“An electrical Saab is no Saab”

Yesterday, after reading most of the information about NEVS buying Saab Automobile AB and reading some of the comments here at SU, I wrote this post.
I reads similar to what Jeff wrote yesterday, but we wrote them at the same time without knowing that the other one was also writing about it.
Although there is no new information in this post, I wanted just to show you that we here at SaabsUnited are critical versus the presented business plan from NEVS, but we also see a future for Saab in that plan.
If you like to know my thoughts about the business plan from NEVS, enjoy the post

I must admit, that today I had no access to the I-net till I went back home after work, and so I won’t be able to read 200+ comments on the different posts on the new owner of Saab Automobile AB. But on one of the few comment I’ve read somebody stated that an electrical Saab is no Saab.

From what I know, and from what I’ve read today about the plans of NEVS, I must admit that I’m a little bit disappointed. I don’t subscribe the statement an electrical Saab is no Saab, as an electric vehicle can very feel embrace the philosophy behind Saab. Saab managed to move from two stroke engines to four stroke engines, from naturally aspirated engines to turbo engines and it also managed to make a diesel behave like a Saab, so why shouldn’t Saab mange to build an EV that feels like a Saab? (Back in October 2010 I felt at home in a 9-3 e-Power).

But yes, I’m disappointed because it looks like they want to go the Tesla way, all electric. It just happens that my current company is involved in the development of e-cars for a major OEM, and I see the challenges they are facing, so I know that the Tesla way is no easy way. And willing to bring an EV in 18 months time will be a very tough job for anyone involved, but I wish them all the luck and I’m looking forward for Geneva 2014 where such a car could be presented to the public.

I’m also disappointed, because I get the impression that they want to sell only in China. So I’m hoping that something has been lost in translation.

But where is a shadow there must be light.

After going though the presentation of the press conference, I had to stop at slide #10. On that slide you can see the estimated evolution of EV and PHEV stock till 2020. I would first see those 20 million cars with a grain of salt. Experts in Germany are already saying that one million cars in 2020, as planned by the government, is a tad too optimistic. And to expect that Spain will be the third country with the biggest amount of electric cars by 2020 in the current economic situation is also really optimistic.

But this is not what cached my attention. Call me overoptimistic, but, why are they showing the numbers of the total stock of pure electric vehicles(EV) and Plug-In Hybrids (PHEV)?

If you tell people that your business plan is about selling red carpets, would you show a graph displaying the need for carpets of any colour to strengthen your business case? I, wouldn’t.

So if they think about EV in a more broad way(EV, EREV, PHEV), then Saab 2.0 can be a success, and I’m sure that many of the current Saab fans will be proud of Saab once again if NEVS succeeds with their business plan.

As I’ve said before, I’m looking forward the Geneva Motor show in march 2014, where that electric 9-3 could be presented to the broad public. Till then I will try to follow the development of the new Saabs (with the help of our friend Djup Strupe) and discuss with you the pros and cons of the existing technology used in EV and what could be in a few years time.

Using the words from somebody I know

I am sure we will start learning more in the next days , weeks, and months…

Ben
Member
4 years 3 months ago

An electric Saab is the best Saab of all.

tobbe
Member
4 years 3 months ago

Its the way to the future, a long road but the right road.

leriksso
Member
4 years 3 months ago

If electric cars are so “pure” and best way to go …..what happens to used batteries from cars and why produce electricity to cars from coal and oil? Feels a little hypocrisy to say it’s the way to the future. If you want a pure car you shall go for a hydrogen and they on the market alreddy.

gustaf
Member
4 years 3 months ago

No my friend. A SAAB made for the purpose of being a SAAB is a SAAB. Not for the purpose of satisfying politicians and collecting contributions. Noticed that most politicians are smiling these days? Sad.

sandborg
Guest
4 years 3 months ago

I suspect we are on the edge of something really spectacular for SAAB.

dezzer
Member
4 years 3 months ago

yeah…it’s called a cliff !!

