Youngman meeting the receivers

ttela.se reports that right now the receivers are meeting Youngman for further discussions on their bid. Reportedly both Pang Qingnian and Rachel Pang are part of the Chinese delegation, as well as representatives of a Chinese bank. It will most likely be about financial details as well as about their plans for Saab.

The starting point is the bid, the Chinese company previously put on Saab, the forms of and ability to find a way forward.

Youngman has already had considerable difficulties, given that GM said no, but have tried to find a solution that does not include the technology licenses as GM controls, which eliminates most of the models that Saab had.

While I’ve been quite critical towards Youngman in the past I still hope that they are able to present a sound plan to overcome all hurdles in their way. Every party that is in the process is good because it raises the chance that Saab is kept together and cars start rolling out of the Trollhättan factory again some time in the future.

But most of all it is good to see the process is moving forward and serious talks have started.

Eric
Member
4 years 6 months ago

BMW would be my #1 choice, but honestly I think anyone who buys the brand as a whole to produce cars under the SAAB brand will try their best to do it justice. They know how rabid the fanbase is, and if they screw around they will have virtually no support in the marketplace.

If you can’t sell a Saab to a Saab owner, who the hell can you sell one to?

Martin T16s
Member
4 years 6 months ago

Providing it remains a Saab!

Carlo A
Member
4 years 6 months ago

yes, the Chinese and Indians give me more certainty that they need a European brand …

Simply9-5
Member
4 years 6 months ago

I certainly hope that the receivers are fully aware that GM is saying no to anybody attempting to get the licenses and taking that into account…

It would be unthinkable if they are holding the mindset that GM should/must be apart of this in really any way.

Eric
Member
4 years 6 months ago

With the people who dropped out I think anyone interested has to understand that by now right? Plus Youngman was denied by GM twice now right?

Angelo V.
Member
4 years 6 months ago

I fully agree. If the Receivers are under the dellusion/misconception that GM is going to transform from arrogant obstructionist to business-like partner, we’re all in trouble.

DMR
Member
4 years 6 months ago

We all know that if there are no better options left, ovlov will be in the news. So, one can only hope that there are better options being discussed…

Angelo V.
Member
4 years 6 months ago

I’m widowed. Do we know if Rachel Pang married?

saabfanatic
Member
4 years 6 months ago

Angelo, You should submit a proposal through the receivers before she goes back to China. You never know, everything has a price in this capitalist world (except for GM). Man, she must be loaded, I’m afraid you have to come up with something really big though!

Angelo V.
Member
4 years 6 months ago

What I have isn’t very big I’m afraid. I do have a nice Saab 9-5 though!

saabfanatic
Member
4 years 6 months ago

Sorry buddy, she probably drives a Maserati that dady bought her!

Angelo V.
Member
4 years 6 months ago

She won’t be slumming it too badly with me—-I can afford to take her to the best places in and around Washington, DC! Maybe she can fly her Dad’s private jet here (if he has one—not sure how that works with a communist govt.)

davidgmills
Member
4 years 6 months ago

You just need to get a NG 9-5 to get her attention. It has a commodious back seat where you can begin some serious negotiations.

3cyl
Member
4 years 6 months ago

Angelo, if you are worried about not being big enough take a look at the ads in the back of most auto enthusiast magazines. They usually have a few enhancement products advertised there.

Angelo V.
Member
4 years 6 months ago

I don’t need one of those devices to “enhance.” I’m sure Rachel can enhance me!

ivo 71
Member
4 years 6 months ago

Well, you have a big cat…

Ivo

Carlo A
Member
4 years 6 months ago

I intend to kill my girlfriend …. is Rachel Pang married? 🙂

saabman
Member
4 years 6 months ago

Guys, I hate to douse your enthusiasm, but I think Miss Pang is out of the league of just about everyone here on SU. Because anyone in her league would have been able to make a bid for Saab himself!

Angelo V.
Member
4 years 6 months ago

She might be tired of the pretentious bastards playing in her league—-maybe she wants a “regular” guy for a change!

