sounds the better option. It will also give greater room for tuning later when the insurance premium drops once he gets older.

74StingSaab
Member
4 years 11 months ago

Well, when I was 21, I had a Chevy Monza…with a V6…

MitchbSC
Member
4 years 11 months ago
I had a light blue Monza wagon with a 4 banger. I never grew up. I now have a light blue 9-5 wagon with a 4 banger. The 9-5 holds the corners better though. I vote subject #1. The 2.0T is about as much fun as the Aero and is cheaper on the gas. More warranty and less miles for about the same cost throws it to the 2.0T, especially if the Aero is the V6. The V6 in the 9-3 had some tech alerts out on it. My ’06 9-3 Aero had the cooling system pressure issues.
xlx
Member
4 years 11 months ago

ou yes Capri ! were you more like Bodie or Doyle ? 🙂

WooDz
Member
4 years 11 months ago

Can’t quite remember the professionals but I’ll take either.
I just know that at 21 I must have lost a few lives with my driving habits. I’m sure with more power under the hood of my car I may not still be here today, that’s for sure.

MarkoA
Member
4 years 11 months ago

#1 no doubt

Quixcube
Member
4 years 11 months ago

Camaro or Mustang. He’s 21! Drive the pony cars while you can and then pick something grown up and more refined much later. Besides, if he is like most kids he doesn’t want an aux cord sticking out from the front of the dash. New car designs (the 9-3 is not new, even a 2011 model) have tech packages that suit the iPhone generation a lot better. Better iPod integration might even prevent an accident. Let him wait for the next 9-3 (if there is one) and enjoy the flashy and fun car for now.

Piet-Hein S.
Member
4 years 11 months ago

i would settle for option #1. AEROs are often ‘beaten up/worn out mechanically’ by their former owners. a 2.0T will get you from A to B quick enough.

coupé’s are not practical, Chevrolet = GM, need i say more?
(i just bought a Nixxan 100NX to get me through the winter…)

Eagle63
Member
4 years 11 months ago

Back when I was 21 I was driving my very first Saab; a 1979 99 Turbo ! It was my dream come true….
When most of my friends were driving BMWs, VWs, Opels etc I wanted something totally different, and… I never regretted it.., and so began my lifelong passion for Saab. So I’d say go for a Saab, in the end it’s the right choice at any age..
And at 21, I’d surely go for the Aero !

welshwizard645
Member
4 years 11 months ago

Very exclusive Auction house near me has an Austin Metro…..forget everything else – GET A METRO

welshwizard645
Member
4 years 11 months ago

I see I can’t post a link – try again…
http://www.coys.co.uk/showrooms.php?itemID=921

74StingSaab
Member
4 years 11 months ago

Id have to beat the kid senseless for bringing that home.

Ronnie_Rad
Member
4 years 11 months ago

Being that I’m almost the same age as your son (I’m 20 yrs old), I know which one I would pick…
Surely the Camaro will wow the girls, and a mustang would probably wow ME, but honestly, since I can remember, I’ve always wanted an Aero…

So #2.

Of course insuring the thing would probably cost more than the actual car payment here in NJ…. 🙁

Tell him to live a little, get the Aero and show those Audis and Beemers who’s boss !

74StingSaab
Member
4 years 11 months ago

Ronnie… thanks for the input… actually, we’re neighbors since I’m in SEPA near Philly. His insurance will go up only $85 for a 6 month term over his Cavalier. I know it does not help my son when mom and dad both drive AERO… and we both bought our used.

Ronnie_Rad
Member
4 years 11 months ago

Ahh I see. Well in that circumstance, I wouldn’t get a 9-3 then 😀 . Does he like the last gen 9-5 Aero? They came wonderfully equipped!

and thats a very modest insurance increase!

Eventually when I graduate from Rutgers and sell my Jetta (the most god awful, problem ridden thing I have ever had the displeasure in owning. I will stay far away from the VAG cars for the foreseeable future.) I’ll be swinging for a 9-3 Aero myself.

I wish him and yourself good luck!
-Ronnie

xlx
Member
4 years 11 months ago

if the car condition is good, i would go for #2 because of the aero. anticipating will have the saab for 4-6 years, it will still be fine.

are you sure, that he can handle the 300+ hp in V6 Camaro ?

