We must save the Museum
December 23, 2011 in SAAB Automobile AB, SaabsUnited Related
This are the words written in countless of e-mails sent to us! And yes, I have been thinking exactly that for the past 6 months and have investigated greatly in what would be required if such a thing would be done, this is no easy task!
What most people don’t realize is how extreme this task is, it would be the one biggest single thing any fan-group would have done ever! It is an extreme financial undertaking! I have had contact with Peter Bäckström, the custodian of the Saab Museum in this matter a few months ago. I have had contact with lawyers, banks and many more regarding this issue so please take the things I’m writing below VERY seriously!
First of all, FORGET a foundation, it takes too much time, too many people involved, too complex legally, finding the right people all with the same commitment, dedication and opinions on how things should be run is more or less impossible. The ONLY viable solution is that a company is created to buy the Museum. This company is run by a CEO with a board of directors. The CEO is one person, he/she runs the place the way he thinks is right and everyone will have to accept that! The required method is a bit like the military, but it is the only way that could work in the long run! Too many ingredients and the soup don’t taste too good…
One thing that is absolutely important in terms of funding such a thing and that is to calculate with zero income for the first two years, until procedures, average visitors rates, power, water, waste etc etc etc costs can be assured. Any company that is started up needs to estimate a negative result for the first two years at least, this is sound business and any accountant will tell you exactly that!
These are the steps required:
- A serious estimation of the value of each car in the museum plus the amount of money required to restore the car to a drivable condition considering paint job, interior, tires, and maintenance, cleaning for at least 5 years. Those extra costs covered over 5 years is aprox an average value of a normal cars running costs which is aprox 25% of the money required to buy it, which would be a fair estimation in this case.
- Facilites, the facilities must be financed preferably with a purchase to keep the monthly costs down, if not the rent for the first two years needs to covered in the initial buyout.
- Insurance for all the cars. Usually a facility insurance will cover the cars inside, but with the value of the cars this insurance cost is a considerable amount.
- Cleaning of the facilities. Everything that is not the cars themselves needs to stay clean as well. With people walking in and out with shoes they use outside as well consider that the facilities need serious cleaning at least twice per week including lavatories etc.
- Staff, a minimum staff of 5 people is required to run the museum from 0900 – 1800, one person at a time including staff for the weekends. Their costs need to be included in the initial buy and a minimum of two years worth of wages needs to be included.
- Electricity, water, heating, waste, air-conditioning etc… those things are expensive!
There are things one could do to make money, print posters, books, photos, postcards, meetings, attendance fees etc. But these types of income don’t come even close to the amount of money to cover the costs of running the place. There are also funding that could be sought from for example the European Union, The Government etc, but to do this legal advice is required which also costs money!
Running costs for the museum in its current state is about 650’000 Euro’s per year. One could maybe get 10% of that through sales, which means that the rest will have to be covered by continuous funding, about 585’000 Euro’s per year. Lets say that 20% of the 125’000 unique visitors here on SU are willing or able to take part in this deal, that is 25000 persons which means that each person would need to contribute with 240 euro’s per year! so about 20 Euro’s per month, how ever you look at it, it is a lot of money! If only half are willing, the cost for the rest is doubled. With business you always need to calculate with a worst case and best case scenario and hope that you end up somewhere in the middle… I’ve been working with a business that me and some friends owned for a few years so I have first hand experience in that!
It’s very easy to say that we’re going to gather up some money and then buy the museum, but as you see there are tons of other things to consider! And forget politicians helping, I don’t trust them…
As a test before anyone wants to jump into this kind of thing, I would suggest that we contact the administrators and ask if we can buy one 9-5 SportsCombi. These cars will probably be scrapped =( Now I know they are all prototype registered and have a users certificate from Saab Automobile. But since Saab does not exist anymore no such certificate is valid, so that car would become a static display car only and never be driven other than in enclosed spaces. Now SU could do this, we have a company, no charity, but we could sell a product which people can pay whatever they want for, and that money, ALL OF IT would go buying such a car, it would be a first step… now if we’re able to do that, then we can consider something else.
It’s not enough to just gather up some money to buy the cars, who is going to take care of them?, what are they worth? are they for sale? Where would you place them? Who could take care of it all locally? Anyone who suggests this needs to have a plan! A very thought trough serious long term and realistic plan!
