Fat Lady news snippets (What are GM and SweGov up to now?)

Top Gear on Friday featured an article about Saab’s current predicament. Saab now only days from disappearing?.

It mentions what we have heard elsewhere, that the Swedish Government say they will try persuading GM to allow Saab continued access to GM technology and parts.

That’s big of them. The Swedish Government has been fantastically unhelpful to Saab ever since its funding crisis started almost a year ago. It has turned down various foreign investors and chucked several administrative spokes in the wheels.

It might be too late now for it to make sympathetic noises.

— Paul Horrell, Top Gear


Yes, indeed. Actually Swegov’s fascination with the Chinese started long before then. Already a month after the sale to Spyker, Jöran Hägglund was quoted as saying that Chinese ownership would be the best option for Saab. I share his view to some degree, but his statement could be interpreted as an indirect attack on the company that did manage to buy Saab from GM. GM had actively disregarded any Chinese interest at that point and Swegov should have seen the writing on the wall. Yet they seem to have stuck with their “Chinese ownership”-mantra all this time.

What is best for Saab is survival. And they cannot survive if they sever all bonds with GM. At least not for quite some time. Swegov’s blindness to this fact is not helpful.

Thanks ‘chevy’ for the tip!

—-

My old local newspaper, Aftenposten, speculates about GM’s motivation to keep Saab out of China. The answer? The new Cadillac XTS, according to Aftenposten, borrows a lot of technology from Saab’s 9-5.

Edmunds.com mentions “Front wheel drive”. Another review at rsportscars.com enthusiastically describes an all-wheel drive system that sounds like it could be designed for northern Scandinavian roads. “An advanced, specially calibrated all-wheel-drive system ensures optimal traction in wet and slippery conditions, and helps deliver maximum traction while cornering.”

The engine is vastly different, but FWD is pretty damning evidence. Peter Dörrich mentioned Cadillac’s skepticism towards front wheel drive at his October fest presentation, and it was only thanks to XWD that they let Saab take the lead on that one. XWD was born from a manufacturer specializing in FWD. It would probably be difficult to offer a RWD drive-train on a platform that also should accommodate XWD for the more expensive models.

Realistically though, I fail to see why the XTS should feel threatened by the 9-5. Sure, the 9-5 is extremely nicer looking, and probably costs less, while performing quite well thanks to Saab’s insistence on using turbo technology, but I think they are still targeted towards different segments of the market. The 9-5 is for people with good taste in cars, and the XTS is for those who need something that looks big and intrusive (that scores high on Jeremy Clarkson’s patented cock-o-meter).

sala or bust
Guest
4 years 10 months ago

Well, the election is coming and the govs need to be able to say “we tried our best”…
But if they had, VA might been the one putting in the money needed when they needed it, insted of this last 6-8 months of increasing pile of cash needed to get going again.

Tripod
Member
4 years 10 months ago

I agree with the gist of the comment; but there is no election in the near future, true there is always an election coming up; but it is 14 months since the last one, and the next one is in 2014.

sala or bust
Guest
4 years 10 months ago

To be able to tell those words, tjey have to say them before the s-t hits tje fan. And you are right, 2014 is a long time. People will forgett about this untill then. My misstake.

74StingSaab
Member
4 years 10 months ago

This morning i came onto SU still squinty-eyed and not really awake. I was in that condition until I saw the title “fat lady news” and my heart sank…. now I’m fully awake.

Jonas Axelsson
Member
4 years 10 months ago
So you folks are like cafeteria Catholics so to speak and just cherry pick the capitalism that is working at the moment. The very conservative capitalism that was invented in Scandinavia and Germany? Saab was in decline on it’s lack of merit, the GM series sold but the decline continued with dealers closing. The Dutch failed to save it with a Russian and now the Swedish government is bad? Really, come and live over here where we support and prop up companies despite logic. Come where government involvement is rampant. My former Governor just lost millions of peoples dollars by… Read more »
rune
Member
4 years 10 months ago

I’ve replied to you once before very recently.

Saab was profitable as recently as 2007.

