9-5´s extended family grows mother GM delivers XTS


Cadillac XTS

Mother GM has come down with yet another sibling to big brother SAAB 9-5 and middle sibling Buick Lacrosse. They all share the same last name Epsilon 2. Yesterday at the Los Angeles Auto Show the Cadillac XTS was officially seen for the first time. The other brother Buick LaCrosse was there at the show but big old brother Saab 9-5 was at home in Sweden.
It is interesting to see how similar the siblings are and yet so different.
So what is similar and different:
– Chassis geometry length between axels, FWD standard and Haldex XWD option. HiPer chassis, DriveSense guess Caddy calls it something else but I believe it is the same.
– HUD is the same in Buick and Saab Caddy might get it in full color just like WNB and iduA (Stupid if You ask me as a Human Factors Expert)
– Rear seat infotainment seams to be the same as well as the front info screen in Buick and Saab. Caddy has stepped up somewhat with their take on Saab iQon.
– Steering-wheel same in Buick and Saab some more frustrating buttons on Caddy.
– Adaptive lights same
– Seats and headrests looks like it is the same basic structure Saab Whiplash protection, and control knobs etc.
– Door buttons for windows etc. looks the same
– Exterior mirror design with the LED turn signal bar similar.
– Glass similar? hard to tell. But sure look similar on all 3 cars. Plastics on B-pillar looks just like 9-5.
– Exterior styling. Well here is the great water divider. It´s a matter of taste. My raking is this Buick looks like any Japaneze car, Saab looks sporty modern and sleek, Caddy looks modern but with that edgy hard non-welcoming look.

Buick LaCrosse

Saab 9-5 NG

Would be great to have all three in an AutoCross shootout to see if there are any handling differences.

What on the 3 siblings is designed by the Saab people, would be interesting to know. Sure the germans at Opel in Russelsheim as been on it so my two cents on this is that all there are to a VERY high degree European cars, if not at least to some percentage SAAB. Hurray!
Lets hope people can have the choice of all three pretty soon.
Please fill the link with any information You have on the three vehicles similarities and differences.

alwaysSaab
Member
4 years 10 months ago

The front of the Cadillac is super ugly, to say the least. How is it possible for anyone to have designed such an awful, ugly car.

michaelb
Member
4 years 10 months ago

+1, however from the side, not so bad.

Troels, Denmark
Member
4 years 10 months ago

It´s interesting how one of two cars sharing a lot off tech. can be among the nicest in its class, while the other easily compete about being the ugliest …
This “money-box-look” gives me qualm…

Henrik B.
Member
4 years 10 months ago

I like the Caddy…!
It’s different than the 9-5, but in some ways better looking…

Cheers!

ivo 71
Member
4 years 10 months ago

That’s humor, right?

Ivo

Henrik B.
Member
4 years 10 months ago

Not for a second…

Cheers!

BoomBoom
Member
4 years 10 months ago

I also think it’s a great-looking car with a beautiful interior. Still want to replace my 07 9-5 Aero wagon with a ’12.

katar1na
Member
4 years 10 months ago

GM only have SAAB-engineer-wannabee´s? 😉

katar1na
Member
4 years 10 months ago

GM only have SAAB-engineer-wannabe´s? – not a whole hive of them…

paddan
Member
4 years 10 months ago

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Lots of people think Saabs are ugly, for example.

Jeff Shore
Member
4 years 10 months ago

Looks like an Escalade front end smooshed

Red J
Member
4 years 10 months ago

I think the price of the Caddy will be interesting. The Saab is about $10.000 more expensive than the Buick, will the Caddy be more expensive than the Saab?

golfhunter
Member
4 years 10 months ago

The Saab designed by Simon Padian looks by far better

Carlo A
Member
4 years 10 months ago

What happened to Simon? Still in Trolland?

hans h
Member
4 years 10 months ago

I always find it interesting to compare siblings (cars and people).
This Saab/Opel/Buick/Cadillac-Combo will, for me at least, be as interesting to compare as the old Saab 9000/Alfa 164/Lancia Thema/Fiat Chroma-siblings.