74StingSaab
Member
4 years 11 months ago

well, if he’s going to act like a jerk, the 250HP in the AERO will provide the same silliness as the Camaro. Honestly, I think the Camaro is UGLY as sin…

Quixcube
Member
4 years 11 months ago
It may be ugly, but its a newer design in every meaningful way. The 3.6 liter in the Camaro makes more power and gets better fuel economy than the old 2.8 turbo. In fact, it’s the same engine that the 9-4X badly needs and the Caddy got this year. The nicest thing about the Aero really is the XWD. If it snows where you are, the Camaro will probably be a pain to drive. Its a shame that he can’t wait to see if a Griffin arrives in the states. The much improved turbo 4 is a more palatable engine.… Read more »
mp2dtw
Member
4 years 11 months ago
I would suggest you consider a new Saab. Here in Detroit, both Glassman Saab and Suburban Saab are offering $10k off 2011 Saabs, someone near you probably is too. Yes your purchase price would be slightly higher, but financing would be cheaper (unless you simply have $20k end of story). Insurance would be higher, but maintenance would be free, repairs would be free and no one else will have mistreated it. I’ve never been a used car person, so I’m biased. But I don’t think the savings are as great as some seem to feel. When you put $10k (or… Read more »
74StingSaab
Member
4 years 11 months ago

I agree and we have looked at some new car deals as well.

ryanonsrc
Member
4 years 11 months ago

I agree. The deals more than compensate for any *potential* future warranty problems.

SVX92
Member
4 years 11 months ago

I cant fault him for looking at the Camaro, but rwd in our bad weather- ice snow and rain, not the best idea.

I’d say the aero, but you already a fusion blue- my favorite color- and no one wants to drive their parents’ car.

I think you should look to deal on a 2011, I think the $8-12,000 discounts are here to be had. He may be able to pick up an 11 at the price of the 10.

Perrine has a loaded 2010 red 9-3x, you could always upgrade and sell him yours!

74StingSaab
Member
4 years 11 months ago

Please…. I don’t need reminded about the Red 9-3X at Perrine… been drooling over it for a week now.

As far as “driving parents car”, he’s always begging to drive either one of our Saabs… I would say in this case… “it’s not your fathers Oldsmobile”

SVX92
Member
4 years 11 months ago

All the more reason to have him buy yours. You guys could make it a bonding experience to road trip to Jersey. Lol. It’s easy spending someone else’s money.

meg haviland
Member
4 years 11 months ago

Back when I was 21, I used public transportation, or my feet!!
Option # 1. R could always Maptun it later for more hp. Liking the idea of the car being under warranty. As to the Camaro, not a great winter car….
My 08 was used and it’s a great car. Then again so are yours!!

74StingSaab
Member
4 years 11 months ago

Meg, you met Rich, not really the wild and wooly kinda kid…. I think Camaro is a passing thrill for him.

zippy
Member
4 years 11 months ago

Door #1!!!!

ryanonsrc
Member
4 years 11 months ago

My vote is #1 … The 2.0T is a lovely engine. Lightweight, has impressive power, sounds great and excellent gas mileage.

100%Saab
Member
4 years 11 months ago

I agree.

Zizou
Member
4 years 11 months ago

+1

Aaron
Member
4 years 11 months ago

After having owned the 2.8, I find the 2.0 engine to sound anemic at best. Whenever I’m driving a loaner for service I lament the lack of umpfh 🙂

Khrisdk
Member
4 years 11 months ago

Hum..I do understand the feeling if you are driving a untuned one.

I would say that the smaller weight gives better handling, and with a little fiddling the 2.0T will outperform the 2.8T. Oh yes, and shed the XWD and put in a LSD ..less weight and better reaction

Aaron
Member
4 years 11 months ago

That’s always, always an unfair comparison and is made frequently around here. If you’re going to tune the 2.0T, why would you not also tune the 2.8T? VTuner will make 320HP and 350 ft. lbs. of torque. The 2.0T doesn’t come close to comparing when you treat them equally.

Khrisdk
Member
4 years 11 months ago
Yes, maybe The 2.0T will make as much or more. You have more possibilities with the 2.0T. But that wasn’t my real point. Lower the weight and the Hp doesn’t really matter. And the car is better balanced with a 4-banger, which I find more interesting But it’s all a matter of taste, not really an attack on the 2.8T And totally OT: I just tried a Porsche Panamera 4S yesterday. That car could maybe qualify as a suitable replacement for my 4-banger Saab. 4 Doors and a Hatch..fits the bill, and drives nicely 😉 Not sure if I can… Read more »
74StingSaab
Member
4 years 11 months ago

Thanks to all for playing along.. Keep the feedback coming!

