Last minute negotiations
December 18, 2011 in News
Right now Victor Muller together with Rachel Pang are discussing details regarding the solution which is supposed to provide funding to Saab via Youngman. The details are not yet known but, according to Tv4 the money supporting Saab is to be provided through a newly created daughter company of SWAN.
We are all very nervous about tomorrow as GM has stated that they will not support this latest deal. According to the new administrator Lars Söderqvist to Tv4 the whole issue with GM is about a misunderstanding of how the investments are to be made into Saab.
We also learned that Rachel Pang will not be attending tomorrow’s meeting in Vänersborg since she friday evening became seriously ill, she is reported to have recovered quickly though and is now fully up to date and taking part of the discussions.
I’m not a religious person but even I will say a prayer for Saab, Victor Muller and everyone working in Saab’s best interest tonight…
74StingSaab said on December 18, 2011
Prayer sent… May we all have Happy Holidays.
jouni72 said on December 18, 2011
Me too! Lets hope this turns to be good!
TurboLamko said on December 18, 2011
Fingers crossed!!
I am soooo nervous about tomorrow!
But why did Youngman not finance the wages yet?
Tim said on December 18, 2011
Maybe they couldn’t for some reason…
OliverH said on December 18, 2011
I thought the administrator decides what to pay if money comes in.
ANA said on December 18, 2011
Looking at these reports I think that it is unlikely that any money will arrive tomorrow and if that is the case it will be all over for Saab. Very sad.
Audun said on December 18, 2011
Let us just wait and see, and not think like that.
Henrik said on December 18, 2011
They will most certainly use the wages in the “negotiations” with the court tomorrow, no reconstruction, no wages…
jocke said on December 18, 2011
Griffin up no matter what !!
dave said on December 18, 2011
Good luck everyone.
Based on Iron Maiden… We fought them hard, we fought them well….Maybe we can still give them hell !
Khrisdk said on December 18, 2011
Not the best anology…Run to the Hills is written from the viewpoint of a Native American..
dave said on December 18, 2011
I know
But at this point I don’t know if we have better chances than they had…
JMart007 said on December 18, 2011
More like Two Minutes to Midnight
OliverH said on December 18, 2011
What does the (hopefully new) administrator states regarding the investment and GM (the misunderstanding)? Do we have detailed information?
If the financial situation really change and t looks that Saab will have a bright future it will only happen with GM on board to start production and get parts. Otherwise: How many parts are coming from GM and can they be changed quickly? As for power train it will a heck of a job to do (and also homologation needs to be made again). And there will be other important parts.
Can Phoenix be quicker in an interims state on market?
Smithy said on December 18, 2011
WHO are General Motor’s main shareholders?
I’m suspecting these people think they can hide behind GM’s statements without e-mails popping up in THEIR inbox…
2011-12-19 will either be the beginning of the end of Saab Automobile or the beginning of a new chance for the brand.
scand said on December 18, 2011
Us govt, Canadian govt, and the united auto workers union are three of the biggest, I think.
Smithy said on December 18, 2011
Wow…
Guess it’s impossible to find actual people to send some polite e-mails to, not that it’ll make any difference…
“Oh hi Obama!”
ThomasJ said on December 18, 2011
Talking about Last minute, but if they Save An Amazing Brand, then it is OK.
Paul said on December 18, 2011
+1
Scooby said on December 18, 2011
Pang not coming is a disaster….. I work at Saab and her not being there is the worst thing that could have happened. Her not coming probably means no salary in My account tomorrow morning and if thats the case, well that’s it i’m afraid….
Tim said on December 18, 2011
I’m just happy that she is back on her feet still working hard to save the situation! if that is done from Sweden or China doesn’t matter!
JH said on December 18, 2011
I think that being ill is a perfectly understandable reason for not attedning. Don’t you agree, Scooby?
Scooby said on December 18, 2011
Of course it’s an understandable reason BUT her not being there is still not good and you would think that they might have sent somebody else instead don’t you think considering what is at stake. It’s all à bit much at the moment for all of us. Still find it strange that GM would release à statement on à saturday afternoon, i am sure that was done to set à cat amongst the pigeons and now no pang either. I hope to god i am wrong but bad vibes and if santa only comes once à year them i hope that it’s tomorrow.