I really like the Cadillac. And had not GM treated Saab as they did, I might even have wanted one. But as it is I’m not so happy.
Saab and Cadillac could have been something together, but not now.

m!ko
Member
4 years 10 months ago
Good coverage Trued, I wonder, how the three siblings would show off, if they were put into dirty hands of guys from Top Gear 😉 they always know how to kick our enthusiast’s butts 🙂 And now for serious, I wish people knew, that theese three cars are from one family, and a lot’s of stuff was developed in “T-hattan”. It would be a nobilitation for Buick and Caddy to spread the news, that they are sharing parts from Saab, but we know it’s not the way, the old lady acts. Taste is always an individual thing, but I give… Read more »
theSandySaab
Member
4 years 10 months ago
Exactly my thought as well: with most of the chassi, seats and safety developed and/or co-developed by Saab, it seems a true shame to erase the source for much of the creativity and invention! And the Buick is so bland and the Caddy with unruly and aggressive lines, the Saab is clearly (imho) the design paradigm (but I’m swedish…). GM has gained a lot from their years with Saab, and Saab? A state of the art production line in Trollhättan that is idle? Unfortunately, I can also see why GM has very little interest to allow for any IP transfer… Read more »
m!ko
Member
4 years 10 months ago
It would be good to know, how for the 20 years was Saab treated in GM’s group? Wasn’t the T-hattan the developement center? Then the technology was sucked off, placed into other brands, and labeled with GM stickers, under their patent? And now they don’t want to let the Saab go because of IP… If talking about 9-3, after 9 years (8 under old lady), the bill was paid, for sure. GM did a good money on this car. What do they want more? They are affraid, that wealthy Saab will make trouble for their poor, macdonaldised, brands, because of… Read more »
theSandySaab
Member
4 years 10 months ago

+9

monte03
Member
4 years 10 months ago

How about the engines offered in the Cadillac compared to the Saab ?

Red J
Member
4 years 10 months ago

On the Caddy you can get the 3.6L naturally aspirated V6 with 300hp, on the Saab you have the 2.8L Turbo V6 also with 300hp. Both cars with auto transmission and AWD have an EPA mileage of 17/27 mpg (City/Highway). The

Caddy engine will have 264 lb-ft of torque and the Saab has 295 lb-ft of torque. I would always go the turbo-way. 😉

Osama Dajani
Member
4 years 10 months ago
Ladies and Gentlemen: The road-going version of the XTS remains true to its concept counterpart, sporting Cadillac’s latest interpretation of its ‘Art & Science’ design language. The XTS is highlighted by its bold egg-crate grille and vertical taillights. Inside the XTS places a heavy emphasis on technology and design, including the luxury division’s new Cadillac User Experience, or CUE for short. The CUE system includes an eight-inch screen in the center stack, a 12.3-inch reconfigurable gauge cluster and a unique touchscreen interface that mimics today’s tablets. Other technologies available on the XTS include Lane Departure Warning, Forward Collision Alert, Adaptive… Read more »
theSandySaab
Member
4 years 10 months ago

http://www.Cadillac.com does not even have the car in their line up yet, it is at least 6-9 months away… The interior is surprisingly bland and why wooden inlays in the steering wheel????

RS
Member
4 years 10 months ago

The XTS will go up against cars like the BMW 5-Series, Mercedes-Benz E-Class and Audi A6, but the Caddy holds a size advantage over its German rivals — about four inches in the cases of the 5-Series and E-Class and two-inches over the Audi.

Strangely the same advantage was a big negative in the NG 9-5…
I’d bet most people would sense no driving feel difference between a 4,7 and a 5,0 meter car in daily commuting. The advantages; leg room, trunk size and safety.

MariusGTV
Member
4 years 10 months ago

The 9-5 and the XTS may be siblings but that Caddy sure looks like it fell out of the ugly tree and hit every branch on the way down. That thing is puke ugly!

The Buick is little better IMHO.

