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Last minute negotiations

December 18, 2011 in News

Right now Victor Muller together with Rachel Pang are discussing details regarding the solution which is supposed to provide funding to Saab via Youngman. The details are not yet known but, according to Tv4 the money supporting Saab is to be provided through a newly created daughter company of SWAN.

We are all very nervous about tomorrow as GM has stated that they will not support this latest deal. According to the new administrator Lars Söderqvist to Tv4 the whole issue with GM is about a misunderstanding of how the investments are to be made into Saab.

We also learned that Rachel Pang will not be attending tomorrow’s meeting in Vänersborg since she friday evening became seriously ill, she is reported to have recovered quickly though and is now fully up to date and taking part of the discussions.

I’m not a religious person but even I will say a prayer for Saab, Victor Muller and everyone working in Saab’s best interest tonight…

78 responses to Last minute negotiations

  1. Prayer sent… May we all have Happy Holidays.

  2. Fingers crossed!!

    I am soooo nervous about tomorrow!

    But why did Youngman not finance the wages yet?

    • Maybe they couldn’t for some reason…

    • I thought the administrator decides what to pay if money comes in.

    • Looking at these reports I think that it is unlikely that any money will arrive tomorrow and if that is the case it will be all over for Saab. Very sad.

    • They will most certainly use the wages in the “negotiations” with the court tomorrow, no reconstruction, no wages…

  3. Griffin up no matter what !!

  4. Good luck everyone.
    Based on Iron Maiden… We fought them hard, we fought them well….Maybe we can still give them hell !

  5. What does the (hopefully new) administrator states regarding the investment and GM (the misunderstanding)? Do we have detailed information?
    If the financial situation really change and t looks that Saab will have a bright future it will only happen with GM on board to start production and get parts. Otherwise: How many parts are coming from GM and can they be changed quickly? As for power train it will a heck of a job to do (and also homologation needs to be made again). And there will be other important parts.
    Can Phoenix be quicker in an interims state on market?

  6. WHO are General Motor’s main shareholders?
    I’m suspecting these people think they can hide behind GM’s statements without e-mails popping up in THEIR inbox…

    2011-12-19 will either be the beginning of the end of Saab Automobile or the beginning of a new chance for the brand.

    • Us govt, Canadian govt, and the united auto workers union are three of the biggest, I think.

      • Wow…
        Guess it’s impossible to find actual people to send some polite e-mails to, not that it’ll make any difference…

        “Oh hi Obama!” 😉

  7. Talking about Last minute, but if they Save An Amazing Brand, then it is OK. 😉

  8. Pang not coming is a disaster….. I work at Saab and her not being there is the worst thing that could have happened. Her not coming probably means no salary in My account tomorrow morning and if thats the case, well that’s it i’m afraid….

    • I’m just happy that she is back on her feet still working hard to save the situation! if that is done from Sweden or China doesn’t matter!

    • I think that being ill is a perfectly understandable reason for not attedning. Don’t you agree, Scooby?

      • Of course it’s an understandable reason BUT her not being there is still not good and you would think that they might have sent somebody else instead don’t you think considering what is at stake. It’s all à bit much at the moment for all of us. Still find it strange that GM would release à statement on à saturday afternoon, i am sure that was done to set à cat amongst the pigeons and now no pang either. I hope to god i am wrong but bad vibes and if santa only comes once à year them i hope that it’s tomorrow.

    • Hopefully the wages situation can be sorted out very soon. I wish the best to the people at Saab.

  9. GRIFFIN UP !!!!!!!

  10. Here is the link to the APF report. According to this, GM would not approve ANY deals for Saab including the latest negotiations. Apparently, the Goverment Motors is really trying to kill Saab as long as the Chinees are involved. What a bunch of f#!@

    • Right; I do not think there is any viable plan to enable SAAB’s survival which GM would approve.

      Also, it’s interesting that Opel’s production shortfall from profitability pretty much matches what SAAB’s projected sales would have provided (100k-120k vehicles) because Opel would have had to provide unibody and other body and chassis components. Soo, it looks like what goes around, comes around, and we can cheer on GM’s continued bleeding. :)

    • It´s true, but the deal beeing negotiated has nothing to do with shareholding in Saab automobile, but a daughter company, so ackording to Victor and the new reconstructor GM has nothing to say about it. But they try anyway, but technically I don´t think they have a case.

  11. Why won’t someone stop this madness? Someone needs to put GM in there place. What do they really want, what specifics in a deal does GM want? I don’t understand why they just won’t let go. Does GM not understand the economic repercussions to the region if Saab dies? Why doesn’t the Government step in and have there say? Who can supersede GMs rulings? I’m sorry for all these questions, it just dumbfounds me why no one is saying anything.