OliverH said on December 18, 2011
Hopefully the wages situation can be sorted out very soon. I wish the best to the people at Saab.
karl said on December 18, 2011
GRIFFIN UP !!!!!!!
saabfanatic said on December 18, 2011
Here is the link to the APF report. According to this, GM would not approve ANY deals for Saab including the latest negotiations. Apparently, the Goverment Motors is really trying to kill Saab as long as the Chinees are involved. What a bunch of f#!@
http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5ibjvFYlNyNmCT3KbN29APL8XCAPA?docId=CNG.f20b4240ddfb7fb679fc13254a5dadcb.4c1
Kimberly said on December 18, 2011
Right; I do not think there is any viable plan to enable SAAB’s survival which GM would approve.
Also, it’s interesting that Opel’s production shortfall from profitability pretty much matches what SAAB’s projected sales would have provided (100k-120k vehicles) because Opel would have had to provide unibody and other body and chassis components. Soo, it looks like what goes around, comes around, and we can cheer on GM’s continued bleeding.
Henrik said on December 18, 2011
It´s true, but the deal beeing negotiated has nothing to do with shareholding in Saab automobile, but a daughter company, so ackording to Victor and the new reconstructor GM has nothing to say about it. But they try anyway, but technically I don´t think they have a case.
EuroDriver said on December 18, 2011
Why won’t someone stop this madness? Someone needs to put GM in there place. What do they really want, what specifics in a deal does GM want? I don’t understand why they just won’t let go. Does GM not understand the economic repercussions to the region if Saab dies? Why doesn’t the Government step in and have there say? Who can supersede GMs rulings? I’m sorry for all these questions, it just dumbfounds me why no one is saying anything.
dave said on December 18, 2011
“Anonymous” could put GM in its place
Khrisdk said on December 18, 2011
Yup, they could
And Wikileaks could also provide a little insight into the inner Workings of GM and SweGov.
Unfortunatley Assange is probably also facing a Swedish court shortly, and since the relations between Sweden and US are so good he will probably be extradited.
Oh well..That leaves it up to the guys with the masks..
Saabo said on December 18, 2011
For us Swedes, i think this song fits the situation and our community pretty well.
Someone better than me on translating the text to english might help those that do not speek swedish. The artists name is “Stiko Per” and the song is “Bröder” (= Brothers).
….” Vi är bröder och inga andra är som oss” (= “We are brothers and no body else are like us)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGbAV4Y2aBE
Griffin up!
jocke said on December 18, 2011
+1
Richard said on December 18, 2011
At this point I am clinging to the hope that Youngman is confident their deal will legally succeed without GM’s involvement or approval. GM’s foot stamping, sky-is-falling pronouncements are really getting quite tiring.
I don’t know the exact amounts of money that Youngman has transferred to Saab – all before any deal has been signed – but it is certainly in the millions of dollars. Chinese corporations don’t gamble with that kind of money on the off chance that a long shot deal can be worked out. I’m cautiously optimistic that some great news is coming in the next couple days with the added bonus that it will be legally sound enough to silence GM’s bleating about vetoing any agreement.
CSD_ChineseSaabDriver said on December 18, 2011
What has GM to do with this newest deal? Nothing.
Otherwise kick GM out of Chinese market, other car makers will be more than happy.
Red J said on December 18, 2011
Did you notice that this last desperate attack from GM came after the Chinese government raised the import taxes on cars, and specially on GM cars?
I hope Saab is not in the middle of a financial cold war!!!
Lars S said on December 18, 2011
GM should be very careful. China can kick their ass, should they want to do so.
Kimberly said on December 18, 2011
I don’t know about Swedish law, but here in the US, if the company is not acting in the best interest of the shareholders, suit can be filed in behalf of injured shareholders. If Swedish law covers that sort of thing, GM could be facing a huge liability because they are causing sizable losses to all other shareholders with the constant rejection of every possible deal.
GM set it up for failure by choosing the least experienced, least equipped suitor for SAAB in the first place.
Saabim said on December 18, 2011
We will have nice holdays. Positive thinking.
Fingers crossed.
TukanSaab said on December 18, 2011
Good luck all!! There has never been a more worthwhile battle in automotive history!! We can all remember how BMW at one time was at the brink but didn’t sell out to Mercedes Benz and fought for their survival!!!! Saab can do it! Here’s to a new 93 in 2013!!!! Fingers crossed.
OliverH said on December 18, 2011
But their fight was not dependent from an other company holding rights on technologies and platforms. As long as Saab couldn’t make a deal with GM they’ve to change platform and/ or technology. Has GM worldwide rights or based on some countries?
Even if they get new R&D joint venture and Saab parts running up (again) that’s not enough for keeping factory alive? But hopefully they find a solution for compete Saab.