Skipper
Member
4 years 3 months ago

Yep, a bloody high cliff too!

nixschel
Member
4 years 3 months ago
Don’t you think it is a wee bit early to start a discussion like this? Why not give people the possibility to actually clearly state what their intentions are? This in a way makes me think about the ever ongoing discussion “when is a Saab a Saab” and “pre and post GM Saabs”. Progress is imminent, one cannot expect a lot unless one keeps an open mind. There are some pretty interesting developments well hidden within Saab. Apart from e-AAM, there were hybrids, but then Saab-style. Different, better. If there is one brand I’d trust to re-invent the automobile, fitting… Read more »
robertp
Member
4 years 3 months ago
Hmm, the French countryside is blurring your brain a bit, but that’s probably because most French are driving on nuclear power 😉 My concerns are that the business plan seems only based on full-battery-driven electrical cars and although the batteries are getting better… there’s up till now no solution to refill the car within minutes. So, range is limited and therefor the car is for city-use or groceries only. Another concern is that the presentation and press conference points out that the market is China, China, China and maybe USA. Europe wasn’t even mentioned. The first car based on the… Read more »
Vintinck
Member
4 years 3 months ago

No refuelling EV’s in minutes? Check this out!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xu9PST7oXls

Kimberly
Member
4 years 3 months ago
Okay, so if the battery is owned by the station, then when you drive 200 miles and need to change batteries, oops, sorry, wrong company, find a participating station elsewhere (and 20 miles – oops, nope, 16 miles range left because it just started to rain and you need wipers and defrosters) – oops, nope, 12 miles. . . darn it, car is stone cold dead. Time to call AAA. *waits 120 minutes* okay, so a 60 mile haul to the nearest participating station – back toward the departure point. Oh, and sorry, all the battery packs that fit are… Read more »
Vintinck
Member
4 years 3 months ago

1) the car still has a plug so you can re-charge on your own.
2) Yes there is no infrastructure for such a system. There isn’t really an electric charging station infrastructure yet either. In many places, there is no E85 infrastructure. That’s going to be a barrier for any new technology.

golfhunter
Member
4 years 3 months ago

Like you Nic I keep confident about the future of Saab .
In France the challenge is that EV beat one day the awfull diesel cars

ivo 71
Member
4 years 3 months ago
You know, Nic, I also spend a portion of my time in the French countryside. Don’t know where you do it but in ‘my’ campagne, the Bourgogne, I have never ever seen even one full-electric vehicle driving around. A few Prius and Honda extended-range hybrids now and then, yes, but a full-EV, no. Apart from that, I’m sure that, at some point in time, EV’s will be transformed into a viable form of transportation, and rightly so. The world needs them for the city people to be able to keep breathing. It’s just that I have grave doubts that this… Read more »
boxman
Member
4 years 3 months ago

I keep reading that these cars will be built in the Saab factory by Saab engineers with Saab technology so they will be full of Saab DNA, my daughter has my DNA that doesn’t make her a bloke, I feel sad about this buy out although I do see a future for EV but I cant help feeling that NEVS will build NEVS vehicles not Saab’s.

phermansson
Member
4 years 3 months ago

Right on, nixschel! And there’s a catch 22 thats about to loosen up, at least here in Sweden. No charging stations – no EV’s. No EV’s – no charging stations. But now I think we see a new movement, where companies like Vattenfall are building charging stations. The situation was the same a few years back with E85, but I think we soon has the infrastructure in place.

saabserb
Member
4 years 3 months ago
There has been a lot of bashing of SAAB from The Truth About Cars, but if half of what is written in this article is true: http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2012/06/this-swede-second-from-right-allegedly-bought-saab/ then I think we should really be worried about the future of our beloved brand. Also I followed comments from Swedish journalists and analysts and one thing is common: It is good that someone has acquired SAAB, but it will be much harder to get this working then back in Spyker’s time. Also, I liked a comment from one jounalist saying something like this: “It is strange that a car manufacturer targeting Chjinese… Read more »
maanders
Member
4 years 3 months ago

True, that does seem to be a very odd business model to transport parts and tech from the far east to Trollhattan to build cars that will be shipped back to the far east. It is true that Saab engineers provide expertise that may not (yet) be present in China….but it sure seems like if they succeed, eventually the cars will have to be produced in China, even if Trollhattan continues to manufacture for Europe and North America.