And for now, I know that Victor Muller is working extremely hard on saving Saab, Museum and everything else as one complete package which is in no doubt the best way to do that!. Lets let him try it first! But we have a plan, if he should fail…
BMW Rider said on December 23, 2011
Contact Jay Leno. Seriously.
TimR said on December 23, 2011
Yep, thats the kind of money that is required…
davew said on December 23, 2011
Just let us know what we can do to help!
KoGa said on December 23, 2011
Agreed, might be a good idea.
DUTCH900C said on December 23, 2011
What a great idea!
Tobbe said on December 23, 2011
And he also likes Saab.. if do not want to buy it, He might have some contacts… big man..
PJPHughes said on December 23, 2011
I completely agree! I see him driving around LA/Burbank in all sorts of cars, and he often buys car literature at the Autobooks Aerobooks store. He’s got a ton of power in the auto industry…almost always gets the first model of a lot of high end cars that come to the US.
scand said on December 23, 2011
Maybe it’s different in sweden, but a foundation / non profit would be the way to go if it was the US.
There ought to be lots of people willing to invest in a car, especially a classic museum quality one, that has appreciating value. I was at a customers house the other day, and he had 30 cars there, including old alfa’s, duisenbergs, packhards, etc. All in working order, all in a temperature controlled garage. Several have won pebble beach, so there had to have been north of $50 m worth of cars there.
When it comes to classic cars, there is a lot of money around.
TimR said on December 23, 2011
Yep, but in Sweden a foundation is strictly controlled by the government and setting one up is a HUGE task time wise and you need to find the right people. Believe me, I have investigated that for more than two months! It’s a no-go…
scand said on December 23, 2011
Get in touch with the Wallenberg family. Financially, you just need to got straight to as high as you can go. If nothing else, they can point you in the right direction.
Didn’t they used to own part of Saab?
TimR said on December 23, 2011
Investor, one of their investment companies owned Saab for a few years, they were in it to make profit which they didn’t so they sold it to GM… They make money, not charity…
Either people here want to save the museum themselves with the above considerations or let Victor work in peace! =)
mattea said on December 23, 2011
We let Victor work, but if anyone could introduce him for the H&M owner maby
terry9000k said on December 23, 2011
@ # 23.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wealthiest_charitable_foundations
Most large rich people have a large taxable income & hence quite often give contributions/some away, that they can then claim against their tax obligations.
KoGa said on December 23, 2011
TimR, are these running cost somewhat official, do they come from Mr. Bäckström or other reliable sources?
Also, can we find how much it would cost obtaining a 95SC?
I’m wondering if there are any other parties interested in investing in the Museum. Maybe the city of Trollhattan however they will probably have bigger problems too
But I can imagine other institutions interested as well.
I think we still have to wait to find out what’s going to happen with the museum, but if things comes to worst I’m willing to invest a limited amount of money.
TimR said on December 23, 2011
The figures are official… they have also been quoted in newspapers locally and here on SU in a previous post…
The problem with other parties are to find them and to make sure what their intentions are! Most other parties are looking for a way to make profit and since the museum does not make profit its a very difficult thing to do… =(
KoGa said on December 23, 2011
Current figures are a great start to estimate the future cost of keeping the museum alive. Is there any way we can maybe get details on these costs from official sources? For example you mention that the museum itself does not own the building, are they paying a rent or something?
By other parties I meant museums, other foundations, etc. who may be interested in keeping this exhibit alive. We might be able to come up with a list of names and contact them to see if they’re interested at all.
NC said on December 23, 2011
What about the Trollhattan municipality? I am sure it was on SU they the museum belongs to the city, not to Saab, and as such will keep going under any scenario.
TimR said on December 23, 2011
Forget about them! They are not interested… the management of the municipality have made that very clear in the newspapers…
The municipality owns the facilities in which the museum is located in… not the museum…
Goose said on December 23, 2011
Do you mean that they won’t participate at all – not even for one single euro? I read somewhere on this site that it is too burdensome for the municipality to acquire the museum and cover the losses. Fair enough, however, I would be very surprised if they are totally ignorant for this great initiative and would not be willing to participate for a bigger stake than the average SU-reader wil do (at least give a discount on rent payments).
