GM: No.

That’s the news in from pretty much everywhere at this point, Swedish Radio, TTela, and directly from Victor. Sorry if this is short as I’m writing this post from a phone.

Here’s what we know:

  • NSC was contacted to see if they would still be part of a share agreement that GM is comfortable with, all indications are that they’re done.
  • Multiple sources tell us that Youngman is trying to set up a deal where they take convertible preference shares and are allowed to inject liquidity into Saab for a period of time until Saab can be GM-IP free. It might look something like the current GM shares.

What happens next is anyone’s guess. This deal went from being manageable to insane, and we’re now in very murky waters. I’m not optimistic, but until Victor gives up trying, Saab lives another day. Hope for the best, prepare for the worst.

dezzer
Member
4 years 9 months ago

oh s…

saabdealer
Member
4 years 9 months ago

“■NSC was contacted to see if they would still be part of a share agreement that GM is comfortable with, all indications are that they’re done”
As in they’re done with trying to help Saab?
I think the answer to Saab’s survival lies somewhere / somehow in China. Good or bad.

djfk
Member
4 years 9 months ago

Who would like to see GM’s interests on the Chinese market?
Watch here

CSD_ChineseSaabDriver
Member
4 years 9 months ago

Damm got to say it’s a damn good video

Henrik B.
Member
4 years 9 months ago

Looks like they learned from the Saab Performance Team – and then upped it a notch….

Cheers!

hilmar
Member
4 years 9 months ago

Good video with ugly cars – now it´s time for the Saab Performance Team.

Peter, Sweden
Member
4 years 9 months ago

Convertible preferences + Youngman sounds like a reasonable idea that just might work, and that is also an answer to my “can YM invest in Saab without really owning part of it?”-question from the comments in another thread.

Amazing to see how that famous Spyker/Swan-tenacity managed to leave its trace on Youngman as well 🙂

jouni72
Member
4 years 9 months ago

🙂

ssch
Member
4 years 9 months ago
I would not lose hope yet. The right price to pay for saab is not one that includes all of these debts. Buying the saab name and some of the tooling when they are in the final stages of bankruptcy seems to be the only way that they can survive. As painful as it is, I think the 9-5 should be abandoned as wit would have been (and is) a slow selling vehicle. The 9-3 is the only vehicle they can sell in any volume – and that is where all of the value is in saab – especially during… Read more »
Snowshoe
Member
4 years 9 months ago

The brand name would probably not survive a bankruptcy. Scania and Saab that makes airplanes will most probably not allow a new legal entity to use the brand.

Angelo V.
Member
4 years 9 months ago

Do you think they would consider licensing the name if the price was right?

zippy
Member
4 years 9 months ago

I will comment once something is official. This saga is every bit as good as those told bythe Vikings 1000 years ago.

Khrisdk
Member
4 years 9 months ago

When I discussed with TimR in the forum regarding Youngmans interest and said:

“Youngman will probably bend as much as needed to go through with the deal.”

I didn’t expect that I would have to admit admit that they actually now apparently will go even further than I expected.
They really want their Saab

maanders
Member
4 years 9 months ago

Maybe they read Swade’s famous article, “I Want the Saab.”

skwdenyer
Member
4 years 9 months ago

Hmm, I’m unclear as to what was in the deal that has been turned down. If it is as reported, I can only imagine that the concern was over the potential future behaviour of the Chinese Bank.

So what now? Would preference shares require GM approval? If not, and they are just a debt instrument, presumably GM could not object now, but only if they were to be exercised.

If so, that sounds ideal to me. Can’t they just do it? 🙂

maanders
Member
4 years 9 months ago

So did GM say anything about why they still say, “No”? I thought the sticking point was shares above 20% by new owners in China. If even that is not good/safe enough for them, is there any ownership change they will accept?

saabfanatic
Member
4 years 9 months ago

gm won’t approve any Chinese ownership period – that’s a fact! They don’t want other palyers so they can sell thier crapy cars in China the biggest car market in the world at the moment.

krghanta
Member
4 years 9 months ago

I think u are right. GM hates the Chinese and the Russians. Try another car company that GM and the Swedish govt will not object too. Mahindra may be a better bet.