By “The Dutch” you are probably referring to Spyker and “with a Russian” I can only assume you mean Antonov. But SweGov stopped Antonov from becoming a formal owner and they stopped him from making further investments.

In short, SweGov speaks of free market forces on one side, yet takes an active role in deciding just who gets to own what. All the while they tell people that they are doing whatever they can to help…

Haakan
Member
4 years 10 months ago

“Saab was profitable as recently as 2007.”

Interesting… do you have some figures on this?

rune
Member
4 years 10 months ago
Glad you asked Haakan. http://saabsunited.saabklubben.se/2009/03/dagens-insdustri-gm-accounting-practices-with-saab.html Basically the problem was that Saab was not a standalone company in the previous decade. E.g. the profits from sales of cars in North America went to GM NA, but the production costs was kept in Saab’s accounting books. That alone skews the picture quite a bit. The European Cadillac story is also a big contributor to Saab’s seemingly lack of financial success. Billions of SEK spent trying to start production of the Cadillac BLS in Sweden. Not a happy moment for Saab I am sure. Not that the past is all that relevant, but… Read more »
Haakan
Member
4 years 10 months ago

Oh… I hoped you had some hard figures, not just speculations. I remember that there where some figures beeing mentioned internaly within Saab but there was no talk about Saab making an actual profit despite the GM accounting. From what I remember management was aware that Saab was operating at a loss in 2007.
Are you sure that the Cadillac BLS costs where in the region of several 1,000,000,000 SEK? Some of that developent also found its way into the facelifted 9-3.

sala or bust
Guest
4 years 10 months ago
Well, since we need to go by the official figures some will tell that the 2009 years result isn’t valid. http://allabolag.se/5562588912 But if that isn’t valid why should the previous year be valid? I for one can not believe that GM was such a sucker that they only kept SAAB going despite all those “losses” Why? For what reason? They sure didn’t let them build new models to be able to make bigger sales. But GM kept saab and the engineering going? Du you really think that GM was that stupid? I do believe they did an official profit during… Read more »
rune
Member
4 years 10 months ago
I did not start following Saab news until 2008, thanks to Swade. My impression from checking the archives and the articles I’ve read is that the Aero-X marked somewhat of a turning point for GM’s interest in Saab. It was mentioned that Saab finally got the support they needed from their parent company to develop new products and get the wheels rolling again. Of course, the 9-5 successor that was cancelled happened around then as well? Difficult to tell for an outsider though. A commentator remarked once that nobody stayed in charge for long. The leadership of Saab was changing… Read more »
sala or bust
Guest
4 years 10 months ago

I also think the turning point was about the same time as the aero-x was developed.
And it was about that time new models was developed by buick, opel and the like and they got better, with better safety. From where did that knowledge come from?

GM saw a potential and tapped that. I would do the same. But, to late, they realised the value of the underdog they had lept in the back for the last 20 years.

ivo 71
Member
4 years 10 months ago

Well, I guess from the fact that GM created an European engineering R&D center in Russelsheim (Opel HQ) and moved the entire engineering department of Saab there.

Ivo

Jonas Axelsson
Member
4 years 10 months ago

I suppose you, since you are there, can see what companies were given favor and that is not a matter of press here. Can you site some?

Saab started falling off our charts here (wealthy zone too), seven or so years ago, with the closing of the dealers so it way prior to this fallout. Plenty of Saab here before that and then poof, they shut. BMW and Audi are on the rise and building new buildings in my town however otherwise I would blame the overall economy, but Saab just fell from favor.

rune
Member
4 years 10 months ago

I suppose you, since you are there, can see what companies were given favor and that is not a matter of press here. Can you site some?

Given favor by whom? What are you talking about?

You mean SweGov actually helping? Well, Maud’s son works for a windmill company, and she has happily talked favorable about windmills for most of her time as a minister… Never mind that it is quite possibly the least effective way of producing electricity (short of mounting a cow inside a treadmill) and the most effective way of killing birds and litter the landscape. YMMV.

sala or bust
Guest
4 years 10 months ago

Believe you don’t fancy the windmills are you…? 🙂

I’m with you. Develop the nuclear power….nope. Not at this place. This isn’t the forum right?
😉
Lets take this discussion to “nyteknik dot se”.