Quijote
Member
4 years 6 months ago

Although I still think Youngman is a long shot, you have to respect their persistence and tenacity. These are very admirable traits to have, especially in the context of this situation.

+1 Youngman

Angelo V.
Member
4 years 6 months ago

Totally agree. I’d pull for BMW or Mahindra over YM—–but I really admire how hard YM has tried and the investments they’ve already made.

Allan B
Member
4 years 6 months ago

Agree. They do seem pretty determined.

mikaik
Member
4 years 6 months ago
I guess whoever buys the factory to produce cars and gives a second chance to people in TH is ok. But deep down, I can’t stop hoping it’d be someone who would get the licenses from GM. Partly because I’m selfish, and I want to make sure there will be parts for my 9-5 in the years to come. And partly because the 9-5 SC is such a nice car that I truly think the automotive world would be at a loss not having it around. OT: I get more and more appreciative looks from people who seem genuinely impressed… Read more »
Angelo V.
Member
4 years 6 months ago
There’s no question that the best path forward with the best opportunity for success is for full production of the 9-4, 9-5 and 9-3 with GM IP. The new models are beautiful cars, no doubt about it. I think the last 9-5 might be the best looking Saab ever produced. I’m not sure how reliable they are—-hopefully they are mechanically good but I don’t know anyone who owns one and so few were sold, I don’t think they are even rated in consumer magazines. But if GM continues to stay the course of trying to bury Saab, we need a… Read more »
Greg Abbott
Member
4 years 6 months ago

I’ve had my 2010 9-5 Aero for 18 months now, and I have 12,500 miles on it. It’s been nearly flawless, and it’s just amazing to drive.

I realize the plural of anecdote is not data, but for me it’s been exceptionally reliable.

FYI

Angelo V.
Member
4 years 6 months ago

That is good to hear. I have a 2004—-bought new—-and the first real mechanical I had to do was last week—-a leaking heater bypass valve that wasn’t even a very expensive repair and it was covered by an extended GM warranty (GMPP). Unfortunately for me, that extended warranty runs out this Summer—-then I’m on my own.

Nate 9-3
Member
4 years 6 months ago

Take it from me y’all, his car is AWESOME.

mikaik
Member
4 years 6 months ago

I’ve had the front brake disks replaced on my 2,8 V6 9-5. I’ve been told it’s a problem with this model. Luckily, they’ve got the new disks in december, before the bankruptcy, so it was coved by warranty. Other than that, only the steering column error, a couple of times.

I’ve had the car for a year now, and I’m very happy with it. This is why I can’t imagine the 9-5 going to the bin just like that.

E
Member
4 years 6 months ago

I also have a 2010 9-5 Aero but for 15 months now, with 17,500 miles and it too, has been nearly flawless. My favorite of 7 SAABs over the past 9 years.

davidgmills
Member
4 years 6 months ago

Its my favorite of the 15 Saabs I’ve owned. So if the plural of anecdote is not data (great line Greg) how about the quintuplet of anecdote? Are we getting close to data yet?

Greg Abbott
Member
4 years 6 months ago

It’s not my line, but I don’t remember who the original source was. And, yes, I think we’re getting close to data. 🙂

ivo 71
Member
4 years 6 months ago

It’s attributed to many people, Roger Brinner being the most quoted. Some guy did a lot of research on the ethymology of this classic: http://bearcastle.com/blog/?p=408
Interesting stuff to read.