Quijote
Member
4 years 9 months ago

FUGM

Aero1
Member
4 years 9 months ago

X10

edusaab
Member
4 years 9 months ago

Saab never will be free………if it isn’t GM, it will be another……this is a big shame!!

Irish Badger
Member
4 years 9 months ago
I live in Detroit and the arrogance, ignorance and overall incompetence of the car companies here is unbelievable. People here (with the odd exception) simply don’t appreciate that there is a big world out there. I don’t find it hard to believe that they would place very little value on their partnership with the “odd” Saab (to quote that old turnip Bob Lutz). American cars generally suck (they are big, ugly, not fuel-efficient, can’t corner worth a damn, and seem to value beefy domination as a style aesthetic. There is more fun to be had in a sporty little european… Read more »
Baver
Member
4 years 9 months ago

+1

CSD_ChineseSaabDriver
Member
4 years 9 months ago

If someone starts to take over GM, that would be really great

Aero1
Member
4 years 9 months ago

Yeah worked for SAAB under GM in the beginning, they sucked then and now, well they just plain SUCK! I want my tax money back!

Angelo V.
Member
4 years 9 months ago
I was about to write a rebuttal to this, because I am proud to be American and have owned some decent Detroit cars in the past—-then I thought about it—-re-read it—-and you’re mostly right. I hate to say it, but you’re mostly right. I will say this though, the Japanese cars those pseudo-intellectuals on the coasts are driving genrally bore me to tears. They are appliances, with bland, generic EVERYTHING. In that regard, I’d rather some of the Detroit offerings, which at least take a chance every now and then. Also, you are remiss in laying this off a dying… Read more »
henli1970
Member
4 years 9 months ago
I post this here as well: I do not know what to say any longer. Is GM really that afraid of not being competitive that and actually think that they compete with the same customers? What is it that they are protecting, really?. The platforms we actually are talking about here is probably 3 years old and started to be developped 3-4 years before that. This is really ages in this type of industry and before things are settled in Saab, production is up running and distrubution up to speed the Epsilon II platform , and Theta (modified) which I… Read more »
Audun
Member
4 years 9 months ago

+1

CSD_ChineseSaabDriver
Member
4 years 9 months ago

Well writen

TukanSaab
Member
4 years 9 months ago
They won’t sell to the Chinese because of the IP issue. Full stop. The platfroms may have been developed 4 years ago but in reality platforms do get used for a loong time once the investment is made. As an example, the new 3 series from BMW, while all new, is still largely based on the e90 platform. The same goes for the Audi A4. So why would GM, having invested heavily in Epsilon II hand it over to the Chinese for the sake of saving Saab??? You must get your head out of the Saab clouds and think like… Read more »
Red J
Member
4 years 9 months ago

Don’t know about the Beemer, but the A4 is based on a new platform compared to the prior generation.
Eps I was not based on 2900 and eps II is a highly (improved) changed Eps I.
So despite GM will start the XTS next year based on a 3-4 old platform, the Eps III (or whatever it is) won’t be just an evolution of the Eps I.

TukanSaab
Member
4 years 9 months ago
Yes but you are getting caught up in the marketing lingo….the IP that goes in to these designs and processes are interwoven throughout….the Eps III will very likely borrow significantly from Eps II. Regardless of how it is labelled, GM has a tonee of IP in the platforms from the floor pan to the wiring, to the integration of systems in these vehicles that they would be foolish to throw in to the hands of the Chinese. I think Ford and Volvo was different in that Ford had adopted Volvo platforms and technology wholesale when it started to use them.… Read more »
henli1970
Member
4 years 9 months ago
When Volvo was sold to Ford the IP rights at that time was most likely in that deal since AB Volvo did not really have any use of it for the remaining business for trucks, excavators , dumpers, marine engines etc. Then the current plaforms that was actually in production when Volvo Cars was sold to China was actually base on European Ford platforms (same as Mondeo for S80/V70/XC70, S60/V60/XC60 and Focus for the S40/V50/C30). The exception was only the XC90 with is still on the old Volvo P2 platform (if I remember the name correctly). There must have been… Read more »
Red J
Member
4 years 9 months ago

Tukan,
Fords C platform (Focus, C30, S40, V50) was developed by Ford the C/D Platform (Mondeo, V70, S80) was developed by Volvo.
Volvo is still quite dependent on Ford IP, at least till they develop SPA and ENV.
Eps III is the name I’ve given to the kid, it may be something completely different if GM decides to go the same way as most of the brands today, and unite their Delta and Epsilon and Theta(ThetaEps) platforms into a more flexible one like the phoenix.