Jonas Axelsson
Member
4 years 10 months ago

You, I was refering to your comments:

“who gets to own what … active role in”

I was just talking about your comment.

rune
Member
4 years 10 months ago

rallyho, SweGov officials have commented on who they would prefer to own Saab. Jöran Hägglund at least twice, and Maud at least once.

By their actions, it seems they have tried to make their preference become reality (e.g. when Maud flat out refused to comment Antonov’s bid for a part of Saab).

Thus they are in effect dictating the ownership structure of a privately owned company.

There is a stark contrast between Maud Olofsson’s handling of Saab and the way Angela Merkel dealt with Opel.

Jonas Axelsson
Member
4 years 10 months ago

RUNE … please don’t leave it dangling. Who did Maud and Joran Hagglund indicate?

Much of what you see in print is never seen in English.

Eric H.
Member
4 years 10 months ago
The Caddy XTS is essentially very similar to the 9-5 under the skin. It’s also very similar to the Buick Regal, the LaCrosse, the Chevy Malibu as well others in GM’s lineup. The Epsilon II platform the XTS will be based on was designed to be flexible and is not that different from a chassis and architectural standpoint as the original Epsilon cars to include the current 9-3. While Saab was the first customer of Haldex’s Generation 4 all-wheel drive (a.k.a. XWD) it is now used in quite a few other vehicles to include Volkswagen models and Saab nor GM… Read more »
rune
Member
4 years 10 months ago
XWD was developed by Saab engineers in cooperation with Haldex. eLSD I believe is a pure Saab innovation that you will not find in non-GM adoptions of the 4th gen Haldex system (exclusively licensed to Saab the first year). It was Saab who pushed for XWD to become the drivetrain for the 9-4x and its sister Cadillac model. My point however was that Cadillac is hardly a brand that embraces front wheel drive, yet the basic model of the XTS is NOT rear wheel drive. That is quite revealing in itself. Especially when combined with a big engine which I’d… Read more »
davidgmills
Member
4 years 10 months ago

Cadillac has had front wheel drive since the early to mid eighties. I had two Cadillacs before switching to Saab in 1999. Both were front wheel drive. And I had both for at least five years each. Cadillac has predominantly been front wheel drive until very recently. It’s first front wheel drive was a 1967 El Dorado.

Chicago Swede
Member
4 years 10 months ago

Okay, I can’t help but wonder why Ford was able to sell Volvo to the Chinese so quickly and with very little fanfare?? Both Ford and Volvo seem to be doing quite well as of today. It is a true shame that a similar outcome can’t be reach for GM and SAAB. Wishfull thinking I guess…I am still praying and my family is driving our brood of 3 SAABS regardless if she sings or not…

Jonas Axelsson
Member
4 years 10 months ago
That is indeed the “64 thousand dollar question”, does anyone know of a good Volvo forum to get a stab at an answer? My guess it that Ford is riding pretty high after that shake up and feels they can be more stand alone in other markets. Perhaps they sold China ancient technology? My Volvo was a good car but not very inspiring. It is like a reliable mule in the back of the barn. The only selling feature was 7 passenger AWD 12 years ago. My relatives (industry folks), came back from family visits in Scandinavia all hyped over… Read more »
Tripod
Member
4 years 10 months ago

Okay, I can’t help but wonder why Ford was able to sell Volvo to the Chinese so quickly and with very little fanfare??

Some simply see it as: former Swedish brand, US owned, sold to China. But Ford negotiated directly with the Chinese, and for quite some time.

Their situation was probably different as well, presence on different markets, not to mention company culture.

Iiari
Member
4 years 10 months ago

My recollection was that it wasn’t quick at all, actually taking quite some time, with many fits and starts. Much longer than many anticipated.

Tripod
Member
4 years 10 months ago

Yep, as I said quite some time; don’t remember exactly, but some articles from the time of the deal mentions nearly two years of talks.

