Decision about SAAB might come this month!
February 13, 2012 in News
According to P4 West a decision about Saab could come from the Administrators could come before the end of the month. Their hopes are to finish the process by the end of the month. So far it’s unclear who is in the lead.
Brightwell are in a good position and are aided by Victor Muller, Youngman has placed a bid of 3 billion SEK but another 5 billion SEK is said to be required to get Saab up and running. Youngmans intentions are of course also unclear since they time and time again have broken their promises and also have had a great chance to buy Saab for many months and failed. Rachel Pang has confirmed to SaabsUnited that they have intentions of keeping Saab in Sweden and starting up production in Trollhättan. If she and youngman will stick to what they say remains to see. Volvo has been taken well care of by Geely.
Mahindra has written an agreement of secrecy with the administrators which shows the they are clearly in the game and they are according to sources inside the company, preparing to make a bid.
NOTE: Article corrected!
saabtec said on February 13, 2012
Time once again for some F5 abuse.
SaabKen said on February 13, 2012
My F5 key is worn out …….
Henrik said on February 13, 2012
I don´t think it´s fair to blame Youngman for the broken promises, they needed to get value for their money, and in the end their cautiosness was proved justified.
I keep my thumbs for Rachel.
TimR said on February 13, 2012
I can tell you that we’ve heard a lot of things about Youngman which personally makes me wish that anyone else would buy Saab than them! But again, this is just what I’ve heard…
P said on February 13, 2012
I’d rather see Saab go under and hold my warranty in my hand for firewood then see it go to YM…
Angelo V. said on February 13, 2012
That’s unfortunate P. I don’t think they’re the strongest bidder. I like Mahindra the best. I’d LEAST like to see Brightwell Holdings gain control. But if Brightwell is the winner, I will support them strongly and pull for them to restore Saab to greatness, on their terms. It’s hard to fathom that any Saab owner or enthusiast would rather see the brand dead than Youngman (or anyone else) win a bid. That creeps me out. Is it something against Asians?
terry9000k said on February 13, 2012
Angelo V
It’s called being diplomatic…………
P said on February 13, 2012
Personally, no. It’s this garbage I hate: http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/verdict-expected-in-chicago-corporate-espionage-trial-of-chinese-born-american/2012/02/08/gIQAjZcNzQ_story.html
Angelo V. said on February 13, 2012
P: How do you suppose General Motors has built factories in China, hired Chinese labor (up to and including executive level management) and is doing business there—-fully immersed—-and with no risk of compromising their technology? My point is that Youngman is a bit player. The big guns are already there, fully exposed to the things you’re concerned about. If your position is a complete boycott of Chinese products, Chinese companies and companines doing business in China, I could respect that—-but good luck buying some of the most basic things in your life. If you are picking and choosing the situations of concern—–what is it about Youngman that is so despicable?
davidgmills said on February 14, 2012
You have to start somewhere. It is one thing to have to buy small ticket items from China, quite another to have to buy a car from China.
Katsura said on February 14, 2012
Industry Espionage happens in every country and every line of industry, and you have to bloody single out the Chinese? ANY company worth their weight will try to get trade secrets from their competitors.
But we all know the high and mights white race can;t do nothing wrong.
Angelo V. said on February 14, 2012
Katsura: I have a different take on it. I think much of the anti-Chinese sentiment is basically a bit of envy—-China is running the table, at least right now, on a lot of things economic around the world. I’m an American—-and I do think in time, with the right people elected to lead the U.S., America can once again establish itself as having a remarkable economy, fast growing and healthy. For now though, China is manufacturing and producing in enormous numbers, raking in money. But I think there is another aspect to this—-which is that people feel that yes, there are corporate cheaters everywhere. But I think some feel that in China, the cheaters are getting help from the Chinese government and in other places, the cheaters are wreaking havoc DESPITE the rule of law and attempted enforcement by governments. For my part—-I’m a consumer. I buy goods that serve my purposes. I like finding items that work well for me and save me money. If those products are made in the U.S.A., I’m very happy to support my own economy and American workers. If the products are made in Canada, or Mexico, Hong Kong, Korea or China, Japan, Denmark, Italy, Germany, France—-or anywhere in between, a good product for a good deal ends up being the one I spend my hard earned money for. I could easily picture myself buying a Made In China or Made In India Saab.
Katsura said on February 15, 2012
Thank you for sharing your thoughts. A certain people do feel envy or even jealousy – after all, the west had been the master for centuries and to have a new comer (communist one at that) or a former colony to lead the world economy is probably hard for them to swallow, so out comes all forms of negative press.