Dreadnought
Member
4 years 9 months ago
The platform used for the Mondeo, Volvo S60, Range Rover Evoque, etc. is EUCD, it is a stretched version of the C1 platform (Focus, etc). It was developed mostly by Ford with some input by Volvo. No this is just GM being GM, i.e. GM being “your favorite unpleasant invective here”. The IP issue is just a red herring. Ford treated Volvo decently; GM has had nothing but contempt for Saab and its customers. http://marioso.net/latest-car-news/saabsunited/ny-teknik-saab-had-to-foot-the-bill-for-the-bls.html When I bought my Saab I was a GM customer, not a Saab fan, looking to have his cake and eat it too (buy a… Read more »
henli1970
Member
4 years 9 months ago
The platform as such was not developed 4 years ago I am pretty sure. The 9-5 went into production in 2010 (one year delayed) and if I remember correctly the Opel Insignia as launched in 2008, and the work was started probably 3-4 years before that. I see what you says as well and in some sence I agree and the platforms last for quite some time eventhough they are more or less revised during the lifecycle It is also true that even at new models some major parts could or are kept and just modified to meet the modified… Read more »
adspringer80
Member
4 years 9 months ago

We want to set up more worldwide rallies, this coming Sunday the 11th. We need help organizing the events. They can be any time any place. The theme is “We Support Victor”. No GM bashing but we need to send the message strong and clear, that we’re not going away, and that GM needs to allow Saab to continue on their own terms. We ask that you take photos/videos to post here on Saabs United, and also alert your local media to have the event covered. More details coming soon!

Remdu67
Member
4 years 9 months ago

I have read on TTELA tonight for a meeting on the 11th. A world wide meeting? Any date, any place, I am in to support Saab!

adspringer80
Member
4 years 9 months ago

What is the link to that, I want to post it on Facebook. We’re planning on Sunday, December 11th. We’re asking groups to come together and create their own events. You can decide exact time and place.

74StingSaab
Member
4 years 9 months ago

I’m with Victor…. and all my friends in Trollhättan…..

turbokalle
Member
4 years 9 months ago

I remember this state of mind I`m in from more or less exactly two years ago. However, I still belive in a positive outcome. Who would have guessed though that we were to fight governments, huge banks, Chinese authorities and the worlds biggest car manufacturer (?) along the way?! When this is over I would not object if Saab called one of their models Goliath.

turbokalle
Member
4 years 9 months ago

*David

CSD_ChineseSaabDriver
Member
4 years 9 months ago

I just have the feeling, that Saab will survive.

Hey man I will fight with you to the bitter or good end, because I am a proud Saab Driver 🙂

dezzer
Member
4 years 9 months ago

+1

turbokalle
Member
4 years 9 months ago

+1

hilmar
Member
4 years 9 months ago

I´ll try to get your feeling. 🙂

Aero1
Member
4 years 9 months ago

I Bleed Griffin!

JB
Member
4 years 9 months ago

I live on Cape Cod Massachsetts and in September I hosted a group of 40 from the Detroit area. They were stunned to see how many of our cars were not American brands. i.e. GM, Ford. I didn’t want to say that the foreign cars are better, but my saying it wasn’t necessary. The US manufacturers are so far behind the Japanese, Germans and Swedes. All GM is thinking is CYA. Cover your —. Disgusting and depressing. 2004 9-3 ARC vert.

