Never ever give up…
December 21, 2011 in Editorial
I followed the Saab saga from the centre of the storm for a long time. Lots of info came to my ears even before they were in the news, quite a bit of it was too hot to be published. It was a continuous quest for information and I was online nearly 24 hours a day. We were on a mission, trying to do our share to Saab’s fight for survival. The more I dug into things the more great people I met and the more I wanted to fight for Saab. Ever since I came to SaabsUnited my love for Saab has grown stronger. Just like you say that the love of a married couple growsthrough tough times I identified myself with Saab more and more. Around here I am known as the quirky guy who loves that Swedish brand. And I like to be. Still.
What makes me really sad is that GM let Saab work on a solution they knew they would never accept. I did not really blame GM for asking Saab to stick to the contracts and leave any ownership change below 20%. That was their right. But as they came out with the statement that they won’t accept any involvement of a Chinese company, be it ownership, a loan or whatever they stepped a bit too far. At least for me. The way things have gone with a greedy Pang Da trying to take over 100%, first with Geely and then with Youngman, have surely added their bit to GM’s decision but I strongly believe that SAIC had their say in this. They did not want a competitor to rise in the Chinese market that is now threatened by consolidation. I have no evidence for this but to me it’s logical. But the thing that upsets me most about GM is that they did not clearly state this three, four, five or even ten months ago. Victor would not have followed the Chisese path so eagerly if he had known about this.
Coming to Victor – he surely has made some mistakes in the past two years but if it had not been for him, Saab had been dead and gone two years ago. He fought for Saab, even beyond the point where he had to fear personal monetary losses because he still saw a chance to avoid bankrupcy. The hurdles he has faced in this fight (GM, Lofalk, SweGov…) were high enough to let many quit, he still went on. That is what I’d like to thank him for. It is not often that a CEO who meets his employees to inform them about a bankrupcy is welcomed with applause. He was. And despite the current situation I feel that he deserves it.
Besides Victor there are a lot of people I’d like to thank for their tenacity. Youngman, who stayed in there until they could not justify another investment (I don’t blame them), the employees who stayed on board and among other things developed the next 9-3 further and further. All the local teams who went out on the dealer tours and re-created faith among the customers. All dealers who kept Saab in their portfolio…
I won’t even waste a word on the others who actively contributed to Saabs bankrupcy. I just hope Old Nick will take good care of them when their time has come.
To come back to the title – about six weeks ago I was talking to Tim and told him that even bankrupcy contains a chance for survival. My point was that in such a scenario, when debts are written down, investors may show up to pick up the company and get it up again without facing such a huge amount of debt. We heared about three interested parties who already showed up. At least they had enough time to prepare for this day. So I hope there will be one among them who can get things up and running. It’s, as before, mostly up to the amount of money someone is willing to invest. If the cash is there, everything is possible.
Yes, I belive there is still a reason for hope. And I won’t give up hope. Not yet.
OliverH said on December 20, 2011
Which suppliers will work again with Phoenix from the ashes after debts had been written off (this time) or down (last time)? There must be a rocket solid investor in place.
till72 said on December 20, 2011
No doubt it has to be a rock solid investor. But if it is, they will get supplies.
Christian said on December 20, 2011
Right, this is probably THE challenge for a restart. Many suppliers will need to be convinced from scratch by the new Saab to make a deal for supplying new programs.
This UK business school researchers’ report on what killed Saab really made me think. There are a couple of very good points in there. What can a new Saab company do in order to overcome the obstacle of being an niche manufacturer with a product portfolio that is to compete with Audis and BMWs at their price level but need much higher margins to survive?
Maybe they should just bring the Phoenix concept car to serial production. Low volumes but high-priced. Yet, a true Saab. Just a thought…
psmisc said on December 21, 2011
Not sure if this was discussed before, but I wonder if they can pull a MG. Acquire the assets and brand, shut down production, keep the engineers, and focus solely on developing the next-gen product.
quickbird said on December 21, 2011
YM cannot stand the lost when there is not car sales revenue while also still put money in the R&D. Don’t to mention the debt need to pay in pre-bankruptcy period.
Right now with debt off perhaps this works. But they still hope can product 9-3…
DanSaab said on December 20, 2011
Thanks for sharing this! I am refusing to give up the hope of Saab’s future as a carmaker
I think the WHOLE crew of Saabsunited should get a gift for the job they are doing.
If Saab survives this and if there will be a festival in summer 2012, each person from the crew that will attempt there will get a cake from me and of course a DRIVE the Saab 900 Turbo 16 1984-1986 for a spin
kochje said on December 21, 2011
You, and all other Saabists, are cordially invited to attend in August the International Saab club Meeting, held in Spa, Belgium.
Please do go to http://www.intsaab2012.com for more information.
It would be an excellent opportunity to get all together.
karl said on December 20, 2011
I have also hope !!!
OddJob said on December 20, 2011
My wild card tip: Indian company Mahindra. I’m not 100% sure but I believe they were among the interested parties when Grand Mother offered Saab for sale. Besides they now have a co-operation with Saab AB (the aviation and defence guys).
Angelo V. said on December 21, 2011
OddJob: I was thinking the same thing. They are a big enough player to consider this. Personally, I see the future in Saab’s “rights” being absorbed by a company from India or Asia (what about Kia?). A company that will be the ideal fit will be one that can build Saabs for less—-and sell them for less. Higher volume, lower margin will equal more stability.
davidgmills said on December 21, 2011
Mahindra was interested years ago.
Mahindara would make a much better partner than the Chinese and would not be nearly as much a problem for Americans. Americans look at the Indians as having taken much of their technology and office/service work, but they don’t see the Indians as having taken away their manufacturing base.
Indians are not equated with cheaply made products.
And the Indians seem to be doing great with Jaguar.
Jamie Lovett said on December 20, 2011
Beautifully written– thank you for your uplifting thoughts. All I want for Christmas is for SAAB to survive.
DanSaab said on December 20, 2011
Or at least a new year gift
Jamie Lovett said on December 20, 2011
Good point — what a great way to celebrate the new year! A brand new start!
Greg Abbott said on December 20, 2011
Whoever wants to come in and buy Saab needs to move quickly. The negative press in the U.S. from today’s announcement that Saab will no longer honor its warranties is quite intense. Whatever goodwill Saab has left in the marketplace is evaporating quickly.
fanofsaab said on December 20, 2011
Looks like warranties will be honored by GM, a token gesture to help ease the negative onslaught
Baver said on December 20, 2011
But not on Spyker/SWAN Saabs, which just happens to be what I have in my driveway
Saabman said on December 20, 2011
How ironic, those customers should complain to GM, they screwed it for them!
Greg Abbott said on December 20, 2011
I have one in my driveway, too. 11,000 trouble free miles, I’m not worried so much for myself.
The GM offer is not a gesture, it is a legal requirement under applicable law and also something that was covered in the sale contract with Spyker. Typical of GM to take credit for something they are already legally obligated to do.
And GM’s position or no, the negative press just looks awful.
quickbird said on December 21, 2011
Yes, GM ruined Saab, and then dumped Spyker/SWAN saabers…
kochje said on December 21, 2011
And the worst of this all is that this was communicated via press releases.
Not even the professionalism to have direct contact on this with SWAN.
What a management.