Incidentally this is the same as Chinese athletes being accused of using drugs to gain medals – they just can;t believe an Asian (they all know they are weak physically) can beat them at their own game – their own doping history all forgotten…
In any case, I am not making excuses for the bad practices by ANYONE. However, each case should be judged individually – to accuse YM of ‘like the rest of those stealing Chinese’ reeks racism (when there is no evidence).
P.S> The US still has a strong economy in fields such as software, IT, aerospace etc. And to accuse the Chinese when it was US (and EU) companies that MOVED their manufacturing base east is such an empty anger directed at the wrong side. The western companies could have kept their base in their countries of origin, but then that would account to protectionism and won;t sit with the WTO right?
You can’t play the game – write a set of rules, then when someone else beats you using those rules, decide to call it unfair.
maanders said on February 13, 2012
Yeah, and there was also Swade’s rather blunt statement that Youngman was not tops on his list of potential buyers. I understand why he cannot say what informs his opinion, but while still with Saab, he could hear things that none of us could.
Angelo V. said on February 13, 2012
Frankly, as much as I love reading Swade’s entries (here and elsewhere) I’ll reject any “opnion” that isn’t supported with at least a few reasons why. If he’s no longer working for them, why do you understand why he can’t give any reasons why he’s opposed to someone or in favor of someone? In my mind, if the best you can do is say something deragotory and leave it dangling—-better to say nothing.
maanders said on February 13, 2012
When you work at any large tech company, you are usually under confidentiality agreements about not sharing confidential company information. Those agreements still hold after you leave the company. He could have said nothing at all, but that fact that he said what he did (especially with his track record of concern for the Saab brand and objective reporting before joining Saab), is why I said I put some stock in his opinion.
terry9000k said on February 13, 2012
Angelo V
See above comment.
Angelo V. said on February 13, 2012
Terry: Disclosure agreements/disclosure laws at tech (and other companies) generally don’t prohibit someone speaking out in generalities. Didn’t Swade write a blog on Saab’s website? As such, I wouldn’t think he was privy to merger or aquisition information at the highest levels. If he was—-my assumption is that someone else there violated their own agreement. Powder keg information like that is often restricted to board members and executive committees, not someone who writes a blog. In any case, I still think having a strong opinion about a prospective buyer (particularly a strong negative opinion) only matters to me if I can get at least some insight into why. I do understand that others disagree with this—-and would put their trust in an opinion without even basic details being shared—-but I’m not in that camp. By the way, Swade is a wordsmith—–I think he could find a way to get his point across without compromising confidentiality agreements!
terry9000k said on February 13, 2012
Sadly, it is not for us to determine what Swade is saying beyond what he wrote.
He has his opinion & like everyone else is entitled to it. Probably more than anyone YM is in the firing line because of the failures that lead to Saab’s bankruptcy.
I want to see the best owner to take the heritage of Saab forward & not any company that want’s to strip it of it’s core values & beliefs.
I am certain that Swade will at the right point of time tell all, but that is another time.
BMW Rider said on February 13, 2012
Swade’s NDA is enforceable but my new car warranty from the same company is now worthless with the bankruptcy. That just doesn’t seem right.
Angelo V. said on February 13, 2012
Ain’t that the truth! Funny thing is—-VM (at least publickly) seemed pleased in December, when Youngman’s offer came through and a sale was imminent. Then, Victor seemed surprised/dismayed by GM’s position—-and I think to a person, people I know who were following this, even loosely following it—-were saying “What is he surprised about?” The implication is that people thousands of miles away, without ties to the auto industry, found it ludicrous to believe that GM wasn’t going to obstruct this sale. Didn’t he know that? And how is it Youngman’s fault? They didn’t buy Saab two years ago and agree to those terms.
terry9000k said on February 14, 2012
What’s your warranty to do with Swade??.
NDA is also not to do with warranty. And please why act surprises now, Saab were on the brink all of last year,Warranty can be re-bought independently.
AND Angelo V:
You are a very regular writer on SU and do know the story of what the Saab/spker/GM said [according to posts on SU]. That said that no more than 20% of Saab could be sold to China, NOT No% to anyone.
My take is that YM knew fullwell what they were doing, when they demanded 100% of Saab [Pre bankruptcy].
Kimberly said on February 14, 2012
@ terry9000k
> What’s your warranty to do with Swade??.
The hypocrisy when it comes to the law. The warranty is utterly worthless now and nothing can be done to force SAAB to fix a broken car which they have a legal option to do, and yet Swade could be facing charges and sued if he decided to break his NDA and tell us all about what would have become the new 9-3.
It is maddening, and it is surprising that the link BMW Rider made went over your head.
