Decision Week

On Sunday we got to report about a new deal that was negotiated in Stockholm between SWAN, Youngman and, as a new partner, a bank in China. Honestly I had expected more positive news yesterday but obviously not everything running smoothly.

There have already been reports that GM is not fond of that new plan, but if we listen carefully to James Cain we learn that no decision has been made on that new proposal. Actually he said that it has not been worked on. I’d believe that they are just not finished yet because such a plan may be a lot to read. So hold your horses about that one, James will surely inform us when they are done. Still, I hope it will be soon as time is running out.

Some may see that bank in China as a placeholder for Youngman, who may want to buy those shares in a few years time. May be true, and this is how those deals are often done. It should be ok for GM if the bank is in until GM’s license agreements run out. As I already said yesterday, the fact that then bank is above the 20% barrier should not matter because it is not a competitor, just a strategic investor.

Pang Da stated yesterday that they are not out of the game. I wonder why they were not included in the plan that surfaced on the weekend but maybe they could be the party in the game who can help to get all involved parties below those 20 % hurdle. Just a thought.

Other news stated that Guy Lofalk is about to end the reconstruction. Well, this may be nessesary if no money comes into Saab. Youngman is dedicated to inject enough cash to continue reconstruction and pay the wages but I can imagine that they wait for a positive sign from GM. They don’t want to sink even more money into Saab without seeing a chance to get the deal through. I don’t know if the NDRC told them to stop or if they are just cautious.

Either way – we need the plan to be approved by GM so that Youngman will inject the funding and reconstruction can continue. And it is needed now, not in a few weeks. Everybody has to be aware of that.

The other thing is the critics that arise when it comes to Lofalk. I’ve had my say on this, I’ll leave it here. Just: please Mr. Lofalk, pull yourself together, do your job and help to find a solution.

TurboLamko
Member
4 years 9 months ago

Very good written article mate 😀

Fingers crossed for the best though despite the negative news…

But why are the media writing that GM said NO to the new deal when James Cain told that they have only answered on the old proposal with 100% chinese ownership?? Confused…

Snowshoe
Member
4 years 9 months ago

Why not continue to continue to post FRIENDLY messages to GM facebook.
And best is if you also can write something interesting besides your plea. And of course a nice photo that you can rest your eyes on. Make it something also the non-saabers can enjoy. How a Saab saved you in an accident or prevented it is a good example.

Remember the word is FRIENDLY

Snowshoe
Member
4 years 9 months ago

Christmas theme is a thought

Tripod
Member
4 years 9 months ago

Santa Claus is coming to town, with his list (checking it twice) he’s gonna find out who’s naughty or nice.

Hear that Lofalk?
😀

As for the FB thing (I don’t use it); nice stories or comments can only be good; Saab has a history together with GM, there will be links between them for quite some time.

DUTCH900C
Member
4 years 9 months ago
till72, you wrote: “Some may see that bank in China as a placeholder for Youngman, who may want to buy those shares in a few years time. May be true, and this is how those deals are often done. It should be ok for GM if the bank is in until GM’s license agreements run out.” and now is my question: could it perhaps be that you also could have wrote “Pang Da” instead of “Youngman” ? The reason why i’m thinking that way, that it could perhaps could be Pang Da instead of Youngman, is that in some stories… Read more »
scmit02
Member
4 years 9 months ago

Any idea what the margins are for GM on the 9-4x? It seems like GM could make a better bottom line on this, than building their own. Reasoning: Saab pays GM to build the car, Saab gets all other expenses (warranty, servicing, etc). So to GM building the 9-4x is pure profit. If Saab survives and expands into China the 9-4x could be a major piece of the pie.

Does GM have stake like this in either the 9-3 or the 9-5? Just thinking what would make a deal look more favorable.

kochje
Member
4 years 9 months ago

In this whole decision it will not be the margin that is made by GM on the number of 9-4x’s manufactured; the license issue is much more important for them.It is the broad picture that counts here.

Kimberly
Member
4 years 9 months ago

The other thing is the critics that arise when it comes to Lofalk. I’ve had my say on this, I’ll leave it here. Just: please Mr. Lofalk, pull yourself together, do your job and help to find a solution.

Someone needs to inform him that reconstruction is not a synonym for deconstruction.

