Youngman in Sweden
January 30, 2012 in News
According to P4 West a delegation from Youngman is arriving in Sweden with a goal, to place a bid for Saab.
It’s been one and a half month since the Saab CEO Victor Muller stepped into the district court of Vänersborg and filed for the bankruptcy of Saab. And now, more than ever, the picture of potential buyers is becoming more and more clear.
According to the administrators, four, perhaps five are serious buyers and wants to buy the whole lot.
Among these, three have marked their interested publicly. Chinese Youngman, Turkish Brightwell Holdings and Manhindra from India. In addition to these there are also Swedish parties interested but who they are remains unclear.
Today staff from the management of Youngman will arrive in Stockholm, with a goal to place a bid for Saab during their stay.
Turkish Brightwell are also ready to place a bid as soon as the administrators are able to receive it. Mahindra have remained in Trollhättan and Sweden to try to catch up with the lead that Youngman currently has. The struggle is tough according to a source with great insight.
- It will be very exiting to see who in the end will be able to buy the remains of Saab.
But there is a big issue, it is still very unclear if the remains of Saab will be sold as one whole entity, the big issue is time or to be more correct, money. For every day that passes Saab is drained of more money and if the bankruptcy administrators are unable to find a complete solution before they run out of money, bits and pieces need to be sold off.
- We are in discussions with different parties and we hope that we’ll get a solution within the next couple of weeks. We are forced to do this considering the financial situation we are currently in Hans Bergqvist, one of the administrators told the news agency TT this weekend.
Original article here: http://sverigesradio.se/sida/gruppsida.aspx?programid=125&grupp=12994&artikel=4936937
jond said on January 30, 2012
If Rachel is bringing her Dad, then it must be with serious intent this time.
M.A. said on January 30, 2012
This is becoming a race.
Nick said on January 30, 2012
Feels a bit like the administrators are preparing media and fans that they are going to sell it in pieces. If they sell something on the side I think its over to sell the rest to one company. Lawyers are scary sometimes!
Red J said on January 30, 2012
I would love to know, at which rate is this process burning cash, and how is this cash being used.
It can’t be, that Saab burns 3 Million Euros in two weeks only on energy costs.
bpsorrel said on January 30, 2012
Lawyer’s wages…
OliverH said on January 30, 2012
16 Mil SEK? I think this amount was told by someone..
Red J said on January 30, 2012
And why don’t they get paid after a successful transaction?
Ralph said on January 30, 2012
The serious buyers could get together and decide to each pay an equal part of those costs until one of them gets the deal.
Mark said on January 30, 2012
If there are enough buyers who want to buy Saab as a whole entity and that is the administrators preferred option, then I see little reason why that should not happen. Selling Saab off in parts could take a very long time, possibly even years and even more losses would be incurred in the process. That would be an undesirable outcome for just about everyone.
John said on January 30, 2012
Just about everyone except the lawyers that is. The longer they drag this on the longer they get paid.
Turboladdade said on January 30, 2012
The longer this takes, the bigger the fiasco this becomes, and most of all a failure in the end would make it more difficult for these lawyers to obtain big clients like this in the future. The worse track record a lawyer has, the less appealing they are.
kochje said on January 30, 2012
you are right; we must have trust in them and as a result see a new owner of the whole Saab company soon.
nordican said on January 30, 2012
Is Magna still in the race ??
M.A. said on January 30, 2012
The administrators seems to have said they are going to sell surplus equipment like engines.
http://www.thelocal.se/38792/20120130/
scmit02 said on January 30, 2012
Makes sense. If GM doesn’t want to license tech to a new buyer, the engines are worth more as spare parts/replacements than to one of the new suitors.
Would Saab Parts be able to buy the engines?
Vagabond said on January 30, 2012
May the best team win!
Hans H said on January 30, 2012
As long as GM loses…
MikeSf said on January 30, 2012
+1
Angelo V. said on January 30, 2012
+1 more
SaabKen said on January 30, 2012
GM is a …….. loser
Angelo V. said on January 31, 2012
Truer words never spoken. GM Sucks.
jim said on January 31, 2012
Never read such true words ever before!!