BMW Rider said on February 14, 2012
What does my warranty have to do with Swade? well maybe not a lot except an agreement was made between Saab and someone in both cases. My warranty is worthless, that is the party I made the agreement with is not honoring it and has no plans to honor it. So why is Swade, or anyone else from what was Saab, legally bound by an NDA to a bankrupt company? – who would enforce it? Who would spend the time and money to enforce it? Anyway it just seems like a strange contradiction.
Of course maybe you didn’t spend retail price for a new Saab 9-5 which is sitting at a dealer now for 2 weeks for a repair that I will have to pay for, walk a mile in my shoes Mr. 9000 and then talk to me.
Independent warranty, yeah, on top of $50K+ out the door price for the car. Like I said, walk a mile in my shoes. GM didn’t abandoned me on my 2 2008 Saabs which GM will still fix under warranty but Saab 2.0 did on my 2011. I don’t have an NDA with Saab and if I did i tell them to stuff it.
Henrik said on February 13, 2012
ok, I trust you have far more info than me so in that case I´ll take your word for it. And I was wondering why Vic went to the Brightwell team..
ivo 71 said on February 13, 2012
Well, according to my own sources which I, of course, won’t reveal either, many at Saab were, and probably still are, of the opinion that Youngman are cowboys and definitely not the dreamed new owners of Saab. Pang Da, on the other hand, were respected as people who can be relied upon in business. Maybe the reason that Youngman and Pang Da parted ways at a certain point in time had something to do with that. And also with why VM chose to work with Brightwell after the bankruptcy. The reason that he worked with Youngman before was most probably that there was no other party interested in buying and saving Saab at the time so that he had no alternative.
I’m sorry I can’t be more specific but the source doesn’t want to risk identification by having more detailed information published here.
Ivo
Carlo A said on February 13, 2012
just bacause she is a pretty girl
Henrik said on February 13, 2012
SaabKen said on February 13, 2012
Her here ?
http://www.nyteknik.se/nyheter/fordon_motor/bilar/article3374398.ece
Saabo said on February 13, 2012
Ohh, here goes the F5 race once again!
TimR said on February 13, 2012
Article corrected after new info!
Saabo said on February 13, 2012
Ok, my pulse are back to normal mode again! Thank´s Tim for keeping us alert…
xlx said on February 13, 2012
“Rachel Pang has confirmed to SaabsUnited that they have intentions of keeping Saab in Sweden and starting up production in Trollhättan.”
…. please did she specified what exactly they would like to produce ? 9-3 II, PhoeniX based Saabs, something else … ?
TimR said on February 13, 2012
nope nothing like that, just a confirmation on a question placed via e-mail.
Eric said on February 13, 2012
I don’t really care who buys Saab as long as:
1. they treat 2010 and 2011 owners the correct way after we’ve been on a rollercoaster of highs and lows
2. they produce cars people actually want to buy
3. they make Saab healthy enough for me to continue buying the brand
TimR said on February 13, 2012
honestly, I don’t care about point 1, and I’m one of them…
P said on February 13, 2012
If point 1 isn’t in the cards, then I’m done with this car and brand, and yes I’ve had Saabs my entire driving life. Nothing else…
Eric said on February 13, 2012
I don’t know how anyone could not care about my first point. If the new owners aren’t going to make good on what the Spyker owners lost, how can we expect them to have the best interest of the brand in the future going forward?
Everyone should be squared up and they should try to knock our socks off as soon as possible with production-quality photos of the new 93/900/Phoenix. I would be willing to trade in my 2011 93 towards the purchase of a 2014/5 93 replacement if they treat us right.
E said on February 13, 2012
+1. When I agreed to pay the sales price on my 2010 and 2011 SAABs, that sales contract covered the car, the warranty, and the included service at 10K, 20K and 30K. Right now, I have only the amazing car for my cash. The other two “items” covered by that sales contract have been stolen away from me. I’m really not sure what the value of my currently missing items is … maybe $2K-$3K … but because of this loss, I agree with Eric … we 2010 and/or 2011 owners should be treated the “correct” way when all this is sorted out. Heck, I’d be willing to do may part and take that missing value of $2K-3K as an additional rebate against the purchase of a new SAAB when production starts up again. But not caring about this breach of contract for ’10/’11 owners is something I disagree with.
TonymacUK said on February 13, 2012
With my purchase in 2011, I`m of the same opinion. I believe here in the UK the 3 yr free servicing agreement is being honoured along with 3yr breakdown cover wiyh the AA. However, the 3yr Warranty is null and void.(OT, but can anybody tell me what the bar code sticker on my engine means -M746 SAAB 180CV)
74StingSaab said on February 13, 2012
Point 1 is of major importance for several reasons, one being not everyone has extra money to toss at a “NEW” car. My son is a PRIME EXAMPLE of a new car owner, so proud to have bought a Saab yet only to have been screwed by this mess. What would it say to potential new car buyer that when times got tough, Saab dropped warranties with not a care or back-up plan to help those who believed in Saab.