Saab must survive just to ensure we have some half decent cars to look at!

Griffin Up! Cuore Sportivo!

Henrik B.
Member
4 years 10 months ago

Trued.

You forgot to mention, that the Chevy Malibu is also a siblig.
http://www.chevrolet.com/malibu-mid-size-sedan/pictures/#/exterior_21

Cheers!

theSandySaab
Member
4 years 10 months ago

Are you sure? I am not, the Malibu is a smaller car than the NG9-5 and XTS/LaGrose… Possibly an Epsilon2, can anyone confirm/verify????

theSandySaab
Member
4 years 10 months ago

Have seen and driven the Malibu. While a lot of car for the money, I found it “cheap” and when going over details like welds, wires, installation details, interior etc, very “cheap”…
Yes, Epsilon would make sense….

Red J
Member
4 years 10 months ago

The Malibu/Regal/Insiginia are based on the Eps II SWB (Short wheel base), and the LaCrosse/XTS/9-5 are based on the Eps II LWB (long Wheel Base) platform.

theSandySaab
Member
4 years 10 months ago

Thanks Red for the clarification!

Toby K
Member
4 years 10 months ago

Sorry but I think that Caddy is f*cking hideous.

xlx
Member
4 years 10 months ago

the rear side of the buick looks like a very bad joke.

martinsaab
Member
4 years 10 months ago

Maybe I am i bit biased, but for me it would be the Saab. Absolutely no question about it.
But I am afraid the Chinese might go for the Caddy.
As far as I heard, they like chrome *bling*

Troels, Denmark
Member
4 years 10 months ago

Please – get that disgusting Caddy removed from the front-page off SU as soon as possible … 😉

Thylmuc
Member
4 years 10 months ago

Interestingly, what GM now calls the Science and Arts style, I can remeber to have been referred to as Stealth Design when first introduced, a reminescence of the then new stealth bombers. So, the Caddy design is really born from jets too. Unfortunately, from the ugliest built so far. And, as I heard, they fly like a brick. The Caddys ever since look pathetic and militarian at the same time.

ivo 71
Member
4 years 10 months ago

Remember that old horror movie ‘The Car’? This Caddy somehow reminds me of the car in it.

Ivo

SteveW
Member
4 years 10 months ago
What this shows beyond a shadow of a doubt is that Simon Padian is a superb designer. He may have a weird thing for light surrounds eg 9-5 dame edna look and the black ‘masking tape’ around the 9-3 saloon rear lights but when it comes to fluid, uncluttered, interesting (no make that gorgeous) cars he is streets ahead of the GM boys. Does the Caddy has something of a Passat side elevation (try covering the front with your hand to see what I mean) albeit with an unsubtble crease and UGLY headlamps that look like something off an old… Read more »
Troels, Denmark
Member
4 years 10 months ago

+

davidgmills
Member
4 years 10 months ago

Caddy has had this edgy stealth fighter design now for about ten years. Some people in the US apparently like it, but I never have. I guess it is a matter of taste or lack thereof. Caddy’s do look noticeably different than most other cars from the front.

Troels, Denmark
Member
4 years 10 months ago

I actually do not think it is true stealth-design. – More like a money-box.. And I guess this it the signal it is supposed to send: Money, prestige. IMO Cadillac (if standing for anything at all,,) in many senses stands for the opposite values as Saab. Opulence and vulgarity versus modesty, honesty and refinement …

North Toronto Punter
Member
4 years 10 months ago
Could not disagree more stongly with that statement as to what the brand represents. Rather I would contend that current Saab Marketeers have distorted those values in recent times…. There was nothing modest about Stig Blomqvist’s, Erik Carlsson’s, Ola Stromberg’s, Pat Moss’s, Per Eklund’s … achievements nor driving styles (nor the cars they drove — 99 Turbo..raucous, turbo lag, torque steer). They were, for the record, out to ‘Kill the Competition’. Saab can no longer afford to wallow in touchy-feely mediocrity (‘move your mind’, ‘responsible performance’…and so on– it’s fricken milquetoast–sterile intellectualism). And why we’re stuck competing against low end… Read more »
Troels, Denmark
Member
4 years 10 months ago

The whole meaning for me, regarding the efforts to save Saab is actually also to save some true values and integrity in the car-industry. Among them a coherence between technical innovations and design.language.
Regarding the modesty I was not talking about power or driving, but solely about a design-language which distances itself from the most boastful and showy.

obelix
Member
4 years 10 months ago

The Buick is spoiling the otherwise fine image.