I wanted to pose this question not only to help out my son, but to break some of the ice around SU. A little fun to take our minds off the situation.

theSandySaab
Member
4 years 11 months ago

#1, I’d take it when I was 21, i’d take it today, 20 years later…
…love the carbon grey face-lifted 9-3…

SAABBob
Member
4 years 11 months ago

I really don’t mean to sound like a jerk, but…
if my son had $20,000 to spend I’d steer him towards buying (potentially-appreciating) real estate instead of the depreciating asset (car). He could continue to commute in the Cavalier and watch his buddies throw their money away on rent.
Our North American priorities are slightly skewed, are they not?

74StingSaab
Member
4 years 11 months ago

Ever try and tell a 21 year old to buy property instead of a car???

Not to mention, $20k gets nothing around here… and I mean, nothing. I see your point… but most kids at 21 are simply not interested, no matter how much sense it makes.

Ronnie_Rad
Member
4 years 11 months ago

Bob,

Are you seriously insinuating that you think it’s smarter for a 21 year old kid (still a kid in my opinion) to purchase a home with his 5-years worth of savings? With what credit history? I can’t think of one bank that would loan to him the sheer amount of money for any metro-Philadelphia property.

Paying for a $20,000 car is a heck of alot cheaper than a ~$200,000+ home or condo.

Phoenix
Member
4 years 11 months ago

I think if StingSaab was looking for advice how to raise his child and how to teach him the value of money I think he have that capability himself or searched advice elsewhere. He asked for CAR buying advice.

I’d go for number one. Main reason, besides it is a great car, you know your son is travelling as safe as he can.

Sensonic
Member
4 years 11 months ago

If I’d have the freedom of choice, of course I’d pick either of those SAABs. Non-SAAB is outta question 😉

Trued
Member
4 years 11 months ago

Go for The safest car possible. 21 and probably accident prone….. go any Saab!
Put your dearest in The safest possible set of wheels.

Volvo man
Member
4 years 11 months ago

Then he should go for a Volvo S60, according to an investigation by Folksam.

Ronnie_Rad
Member
4 years 11 months ago

If any 21 year old wants to be seen in a Volvo i’d be concerned for their mental health, stability, and capacity. Ugly as sin.

It’s been statistically proven that 21yo males that buy Volvo’s do not get any attention from the female gender ! (I just made this up, but most statistics are made up anyway).

Happy trolling!

Trued
Member
4 years 11 months ago

So ovloV drivers will not get the chance of practicing reproduction then…..

Romac
Member
4 years 11 months ago

I thought only 90% of statistics were made up on the spot 😉

Volvo man
Member
4 years 11 months ago

Well, Saab is widely known as the brand for homosexual men so who would like to be seen in a Saab?

A woman at work tried to give away her old Saab 9-5 to her son, but he refused.

hans h
Member
4 years 11 months ago

Well, Volvo men are widely known for being homophobic, som who would like to be seen in an Volvo?

Tomas TL1000R
Member
4 years 11 months ago

Have you heard the Swedish uttryck “kuk förlängare” (Google trans and find out) It means if your dick is to small you have to have a car that compensate for your shortcomming. Proberbly right when we talk about the S60 but an AERO could be a great “kuk förlängare”.

By the way I like your sens of humor regarding, statistically proven,Thumbs up Ronnie!

RS
Member
4 years 11 months ago

A NG9-3 is safer than a S60. At least according to NCAP.

dickerin
Member
4 years 11 months ago
My teenage sons both had wrecks with our 740 Volvo (non-turbo) wagon. We repaired it with cheap junk yard parts. My first son was ticketed for going 100mph in the car. My second son had a slightly angled, head-on collision with a brand new Jeep Grand Cherokee. They wrote him a ticket and loaded the Jeep, which was leaking oil and coolant, on a flatbed truck . My son picked up the Volvo’s rubber bumper cover, put it in the back and drove home. After his 3rd accident in his senior year of high school we stopped repairing body damage.… Read more »
Saab_Lurker
Member
4 years 11 months ago

+1

If everyone in my high school class drove a Saab or Volvo there would be 5-10 more people at our reunions.

900_S
Member
4 years 11 months ago
I’m kind of surprised how few suggestions there were for ‘classic’ Saab. Though if you’re looking to spend around $20,000, an older used car looks pretty cheap. If you want to go new, or like-new (a few years old), the car I would get is the Mazdaspeed 3, which is advertised as around $24,000. Personally, I don’t care much about the current generation, so I would try to pick up a used one. Someone made a good point about avoiding the Aero because they tend to be abused by their owner, and I’m sure that advice goes double for these… Read more »
gustaf
Member
4 years 11 months ago

According to swedish bilprovningen the og9-5aero is overall in better shape after a few years on the road than the other og9-5s.

@74stingsaab
I’d pick #1 because of the 4cyl.

