Youngman in Trollhättan on Wednesday
December 21, 2011 in News
TTELA:
Youngman and the CEO Rachel Pang has not given up hope on Saab. This is confirmed by Johan Nylén, lawyer at the firm Baker McKenzie in Stockholm who are representing Youngman.
- They will arrive in Sweden wednesday to meet with the administrators. The management for the company are very disappointed with GM’s decision this weekend, but they are very interested in finding a solution. De will try to act fast. They are interested in Saab’s development, Saab Powertrain and the Phoenix technology. In reality they are interested in trying to save as much as possible of the current operations in Trollhättan.
Johan Nylén describes a layout thats based on trying to avoid the obstacles that could be put in place by GM. The hope is to be able to build todays version of the 9-3, which is not an obstacle with GM and then use the Phoenix technology in coming generations or cars.
- The time frame for a new model is about 2 years, its a question of a transition period.In interviews with chinese media yesterday, after the bankruptcy was a fact, Rachel Pang said that there was a great asset in the Phoenix technology.
Rachel Pang also talks about the swedish development company Swedish Saab Automobile Development. The impression is that the youngman-ceo gives is that youngman would partly have rights to some of the technology developed for the next generation Saab-cars.
This will surly be an issue for negotiation since all Saab’s assets are now part of the bankruptcy package?
- Yes, Youngman has invested 60 million Euro in Saab and paid for licenses, say Johan NylénOn the question on what will happen next, Rachel Pang explains to the chinese media that Youngman now wants to move on and set up operations in Sweden and also mentions the range of Saab models which was to be developed with the Phoenix-technology, such as the 9-1, 9-6 and 9-7 on top of the base-models of 9-3 and 9-5.
According to sources to TTELA, several other chinese companies have expressed interest in Saab, who they are we’ll probably know shortly but its probably established chinese car companies.
ivo 71 said on December 21, 2011
I’m sorry to perhaps temper everyone’s enthousiasm on the morning after the day before but, in all the various statements by YM and its rep, I have not once read it said in so many words or even hinted at that YM are actually planning to resume the production of cars in Sweden. They want Powertrain, R&D and would develop new car (the 9-1 through 9-something series) in Sweden in the new joint development venture as well but nothing about actually building cars in Sweden in the next several years. Or have I missed something?
Still, if, as Rachel Pang seems to hint, GM is supposedly OK with Saab -even under Chinese ownership- continuing to build the current 9-3 but not the NG 9-5 then why couldn’t the deal be made that encompasses the NG 9-5 NOT being sold in China but, if it is to be sold at all, only in Europe, the USA etc. where it wouldn’t hurt GM’s partners such as SAIC? Or just not build he NG 9-5 at all but only the 9-3 as a stopgap solution until there are new versions of both models containing zero GM IP?
I would be very happy to concede I’m totally wrong if someone can provide a different, better founded point of view.
Ivo
ivo 71 said on December 21, 2011
Sorry, I just saw that YM would want to keep building the current 9-3 until the Phoenix-based one is production-ripe. They would have to do that in THN as I wonder if their own assembly facility in China can do it without the tooling, a network of dedicated quality suppliers and the disgust the general public feels for China-built cars.
Ivo
saabserb said on December 21, 2011
@Ivo: I am more then aware that all you say will probably be true. In Youngman gets SAAB, the current SAAB 9-3 will be produced in Sweden, but after that nobody knows. Most probably will Youngman try to move the production to China, at least some of it.
Another thing that may be crucial is that SAAB name transfer would require the production to stay in Sweden, but nobody knows if Youngman really wants to keep the name either.
Youngman is in Sweden to at least try to protect their already invested capital. Also they are pretty much aware of what SAAB is, they got much knowledge during the negotiations process, so I think they are ready with the offer. They have advantage compared to the rest of the interested parts, which might be crucial. I don’t know if the receivers are willing to wait much for the others, I guess they have some time to wait, but not that much.
fido said on December 21, 2011
@lvo
Mr Pang qinnian (chairman of Youngman) told to chinese newspaper, Youngman will buy SWAN’s share in JV company, then 100% own the JV company, and buy SAAB Powertrain and R&D, and use Trollhatan as base, produce new models locally and sell to worldwide market.
jond said on December 21, 2011
What JV company? If YM and SWAN set up a JV company and transferred assets from Saab Automobile to the JV company (such as non-exclusive rights to the Phoenix Technology) then that would in effect be the transfer of valuable assets from the dying Saab directly to SWAN, bypassing the interests of prior stakeholders, such as creditors. Is this legal in Sweden?
ivo 71 said on December 21, 2011
Saab sold those non-exclusive Phoenix license rights to YM for about 3.3 million EUR before the company went into reconstruction. That is a regular business transaction so no so-called Paulian-action problem should arise there.
