Thoughts on the state of Saab

As we could see on di.se the receivers again stressed that their goal is to sell Saab as a whole. This means that nothing has changed in their attitude recently. The same article mentions that another bidder has placed a bit without disclosing its identity. Rest assured that there are a lot of things happening behind the scenes at the moment and I am pretty happy that those things are kept there. It is an indication that those things are serious.

Some reports/rumors we could read last week told us that there are bids for parts of Saab. Is that a surprise? No, not at all. Those who’d like to get a piece of the cake of course try to mention that just in case the sale-as-a-whole thing should fall apart. And even if it is not a nice thought the positive thing about that is that is shows the value Saab still represents. Because of that many parties placed such bids on Saab. The local rival also is one of them. But even if a bit of rivalry can be fun I would not want to take it as far as stating that Volvo wants to butcher Saab. They are just doing what many more are doing, too. No need to start bashing them as they are not the ones who decide if Saab is sold in pieces. In the end I could imagine that Volvo would be happier with a Saab that is alive. There are synergies they could explore and those are worth more than a few machines they can buy cheaply.

I have been one of those stating pretty clearly that GM will refuse to give their licenses to any buyer since it was not supporting their own interests and I still think that is true. Still, reports said that parties interested in Saab are in talks with GM on licensing. This seems to be a contradiction on first look. But if you give it another look there could be parties who have somthing to offer to GM. Not just money, someting else that can be interesting enough to let them change their mind or at least give it a second thought. GM is driven by shareholder value, so if you got the right package, you might get them on your side.

Right now nothing is certain but everything is negotiable. Keep the faith and be careful when it comes to rumors. This may take a bit more time but if it leads to a proper result it is sure worth it.

saabtec
Member
4 years 7 months ago

Thanks, I needed that! The second to last paragraph has sparked some curiosity. I felt that if GM could benefit from this, other than a crushing blow, they would. Sit back and wait it out. Not an easy thing to do. We are an impatient sort.

Angelo V.
Member
4 years 7 months ago

1) The problem with GM licensing is….well, is you still have to deal with GM. Who knows what ridiculous conditions they’d put on an arrangement? Perhaps controlling the markets, present and future, where a buyer could sell cars?
2) Through all of this, have the Receivers expressed any sense of urgency? If not a sense of urgency, have they indicated a reasonable timeline that Saab needs to be sold as a complete entity? I would think time is of the essence.

Jonas Axelsson
Member
4 years 7 months ago

If the conditions imposed by GM are so ridiculous why did your hero Victor sign them? He has admitted on interviews that were linked here from SU that he was aware of that conditions.

This has me perplexed. How can you lionize one; the one who signed the contracts you deem so evil?

My God, I wouldn’t let that man touch anything legal if he was that foolish? Or he had something else in mind?

Angelo V.
Member
4 years 7 months ago

Why are you calling him my hero? I do appreciate that he agreed to the deal imposed by GM—-because that seems to be the only reason there was a Saab the last two years. I’ve already gone on record as saying I think things should have been done far differently than they were done while he had control—-won’t bother to rehash it all (hint-hint: Go from 40 to 30, not 40 to 50). Anyway, I can’t recall lionizing him.

Carlo A
Member
4 years 7 months ago

Thanks ….
Timing is crucial, let’s hope so parties will move quickly …
Griffin Up !!!

leriksso
Member
4 years 7 months ago

Agree with this, we must calmly wait until we know more than rumors.
We need to keep your spirits up and can not speculate on rumors.
We wait and hope …… We are many, we are SAAB

hans h
Member
4 years 7 months ago

Thanks.

No Volvo bashing please. Volvo is a pretty good car. Saab is just better. 😉

hogge
Member
4 years 7 months ago

As I’ve said before, I’d like to see Volvo and Saab stop competing. I’d love to see really basic, practical RWD Volvos, like a new Volvo 240. And maybe a sporty, youthful retro-styled Amazon.

And on the other hand, I’d like to see Saab return to rally and produce a new Sonett: a small, light, cheap sportscar. I bet if Saab’d make a TRUE Sonett (no luxury, not a convertible, just a small honest to god two seater sports car), we’d end up with the worlds most eco-friendly car!

3cyl
Member
4 years 7 months ago

Yes, Volvo is a good replacement for Oldsmobile.

Angelo V.
Member
4 years 7 months ago

Damn you. That comment made me laugh hard enough to hurt my stomach—-which is still in bad shape after the Super Bowl eating weekend. I can see the TV commercials now: This IS your Dad’s Volvo—-it’s not a Saab—-it’s the replacement for Oldsmobile that you’ve all been waiting for!

