Chinese Whispers

Sometimes you just wish people would speak more clearly. When John Nylén, the lawyer and spokesperson for Youngman in Sweden, talked to ttela about Youngman’s new bid on friday, he said that they had “ongoing contact” with the receivers. But just before that he had told SVT-Västnytt that they did not have contact recently and that the receivers did not react on the then latest bid. So what are we up to believe here? It feels a bit like that statement towards SVT was to put some pressure on the receivers. Not too successful I’d say. The expression toothless tiger springs to mind.

What really bugs me about Youngman is the way they act ever since. They were talking a lot, making promises on what they were going to do. But except some money in the pre-bankrupcy times they did not deliver too much. And exactly this seems to be their biggest burdon in this whole process. Much against the normal way Chinese carry out business, they were pretty loud and everywhere.

They have been trying to compensate this with money. Their bid is pretty high, most likely even the highes we have seen yet. Meanwhile it is even mentioned that they have the ok from the NDRC which will keep all competitors from China out of the way. But are their credit lines really big enough for the bid and for the funding of a proper development of new models? And are credit lines really the right way to finance the complete takeover of Saab? You are free to make your own judgement but credits have to be repaid and put a lot of pressure on Youngman to make as much money out of Saab as they can. Even the Chinese government wants its money back some day. Do we really want another scenario whereby a business plan is mostly based on short- and long term financiers, financiers that could pull the rug out from under people’s feet?

The timing of Youngman’s renewed bids is also something that caught my interest. They always show up when a deal seems complete. I said that before, one could get the feeling they try to annoy all competitors in this process enough to leave so they would be the ones who are left. I doubt that they would be willing to pay the amount they are offering now, most likely they would try to step in much lower as soon as they are the only ones left. If they really meant it that serious they could have called Bo Lundgren and bought Saab Parts to create some facts. NEVS do not want it anyway.

But there may be another reason for this. Taking in account that Youngman is not considered too trustworthy and that NEVS only want to buy some of the seven packages Saab is divided into right now the receivers would need another option to complete their mission truly successful. We all could read that Mahindra went passive as the receivers came up with the seven package idea. But they did not leave the process and you can be sure they at least left their phone number. Ever since Mahindra really wanted to buy Saab but not at any price and not at any conditions. So there may be another option for talks. Just a thought…

marcus
Member
4 years 3 months ago

youngman is also not my prefered company to buy saab, not at all.
i would much more like to see mahindra for that and their silence may be good i hope.
the problem is the actual appearing of nevs and their neboulos concept.
i see no future in manufacturing only elektro- and hybridcars.
so there is only youngman, which offer we know. and this is much better than nevs for the future – also nevs will act with credit and the money for the future production wasn´t really published, where this will come from.

saaburban
Member
4 years 3 months ago

-NEVS
-YM
-M&M
– ?????!
Who was the 4th bidder, and what happened to it… Has there been news abt it leaving the negotiations? Or has it been absorbed up into any of the top 2 bidders. M&M might have taken a share in NEVS without us knowing.
A collaboration from India-japan-china would have been Saabs dream team, opening up potential mass markets in all major parts of Asia.

hans h
Member
4 years 3 months ago

I do not like Younmans tactics, if that is what they are. They have always been too little and too late.
NEVS is at least something that exists now.

I still have hopes for Mahindra, though. As I see it, they have the best base for a future Saab.

adde
Member
4 years 3 months ago

Yes, but what happened to them? We need solid, confirmed information. “Laying low” doesnt tell a thing.

hans h
Member
4 years 3 months ago

I know, I know.
We haven’t heard a beep from them for a long time. Or at all…

Maitra
Member
4 years 3 months ago
First of all SU does a very good job but you need to understand the different business cultures before you just get angry – you get angry becaurse you do not understand who “Saab” is dealing with here. This is the way Chinese do business – it´s in their culture and if you cannot coope with their style don´t do business with China. It is a cultural thing and a normal way of adressing business deals in China. You say that YM are not serios but I say you and others at SU do not know enough about the chinese… Read more »
Tripod
Member
4 years 3 months ago
Well, let’s put it this way; it’s them doing business here, in northern Europe. I sometimes see comments about different business cultures, Middle East, Asia etc. and how it can be important to know about these differences if one wants to be successful. I think most, in this very much international forum, even can tell some stories about small differences between them and their neighbours; in fact, one can observe small differences in leadership and how negotiations are conducted between the Scandinavian countries. But as I said initially; it is them doing business here, not the other way around. And… Read more »
Maitra
Member
4 years 3 months ago
Moste feelings against YM is based roumers from what happen when Saab was trying to get a new funding partner that failed in the end so in that reflexion Saab was trying to make a deal with the Chinese not the other away arround my friend and they step in as an 2. solution when the first one failed and they are still here. That just confirms my starting comment. You are not as rational as you think you are:-D Saab started the game with YM in China not the other way arround and now you say that they are… Read more »
phermansson
Member
4 years 3 months ago