Kimberly said on January 30, 2012
If they have the money it takes to get SAAB up and running and to help the dealer network, that SAAB engineers need to be allowed to design and implement and not just cobble together something workable from GM’s parts pin, and understand SAAB needs to advertise and up the bar on performance on interior materials or lower the MSRP, and they need to advertise, this would be the preferred way to go. That way, SAAB will remain a wholly European car company over the long term, and the revenue from SAAB will help maintain Trollhatten’s local economy.
Saabissimo said on January 30, 2012
About Swedish bidders – I would be very surprised if a Swedish bidder would emerge for the whole package. I believe that the Swedish bidders referred to are people like the consultancy firm Semcon who were rumoured (or confirmed, don’t remember) to be interested in the R&D part of Saab, but not production.
If none of the “kitchen sink” bidders are coming up with the goods eventually, I guess a possible outcome is to sell off R&D to guys like Semcon and production to guys like VW/Skoda, who also were rumoured to be in the bidding, mostly interested in production capacity.
But obviously it would be nicer if one of the bidders who want the whole package comes out on top.
JohnDarrenwood said on January 30, 2012
Could the mystery Swedish investors be the Wallenberg family? After all they originally owned Saab, sold it for a packet and could now get it back for a song.
jond said on January 30, 2012
I doubt whether they would get it for a song if they’re now competing against YM and M&M. All told this will be an expensive investment for the successful bidder.
Vagabond said on January 30, 2012
As Robert J. Ringer said in his book, “Winning through Intimidation”, every time a deal is about to close, a lot of other people come out of the woodwork and try to say they’re interested, when they were nowhere to be found previously.
Paddan said on January 30, 2012
A bit OT but reports are coming in that Sweden has paid the EIB loan…SWAN used 217 of the 400 Euros available. I guess that would be added to the tab before Swedish approved any deal.
fanofsaab said on January 30, 2012
I’m very curious to know how confident readers of Saabs United are that Saab will be bought as a whole with production remaining in Sweden.. What percent are you?
Ralph said on January 30, 2012
Impossible to say if you’re not at the negotiation table…
Henrik B. said on January 30, 2012
Could it be Volvo (Geely)? They can’t buy Saab directly, but what about buying Saab through Volvo?
Cheers!
dave lewis said on January 30, 2012
That would make too much sense. It would give Saab a better chance of remaining in Sweden. With 2 manufacturers in the same country under the same management, there could be many parts from the Volvo side that could be used underneath a Saab without touching the Saab look.
SaabKen said on January 30, 2012
That would be weird, like the PSA Group:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PSA_Peugeot_Citro%C3%ABn
zippy said on January 30, 2012
Kinda like a Swedish solution but Im still rooting for Mahindra.
Henrik B. said on January 31, 2012
Well, Mahindra is a known interested part. Volvo (Geely) could be one of the unknown…
Cheers!
OliverH said on January 30, 2012
I’ve heard production at Volvo is booked out for up one year on some models. So they need more production capacity.
saaburban said on January 30, 2012
Question:
- Who has a functioning dealership that market scandinavian cars?
- Who has swedish / english as a corporate language?
- Who uses the same engineering consultancy companies in sweden to develop cars?
- Who is building factories in china, that can produce and sell cars in the largest market in the world?
- Who needs Saabs xwd-electric technology
- What car brand is currently independent, and need to siblings to make anextended auto group.
- What manufacturer other than GM has the most to loose if saab became successful especially in China.
Volvo, volvo, volvo, volvo, volvo, volvo, Volvo
KoGa said on January 30, 2012
Unlikely although I read that they really need a new base platform as their current models are still based on Ford technology. PhoeniX could be useful for them.
MikeSf said on January 30, 2012
Positive thoughts going out to all parties involved (especially the currently out of work employees).
jocke said on January 30, 2012
P 4 west tomorrow at 9. The administrators talk about bankruptcy and answer questions. What this mean I dont know. Anyone?
OliverH said on January 30, 2012
Getting speed on the process and pressure to the ones placing a bid. Wasn’t the last announcement: The highest bid wins.
Jelmer said on January 30, 2012
In the Netherlands we have this saying “when two dogs are fighting over a bone the third one takes it and is gone” somehow i have the feeling this wil happen in the Saab deal….