To dismiss #1 is kind of , well, arrogant. I know it’s your personal take and I sincerely hope Saab does not take your advice
Snowshoe said on February 13, 2012
I guess that honouring the old warranties for NG 9-5 is a small cost compared to everything else.
Also it would be of great PR-value and give a good foundation upon which the trust of the brand could be re-built.
The trick of getting the buyers back is to be perceived as a stable and long term owner that will ensure the survival of the brand. And the perceiption that the brand will survive is the most important thing for being able so sell cars again.
Sergio said on February 13, 2012
Dear Saabsunited,
From 2009 I have had 2 new keyboards, I think its news like this which keeps getting the F5 button stuck! I would appreciate it you would stock saabsunited keyboards so that I can purchase one when this one goes!
All the best,
SP
On a serious note, M&M are the ones for me, silent, stealth action ready to blow everyone else out the water with their super bid… or anyone that saves SAAB! My 95 is not a car but a tank, just had it serviced, feels like new, smells like new, drives like new all after 100k miles on the clock, nothing broken, have not had to replace a single bulb since I bought it, no problems, just very well made, safe, reliable and damn a damn sexy wagon. < unbelievable. who else can build cars like this?
TimR said on February 13, 2012
You need to buy a re-enforced special SU key to replace your F5 =)
Rune said on February 13, 2012
We should submit a dozen or so keyboards to the moose test and see which ones survive.
SaabKen said on February 13, 2012
You need a SS keyboard ………
http://www.industrietastaturen.woehrgmbh.de/assets/images/SURTA7V_TB1_PS2_D.jpg
ryanonsrc said on February 13, 2012
Whoa, that’s one of the most awesome-looking keyboards I’ve seen.
Red J said on February 13, 2012
I’m sure you can’t buy a SS Keyboard in Germany.
Romac said on February 13, 2012
Mebbe all we really need is this WordPress autorefresh plugin
Angelo V. said on February 13, 2012
Agree on Mahindra.
Sergio said on February 13, 2012
Ladies and gentlemen the all new M&M SAAB 91x http://carscoop.blogspot.com/2012/02/new-ssangyong-xiv-2-convertible-concept.html
my thought to what will happen
not bad for a short term filler. 100% agree on the moose test keyboard!
terry9000k said on February 13, 2012
This has got Saab design studio stamped all over it….
Ralph said on February 13, 2012
Remember folks, this year’s February has 29 days.
cakewalker said on February 13, 2012
..although it may feel like 290
jouni72 said on February 13, 2012
Saab savior UP!
xelav said on February 13, 2012
Ralph, how rude!
Ralph said on February 13, 2012
Heheh, just trying to be nice by preparing you all in advance for the extra day of suffering.
ryanonsrc said on February 13, 2012
And in typical Saab fashion I am sure February 29th will be *the* day
Bravada from GMI said on February 13, 2012
Then there will be a special Saab Saved celebration on the 29th every four years.
Or a Saab wake…
Romac said on February 13, 2012
The day when the Lady proposes to the Man?
maanders said on February 13, 2012
So, I guess it comes down to which bidder wants to give Saab the biggest, most expensive Valentine.
Angelo V. said on February 13, 2012
You mean wants to give CREDITORS the biggest, most expensive Valentine!
maanders said on February 13, 2012
At this point I view the creditors as the parents wanting to find the best suitor for Saab.
Angelo V. said on February 13, 2012
I wish that were true. I think the creditors just want as much money back as they can get. Hopefully the receivers can balance that with a good situation for Saab.
karl said on February 13, 2012
GRIFFIN UP !!!! I can wait à few days more, but please save SAAB !!!!!!!!!!
Oskar Malmgren said on February 13, 2012
Let us hope for the best for Saab! Tomorrow I’ll take out my Saab 9-5 -99 for a LONG nice ride!
Angelo V. said on February 13, 2012
I hope it comes this month. I think “might come this month” should probably really be “Must come this month” because I fear that beyond Februray (by more than a few days at least) we’re done with this—-it will become a matter of selling off pieces and winding down. Every day that goes by, restarting Saab becomes just a little less viable and a whole lot more difficult and expensive. If this can’t be settled by the end of February/early March—-a sale announced—-a very basic business plan discussed—-I don’t see another Saab branded car rolling off an assembly line.
Oskar Malmgren said on February 13, 2012
Mahindra would surley be an ideal owner of Saab economically. But we still have little information about their intentions with a purchase. Are they intrested of whole Saab and the trademark or just the technology? I hope for the first…
fanofsaab said on February 13, 2012
To me, there’s not much we can control except the things can do individually to help our cause. One such action is to continue putting heat on GM and what better way than to consistently flood facebook….get organized and crank it up
DanSaab said on February 13, 2012
Do NOT post anything about Saab on Facebook for now! I wouldn’t
fanofsaab said on February 13, 2012
Why not on GM’s page, Dan? How can doing so harm us?