Hint, Saab stopped existing on the 19th of December 2011… after that it has been Youngman who has been trying to do business here in Sweden with the Swedish Authorities who are represented by the bankruptcy receivers (administrators), according to Swedish customs and Swedish rules, not the way you describe!

You are wrong!

eonp1986
Member
4 years 3 months ago

I have to tell you the truth. The Chinese from Zhejiang Province are not really businessman but more politician. You just trust wrong people. I’m sorry about it!

Maitra
Member
4 years 3 months ago

I do not trust anybody before the Deal is done:-D

Why are Zhejiang Province different from the rest of China?

Have you ever head of a large takeover where the Chinses just made a deal within 6 months – it just does not happen in that timeframe no matter where you come from in China…

phermansson
Member
4 years 3 months ago

Have you ever heard about the Swedish car maker volvo? that deal went VERY fast!

Belfast_Saab
Member
4 years 3 months ago

Yes but not comparable with Saab given GM veto, Ford were , to their universal credit, supportive of that sale while GM and by neglect, the Swed Gov have tried to kill Saab, so not a worthwhile comparison.

phermansson
Member
4 years 3 months ago

yea but what we were comparing with is how fast the chinese gov could operate… in the volvo deal they managed to give approval in just a few months… Youngman waited more than half a year and nothing happened…

cs
Member
4 years 3 months ago

WELL
It is easy to answer.

what has FORD done for Ceely ?
and what has GM done for SAAB ?

The difference is someone wants you alive ,and someone wants you die.

baas900i
Member
4 years 3 months ago

so all quiet again… bizarre sales process… the ndrc do not write blank checks…

adde
Member
4 years 3 months ago

Yes, but what happened to them? We need solid, confirmed information. “Laying low” doesnt tell a thing.

phermansson
Member
4 years 3 months ago

Usually the ones with the most to loose go to the press first… Whenever Youngman has been in trouble with the sale, their representatives have been talking to the media…

hughw
Member
4 years 3 months ago

None of us really know crap. We don’t know if M&M is still in the process. We don;t know if Youngman is a good guy or the boogieman. We don’t know much about NEVS (remember North Street Capitol). So as I’ve said before……sit back and watch the movie.

saabtec
Member
4 years 3 months ago

+1

Jeroen
Member
4 years 3 months ago

Actually, I do know a bit. Which is why I hope for all of Trollhättan that Youngman does not win this bidding war.

lundin
Member
4 years 3 months ago

Care to share Jeroen? I cant think of any special damage that info would create at this point?! The “need” to acquire saab to continue theory has been thrown before, anything else? They will move Saab from day 1 ? (which means they wont get the Saab brand name from Saab AB).

I am with you, i really the best for THN, but why wait, seems that NEVS is the only player left if Youngman really is this cruel.

Jeroen
Member
4 years 3 months ago
Well, I have shared some of my thoughts on Youngman before. I am not a fan and I seriously doubt the honesty of their public statements. I know am not alone in that opinion: for instance, Steven Wade and me have more or less the same knowledge about their antics and I believe we are in agreement when it comes to Youngman. Their “need” to acquire Saab is not just a theory, but a notion based on certain knowledge about their buesiness structure that I acquired during my period at Saab. I am not going to elaborate on that too… Read more »
lundin
Member
4 years 3 months ago

Thanks for your insight and comments Jeroen, very valuable indeed.
Yeah,i agree, lets hope we get a “real” Saab masterplan out of this sale.

adde
Member
4 years 3 months ago

Very appreciated, Jeroen. My respects to you!
More ppl shareing any kind info instead acting “big shots who know something but are not allowed(!) to reveal anything/talk about it”. What kind of crap is that? Not allowed by whom? What a joke.
As TimR pointed out Saab stopped existing on 19th of December 2011. No reason to be quite anymore. It only creates frustration when ppl try to create illusion they possess info like they were members of Saab management prior to bakruptcy.
Please, speak up or skip “im not allowed/i cant talk about that”. Its just embarassing.