3cyl
Member
4 years 7 months ago

Print the bumper stickers. Perhaps SU will want to distribute them.

leriksso
Member
4 years 7 months ago

It’s about taste. I do not see Volvo as a competitor but as a potential partner.

I just want SAAB to survive.

In this situation, talk about what is better than the other seems to me a bit like talking about respect of which one is your favorite color and why.

3cyl
Member
4 years 7 months ago

Good Taste vs. Bad Taste.

Aero1
Member
4 years 7 months ago

Black- Because everything looks good with it, my Aero is faster in Black!

theSandySaab
Member
4 years 7 months ago
Look at this list: http://dir.yahoo.com/recreation/automotive/makes_and_models/ When will any of the major players be up for grabs again??? Probably never ever. The whole Saab debacle has put an established brand for sale, with lots of content (while some unfortunately held and restricted by GM). While there are some issues with the name, I can see this as a golden opportunity for investors (lesser name industry players and manufacturers) to get a channel (tunneling) into this brand with its’ heritage, history, image and some of the technology. This kind of opportunity is not coming every decade, so surely, there must be some… Read more »
turbokalle
Member
4 years 7 months ago

Thank you for a good, balanced report Till.
During this turmoil I just wanted to share with you all the pure joy I get from getting in front of the wheel of my Saab every day. I bought a -11 95 TTiD Aero in september and I have never regretted the decision buying it. No matter what happens we will still have our Saabs for years to come, so please keep driving your Saabs with pride and joy! Keep talking about the cars and keep people aware of Saab. We WILL be back!!! 🙂

MarcB
Member
4 years 7 months ago
Great perspective and encouraging that progress is being made. Obviously this takes time, and the longer it takes, the longer and more expensive it will be to reassemble Saab as it was in terms of people. That said, those of us who are fans need to do everything we can to hold off on buying a new car until the company is ready to deliver … or until it is absolutely clear that the brand is at an end. Pent up demand and an explosion of new Saab purchases will really demonstrate the potential. So, suck it up, keep those… Read more »
Angelo V.
Member
4 years 7 months ago

Those offers are ridiculous. Give up my beautiful Saab 9-5 toward the purchase of a Chevy Sonic and get $250.00 for my loyalty? Yeah, right.

CYQB
Member
4 years 7 months ago

Last june, in Canada, GM offered me $1000.00 for loyalty… I bought a new Saab! Sorry GM 🙂

Saabissimo
Member
4 years 7 months ago

Good write-up Till.

Much better to keep a cool head and keep the emotions at bay whenever unconfirmed rumours emerge.

That said, interesting to hear about the “European” bid. I wonder if that’s the same one that our German blogging friend (Tom?) has hinted about earlier.

saabfanatic
Member
4 years 7 months ago

Considering the rejection of the YM’s offer last week, does it mean they are out of the picture at this point?

Soren Christensen
Member
4 years 7 months ago
Till72, I think you are right that GM’s preferred solution is not to license to anyone. They have said that very clearly. However, a few things have happened since then. It is now clear that Saab might very well be acquired as a hole and re-started and Youngman is (perhaps) a strong candidate. They seem to be willing to go a long way. GM has clearly demonstrated their resistance towards any transferral of IP to Youngman or any other Chinese company for that matter. Even without licenses to 9-5 and 9-4X acquisition of Saab would mean a massive leap in… Read more »
saaburban
Member
4 years 7 months ago

An anonymous bid…. That’s what I call exciting:
Could it be:
– GM / Opel buying back some know-how, tools and testing equipment.
– Established maker (Bmw, Fiat, Toyota) who don’t want there name until a done deal.
– Koenigsegg & Co. They know what they are buying and won’t go for the factory sales tour. Norweigan oilmoney.
– SWAN with new GM safe investors,
– Saab AB Defence ….. A long shot!
– Ikea, They can pull it off to sell Scandinavian design made in china.
– Tata/Landrover to pick a fight with Geely/Volvo

TurboLover
Member
4 years 7 months ago

Well, it was European AND an autoindustry, wasn’t it? Strips your list a bit to BMW and Fiat (and Koenigsegg). But let us ad Renault, PSA and Daimler. Can not imagine VW, they already have one brand to much…

My guess is Renault. They do not have a brand in the premium segment and are used to us Swedes (via their connection to AB Volvo)

Iiari
Member
4 years 7 months ago

No, I seriously doubt Renault. They have Infiniti, with a full range of near premium and premium models, so they definitely don’t need Saab.