YMB 9-3
Member
4 years 10 months ago

GM Is the Worlds biggest car failer manifactor in the hall humman been history ,, and there speacialest in thefing another hard inteligents workers work as SAAB ,,

nixschel
Member
4 years 10 months ago

As prviously stated above, can someone please remove that image of that caddy asap? What a hideous creature that is. It hurts my eyes….. Gone is the balance in the design, which suits 9-5NG so well. Even that Buick has a rather uncomfortable flow across the side when seen in that picture.

Anyway, Gm is cashing in on what I see as the 9-5NG legacy. Am sure someone will state brash and bold styling for that caddy. Somehow the arching of the roof reminds me of myself when my back has caved in, i.e. bloody uncomfortable……..

Red J
Member
4 years 10 months ago

The first thing that came to my head when I yesterday saw a picture of the XTS was: If I had to choose between the XTS and a E-Class, I would choose the Cadillac.

Cadillac is trying to compete with Mercedes, and I think they could manage to beat Merc in the US.

Toby K
Member
4 years 10 months ago
If I had to choose between Caddy and Merc I would shoot myself in the head. In the afterlife I would dream of Saab, and maybe have some back-up toughts about Jaguar. I just can’t get my head around gaudy American styling-its just too damn “obvious” I guess European style to the Yanks must seem dull and boring…i’d call it subtle or understated but they have a right to think that, that’s the difference. I do like the new Mustang though I think that is a brilliant muscle car design, but all that bling and grunt doesn’t transfer well into… Read more »
Red J
Member
4 years 10 months ago

Sorry, but I’m too valuable to shot myself in the head because of a Caddy. 😉

SteveW
Member
4 years 10 months ago

The previous E-Class was a good looking albeit very conservative car. The latest E-Class? well words fail me other than what the heck are the funny creases running from the rear door handles – looks like the design efforts of a 13 year old trying to add some ‘interest’ to the design. And then there’s the interior what a stressful looking place to be. Still better looking than the Caddy though so that puts things in perspective 😉

bpsorrel
Member
4 years 10 months ago

Why the Mercedes bashing guys? I have a CLS as well as my Saab and it’s a cracking car. Build quality is far beyond anything GM could even dream about.and the styling is iconic. Saabs are great, that’s why I bought one, but other cars are good too, remember that please. Blinkered is not good.

hans h
Member
4 years 10 months ago

If I had to choose between a Cadillac and a Mercedes?
I would choose the beautiful Mercedes 300 SEL 6.3. The granddaddy of all supersedans. 🙂

Chicago Swede
Member
4 years 10 months ago

Really? I have flashbacks of the ALIEN monster coming out of it’s MOTHER ALIEN stomach everytime I see that Cadillac. What a fitting analogy for GM…

MarkS
Member
4 years 10 months ago

That Caddy is hideous.

Gopher
Member
4 years 10 months ago

I really, REALLY cannot stand the proportions of this car. The nose is too stubby up front, which is not necessarily a bad thing, except that there’s WAY too much overhang in the rear, and it gives a seriously ugly profile.I also really hate that little window next to the C pillar. Only the headlights are slightly attractive, but still, when combined with the massive grill, this car looks more Chevrolet Malibu than any Cadillac.

And sadly, this this will sell like hotcakes. Disgusting.

zippy
Member
4 years 10 months ago

BLING BLING. The drug dealers will love ’em. A tasteless slice of Americana.