Greg Bakos said on December 20, 2011
GM is saying they will only honor warranties for cars bought in 2009 or before. You should be able to buy a warranty on later models Saabs, including new off the showroom floor.
meg haviland said on December 21, 2011
Well written Til
Yes we all want Saab to survive. My thanks go out to Victor and everyone else in TH for hanging in and fighting the fight. Saab will rise again….
As for the warranties, I was told by my shop that even my 08 is no longer covered until further notice. Sad part is, that a 10 came in with a computer problem and won’t run. The computer is in Atlanta but won’t be shipped. The customer, a true Saaber is willing to pay for it to get their car back o the road but the shop can’t get it at this time
No parts at this time can be ordered 
74StingSaab said on December 21, 2011
And that is the problem…. after such a wound like this, how can Saab recover? What do I tell my son who’s Saab is only 3 months in his hands and is worth probably 1/2 of what he paid and has no warranty (as of now) My CPO warranty is now questionable and parts for my wifes 2007 are already getting difficult to get.
Why should my son have to buy an aftermarket warranty for a 2011 Saab as someone suggested? That’s ridiculous. Saab should never have allowed this PR disaster and planned for this event. Selling $40k cars “as-is” is lunatic.
Baver said on December 21, 2011
It would be nice to get some clarification from Saab Cars NA. Hopefully, that will come very soon for us. If not, a class action lawsuit against General Motors from all North American owners may be in order, especially those with Spyker/SWAN Saabs. Any US lawyers out there with advice to us?
quickbird said on December 21, 2011
I am up for the lawsuit for GM, even donation for that I am willing. F. GM…
74StingSaab said on December 21, 2011
lawsuit against GM? please explain?
Irish Badger said on December 21, 2011
As a US trained attorney, I can think of several causes of action for a potential class action against GM:
1. Fraud; 2. Tortious Interference with a Contract (my Warranty); 3. Antitrust; 4. Unlawful Enrichment; even, 5. Securities Fraud
Some of these claims might not succeed ultimately but they would be sufficient to rack up several million dollars in legal fees defending against them and force a settlement.
quickbird said on December 21, 2011
Irish Badger, thanks god you are lawyer. We really need some Saaber who are lawyer can give us some advices about considering a class action against GM. Anyone who can take the lead or open a Facebook page to get other Saaber together and see what we can do?
Irish Badger said on December 21, 2011
Its an interesting question but not something I am willing to take on (sorry). I suspect, however, that there are a number of Plaintiff’s firms out there who are sniffing the blood in the water and who will be racing to the courthouse to file their claims. The Milberg firm out of NY (FKA Milberg Weiss) are probably the most notorious and largest of these firms. As luck would have it, they have an office in Detroit. Their information is: 777 Woodward Ave # 800 Detroit, MI 48226-3589
(313) 309-1760. I recommend that any US owner of a MY 10 or 11 reach out and contact them. For several personal reasons, I am unwilling to do so.
The problem with class actions in the US, is that the named Plaintiff never makes any money, it is always the law firm(s). What will happen is that there will be a case filed, it will go on for several years, there will be extensive discovery and then a settlement will be reached. It will probably be a voucher from GM for $1000 off your next purchase of a Buick. The lawyers will walk away with Millions.
The only advantage of a class action is pure revenge – no matter which way you slice it GM will be paying a settlement pool millions of dollars in addition to the many millions that it will cost them to defend and go through discovery.
quickbird said on December 21, 2011
Thanks Irish for the explanation and the information. Let’s see what other driver think and to see should we do that or not. Thanks again!
Irish Badger said on December 21, 2011
I forgot to mention that a class action would cost you nothing – because the plaintiff’s lawyers stand to make millions, if they think there is a case, they foot the bill.
quickbird said on December 21, 2011
Thanks Irish, really appreciate and thanks so much for your professional explanation.
So guys, should we do that?
Baver said on December 21, 2011
Thank you IrishBadger. Quickird, I think we should strongly consider it. I am wondering if it would be best to wait and see if there is a “White Knight” that GM can agree to work with before we start a fire. IrishBadger, any insight on the timing of a lawsuit, now or wait and see what happens next?
Irish Badger said on December 21, 2011
Hi Baver, as I have no experience in class actions, I am not comfortable giving a timing opinion beyond stating that a delay of a couple of weeks/months will probably not hurt it.
Interestingly, the Plaintiff’s lawyers might already be in a race to contact potential Plaintiffs. Given the stakes involved in class actions, there is often a race to sign up as many plaintiff’s as possible in order to be certified as “lead counsel” (i.e. the firm controlling the case) by the Court. If the members of SU were interested in approaching a class action firm, it would make sense to band together as it would be attractive to the insterested law firm in order to improve their chances of being selected as the lead counsel.
quickbird said on December 21, 2011
Or on the other side, the earlier of start this case again GM perhaps would give some pressure to GM and then it would allow some buyer to take over Saab and Saab can continue the operation and then pick up our warranty again? Just a thought, perhaps I am wrong…
Baver said on December 21, 2011
Quickbird, that’s what I am wondering. It may just really tick them off. By the way, Krampus has made an appearance on GM’s facebook wall. I urge you to take a look at it. Very funny. Google “Krampus” if you are not aware of what it is.
Baver said on December 21, 2011
Would be nice to have a way on here to get the Class Action message out to us Spyker/SWAN Saabers on here in one message. I’m not sure the moderators want to tick off GM anymore, since we are still hoping that a solution to this mess can be acheived, possibly still using GM technology. I dunno…..
cwf010 said on December 20, 2011
Phoenix is the hope.
Eric said on December 20, 2011
Indeed!
cwf010 said on December 20, 2011
China still a key. but, what world wide dealers’ feel?
Eric said on December 20, 2011
I am with you. I still have hope as well for Saab, as I do for a resurrection of Pontiac here in the States!
GM, I find, ultimately doesn’t play nice w/others whether it was GM alone or GM & SAIC. I can understand GM looking out for its own interests. But that last deal should have been fine w/them. In a sense, with saying no to any Chinese involvement they are rather two-faced. GM works w/SAIC in the China market b/c the have to to sell cars there, but otherwise & elsewhere want no relations w/the Chinese.
Though I can see the SAIC end of it too, which in a sense, is to say they are afraid of any real competition from a fellow domestic automaker. The GM or GM/SAIC part of this really stinks.
saabdog said on December 21, 2011
As long as Pontiac is a GM product, I will not buy one…and I own a 1965 Pontiac Tempest Convertible — when the Pontiac brand really meant something.
CSD_ChineseSaabDriver said on December 20, 2011
Ever since I came to SaabsUnited my love for Saab has grown stronger.
– exactly same here, day in day out, a proud Saab driver
kochje said on December 21, 2011
Join you, even now in this situation.
Will be proud to continue drive the best cars ever.
TRMaster said on December 20, 2011
http://webnews.textalk.com/upload/article/bild/5/232789/Ge_aldrig_upp_s.jpg
terry9000k said on December 20, 2011
till72
Re; ” The way things have gone with a b>greedy Pang Da<b trying to take over 100%, first with Geely and then with Youngman,''
I thought the 100& demand was made by Youngman??
CSD_ChineseSaabDriver said on December 20, 2011
PD & YM together to get 100% ownership
terry9000k said on December 20, 2011
But was it initiated by YM, that’s my memory
CSD_ChineseSaabDriver said on December 20, 2011
I am not sure, if YM did that, proves only that they really trust in Saab and really wanted to invest billion dollars.