David Robert
Member
4 years 9 months ago

even here in the boonies, hill towns of western mass, imports out number domestics easily

quickbird
Member
4 years 9 months ago

So we can see that, it is not the IP problem, it is GM doesn’t want Saab to survive… WTF…

900 classic cab
Guest
4 years 9 months ago

+1

Kimberly
Member
4 years 9 months ago

It is a real shame the new 9-3 with the hybrid eAWD tech won’t see the light of day. 🙁

hilmar
Member
4 years 9 months ago

Perhaps all this mess is only a power-struggle between three ore four men and their ego. Imagine – three or four women – they would have talked, drank their Prosecco and the deal would be perfect. Okay,okay, a bit of topic. 😉

exsaab
Member
4 years 9 months ago

This is all making sense to me now. GM lets Saab die, ends its own final use of Epsilon chassis, then sells the old tech onto China who then do exactly what they did with old 9-5 under a new name! Quids in all round, except for Saab!

orion
Member
4 years 9 months ago

I cannot imagine a live without Saab, and i believe Saab will never die, do you?

elantiq11
Member
4 years 9 months ago
Irish Badger
Member
4 years 9 months ago

I just wonder how long the Chinese will accept being a dumping ground for second rate cars and a second rate brand? As they evolve and come into the “first world” (from the “second”) I hope that their tastes will evolve.

CSD_ChineseSaabDriver
Member
4 years 9 months ago

China is also the No1 or No2 largest market for all luxurary brands like BMW, Audi, MB, Porsche etc.

Chinese version Buick is way better than those in America, I see them often, they do look great and drive good.

Irish Badger
Member
4 years 9 months ago
I hear what you say about the Buick. I find the new Regal half way attractive. Its ironic, however, that it relies on European Heritage – Opel (and Saab) for its creation and was originally designed for the Saturn brand here in the US. GM chose instead to dump Saturn (just at the point they were making halfway decent cars) and protect “Buick”??? In the US Buick is the brand for 80 year old retirees who live in Florida and couldn’t afford a Cadillac. They somehow remember it being luxurious in the 1930s on their way to ordering matzoh ball… Read more »
michaelb
Member
4 years 9 months ago

They are big and very succesful in China, but Saab/YM would not represent a competition and certainly not eat into their mass market segment. Competition will come from big established carmakers there, VW, Toyota, the Koreans, Ford, whoever. My feeling is there is something else, what they care about, maybe they have an own plan with Saab/ Saab technology whatever.

Turboladdade
Member
4 years 9 months ago

Everyone check out GM’s Facebook wall… a movement is afoot! Join it!

Turboladdade
Member
4 years 9 months ago
OH
Member
4 years 9 months ago

U.S.A is a protectionist country. GM is a company out of this format. GM does not believe in themselves they believe neither in their own products. Ford had no problem when Volvo was bought by Geely. A company that GM exists only for the Chinese are pumping loan money to the U.S. so that they meet their public expenditure. GM believe in yourself and your products, love the competition that will develop you.

hilmar
Member
4 years 9 months ago

GM fears the competition because they are not able to compete. Look at these cars …

BTG88
Member
4 years 9 months ago

That’s a little over the top – the US is a far more open market than most around the world. Certainly more so than both China and Korea, which are heavily protected, especially with respect to the automotive industry.

Darryl
Member
4 years 9 months ago

uuurgh…. We need a hug….
This is insane.
To all my dealer friends; stand tall – you’ve done nothing wrong. In fact our skills to operate a difficult franchise will do you wonders in the future.

I only wish it was what we all knew it should have been.

Until its official, never give up hope!

DC

JasonPowell
Member
4 years 9 months ago

Thanks Darryl

paddan
Member
4 years 9 months ago

Even if Youngman bought out GM’s preferred shares, its IP agreements may prevent the deal from happening.

Dejjo
Member
4 years 9 months ago

Well this blows!

Give up on GM, shut Saab down until the Phoenix architecture is ready to go into production. who would know the differens?

CSD_ChineseSaabDriver
Member
4 years 9 months ago

Maybe that’s the way to go.