Mark
Member
4 years 3 months ago

I am and have been very sceptical about NEVS intentions, do you any info on their plans?

Sometimes it is better to go with the devil you know, what can you say about NEVS that would give us some confidence they will develop the SAAB brand and produce cars in Trollhättan?

Jeroen
Member
4 years 3 months ago

I don’t know anything about NEVS first-hand. Basically, ever since December 19, I am most of the time relying on the same info as you guys 🙂 I can of course give a helicopter view assessment of their ideas based on what I’ve read in media, but I am not sure if that would mean anything.

TonymacUK
Member
4 years 3 months ago

Till, you mention credit lines, but where do Venture Capitalists obtain funds?

Ralph
Member
4 years 3 months ago

Did the entire Mahindra delegation already leave Sweden/Trollhättan?

Belfast_Saab
Member
4 years 3 months ago

+1

Galway-Saab
Member
4 years 3 months ago

+1

adde
Member
4 years 3 months ago
If NEVS as much as mention something involving taxpayers money, there will be riots in Sweden. I dont see how they will be able to survive as company according to their business plan without swegov coming to their aid. They (or any other EV manufacturer for that matter) can forget me as customer of e-cars as long following isnt fixed: 1. Charging time must be equaly long as it takes to fill petrol in a car of same size. 2. Driving distance must be equaly long to driving distance of petrol car of same size. 3. Infrastructure must exist, at… Read more »
Jeroen
Member
4 years 3 months ago

So if I read your correctly, a hybrid would work for you? After all, a hybrid driveline allows you to drive as long as you want on conventional fuels, but also offers you the option to lower your emissions by switching to electric or electric+fuel. And from what I have read about them, it seems like NEVS is not just 100 percent focused on EVs, but is planning to develop hybrids as well.

And your employment comment is simply not realistic. A new Saab is always going to be leaner than the company that went bankrupt on December 19.

adde
Member
4 years 3 months ago

Yes, hybrid as you describe it is something i could easily live with, as long as it doesnt include any form of “plug in to charge”.

Employment part is very important for many in Trollhättan, and given what i read its still about 1300-1500 former employees out there. For each day that goes they care less and less what will be manufactured and more and more how many of them will be re-employed by future owner. Love towards Saab alone cant feed them and their kids and pay their bills.

Jeroen
Member
4 years 3 months ago
Sure, many of my former colleagues live in Trollhättan and for the town it is very important that as many as possible have the possibility to be re-employed by a new Saab. I am just saying that full re-employment for all currently unemployed former Saab workers will probably not be possible. Especially not in the early phases of the company, as a production restart will take some time. Plug-in to charge should not be a problem if you’re parking it in your car bay at night, should it? If you don’t have time to charge it, there is always your… Read more »
adde
Member
4 years 3 months ago

Dont have possibility to plug in my car to recharge over the nigh. Solution where battery is charged while i drive “traditionaly” similar to charging traditional car batery is something for me.
If there is no such solution, then even hybrids are nothing for me, for time being.

Jeff
Member
4 years 3 months ago

You park on the street I’m assuming? Just out of curiousity, what model year Saab are you driving?

artizangbr
Member
4 years 3 months ago
Unless the buyer is a well financed, cash rich company, all will be be using investors for financing. So from that point it is how strong the parent is and their businesses. Youngman is an established company in China with ties in bus, truck manufacture and some cars at the low to budget range so saab has a value. NEVS is a new comapny set up JUST to purchase Saab. 49% owned by a venture capital company. 51% owned by a what appears to be a chinese national company but registered in British Virgin Islands. This last bit is worrying… Read more »
eonp1986
Member
4 years 3 months ago

But in China only politician can do business. Please don’t forget about it! And all YM’s technique are bought from Germany. They never have their own. How can you believe that they can save SAAB? Only by money?

artizangbr
Member
4 years 3 months ago

Because Saab has that technology already and just need the finance to carry out the development plan. Instead of just buying the tech, with Saab they will be buying the creators of the tech which is a huge benefit for both Saab and Youngman.