Anyhow, Saab and its owner is in a very delicate situation, with some tech already sold to China earlier, as well as the former owner’s huge interest in the Chinese market. But is it only IP and tech, or was GM concerned about the future for some brands in certain segments, potential competition from Saab in the long run?

Cerulean
Member
4 years 10 months ago

I’m sure the $1.8 billion paid by Geely helped ease the process.

Chicago Swede
Member
4 years 10 months ago

True, but why is GM so concerned about a technology transfer to the Chinese and Ford wasn’t, (apparently)? It just baffles me that this seemingly similar transaction has become so impossible for GM while Ford gladly deposited $1.8 billion in the bank after seliling Volvo.

hilmar
Member
4 years 10 months ago

Well, I had a break from this drama for a few days – but alas nothing new from the SweGov et al. Punch and Judy show. There seems to be hardly anyone who wants Saab to survive.

sala or bust
Guest
4 years 10 months ago

Strange isn’t?
But there also seems like many even would like saab to stop fight for their survival. Why would it be “non-logical” for a company in trouble to fight?
As long as there still is possibility, keep on!

hilmar
Member
4 years 10 months ago

No question – keep on fighting !

Troels, Denmark
Member
4 years 10 months ago

When will it be time for us to make protest to GM? Is it something SU will organize?

Peter Gilbert
Member
4 years 10 months ago

The XWD argument is a little thin as it is now available on non-GM brands like Hyundai.

3cyl
Member
4 years 10 months ago

GM’s responsibility is to their shareholders and employees. Last year, they gave new ownership a chance (probably against GM’s better judgement). I doubt they will make the same “mistake” (in their mind) again.

Troels, Denmark
Member
4 years 10 months ago

Yes – in 2009-2010 they (GM) changed their minds… – not at least because off the massive pressure from Saab-fans all over the world (.. Thanks, Swade..) . I hope that we this time will not let GM dot their crimes without protesting.

mike saunders
Member
4 years 10 months ago
Torque-vectoring AWD is not a pure Saab innovation, as it was being simultaneously developed by several component makers when Saab unveiled the XWD. Haldex was merely first to the market with it. Why is the XTS front-wheel drive? Because it shares the same global chassis that was primarily FWD with the option for AWD. There was no plundering of Saab technology for this, as the concept has been around for longer than most of us have been alive. You folks complaining about GM and talking about protesting are “barking up the wrong tree” with those complaints. Your anger should be… Read more »
Jonas Axelsson
Member
4 years 10 months ago

mike, what you say sounds like the true insider word. The only thing I would dispute would be the governments role and the “social mission”. If the company were Swedish owned (it seems to be Dutch/Russian), I could see the social mission being more active but when the profits go elsewhere I don’t feel as strongly. My naive (perhaps), view is that if there is too much drain (via profits), it becomes more than just worker jobs, it is about maintaining money in circulation in that immediate economy?

Jonas Axelsson
Member
4 years 10 months ago

Is Getrag AWD torque vectoring and that different from Haldex?

rune
Member
4 years 10 months ago

“Haldex was merely first to the market with it. ”

What other GM companies have been developing torque-vectoring AWD?

mike saunders
Member
4 years 10 months ago

Haldex worked with with Saab and GM-Eu, and Saab got first crack at Haldex’s version of torque vectoring one model year before Opel…and the Buick Regal.

But Nissan, Mitsubishi, and Honda all developed similar systems around the same time, or before.

Swade
Member
4 years 10 months ago
A little bit of XWD history to add to this part of the discussion…… The guy responsible for the development and implementation of XWD into Saab (and de-facto into GM’s FWD platforms, which Saab had responsibility for) was a Saab guy named Peter Johansson. Peter was a part-time rally driver growing up and he and his father developed AWD systems at home during the 80s to use in their rallying adventures. The ‘Sigge Johansson differential’ was tried out in the Saab 9000 but not brought to serial production. They later sold a system they had developed to Haldex, around 1987.… Read more »
davidgmills
Member
4 years 10 months ago

The new Caddy for more US competition.

davidgmills
Member
4 years 10 months ago

Epsilon II platform and I guess with similar 9-5 dimensions though i don’t know for sure yet.