Mark
Member
4 years 3 months ago

It does not make sense unless like others have said they are not going to produce cars in Trollhattan but have a different unpublished plan. Time will tell, but for me NEVS is not SAAB, they have much to prove before I will trust them.

How ironic there was so many on SU undermining YM when the origins and true intentions of NEVS are anything but clear.

Audun
Member
4 years 3 months ago

Please inform me:
(EV) = pure electric vehicles
(PHEV) = Plug-In Hybrids
(EREV) = ?

Sensonic
Member
4 years 3 months ago
I’d like to know the real official reasons why SAAB was sold to NEVS? Is it because the deal was supported by Swedish Government, the main person is capable to communicate is Swedish or something else? Or that they has the most viable business idea and truckloads of money to prove that? If the receivers would’ve chosen Youngman, would they have had enough money to pull it thru? I mean get the appoval from Chinese authorities to invest in SAAB (including SAAB parts company)? What about Mahindra? Were they really in top 3 candidates to purchase SAAB or did the… Read more »
adde
Member
4 years 3 months ago

IF everything went according to law, there is nothing to hide and be quite about. I see no reason to why they dont go out with the story about whole process. What are they hiding?

900jubileum
Member
4 years 3 months ago
I think like this, the moment Saab filed for bankruptcy I understand that Saab “as we now it today” has come to an end. Others may think that the history of Saab ended in 1967 when the classical Saab 96 got the four-stroke enginees from Ford, or maby in 1990 when GM bought half of Saab or prehaps in 2000 when GM took over hole of Saab. Saab has went in bankruptcy and has now be reborn and just that is fantastic for a company in that size. But who know that Saab would be more “Saabish” under Youngman for… Read more »
hans h
Member
4 years 3 months ago

I agree wholeheartedly.

We mustn’t be so gloomy. What happens if NEVS actually make this work? What if the electric or hybrid Phoenix 9-3 is a success? What if we are given a reason to be really proud of Saab again?
We must wait and see.

In the meantime I will drive my 9000CDE2.3T and my 95V4. 🙂

duckhead99
Member
4 years 3 months ago
EXACTLY what I’ve wanted to say, here, for a long time, Oskar! “That’s not a SAAB” has been the cry of those entrenched in the past many times…..When the V4 arrived, when the 99 was released, when the 99 turbo debuted ($10,000 for a SAAB….NO way!), when the 99 stretched and went upmarket to become the 900, when the transverse engined 9000 came out and, certainly, when the first GM cars hit the street “SAAB as we know it” was declared dead…….Now many of these “not SAABs” are considered icons and THEIR owners are leading the chant!….. Let’s chill out… Read more »
aeroo
Member
4 years 3 months ago
l am certain that their is relief and now hope for the former Saab workers and suppliers who hopefully will become the future long term Saab workers and suppliers, a positive future for local car manufacturing is very important . The focus of NEV on China is understandable, when you consider the relentless population growth , increased education and the ever improving GDP and the high demand for cars. China is attempting and needs to to reduce both pollution and the reliance on oil, e powered vehicles in China makes sense and the level of resistance to changing from oil… Read more »
Brian Hamilton
Member
4 years 3 months ago

I’m in Australia too, and I really hope they get this happening and open up a world market. Looking at some of the video links about EV’s, the prospects for SAAB EV’s look really good to me. I believe that ranges of over 500kms are on the horizon and will be commonplace in just a couple of years. I really love my 93 hatch, and will try to keep it forever, but now I want to start seeing SAAB EV’s. It’s time to move on!