Invest into future.

per
Member
4 years 9 months ago

Have no words. Not a GM fan right now, thas for sure.

i. ant. kal.
Member
4 years 9 months ago

build the 93 griffin…. and forget the rest…
get the phoenix done asap
and start the 91 93 94 95 96 97 thing…
i will miss the convertible….

probably the ng 95 will be the most rare saab ever….

i. ant. kal.
Member
4 years 9 months ago

ah oh i forgot…
and before that say FUGM
we don’t need your stuff that you make money with

and i will miss the current conv. .. well i’ll wait for the next one…

gpg41
Member
4 years 9 months ago
In my opinion GM would never approve another company acquiring Saab, even if it was a European Company. Saab has been producing Automobiles for over 60 years, therefore they will always be in competion with GM because that is their business. The IP thing is a real myth, as was previously stated Saab is using 3-4 year old technology, but constructing a very good product. When some of the car magazine made statements that the Saab products were superior to GM’s, such as the 9-4X compared to the Cadillac, then GM probably did not like the end results. My feeling… Read more »
OH
Member
4 years 9 months ago

GM is a coward business. Continue and place the Chevrolet brand of Daewoo cars. I will never consume your products and will advise all others to do the same.

OH
Member
4 years 9 months ago

I love my Swedish Saab 9-5 2,3t tuned by BSR, and i will drive it until the end, (I love my Mitsubishi Evolution V 350hkp to).
GM cars??

Dejjo
Member
4 years 9 months ago

Is it just me or would the simplest thing be for youngman to take a 19,9 % stake, pang da 19,9 % and the chines bank 19,9 %? leaving 40,3 % for SWAN. the claus would not be activated and the production could get on the way.

paddan
Member
4 years 9 months ago

+1

Quijote
Member
4 years 9 months ago

+1

However, GM has many attorneys that will legally spin such clauses to their own advantage.

Remdu67
Member
4 years 9 months ago

Everybody, you tell me when it is time for a good world meeting. In THN things are moving for a meeting next saturday…

We discuss too much about numbers here, numbers we can hardly analyse as business man. We can still behave like customers, like Saab fans, like Saab enthousiasts, like Saab car lovers, like a community and organise a wolrdl meeting, don’t we?

OliverH
Member
4 years 9 months ago

It’s hard to say something political correct without having the right background information. What’s very clear right now:
It’s very political.
Therer were no real negotiations in front.
SWAN and the Administration are not working together.

To get an answer of GMs need in Saab:
– Are there still developments at Saab for GM?
– The preferred Saab shares belongs to the old or new GM?

In my opinion: GM get only over the Saab case if there’s some urgency/ need for them.

M.A.
Member
4 years 9 months ago

The only way I can describe the whole matter is: madness.
Just hoping VM and his team not only have Plan B, but till Plan Z.

hilmar
Member
4 years 9 months ago

Saab has the better engineering so GM is trembling. Good night folks.

Aero1
Member
4 years 9 months ago

I thought SAAB AB actually owns the name, had heard that they will not allow anyone else to use it?
T-shirts for Sundays Rally should be red and read FUGM!

paul
Member
4 years 9 months ago

Nulla tenaci invia est via – For the tenacious, no road is impassable.

Let’s cross our fingers and Griffin Up!

CSD_ChineseSaabDriver
Member
4 years 9 months ago
The real plan should be: PangDa focus on distributing current Saab cars made in Sweden in China, they can take some 40% upto 49% of the ownership of SWAN, YoungMan stays out of THIS deal. This should get certainly green light from GM. Youngman focus on the next generation Saabs (Phoenix etc) (hope the Phoenix is mostly GM independent and GM has no say on it), YM INVEST, and prepares establishing factories in China for the coming 3 years, and YM can make an internal deal with SWAN that after certain years YM can take some big chunk of shares… Read more »
CSD_ChineseSaabDriver
Member
4 years 9 months ago

OK:
The rights to the PhoeniX platform is 100% owned by Saab, but it uses some parts (less than 10%) that are bought from GM.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saab_PhoeniX

skn
Member
4 years 9 months ago

That is about the only plausible path unless VM has yet another option up his sleeve. He almost certainly does.

Toby K
Member
4 years 9 months ago
I have just got off the phone to most of my large extended family I spoke to around 100 folks-we’ve just had a baby girl. they know I like Saab having 4 on my drive its a topic of conversation-none of those 100 family members will ever buy a GM product ever again, I have asked them to tell all their friends. To that end my brother and father in law plus my dad who loves Saab and my best friend John who also likes Saab will next week all go an order a new Saab that we promise to… Read more »
CSD_ChineseSaabDriver
Member
4 years 9 months ago

Opel (under GM) this year alone already lost 1.6 billion USD

saabo
Member
4 years 9 months ago

Well done!