Maitra
Member
4 years 3 months ago
I agree with Artizang… but one correcting is needed that Saab was in fact alreday devided into pieces and therefor very hard for the receivers to hande like one. With different owners or at least we could call it different companies owning stakes in Saab it was just not up to the receivers to slam it all togeather. The receivers had to create a sales prospect when the byers need to bid for the pieces of Saab. That is why the SveGov can say that they will not sell Saab Parts at any price. SveGov are in change of the… Read more »
cs
Member
4 years 3 months ago
Well This “funny” thing comes again. Let´s check these topics in SU . CHINESES WHISPERS VS INDIAN ANGEL GOODBYE YOUNGMAN GOODBYE AGAIN So i really want to know what is the PURPOSE of this type of post ??? To provoke a argument against China? Against Chinese companies??? To evoke some racism that show how they don´t like anything of China??? You guys don´t know YM is the only company shows and reveal all the detail of his payment, business plan and goodwill to SAAB to the public. What did the other parties do? Silent ,quiet , and nothing else. To… Read more »
hans h
Member
4 years 3 months ago

As I see it, the scepticism against Youngman has NOTHING to do with them being chinese. But it has ALL to do with their strange behaviour regarding money; Too little and/or too late.

cs
Member
4 years 3 months ago

So why SU haven´t any sceptcism against the other parties, even a word?
Becasue they are all silent and without any information released? Is this a reasonable activity that could calm down the anxiety of public?
If that was true , well i think all the politician will appreciate it and learn from this.
They might say THANK YOU!

saabman
Member
4 years 3 months ago
I think there’s been lots of skepticism raised against some of the other parties. The comments about NEVS are not exactly glowing. If you go back several months there were loads of complaints regarding Victor Muller and his various attempts to shore up Saab’s funding, especially from the American venture capital firm North Street Capital. The complaints about Swedish government minister Maud Olofsson and her handling of the Saab affair were stinging, as were the comments about Saab’s administrator Guy Lofalk. Of course, no one took more of a beating than General Motors for its role in creating today’s state… Read more »
cs
Member
4 years 3 months ago

SAABMAN thank you for your reply.

What i exactly mean is that in SU there are not so many arguments and sceptisms against the other bidders.
Mahindra none
BMW none
Brightwell None

That is ture that there are lots of arguments against the roles in this game in SU (GM, VM, SweGov etc..)

But none of them have face to and rised the lever of scepticism and untrust so high as YOUNGMAN.

That is what i really don´t like its unfairness because it lacks of reasonable convince rather than personal sensation.

cs
Member
4 years 3 months ago

I don’t want to rise the discussion to a racism lever.
BUT please check these topics here in SU.

They just put the nationality in these topics, CHINESE … INDIAN…
So which information do the authors really want to tranfer to the readers?

phermansson
Member
4 years 3 months ago
We have nothing against people from different parts of the world but the facts are pretty clear. Youngman made promises time and time again and did not deliver on them. Its a matter of trust… we simply do not trust Youngman to do what they say that they will do. A big reason for this are the things happening in China, the consolidation of the auto-industry. The fact that Mr Pang has bought a lot of land cheaply from the government in order to build car factories, the fact that all the money invested into Saab by Youngman are regional-government… Read more »
cs
Member
4 years 3 months ago
First Tell me which facts that YM damage their promise . Second I don’t think the way of get the funding from regional government was wrong. Actully that is a popular way of Chinese company finance itself in China. But you get to know ,financing from the Government doesn’t really means that the company would be controlled by the government.They (Government )have their own purpose : boost the local economy,help small company to rise the money, join the great profit after its investment and etc.. Tell me what is wrong here Third YONGMAN is a car/bus manufacture, is there any… Read more »
Belfast_Saab
Member
4 years 3 months ago

+1,seems fair to put the other side…

phermansson
Member
4 years 3 months ago
1. There are at least 4 instances in the 6 months where Youngman signed contracts and memorandum of understandings MOU’s where they promised to pay certain money to Saab, either not the full sum or nothing arrived. If you want to know more about it, read the history here at SaabsUnited, it is all very well documented. You can also find press-releases from Saab covering that during Saab’s last 6 months. Youngman was never a preferred partner for Saab, but it was the only partner that would work with Saab because Saab would have died before the others would have… Read more »
cs
Member
4 years 3 months ago

your main point is the funding issue.

Yes we are in EUROPE.