TurboLamko
Member
4 years 9 months ago

Fully agree!!

ryanonsrc
Member
4 years 9 months ago

+1

MrTinkertrain
Member
4 years 9 months ago

GM, please READ THE PROPOSAL FASTER!
🙂

ryanonsrc
Member
4 years 9 months ago

Seriously .. I know you guys are busy but this is fairly urgent 🙂

Irish Badger
Member
4 years 9 months ago

I still remain highly optimistic. This is just all the deal process working its inexorable way out. Hopefully we will have a final determination in the next 7-10 days and I can go back to my real life!

aop
Member
4 years 9 months ago

It apears that GM doesn’t support the new deal according to radio P4West

http://translate.google.be/translate?hl=fr&sl=sv&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fsverigesradio.se%2Fsida%2Fdefault.aspx%3Fprogramid%3D125

Probably we’ll get more details soon as of the “why”….

Peter, Sweden
Member
4 years 9 months ago

As long as SWAN and Youngman get more details it still could work out, as long as GM’s demands are way out of league.

aop
Member
4 years 9 months ago

It’s probably the “Chinese” bank that don’t like. And maybe the fact that they are paid off their prefered share and would have no word to say in the future if the Chinese try to use their IP.
Or maybe they don’t want any Chinese at all , be it bank or car company or whatever. But this would be really stupid.

Peter, Sweden
Member
4 years 9 months ago
You’re probably right. But it’s still weird – GM gets a proposal for a deal which pretty much is based on their own demands, but still they say no. You’d imagine that Spyker agreed on GM’s terms for a reason, crafting a way to freedom based on these regulations, already when the initial contracts were signed, and now all Swan gets is a big NO. I hope Swan gets in contact with GM with the question “What kind of deal can you support?” asap and gets back to the drawing board immediately, one last time. Now is the first time… Read more »
aop
Member
4 years 9 months ago

Let’s hope so.
Let’s hope they won’t say no to any plan. Considering they took a bit longer than what they used to to say No to this one, we can supose that they analysed it during that time, even though with the problems they currently have with the Volt and Opel, Saab is probably low priority.

TurboLamko
Member
4 years 9 months ago

And now TTELA.se wrote that GM won’t support the new deal either… 🙁

I hate GM!!!!

No it’s sadly time to say this: R.I.P Saab…

Snowshoe
Member
4 years 9 months ago

In a mail to P4 Väst (a radio station in the region around Trollhättan) GM says that they do not support the latest proposal
The text is only a few lines long and ends with

“Nothing in the proposal makes GM to change its position” says James Cain

Swedish
http://sverigesradio.se/sida/artikel.aspx?programid=125&artikel=4842413

Snowshoe
Member
4 years 9 months ago

I must be slow at typing :-/
Two posts before mine…..

tomas
Member
4 years 9 months ago

RIP Saab, what a shame :/

julie@KellySAAB
Member
TurboLamko
Member
4 years 9 months ago

I was positive before but now…

Alexandros
Member
4 years 9 months ago
scand
Member
4 years 9 months ago

Dont think so, somehow. Its too late now, and there have been too many “plan B’s”

Red J
Member
4 years 9 months ago

I don’t know if there is a plan B, but at list they try.

http://ttela.se/ekonomi/saab/1.1456423-muller-det-finns-alltid-en-plan-b-

Ronnie_Rad
Member
4 years 9 months ago

Saab GB won’t survive another round of negotiations, neither will the salaries or GL.

We are down to the last grain of sand. Time is running out.

aop
Member
4 years 9 months ago

One thing we’ve learned with Saab is that is not over until it’s over.
That may look like THAT moment, but let’s not already burry Saab before bankruptcy will be a acted.
Victor Muller is the last moment deal man, he’ll probably sort this out with GM in a gentlemenish way. I hope at least.

jouni72
Member
4 years 9 months ago

In TTELA, VM is working already now with plan B (includes still Youngman). This guy doesn´t give up!!! Go Victor!

michaelb
Member
4 years 9 months ago

Positive: Fast response
Negative: No. GM would better explain to VM, why no, and if at all, what would change their mind. If no detailed explanation, GM wants Saab let go bankrupt.
Still the impression: The deal was not properly prediscussed with GM, therefore the no. From A-Z amateurish from VM’s side.
Possible reaction: GL will end reconstruction, as there is nothing in sight.
Now things must go fast, otherwise …

lundin
Member
4 years 9 months ago

Sorry but i think asking GM, IF and HOW can we accomplish this deal so everyone is satisfied is non-valid. It doesn’t exist in these world-class negotiations.It would be like cheating,to simple,too straightforward.

unbelievable!

Peter, Sweden
Member
4 years 9 months ago

Now sure is also the time for North Street Capital to show what they really meant with that “We will be standing by to help Saab if they need it”-quote…?