Maybe YM is still there, they are coming to Sweden these days, and they are planning to start the JV with SWAN (the Saab Automobile Development Co), it’s all good sign there is a good chance Saab will be OK
till72 said on December 20, 2011
We all thought that. But the Lofalk files showed that it was Pang Da.
jond said on December 20, 2011
Well…. of course you are correct about the debts. But these debts did not appear by magic. They are the result of the Company losing over 700million Euro in under two years. They are now so large that an investor into the business as a going concern under reconstruction would have needed about twice the level of capital to make a restart compared with a business that was debt free – half to pay down the debts and half to gear up for production and sales.
So, what investor in their right minds would have preferred to buy the Company as a going concern over this last summer rather than await the inevitable bankruptcy and go for the remains at that stage? Therefore, all that effort over the summer to find investors was inevitably a complete waste of time – just digging a deeper hole by borrowing still more and damaging the brand still further. That should have been foreseen in the Spring. Also, much of the damage was done last winter due to sales much lower than the plan. An ‘operation cheetah’ should have been initiated about fifteen months ago when the actual level of demand became apparent.
The course of all this was therefore apparent from about fifteen months ago, but the management failed to take any action that would have reversed the Company’s fortunes. I’m sorry, but all this is not just bad luck and really not GM’s fault.
Naturally, the prospects to find a serious investor are much better now in bankruptcy. We have tired of false dawns over the summer, but now there really is a chance. Like you suggest, IMHO everyone should cheer up.
CSD_ChineseSaabDriver said on December 20, 2011
Well writen, I am think there is a great chance for the new Saab
Rune said on December 20, 2011
Back in mid-April Saab needed a relatively small amount of money and had a deal ready to secure those funds. That would have kept production going and if they had managed to keep their growth going they would have been profitable some time in 2012.
By contrast, a bankrupt Saab is an unknown entity that needs to renegotiate GM license deals. That approach was (and still is) a huge gamble. Especially given GM’s stance in January 2010 when they started taking the factory apart.
Apparent 15 months ago? Hmm… Could be. I don’t remember it being mentioned officially though. Your source?
jond said on December 20, 2011
The Company was heavily loss-making last winter, which would have been apparent the previous autumn, given demand at the time. The prudent course of action would have been to heavily cut back on production overheads. Since they owned their factory at the time, that could have been achieved.
Rune said on December 21, 2011
Earlier that year they were talking about adding a second shift. So in a way they did cut costs by cancelling those plans.
Their sales numbers were pointing upwards, and they needed to stock up in the US. Difficult to do that while reducing the production rate..? (the current cost cutting efforts seems to focus on this)
Meanwhile, October 2010 they started chasing Chinese partners and other means of getting their hands on fresh funding.
OliverH said on December 21, 2011
I think they wouldn’t have been profitable in 2012. The mentioned 100k are to low to get in +margin.
We forget the licence fees to GM which were really big, the 94x should have made volumes to compensate invests. The 95sc has to do the same. I think with a continual growth it should have been arrived 2013/2014. And then they had to back pay the EIB loan. To be realistic Saab had needed let’s say 2016-2018 to become profitable at all.
But the bankruptcy is the chance to get rid of all and get profitable much earlier. But it depends on quick acting to save as much distribution channel as they can. Also Saab Parts needs to become really operational again to get trust on existing customers and let them buy new Saabs later. Saab Parts (old or a new company) could also be a piece in the puzzle to get profitable as early as possible.
Swizzy said on December 20, 2011
Well written Till and thanks for your thougths. Thanks to the hole SU-Crew for the enourmous time and effort you have spent to keep us informed. I hope this Spirit will survive.
! In the meantime I’m proud to drive my 2 wonderful SAAB’s.
Even me will never ever give up to believe that SAAB will survive…
SAAB and all behind that grow up as a part of my live. I was twice in Trollhättan, once as a lucky guest on a factory tour in June 2010 and once early September this Year to visit the Museum the second time.
I already decided to go a third time for the Museum, maybe next Year…maybe at that time factory tours will be available again – how knows –
lilla said on December 21, 2011
I say it again and again, The hope dies last. I also would like to visit the factory …. a factory that produces great cars again! Remain optimistic and keep the SAAB spirit alive.
DanSaab said on December 20, 2011
I made a prayer recently about Saab and it’s future as a car brand and maker!
Saab UP
Griffin UP
JH said on December 20, 2011
Very well written Till, I couldn’t agree more.
Martin T16s said on December 20, 2011
A nicely written piece till72. I have always liked the way you put your point across and reminds me so much of how Swade used to speak. Very eloquent and to the point. I am a UK Saab dealer with 36 years of dedication and loyalty to this wonderful brand. I have always compared Saab to an incurable infection….those that get it are infected for life! What other product on earth can have that kind of impact? What other product or brand can boast of such deep rooted passion and dedication? We are a family like no other. I could drive to any country in the world and bump into another Saab owner and instantly we would feel like long lost friends. GM never ever could see or respect this Saab infection, they didn’t get it nor ever will! Those of us that have it just do not want to be cured! We live and breath Saab and always will. I look back on my 36 years of working with this brand, as at first an apprentice body repairer, then parts manager and then on to sell these glorious cars with very mixed emotions. I never did like the GM involvement but we do have to ask ourselves, would we still be here today without them? It could have all ended 20yrs ago. But for now that is all retrospective, we must now focus on the future. I firmly believe in my very heavy heart that we may still just get what we have dreamt of for so long, that chance to be rescued by a passionate owner that also may get catch this infection if they do not already have it and once again show the motoring world that we can be a force to be reckoned with. That we can show that innovative flair and spirit for which we are renowned. To all my ‘family’ worldwide I wish us good luck!
CSD_ChineseSaabDriver said on December 20, 2011
Great post. Thanks a lot.
davidgmills said on December 21, 2011
Since I have owned 15 Saabs, I too have seen a lot of Saabness.
But I have got to say that I have deep regrets that the public did not get to experience the NG 9-5. Of course I worry now with mine whether I will be able to get it fixed. But GM influence or not, it is a damn great car.
Maybe Saab’s real forte is taking the brands of other manufacturers and improving them and adding real value. I am sure that an Opel that is similar to a Saab is not nearly as good. I am sure that other GM products that are similar to the 9-5 are not as good.
My 2011 9-5 turbo premium was built like the financial lives of the autoworkers who put it together depended on the success of that car. I have had no other car like it, including my 15 other Saabs. Maybe Mueller knew how to build cars after all.
Again, what a shame the rest of the world will not get to experience this great car.
mallthus said on December 21, 2011
I guess it’s your good fortune that it’s built, by and large, from the GM parts bin!!!
Truthfully, my guess it that the spares group will be sold in the bankruptcy process and will continue to be a viable business, regardless of what happens to the rest of Saab.
Further, with the 9-5 having been ramped up for a bigger production run that actually resulted, you’ll probably wind up with better spares availability than would be the case for many other cars.
davidgmills said on December 21, 2011
When mine was in an accident recently, we couldn’t get the parts to fix the airbags. Took three months. I don’t know if Buick airbags would have worked or not, but we could not get Saab parts.
I am glad we got the parts before the bankruptcy filing or who knows how long I would be waiting.