TurboLover
Member
4 years 7 months ago

You are correct, forgot about Infiniti

saaburban
Member
4 years 7 months ago

Yeah, ‘european’ probably means non- swedish, non-asian or american owned company.
Sob a ‘european’ manufacturer that needs saabs;
– International brand
– Knowhow R&D
– Tools and production line.

Are the Russians back, what happen to that ex-Saab guy that went from GM to a Russian manufacturer….

Angelo V.
Member
4 years 7 months ago

Ford—-to once again show the world that they can do what GM can’t!

TurboLover
Member
4 years 7 months ago

Well, they are American and have recently sold their P.A.G. and created the idea of “One Ford”. I think Heintz Tomato Ketchup is a more likely buyer than Ford… 😉

Iiari
Member
4 years 7 months ago
I agree. They’re sinking a ton of cash into Lincoln in the coming years. I just came from the Northeastern Auto Show and got a look at the 2013 MKS… The redo is much more attractive than the photos I’ve seen, much more interesting than the 2012 models. I’m looking forward to seeing the MKZ concept. But, still, what’s a Lincoln? I wasn’t impressed with the 2013 Fusion in photos but let me tell you, in the metal, it’s absolutely gorgeous and makes all its competitors look 10 years old (especially the Camry, which was sitting right next to it).… Read more »
Rolf Hägg
Guest
4 years 7 months ago

I really liked the 2013 Fusion. Looks solid. Per usual w/ American cars, outside looks great, inside, not so much…

rask
Member
4 years 7 months ago

Well, maybe Honeywell? They are European (from Turkey).

Although they said something about waiting to give their offer when instructed to do so…

tupolev141
Member
4 years 7 months ago

I would like to see what BMW could do. After all, SAABs are freude am fahren but with FWD/XWD. Trouble is, that BMW has Mini, and it will be much easier to expand Mini upwards in the segments than to buy up SAAB and Create a niche for it under BMW but above Mini, with some overlap here and there.

tupolev141
Member
4 years 7 months ago

And forgot to add: BMW has bad memories taking over ailing car manufacturers. They will not want a second Rover adventure.

Kikaluka
Member
4 years 7 months ago

Agree that BMW doesn’t need Saab. But it will be looking at VW and their different brand strategy. Mini can’t be stretched to 9-3, 9-4 nor 9-5 size, the brandname simply gets in the way. As recent models show, BMW is forced to be pretty conservative in their designs (just like Audi and Mercedes), afraid to scare away current clientele. Adding a brand that is more outspoken and daring in design makes sense. With all the new product Saab simply is no Rover, so that shouldn’t stop them. My bet is they are at the table

OddJob
Member
4 years 7 months ago

Saab could fit BMW expansion plans perfectly as a counter brand. BMW has a very strong profile. Many love it, but there are also many people who could never think of buying a bimmer because of what it represents. Mini can’t be stretched forever.

lundin
Member
4 years 7 months ago

Might be Fiat indeed, apparently Mr M is looking for new partners to achive his goal of zillion cars sold world-wide. Has been featured in many articles lately. Fiat was also very quick calling Saab about engine options once the bancruptcy broke.

In any event, Saab “as-is” is not of interest for Fiat, but if they can merge it with a big player in a emerging market,like mahindra they might see it differently.

But then doesnt really sounds like a plan from M anyway.

OliverH
Member
4 years 7 months ago
FIAT failed back at the time GM took over, but they were the 2 in place at that time. FIAT knows about Saabs knowledge (Project Tipo and Pixbö platform). They need help to keep and get Chrysler on track. And if FIAT presents a new diesel engine GM lost it deal of the old 1.9 tid/ cdti and further developments (like th 2.0). GM would be than limited on the second choice VM Motori if they like to continue diesel engines. Or maybe they partner up with a new Isuzu diesel with new failure by design. Diesel is on of… Read more »
paddan
Member
4 years 7 months ago

As I see it, even if an OEM car manufacturer were to purchase Saab, it would still need GM to supply IP and produce the existing cars in the interim while other platforms gear up unless it plans on not coming back for 3-5 years. Otherwise any buyer would have to start from scratch in terms of design, manufacture, distribution and sales.

Angelo V.
Member
4 years 7 months ago

But not for the 9-3, right?

paddan
Member
4 years 7 months ago

I wouldn’t bet my 900 on that.

xelav
Member
4 years 7 months ago

Mercedes stops with maybach, are already with Renault / Nissan (infinity) together in producing engines and also buzy with à platform for à small car, (twingo/smart/ micra?), but could be à bidder for Saab , good engines(diesels)! ???