Would you please tell how could Ceely financed its money from Chinese Government when it bought VOVLVO, and it is still approved by Europe law.

Thank you!

cs
Member
4 years 3 months ago

Your commends are full of GUESS. THOUGHT without logical evidence just like someone else.
I am sorry for that!

phermansson
Member
4 years 3 months ago

This just shows how ignorant and stupid your comment is…

Volvo made a deal with FORD

Youngman is trying to make a deal with the GOVERNMENT!

BIG DIFFERENCE!

I promise you buddy, we are not guessing, we’ve got better sources than you can ever imagine and thats what pisses you off… I’d urge you to back down before you make a bigger fool out of yourself than you already are…

EuroDriver
Member
4 years 3 months ago

People are worried about Saab turning “Chinese.” And thats a utter blatant lie, Saabs will be made/engineered in Sweden, by Swedes, and funded by the Chinese. Thats all, Saab will not become “oriental” as some people fear.

JasonPowell
Member
4 years 3 months ago
Cs, I wouldn’t normally respond to comments like yours, but to say you don’t want to raise the racism topic is actually bringing it up and should not be tolerated. You talk of SU writing about Indian and Chinese companies, I don’t get your complaint, they are Chinese and Indian companies. Not to mention that a lot of people like the said Indian company a lot. When people don’t like or are skeptical of your favorite company, it is not right to bring up stuff like racism. If you check far enough back in SU posts, you will see that… Read more »
cs
Member
4 years 3 months ago

I am sorry if i raise the issue of racism.
Please stop talking anything about this.

Sincerely you don´t know and understand me.
YOUNGMAN IS NOT my favorite bidder either.

What i want to state here is that
Please keep fair .
Fair is one core thing for a forum.

Any inappropriate commends with too much personal bias and prejugdements really hurts somebody who loves SAAB.

cs
Member
4 years 3 months ago

Anyboday is free to say what he/she thinks

If YOUNGMAN ´s behavior had a negative effect in your mind in some cases.

Would you guys please talk with this in one more gentle way, not like today´s topic ,with such personal bias ,aggressive without solid convince.

Please what i need is FAIR!

Jeff
Member
4 years 3 months ago

Fair means treating a person or party with the respect their actions deserve. In Youngman’s case, fair means distrust. It’s pretty simple, CS.

cs
Member
4 years 3 months ago

Jeff your commend is so weak.

phermansson
Member
4 years 3 months ago

You have no clue what kind of sources we have…

CS, back down, you have no clue 😉

rune
Member
4 years 3 months ago

Personally I like Mahindra & Mahindra because I still harbor a hope (albeit a very unrealistic one at this point) that GM would let them pick up the production of the 9-5 (everything has a price tag…).

GM has made it all to clear that GM already have a partner in China that they don’t dare to interfere with.

That is a big point in favor of M&M vs YM (or any company from China) in my book.

Many here cheered for a Chinese partnership over a year ago. Lots of water has passed under the bridge since then.

Mark
Member
4 years 3 months ago

I think most of us would prefer M&M but is that really going to be possible?

wfg
Member
4 years 3 months ago
I tend to agree with cs here. I think we must not forget that beyond all the putative buyers, Youngman was the only one that put money to save the Saab for bankruptcy. Ok, they failed, but at least they tried and, at least I don’t know, whether Saab could have been saved anyway at that particular time. Accordingly, I think the critics on them now are a bit too harsh for me. In my humbling opinion what is left is that many of us are skeptical on the ONLY one company that risked something to save Saab. They were… Read more »
LG Aero
Member
4 years 3 months ago

There does seem to be a anti Youngman bent on this site. But please remember it was Youngman who could have bought Saab as an ongoing, non-bankrupt company. And it was when Youngman could or would not come forward with the money the Saab was forced to declare bankruptcy.