Marque
Member
4 years 9 months ago

Toby K – congratulations and wish a good health and much joy! Besides it is an astonishing achievement, Saab needs true soldiers as you are!!! I only have 2 Saabs in the garage and can’t afford to order a new, but if Saab makes it I swear I won’t have any other makes in my life!!!

Alexandros
Member
4 years 9 months ago

Congratulations, Toby K!

We are expecting our baby girl in February 2012! I am wishing so much that in 2012 I will be able to buy a second Saab, this time an 9-3 SportCombi for her and our lab dog!

There is not much space in our 9-3 Convertible for every one….

Dan P
Member
4 years 9 months ago

“Phoenix Edition Ng9-3 Aero 1.8 turbo e-AAM Hybrid”

Yes please. I’ll have mine in Fjord Blue, Parchment interior.

hogge
Member
4 years 9 months ago

Like I said before: stop production in Trollhättan until the new 9-3 is ready. Until then, import the Chinese made Saabs and perhaps have a short assembly line in Trollhättan where Saab fronts are bolted on to them.

CSD_ChineseSaabDriver
Member
4 years 9 months ago

But if we can keep the production running, the 3200 workers’ jobs can be saved, and they can work on new Saabs in the future. That’s why for the coming years I think Pangda should focus on distribution of current Saab cars and strike a deal with Swan.

Smithy
Member
4 years 9 months ago

Posted on GM’s wall:

Oh god, this situation is not what I expected… ;(

CSD_ChineseSaabDriver
Member
4 years 9 months ago

Great pic 🙂

krghanta
Member
4 years 9 months ago

WHY IS VM WASTING TIME WITH THE CHINESE. DAMNIT GO TO INDIA TRY INDIA!!!!!!!!!!!!!

kiriakos
Member
4 years 9 months ago

Invade the GM facebook page now. We can’t be passive anymore, time to be aggressive!
FUGM!

Snowshoe
Member
4 years 9 months ago
Letting youngman invest by proxy throught the swedish government could perhaps be the setup that GM cannot refuse. Accusing swegov for IPR hustling would be a non-starter I think. Let Swegow take over a part of Saab perhaps 51%. Make a deal with the chinese that they will pay for the costs the next 3-5 years. Production of GM-licensed will only be done in Trollhättan. When no more production of the old models is needed then the ownership can be transfered to china, SweGov will guarantee that the GM IPR is not transfered to China. When the Phoenix based models… Read more »
lundin
Member
4 years 9 months ago
Well, I suggested something similar some weeks ago (also read CSD_ChineseSaabDriver some posts above).However,the proxy/middle-man solution only overrides one non-valid solution and to be honest I am not sure they are, by law, allow to do it. To me,that is the same deal, just different packaging. It really boils down to this: We need GM to say IF a sale is even possible and if yes, how can IPR be protected (if a sale can be done then,like you suggested, we/they can probably come up with many good ideas on how to protect IPR). I think this can be solved… Read more »
CSD_ChineseSaabDriver
Member
4 years 9 months ago

The good thing is that after a few years Saab does NOT need GM anymore.

So we should focus on how to keep Saab in life for the coming 3 years.

Snowshoe
Member
4 years 9 months ago

It would give a fair amount of press coverage if GM says NO to the swedish government. I think they would at least think twice about it.
Swegov would be the protector of the IP

Snowshoe
Member
4 years 9 months ago

The SweGov proxy solution would have to be given OK by GM. That was my thought

Peter, Sweden
Member
4 years 9 months ago

Thanks for the info Jeff, really appreciate your knowledge and insight during these weird, weird times 🙂 No words about the promised YM-money to pay wages? I can’t imagine the tension in all affected families in Trollhättan…

Sue Esponte
Member
4 years 9 months ago
GM is not selling to the Chinese. I don’t understand why this is news to anyone. The 9-5 is built on existing GM architecture that is underlying extremely important cars for GM. They aren’t just handing that over to the Chinese. GM needs Buick in China more than they need their stock in Saab. Someone needs to turn off the ventilator. This is getting really painful to watch and shutting my eyes doesn’t change anything. It’s time to say our goodbyes. GM wrote off Saab a few years ago (some would say longer) when they first announced that they were… Read more »
Marque
Member
4 years 9 months ago

You may not get it, Saabing is a serious lifestyle for most of us here, so it is in no way about waking up! We couldn’t be awake any stronger as we are!