For me personally, I would love to participate and, as a shareholder, partially own those great cars!
Ralph said on December 23, 2011
Subsidies from the government is the way to look into first, I guess. If there really is legal advice needed to figure out the details on how to go about getting those subsidies, then figure out a price for the advice and try to get money only for that from the community.
TimR said on December 23, 2011
First thing you need to find out how much money you need!
Ralph said on December 23, 2011
For sure. Maybe search for similar type and size museums, maybe there’s a Volvo museum for example. Then ask them about their financials.
TimR said on December 23, 2011
Nope, you need an actual figure…! No estimate!
Ralph said on December 23, 2011
Actual to a degree of course. Nobody can know the exact costs beforehand.
TimR said on December 23, 2011
Well thats exactly what you need to find out, you need to know exactly what is in the inventory and go to the museum and find out what each car is worth!
You can’t bid for something if you don’t know what it’s worth!
Ralph said on December 23, 2011
I’ve read here’s a section of Saab that does parts and is still functioning without financial troubles. If they could become the new legal owner and then apply for subsidy from the Swedish ministry of culture (or technology) for the running costs? It’s not a foundation and the commitment and dedication will be there.
TimR said on December 23, 2011
Saab Parts is business, made to make money, pure and simple… they are currently owned by Saab Automobile AB and are themselves victim to pawns placed at Saab. Saab Parts is the guarantee for the NDO for the EIB loan.
Please trust me when I say that no company will invest in the museum, its not something that companies do! It needs to be private people investing in such a case!
terry9000k said on December 23, 2011
Assuming, as you say above, that the figure suggested are correct, then Tim, produce a working estimate of what, where & how the thing will run [with some suggestions on the CEO] and email it to every SU member, so they can ponder over it.
They can then estimate, what commitment they could give & even forward it onto other wealthy investors/tax savers.
MariusGTV said on December 23, 2011
Have you thought about sponsorship from other Swedish and international companies? Perhaps they would be willing to put in some money for the sponsoring of individual cars. Perhaps scientific agencies like the Swedish Museum of Science [if there is one] or similar institutions would consider this. Every little helps and it might take some of the burden off and allow you to set up a compay to run and maintain the museum. I will watch with interest and offer help if I can.
TimR said on December 23, 2011
One big problem with sponsors is that they are not a fixed value that you can calculate with on long term… Every businessplan need to be for 5 years, no company will sign a sponsorship agreement for 5 years. You also need to consider what they have to gain from that, how will you reward them etc, they will require something from you for their money…
Ken H said on December 23, 2011
Maybe one choice is whether it should be a running museum or just a display museum? To keep the cars in running order must be tenfolds more expensive than just caring so that they don’t rot away.
In my opinion, a private initiative just can’t aim to keep a running museum. Unless Jay Leno joins…
Talking about Leno, why not ask him? SaabsUnited is a household name, he’d surely not ignore you.
Ralph said on December 23, 2011
It’s worth it, although he probably gets many similar requests weekly…
TimR said on December 23, 2011
First we need a plan! Cost-calculations etc… tons of work to be done! who will do that? I know I don’t have the time for that right now =( It would mean hundreds of hours of work, unpaid work! by several people!
I suggest you guys open up a spread sheet and start counting… count on the costs for 10 cars to start of with… thats a good start, then you’ll realize what it actually costs. And yes for the collection to be worth visiting you will need to keep the cars in more or less working condition…
Ken H said on December 23, 2011
Tim, I did not want to jump in as an sofa-expert, that would be an insult considering what you have done so far.
When I visit a car museum, I personally don’t think so much about whether the car runs or not. That’s where my thoughts came from.
I hope for the best, and you done a hell of a job in any case, Tim!
Tilley said on December 23, 2011
Victor never fails….certain people and certain companies fail him.
mpprh said on December 23, 2011
I think you need to carefully research the cost of the car.
I may be out of date, but the reason prototypes and very early cars were scrapped was because they were allowed to be used for a limited period of development without MOMS being applied. MOMS is based on the “cost” of the car, and an early prototype could easily cost several million Kroner.
Once the development period was ended, MOMS was due regardless of if it was intended for registration and road use – hence the scrapping.