Saabman said on December 20, 2011
I am afraid I think GM new that VM did not have enough money and at some time we would need cash and they could veto it. Saab goes they don’t get the heat as VM takes the heat…..
montahue said on December 21, 2011
According to the Swedish television (SVT) news show “Rapport” there is much interest in buying the whole bankruptcy estate. Youngman is after it and so is apparently the Turkish Government (??!).
davidgmills said on December 21, 2011
The Turks are bankrupt too aren’t they? But that would be a whole lot more interesting than the Chinese.
montahue said on December 21, 2011
Have no idea about their economy but they are not a part of the EU.
montahue said on December 21, 2011
But yes, interesting to say the least
Wittendorff said on December 21, 2011
The Turks have stated that they only want the technology. No production in Sweden. In my point od view the Turks would be a worst case solution.
mallthus said on December 21, 2011
I think the real issue here with GM is the bizarre actions Guy Lofalk took. VM always knew GM was going to be an issue when it came to the Chinese. That’s why he took steps in the early negotiations with Youngman and Pang Da to ensure that they were in the loop.
When Lofalk flew the coop and started trying to make deals with Geely and then the 100% deal with the Chinese, GM made it clear that they held the veto and would use it if these shenanigans continued. They continued nonetheless and by the time the last deal, with the (pardon the pun) Chinese wall between equity and lender roles for Youngman, came to pass, any good blood between SWAN and GM had been squandered.
There was a chance for a deal that would have passed GM’s criteria on October 7 (and by that I mean the Abu Dhabi deal, not the Geely deal). By October 10th, Saab was finished. Frankly, if I want to blame anyone else, it’d be VM for continuing to chase the Chinese after that date. I know he probably thought it made sense at the time and hindsight’s 20/20, but it was probably clear in GM’s response to the 100% deal that GM was going to be a problem when it came to the Chinese.
But, that’s just me and I wasn’t privy to all VM, GL, etc were. I still admire VM for his work ethic and efforts against, as it turned out, insurmountable adversity and he didn’t have the benefit of knowing, for certain, what we know now.
OliverH said on December 21, 2011
That’s the story we heard (bizarre action of GL). I think it’s the whole story itself and GMs thinking on the Go China strategy from Saab (get fast higher volumes). The 94x could have been a real competitor to the GM product. The 95, especially the 95sc, could have been a good selling car in the US, China and so on.
If negoations had been driven on a professional level Saab had been a MOU with GM or some kind of contract. The bankruptcy situation couldn’t never been reached which such a “surprise”.
We had acting GL as an administrator and behind VM also. That wasn’t good at all for the discussions with GM also.
Maybe GM is the right to blame. But i don’t like to do it. It’s a chain of failures. Saab was on a critical path. Time and man power was the problem to get other possible pathes. For the moment the situation is as is. Maybe we see Saab in any way comming up. Youngman will try to get secured their invest and expand with the Saab team and knowledge.
Angelo V. said on December 21, 2011
GM’s argument that “This sale will negatively affect shareholders” is laughable on the face of it. Here’s a question: Aside from VM selling Saab back to GM, how would ANY sale not negatively affect GM shareholders? In other words, wouldn’t the survival of any car brand, including Saab—-sold to someone OTHER than GM, be competition? And competition for any business, even if they only steal a few sales, negatively impacts shareholders. So if Saab was packaged for BMW, or Volkswagen, or Ford, or Mazda, or Suzuki, or Kia, or Mahindra or Wal-Mart or Hilton Hotels or Elton John—-if ANYBODY bought Saab and resumed production and sold cars in the same markets as Government Moochers (i.e. just about anywhere in the world), wouldn’t that in theory, cut into GM sales and negatively impact shareholders? GM is such a losing company—-such morons—-such spoiled children—-I hope they fall flat and I think that’s coming. They’re propped up now by millions and millions of tax dollars. In short order, they’ll fail again. It’s their destiny to make horrible decisions. I hope they fail sooner rather than later.
davidgmills said on December 21, 2011
Did you even read the article by the economist in the UK? If you did, you would understand exactly why this would impact shareholders much more than a sale to anyone else. GM is apparently doing great in China. China apparently loves Buicks that look a lot like Saabs and are being made and sold in China by GM’s partner in China.
GM really needs one partner in China making cars that look like Buicks and Saabs. One partner. Not two. Not three. One. It is selling a huge volume of cars there and it certainly does not need to have partners fighting with each other.
Angelo V. said on December 21, 2011
Did you even read my post? There are varying degrees of “being impacted.” As I said, a sale to any competitor (i.e. anyone who sells cars) would have the capacity to negatively affect shareholders. Period. The end. Would a sale to a Chinese company be more harmful to those shareholders? Probably. Maybe. A case could be made. But on the other hand, how long would it take for this venture to start seriously cutting into GM’s sales in China? Answer: A long time. How much volume would be needed? Answer: More than Saab’s plant in Sweden could handle. How long would it take to build your Buick lookalikes, with the same quality, in China? Answer: A long time. The actual reason GM was so opposed to Saab surviving is that at the core, they knew there was a potential for a turnaround and they couldn’t face the taxpayers they’ve fleeced (damn beggars) by having another company make a go of Saab when they floundered like jackasses for 20 years. Enough said.
davidgmills said on December 21, 2011
Such bullshit doesn’t deserve a response.
Angelo V. said on December 21, 2011
Doesn’t deserve a resopnse or you don’t have one?
Rune said on December 21, 2011
Manners.
Angelo V makes a good point. How long time would it take to start producing the 9-5 in China? At that point, GM will hopefully moved on and launched a new technology platform. It should not be much of a threat.
The real threat would be Phoenix, which is next generation technology at a cheaper price. And that is a threat that is still potentially there in case Youngman pushes on with their current plans.
montahue said on December 23, 2011
It’s a shame that the Chinese likes Buick’s better then Saab’s . But that does not explain why Ford sold 100% of Volvo and other IP-stuff to the greedy Chinese. One could ask why Ford makes deals with complete strangers while GM is to scared to sit down having a beer with the guy next doors
3cyl said on December 21, 2011
I’ve heard that in many ways Buicks are better than SAABs, I just haven’t been able to think of any.
davidgmills said on December 21, 2011
You can get parts for Buicks.
3cyl said on December 21, 2011
Yes, but then you have to drive it.
Baver said on December 21, 2011
Ha!
montahue said on December 21, 2011
You know a Sissy when you see him, that’s GM. Ford – Volvo – Chinese overlords – no fuzz -That’s the spirit!
Emil said on December 21, 2011
Thanks, till. Nice post.
I’ll add that I’m one of the engineers still officially employed by Saab Automobile (although I’m expecting to get the notice any one of the coming days), and last night I slept better than I have in a long time. I guess because the bankruptcy effectively put an end to the many months of uncertainty we’ve all endured. Another thing it did was ensure that any news and developments from now on must, by necessity, be positive; if you’re already lying face down on rock bottom it’s hard to imagine that things could possibly get any worse.
So, while I’m pretty sure I’m not supposed to feel this way not two days after learning that my employer’s gone belly-up, I’m actually feeling rather optimistic for the first time in a long while. I’ll enjoy this year’s christmas vacation a little extra, feeling curiously confident that the new year will bring good tidings
3cyl said on December 21, 2011
Emil, your a better man than most. And thanks for the great cars. After reading your post, I hope more than ever that there are more SAABs to come.
kochje said on December 21, 2011
We support your feelings, Emil, and hope that your wish will come through.