Ivo

simonswisssaab
Member
4 years 6 months ago
As Bullnose has just raised the point about GM IP, I think Mahindra are the only ones in with a chance of doing some kind of deal on this, and even this is not going to be easy. This is the only way a relatively seamless transition to Saab production is going to happen, otherwise there is going to be a long hiatus, and with it a danger that things for Saab could change radically – and maybe also not for the best. Angelo, I have a new 95 2.8 v6 xwd. It’s a lovely car. The v6 engine is… Read more »
Bullnose
Member
4 years 6 months ago
SWAN seemed to have a deal that allowed them to carry on with GM technology, but they ran out of funds. I would guess that most previous bidders for the bankrupt company would be hoping for a GM deal so that they could restart the production at minimum cost. Now we seem to be in a phase where the remaining bidders are having to accept that GM are not going to agree to their IP technology being used, so in my mind that really means only bidders with deep pockets and able to stand two years of massive losses will… Read more »
Angelo V.
Member
4 years 6 months ago
Yes Bullnose and I think GM considered this carefully before licensing to SWAN—-they’re incompetent at most things over at GM, but were unstupid enough to figure that SWAN couldn’t hack it in the economy of that period of time (in fact, an economy that hasn’t come close to fully recovering, even now). GM seems to be an expert at financial failure and I think they knew SWAN couldn’t succeed long term and as it turned out, short term either. They picked someone ripe for failure and offloaded the business with virtually no serious risk, maintaining the control they are exercising… Read more »
davidgmills
Member
4 years 6 months ago
What was the point of selling knowing the sale was doomed? So they could lose even more money and make more people pissed off at GM? I think GM was hoping on VA getting in eventually just was much as VM was hoping, and was hoping Saab would have enough money to make it. Otherwise these license agreements just cost GM in multiple ways. GM certainly hasn’t made any money on their licenses to Spyker and all they have done is increased ill will against GM by this venture with Spyker. When you have a partner that fails you fail… Read more »
Carlo A
Member
4 years 6 months ago

I totally agree with Bullnose

Carlo A
Member
4 years 6 months ago

and Angelo

belgian_roadster from Eupen, DG
Member

General Motors and PSA Peugeot Citroen agreed this week to form a long-term alliance to share vehicle platforms and jointly purchase parts and materials.
Sign up for the Automotive News Europe Congress to hear confirmed speakers PSA CEO Philippe Varin and Opel CEO Karl-Friedrich Stracke!

Maybe now that GM is getting a bit “frenchie” they relax and agree some licenses 😉

saabfanatic
Member
4 years 6 months ago

So, does this translate to Peugeot/Citroen emblams on the Chevets from now on?

davidgmills
Member
4 years 6 months ago

Chevrolet is French anyhow. GM is going back to its roots.

Carlo A
Member
4 years 6 months ago

or maybe they did not want to share IP to avoid jeopardising the deal with PSA …. anyhow stuff GM

Troels, Denmark
Member
4 years 6 months ago

Sounds more plausible..

Rolf Hägg
Guest
4 years 6 months ago

Question: Have any of these bidders ever said anything about reinstating warranties on 2010 – 2011 models? Just curious.

quickbird
Member
4 years 6 months ago

Don’t think that will happen. We (2010-2011 owner) are already abandoned by this world. I am one of these poor guys….

Angelo V.
Member
4 years 6 months ago
Don’t give up yet. A new owner will probably want to generate goodwill with Saab owners—-particularly those who just plunked down to buy. I think they will do a cost analysis to find out how badly they’ll be hurt by reinstating/covering the warranties. If they think the goodwill they buy is worth the cost they will incur, they might just cover these cars. It’s not a huge amount of cars—-and maybe they will choose not to cover the cars sold after the date when everyone knew there was no warranty coverage, as that fact was built into the low cost… Read more »
Eric
Member
4 years 6 months ago

Yeah, I don’t think they’ll cover those who bought the cars on fire sale “as is” since those were sold as used cars. If they manage to bring Saab back and do *not* cover 2010/2011 owners to paid the full retail price of their car, I will probably end up trading my Saab in and buying a BMW or Audi. Love my 93 Combi, but not going to deal with a brand who doesn’t look after those who support them.