TimR said on December 23, 2011
Good point, MOMS or VAT is 25% in Sweden…
OliverH said on December 23, 2011
Has MOMS been a case with a foundation (Swedish or foreign)?
OliverH said on December 23, 2011
But if MOMS is an issue the cars are protected or is the value of the car the estimated time value or the costs to be built?
Anyway the cars have to been sold to a Switzerland company/ Foundation as we have 8% VAT/ MOMS.
TimR said on December 23, 2011
You must distinguish between sold to and sold by… these things will be sold by a Swedish company or organization how ever you look at it so the 25% VAT will need to be paid… can not be avoided…
OliverH said on December 23, 2011
If the cars are sold to switzerland Swedish tax is not to be paid as its export to a foreign country. VAT must be paid in switzerland. But if the cars are placed in Sweden the Swedish tax authority can ask for a security which is again the 25%.
terry9000k said on December 24, 2011
Firstly, was the development completed or [subject to Saab not now being bankrupt] was it ongoing. The reason, was this tax yet payable?
The MON [VAT] surely would be due from Saab automobiles AB. At least the VAT on the large development costs you mention, so that would be a claim against the bankrupt Co, albeit, probably a priority debt, being VAT..
Even if the cars are then sold to The Saab museum, I would assume the amount sold for is the amount the VAT is charged on.
VAT is reclaimable as an input for a VAT registered business, so assumably The Saab museum is charging VAT on it’s activities, ie; sales, on tickets etc.
As far as it being a Swiss Co [and hence only 8%] that buys these, this would not matter, as the Sale is in Sweden, so that Countries MON vat applies, but again that could be reclaimed by the buying Co.
Ralph said on December 23, 2011
Any Saab lovers in the Swedish Royal family?
terry9000k said on December 23, 2011
The King, I believe
kochje said on December 23, 2011
The value of all cars together must by now be known by the that group which did place the inventory stickers on all cars in order to claim the cars in case of bankruptcy?
Can’t we ask them what they value the collection at?
TimR said on December 23, 2011
I think the best idea is to go there in person together with some people who really know Saab, perhaps some experts in different Saab Clubs could join in and then estimate the value of the cars… that way we know exactly what we think that they are worth…
KoGa said on December 23, 2011
The museum should already have some estimates… if there’s a contact person in the museum itself, we could get all these infirmation from them as long as they’re allowed to provide it. But all that information should become public to interested parties during the bankrupcy proceedings.
XC99TF00 said on December 23, 2011
Ok, so I’m not sure exactly how bankruptcy procedings work in Sweden, but could we the people who are willing to contribute to such a cause potentially buy the debt from whichever company has first rights? For example, first lien debt here in the US would have rights to the assets prior to subsequent debtors and then equity holders thereafter. In buying the most senior debt, the rights could potentially be used to take the cars as the debt payment, without the intrusion of others trying to use the cars as the collateral for their debts. There is a secondary market for this type of debt, and frequently in such a situation it could be bought at a discount so that they no longer would have to worry about getting the funding.
Ok, it probably is not feasible, but it was just a thought that had crossed my mind while I sat here trying to figure out a different way to get our collective hands on the collection, so it could remain as a whole.
terry9000k said on December 23, 2011
Not sure this is workable after Bankruptcy, before, maybe.
But their debts are likely to be quite high/ Also if I remeber they only put stickers on a few cars, not the whole collection…
Henrik B. said on December 23, 2011
How about the entrence-income? Today 40 – 60,000 people are visiting the museum each year. If they pay 50,- SEK each, in entrance-fee, it’s 25,000,000 mio SEK per year (approx. €2,800,000.-). In my book, that should more than sufficient to run the museum – or very close to anyway!
Cheers!
Henrik B. said on December 23, 2011
Oh, and the expected salesprice for the museum-inventory (incl. cars), is approx. €560,000.-
Cheers!
TimR said on December 23, 2011
As far as I’ve heard the average amount of visitors per day is between 10-30, so a maximum of about 10k visitors. 25% of the entrance price is VAT.
So only 37 SEK (entrance fee) x 9000 (30×300 days open) people = 333’000 SEK in total (€37’082)
skwdenyer said on December 23, 2011
Sorry, your maths is wrong. VAT is 25%, which is added on top of the ‘base’ price. So if you take the VAT-incusive price (say €50), then the VAT is €10, i.e. 20% of the total. To make it clear: base price €40 + 25% VAT (€10) = €50 VAT-inclusive price.