While we all look forward to the Griffin coming up again.
saabdealer said on December 21, 2011
My hope is someone with a voice makes it known that GM was given a life-line by the US taxpayers. Those same tax payers were slapped in the face yesterday by the very company we bailed out. ~190 US dealers and staff will suffer. US based suppliers will suffer. Saab owners will suffer. US, one of the biggest markets for Saab was spit on by GM after taking our tax money to continue their business. And there excuse, “we have to do what’s best for our shareholders.” Why not do what’s best for the people that allowed you to start over.
Now they’re riding in saying they’ll take care of the warranties on MY09 and back…This was always the plan but they’re going public to give them a good guy image. Unreal.
And now to hear that MY 10 and MY 11 Saabs will not be covered by warranty. The buyers of these cars are the only people that did anything to help Saab live after GM sale and now they are being punished. Shameful.
3cyl said on December 21, 2011
If SAAB is to go forward it will take backers with very deep pockets. If such backers materialize, they may be willing to pick up those warranties in a gesture of goodwill to SAAB’s most loyal customers. They will need those customers.
BMW Rider said on December 21, 2011
I’d be content at least if GM would step in with warranty on the post GM Saabs, they are essentially GM cars anyway and the liability wouldn’t be that huge or even that long term. I’d even consider a reasonably priced bumper to bumper warranty offered by GM for my new 9-5. It’s some goodwill that would go a long way to with the owners of these cars.
Angelo V. said on December 21, 2011
I’m spreading the word on Facebook and everywhere I can. Agree totally with you.
Baver said on December 21, 2011
+1
74StingSaab said on December 21, 2011
MY10 and 11 should be covered by Saab, not GM… why does the blame lay with GM?
davidgmills said on December 21, 2011
Well legally it may not have any liability. But many of us bought these cars knowing full well they were GM cars. And in fact GM just announced to the world that it would not sell to the Chinese because these cars supposedly have so much GM technology in them that GM’s technology needs to be protected. GM just blocked a sale that would have given these owners their warranties.
But most important of all, GM seller financed Saab to Spyker with the right to take Saab back if Spyker failed. If GM retains the right to take Spyker back, it seems to me GM should have to take Spyker’s liabilities along with its assets. Now GM probably had its lawyers work a loophole here, but the public will not appreciate GM’s get out of jail free card at all.
Irish Badger said on December 21, 2011
Don’t forget that GM was also given a bailout by European Governments – I am surprised that they haven’t made more a stink about it to be honest.
Baver said on December 21, 2011
They seem to be a bit preoccupied at the moment with the Euro zone nearing collapse, unfortunately.
Deborah VC Ronsani said on December 21, 2011
I’ve read through all the posts.. I have 3 saabs (two with over 200.000 and another with 125, 000 miles Totally love my saabs)and my daughter has a check in hand and is picking her 2009 95 tomorrow.. I’m worried about Parts.. for all four cars.. anyone have any clue as to what will happen with that.. ????.. Should she close the deal or walk away?? The dealer said right now..”No Parts”.. I just don’t know what to do this kid took out a 4 year loan , will she be ok to get it..
Baver said on December 21, 2011
Deborah,
Personally as an owner of a NO-Warranty 2011 9-5 Aero, and I really hate to say this, I would say walk away and see what happens in the next few weeks, if at all possible. If you are in the US and she does decide to go through with it, make sure she puts zero money down and buys GAP insurance (minimal expense) that will cover the difference in the value of the car vs. balance of loan in the event of a loss and it needs to be written off. I got the GAP, but put too much down.
Deborah VC Ronsani said on December 21, 2011
Baver..Thank You so much for the advice.. and I will take it.. I hate to see her paying a four year loan on a car that may not be able to be fixed after a year,, it’s taken her so long to save for the down payment and at 22 I hate to have her learn the hard way.. as for me and my three Saabs..grrrr.. and I love my saabs..
kochje said on December 21, 2011
For your Saab cars there will still be parts available.
The Saab Parts group is not affected by this bankruptcy.
3cyl said on December 21, 2011
If SAAB is to go forward it will take backers with very deep pockets. If such backers materialize, they may be willing to pick up those warranties in a gesture of goodwill to SAAB’s most loyal customers. They will need those customers.
Kahl said on December 21, 2011
I agree most of what you said here.
But, no one was to ACTIVELY drag Saab into bankruptcy.
Meaningless to blame anyone at this stage.
If anyone bring SAAB out of bankruptcy successfully,and that is a big ‘IF’, SAAB would be a different entity that may have different products and spirits to the ones we loved before. So it is meaningless to hope for something we don’t even know, either.
Let’s just hope employees get paid ASAP and creditors are compensated properly.
Angelo V. said on December 21, 2011
I love the brand. I love some of the dealers. I want to see more cars wearing the Saab emblem/name in the future. I choose to blame GM (my perogative) because they’re clowns and they are the most responsible for Saab’s failure. In my view, what I hope for isn’t meaningless.
Kahl said on December 21, 2011
GM is not responsible for Saab’s failure, blame GM as you wish, but I say it’s meaningless.
And you don’t know if potential buyers can and will put the Saab badge on the car they produce. This is the end for the Saab you’ve loved, accept it.
And you don’t know what it’s going to be…
Rune said on December 21, 2011
Kahl, GM has had plenty of chances to treat Saab fairly.
Already two years ago GM’s selection process seemed a bit odd…
And now… Saab managed to put in place an agreement with Youngman that doesn’t alter the owner structure at all, yet GM puts the foot down knowing full well that Saab is not fit to take this fight into the courts.
Pull the other one, it has bells on.
Kahl said on December 21, 2011
I know what you are talking about here.
So after all the blame work, any good has been done?
Speaking of responsibility for bankruptcy, you blame a former parent rather than current management? Your logic says we should blame owners who sold Saab to GM 20 years ago…But still, this is meaningless.
It’s ok you hate GM, that doesn’t work for me.
Rune said on December 21, 2011
Again: “Saab managed to put in place an agreement with Youngman that doesn’t alter the owner structure at all, yet GM puts the foot down knowing full well that Saab is not fit to take this fight into the courts.”
I am not blaming the former parent. I am blaming the company who pulled a technology license for no good reason.
Kahl said on December 21, 2011
Do you know when YM is entitled to convert that loan into ordinary shares?
Do you know how long GM is going to rely on its current technology?
Do you know how long SAIC will use the current GM IP to develop and produce their own cars in China?
Please give me some numbers otherwise you can’t say there is no good reason.
Rune said on December 22, 2011
Last week’s deal was that Youngman would be able to convert that loan after Saab had engineered away all the GM technology.
That was the entire point of the deal. That is why VM was upset when GM flatly refused. That is why we are all a bit edgy now.
davidgmills said on December 21, 2011
Saab lost $780 million in the year after GM bought half of Saab. Was that GM’s fault as well? Saab was in serious shape when GM first put its money down on Saab. The owners of Saab at the time were looking to unload it and GM took the bait.
3cyl said on December 21, 2011
I don’t know if there were other serious buyers that would have done a better job managing the SAAB brand when GM bought in. If not, SAAB probably would have failed years ago and we can thank GM for keeping SAAB going all these years, even if we think GM could have done better. It is somewhat like the Harley Davidson AMF period. AMF is considered to have managed the brand poorly, but even AMF’s critics concede that HD would not have survived if AMF had not stepped in. Of course, the subsequent buyout of HD from AMF went a lot better than the Spyker purchase of SAAB. GM may share blame for this, but at the end of the day, HD made their business plan work and Spyker didn’t.
saabsessing said on December 21, 2011
I see Saab reemerging as a smaller automotive engineering consulting firm / automaker that makes creative use of off-the-shelf components to build its own unique & innovative niche-market car, while providing manufacturing & engineering services to other companies – not unlike Lotus.