Troels, Denmark
Member
4 years 10 months ago

So ugly that it almost hurts my eyes..

ivo 71
Member
4 years 10 months ago

Two souls, one thought…

Ivo

davidgmills
Member
4 years 10 months ago

I put up a picture so that some of you guys could have it for a screen-saver.

davidgmills
Member
4 years 10 months ago

It is no 9-5 that is for sure. Cadillac styling for the last ten years or so has just been awful with that angular shit.

davidgmills
Member
4 years 10 months ago

By that I mean more awful than normal.

spacy
Guest
4 years 10 months ago

No wonder GM are trying to do away with Saab…..

davidgmills
Member
4 years 10 months ago

First shoot all the bankers, then the Cadillac designers next.

Quixcube
Member
4 years 10 months ago
Bingo. I’d imagine that GM wants to send quite a few of these to China to join arms with the Lacrosse. Saab’s spot seems to have been taken while they were busy looking under the cushions for money. Suddenly it’s easier to see why GM prefers that Saab go away. They have plans for the IP that formerly went into the 9-5 and no interest in seeing a Caddy/Buick sibling wearing another company’s badge on the market in China now or in the future. So, can Saab make a go of anything without GM IP? The consensus here seems to… Read more »
ThomasJ
Member
4 years 10 months ago

With that front it will win Truck of the Year.

Chicago Swede
Member
4 years 10 months ago

Sorry, I don’t do bling.

davidgmills
Member
4 years 10 months ago

Maybe it comes in a blacked out version.

Chicago Swede
Member
4 years 10 months ago

Preferably an Invisible version.

spacy
Guest
4 years 10 months ago

.
Oh, you mean a car cover…..

Chicago Swede
Member
4 years 10 months ago

why waste a car cover when a paper bag would do just fine?

ivo 71
Member
4 years 10 months ago

That sure is one ugly automobile. Another would-be S Class Merc (almost as ugly) that just doesn’t make it.

Ivo

Jonas Axelsson
Member
4 years 10 months ago

Fast, ugly and get around The Ring faster than any Saab?

Sounds like my kind of girl.

There is more to performance than a pretty face. That ugly crest would take 5 minutes to strip off.

ivo 71
Member
4 years 10 months ago

Doesn’t make the thing any less ugly. And fast, sure, in a straight line. But there is more to a car than straightline performance. Does it stay on the road going through a really fast Z-curve? Most Caddies don’t.

Ivo

Jonas Axelsson
Member
4 years 10 months ago

The Caddy is cutting laps around Nurbruing at some wicked blistering times. The Ring ain’t a straight line. Read for content.

It will smoke any Sabb out there stock. Do not bring Per’s 800 horse $2 million Pikes Peak machine into this.

The Caddy is ugly, and it would be like being whooped by your sister. Hurts don’t it? 🙂

Tripod
Member
4 years 10 months ago
Not the least. But it did take quite some time, that old man’s car – ugly then, ugly now – isn’t known for being car that performs well when it’s a little more demanding track, in fact it’s not known for performance at all. But hey after, what, 100+ years, maybe they can come closer to the European competition. Let me guess, what did the Yankees do this time? The solution? A big big engine in the xts? American cars have been behind the other competitors the last 50 years or so, so it will be interesting to see what… Read more »
davidgmills
Member
4 years 10 months ago

That doesn’t mean it won’t cruise really nicely on US interstates where we commonly drive for ten hour stretches or more. And I had a 9-5 Aero that absolutely wrecked my back on the tar strips on a 16 hour trek from Albuquerque to Memphis. Handling twisty roads is grossly overrated in the states IMHO, kinda like active safety.

This car will be serious competition for the 9-5 in the US and especially because Cadillac’s dealer network is about 1000 times as good as Saab’s here, which is really getting almost nil.

zippy
Member
4 years 10 months ago

I have to agree with the comment on TG that the Chinese and Saab must have know that GM wasnt going to agree to any of this. GM played a blinder and finally killed off Saab with very little blood on their hands.