This is btw the second time GM is ruining the holiday season for thousands and thousands of workers in Trollhättan. They aren’t just blocking a deal, they’re also blocking the whole future for an entire town.

But hey, it’s not over until it’s over. We’ve been hearing “RIP Saab” for like 900 times during the last two years and no one has been right about it this far — why start now?

TurboLamko
Member
4 years 9 months ago

But it looks more black now then it was earlier… 🙁 Sadly

Kimberly
Member
4 years 9 months ago

> This is btw the second time GM is ruining the holiday season for thousands and thousands of workers in Trollhättan. They aren’t just blocking a deal, they’re also blocking the whole future for an entire town.

That’s never stopped GM from closing plants or even entire divisions before. Why should it stop them now?

scand
Member
4 years 9 months ago

I have never met a PE outfit ‘that stands by waiting to offer help if they need it’.

They are generally more proactive than that. Especially if the target co is in dire straits.

saaburban
Member
4 years 9 months ago
What GMs no means is that Saab might only have another 12 hours before the court opens in vänersborg. Who will be first at the doors, Saab submitting the letter where Guy lofalk is relieved of his duties and replaced….. Or guy himself will be first declaring Saab bankrupt. Victor has 12h to get, Pangda, Youngman, or Northstreet Capital to pay the wages, that’s the only other way to stop Guy. (CLEPA might also play a minor part in all of this) What is the Swedish government doing now.. Nothing, maybe they are preparing to be the new owner of… Read more »
saabserb
Member
4 years 9 months ago

OK now we know that GM will probably now allow even 1% to Youngman. There must be some way to go around this problem? Any people here knowing the sitting on company construction knowledge? Is it possible for Youngman to not own any part of SAAB/SWAN and still be involved in the company decision making and invest money in it? A kind of 3-years freeze, and later buying SAAB for fixed price? Sorry if this is just rubbish talk, but some kind of magic must happen now.

hilmar
Member
4 years 9 months ago

I fear GM don´t want Saab to survive. They sold it in 2009 with the idea the brand will die soon and now Saab “unfortunately” is still alive. Fear of competition, lack of interest, whatever the reason for GM´s behavior will be. To be honest, GM is not really interested to sell some parts to Saab if GM can sell a few of their own cars instead. As sad as it is. I wonder which contract they would sign, likely one which will permanently keep Saab in a weak position, I suppose.

Troels, Denmark
Member
4 years 9 months ago

I normally wont contribute to conspiracy-theories, but , could it be that GL have been talking to GM about not to say yes to a deal including VM – according to SweGov ???????

JMart007
Member
4 years 9 months ago

+1

Petteri
Member
4 years 9 months ago

I’ve thought about that a lot during the last 24 hrs, but didn’t want to contribute to those theories either. I’m glad someone else did, though.

julian ross
Member
4 years 9 months ago
One can hardly expect a company based in a rental office block to provide the millions needed to “save” Saab as it currently stands. As can be seen numerous times over the last few months talk is indeed cheap! Not only are there no parts , or even car being produced, but here in the UK the dealers are also failing at an alarming rate. Not only have Saab GB’s own sites been threatened (well Fulham has actually been closed) but Adrian Smith in Aberdeen are also closing their doors this week. I am aware that most of the main… Read more »
Snowshoe
Member
4 years 9 months ago
Time for some swedish government initiative maybe, it might be too late though GM says they cannot stomach the idea of having its technique used by the chinese. I think it is more a matter of blocking other manufacturers in China. But what if it would be possible to have a delayed sale to the chinese via the swedish government. For a period of say 5 years Sweden takes ownership of Saab and the chinese pays the bills. No production in china of cars based upon the GM platforms. No transfer of GM design knowhow to China. When Phoenix is… Read more »
Snowshoe
Member
4 years 9 months ago

If someone has the ears of someone that matters, please feel free to forward

DUTCH900C
Member
4 years 9 months ago

WEEHEEEE!!, what a sad but, perhaps, expected news!!

http://ttela.se/ekonomi/saab/1.1456340-gm-vi-kan-inte-stodja-affaren-

And for a translation you use: http://translate.google.nl/?hl=nl&tab=wT#sv|en| .