Long live Saab!! Saab och Trollhättan ska segra!!
davidgmills said on December 21, 2011
Saab should just buy other manufacturer’s cars and fix them to Saab standards. Probably Saab’s best chance. A Saab BMW. A Saab Audi. A Saab Mercedes. A Saab Jaguar. Etc.
michaelb said on December 21, 2011
I think you are right, that a slim hope is still there. At this stage, there is nothing to be done about it. Potential buyers probably will be prepared and have their initial thougths sorted out. It is important, that things happen very fast, because the Saab factory, people, network will now fall apart rapidly. But I am sure the administrators are aware of that.
The best solution would be a large European manufacturer with multi-brand culture. They don’t need GM IP and will be able to turn around the operation in a much broader sense. The next best solution would be somebody who comes along with GM to find a way to tackle with IP rights, in order that Saab could resume production in THN in H1 2012 and even get 9-4x deliveries. YM is just third choice, as I don’t see GM give them any IP rights now after bankrupcty and their claims against Saab worthless. Still it is better than nothing, as at least part of the employees could keep their job. The worst actually would be GM.
With respect to VM’s role, it is not the time to make an assessment – neither positive, as you do, nor negative. From distance, it is not just “he surely made some mistakes”, as you write. Since a full year, his actions were just one severe mistake after the other. But it is not good style to beat upon somebody, who tried, but failed, and is beaten down to the floor in every respect. Surely not before Christmas. With distance, however, a critical judgment will be useful and necessary, as more facts will be known as well.
Thylmuc said on December 21, 2011
Which one do you refer to? Volkswagen or Fiat?
Neither Daimler nor BMW would qualify as “large”. PSA has not shown any ambitions, Renault is still trying to merge with Samsung, though I had suggested them, since they also once tried to buy Volvo.
michaelb said on December 21, 2011
Resourcewise, VW would be the strongest backing, both financially and technically, with large experience in moving ailing and existing brands upmarket. I do not know if it would be the best solution for Saab’s engineering department, though, as certain overlaps would exist.
For Fiat, Saab under certain conditions could become the center of global premium car research and development. The current solution with rebadging Chrysler and selling them as Lancias is an offense to that brand’s heritage. Alfa is on own feets and sees a revival, but primarily in small cars as the Mito and the Giulia. Larger cars such as 166 successor or a CUV / SUV are missing. However, given its precarious cash flow position in Italy and Europe, and the uncertain outlook for a turnaround of Chrysler in the US, I doubt about Mr. Marchionne’s willingness to put 1-2 bn EUR in the 2-3 following years at risk.
BMW would be an excellent fit and surely is big enough financially, Daimler impossible. PSA is wrongly positioned overall, with too much small and lower middle class models. For them, Saab could be the right ticket to enter the premium or at least upper middle class market. Given their French stronghold, I doubt about their capacity to lead Saab succesfully.
Jarkko said on December 21, 2011
Why was Ford willing to sell Volvo to the Chinese but GM did not accept this? Was Ford so desperate a couple of years ago – or did Ford receive good money by selling but here GM did not get a penny (not from the sale – only royalties from cars produced)?
DanSaab said on December 21, 2011
No, because Ford cares about it’s image and their customers so much better then GM!
Pedro said on December 21, 2011
Ford does not have a huge partner/presence in China, like GM does, and thus does not have to balance those “odd sensibilities” on the negotiating table the same way GM does.
meccano said on December 21, 2011
Victor Muller is a hero for trying to save Saab for two years while GM is the enemy after trying for two decades. It is so boring and useless to beat up GM but I guess it is nice for some to have a common enemy during dark times of desperation. I do hope you realize it is neither helpful or insightful.
highlatitude said on December 21, 2011
If a new owner is to appear, it must happen quickly. The assembly line equipment – conveyors, overhead cranes, work slides, tool and die, moulding machines, robotic welders, etc – will soon be sold as scrap or to industrial wholesalers. A new factory would need to be outfitted. The cost is astronomical, almost unfathomable, and is the reason why even the largest automakers use as many interchangeable parts as possible and schedule refreshes on even the most popular vehicles only once every three to five years. Very few investors were willing to invest large sums on an ailing SAAB with an intact factory. Who would consider an investment with this additional burden?
ArchDandy said on December 21, 2011
Well. Now we all have to look forward. There is hopefully some investor who want´s to build up Saab again. This bankrupsy can be a fresh start, something new.
I felt last week that everything was so infected, just more and more problems, with just everything. Like Saab falling slowly falling apart. Now Saab is sleeping and recovering, and nobody knows when Saab is waking up again and in which condition. It will take time to recovery, but it will unfortunately be better day by day. Better to start somwhere than not start at all.
OliverH said on December 21, 2011
I think Magna is more likely in a position to find a solution with GM to rescue Saab in a hole. They can make contracts with the chinese let’s say to only sell the 93 in china to get around the issue with GM. Youngman can do their development with new products in the joint venture. Magna can later profit from a better entry to the chinese market and do a cooperation.
bpsorrel said on December 21, 2011
That sounds like a great solution! Fingers crossed!!
biritter said on December 21, 2011
Everyone is blaming GM… but there is one side no one is hearing from, or blaming (although there is no evidence on which to lay blame)… and that is GM’s Chinese partners. GM has a very big business in China, has a lot at stake, and very likely wants to keep its Chinese partners happy…or at least not anger them. For all we know GM is saying no, because their Chinese partners don’t want the deal done, or perhaps there are contractual obligations between GM & their partners that make such a Saab deal a no go… and GM for many reasons is keeping their mouth shut to deflect “blame” away from their partners. Plausible, sure. Evidence, none.
GerritN said on December 21, 2011
See my interpretation of the Victor Muller interview below.
GerritN said on December 21, 2011
I just had time to listen to the interview that the Dutch AutoVisie (of Telegraaf news paper) had with Victor Muller.
Unfortunately the title of the interview is “Victor Muller chooses Audi” because of an honest reply from Victor. The interview is a very honest one (from both Victor and the guy interviewing him), unfortunately De Telegraaf didn’t disappoint me by screwing up the title in their quest for sensationalism. Still, I recommend this interview for those who can understand it, lots of interesting information.
I don’t have enough time to do a direct translation (I’m actually ‘participating’ in a telephone conference as I’m typing this, so forgive any errors), but I’ll try lift some juicy snippets.
- All dealings between Saab and PangDa/Youngman were flying under the (GM) radar until Lofalk offered 100% ownership to PangDa. The Shanghai Automotive Industry Corporation immediately balked at this chance of having Saabs with GM IP invading their territory, talked to partner GM and basically blocked everything from there on. Thanks Mr. Lofalk!
- The official name for the new Phoenix based Saab would have been the Saab 900.
- The expected price per non-exclusive license for using the Phoenix platform is 70 to 100 million Euros. So the Phoenix platform is the biggest asset.
- Swedish Automobile only consists of Spyker. North Street Capital does not want to buy Spyker anymore! There seems to be a Californian investing company interested. Victor states that Swedish Automobile will, after the sale of Spyker, just be an empty shell with a lot of debts.
- Victor gauges the chance of Saab restarting somehow as 50/50. This chance is shrinking rapidly with time, not only because suitors running away (there seem to be about 10 serious one right now) but also because of Saab engineers moving to other jobs.