Jonas Axelsson
Member
4 years 10 months ago
One of the things I have learned is that (though that Caddy would not be the one I bought), I can’t see “ugly” from inside the car while I am putting you in my dust. Make up your minds, I swear you exhibit schizophrenic symptoms here. One minute Saab is “Big Brother” and the next the aver no affinity or relationship to or with GM. Ugly, cutting laps around Nurburgring at a pace that would make you dizzy. Mother GM cutting laps around around “The Ring” in a “Blue Devil” on street tires on the heels of a full race… Read more »
saintjohn
Member
4 years 10 months ago

Took a look at the interior pics from the xts…

http://www.autobild.de/bilder/bilder-cadillac-xts-in-la-update-2283911.html#bild8|ref=http://www.autobild.de/artikel/cadillac-xts-la-auto-show-2011-update-2283800.html

the xts-interior feels a lot more classy and premium to me than the interior of the 9-5 – not designwise, but from a quality point of view (i’ve not seen it in real)…looks like on a level with bmw, mb, audi and that asian stuff…i think saab should take a look at their interior and interior options…

Thylmuc
Member
4 years 10 months ago

Gelsenkirchen baroque, American style? There are about 50 too many useless details in that dashboard, along with strategically misplaced bling elements. Amazing that you prefer this clutter of resin lumps. But de gustibus non disputandum.

Thylmuc
Member
4 years 10 months ago

Maybe that was too harsch. But the AeroX dashboard and the green acrylic cladding in the 9-4x concept really re-programmed my perception of how car interiours could look like. I would not appreciate the style of most contemporary car interiours at my home; why should I accept them in my car? Give me something new and cool, Saab!!

Toby K
Member
4 years 10 months ago

@SaintJohn

“On a level with BMW MB, AUDI and that Asian stuff” ??

I’d be interested to know who from Asia you put against the German competion. Proton? Hyundai maybe?

In which case fail to see your point.

spacy
Guest
4 years 10 months ago

.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder…I, Suppose!!!!!!

Jonas Axelsson
Member
4 years 10 months ago
Rule #1 in fast driving is “get your head out of the cockpit and look at the road”. That is followed closely by Rule #2 which is “get your head out of the cockpit and look at the road”. I do admit that about the only other interior I have seen that is that ugly is in a Spyker. Really, VM was “suspect” the minute I took a look at a Spyker. They are ugly inside and out. Not even from the same genetic stock so you can’t blame GM for that. I would prefer to own an Alfa Montreal… Read more »
saintjohn
Member
4 years 10 months ago

i don’t like the xts-interior either…it’s too frumpy for me…but quality wise it looks great…and yes, the spyker-interior isn’t mine either…and the backside of the most spikers is an imposition to my eyes, too…

Jonas Axelsson
Member
4 years 10 months ago
Amen! I think Caddy is trying to hold onto the “silver haired set” of retired folks and they are afraid that (and they are correct), that they will lose that market niche. Those folks loved that cushion of air that the land yacht gave them. Racing history, I would suggest that our Euro friends look up the Caddy of the 1940’s and 1950’s and you would find them racing across the Mexican desert in the Pan-Am series. They were big and fast too, like the Mercedes of the era. I would have loved to have been a Zora Duntov and… Read more »
Mark
Member
4 years 10 months ago

It is an ugly mother. It’s a pity the 9-5’s related to it. What is that they say about being able to choose your friends and not your relatives!

Jonas Axelsson
Member
4 years 10 months ago

Ah! True, how true. And the relative I would opt for would be the CTS-V. The Australian’s did a pretty good job. Holden makes some mean cars using the GM parts bin.

RS
Member
4 years 10 months ago

The only problem is that CTS-V does not only look horrible on the outside but inside as well. True GM. The engineering for Nurburgring might be very good though. Real life probably not so much.