TonymacUK
Member
4 years 6 months ago

In the UK a replacement scheme is on offer at a cost, but there are so many exclusions it doesn`t seem worth the paper it`s written on. I`m probably going to hold out to see what any new owner does, hopefully re-instate the original warranty – in my case 2yrs and 4mths – or rely on SAAB reliability.

quickbird
Member
4 years 6 months ago

Cannot rely on Saab reliability. Last summer after one month I got my 93, the moonroof cannot close. It is not a major problem, but with dealers 130 miles away, 120F degree everyday in summer, and my busy work day schedule, I have to drove the car with moonroof open with 120F degree for several days and finally SCNA took care of it….

rune
Member
4 years 6 months ago
Sorry to hear about your troubles, but this is not how one would go about measuring reliability. You need a statistically significant sample size before you can even begin to think about that. (and that is before you deal with the question: What signifies reliability anyway? A broken cam shaft is probably a tad more serious than a worn out brake disc… How is that reflected in the stats?) Saabs usually score quite well in reliability surveys. See: http://saabsunited.saabklubben.se/2010/08/saab-reliability-ratings-from-germany.html And finally… Who made the part in question? Tim told me about a guy with an Audi that asked an Audi… Read more »
Rolf Hägg
Guest
4 years 6 months ago

That is exactly what I would do with my 9-3 2.0 as well…

Peter Doyle
Member
4 years 6 months ago

What vehicle could be made without GM technology?

Carlo A
Member
4 years 6 months ago

I understood only the current 9-3 and the new ones on the Phoenix platform … but then on the current 9-3 there is the problem of the engines, I guess

Sockmonkey
Member
4 years 6 months ago
Carlo, As has been mentioned elsewhere, Saab has a history of getting engine suppliers, most recently VM’s agreement to have BMW supply Saab during the SWAN ownership period. It all depends on the eventual owner. I suppose a quick fix for YM would be to purchase or license the old Saab B235 (2.3 liter) engine back from BAIC who now owns the toolings and design and produces it for their cars. M&M has a series of diesels from 2.2 to 2.5 liters producing 100-120 bhp (and I’m sure MapTun and Hirsch can quickly coax more power from these). Ssangyong (owned… Read more »
Red J
Member
4 years 6 months ago

A Diesel 9-3 with automatic transmission, AFAIK

zippy
Member
4 years 6 months ago

If Saab is bought in its entirety it will be at least 4 years before we see another Saab.

Red J
Member
4 years 6 months ago

Not that long.

But it depends if they want to continue where SWAN had to quit, or if they want to start from scratch.

quickbird
Member
4 years 6 months ago

I heard from some news that the current 93 can be produced in 18 months…Forget about GM, the REBORN Saab WILL NEVER HAVE ANYTHING RELATED TO GM, IF IT HAS THE CHANCE TO…

TonymacUK
Member
4 years 6 months ago

If any new owner can proceed only with the 9-3, I think with a slight face lift to the interior and SID and Satnav upgrade and the price pitched correctly (lower), this car could be a good seller. I`ve just walked across the Supermarket carpark towards my MY12 9-3 SC and think that so-called dated body looks every bit as good as the competitors – low, lean and ready to go, like a greyhound waiting in it`s trap. SAAB UP!

Angelo V.
Member
4 years 6 months ago

I agree. It’s a good looking car and many prospective buyers (if they lower the price a bit) have never been in one or seen one up close. It will look fresh to them, especially with a minor facelift. That car could still sell in reasonable numbers. The real question is, can GM block the 9-3 too? Because if they can, they undoubtedly will.

Red J
Member
4 years 6 months ago

Angelo, at least two bidders want to check if GM really can.

But on the last interview from just-auto to a GM spokesman, this spokesman said this:

“They approached us and sent letters – we responded saying we were not interested in having negotiations or discussions. We would not be producing the 9-4X or licensing technology for the 9-5 to anyone following the sale of Saab – we have not changed our position.”

He was talking about Brightwell, and although I’ve re-read this sentence many times, I can’t find no reference to the 9-3.

davidgmills
Member
4 years 6 months ago

I would say the same to Brightwell and any other bidder that didn’t have deep pockets. That is how you run these lesser bidders off. You say these kinds of things publicly.