A last remark. I keep on being disgusted by the overall response in The Netherlands to whatever Victor Muller is doing. Again, the majority of the responses to this interview are very negative towards Victor. He shrugs this off, but I’m really sick of these people with their uninformed opinions (it’s clear that most of them didn’t even listen to the interview before posting their comments!) and their plain envy of a person that works his butt off in the pursuit of his passions. I don’t particularly sympathize with his investers, they all knew that these were risky investments.
As far as the title “Victor Muller chooses Audi” is concerned. What Victor said in response to the question what he was going to do with the 9-5 that he is currently driving: I maybe will go back to driving an Audi S8 because I’m close to crying whenever I look at my 9-5. Anyone who has followed this whole drama unfold knows what he means.
saabserb said on December 21, 2011
I really respect VM but this about SAAB/Pang Da/Youngman flying under GM’s radar is just BS. I don’t believe for a moment that the original setup would have been approved by GM/SAIC! For Gods sake the Chinese had more then 50% ownership, why would SAIC/GM let them go with that plan and not with 0%?
hilmar said on December 21, 2011
Thanks for the information/translation.Therewith the whole issue is a bit more understandable. But I think VM actually must have expected that GM could/would block for what reason ever – saving their IP ? – the Chinese or any other deal. I instantly hope there exists a strategy to avoid GM.
kochje said on December 21, 2011
Agree with you Gerrit; this is a typical Dutch reaction; the guy is not beloved in his own country.
Just pure jealousy. “Zij kunnen de zon gewoon niet in het water zien schijnen”
Pedro said on December 23, 2011
North Street Capital does not want to buy Spyker anymore? Interesting…
mnztr said on December 21, 2011
I agree with the point of this article. But my question is, how involved was GM in the negotiations. There came a point though, where they should have been much more forthright. What I think they were doing was hoping the deal would die on it’s own without them killing it. Now that GM has killed it, they become liable for the hundreds of millions in losses attached to it’s failure. If it had died on it’s own they would have not been liable. I suspect Victor knew 100% how it would go down MUCH earlier then he let on, but he needed to attach liability to GM so he could sue them to recover his losses…which is why he kept pushing.
hughw said on December 21, 2011
Just a thought and I may not fully understand the situation. But it would seem to me that all the debt that Saab has incurred is now gone, debt to GM, debt to the EIB, debt to NSC, or whoever. YM felt it made economic sense to buy Saab for 100M euro knowing that they had to take on all that debt. They also of course were in a sense buying GM IP. If YM, or Magna, or some other entity, comes in now and buys the whole ball of wax for 100M or 200M or whatever, free of debt, they could conceivably put a lot of money on the table to pay license fees to GM, or to Saab Aero for the name. There are certainly many instances of companies licensing techonology to competitors as long as they make a buck off of it.
Lundin said on December 21, 2011
You would think that would make sense, even a very good idea,dont you? I agree. Actually,I think most people, on a board there to make money, would agree.
BUT no hugh, we are not just talking about any board here, we are talkig about the board of GM here so forget it.
CSD_ChineseSaabDriver said on December 21, 2011
I am not sure if GM will now soften their stand, for example to let the current 93 to be built.
RS said on December 21, 2011
Lundin, I think the factory/current production should be bought by someone GM trusts and the Phoenix development kept totally separate in the JV which is still owned by both YM and SWAN?
If the new 9-1, 9-3, 9-5, 9-7 etc. have nothing in common with the GM based cars that roll out of the factory there shouldn’t be any IP issues either.
It could work especially if Detroit makes good money on the 9-3, 9-4X, 9-5 licenses? The JV in return could license factory time ones the new models are ready for production.
The company that owns the plant would be free to build cars for whomever they like (even ovloV
), that way it wouldn’t be so Saab sales dependent even after the new cars sales take off slowly.
An arrangement like that should be good in terms of revenue, workforce stability and job security.
RS said on December 21, 2011
*even if the new model’s sales would starts off slow. (where has the edit button gone?)
Lundin said on December 22, 2011
RS, yeah i agree with the sandboxed concept. That was more or less where the deal was progressing towards but you extended and tweaked it a bit and i like it. =)
Also,the plant buyer not only gets the ability to produce vehicles,they can do a deal with Parts on doing body-parts production (becuase they got the tools).
I am not sure GM is willing to put more time into it, they have already taken the loss in their books and written it all off…that’s what counts for them.
Iron out the GM IP..well might work, after all there is no such thing like a magic GM box more like a scheme.The CAN components etc can be bought by any supplier and put together, however the verification and validation will take very long time as it does in this field (this is my experience from very small component changes).But it can be done,that is what counts.
I really really hope GM is willing to listen to potential owners and concepts though,
Selle said on December 21, 2011
First of all: WOW! I didn’t knew that Saab was really, really, really popular outside Trollhättan and Sweden! Thank YOU ALL for the support!
)) It makes us here in Trollhättan very warm inside! I myself have followed this mess from General Motors even since the first start between Saab and that little sportcar company from Ängelholm who now makes Ferrari-killers was at SVT (Swedens Televison) and in papers like Aftonbladet.
I was realistic back then and I knew that they (Koenigsegg Automotive AB) couldn’t take care of it mostly because their recources was limited. It’s like if Ferrari was alone and decided to buy Alfa Romeo for example. The ekvation couldn’t fit in.
But just somehow from the blue sky, Mr. Victor Muller and his Spyker Cars decided to go all-in, AND they got GM:s blessing too. Now many tought that Saab would finally start producing cars like before, but even then they (and Spyker Cars) didn’t had enough money to maintain everything. Unfortunalty, because Mr. Victor Muller was (and still is) smart and brave who tried to do something noone other did. I feel ahame of myself when our stupid media harrased him for Mr. Vladimir Antonov and other similar things. And I felt very sad when Mr. Guy Lofalk betrayed Mr. Victor Muller and entire Saab Automobile AB, took the things in his hands and tried to do something stupid on his own. And the americans in General Motors, who are afriad of that mighty red dragon in distant east.
You can’t just imagine how many parents I met who talked about everything to me (I am a school teacher so I meet many parents) and who told me everything that happend, insideout. Mostly of those parents were working in the office and developed all kind of things for the cars.
So yes, this breaks our harts here in Trollhättan. Saab Musem will dissapear, every history we knew from Saab will dissapear. Everything! This has striked our city really bad, but somehow many hasn’t gived up the hope, no matter how dark it is now.
I Think General Motors shall be ashamed of themselves, mostly because Ford let Volvo go to Geely despite that Ford had also “borrowed” their tech to the Volvo-cars like GM did to Saab. As one angy swedish citizan said in Aftonbladet this week: “May all chinese carmanufacturers eat You alive, GM!”. But as we speak here now, Ms. Rachel Pang is here in our little town and will try to solve some things between GM and Saab Automobile AB – or what’s left of it now. Media here is saying that Youngman will possibly buy enitre company, while others say that Volkswagen AG (yes, the germans) accoriding to Sveriges Radio P4 will maybe buy it. However, both of these companies will have the production here in Trollhättan.
So friends, don’t give up on Saab! Please! Because we in Trollhättan NEVER WILL GIVE UP! And let just hope that those superb engineers who worked on the Phoneix-plattform don’t dissapear to Porsche (yes, now we can read in TTELA Porsche-ads!). Then only then Saab will survive!