None of the other potential buyers were in that posistion so it is natural to be skeptical of Youngman

wfg
Member
4 years 3 months ago
Yes, I agree, but dont you think they just realized (hoped) to get Saab cheaper after bankcrupcy? I guess, that was a simple calculation, every successful business man or women would have done. I think everyone in the field knew on Saab’s troubles, not only Youngman. But only Youngman at least tried to act….sure they made mistakes, as obviously everyone engaged in this drama also. And the one been too sceptical against Youngman, please consider Volvo doing great under a Chinese ownership… (and again, YM was/is not my favorite but I want that we stay fair here). P.S. Please stop… Read more »
artizangbr
Member
4 years 3 months ago

Another thing is youngman have probably seen alot more of phoenix than any other bidder, as they have been involved with Saab for a while, this may have prompted them to bid so much.
Yes Till I do worry also they may be bidding too high and beyond their comfort zone, but they have really been forced into it to combat the political forces at work here.
Remember to get the financing needed they have had to convince some very nervous bankers, so their business plan must have looked positive.

spacy
Guest
4 years 3 months ago

Re; ”seen alot more of phoenix than any other bidder”.

They also rightly own a part of it’s future use…..

Kyle Merrihew
Member
4 years 3 months ago

I am a bit confused….I have read many articles that state NEVS has OFFICIALLY bought saab….is this true or could it still go the other way?

belgian_roadster from Eupen, DG
Member

…HERE WE GO AGAIN.
Please step in for the next roller coaster tour 🙁

golfhunter
Member
4 years 3 months ago

I think that if Youngman was late in the past, sometimes, for sending money and quite prudent , it’s certainly because they didn’t want to loose too much money like Pang Da did.
Why should they give millions to a company they’re not sure they will own ?

hans h
Member
4 years 3 months ago

Well, NOT giving money is a sure way to make certain that wou will NOT own it.
And being too late is cutting it a little too close.

leriksso
Member
4 years 3 months ago
I speculate no more, soon I end to hope. But for me the YM the only way to see a SAAB again. M & M seems to be gone and NEVS are just looking for technology for their own research …. not to build any cars. Not the whole package (Parts). Tired of faith, hope, and these shifts each day between joy and despair. SO…Sell to the best bid so we can get on with whatever there to be. Just hope I can find a new SAAB next time I replace the car. However, I have no intention of buying… Read more »
saabyurk
Member
4 years 3 months ago
I respect and appreciate SU and the efforts of its writers, but this article hits a bit below the belt. The suggestion that YM could have bought Saab Parts to show they were serious sounds a bit disingenuous. They might as well hand Saab to NEVS on a silver platter. That would eliminate the major stumbling block for the administrators to approve NEVS by getting the Saab Parts issue out of the way. I have my doubts about YM (and NEVS and Mahindra), but YM is the only company that has put high risk money on the line, and not… Read more »
saabserb
Member
4 years 3 months ago

+1. Agree completely. Totally childish argument!
The whole text would have been OK as a comment, but for a post here I expect much more serious approach!

zippy
Member
4 years 3 months ago

I agree with everything till72 says, Youngman are just trying to drag out this process for long enough to p–s off the other bidders in the hope they will walm away. Youngman has had more than a few kicks at the can, its time to tell them to take a hike!!!!

saabserb
Member
4 years 3 months ago

I believe that the lection nr. 1 for the people aspiring to become bankruptcy administrators is to recognize this behavior and to cut it at once!
Don’t you people with this, pretty relevant theory, think for a moment that the administrators are not taking this into the account.

GerritN
Member
4 years 3 months ago
The administrators are in charge. If they allow a certain tactic of a certain bidder then that is their choice. Everyone should have understood by now that there are no bidders out there breaking down the Saab gates to buy Saab for a lot of money. The Saab brand is tainted, Saab hasn’t really proven beyond a doubt to be a solid investment. Any bidder will try and minimize the financial risk, the best way of doing this right now is to keep the bid as low as possible. If that takes ‘dirty’ tactic then it takes ‘dirty’ tactics. Just… Read more »
saabdog
Member
4 years 3 months ago

Yeah, what he (GerritN) said!

hilmar
Member
4 years 3 months ago

Just my thoughts. Too many useless words here, it only causes misunderstanding. Still a few days and we will see the result. I am glad if someone has the courage to produce Saab cars in Sweden again. Not an easy issue.

Belfast_Saab
Member
4 years 3 months ago

+1 again

OliverH
Member
4 years 3 months ago

If YM plays a game than the administrators have to control the game and don’t watch the game: Set time lines, show how they see the balance of pay open depts, get the THN area a big company for the future and so on. Don’t try to get 105% feel in love with 97%. Otherwise no one is left in th end.