900_S
Member
4 years 11 months ago
This makes sense because I would think the people buying the old 9-5 Aeros weren’t going to race them or anything like that. Some ‘spirited driving’ now and then, but mostly a comfortable, delightful ride from point A to B. Viggens and SPGs/Aero (900) seem to be the Saabs to look out for in terms of being driven hard. Not saying they’re all driven into the ground, but to just be careful. I’m pointing out the obvious though 🙂 On that note, I DO see a lot of og9-3s and 9-5s, compared to other Saabs I mean. The old stuff… Read more »
Thylmuc
Member
4 years 11 months ago

Err, methink that doesn’t make much sense. Not knowing what your son wants, how could anyone give concrete advice? I suggest that your son comes up with a requirements list or something similar, including weighting.

Ken H
Member
4 years 11 months ago

I’d say #1, because of the warranty and also because the engine is just fine as it is, later it can be massaged up a stage or two.

Romac
Member
4 years 11 months ago

#1. But your lad is a lucky guy to be able to afford $20k at 21. In the UK he’d need about 25% of that budget to insure an Aero or similar, if he could actually get someone to quote. (But do 21yo’s take advice from the old man or his mates???)

AERO 11
Member
4 years 11 months ago

I would suggest getting a new 9-3. I live in Ohio. Saab is running some crazy deals on new cars. They had a 9-3 listed at $36,000 selling for $21,000. As a matter of fact, I bought the new 9-5 Aero XWD that stickered at $53,350. I got it for $34,800 out the door. Now the Camaro would be a pretty cool car for a 21 year old.

GreekSaabDriver
Member
4 years 11 months ago

I’m amazed your son is even asking for your opinion 😉 because mine (22 yo) went and bought his car behind my back. Anyway, I asked him what he’d vote for of the given options, and he said the Camaro, no question. He also said that in his (unsolicited) opinion, a 9-3 was an old person’s car…

The young today. They know nothing. Nothing.

74StingSaab
Member
4 years 11 months ago

Surprisingly enough, the kid does value my opinion. When it comes to cars, he knows I know a little bit about them given the fleet we currently have. Like I said, this was for fun and to let him know really any are a good choice in one way or another. The Carbon Grey 2.0 seems the be the well rounded of the trio… unless he decided to buy new.

Also… the 9-3 is no way a old person’s car….. and if it is.. the 9-5 is a car for the end of life people.

Romac
Member
4 years 11 months ago

Hey! steady on! I resemble that remark! 😀

spacy
Guest
4 years 11 months ago

74StingSaab

I am 60+ now, but [and this is OT] when I was 17, I bought a MG Magnette [pre-used of course].My dad had a Wolseley 4/44 [both from the BMC stable].
After many rows with my Dad, because the thing ate clutches like dinner,the last being a major one, he said to me ‘What’s the point arguing, with the age gap. & I said, ‘There’s no such thing’…..

Oh, how right he was, but good to see your’s is sensible…

spacy
Guest
4 years 11 months ago

.
GreekSaabDriver

Nice to see ageism is alive & well….!!

dickerin
Member
4 years 11 months ago

My sons didn’t want to drive my wife’s New Beetle because it wasn’t masculine enough. I can see it not being their favorite car, but they didn’t even want to be seen driving it…. I just don’t get it.

hipchecker
Member
4 years 11 months ago

For me, it’s about 3 things, especially for my son:

Safety, fuel economy, warranty.

The 2.0 is fast enough, no need for the V6. And option 1 get better MPG, is a newer car, plus has the longer warranty. Having said that, 20k is too much. You can get a new one for almost that. It’s the fall and dealers are clearing out inventory.

TGX4776
Member
4 years 11 months ago

22 yr old here

my choice would be option 4

2007 Saab 9-5 2.3T Sport Combi, manual, 75k miles located in Road Island $14,995 (talk em down a bit)

plus a track car of some sort like an E30 BMW, or 1st gen Miata.

however if like me and he is interested in drifting, a Nissan 240SX or Mazda RX7. The E30 and miata also make decent drift cars as well.

the rest of the cash he has left should be saved for any repairs and tires.

looking for new car
Member
4 years 11 months ago
Well, if you’re going that direction, I’m trading in my 2003 9-SW manual next week (really do want those updated safety features and alas, I couldn’t wait any longer – I already waited a year for the 2011+ 9-5SW) and it would be a lot cheaper than that. Of the options, I liked Option 2, although I hesitate about the idea of an Aero and a 21 year old re: safety and all. Love the blue color. But Option 1 makes the most sense. Maybe he should ask his insurance company if there is an appreciable difference b/n the Saabs… Read more »
looking for new car
Member
4 years 11 months ago

That was 9-5 SW…

CoolCombi
Member
4 years 11 months ago
I have a 25 y/o son that’s also looking for a new car in the summer of 2012. He won’t consider a Saab, even a certified one. Guess I failed as a father in that respect. Anyway, he has his eye on a new VW Jetta or Passat TDI Wagon. Prior to this he owned a Ford Focus ZX3. We’ve been out test driving many different makes and models since he’s not brand loyal like me. Honestly, the VW is a nice car! Simplistic on the inside and nicely appointed not to mention the great mileage.
zippy
Member
4 years 11 months ago

Das Boring.