    • “Anonymous” could put GM in its place :)

      • Yup, they could
        And Wikileaks could also provide a little insight into the inner Workings of GM and SweGov.
        Unfortunatley Assange is probably also facing a Swedish court shortly, and since the relations between Sweden and US are so good he will probably be extradited.
        Oh well..That leaves it up to the guys with the masks..

  12. For us Swedes, i think this song fits the situation and our community pretty well.
    Someone better than me on translating the text to english might help those that do not speek swedish. The artists name is “Stiko Per” and the song is “Bröder” (= Brothers).

    ….” Vi är bröder och inga andra är som oss” (= “We are brothers and no body else are like us)

    Griffin up!

  13. At this point I am clinging to the hope that Youngman is confident their deal will legally succeed without GM’s involvement or approval. GM’s foot stamping, sky-is-falling pronouncements are really getting quite tiring.

    I don’t know the exact amounts of money that Youngman has transferred to Saab – all before any deal has been signed – but it is certainly in the millions of dollars. Chinese corporations don’t gamble with that kind of money on the off chance that a long shot deal can be worked out. I’m cautiously optimistic that some great news is coming in the next couple days with the added bonus that it will be legally sound enough to silence GM’s bleating about vetoing any agreement.

  14. What has GM to do with this newest deal? Nothing.

    Otherwise kick GM out of Chinese market, other car makers will be more than happy.

    • Did you notice that this last desperate attack from GM came after the Chinese government raised the import taxes on cars, and specially on GM cars? 😉

      I hope Saab is not in the middle of a financial cold war!!!

    • I don’t know about Swedish law, but here in the US, if the company is not acting in the best interest of the shareholders, suit can be filed in behalf of injured shareholders. If Swedish law covers that sort of thing, GM could be facing a huge liability because they are causing sizable losses to all other shareholders with the constant rejection of every possible deal.

      GM set it up for failure by choosing the least experienced, least equipped suitor for SAAB in the first place.

  15. We will have nice holdays. Positive thinking.

    Fingers crossed.

  16. Good luck all!! There has never been a more worthwhile battle in automotive history!! We can all remember how BMW at one time was at the brink but didn’t sell out to Mercedes Benz and fought for their survival!!!! Saab can do it! Here’s to a new 93 in 2013!!!! Fingers crossed.

    • But their fight was not dependent from an other company holding rights on technologies and platforms. As long as Saab couldn’t make a deal with GM they’ve to change platform and/ or technology. Has GM worldwide rights or based on some countries?
      Even if they get new R&D joint venture and Saab parts running up (again) that’s not enough for keeping factory alive? But hopefully they find a solution for compete Saab.

      • That’s true.. nonethelss I think Saab, if given a chace, could produce some industry changing innovations (like BMW did) that would pull it out of the flames…if they just could get away from GM

  17. Good luck everybody I keep my fingers crossed. Thanks to Victor Muller, thanks to the chinese investors, thanks to saabsunited and to all saab passionate for doing everything out there to try and keep saab alive. We are attending an important moment in automotive history lets just hope it turns out well!

  18. But why won’t Rachel Pang attend in Vänersborg tommorow when she recovered quickly?? Not good…

    • You do know that its sunday today right? Flying from China to Sweden is easily a 15 hour travel day. A recovery within 24 hrs is considered quickly. As a pilot I would not advise her to fly after just having been sick…

      Saab and Youngman is important but her health is even more important!

  19. “according to Tv4 the money supporting Saab is to be provided through a newly created daughter company of SWAN.”

    Gentelmen, I think this new daughter company is the KEY, it must be a smart move for the future of both Saab and Youngman.

    • This is the reason for VM and others(me among them) to think that GM has no say on this deal.

      GM can only put a veto if the ownership of Saab or SWAN changes, but if SWAN(not even Saab Automobile AB) creates a new daughter company and a Youngman/Fiat/BMW invests on that doughtier company GM has nothing to say about that.

      I don’t think that the argumentation from GM, Saab is in a too weak condition to defend GM IP, is something a court should take into account.

      • I really don’t worry about the court, the court is from Sweden, they surely also want the jobs to be saved.

        And actually I don’t give a crap about GM on this issue, they have no say on it.

        And Saab has a 5 years contract with Gm to supply parts, GM just can not break it now.

        I just hope after 3 years, kick GM out of SAAB picture, completely.

        And somehow the Chinese government should punish GM one way or another in the future, you cause trouble to me then don’t expect me be nice to you, plain B2B (business to business).

        • Hey, I fully agree with you. And the court I meant is not the one tomorrow but a possibly court in the future if GM tries to fight against SWAN on the court.

          GM has contracts with SWAN, SWAN hasn’t done anything to void those contracts, and GM only argument is that they think that Saab may be in a too fragile position to defend their IP.