CSD_ChineseSaabDriver said on January 30, 2012
Indeed this could happen.
It depends on the bankruptcy administrators, if they THINK party C is better than A and B, then C becomes the winner.
Yah winner, in what sense we can not predict yet, because restarting Saab really costs a lot of money.
M.A. said on January 30, 2012
Who knows, maybe the secret 4th bidder is on the lead.
I guess at the end we will hear something like :”And the winner is…..”
bender said on January 30, 2012
I was just wondering if anyone can clear up for me the GM situation, as it stands now. Has anything changed, after the bankruptcy? Does GM need to have a say anymore? Or is Saab planning on moving forth without any GM technologies ?
Red J said on January 30, 2012
Bender, the situation is slightly different.
While GM can still say if they want to licence things (e.g, 9-5, 9-4x) to the future owner of Saab, they can’t veto the selling process. So whoever buys Saab, either is negotiating with GM, so they have products to sell, or they know how to produce those products without the need of a GM license.
Known is that the 9-5 and 9-4x are GM products build by Saab under license, or build for Saab by GM, but I still don’t know if this is also the case for the 9-3.
orion said on January 30, 2012
Red J, There is something in your statement i don’t follow. You say: “Known is that the 9-5 and 9-4x are GM products”, What i understand is that the technics are (partly and licensed) GM, The design is SAAB’s, right? Designed in the period of VM (i guess). This means that the new owner, who ever it will be, will have the rights to build these cars again, as long as you build them whitout the GM parts. I’m not a lawyer but the 9-4x, 9-5 is not lost yet, i think. We must not give up hope for possible options in this matter.
Red J said on January 31, 2012
No, the 9-5 was build by Saab under license from GM. It was completely developed anther the GM ownership. Yes the design is Saab, and yes the engines are “tuned” by Saab, and yes the XWD was designed by Saab and the chassis was created mostly by Saab, but still being a part of GM.
So the answer is no, you can’t build a 9-5 or 9-4x without a license from GM.
Angelo V. said on January 31, 2012
Red J: Does GM own the rights to the design—-as in the body stamping? In other words, not that this is likely to happen—-but if someone wanted to build the 9-5 and/or 9-4, could they make a car that looks exactly like those vehicles, but with completely different engines/transmissions/accessories—-just leaving the body panels/styling the same?
xelav said on January 30, 2012
Well, Volvo is going to build only max . 2 liter petrolengines with turbo in the near future, with all different hp, like vag tsi 1.4 engine. Mayby they need more customers for that engine to make it profitable. Saab could be that one. ??
Saabo said on January 30, 2012
It´s a strange situation. There have to be a quick solution, but the bidding can not start before all assets have been valued by the administrators. They wants to keep the company going on low speed until they can sell it as a unit, but in the meantime money are pouring out of the company and they might have to sell of parts that will lower both the interest and the value of the company.
I really hope for a quick bidding race now!
xelav said on January 30, 2012
That ‘s maybe one of the reasons why geely is planning to produce 2 Volvo models in China ?
kochje said on January 30, 2012
For me it does not matter that much who will be the dog who will get this “bone”, as long as it is a dog with enough bones to feed his family for a very long time and be the start of an enormous family.
But do not take too much time anymore while we are all getting nervous.
Saab up
StefanH STHLM (www.bmsg.se/saab sales.pdf) said on January 30, 2012
Hmm. Perhaps GM have given hints to the receivers only to allow licensing 9-4x and 9-5 to a former Saab owner……………..?
And a Swedish part enters …….
The story ending with the same owner of Saab Automobile as of the Museum……?
KoGa said on January 30, 2012
I would like that…
OliverH said on January 30, 2012
Wallenbergs been there. I think they don’t do it again. They’re investors to get a good margin in time.
A buyer of Saab needs money and automotive partnerships/ knowledge.
hilmar said on January 30, 2012
It makes sense – Volvo and Saab. It would add up for Sweden as a nation and for both car makers. They already used the dealership together in Germany, they attract nearly the same kind of customers. IMHO the sporty Saab looks a bit better than Volvo trying to be sporty.