TukanSaab said on December 18, 2011
That’s true.. nonethelss I think Saab, if given a chace, could produce some industry changing innovations (like BMW did) that would pull it out of the flames…if they just could get away from GM
SaabTurbo said on December 18, 2011
Good luck everybody I keep my fingers crossed. Thanks to Victor Muller, thanks to the chinese investors, thanks to saabsunited and to all saab passionate for doing everything out there to try and keep saab alive. We are attending an important moment in automotive history lets just hope it turns out well!
TurboLamko said on December 18, 2011
But why won’t Rachel Pang attend in Vänersborg tommorow when she recovered quickly?? Not good…
Tim said on December 18, 2011
You do know that its sunday today right? Flying from China to Sweden is easily a 15 hour travel day. A recovery within 24 hrs is considered quickly. As a pilot I would not advise her to fly after just having been sick…
Saab and Youngman is important but her health is even more important!
CSD_ChineseSaabDriver said on December 18, 2011
But I thought RP is in Sweden day in day out these days, no?
CSD_ChineseSaabDriver said on December 18, 2011
“according to Tv4 the money supporting Saab is to be provided through a newly created daughter company of SWAN.”
Gentelmen, I think this new daughter company is the KEY, it must be a smart move for the future of both Saab and Youngman.
Red J said on December 18, 2011
This is the reason for VM and others(me among them) to think that GM has no say on this deal.
GM can only put a veto if the ownership of Saab or SWAN changes, but if SWAN(not even Saab Automobile AB) creates a new daughter company and a Youngman/Fiat/BMW invests on that doughtier company GM has nothing to say about that.
I don’t think that the argumentation from GM, Saab is in a too weak condition to defend GM IP, is something a court should take into account.
CSD_ChineseSaabDriver said on December 18, 2011
I really don’t worry about the court, the court is from Sweden, they surely also want the jobs to be saved.
And actually I don’t give a crap about GM on this issue, they have no say on it.
And Saab has a 5 years contract with Gm to supply parts, GM just can not break it now.
I just hope after 3 years, kick GM out of SAAB picture, completely.
And somehow the Chinese government should punish GM one way or another in the future, you cause trouble to me then don’t expect me be nice to you, plain B2B (business to business).
Red J said on December 18, 2011
Hey, I fully agree with you. And the court I meant is not the one tomorrow but a possibly court in the future if GM tries to fight against SWAN on the court.
GM has contracts with SWAN, SWAN hasn’t done anything to void those contracts, and GM only argument is that they think that Saab may be in a too fragile position to defend their IP.
All in all, sending those e-mails on sunday to some news outlets just before the audition on court instead of being present on Monday at the court shows that GM’s argumentation is a little bit “fragile”.
CSD_ChineseSaabDriver said on December 18, 2011
“GM only argument is that they think that Saab may be in a too fragile position to defend their IP.”
That won’t be an issue, because the Saabs with GM IP will only be produced in Sweden, not in China. The JV with Youngman will only produce Saabs with no GM-IP, hopefully in the coming 3 years SAAB work hard to get the remaning 10% GM parts out of Phoenix.
OliverH said on December 18, 2011
Hopefully the contract is worth the money written on. In case of misunderstanding law parts are based on the US or Sweden?
OliverH said on December 18, 2011
Correction: is worth the paper writte on.
Irish Badger said on December 18, 2011
I have a dream! A world in which GM/SAIC see their market share fall precipitously as Youngman Saab’s new Chinese built 9-3s become the “must have” car for the Chinese middle class. As a result GM is forced to explain to the US Govt (by then Republican) why they need yet another bailout. Then they’ll know what it will be like to hear a bunch of jerks constantly saying “No” to them.
Perchance to dream…
OliverH said on December 18, 2011
Is the deal to BAIC free of GM licenses? 8)
I think of 95-I and first 93-II..
michaelb said on December 18, 2011
If YM is not personally represented tomorrow by a high level or owner representative, the company should make it undoubtedly clear, that it stands behind the project to save Saab. In such a case, money is the only valid argument. Tomorrow, the November and December salaries should be on Saab’s account, plus a sufficient sum for payment of all undpaid bills during reconstruction. Otherwise, the case is very weak for the court.
CSD_ChineseSaabDriver said on December 18, 2011
I really don’t worry about that, otherwise YM and VM won’t have been working hard in the past days.
saaburban said on December 18, 2011
If Rachel is à ‘no show’ tomorrow, it must mean that:
1. The money will be there, and she is not needed.
2. The money is not there, and she sees no reason being there.
The plot thickens, if GM wants to play chicken with YM.