Michael
Member
4 years 3 months ago

Please VOLKSWAGEN step into the process, NOW!!! SAAB is the missing Brand in the Portfolio and a perfect enhancement for the North American market. Scania is already owned by VW, so the good old Logo could come back. AND SAAB is not much more expensive than Ducati. On the way to the biggest Car manufacturer in the world YOU need SAAB!!!

(hope they hear me)

zippy
Member
4 years 3 months ago

They have Audi, my friend.

OliverH
Member
4 years 3 months ago

Audi? We’ve a A3 in family (my wifes car). Can’t imagine the cult around Audi – there’s no magic. Like to drive the 95 and hate to drive the other car.

Rolf Hägg
Guest
4 years 3 months ago

Not so. I’m an old Saab guy who bought a new one after an Audi A4.

After driving both, the A4 is nicer in most driving aspects over the new 9-3.

xelav
Member
4 years 3 months ago

Michael , please send your post to the VAG group! Splendid idea.

Martin T16s
Member
4 years 3 months ago

And let us not forget that the neccessary funding had actually been secured by Youngman and was about to be transfered on a Friday, then at that eleventh hour VM received that email from GM saying under no circumstances would they ever give access to the licences. So to be fair to Youngman, VM immediately emailed them to break that news leaving YM no alternative but to withdraw leaving VM to call the bankruptcy.

saaburban
Member
4 years 3 months ago
Although swedish, I have lived most my adult life in asia, working with both chinese and indian clients, having friends and family from both backgrounds. This is my own very personal observation; – India inherited the British colonial rule-of-law and legal system, making it very easy to do business there. – China is a very difficult country to do business, as there is much government interveniance in business, and very difficult not to get burned by different business deals. Sometime a contract can be worth nothing. From a product and design development background, I find that projects for Indian clients… Read more »
cs
Member
4 years 3 months ago

+1,good commends

Turbo_Charged
Member
4 years 3 months ago

The Rover group in the UK was sold to a Business Consortium (like NEVS) without an actual manufacturer behind them – see what happened?

ivo 71
Member
4 years 3 months ago

Before it was sold to that consortium, it was sold to a proper manufacturer: BMW. Remember what happened?

Ivo

TonymacUK
Member
4 years 3 months ago

The problems with Rover centred on the Longbridge factory – Boy, the tales I can tell about that place in the seventies!

Turbo_Charged
Member
4 years 3 months ago

Well Leyland was asset stripped – Jaguar, Land Rover and Mini (all backed by car manufacturers) are doing excellently.

SaabKen
Member
4 years 3 months ago
SAIC couldn’t get the rights to the Rover name from BMW, so after buying out Rover they mutated the name to Roewe: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roewe Which I always thought was just “Rover” with a Chinese accent 😀 Either way, it’s probably the “wrong way”: [Wiki]: “The name “Roewe” originates from SAIC’s failure to acquire the Rover marque from BMW in 2005,[4] which BMW instead sold to Ford (and which was later sold by Ford to its current owner, Tata Motors, as part of the 2008 sale of Jaguar Land Rover). Composed of the Chinese characters Róng and wēi that together roughly mean… Read more »
xelav
Member
4 years 3 months ago

Make Saab cars, not war! Can we please leave it here and stop about not accepting one another’s opinion . That’s a forum al about, giving your opinion and reading the ones of others. Accusing of racism or other politics : NOT here. Correct me if I’m wrong.

Christof Rytz
Member
4 years 3 months ago

NEVS, YM, M&M, ?????
I do not like this never ending story and that the admins are unable to close a bid. I do not think that real Saab fans will wait for month or years until there will come some desition or not (and Saab will stay in automotive heaven).
Hope for a solution in June 2012.

xelav
Member
4 years 3 months ago

Jeff, talking to me? 2006, and I’m parking on my own driveway .

Jeff
Member
4 years 3 months ago

Cool, just curious. Doing a little research. No access to an outlet in your house with an extension cord then?

xelav
Member
4 years 3 months ago

O, yes. You are welcome with your electric nevs. While watching football we can charge your car! For me, in most of the days that I’m using my car, it could easily also be an full- electric car. But I’m not ready for it yet, and the cars aren’t either.