CoolCombi
Member
4 years 11 months ago

As a Sport Combi driver I found that it drove every bit as nice as my 9-3 and has much more rear passenger leg room than my SC. My son has a lot of gear he has to haul around (being in the military) and is an avid bike rider. At almost 240 ft/lb of torque, das boring is really das exhilerating! Shocked the heck out of me!

74StingSaab
Member
4 years 11 months ago

🙂 Das funny

mike saunders
Member
4 years 11 months ago

The VW CC is a vastly better car than the base 9-3 in every respect, with the only hitch being the unknown reliability of the (wonderful) DSG transmission. ….but…you know VAG will be around in a couple of years. The Saab factory warranty might not mean much in a while.

RS
Member
4 years 11 months ago

You should try a Hirsched 9-3 TTiD 😉
240 ft/lb would feel pretty boring after that.

PS. Don’t listen to Mike. He’s becoming quite the VW and Bimmer salesman. But I admit if Saab doesn’t get its s**t together rather quickly many are forced to look at these German vehicles if they want a new car. Especially in Europe 🙁

mike saunders
Member
4 years 11 months ago
First off, the TTiD isn’t available in the US. Secondly, Hirsch is a joke. 🙂 (But it’s OUR joke, the only one in town. 😉 ) It barely brings the car up to the level of stock competition. The CC is every bit as safe as the Saab, has a better warranty, and vastly better aftermarket support so that if more power is wanted, it can be done for a fraction of the cost of Hir$ch. Ditto for the Passat TDI, which doesn’t have the same amenities as the CC, but it’s far less expensive. Seriously, there’s no logical reason… Read more »
RS
Member
4 years 11 months ago

WOW…
If you don’t have any logical reason to own/drive a Saab you should move on to VW. I’m serious.

BTW I know you can’t get a diesel Saab in NA. It’s a shame though. It beats a VW TID every time in performance (from the factory, with warranty), consumption and reliability.

mike saunders
Member
4 years 11 months ago
RS, I drove a 2011 9-3 2.0 — the same car as being considered by the original poster — back to back against a VW CC. Had the Saab for a full day, then brought it back to the rental company, and switched it out for a VW CC. Both were base models, driven on the same roads, in the same conditions. Members of my Saab-loving family (14 Saabs owned between the three of us, stretching back decades) also got to ride in it. The verdict was unanimous: the CC won hands down. The CC had more power, better shifting,… Read more »
peter
Member
4 years 11 months ago
Mike, you are spouting lies. The CC is not safer than the 9-3. Volkswagen no longer offers active head restraints (because of cost-cutting, as they offered them when the ’05 Jetta debuted), has sloppier high-speed handling, and far inferior braking. You said the CC has more power. Wrong, as the VAG 2.0T has 200hp and 207 lbft of torque. The Saab 9-3 Turbo4 has 210hp and 221 lbft of torque. As far as the CC’s seats, did you try them on a day warmer than 75 degrees? That nasty vinyl gets hot and stays hot, forcing its occupants to show… Read more »
mike saunders
Member
4 years 11 months ago
Peter, perhaps you should actually drive other cars instead of living inside a pretty Saab bubble. 😉 It’s not the numerical power on the sticker…it’s the power delivery. The DSG in the CC provides max torque across a wide range from 1,700 to 5,000 rpm. The Saab peaks at 2,500 rpm, then drops off from there. The peak torque value isn’t what determines how a car actually feels, it’s the area under the torque curve. That’s why the CC goes 0-60 a half second faster than the Saab, despite having less power on paper. As for the CC’s seats and… Read more »
mike saunders
Member
4 years 11 months ago

Oh, and about safety….