DanSaab said on February 13, 2012
Not on GMs page, we need to keep calm, this won’t help Saab if we continue doing that!
Angelo V. said on February 13, 2012
It won’t hurt or help Saab. GM isn’t going to decide what asshat action to take (or not take) based on what some fans are writing on Facebook. I post there because it makes me feel better.
saabdog said on February 13, 2012
This is my prediction:
- M&M get Saab
- GM IP doesn’t come with it
- M&M bring some of their products to US quickly to fill the gap for dealers
- M&M develop new Saab products to launch in 18 months
I’m sure more can and will happen, but I think this scenario is plausible.
Angelo V. said on February 13, 2012
Wow, that isn’t my prediction, but it is my fantasy for Saab. I hope you are right. You hit on everything I’m hoping for. In my opinion, from the limited research I could do—Mahnindra would give Saab the best chance at a long term future success. I think they could weather the storm of losses for a few years—-building for a big resurgence starting around 2015. Their products (especially compact diesel trucks) would have a market of their own in the U.S. Rebadging some of the better Ssangyong products as entry level Saabs would be great. If they could build some version of the 9-3 without GM licensing, all the better.
saabdog said on February 13, 2012
I think getting the current version of the 9-3 would probably be the best they could get out of GM as far as continuing production of a current model, but I wouldn’t bet on it. Also, M&M could offer up some products from Mahindra or Ssangyong, not as Saabs, but as their own lines — in essence, stand alone Saab dealerships would become Saab/Mahindra/Ssangyong dealers. If the cars they offer up can pass the US crash & emissions standards, I think this could help the existing dealers get by until Saab comes out with the new 9-3.
Angelo V. said on February 13, 2012
The EPA already approved two Mahindra trucks, I think in 2010 or 2011. They would probably have to be re-certified, but it shouldn’t be that difficult. They were going to sell them—-but the distribution deal collapsed. If they can buy Saab—-they’ll have some Saab dealers (the surviving ones) as a good starting point for distribution.
saabdog said on February 13, 2012
A good opportunity (and shortcut) for Mahindra to finally get into the US market. This is one of the reasons why I think they are the ones to buy Saab. Instant access, and they will follow up with a killer new Saab 9-3.
David-SAAB said on February 13, 2012
Sounds like a plausible plan to me.
Saab up!
zippy said on February 13, 2012
Youngman dont know when to give up, do they? Forget it. It will never happen Youngman.
ryanonsrc said on February 13, 2012
If Youngman is able to surprise us by actually delivering on their latest promises then: the door is certainly open for that.
But with other competing investors in the running, the proverbial ship on their plans is about to sail. At this point, I’m not going to discount anyone and just say: let the best bidder win! (And by “best” I don’t just mean by dollar amount).
Katsura said on February 14, 2012
So when VM never gives up it’s called tenacity and a lovely virtue, but when YM shows the same qualities, it’s those evil Chinese try to getting their way?
Your racist undertone has been showing in your posts for months.
RS said on February 14, 2012
Whoa Kantsura, wait a second.
I have not seen any racist comments on SU ever. You should never mix personal opinions about someone’s conduct with ethnicity.
If I say member of the Swedish Government have been d-bags when it comes to Saab, is that a racist comment? Or when I say Victor and JÅJ screwed up the rebirth of the new (un)independent company or YM motives from the start has been ‘a bit unclear’, this has nothing to do with racism.
Heck even my family member pi** me off lot of times. Again, nothing to do with race or nationality.
While we’re at it, I have unanswered questions about the Turks, Indians and American as well… not to mention the Danes, Norwegians, Finns and Russians. Forgot the Canucks, boy these guys really get under my skin.
Katsura said on February 14, 2012
The racist remark is directed at Zippy, who, if you have been reading SU as long as I have, been on many occasions, remarked his dislike for Chinese. Some bordering on madness (quite a few times he mentioned he will never get a Saab if it’s got any Chinese connections), basically he is one of those who’d rather see Saab die than let it go under yellow skin.
As an ethnic Chinese I have taken deep offence by his comment before but I’m not usually one that cries Racist at the first twitch.
Swade may have inside information but this zippy person sure doesn’t. And after this comment today I’ve had bloody enough.
Katsura said on February 14, 2012
And no, I don’t just cheer for YM because they are a Chinese company – my personal top pick of the known bidders is actually Mahindra.