Maarten
Member
4 years 3 months ago
Why does everyone is so agressive about NEVs plans? Is it really the all electric fleet they have planned? The lack of practicality in today’s world? Stop being so conservative. It can still mostly Saab. Our Saab! The Saab that is different and the Saab that is cool. Let’s all give the current Saabs the ‘classic’ status and keep them as a hobby, for our holidays and that other few times a year most of us go further then 400km a day. Just buy an electric one for commuting and other use on a daily basis. You have at least… Read more »
bpsorrel
Member
4 years 3 months ago

+1

Thylmuc
Member
4 years 3 months ago

http://www.ibm.com/smarterplanet/us/en/smart_grid/article/battery500.html?lnk=ibmhpcs2/smarter_planet/energy/article/battery_500

Just as an example. Eightfold anticipated capacity over Li-Ion, prototypes hopefully at the end of 2013 (interesting coincidence with NEVS’s timeline).

emil
Member
4 years 3 months ago
I’m sure we will see great development and refinement of batteries in the years to come. Perhaps batteries will become good enough that they will actually be useful in cars. But one problem remains, that can’t be solved because the laws of physics say “no”: you won’t ever be able to “fill up” your electric car in anything less than a few hours. And if batteries improve to the point of storing enough energy to provide 500km+ ranges, then charging time will increase by the same factor. The reason is that moving substantial amounts of energy from the grid to… Read more »
zippy
Member
4 years 3 months ago

Its not a Saab if it isnt even called a Saab as Saab AB hasnt given the all clear yet.

bpsorrel
Member
4 years 3 months ago

But I’ll bet they will…. 🙂

Mark
Member
4 years 3 months ago

Wouldn’t hold your breath on that one!

Coke is it
Member
4 years 3 months ago

NEWS FLASH: Nevs and Mahindra to cooperate on traditional Saabs?

Look at di.se for the article “Saabköpare söker samarbete”

Legally Saab
Member
4 years 3 months ago

True. I have also read the article. Apparently the plan is to engage Mahindra & Mahindra to finish the Phoenix platform, since NEVS lack the necessary experience in the car industry. M&M allegedly shall invest SEK 2 billion in such a project. The incentive for M&M is then to produce and sell conventional Saabs with extremely low carbondioxide emissions. NEVS will soley focus on the development of the EVs, hence cannot being accused of not telling the truth yesterday.

If this is true, I am thrilled. Smashing news!

Legally

M.A.
Member
4 years 3 months ago

More wait and see…..

bpsorrel
Member
4 years 3 months ago

Even more good news! Choice is the best thing here. Traditional Saabs for the markets where EVs won’t work and EV/Hybrid for those who want them. I hope this report is true.. 🙂

Fredrik Tagevi
Member
4 years 3 months ago

Yes! Just read, wonderful news if it’s true.

I have no problem seeing a future eSaab running the streets but with M&M as a backup with Phoenix i am trilled!

No wonder M&M was so silent.
Now we’re talking!

lundin
Member
4 years 3 months ago

Amazing!

christian
Member
4 years 3 months ago

Wow, this could indeed make my day… Visualize me freaking out like Kermit on that famous animated GIF (can’t find it at the moment).

Belfast_Saab
Member
4 years 3 months ago

🙂

Allan B
Member
4 years 3 months ago

Red J, your thoughts are interesting, but if you read the NEVS press release they have clearly stated that they will be selling cars worldwide, not just in China.