2011 Saab 9-5 and Volkswagen CC Named Top Safety Picks by IIHS

Read more: http://blogs.automotive.com/2011-saab-9-5-volkswagen-cc-named-top-safety-picks-iihs-29265.html#ixzz1aQHZhOpA

peter
Member
4 years 11 months ago
Mike, You ignore what you want to (quite a few facts), and I’ll ignore what I want to (VW’s infotainment budget). Unfortunately, my bubble is not Saab exclusive though I honestly wish that it could be. I’ve spent plenty of time with both the Ecotec 2.0T and the VAG 2.0T. I even had the pleasure of driving a DSG-equipped car for an entire year (the exceedingly rare 12 month lease). Saabs have never been defined by their peak torque. Look at Saab literature from the last 30 years. They have always gone out of their way to describe a torque… Read more »
mike saunders
Member
4 years 11 months ago
Peter, you’re choosing to ignore several things. 😉 The CC has lower HP/TQ numbers on paper, but again…it’s actually faster in real life. The CC reaches its max torque faster and holds it longer. That’s a fact. For those sad folks who compare cars on paper, instead of actually driving them, the Saab might look better. It’s just not, and I say this as a person who has driven Saabs for 25 years. I answered your comments about safety with a link. 😉 And yes, Saab introduced a very basic version of Bluetooth integration that was quickly surpassed by Ford,… Read more »
peter
Member
4 years 11 months ago
Mike, enough with the winking smileys. You lied. I never challenged your 0-60 observation. Anyone who has ever enjoyed a Saab knows that streetlight races are not going to turn out well. You claimed: “more power, better shifting, handled better, and a far better entertainment system — with integrated Bluetooth, BTW… — and had an amazing interior with the first seats in the VW product that match or beat the Saab 9-5 Aero seats for comfort and support. The Saab’s dated platform is showing its age… ” The CC isn’t more powerful. The CC doesn’t handle better. Road & Track… Read more »
mike saunders
Member
4 years 11 months ago
Peter, do you actually read what you post? 😉 I stand by what I said, and if you fail to understand the difference in a car’s stated power and the real-world application on the street, that’s a severe knowledge deficit you’ll have to fix. The Saab has marginally better output on paper, but feels slower on the road. If you do most of your driving in the pages of magazines, then by all means, get suckered by the numbers. The skidpad numbers made me laugh. 🙂 A skidpad test shows one measure of a car’s grip, not handling, Peter. It… Read more »
dickerin
Member
4 years 11 months ago

None of the three cars to be considered was a VW CC.

But I think you broke the most important premise of this exercise…This should be a fun thing and not get too scientific…

mike saunders
Member
4 years 11 months ago

Agreed.

The choices were between two Saabs and a ringer. On this forum, the real discussion is over which color Saab to pick.

dickerin
Member
4 years 11 months ago

Curiously enough, the people on this site do tend to favor Saabs. Who knew?

The choice for my new car was between the 9-3 and the CC. My wife convinced me that I needed a wagon (which I do) and I got a massive discount from Saab. I still loved the CC.

RS
Member
4 years 11 months ago
Mike, this is the kind of ”support” I’ve never understood from (former) Saabers. You’ve been on SU for, what a year now telling us how much better these German cars are. It’s getting really boring like VW. I’ve seen enough of them fall apart through the years when Saabs keep on going. There are even a few German Saabers on here also you know. What’s wrong with them? (wink) Not only are your arguments plain obvious i.e. a Passat CC has a more modern interior and sound system than a 9-3 (thank GM) but some of them are borderline ignorant,… Read more »
katar1na
Member
4 years 11 months ago

Ok, I speak as a mother, then 😉

#1
This car will make your wonderful kid stay alive, not drive too fast (hopefully) and be safe in case
that somebody else isn´t driving carefully.

He will have really good car for several years to come, perhaps even as a family father to his firstborn? 😉

#2
No way! Dream on! To fast, to much power.. no, no, no!

#3
Okej, this one will be something to pick up some hot chicks. And maybe he is not driving to fast in this
one either, due to fuel consumption…

zippy
Member
4 years 11 months ago

He will have really good car for several years to come, perhaps even as a family father to his firstborn?

Grandpa 74StingSaab. Too young. VolvoMan epitomoses OvloV drivers….not too clever my half. The new S60 looks nice though.

74StingSaab
Member
4 years 11 months ago

Oh good lord the first time I have been mentioned as grandfather anything and it had to be from Zippy…

the insanity.

Khrisdk
Member
4 years 11 months ago

Hehe

You will probably get used to the title over time 🙂
I can happen suddently.
I am at the tender age of 47 a grandfather of 5, and have a 8 year old daughter at the same time.