So – try it together and for us customers. A Saab fan perhaps wouldn´t buy a Volvo but perhaps a Saab “build together with Volvo”. There are already joint ventures within the Swedish industry working on fossil-fuel free power. Why not extend it and create a strong automotive sector ?
xelav said on January 30, 2012
Wasn’t there a saabengineer who recently switched to Volvo ? Hope it was all planned, they are also using the same swedish suplyers. It could make sense. Volvo à swedish bidder, with Chinese geely money.:)
CSD_ChineseSaabDriver said on January 30, 2012
So Volvo takes over Saab and Geely takes over Youngman?
That being wanted by Chinese government?
Ennnnn
CSD_ChineseSaabDriver said on January 30, 2012
Both Geely and Youngman are from the same Zhejiang province.
Well if they two can merge into a bigger car maker, would be nice too, the only thing is will YM’s boss want that to happen? IMO difficult, unless Geely pas YM 1+ billion USD cash.
CSD_ChineseSaabDriver said on January 30, 2012
Well YM can stay independent although operating under cooperation with Geely after the merge, Geely takes car of Volvo, Youngman takes car of Saab, waoh, would be great to see this happen.
ivo 71 said on January 31, 2012
Youngman’s Lotus etc. passenger car division is a stand-alone unit within the YM group. So a merger could be set up quite easily while the Pangs would still own their original bus-building enterprise. Moreover, this may go a long way in solving the no-more-GM-engine problem for Saab.
Ivo
tianalfred said on January 31, 2012
With the sale of Malaysia’s Proton to DRB-Hicom, YM’s cooperation with Proton on “Lotus” could be impacted. Pang Qingnian said to media yesterday after he returned to China from Sweden that he has currently two opitions, one is to take over saab as a whole and then come out of 9-3 pretty soon, the other is to let others take over saab as a whole and YM will produce its own cars based on the pheonix platform YM acquired and “can aslo develop a brandnew car within a couple of years.”
“In short, even withouth GM’s technology, what we are buying is not an empty shell, because the management and engineers are there(?!)”
OliverH said on January 30, 2012
Does Geely have the money? I thought they’ve raised funds to buy Volvo. A couple of month ago they had to refinance a loan.
CSD_ChineseSaabDriver said on January 30, 2012
Money is not an issue if the government wants so to happen.
All the banks belong to government, they have now some 3200 billions USD forex.
The China Investment Fund has some 300 billion USD used for investment in foreign countries, if government wants Geely and Youngman to take over Saab together, they can always borrow money to them. This happens quite often by other Chinese car makers, like BAIC, it easily gets billions USD from Beijing local government for car development.
Turbo9000 said on January 30, 2012
Hopefuly this won’t take too long anymore; time is not on our side…
TurboLamko said on January 30, 2012
+1
Angelo V. said on January 31, 2012
+ another 1 Time is an enemy.
David-SAAB said on January 31, 2012
This week will be a very eventful one indeed.
I am looking forward to driving to my local SAAB dealer and reading the banner hanging in the window – ” SAAB RE-BJORN AND BIGGER THAN EVER”
guy davidson said on January 31, 2012
love the re-bjorn….you got skills
Allan B said on January 31, 2012
If Youngman are as serious as they look and their intentions are good and can provide plenty of Pang for their buck, then great: I’ll have some of that. No question.
My preference, though, is for a Swedish party as I have stated already, and if an as-yet secret deal turns out to be a twosome with Volvo, as opposed to parties we already know are interested such as Bård Eker/Koenigsegg or the Wallenbergs, then that would certainly float my boat.
After all, the Germans and French have shown that if you do it properly then such a national approach can keep you in business and still allow you to include highly distinctive cars in your line-up, such as the (Mk1 especially) Audi TT from VAG or the Citroen C6 from PSA-Peugeot-Citroen. Anyway, it wouldn’t be the first time a Saab-Volvo merger has been on the cards, would it. Maybe it’s time. On the other hand, given Volvo is already in foreign ownership my honest hope would be that Saab is reborn (sorry, rebjörn
) in Swedish hands and then, in 10-15 years after growing triumphantly from a humble restart, buys Volvo and brings it all back home. “I have a dream… etc”
And hey, whatever happens, at least all this when the winner is chosen will hopefully silence the clowns who have been writing ‘obituaries’ for Saab.
Keep the faith. Saab up.