Go ask Jeff if you don’t believe me 😉

lmg
Member
4 years 3 months ago
I’m remaining skeptical towards NEVS. There is something strange about this set-up. Sure, electrics will be just as normal in tomorrow’s cars as Turbos are in Diesels today. I also happen to be working for a company supplying technology to most major OEMs. EVs been a main priority for OEMs as well as Tier1s for years now. In 12-24 month we will start see them on the road. It will be a major part of automotive future, not just in Mievs or Priuses, but also in Porsches and Ferraris. So in my mind the question is not, as most of… Read more »
Karl Ask
Member
4 years 3 months ago

Please Lets wait and see!!
I have good feelings !!!!
GRIFFIN UP !!

Brian Hamilton
Member
4 years 3 months ago
As a dedicated Saab owner for many years, I have to say that I think this is the greatest news for Saab cars. We who love our Saab’s know that Saab’s are not simply cars, but expressions of practical human innovation. I have two Saab’s, a 2000 95, and a 2001 93 Hatch. They are both beautiful cars. ‘Look and drive like new. I must say though, that if they had long range electric motors, they’d probably be even better. I know we don’t have the range yet, but I’m sure we will have very soon. No problem can withstand… Read more »
ttjr
Member
4 years 3 months ago

I hope that they will have the plant sustained in Trollhättan and the people there will have the work and support facilities nearby. And also that they hopefully make good profit, thought it will be really thougt how the taxes are payed in Sweden but if the money will come and make profit and good then it will be all good then.

Anyway company taxes are a reason why it’s expensive to manufacture things here in nordics even thought salaries aren’t that hight for regular joe on the assembly floor.

wfg
Member
4 years 3 months ago
Yes, I agree with everyone here that we should wait until place judgment on NEVS strategy but there are some aspects I am worry about and I do understand that the general opinion on Saab’s future under NEVS is not that optimistic: 1. Clearly there is an essential need to make automobile version 2.0 ! That means more efficient, more environmental save and not burning gasoline or, even worth, diesel. However…. a. Making electric cars is a step-back to automobile version 0.5 not a progression! They did not work out the first time, they will not succeed the way some… Read more »
Belfast_Saab
Member
4 years 3 months ago

Is is significnat that Shell today pulled out of Brazil bio-fuel sugar cane projects?
Is Bio out of favour?

wfg
Member
4 years 3 months ago

I hope Biofule out of nutrition foods is out of favour and biotech companies work on “biofule out of water, Co2 and light”…perhaps not long from now, we have our own reactors at home making our biofuels we need to drive our great new Saabs 🙂

Brian Hamilton
Member
4 years 3 months ago

“You cannot put so much energy into a battery to drive 500 km without carrying a 500 kg battery monster”.
How heavy is an internal combustion engine? Do we assume that all batteries must be huge blocks? If they can make a battery really slim, surely it could form a different part of a vehicle…perhaps even a floor of some sort.
I don’t know what’s possible, but who heard of a smart phone 20 years ago?

wfg
Member
4 years 3 months ago
I agree with you Brain that battery technology will allow decreasing the size of the batteries but still you need to consider that if you want to save lots of energy its either dangerous to handle (atomic fusion, hydrogen) or simply needs a lot of space (batteries). Same problem is with pure hydroge as it needs very sophisticated storage system to be save (-190 C cooled metal hydrite…..). Being realistic, to save electrical energy, we always depend on carriers as we cant save it otherwise. In Austria we pump water to lakes in order to let the water fall down… Read more »
theSandySaab
Member
4 years 3 months ago
Saabgun
Member
4 years 3 months ago

I have two Saabs a classic 96 V4 and a 9-5 2011 are they they true Saabs, to me, yes. If everybody wants to drive German lookalikes ok for me. With a Saab of any kind one will be noticed, if the next Saab is in the same spirit,
I don’t care if it’s electric or turbo or two-stroke. It’s clear that if it’s not an electric Saab it’s no Saab at all. I look to the future of Saab with an open mind and hope the get to use the name.

Martin T16s
Member
4 years 3 months ago

A bit concerning to see us here in the UK not shown on that graph!