          All in all, sending those e-mails on sunday to some news outlets just before the audition on court instead of being present on Monday at the court shows that GM’s argumentation is a little bit “fragile”.

          • “GM only argument is that they think that Saab may be in a too fragile position to defend their IP.”

            That won’t be an issue, because the Saabs with GM IP will only be produced in Sweden, not in China. The JV with Youngman will only produce Saabs with no GM-IP, hopefully in the coming 3 years SAAB work hard to get the remaning 10% GM parts out of Phoenix.

        • Hopefully the contract is worth the money written on. In case of misunderstanding law parts are based on the US or Sweden?

  20. I have a dream! A world in which GM/SAIC see their market share fall precipitously as Youngman Saab’s new Chinese built 9-3s become the “must have” car for the Chinese middle class. As a result GM is forced to explain to the US Govt (by then Republican) why they need yet another bailout. Then they’ll know what it will be like to hear a bunch of jerks constantly saying “No” to them.

    Perchance to dream…

  21. Is the deal to BAIC free of GM licenses? 8)
    I think of 95-I and first 93-II..

  22. If YM is not personally represented tomorrow by a high level or owner representative, the company should make it undoubtedly clear, that it stands behind the project to save Saab. In such a case, money is the only valid argument. Tomorrow, the November and December salaries should be on Saab’s account, plus a sufficient sum for payment of all undpaid bills during reconstruction. Otherwise, the case is very weak for the court.

  23. If Rachel is à ‘no show’ tomorrow, it must mean that:
    1. The money will be there, and she is not needed.
    2. The money is not there, and she sees no reason being there.

    The plot thickens, if GM wants to play chicken with YM.

  24. Gentes,

    My feeling is so:
    Tomorrow will be totally OK, no worry.

    About the new deal:
    I think it is just like VOLVO, SAAB stays pure Swedish business, factory stay, jobs stay, CEO stay, the Chinese parties only supply money to keep SAAB running.

    Then, Youngman will set up a joint venture with Saab in China, to produce future new Saab’s both for Chinese and world markets (Volvo is going to set up factories in China too, later).

    Believe me, I will just sleep well tonight, no worry about the court tomorrow.

    • Thanks. I like your confidence, and I tend to agree with you. And I think the moderators should have an automatic post deleter for any post that begins with R.I.P. Saab. That’s getting a little shop worn I think. Lets not bury a body while its still warm.

      • Thank you too.

        I like this “Lets not bury a body while its still warm.”

        A old Chinese saying: “死马当作活马医 – rescue/cure even a dead horse as a living horse”

        Let along SAAB *IS* ALIVE, right now. All Saab fans are ALIVE too :)

    • Thanks for the good vibes. I hope you’re right, it makes sense. Maybe I can sleep better tonight.

  25. Rachel Pang, Victor Muller – you have my full support against GM, SweGov and their vasal GL. On Monday the court has not only to decide on Saab to be or not to be but about the fact whether a European country should allow aggressive American capitalism to destroy a local industrial plant with an extraordinary heritage ! Sweden – think about this matter !

  26. I will hope and cross my fingers… speculations are just speculations…

  27. I thought that they wouldn’t need GM approval for funding without taking any shareholding? I hope this all works in SAABs favour… :) Griffin UP!

  28. According to swedish press “Youngman will not pay any more money to SaaB” SAAB files for bancruptcy 10.00 monday.


    • Let’s think about the worst case: SAAB files for bancruptcy

      So what? SAAB will still get re-birth, a NEW SAAB will stand up, totally without GM crap more.

      I really don’t think YM will give up, otherwise they won’t have been busy in past days.

      Anyway in a few days the whole picture will be glass clear to all of us.

      Keep optimistic

      • And will produce wind mills in accordance to SweGov 8) Or what would they like to produce up to Phoenix? Anyway. I’m no insider so I’ve to wait for tomorrow and the days after…

  29. Not sure what Rachel Pang being ill means. Sometimes illness makes a convenient excuse for missing a meeting. Have Rachel Pang and the Chinese bailed out? I guess we will all see soon.

    Just a thought.

  30. I’m not sure that GM will find any deal acceptable. It is becoming more and more apparent that when Saab gets going again, it will have to do everything possible to carefully phase GM IP out of it’s system.

    As I have said before, GM survived the grim reaper itself only recently. It probably won’t be as lucky next time? What’s that old saying … “As you sow, so shall you reap.”.

  31. In the past we have seen Unions that have shown support for other Unions. Where are their leaders hiding this time when they see the real possibility of having thousands of workers looking for new possibilities in the workplace. Maybe whatever they said or do might be at this stage irrelevant. We will find shortly if Youngman has been serious and committed to fight till the end.