CYQB
Member
4 years 7 months ago

GM believe they will do more money if Saab dies. So they will do and say everythings to make this happen. But if Saab survives (and it will), GM will do some money on each car produced by Saab in the next few years. So I see a window open for future negotiation between GM and new Saab’s owner. 9-5 and 9-4X are not dead yet! Also, I don’t see Saab as a direct competition for GM, especially for the 9-3 and 9-5.

xelav
Member
4 years 7 months ago

Platform sharing with future Renault Laguna on Phoenix ? Just à thought…

TurboLover
Member
4 years 7 months ago

Hmmm, could it be this?
http://ttela.se/ekonomi/saab/1.1519816-volvo-vi-vill-ha-delar-av-saab-

i.e. Volvo PV + “others”

hmmmm

dezzer
Member
4 years 7 months ago

No Volvo……buy it all or nothing….where’s all these other bids then, youngman put a bid in so they must have known what they were bidding for so why hasn’t anyone else come forward……the price must be there somewhere !!!

saabo
Member
4 years 7 months ago

It´s frustrating not getting the info one has been used to during the last 2 years. But maybe we need to take this as a good sign, that the people working with this deal are serious. At least I hope so…

dezzer
Member
4 years 7 months ago

i had a full head of hair before this bankcrupcy !!!

CSD_ChineseSaabDriver
Member
4 years 7 months ago

LOL

Thanks friend I like the humor 😉

Galway-Saab
Member
4 years 7 months ago

Stop the rollercoaster …….. . . . . . .beside Youngman or Mahindra or Turkey or whatever just stop ….sorry getting a little titchey !! I know the process takes time and better to get it right now than have a stop in production six months after it begins . Saab will survive .

Galway-Saab
Member
4 years 7 months ago

dont worry it will come back just like Saab 🙂

Angelo V.
Member
4 years 7 months ago

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2012-02-03/youngman-in-talks-to-buy-some-or-all-of-saab-to-expand-globally.html

This is dated for today, Monday, February 6. I don’t like the phrasing—-“parts of/some of.” I don’t see any declarations about the resumption of Saab production either.

dezzer
Member
4 years 7 months ago

slightly worrying to say the least !!

Rolf Hägg
Guest
4 years 7 months ago

No shock to me… Go anybody else!

OliverH
Member
4 years 7 months ago

Lack of money.

xelav
Member
4 years 7 months ago

What is a fusion? A new unknown Saab ? Or à medicine for bold people?

David-SAAB
Member
4 years 7 months ago

Things need to move along though, time is of the essence here. How long are these administrators going to take to complete this transaction.

xelav
Member
4 years 7 months ago

Okay, but does fiat have the money? A few years ago there where rumors about a Fusion;) between fiat and opel(GM), and now they bought Chrysler .

OliverH
Member
4 years 7 months ago

They played a nice game with GM. GM stepped out of the joint venture (Powertrain) gave FIAT a big case of money and the Saab Pixbö platform, the former new 95. FIAT got healthy and bought Chrysler and become a big player and a to big portfolio and partly bad managed brands (Lancia, Alfa).

xelav
Member
4 years 7 months ago

What did fiat do with Pixbö platform?

OliverH
Member
4 years 7 months ago

They used it on an Alfa

Dejjo
Member
4 years 7 months ago

this is a game that i just have to play becaus of this pic…

http://games.gamepressure.com/view_screen.asp?ID=193993

Allan B
Member
4 years 7 months ago

Just praying for a successful outcome, whoever it is.

Tilley
Member
4 years 7 months ago

It has been ‘too’ quiet…..eerily quiet. Feels like something is about to happen.

MeanSabean
Member
4 years 7 months ago

Go Magna Go!

CYQB
Member
4 years 7 months ago

+1

jond
Member
4 years 7 months ago
All this discussion about the sale of ‘parts’ does not seem to me to be so worrying. After all, the sale of Saab as a ‘whole’ will involve bundling up a number of parts owned by a variety of different bodies and getting their joint agreement – SweGov for Saab Parts and Tools, PangDa for Saab UK, Hemfosa et al. In order to get an overall agreement someone, preferably the bidder, must divide up the bid into its constituent parts. In short, everyone will be bidding for parts, except a number of the bidders will wish to make their bid… Read more »
Mark
Member
4 years 7 months ago

The only way to deal with GM is to figure out a way to make it more costly for it not to license Saab production than it would be to license it. Unfortunately that’s all it understands.

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