As far as I could find, the JV was also set up before the reconstruction so no problems there either, I believe. Besides, Swan setting up a joint venture with Youngman – that isn’t doing anything and so costs nothing right now but is a vehicle for the possible future- doesn’t cost the creditors of Saab anything. Those of Swan maybe a bit or two but that is of no concern to the bankruptcy administrators of Saab as Swan is not Swedish, isn’t bankrupt and has no creditors in Sweden AFAIK.
VM is not stupid, you know.
Ivo
jond said on December 21, 2011
@ivo 71
OK, thanks Ivo (do I owe you a fee?). However, what raised my antennae was that Mr Pang seems to think that he should be buying out the rest of the JV rather than all the assets of Saab Automobile and its subsidiaries. If Mr Pang wants to buy it, then it must have a value, I thought. He’s not stupid either. So, how did that value arise? Might it have arisen to the detriment of the other stakeholders in Saab Automobile (in bankruptcy) I wondered? But really I don’t know what I’m talking about, so thanks for putting me straight on this one.
ivo 71 said on December 21, 2011
Well, he didn’t say how much he is willing to pay for it, did he? And the JV hasn’t been set up with an enormous share capital, I suppose. Or maybe it’s a side deal with Muller/Swan to help alleviate the losses Muller sustains from the bankruptcy of Saab. Make no mistake, the Saab adventure is costing VM many millions in private, plus there is the money he c.q. Helvetia c.q. Tenaci borrowed to buy Saab from GM at the time against future business and share trade profits. I doubt Antonov, Mubadala and other shareholders of SWAN are pleased with the return on their investments right now.
BTW, feel free to come up with a fee
. A nice copy/concept job would be fine.
Ivo
RS said on December 21, 2011
I sure hope Youngman knows a reborn Saab WITHOUT Swedish production would alienate 95% of the current buyers. As someone said here, it is vital to have R&D close to the factory in order to make immediate improvements to the product and processes when needed.
The whole idea with these cars are that they’re built to survive the conditions around the Arctic circle 24/7/365. They got to be developed and manufactured here. That’s why the cars were so darn good even during the clueless GM ownership.
ivo 71 said on December 21, 2011
@ fido. I read that too now and already corrected my first comment.
Ivo
Vintinck said on December 21, 2011
Just a thought, If the US Government would have let GM go under, the IP wouldn’t have been an issue if someone were to have purchased SAAB out of Liquidation at that time. Bad for GM but could have been great for SAAB. They still have over 40 Billion on loan…
TonymacUK said on December 21, 2011
I cannot see ANY Chinese Company being allowed by GM to manufacture SAAB cars that contain GM technology – and that includes the 9-3. Youngman might as well pack their bags and go home. Magna (second time around) might have a better chance if the rumours of their interest are true – but I doubt it, given the Canadian government`s involvement.
reindeer said on December 21, 2011
Jan Acke where are you?!
ivo 71 said on December 22, 2011
Home, enjoying the company of his wife and his grandchildren. That’s what JAJ said he would do when he said goodbye.
Ivo
cagan erdil said on December 21, 2011
Back in 2008, Koenigsegg sent this letter to a Turkish Consortium. on making a bid for Saab.sale.
http://www.bookmarkin.com/news/latest-world-business-finance-economy-news/saab-i-beraber-satin-almak-icin-daha-once-turkiye-ye-mektup-yazilmis-letter-sent-to-turkey-for-saab-sale/
a href=”http://www.bookmarkin.com/news/latest-world-business-finance-economy-news/saab-i-beraber-satin-almak-icin-daha-once-turkiye-ye-mektup-yazilmis-letter-sent-to-turkey-for-saab-sale/” title=”">
ivo 71 said on December 22, 2011
If I understand the gogletransed text correctly then this letter is actually very recent. The 2008 bit refers to Koenigsegg’s attempt to buy Saab themselves. But I’m not surprised that K-egg would be interested in co-operating with some cash-rich Asian partner to get involved in Saab again. On their own, they just don’t have enough financial resouces. Maybe to buy Saab at a bankruptcy price, yes, but not to resurrect the brand the way it should be done.
It would be interesting to know how the Turkish newspaper got hold of the -authentically sounding and factually correct- letter. I would expect such communicaions to be highly confidential if the Turkish interest in Saab was serious.
Ivo
cagan erdil said on December 22, 2011
Ivo, its a big Newspaper, and they have their channels to get insider info. According to them, it is from 2008. but nearly the same senario with 2011.
I guess, they wanted to prove, indeed there was some interest to acquire Saab from Turkish companies, even in 2008, when Saab had the first round of financial troubles.Some memos went back and forth, even then..