However I am fed up with this “they are Chinese so they must be into stealing IP, doing dodgy shit.” HELLO, compared to Enron, GM, etc, what can you really accuse the Chinese? Also have you read what some of the American corporations did – over throwing government to put their puppets in place? How about the ‘honourable’ Japanese that totally were corrupt to the core as per Olympus? How about the Mitsubishi Motors scandle in the early 90′s? No one is pure in business world, it’s just the western companies had decades to learn to cover up their tracks.
This is the same effing stupid crap western media used to feed about ‘the other races’. And yes I DO think some of the posters here have have racist inclinations.
RS said on February 14, 2012
But the fact is Chinese companies have been known for taking advantage of existing tech, just like you can find anything bad to say about any nationality. Look many seem to hate Saab. Again, no racism to me.
The lowball bids YM made to take over SWAN was a red flag in my book about the company (at the time), just like VM imo relying too much on money coming from VA. But this has nothing to with the ethnicity of the people running the show.
PangDa was at the time praised on SU for their involvement.
Katsura said on February 14, 2012
That is YOUR Opinion. As a Chinese I AM offended. So there.
low ball? What company won’t try to get as good a deal as possible?
Katsura said on February 14, 2012
What bad thing as been said about other NATIONALITY. It’s always INDIVIDUAL’s fault if they were Russians, Dutch, Swedish etc, but when it comes to YM, it’s the ‘CHINESE’ fault. Double standard much?
RS said on February 14, 2012
And American companies have been accused of being ULTRA greedy, by the Americans on here. It was you who said ‘the evil Chinese’, not Zippy.
Many consider Swedes lazy dumb blonds that sound like the Chef from Muppets…
I think you need to relax, have a beer and watch some Dave Chappelle.
Piet-Hein Schlimme said on February 13, 2012
we’ll see…i’ve given up hope.
but if Saab is sold & saved, it calls for some kind of celebration in THN (and the rest of the world, of course)
Bravada from GMI said on February 13, 2012
It does feel a bit like in an Agatha Christie movie, when Miss Marple and Hercule Poirot are about to gather everybody in the room and tell us what has really been going on, who is who. The cards will be on the table, the masks cast aside…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmsV5caLzqM
Allan B said on February 13, 2012
Best comment of the day.
OurMoldySaab said on February 13, 2012
I don’t know if it’s too late, but is there anything American citizens can do with local politicians to pressure GM to accept license agreements? GM’s attitude towards cutting off Saab’s lifeline affects thousands of Americans who bought 2010 and 2011 models that have no warranties. Last time I checked, the US gov’t owned a big chunk of GM. GM must protect its shareholders (US citizens and Saab owners) by allowing a deal or covering 2010 and 2011 warranties.
P said on February 13, 2012
This is what came out of Connecticut but I’m sure nothing will come of it.
http://library.constantcontact.com/download/get/file/1103736720178-46/Saab+letter+to+GM+signed%5b1%5d.pdf
saabdog said on February 13, 2012
Moldy, the fact that the US gov’t owns a big chunk of GM is why they aren’t willing to license Saab IP/parts, even if they can make money in the short run. I think they are playing the long game…they know Saab’s potential if sold to the right investor and fear the competition. And allowing GM IP/parts would give that investor a head start.
Specht said on February 13, 2012
Mahindra would be a nice investor : huge funds, wide commercial net, smartness.
kochje said on February 13, 2012
That just the best might win the deal; we need Saab to survive as a unique and sustainable brand that produces extraordinary cars.
That is what we all want; isn’t it?
JH said on February 13, 2012
I will wait and see and hope for the best!
Ben said on February 13, 2012
Does anyone have any insight as to what GM’s licensing agreements call for? What is the royalty they get per car? Lets assume its $2000/car – if Saab could get to 100,000 cars a year (which is a kind estimate), that would amount to $200M/year. A lot of money, yes, however when you consider that the US government gave them something closer to a $50 BILLION bailout, its a drop in the bucket. GM can be criticized for a lot of things, but if they believe that renewing the licensing agreements with a foriegn company would compromise their IP – specifically as it relates to the LaCrosse in China – it is 100% their right not to renew. In fact, one could argue that not renewing licenses is indeed looking out for the shareholders (American tax payers) best interests, to whom they are greatly indebted.
I am long time Saab supporter and hope they succeed, but I don’t understand this notion that GM somehow has an obligation to renew the licesnse agreements.
OliverH said on February 13, 2012
In germany the people say “Butter bei die Fische”, the English speaking people would say: “show me the wallet”. We’re stepping inside the 2nd round after serious bidders and tire kickers showed up on place and will be protected by NDAs to not lose their face. We had some disturbance from two, where one of themselves called to be a bidder.
It’s all about speculation, bad stories and hopefully a happy end.