Sue Esponte
Member
4 years 9 months ago
It is about waking up. I’m not questioning your undying allegiance to the brand. I’m questioning some people’s ability to see the forest for the trees. GM has not changed its tune. The writing has, sadly, been on the wall for a long time. It’s been extremely painful to watch but I’m not surprised by any of the turns the news has taken. Am I upset? HELL YEAH! But, listening to excuse after excuse after excuse that is mired in flawed logic coming from people who must have their heads buried in the sand is growing old. There was no… Read more »
Marque
Member
4 years 9 months ago
I personally don’t need self styled messiah’s having the Sorcerer’s Stone to tell me what to do or not do in the given situation (a good few of this kind have been pushing the same conception through SU for quite a while now. Fact is that while they were tirelessly trying, they also got very tiresome. No, you don’t get a crumb of the whole picture, no matter what superior knowledge you claim is wafting your savvy. What do you think anyway – If Saab goes bust and some of us had “waken up” just before – uising your obsession… Read more »
Sue Esponte
Member
4 years 9 months ago
Your comment makes absolutely no sense. Where did I claim to know more information than you or anyone else? As I’ve said before, NOBODY here (including me) really knows SQUAT about what’s going on. The tidbits of information we’ve received from the Press are vague and misleading, at best. There are, however, certain common sense realities involved and it is clear that much of what we’re currently being fed is bunch of baloney. I want nothing more than for Saab to come through this as a company from which I’d unwaveringly hand over $50K for a new vehicle. Based on… Read more »
lundin
Member
4 years 9 months ago

“They aren’t just handing that over to the Chinese. GM needs Buick in China more than they need their stock in Saab”

If they speak up,they can even make some money out of this deal i am sure.
Everything is manageable….even for a company like GM.
IP protection can be done, sales limits in china (in fear of competition) can be done etc.
I dont see the REAL point to be honest. Please let me know.

Also,what if Spyker reached its sales targets in 10/11 and wanted to go into china without chinese ownership, what would the GM reaction be ?

Sue Esponte
Member
4 years 9 months ago

Why would GM help a competitor sell cars in China that are based on its crown jewel (i.e., Buick)? Even today, Saabs are still mostly GM modified cars. Without GM technology, there is no Saab. The all new 9-5 is largely built on GM technology. If a Chinese company takes control of Saab, where do you think that technology is going to go? So, as for IP protection in China. Have fun with that.

michaelb
Member
4 years 9 months ago

Saab is not a competitor to GM brands. There are other much more powerful mass market producers. A Saab will never be a competitor for a Buick, it is playing in a different league, and will be more so, if Saab would survive and would have to upgrade premium. Those cannot be the real reasons.

Sue Esponte
Member
4 years 9 months ago
More head in the sand logic. Saab can’t sit in the market alone without competition in today’s market. Saab DOES compete with Buick. They also compete with Cadillac. They also compete with Opel. Hmmm…what do these brands have in common? OH YEAH, they sell cars based on the same platform, technology and architecture as the all new Saab 9-5!!! Just because you wouldn’t be caught dead driving a Buick, Cadillac or Opel doesn’t mean Saab doesn’t need conquest buyers from these brands. Buick also isn’t the same company it was in 1985. It’s shed (or at least it’s try to… Read more »
michaelb
Member
4 years 9 months ago
All these ideas going completely new ways are way too late. The problem is money or lack of, time left, and GM’s resistance. In half a year the old and the prospective new owners have not found out, what GM’s objections refer to and how to tackle them. Maybe their own behavior has strengthened fears at GM, maybe the whole thing was just a farce from GM’s side from the beginning, maybe the messy situation with an administrator and owner making opposed proposals, maybe the negotiators were just too ambitious, asked for too much compared to GM’s objections and were… Read more »
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