CSD_ChineseSaabDriver said on December 18, 2011
Gentes,
My feeling is so:
Tomorrow will be totally OK, no worry.
About the new deal:
I think it is just like VOLVO, SAAB stays pure Swedish business, factory stay, jobs stay, CEO stay, the Chinese parties only supply money to keep SAAB running.
Then, Youngman will set up a joint venture with Saab in China, to produce future new Saab’s both for Chinese and world markets (Volvo is going to set up factories in China too, later).
Believe me, I will just sleep well tonight, no worry about the court tomorrow.
hughw said on December 18, 2011
Thanks. I like your confidence, and I tend to agree with you. And I think the moderators should have an automatic post deleter for any post that begins with R.I.P. Saab. That’s getting a little shop worn I think. Lets not bury a body while its still warm.
CSD_ChineseSaabDriver said on December 18, 2011
Thank you too.
I like this “Lets not bury a body while its still warm.”
A old Chinese saying: “死马当作活马医 – rescue/cure even a dead horse as a living horse”
Let along SAAB *IS* ALIVE, right now. All Saab fans are ALIVE too
saabyurk said on December 18, 2011
Thanks for the good vibes. I hope you’re right, it makes sense. Maybe I can sleep better tonight.
hilmar said on December 18, 2011
Rachel Pang, Victor Muller – you have my full support against GM, SweGov and their vasal GL. On Monday the court has not only to decide on Saab to be or not to be but about the fact whether a European country should allow aggressive American capitalism to destroy a local industrial plant with an extraordinary heritage ! Sweden – think about this matter !
CSD_ChineseSaabDriver said on December 18, 2011
GM should know this: Live and Let Live.
Don’t be too selfish, that’s won’t make GM last long.
Troels, Denmark said on December 18, 2011
I will hope and cross my fingers… speculations are just speculations…
Alex 900 said on December 18, 2011
I thought that they wouldn’t need GM approval for funding without taking any shareholding? I hope this all works in SAABs favour…
Griffin UP!
Uddo said on December 18, 2011
http://www.dn.se/ekonomi/youngman-vill-inte-betala-mer-till-saab
Troels, Denmark said on December 18, 2011
sad – really sad …
CSD_ChineseSaabDriver said on December 18, 2011
That does not yet mean anything serious about the SAAB’s future. As long as the final deal in fact has nothing to do with GM, the investment will come and SAAB will be OK.
Let’s just wait for tomorrow.
Troels, Denmark said on December 18, 2011
Thanks for your answer! I hope you are right!
OliverH said on December 18, 2011
We’ve to see what happens tomorrow and what will be announced officially. Chinese businessmn (& women
) are as good that hey won’t destroy that amount of money. Tactic?
OliverH said on December 18, 2011
English:
http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=sv&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=de&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dn.se%2Fekonomi%2Fyoungman-vill-inte-betala-mer-till-saab
OH said on December 18, 2011
According to swedish press “Youngman will not pay any more money to SaaB” SAAB files for bancruptcy 10.00 monday.
WWW;DN:SE.
CSD_ChineseSaabDriver said on December 18, 2011
Let’s think about the worst case: SAAB files for bancruptcy
So what? SAAB will still get re-birth, a NEW SAAB will stand up, totally without GM crap more.
I really don’t think YM will give up, otherwise they won’t have been busy in past days.
Anyway in a few days the whole picture will be glass clear to all of us.
Keep optimistic
OliverH said on December 18, 2011
And will produce wind mills in accordance to SweGov 8) Or what would they like to produce up to Phoenix? Anyway. I’m no insider so I’ve to wait for tomorrow and the days after…
100%Saab said on December 18, 2011
Not sure what Rachel Pang being ill means. Sometimes illness makes a convenient excuse for missing a meeting. Have Rachel Pang and the Chinese bailed out? I guess we will all see soon.
Just a thought.
Markac said on December 19, 2011
I’m not sure that GM will find any deal acceptable. It is becoming more and more apparent that when Saab gets going again, it will have to do everything possible to carefully phase GM IP out of it’s system.
As I have said before, GM survived the grim reaper itself only recently. It probably won’t be as lucky next time? What’s that old saying … “As you sow, so shall you reap.”.
Roberto G said on December 19, 2011
In the past we have seen Unions that have shown support for other Unions. Where are their leaders hiding this time when they see the real possibility of having thousands of workers looking for new possibilities in the workplace. Maybe whatever they said or do might be at this stage irrelevant. We will find shortly if Youngman has been serious and committed to fight till the end.