Its a very sad time indeed. 🙁

kochje
Member
4 years 10 months ago

Good comment; GM did know this from the beginning and the Swedish Government just helped by keeping quite and not standing on the barricades to stop this from happening.

Nils Gustavson
Member
4 years 10 months ago

I personally dislike GM and wish that they’d have no-part in Saab and let Saab live on to be saved one way or another. I think that GM did nothing more than ruin Saab’s good name and reputation, then wash there hands of the brand when it wasn’t profitable any longer. It’s like GM just want’s to slowly torture a brand that’s fighting to stay alive. I think the Chinese did good with Volvo and if given the oppertunity they can do the same for Saab and also continue to build them in Sweden.

Chicago Swede
Member
4 years 10 months ago

Thank you. I couldn’t agree with you more! While not a SAAB, the new Volvo S60 is a very appealing entry in the automotive marketplace. I find it to be a very compelling vehicle and am pleased to see Volvo doing so well in the US. Now if only we could be so lucky…

mike saunders
Member
4 years 10 months ago

The bigger question is whether Saab would have lived at all if not bought by GM. Saab’s “good name and reputation” never translated into sales, and Saab was never willing or able to update body styles and models fast enough to remain competitive. Using a two-stroke engine while the rest of the planet used 4-strokes? Using a weak longitudinal engine/transverse transmission setup that dated from the ’60s well into the early ’90s? Those were all pre-GM blunders.

GM’s biggest failing was in allowing Saab to continue to kill itself with bad decisions.

More than anything, GM is guilty of neglect.

Chicago Swede
Member
4 years 10 months ago

and Volvo was always the leading edge of technology?

Tripod
Member
4 years 10 months ago

I don’t think we can blame them with that, no; they used push rod-engines well into modern times.

Tripod
Member
4 years 10 months ago
Well, during the early convertible years I think they sold more than some other brands’ convertibles combined such as BMW and Audi, the Saab convertible was really hot then, even if it had a longitudinal engine… They have had problems sometimes, building on one success to another. (The two-stroke engines was of course a result of the post war situation 1947-1950, later on they had quite some success with them, to say the least, one also has to remember that when it started it wasn’t meant to go on for years.) I’m not going to argue, but GM could have… Read more »
SAABfansince14
Member
4 years 10 months ago
This is a chance/need for Saab to dump GM with the new chinese investors, and start from Phoenix(which can be produced without GM IP). Have the JC 900 (9-3) start Saab over, and fill a niche similar to how Mini only started with one very successful model design and then built other models on it. It more adequately represents a rebirth of a design language and Saab creates an identity it can sell sans-GM. With the money saved by only producing one model, have full-blown advertising of this single new GM-free car with the best of everything (BMW engine, Saab… Read more »
davidgmills
Member
4 years 10 months ago

Dream on. Find a $1Billion lying around somewhere with nothing to do and make our dreams come true.

Mark
Member
4 years 10 months ago

How would the dealers survive in the meantime? Saab almost certainly has to transition away from GM, but it can only be gradual.

davidgmills
Member
4 years 10 months ago
OK guys. Could someone enlighten me about Opel vs. Saab. We almost never had Opels in the US, except rarely we got some rebadged ones as Cadillacs or Saturns. So in Europe, I gather Opel’s reputation is not that good, which is surprising since it is German. So if Saab still has a good reputation in Europe and Opel doesn’t, why didn’t GM push the Saab brand in Europe? When GM sold Saab several years ago and owner financed the deal, that essentially gave GM the right to take Saab back if the venture failed. I have always wondered whether… Read more »
spacy
Guest
4 years 10 months ago

Re; owner financed the deal

I don’t see/have not seen GM act as to take Saab back…

Re: could it merge Saab and Opel

Are you suggesting Opel cars, are rebadged as ‘Saab’?.

davidgmills
Member
4 years 10 months ago

Not suggesting anything.