So, your calculation should be:
10k visitors x 40SEK (VAT-exclusive entrance fee) x 9000 = 400k SEK.
Now, two other important things:
1. How many people will continue to come if SAAB dies?
2. Why are they only paying 50SEK to get in?
TimR said on December 24, 2011
well 400k SEK means that there is still 4,6 million missing…
Peter G. said on December 23, 2011
What about Saab AB, the aerospace company? They probably have enough money to run something like that. And it’s part of their heritage too…
TimR said on December 23, 2011
They have their own aviation museum which they support…
Chris Hansel said on December 23, 2011
Tim, What about a agreement amoung the worlds principal Saabs clubs to create an income stream, or the operating budget, of the Museum. Perhaps they could add 2 or 3 dollars per year to their membership costs for each member for each club. And this money could be passed on to Sweden where, perhaps, SU could forward it to the correct people to pay the bills. This would take a lot of setting up and lawyers working on international agreements. It would not be easy, but at least you might be able to could up with the type of money you need. Let us say we all joined, if you are not currently in a Saab club, and that around the world that would total perhaps, 200,000 people. Now you add $2 to each yearly membership and before you know it you have $ 400,000 to turn over to the muesum. Yes, I know a lot of watchdogs and checking would be needed.
There is a lot of talk here about what other people should to to help in this or that, it’s time to stand up. You can start it off by requesting donantions for SU members, and viewers at say $ 10.00 per year.But you need the organized clubs. They tend to last, and will be around for a very long time. They will not move on to the next big thing as some of your younger viewers might.
Just an idea.
TimR said on December 23, 2011
Thats a nice idea, we’re trying to get all the Saab Clubs to agree on a meeting on the same weekend right now (we are many we are saab meetings), just doing that is a difficult thing. Trying to get them all to agree on something like giving us money I think is very difficult…
kochje said on December 23, 2011
The idea is indeed not bad at all; if we already could achieve that this will be put on the agenda of each club?
TimR said on December 24, 2011
The problem is, we have not achieved it… most clubs have done nothing to participate so far! Almost every event is created by private people or dealers!
terry9000k said on December 24, 2011
This sound interesting.
One of the problems with indivigal contributors is will they keep paying year in, year out.
The amount mentioned here, added to a Club yearly membership, is quite small compared to the larger contributions mentioned above.
And, as skwdenyer mentions above, what are the attendance figures likely to be, IF Saab does die….
Any attendance calculation would have to be based on low figures to be realistic in costs.
Mandy said on December 23, 2011
In the city of Motala in Sweden there is the Motala Motor Museum. Privately owned by a local man, think owner of a chain of Expert photo stores. Could he be interested in contributing to a Saab Museum? In order to raise money, could Saab items be manufactured and sold both ahead of aquiring the museum if needed f.ex. through a SU webshop, local Saab fan clubs, Saab dealers and later also inside the Saab museum if/when it gets up and running. Postcards of different Saab models,Saab T-shirts, Saab guest books, Saab deck of cards, Saab small place mats for glasses, Saab history book, Saab caps, Saab key rings, Saab pens, Saab place mats, Saab seat foldable “flat cushion like item” made by a harder than foam similar material to use to sit upon as you sit outside on a bench, stone wall or any place outside, Saab tea mugs, Saab note books, Saab “window shadows” (?) this which you place in the car windows once parked not to get hot inside by the sun plus whatever other Saab items one could find out to manufacture.
TimR said on December 24, 2011
Make a business case with each one of those, how much would the cost to produce, what can you charge for them, how many would buy and what would you earn? do that for each item and check how much time you’ve spent on all of that and consider if its worth it…
Please try! I have…
terry9000k said on December 24, 2011
Particularly as ebay [and the likes] is swamped with such items
UK:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/Clothes-Shoes-Accessories-/11450/i.html?_nkw=saab&_catref=1&_sac=1&_trksid=p3286.c0.m1538
derek said on December 23, 2011
Consider selling the museum to the Valmet museum in Finland that has lots of Saabs. I know this is probably a hated idea but it is better than nothing.