Romac said on February 13, 2012
¿show me the money?
Joseph said on February 13, 2012
I’m hoping for Mahindra or Youngman. Brightwell seems like a joke to me. Remember that Northstreet Capital or whatever they were called? I called them out and was flamed for it. I’ve had about as much as I can handle of Victor Muller, I’m siding with those who aren’t associated with him.
Angelo V. said on February 13, 2012
Joseph: I hate to say it, but I think I’m with you on this one. It’s painful to side against Mr. Muller—-because I think without his efforts 2 years ago, Saab might have died a fast death at that point. But now, I question his motives for being a cheerleader for Brightwell—-as it seems plain as day that there are better choices—-other parties that actually build cars seem interested.
maanders said on February 13, 2012
The fact is we do not know enough about any of the bidders (or their real plans) to know for sure who would turn out to be the best new owner for Saab. Getting what information we can and speculating is about the only thing we can do now…that and hope for the best.
terry9000k said on February 14, 2012
Correct comments………….
Katsura said on February 14, 2012
You are not the only one agreeing to Joseph. BW talks the talk. I trust them as much as I do YM (not that much but hoping the motives are sincere)
David-SAAB said on February 13, 2012
I feel the simple is fact is this:
In order for Saab to restart without enormous losses is to continue (for the first 2 years) with GM IP. Without it, the costs will be astronomical. It’s a big gamble for the prospective buyer to invest hundreds of millions of dollars into a company without any return for this amount of time. Therefore to have IP from GM allows them to continue with at least some of the current line up until the new platform can be used and marketed. This why I feel VM is assisting with Brightwell. I believe he understands this may be the only possible way for a Saab restart.
If ever GM are going to license IP to anyone, it’s going to be win Brightwell. They are the only player whom does pose a threat to their market share. They are the only non car manufacturer in the game here. If GM were to work with Brightwell, I am betting it would have a time frame applied to the agreement.
saabdog said on February 13, 2012
I would feel better about Brightwell and VM’s deal (as much as I like VM) if he had a better track record when it comes to hooking up potential investors and securing GM IP. I mean, how long did GM string YM and VM along before shooting the deal down? And it sure seemed like Victor was a bit blindsided by the decision. Sadly, I just don’t see the GM IP thing happening. So any investor had better have a plan to develop Saabs without it as their long term strategy.
Chris Hansel said on February 13, 2012
The end of the month? Did anyone pick upon that? We were told at first by the end of April. That is two months down the road, is that mean good, or ill?
Cokeisit said on February 13, 2012
I still hope for BMW as owner with the right to build all recent Saabs. Youngman could get to license the Phoenix platform from Saab and we could all be happy together.
Paddan said on February 13, 2012
Way off topic, but how many folks posted to GM’s FB page and now have Cadillac postings to their own FB pages?
Olav said on February 14, 2012
Well, I don’t think a new owner of SAAB will just jumpstart what’s left of SAAB and just carry on as nothing happened. Let’s face it: our beloved brand hasn’t been profitable for many years, and hoping that a new owner with their pockets full of money could change that without doing any chnages at all might be close to believe in Santa Claus. Let’s not also forget how the market sees SAAB now; bankruptcy after bankruptcy (I know, there has only been t w o bankrupties). Let there be no doubt: I love SAAB, and these days I am buying another one (9-3SS) to go aside with our highly beloved 9-5, but I really think we have to be prepared for a really new direction for SAAB with a new owner. I really, really hate seeing what’s going on with SAAB at the moment and I admit that I’m hoping for a miracle for SAAB – and nothing more. The talented people at SAAB are leaving now, and I have noticed that engineers from SAAB have several job oportunities these days (according to Press). As times go by they’re all gone, and a SAAB without all the talented and skilled people onboard is just a factory – a real estate, period.
Now I have two relatively new SAABs in my driveway, maybe I’ll also try to catch a vintage SAAB as well. If warranties were my big issue I would have chosen another brand. But I can’t do that because I still want a SAAB!
Have a nice week,all. Let’s our dreams come through!
Sockmonkey said on February 14, 2012
The M&M rumor from this weekend has yet to be confirmed or denied by anybody who is in a position to know. I’d say DI is being DI at this point, and point to their track record of being a fountain of disinformation.
Of the 3 parties we know of, M&M would appear to be in the best position to take care of Saab’s needs. Beyond having an existing network of dealers worldwide (and existing car brands in the pipeline to keep existing Saab dealers afloat in case our beloved brand needs to go dark for a season or so), I don’t know exactly what GM IP is at stake, but if it’s electronics, parts or platforms, existing M&M or Ssangyong vendors or pieces could theoretically be adapted to work without much of a hassle. Gag order or not, perhaps somebody at SU could try to contact the M&M PR department to get a statement or clarification?