Quixcube
Member
4 years 9 months ago
It seems that Saab will not get to keep its current licensing from GM. Now is probably the time to stop wasting energy in that direction and ask “So what does Saab have without GM that is attractive to an investor?” Is that plan B? But does any party now value Saab-without-GM-technology enough to pay off its debts and help it with 3 to 5 years of development costs? If Youngman/Pang Da were serious about a long term venture and not just getting GM technology then they should be willing to go forward anyway. I wonder if the NDRC will… Read more »
scmit02
Member
4 years 9 months ago

How did this work with Geely and Volvo? I thought I read somewhere that Volvo had no Ford technology at the time of sale, but they continued to build the same cars without interruption.

Wasn’t Saab in an agreement with BMW for engines a year or so back?

Irish Badger
Member
4 years 9 months ago
Here are 2 thoughts (admittedly negative – would only be used in the event of not reaching a deal with GM and the collapse of Saab): 1. If VM has presented a change of control within the terms of his agreements with GM, are GM entitled to say “No”? There could be a big law suit out of this – problem is that it wouldn’t be resolved for 5-10 years and Saab would be gone. GM have probably done the calculus on this and are willing to live with it and hopefully pay off a token some to some trustee… Read more »
i. ant. kal.
Member
4 years 9 months ago

🙁

CSD_ChineseSaabDriver
Member
4 years 9 months ago
Gentlemen: Since GM constantly makes trouble to the deal, so my prediction of the progress will be: Chinese companies will not just retreat, they will from now on act as INVESTOR to SWAN, pomping in billions euro’s, while VM or some other one being the CEO of the new SWAN. SWAN still has rights to build Saab cars based on GM tech, but in the coming 3 years with Chinese money SAAB will give full gas in developing new models, the new Phoenix platforms, when the new models are ready, kick GM out of boat, Saab becomes 100% independent, entering… Read more »
Patrik B
Member
4 years 9 months ago

I still think that the best way to fund Saab is to actually buy the cars and in that case I think that Pang Da would be a better partner.

Time will tell.

saabdealer
Member
4 years 9 months ago
Marketing, brand awareness, and maximizing product with respect to pricing value and features / aesthetics, is the solution to rebuilding the brand. I can’t see Youngman investing the kind of money to prop up Saab without having some contractual ownership stake. I would love to see your plan materialize as it is, in my opinion, about the only way Saab can work with GM. I firmly believe GM will kill any deal that has one tiny bit of china-market access via auto manufacturer. Having said that, when / where did I read that Victor said GM was okay with the… Read more »
hilmar
Member
4 years 9 months ago

Are you sure that would work ? No wishful thinking, might it be realistic ? I would like to kick out GM etc.

Baver
Member
4 years 9 months ago

Whatever works to save this great company,

BarryMemphis
Member
4 years 9 months ago

Although there is, at this point only a small chance of GM approving ANYTHING put forth by Saab, it has been confirmed that GM did say “NO” to the new plan. However, “talks continue” between Saab and GM. What I would interpret this to mean is that there is another structure being discussed inclusive of ‘other’ investors (perhaps NSC). This is all so very sad and unnecessary.

dezzer
Member
4 years 9 months ago
HERE IS MY MESSAGE TO GM AND ALL CONCERNED:- Over the past few months, there has been millions of words spoken and written about SAAB and take over /buy out’s. Everyone on this forum has there own idea how this is going to end up. about a 100 different idea’s to date…..GM you are messing about with a lot of lives, not just SAAB workers in Sweden, but dealers, distributers all around the world. They have a life, families and futures just like your boardroom do. They wont have if you dont let SAAB go, Let SAAB get on with… Read more »
Peter, Sweden
Member
4 years 9 months ago
Is it possible, as ChineseSaabDriver implies, for Youngman to only be an investor, as long as Swan and Youngman have some kind of internal deal/agreement about the future of Saab? Would this be enough for the NDRC, you think? Would they allow Youngman to invest in Swan, is Youngman was to get access to the expertise of Saab and all what it’s worth? Does Youngman really have to _own_ a part of Saab to get a benefit of Saab, or is investing enough as long as Swan and YM internally agrees about, well, everything? I get it that YM needs… Read more »
henli1970
Member
4 years 9 months ago
I do not know what to say any longer. Is GM really that afraid of not being competitive that and actually think that they compete with the same customers? What is it that they are protecting, really?. The platforms we actually are talking about here is probably 3 years old and started to be developped 3-4 years before that. This is really ages in this type of industry and before things are settled in Saab, production is up running and distrubution up to speed the Epsilon II platform , and Theta (modified) which I think that 9-4X is orginating from… Read more »
hilmar
Member
4 years 9 months ago

You are right. GM need to cling to their license because they are not able to develop new technology ?! Again this company seems to show the same bad image to the customers they did in 2009.

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