I just wonder if GM’s best move is to take Saab back. Work a deal with Chinese partners to manufacture and sell in China. That seems more sensible than letting PangDa and Youngman have it.

But then GM would still have its European problems. What to do with Opel and Saab.

Mark
Member
4 years 10 months ago

If GM was to take Saab back, it would just be a continuation of brand dilution,stagnation and technology stripping that Saab suffered the past decade. In other words, a ‘lingering death’. I would not wish that on Saab. A clean death would be much preferable. Not that I think Saab will die. I still think it will survive in one form or another and I’m not about to give up on it yet.

davidgmills
Member
4 years 10 months ago

Not so sure about that. GM is very different now than it was two or three years ago. GM had nine different car companies in the US plus Opel and Vauxhall in Europe. The nine US companies are down to four. GM could concentrate on Saab much more this time around if it took Saab back and made it its premium European brand.

davidgmills
Member
4 years 10 months ago

Forgot Holden in Australia and who knows what in China. What GM really needs to do is go with a more global product with fewer divisions. They really could easily displace Buick with Saab in the US, since right now they really don’t have a performance sedan brand.

bpsorrel
Member
4 years 10 months ago

In Russia GM are doing very, very well with Deawoo-Chevrolet, another string to their ever growing bow in the BRIC economies. They did come unstuck with an alliance with Lada for the Chevrolet Niva. As my Russian father-in-law puts it – “It’s not a Niva and it’s not a Chevy. What the hell is it?! 😀

davidgmills
Member
4 years 10 months ago
News on the battery front. A new startup company in the US is making batteries out of salt, water, carbon and manganese. Extremely cheap materials and extremely long life batteries because the causticity is so low. What turned me on to this company was an article that claimed the battery would not be good for cars because it may turn out that the battery lasts too long. The battery could turn out to be so revolutionary that it could last a million miles. See aquionenergy.com Some real heavy hitters on the board of directors and some pretty good start up… Read more »
spacy
Guest
4 years 10 months ago

But why only ‘stationary energy storage applications’

davidgmills
Member
4 years 10 months ago

Good question but the battery in my car is stationary. Stays in the same place under the hood.

Tripod
Member
4 years 10 months ago

What has this to do with blog post?
(Apart some discussions in the periphery about US companies doing good or bad things.)

spacy
Guest
4 years 10 months ago

.
If you mean the subject of Batteries, then about as much as virtually all the other comments above.

davidgmills
Member
4 years 10 months ago

Actually not much except that Saab in the future, if there is a future, (which is what this post is all about) will certainly get in the hybrid business and I thought people might like to know there is a new battery that seems to show real prospect for the car industry in the not too distant future.

Iiari
Member
4 years 10 months ago

Can I ask a stupid question… Why are we hearing no outrage from Trollhattan on this? Why no thousands of employees protesting outside Trollhattan government offices? Why no personal tales of woe of Saab employees. Why does it feel to me like Saab, Trollhattan, and the Swedish citizenry in the area that would be affected are going to slaughter with a whimper?

spacy
Guest
4 years 10 months ago

.
Actually it’s not a stupid question atall…..

Excluding a few Saab employees that have popped up on here, there has been little to no comments from the 1000’s employee at Trollhattan.

SU + numerous other Saab sites have all talked about action ‘worldwide’, but not alot from THN.

I could not go to Oktoberfest [Octoberfest] in THN, but, again, not many comments about staff & hardly any from the 1000’s of employees.

We [as Saab owners] have & are doing our bit, but the staff stay silent, why is this……..??????

Perhaps, as a start, Saabworker, etc, could answer.

jond
Member
4 years 10 months ago
Probably because everyone is so completely powerless to do anything about it and time is so short. This appears to be all about GM’s relationship with the Chinese market, so the reality seems to be that Saab’s fate/future will now be decided between Detroit and, most likely, the Chinese NDRC. Youngman have presented their plans for Saab and GM need time to consider if there is any way that a deal could be structured around those plans to provide a net benefit at reasonable risk to them. If they think that the best solution might involve some other Chinese manufacturer… Read more »
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