Another possibility is to beg the Volvo Museum to see if they will create some space for Saab. Still another is to see if the maritime museum in Gothenburg is willing to host some Saabs.
TimR said on December 24, 2011
Why don’t you call them and ask?
Goose said on December 23, 2011
Perhaps we can collect part of the funding among participants of the 14/15th of January events?
WooDz said on December 23, 2011
I’m sorry but I can’t get 650000 Euro to go into 25000 people 240 times. the calculation comes out as 26 (which would be 26 Euro)
If you take 650000 and divide by 240 the answer is 2708,333333 (2708 people)
So the way I see it is a poll should be done to find out how many people would seriously be willing to invest over 2 years and at what price.
>50 Euro
>100 Euro
>200 Euro
>500 Euro
Naturally as the invest increases less people can invest but the difference between 50 and 500 Euro over 2 years is (from what I can workout) is 26,000 people and 2,600 people.
I will tell you this; if there is one car that most people would like SU to own. It would have to be the AeroX not a 9-5 Sportcombi.
mike900 said on December 24, 2011
Yeah…. I get just under €24 per year, not €240?
TimR said on December 24, 2011
I seriously wonder if anyone actually read what I wrote, because as far as I see it, nobody got the point!
DO NOT come up with wild ideas of companies who can do this and that, forget it, its never going to happen!, Forget about people giving money, you can not count on that as a viable income within a businessplan! You need to come up with products that could be sold, services provided so that -650k Euro becomes +100k Euro every year. If you can do that without a single contribution form anyone, then you’ve got a start!
emmany3 said on December 24, 2011
TimR, I read your post! This isn’t my strong suit, but I will help in any way I can!
Snowshoe said on December 24, 2011
A slightly different approach. What do we want to achieve?
In my view it is to make sure that the collection is not scattered into pieces. If the collection would not be open for view for one or two years does not really matter does it?
FIrst step should be to acquire the collection and have enough funds for storage and insurance.
When the dust has settled there is either a profitable company producing the children of Saab and that company would love to display the heritage,
On the other side we have the worst scenario where Saab is totally wiped out. In this case it is totally up to the Saab spirit.
But the priority should be to secure the collectin first and worry about exhibition later.
Cost for purchase and cost for storage in two years. In those two years there is more time to find solutions. Don’t try to eat the whole elephant in one meal….
TimR said on December 24, 2011
Priority 1: How can we maintain cash-flow to store the cars, where should they be moved to and how, who will maintain them, what is the insurance cost!
Priority 2: Who will get the money? Establish the organization with the right people
Priority 3: Can you buy them at all? Contact the administrators and see if it is at all what they want, they own the stuff…
Priority 4: Get the money to do what you have planned to do!
terry9000k said on December 24, 2011
I get your pint about ”the whole elephant”, but, 2 years from now, Saab may just be a memory from the past & as the existing cars on the roads, get older, they will become less & less.
Hence many of the dedicated Saaber’s will be moving on, sadly.
TimR, do you any knowledge what Saab, currently pay the Council, for the premises on a yearly basis [sorry if I missed it somewhere]. I would have thought a deal could be done with them, after all, something is better than nothing atall.
TimR said on December 24, 2011
I know that, but there is no point in trying to save the thing now if it will be lost after a year or two… And you will not be able to buy it since the administrators of the bankruptcy will want to se a substantial plan for the running of the museum…
You simply can’t just show up with a bunch of money, it doesn’t work that way! Saab had a principle that was very important: Correct way from the start!….
Snowshoe said on December 24, 2011
Of course there is a point of saving the cars NOW if the alternative is that the collection is spread over the world.
Yes it might fail after two years but that is not a certainty is it?
The best would of course be a solution where the museum can just continue but if that is not possible then the second best is to just secure the collection, It can take some time to get the whole thing into place.
Aero1 said on December 24, 2011
Not sure of the laws in Sweden, but I have been involved with 2 seperate Foundations here in the U.S., pertaining to the S.S. Unitted States.
It is not that hard to set up, here anyways and with a good set up we had a lot of members. It all comes down to money.
I however feel none of the above will be needed, as SAAB will be saved as a whole!