Mark
Member
4 years 10 months ago

At least we have been spared Cadillacs down here in Australia. Plans to sell them here were well advanced, but GM’s bankruptcy forced it to abandon that idea.

bpsorrel
Member
4 years 10 months ago

Anyone think the Buick looks like a Lexus GS? :)))

GerritN
Member
4 years 10 months ago
Ladies, ladies! Do you really GM cares whether you like a Caddy or not? The only thing that counts is if they sell. I can tell you that, in the American market, Caddies with their ugly faces sell like hot cakes. The Saab 9-5, as pretty as you may think it is, almost doesn’t sell at all. Same will probably be true for the Chinese markets, they seem to like in-your-face cars too. Of course, in Europe it’s a completely different story. GM has been trying to make in-roads with Cadillac in Europe for years now, without much success. Europeans… Read more »
ThomasJ
Member
4 years 10 months ago

Of course it’s a matter of taste.
In my opinion the design problems started in the early 80’s for Cadillac.
http://otomotive-online.blogspot.com/2010/12/cadillac-eldorado-classical.html
Parchment steering wheel??

North Toronto Punter
Member
4 years 10 months ago
I agree that the styling of the XTS leaves something to be desired (but it would be hypocritical to criticize the underpinnings) . I’m not going to be an Apologist for Cadillac either…but the Cadillacs of 2011/12 (and for the last few years) have not been the floaty barges of old (people here sometimes need to ‘Move Their Minds’). It’s actually the contrarians choice (folk getting bored of the ‘Me Too’ Germans–but not wanting to sacrifice Performance). While they have a huge legacy to overcome in respect of ‘Old Man’s Car’ Cadillac has been re-positioned (and styled) as a true… Read more »
Red J
Member
4 years 10 months ago

+1 for the CTS-V
I also think that many US/Canadian TurboX driver may look after the still to come ATS in the near future.

fido
Member
4 years 10 months ago

Caddies not sell well in chinese. Chinese love european brand, like Audi, BMW, Benz,

SAAB also hadn’t sold well in chinese, because there are too much GM material used in interior, looks same as Buick. Those GM components make SAABs look like very cheap, don’t like a true european brand.

in chinese mind, european products are high quality with advanced materials.

Iiari
Member
4 years 10 months ago
I’ve always liked and respected Cadillac’s design language, even if it’s not personally something I would buy. I saw the XTS Concept at the auto shows last year (virtually identical to this production model) and thought it looked great, with a lot of presence. Again, it’s not for me, but I thought the XTS Concept I saw was 95% of the way towards Cadillac finally nailing that design language and making it feel like it “fits.” I’m very curious what they do with the upcoming XTS-V. The previous and current CTS models, while attractive, have felt a bit awkward, especially… Read more »
RS
Member
4 years 10 months ago

Speaking of the XTS interior.
Here’s the deal. Had GM allowed Saab to be their true European premium brand with the nice looking interior materials and competitive engines boy would we be in a different place right now.
It’s like GM was almost scared of letting THN loose so they wouldn’t start steeling Caddy customers (in the US)? Why else kill any chance of Saab competing against the M-series starting late 80’s. Strange strategy over all when you think how poorly American brands have always done here.
Ford at least let Volvo function.

North Toronto Punter
Member
4 years 10 months ago
Agreed RS (I guess we’ve been over some of this ground in the ‘Hi Po Challenge’ of SU yore). Will never forget (and forgive me if I repeat myself, being an old man), during the Trollhattan Festival of Summer 2010 when the World seemed Ours… ‘snuck’ into after the Factory Tour — courtesy of E. Morsa!– which ended with mingling and presentation of a new 9-5 …opened the driver’s door… and jaw dropped. Where was the ‘ice-block’ finish of the car I had seen in April in Toronto (and so impressed)? I’ve since got used to the finish…but I knew… Read more »
Andre Melancon
Member
4 years 10 months ago

The C Pillar remember me the one on the new 95. Nice try from Cadillac but I found the design of the 95 more visually balance and the lights are also more refined.

Andre Melancon
Member
4 years 10 months ago

I hope that Cadillac will not have a wagon version of this model giving a chance to the 95 SC on the North American market especially than Audi (6) and BMW left this market as well of Volvo with only the XC 70 model.

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