Martin T16s
Member
4 years 3 months ago

Progress, innovation and development will not acquire you, you have to acquire it! Lets all ‘Move Our Minds’.

Rico
Member
4 years 3 months ago
Why are there so many posts so pessimistic? We should be happy to live that the chapter should SAAB. Now it seems clear that most NEVS including electric vehicles, plans to produce hybrid perhaps. This is an info. And the other plans? Do we know about it more accurate? “Rome was not built in a day” … more important is that the site remains Trollhätan that any old factory buildings are reactivated that already recruited staff, etc. .. We must be clear that there is a turbo type 99 is never again! But the Saab spirit lives on anyway. and… Read more »
MariusGTV
Member
4 years 3 months ago

While I think this may be great news for Trollhattan and for former employees who now might get their jobs back, I can’t help feeling that it is the end of an era.

The Saab we knew and loved is dead and gone.

The question is; will the new Saab (if they are allowed to call it a Saab) be one we can learn to know and love again?

I will wait and see, but I have serious doubts.

The king is dead. Long live the king.

RAnderson
Member
4 years 3 months ago
If the M & M rumor is true, it could be a good solution for keeping all potential markets happy – they could assume cost and development responsibility for low-carbon gas SAAB branded vehicles based on the Phoenix platform, giving NEVS freedom to develop an EV or hybrid based for now on the current 9-3. If anything will kill such a venture it is under-capitalization, so spreading the financial load to M & M makes sense. Lets hope this happens, the future will belong to the EV but a bridge to that future would be smart business in the short… Read more »
Brian Hamilton
Member
4 years 3 months ago

Well, I’m in Australia. ‘Looks like I’ll have to stick with my turbo petrol, and turbo LPG Saabs. At least in a few years I could update to more recent models, but by then I’d probably have this “old technology” feeling.

E. Boon
Member
4 years 3 months ago
An electrical SAAB can be as much SAAB as a petrol one. But today focussing only on elecrical is not SAAB. Besides the technical limitations of the EV technology today I wonder why Electricity Source is not part of the “green promotion” at all. Where does this eco electricity come from? Some facts on nuclear powerplants as the source for instance: France 77%, Sweden 43%, Germany 30%, UK 24%, USA 21%. Coal plants: USA 49%, China 79%, Germany 46%. 41% of the world’s electricty is made by buring coal, 15% nuclear, 20% gas, 6% oil, 16% hydro, 2% other. Environmentalist… Read more »
Mark
Member
4 years 3 months ago

An electrical Saab would be no Saab if Saab AB and Scania AB withhold the brand. SVEN perhaps?

fanofsaab
Member
4 years 3 months ago

Imagine you’re a decision maker at Saab AB and you’re considering allowing NEVS/MM to use the Saab name. What specifically are you looking for in order to do so?

dohrmc
Member
4 years 3 months ago
I have seen one electric car here in Georgia in the past several years. Lots and lots of hybrids, but only one electric car. If you were in a city, you might be able to make an argument that electric would be ok for your car. But if you are thinking of going any distance at all, forget it. GM cannot give away the Volt. I have read it is a nice car, but you cannot do anything in it without always charging it up. And, it is around $40,000 here in the USA. Barring a miracle in battery technology,… Read more »
JTMav
Member
4 years 3 months ago
While they have more capital than Stryker had, this business model looks likely to fail in a spectacular way. EV are not selling well anywhere in the world. While China is a big market it is also becoming very competitive. Remember wealth in China is almost all “new” and first generation wealth wants ostentatious showing of success. Unless they can market these electric Saabs in a different way I just don’t see enough sales and margins to make this work. Here in the US, which would be one of the most likely markets for this to work, EV sales are… Read more »
DEDELL
Member
4 years 3 months ago

Welcome to Tesla Scandinavian style.