Robban said on December 24, 2011
Personal opinion:
I’m sorry, but please let this go, there is only 2, possible 3 owners of the SAAB car museum and they are as follows: Saab Automobile AB, Trollhättan municipality, Västra Götaland County, and yes I am telling you that this is the only way. I get that you all want to help in some extent, but in reality it just wouldn’t work. It’s alot of “maybes and could and woulds” and what do you mean by a negative result in the first two years? The museum will always, and I mean ALWAYS show up negative numbers. I’ve said it before and I’m saying this again, it would get out of hand if some guys just decided to try and fix money from everywhere and start a company with the outset to buy and run the museum, COME ON, please get real. And what do you mean by buying a 9-5SC to see if they want this for real and that they are committed, if you have to do that first it’s certainly not going to work, buying and running a museum versus buying a car? What has that to do with anything, really? The ONLY way to make this work is to have the “politicians” sort this out and buy the contents of the museum and run the museum, maybe not in the extent as we do it now, open everyday 11-16 but maybe just be open on the weekends during the “off-season”. And the ONLY way you can help is to gather money to give, yes GIVE to the politicians ( preferably the ones in Trollhättan municipality then) to ease the running of the museum.
And it needs alot more than 5 people to run the place, I can assure you of that.
This article just makes me angry because it’s just like all the other gold-diggers out there, trying to fix a sweet deal with alot of help from alot of people and then in reality it’s just a few people that will actually control the museum and doing so get hold of and own a big collection of very, VERY special SAAB cars.
I’m sorry if you find this a bit on the rage side but really, get real!
I sincerely hopes that a solution is found ASAP and someone buys SAAB Automobile AB and all it’s contents, and get things rolling.
TimR said on December 24, 2011
I agree with you!
terry9000k said on December 24, 2011
If you agree Tim, what was the point of this post, ”We must save the Museum”?.
akis96 said on December 24, 2011
It would be great if we had more detailed numbers. How much money needs to be spent on personel, rent, etc.
If the city of Trollhättan can’t afford to pay for the museum the least thing they can do – since they own the building where the museum is located at – give it to the museum rent-free. That would help I guess. If you want to save on personel-costs limit the opening hours let’s say from 10am to 5pm – one person less needed to run it. I Think the € 630.k/year are much to high. Talk to a different insurance comp. and lower the rates.
If a ticket will cost € 40 only very few folks will drop by.
Saab is a big family. Saab is a car for families. If I’d visit the museum with wife and let’s say two kids I don’t want to spend a fortune. It has remain payable.
Discounts for Saab-Club members would be great. Perhaps each Club would donate some money each year. I’m a board member of the Austrian Saab-Club (ca. 65 members only) but I am sure our members and our club would love to help out.
If the museum was run by a foundation each club could buy some shares. well need to go – merry x-mas to everybody
Gatelaw said on December 26, 2011
First and foremost, one person need to step up and devote time and energy on getting a complete list of all the facts on what it takes for any serious organization of person to keep the Saab museum alive, and the various ways that this could be done. TimR has done some good ground work on what it would take to run the museum as a business. But what about as an association?
To even consider buying the collection of the museum you need to have the money before you even consider such an action. Even though it is possible for everyone with an interest in Saab to pool resources, it would take time to round up that money. Even to save the collection for a future museum there are still huge costs involved, as TimR have explained, just to have the collection in (safe) storage.
I belive an association or a foundation is the best way to keep the museum available for the future. But if Saab Automobile really goes under, the only options for a museum would be for the municipality, county or the government to control that association or foundation to which anyone can donate funds for operating expences.
What some responsible person could do is to coordinate phonecalls and lobby various parties to commit to join a foundation or association. The only viable way for such a scenario to come true is for several parties to join together, but it takes a whole lot of wooing politicans to get them to play ball and join the effort. If the municipality, county, the government, Saab AB, Saab Automobile receivers, the Saab dealers (network) and the Saab community/Saab Clubs all joined forces behind a foundation or an association – this could be a viable enterprise. But someone needs to coordinate all parties.
Question is, is or have Victor Muller explored this avenue? He has prooven himself extremely capable and ingenious over the years, but I would love to find out if this particular route has been explored by him. Do you know, TimR, or could forward him this particular question?
Would the receivers be willing to contribute to such a solution? Or maybe they already have offers that are more profitable for the creditors? Or will get offers on part or whole of the collection.