Regarding your sons choices and the topic of the post:

If he is anything like me at the age of 21, the one to get is the one with the biggest engine and the biggest stereo…and RWD.
Safety is not really high on the list of features at that age.
He may be more sensible than I was though 😉

Moody Saaber
Member
4 years 11 months ago
I suggest Subject #1 2010 Saab 9-3 2.0T. I have an ’06 Aero and even with my best efforts, the front spoiler has been scrapped an dented due to its low ground clearance. A replacement is at least $200 painted and installed. The parchment interior of the Aero would be difficult to keep clean. The Carbon Grey of #1 is a dynamite SAAB color! It says here is a precision and classy thinking person’s automobile. Sorry, but I recoil from the Camaro. To me it is an un-SAAB car. The world is littered with them. Yes, most SAAB owners are… Read more »
Moody Saaber
Member
4 years 11 months ago

My ’06 Aero is a SportCombi and it is fast. I got a SportCombi for its cargo-carrying ability, part of the joy of owning a 3-door 900. I am just currently bummed with the susceptability to damage of the spoiler. I suppose one can blame that on the driver though.

74StingSaab
Member
4 years 11 months ago

Trust me, i relate with my ’06 Combi Aero and the wife’s ’07 SS Aero… the front is sometimes just too low.

theSandySaab
Member
4 years 11 months ago

Yes, one a few drawbacks of the pre-2008 Aero, front spoiler too low. I’m now on my third in 2+ years…
I need marshaling to most mall parking to…
Anyways, just passed a hundred opinions on the matter, all very objective and logical…

ddreibVT
Member
4 years 11 months ago

At great risk of being burned at the stake for heresy on this WEBsite, my recommendation would be a new Ford/Focus. It has a lot of the Saab-ish characteristics that we all seek at a price that would allow him to purchase a new one on his budget.

Chris_de_Ze
Member
4 years 11 months ago

I think “Trued” above made the most sensible suggestion to a father:
“Go for The safest car possible. 21 and probably accident prone….. Put your dearest in The safest possible set of wheels.”

That’s what I would do. Given that the son likes to own that specific car.

mike saunders
Member
4 years 11 months ago

Safest set of wheels would be a tank….Or something along the lines of a GMC Denali.

I’m going to stick with my original choice: E46 M3.

Even used, it will be worth more than a new Saab.

derek
Member
4 years 11 months ago

I don’t know how safe the Chevrolet is.

Buy the 2010 Saab. It is almost new.

Or pay a little more and buy a 2011.

A 2010 Saab could easily last to 2020 without many problems. By then, if he studies hard and becomes successful, he could buy 2 new Saabs. Or, if he goes to medical school, he can still be in residency training and need to use the 2010 car for a few more years beyond 2020.

North Toronto Punter
Member
4 years 11 months ago
Have we established the Aero is XWD? Auto or manual? (in both cases). In any case this is choosing between diamonds and rubies (in respect of the Saabs of course!). Assuming XWD on the Aero (not so different from the Turbo X[2008]) I’ve had both in the driveway (2009 2.0T, identical to 2010). At the end of the day I’ve always preferred fewer miles to more…deals on brand new cars are extraordinary too in US. XWD has snow-belt edge, properly tired. Rock-solid x2 at 40,000 km. BTW: Each car is well suited — and transformed — with tuning (Maptun; Hirsch;… Read more »
zippy
Member
4 years 11 months ago

NTP great so see you again. I was beginning to think you had been abducted by aliens, or worse, joined the dark side. 🙂

The new Jetta is an uber base A4 with about as much style as a paper cup! As Swade said DAS BORING!

North Toronto Punter
Member
4 years 11 months ago

Last man down, Zip — Phasers On Stun 🙂

[Sting: I was waffling a bit– #1 if I must]

retired saab
Member
4 years 11 months ago

I’d go with #1, assuming that you probably live somewhere that gets cold in the winter. That snow thing would shoot down #3.
Having worked with a large number of parents in the same boat, your insurance will be happier with #1 on two fronts – your son is under 25 and is thereby expensive, and he’s way more likely to get busted speeding in option 2 or 3.

Happy Hunting!

900SE
Member
4 years 11 months ago

@74stingray

Firstly, I’m 24 and I’d buy a Saab in a heartbeat.
If I were to choose from those 3 options, I’d take. the Aero, if it has the 2.0T (i don’t know if that is possible in the States), otherwise th option #1.