joachim
Member
4 years 3 months ago
i dont agree… an e-saab could be a saab. why not? on the other hand, realistic is an hybrid-saab. thats what you can sell. not an e-saab or e-audi or e-bmw….. why not the Saab BioPower Hybrid Concept? we all here know that saab was testing a diesel-hybrid (http://saabsunited.saabklubben.se/2010/10/report-saab-working-on-diesel-hybrid.html), but now…. that is what we need… an not (sorry for that-this is my opinion)) a 500hp, 1000nm, “aero x turbo viggen xwd” saab. this is not typically unique saab-status…looks like tuning. i would buy here in europe without thinking a hybrid saab…. i was and be full of hope for… Read more »
theSandySaab
Member
4 years 3 months ago
An e-Saab could be as good a Saab as any nonE. The technology is getting there quickly, inventions leapfrogging each other. True electric has a demonstrator eVolvo that managed 400 km on a charge. I think this is exciting times. And just look at the markets – people are asking why an EV when there are already large companies developing the technology. Well, with that sentiment, why even try to compete on the highly competitive ICE vehicle market, where there are the greatest number of established brands and companies. The EV market is virtually non existing with a large future… Read more »
theSandySaab
Member
4 years 3 months ago

…and if you still are not convinced about the case for EVs, try this rather lengthy read, based on 4 year old technologies (the case is even stronger today…):
http://images.pluginamerica.org/EmissionsSummary.pdf

theSandySaab
Member
4 years 3 months ago
AngeloV – Yes, this compilation does take into consideration the manufacturing of batteries. What it does NOT consider is the ever more polluting extraction methods for gas and oil, including the latest hot potatoes – “fracking”, whoch would give it a slight advantage towards ICE and HEV/PHEV. One of the last arguments in the film “Revenge of the Electrical car” below, is pointing to that EV advantage – as you drive it and keep it over the years, improvements in electricity generation will actually make it cleaner and ever less polluting. If you live in Vermont the CO2 generation is… Read more »
theSandySaab
Member
4 years 3 months ago

And a new film about this new and vibrant niche:
http://www.revengeoftheelectriccar.com/

theSandySaab
Member
4 years 3 months ago

In this film you will see Nissan’s Ghosn stating: “EV is the only and inevitable future” and he is “happy for every day that the competition does not develop any EV”, but also Bob Lutz saying “thank you” to Tesla that woke him and GM up, however compromised to the PHeV Volt. The third story is about “Gadget” who builds his own EV’s, the latest a Porsche 356 EV!
I liked it!

theSandySaab
Member
4 years 3 months ago

…and finally, my favorite on-the-market, pure EV so far:
http://youtu.be/Vvqj7egMZMI
Model S – but expensive, starting at 50.000 USD + 7.500 USD.

theSandySaab
Member
4 years 3 months ago
The pure EV brands are already starting to cut up the markets, from BYD, MiEV, Leaf to Tesla. Tesla looks fantastic though, and they seem to finally getting some of the issues with their battery packs solved, and what a great idea to offer different range/size battery packs. I’d still prefer a True Electric solution, with four discrete, separate motors near the wheels, but the model X (and S) seem like terrific vehicles. Very similar to Saabs position in the 50’s with a completely different mindset and plenty of innovation and execution… Ranges are know toppling 400 km, 40 minute… Read more »
theSandySaab
Member
4 years 3 months ago

BYD says they can manufacture their latest battery without any environmental impact…
Video Link: http://www.byd.com/e6.html
???

guy davidson
Member
4 years 3 months ago

I am afraid we will have to skip a generation or two to see any true potential in the EV come forward. Gasoline engines developed over a period of 150 years to where they are now… given the current pace of technology the EV may be something to be proud of in 25 – 50 years.. Someone has to do the beta work.. but why does it have to kill Saab to do it.

theSandySaab
Member
4 years 3 months ago

Why? If you can elaborate your concerns?
Technology available today, while not just yet ready in mass production, can give you range of over 400km, quick charge times, less than an hour to full (good time for a snack or maybe lunch), unbelievable performance (ie, linear torque if desired) AND ever cleaner power source (incl manufacturing and disposal of batteries). The price is coming down, maintenance is extremely low, and Moore’s law more applicable to EV than to ICE based propulsion…
Anyone who studies up on the subject can not decline the obvious advantages, imho…
-o-0-o-
An eSaab – Yes please, very much!