God Jul!
hilmar said on December 21, 2011
Thumbs up ! All the best for you in THN ! But first – Merry Christmas / God Jul – to you.
kochje said on December 21, 2011
We support you all in Trollhättan and I promise that I will come over to visit the Saab museum.
So make sure it stays there, complete.
CSD_ChineseSaabDriver said on December 21, 2011
If Saab is saved this time, I with my family will drive to Sweden to see the Saab museum
Allan B said on December 21, 2011
God Jul!
orion said on December 21, 2011
@selle, thank you for your story. There will (must) be a way out .This bankruptcy is a “bottom” to start something new for Saab, i’m sure. Beste whishes for Christmas overthere in Trollhättan, God Jul!
terry9000k said on December 21, 2011
Selle
Re; ”General Motors, who are afriad of that mighty red dragon in distant east”
On this I think you are wrong, they [GM] are afraid of the Red griffin on ALL Saab cars…….
My sincere good wishes to everyone that has helped our amazing Car Co, and as is said here: ”never, ever Give up!!……..” [>VM,]
mnztr said on December 22, 2011
Selle, yes there are many, many people around the world thinking of Trollhatten. So many brands have come and gone, but very few have had such strong emotional support. Perhaps Youngman or VW will save SAAB, I dearly hope they do. But the heart of SAAB is in Trollhattan, many good things about Sweden are represented in SAAB. A bit serious, quality without being too flashy. Good design without being impractical. A sense of solidity. It’s all there. I wish everyone in Trollhattan the very best in spite of the GM Grinch. Merry Christmas and may there be more SAABs in our future.
3cyl said on December 21, 2011
Since we are doing some fantasizing here, I’ll propose Bugatti as a buyer. They could use a somewhat more entry car, and if they bring back a modern version of the SAAB horseshoe grill there will be a family resemblance.
OliverH said on December 21, 2011
Bugatti? Isn’t it a daughter from VW?
3cyl said on December 21, 2011
In that case, forget about my proposal..
dcpattie said on December 21, 2011
I’ll play along. How about Mazda? They could move up market on the cheap and slowly switch the tech over. Ford’s share in Mazda is only around 10% so I can’t see any issues there. Also Subaru (Fuji Heavy Motors).
Paul said on December 21, 2011
I have often thought that Subaru might be a good buyer for Saab (not sure if the Saabaru has anything to do with that thought or not) for the same reasons you mention that Saab would be good for Mazda. I hadn’t thought of Mazda before, but they would make sense too. Both seem like solid car companies, both seem to have an individual approach that might be a nice fit. (Both happen to be on my short list of cars I’d look into if I had to).
terry9000k said on December 21, 2011
SWADE Signs off:
http://inside.saab.com/goodbye-from-inside-saab-for-now/#disqus_thread
Baver said on December 21, 2011
Sad
CSD_ChineseSaabDriver said on December 21, 2011
Sad, too sad. Wish him good luck ………..
TurboLover said on December 22, 2011
Were are you heddin’ Swade?
DanSaab said on December 22, 2011
He said that he signs off for now only, which means that he might be back pretty soon if everything goes well! So keep calm and carry on everybody
EuroDriver said on December 21, 2011
Any news on who the ten players are that are interested in Saab? I’ve heard some big shots are among the ten. All in all I think Saab has a chance to be revived.
terry9000k said on December 22, 2011
‘
Oh, how I HATE GM……..Shame on you!!!!
Angelo V. said on December 22, 2011
What goes around, comes around. Call it Karma—-but Government Moochers is destined to fail. Right now, they are backed with tens of millions of taxpayer dollars to cover their butts. In time, their arrogance and poor management will doom them. It’s not a matter of if, but a matter of when. Their competitors build better cars and are smarter in running their companies. In the marketplace, that still matters. I really don’t see GM getting bailed out again, regardless of who’s in charge in Washington, DC. And make no mistake about it—-there will come a time when they are on the brink of disaster again. As I said, it’s destiny. They’ve pared down to their cheapest division, their most expensive division and their second most expensive division—-all U.S. entities. Oh, and the truck division that offers sister vehicles to everything Chevrolet offers, as if that isn’t redundant. Import fighter Saturn is gone, import Saab is gone, sporty performance and lower priced Pontiac is gone, Oldsmobile and Hummer are gone. Frankly, the Pontiac Solstice and Saturn Sky, the small Hummer, the Saab line and some of the last Oldsmobiles made are more interesting than any of the affordable cars GM still offers. And as I said on an earlier post—-the design direction of Cadillac is starting to look old already. That whole sharp angle Hot Wheels look was really welcome at first—-something fresh and different for Cadillac. But it’s not aging well. They’re starting to be the Detroit Rapper’s image car instead of a timeless luxury car. Right now, if I had that kind of money to spend, I’d be at Lincoln or an import dealer. A few years from now, current BMWs will look great and current Cadillacs will look ridiculous.
Angelo V. said on December 22, 2011
Oh, and to clarify—–I’m referring to their U.S. sales and operations. The whole notion of a “product based recovery” for GM is nonsense. A year and a half ago, we were hearing about how the Chevy Volt would lead GM to “greener pastures” (puns intended for ecology and money making). So far, no-go. I live in the Washington, DC area—-heavily populated, many affluent people—-and I can count on one hand how many Volts I’ve seen on the road—-ever.
3cyl said on December 22, 2011
Angelo, would it be correct to assume that you are not a fan of GM?
Angelo V. said on December 23, 2011
3cyl: I have owned more GM products than any other, including: 2 Chevrolets, 3 Cadillacs, 2 Buicks, 1 Pontiac, 1 Saab. That’s 10, count them, TEN GM products, in the last 22 years. My family has owned countless GMs, including many Oldsmobiles, Buicks, Cadillacs—-a Pontiac and Chevy for good measure. Is it correct to assume that I am not a fan of GM? Yes, NOW it is, as of Monday. Quite frankly, their irrational behavior in this episode has eroded my confidence in them to an all time low and prior to General Motors blocking the recently proposed sale of Saab, they would have been first on my list for car shopping—-after Saab. Now, they aren’t on the list. I’m done with them.
3cyl said on December 23, 2011
Angelo, as hard as it is, we should forget about GM for now and have a Merry Christmas. I’ll be driving on Christmas Eve in my SAAB, which will help put me in the Holiday Spirit.
Angelo V. said on December 23, 2011
You’re right about having a Merry Christmas! But can’t we send a pile of coal to GM headquarters?
3cyl said on December 23, 2011
Too bad someone didn’t think of that sooner. Everyone on this site could have sent GM a lump for Christmas.
Talladegan said on December 22, 2011
Does anyone know if there’s video footage anywhere of Victor addressing the employees to announce the bankruptcy and receiving the applause? I would live to see that.
Daniel B said on December 22, 2011
There seams to be reason for a modest optimism according to SR P4 West:
http://sverigesradio.se/sida/artikel.aspx?programid=125&artikel=4870614
In Swedish by anyway..
900_S said on December 22, 2011
Inspiring words, Till
I hold onto that hope as well, but I won’t be surprised if nothing comes of it.
DanSaab said on December 22, 2011
Found this:
http://carfanaticsforum.com/thread-12083-post-158997.html#pid158997
DanSaab said on December 22, 2011
No one has confirmed anything yet so keep calm and carry on!
Paul said on December 22, 2011
I’m in with Till72, and I’m stil buying a New SAAB with or without warranty..