I bet GM’s tune would be entirely different with Mahindra and BMW (behind closed doors of course). Which is how I suspect this is really being handled.

Allan B
Member
4 years 6 months ago

“He was talking about Brightwell, and although I’ve re-read this sentence many times, I can’t find no reference to the 9-3.”

My God, Holmes, I think you’ve cracked it!

RS
Member
4 years 6 months ago
Tony, I couldn’t agree more. With a slight upgrade to the interior and the display the 9-3 has plenty of life in it. At a quick glance a pre-2011 3-series nose look surprisingly similar to a Griffin’s. So Saab can’t be outdated on the outside by more than a year compared to the trend setter. YM or M&M should really try to push the TTiD to N.A. asap to have something completely new to offer Saabers on the other side of the pond. Angelo, you’d be shocked how many MPG you’d get from a 180 hp engine. A way to… Read more »
Angelo V.
Member
4 years 6 months ago

RS: I agree with you. My 9-5 wagon has a 220 HP engine that gets me a solid 30 MPG on the highway. Of course, I’m not sure about the 9-3 but the 9-5 requires the most expensive, high octane fuel—-so no, I don’t think the MPG justifies a higher sticker price because the savings are offset by having to spend more on the fill-up. I think the price can be brought down with a 9-3 model that has fewer features—-premium cloth instead of leather, possibly even manual adjust seats instead of power accessories.

Baver
Member
4 years 6 months ago

Angelo, as an owner of a NG9-5, I can tell you that it does not require the most expensive, high octane fuel. It may run better on it, but the manual clearly states that 87 octane is acceptable, unless you are at a high altitude.

Angelo V.
Member
4 years 6 months ago

My manual says “required” for the high octane, not “recommended.”

Baver
Member
4 years 6 months ago

Sorry, I see that you are referring to your OG 9-5. Still, I am surprised. My ’99 and ’03 9-5s both took regular unleaded. The ’99 was a 6 cyl, the ’03 was a 4 cyl. Do you have the Aero?

Angelo V.
Member
4 years 6 months ago

Mine is the 2.3T Arc.

RS
Member
4 years 6 months ago

Should have been more clear (again). I meant the MPG of a 180 hp diesel.
Although I can’t remember the reason for not being pushed to N.A. before, it must have got to do with the high regulatory costs. Only this time the dealers REALLY need something to sell and the owner -whoever it is- will have a heck of a lot more cash than Spyker to get the approvals necessary.

Angelo V.
Member
4 years 6 months ago

A Saab diesel car would have a nice market in the U.S.

theSandySaab
Member
4 years 6 months ago

Do we know what is GMIP and what is not???
Understand 9-4x and new 9-5 is (nearly) 100% GMIP, but lots of tech is off the shelf from suppliers. Does the IP pertain more to chassi and body works? To what extent?
In the end what is there to buy of the bankrupt Saab estate, just approximately?
Anyone in the know?
Could a successful suitor start to build ie the convertible or the 9-3x?

turbofever
Member
4 years 6 months ago

Hello!

Is there any info leaking out from the meeting?

Daniel

Bob Conolty
Member
4 years 6 months ago

Whoever winds up owning SAAB should start advertising asap about new & “real” SAABs coming to get the anticipation going.

alyeska2112
Member
4 years 6 months ago
Here’s what I’m hoping for at this stage: a company (Youngman, or Mahindra, or BMW, or this mysterious Swedish concern, or the Law Offices of Dewey Cheatham & Howe, for all I care) to finally announce that they’ve purchased Saab, somehow managed to skirt around GM’s incessant filibustering and have serious plans underway to begin manufacturing new Saabs in Sweden ASAP. At that point, I will shout at the top of my lungs, from rooftops and rafters and websites aplenty, that Saab is back and deserving of a genuine shot at success. I pledge here and now, by the rights… Read more »
TonymacUK
Member
4 years 6 months ago

Impressive!

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