Kimberly
Member
4 years 3 months ago
can give you range of over 400km, Oh, sure, until you factor in HVAC, defrosters, lighting, radio, wipers, etc. – especially in a traffic jam (resulting from an accident in a work zone where the interstate is already pinched down to a single lane) on a hot day, or worse, hot or cold night, when the lights have to be on but you’re just not moving anywhere, taking an hour to travel 1.5 mi. I guarantee with the constant drain of lights, wipers, and defrosters and HVAC your range will not be 400km. than an hour to full (good time… Read more »
Kimberly
Member
4 years 3 months ago
Hit Post too soon, typo: /s/speed of the bump/speed of the pump/ And, forgot to address one more point: Anyone who studies up on the subject can not decline the obvious advantages, imho… Likewise, anyone who considers average drivers realizes that a pure EV is not a practical solution in real-world use. Sure, if you drive 12 miles to the office, 12 miles home and make no other trips, park in your garage and have a charging station installed, it is very practical. If you are a city dweller and park in variable spots on the street, EVs are an… Read more »
theSandySaab
Member
4 years 3 months ago
Again, “Move Your Mind”… If you get 285 miles on a full charge with a model S in the 5 cycle EPA test, which includes HVAC hot and cold, lights etc, why do you talk about 12+12 miles??? It just does not make any sense… Maybe you ment 120+120 miles??? I am aware there are certain drawbacks with EVs and they are not suitable for all transportation needs nor everybody all the time, but there is no use putting your head in the sand and just omitting a zero for you own (incorrect) arguments. If EV is not your thing,… Read more »
theSandySaab
Member
4 years 3 months ago

And here is the related link from Musk & Co
http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/model-s-efficiency-and-range

theSandySaab
Member
4 years 3 months ago

…and before retiring for the night, while I do like my “new” TurboX (new around 43.000 USD), I would probably get something like…hmmm, maybe a tad more than 400km from a tank (around 500km) AND I have been waiting more than 30 minutes in lines at the gas station, just to fill up… So, imho the practical, real world differences are not that huge…

Kimberly
Member
4 years 3 months ago

No, I meant the statistically average 12-mile commute. If you get stuck in a massive traffic jam with HVAC and wipers running for an hour in rain or snow with traffic taking an hour and ten minutes to travel a under two miles (due to bad accident, construction, or general massholery) of that commute, will you make it home?

theSandySaab
Member
4 years 3 months ago
Well I guess you cannot consider every possible scenario in an EV, but that is not much different from an ICE propelled car either, I assume. Range anxiety in an EV is similar to that in an ICE vehicle – you may get stranded without energy/gas at one point or another. Today the e-infrastructure is lacking, agreed, but that will change quickly and easily (most gas station can add charging stations and possibly dual 3 phase 240 or 360 volt without much or any digging or concrete construction). These will then be geolocated in your GPS map and updated real… Read more »
theSandySaab
Member
4 years 3 months ago

“…it is not a car, it is a computer on wheels…”
For better or worse…
But not to get misunderstood, I DO enjoy my soon to be Vtuned twin scroll turbo Holden V6 in the TurboX but I feel it might be the last ICE I purchase and own, possibly…? I mean, one day there will be no gas for personal transportation, that is for sure, and the last oil & gasoline in the world is likely to go to the military, I believe…
So I say, the future is now!
An eSaab? Yes please, very much!

mattlach
Member
4 years 3 months ago

I wonder how much they can lean on Saabs existing 2010 ePower program…

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