If it were my money I’d buy a 2007 9-3 Aero Convertible. I saw quite a few of them in your budget.

julie@KellySAAB
Member
Having over 20 years in the car business and having sold many a youngin’ their car, #1 is the way to go all day long of the choices presented. Good safety. Fun engine, but not TOO fun ; ), and good fuel economy. The Aero is way too much car for a young driver. The Camaro is just a silly choice considering you live in the NE and this is to be his daily driver. The only other SAAB option would be the new 2011 (which I would also be happy to quote to you) if he can spend slightly… Read more »
74StingSaab
Member
4 years 11 months ago

Julie… send me a msg on FB and let me know if you have any in Carbon Grey .. moonroof required, cold weather package is optional for him.

zippy
Member
4 years 11 months ago

Maybe Dad just needs to sell his car to son and get a 2010/11 9-5!! 🙂

74StingSaab
Member
4 years 11 months ago

Pfft.. if dad buys anything, it would be a red 9-3X.. However I still have a Corvette equipped with a punk whooping 7.4 liter ground pounder under the hood (shameless sales pitch) collecting dust in the garage as I have not been able to get it sold.

So.. until it sells, no 9-3x anytime soon. Besides, my combi does just fine.

SVX92
Member
4 years 11 months ago

You need to take it to the corvette show in Carlisle

bazalion
Member
4 years 11 months ago

I`ve got a new Carbon Grey 9-5 Sedan. The colour has attracted several good comments. Tell your son it looks upmarket and go for it. It might well attract girls – and that`s me a 70 year-old saying it!

Incidentally, moderators, you show me as living in Newcatle-upon-Tyne. I actually live in the city of Lincoln which is in the English Midlands not the North-East of England.

hogge
Member
4 years 11 months ago

I gather he’s a young guy like me, so I suggest you tell him to find a 9-3 with XWD.

Aaron
Member
4 years 11 months ago
At 21, I graduated college and was in a similar situation. I bought a certified ’08 Aero FWD (one of the titled but not really sold used editions, so it was essentially brand new [140 miles]). I cross shopped it to the Infiniti G35x, Mazdaspeed 3 and Mazdaspeed 6, and the Audi A4. I loved that car and it performed like a champ. The automatic transmission began to weigh on me over time as I’d chosen it for the ease of dealing with Boston’s abysmal rush hour/red light combination special. I ended up wanting all wheel drive and yet more… Read more »
Aaron
Member
4 years 11 months ago

Whoops on the bold for the ralliart. Can’t edit my comment to fix it. Oh well.

talladegan
Member
4 years 11 months ago

Probably a stupid question but what does ”grey on black’ mean?

Aaron
Member
4 years 11 months ago

Grey exterior over a black interior. One of his listed options above was carbon grey over grey which does nothing for me and the Speed 6 interiors are typically black (though a few were black and white).

talladegan
Member
4 years 11 months ago

Thanks Aaron. I’ve never come across that method of describing it. Possibly a US thing I guess. Thanks for clarifying.

A Grue Not Here
Member
4 years 11 months ago
As a 24 year old I was going to give you some additional suggestions, but I’m in the UK and from the comments I gather you’re in the US so I thought I’d better check my suggestions were available first as I knew the US had some different brands. What I hadn’t realised, was how few brands you have. No Fiat, No Citroen, No Renault, No Peugeot, No Vauxhall/Opel, No Seat and many of those you do have are missing many of their coolest cars. I can’t believe you don’t get the Volvo Estates, no wonder you were bashing the… Read more »
74StingSaab
Member
4 years 11 months ago

A Subaru was suggested and quickly dismissed !!! I won’t say how my son described Subaru and who drives them….but it was almost as bad of how I describe 95% of BMW and Mercedes drivers.

TGX4776
Member
4 years 11 months ago

I would like to know as a current Subaru owner.

I love my 97 Legacy GT and have found the community to be very similar to the Saab community. Very friendly helpful people.

I miss my C900 a lot though!

74StingSaab
Member
4 years 11 months ago

It’s all in good humor… nothing bad and nothing wrong with a Subaru.

Saab_Lurker
Member
4 years 11 months ago

Those brands do have their stereotypes. Saabs are great at avoiding them.

zippy
Member
4 years 11 months ago

How about Subaru? Do they offer anything over there he may be interested in?

Interesting. Subaru. Really? 😉

74StingSaab
Member
4 years 11 months ago

😉 maybe if it was a 9-2x, then it could be somewhat acceptable

zippy
Member
4 years 11 months ago

Wash your mouth out!!!!!!

nixschel
Member
4 years 11 months ago
Deqar 74 StingSaab, oh this question does bring out the boy in me. I recall my first ever car, a fairly clapped-out 1970’s Mini 1000. What a deathtrap that was, and how proud I was when I bought it. However, my parents hated it so much, they gave me an MG-B GT for my next birthday 😉 How could I refuse such a present 😉 Re which one to choose? I’d go for option 1. Better deal, if anything were to be wrong you have a decent warrantee behind you. I am impressed with the fact your offspring actually looks… Read more »
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