If they are as good as their PR says they are, I increasingly find Brightwell intriguing. I think having VM as an advisor is actually a good thing– more than anybody, VM knows what worked, what did not, and what he would do differently– this is valuable and hard-won information. The more I dig, the more I see a possible link (if only a minority share) between Brightwell and contract auto (and aerospace) manufacturer/designer Heuliez– who are similar to Valmet in this regard. This also means a possible source for vendors, parts and manufacturing, and a (possible) work-around for GM IP if they can not secure the licenses. Brightwell have been very vocal about their Saab bid, so maybe SU can get a hold of spokesman Zamier Ahmed to ask about the bid and about the existing auto platform (by Heuliez?) they claim to have developed in earlier statements.
I will support Youngman only If it is the difference between saving Saab and its demise. GM will do whatever they can to kill their bid, and I simply do not trust YM’s motives (which seem to have more to do with saving their own existence than it does in helping Saab). There is a reason we are not being told as to why VM is no longer affiliated with this company, and why Swade was so adamantly against them.
This is just crazy talk, but do the molds, jigs and presses for the Original 900 still exist?? Whoever the new owner is, why not make some low cost fun retro cars (with modern safety and performance) to bring back some excitement and a source of revenue while the Phoenix/ new 9-3 tools up? Even Volvo continued to crank out the 240 for years after its replacement hit the streets because it was cheap, safe and popular.
mnztr said on February 14, 2012
Remember Youngman was the one that tried to change the original deal. And when they did it blew up in their face. VM was trying to save it. But they had already shown GM their dishonest nature…so perhaps they deserved to get screwed out of 100M or so… as that is exactly what they tried to do to VM.. karma is a powerful force. indeed. I don’t know what levers VM has or any of the other players. But perhaps since Mahindra is already in the business, has access and capabilities in markets GM may see value in, Perhaps they can strike a deal with GM that is mutually beneficial. Perhaps the deal is no SAAB products enter the Chinese market until they are free of GM IP…..
Angelo V. said on February 14, 2012
Yep, GM sure doesn’t like companies with a dishonest nature. Oy vay.
terry9000k said on February 14, 2012
Many, many Western companies simply could not survive without Chinese parts in their products [assuming the whole item is not Chinese made], Apple, HP, EU Car makers, etc, etc, to name a few].
Badge engineering is widespread throughout many items on sale from your humble toaster, to your Solid wood [Mexican 'style'] furniture.
This is shareholder corporate value, most of which would not be able to exist without their input].
Gm’s IP wars are something that will happen anyway, as the Chinese take more & more of World trade.
Chinese cars [as Clarkson said on Top Gear] have come along way in 5 years, so what will they have in 5 years from now, probably they will own GM.
Chinese export cars are on their way & there is now little anyone can do to stop it, just delay it a bit [hence GM actions].
GM is more frightened of Saab being owned by a Company that has the money, will & determination to succeed, as much of their own IP [GM’s} came from part, when they owned Saab the units.
GM, will side & honour their agreements with SAIC, who are now being chased by BAICs, and when Saab’s latest tech come’s online, GM will be very aware their time will be limited.
So in GM’s eyes it’s Them or Saab to survive the game, and their game is stop the competitiveness now, by saying NO to everything Saab.
They can see what’s coming.
baas900i said on February 14, 2012
can someone explain the ongoing dislike of DI? how do they stay in business?
Katsura said on February 14, 2012
If YM really had alternative motives, why do you think they want to bid for the whole company rather than just the parts that they want? So you really think the SAAB Badge means ANYTHING in China? Apart from a tiny group of dedicated fans, SAAB’s brand name doesn’t mean crap to the average person there. They could care less. The fact YM wants to bid for the whole company means they have an ambition of maintaining it for the western markets.
Chris Carrier said on February 14, 2012
I think it DOES mean something. I mean, come on, if Buick is the hottest name, Saab could carry some weight.
Katsura said on February 14, 2012
You do not know the Chinese market nor the mentality when it comes to luxury goods. I can tell you it takes a very special Chinese to like Saab.
Quijote said on February 14, 2012
Don’t think this has been covered just yet…
Seems like Mahindra is also after Ducati? Its all speculation, but where there’s smoke, there’ fire, right?
That sounds sweet… imagine Saabs and Ducatis sharing showroom space. lol
Hans H said on February 14, 2012
xelav said on February 14, 2012
Hahaha, can’t you guys see that this leeds to nothing constructive. Eas up, or trow some icecubes in your hair. This is à , no ,THE Saab forum, not a calimero kindergarten.
JP said on February 14, 2012
Interesting…
http://forbesindia.com/blog/business-strategy/mms-saab-story/#