StefanH STHLM
Member
4 years 3 months ago

There can never be a future with ONLY full-electric, plug-in cars.
For us who live in apartments and park our cars in the street theres no possibility to plug-in.
There must at least be a hybrid solution available.

hughw
Member
4 years 3 months ago
I agree that presently full electric cars are not the solution for anything but some limited and special needs. But I don’t think you can say that there will NEVER be a future. We’re living in a present enviorment with a vast carbon-fuel infrastructure that has been created over the years. There is no reason to think that IF electric was the way to go, that an infrastructure to support couldn’t also be created with street plug-in stations in all locations. Another creative solution that I heard Renault was exploring was Fluence Z.E with a battery that could be swapped… Read more »
SaabLife
Member
4 years 3 months ago

Speaking of electric cars. Here’s a recent article about the fledgling electric car companies currently out in the markets.

http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2012/autos/1206/gallery.electric-cars-troubles.fortune/

TurboLover
Member
4 years 3 months ago
Coke is it
Member
4 years 3 months ago
We can not compare Youngman’s effort to buy Saab before the bankruptcy with now. Before they were to invest millions of € without getting nearly as big share of the company as they should have had, instead V Muller used them to finance the daily operation with Spyker being the major owner. The guaranties YM got was some parts of the Phoenix platform and as TimR wrote a couple of weeks ago those guaranties are useless… can you blame YM to not invest more money if they felt screwed over by VM/Spyker/Saab? My preferred owner has been BMW but that… Read more »
Ronnie_Rad
Member
4 years 3 months ago
Why in gods name are we arguing???? Saab doesn’t even DESERVE to be saved if its fans act this way. Saabista have some nerve to sit here and bad mouth ANY of the bidders when beggars are in NO position to choose! Put yourself in Youngman’s shoes for a moment. If you just met an associate that lived across town from you, would you give them money every month to pay their bills if they were struggling? None of the other bidders gave a quarter to help saab, let alone millions upon millions of Euro…all to have its fans trashing… Read more »
adde
Member
4 years 3 months ago
And again on TTELA, just recently somewhere between 2300-0000 local time. “June 11 2012 Nevs may have won the Saab battle Stockholm / TT There seems to be electric car Consortium National Electric Vehicle Sweden (Nevs) who purchase Saab Automobile in bankruptcy. A Chinese source claims to Dagens Industri, which TTELA reported last week, that Nevs won the deal and that the contract is soon to be signed. According to the newspaper’s source the funding was crucial. The competitor Youngman made ​​a new offer last Friday, but their funding is dependent on the Chinese authorities NDRC – something that can… Read more »
Baver
Member
4 years 3 months ago

Of course, just a week or so ago, Indian media “sources” reported in TTELA that Mahindra had won. So, really, are we any closer?

spacy
Guest
4 years 3 months ago

.
……….. ” may ”……………

adde
Member
4 years 3 months ago

I think its strange due to date on the article and fact that first comment on same article was made June 11 2012 at 2329.
Im not used to news coming on TTELA so late at night. They usualy update news next day, but who knows…

Niklas G
Member
4 years 3 months ago

Well, let’s wait and see. Not clear from that ttela article what kind of source that Chinese source has. Is it real news or is it just ttela citing di.se citing a “Chinese source” who is just rephrasing old “news” from Swedish media?

adde
Member
4 years 3 months ago

Hope some more info comes tomorrow (or today, in Sweden) during the day.

OddJob
Member
4 years 3 months ago
Can’t really see why everybody is so negative about YM? maybe it’s because they are the only ones we know someting about? The MasterPlan for all Chinese car companies from the Chinese govt is that 10 of them will be selected to conquer the world. So it’s a struggle for YM to get there, they are by no means into that party. Their tool to get there is to aquire Saab. They need in-house automotive excellence and knowledge which they don’t have at the moment. Their aim in the business is not to aquire the tools and bring it home… Read more »
TonymacUK
Member
4 years 3 months ago

With the Swedish Govt backing them, NEVS was always a done deal.

rich
Member
4 years 3 months ago

What are we all so unsure about. Regardless of who buys Saab it will not still be the Saab we have all come to love. The buyer will not care about all the loyal fans, they won’t give us warranties to build our trust, they won’t ask us for our input and they most deffiantly won’t care about where we want them built. We know this, so we should all just sit back and wait and see what happens.

OddJob
Member
4 years 3 months ago

Who is the mysterious fourth bidder? Time to show up.

Katsura
Member
4 years 3 months ago
It sure makes a lot of sense for YM to SINK $700M into a broken car brand, just to get their hands on a still work in progress platform. Come off your high horses. (Referring to YM ONLY wants the technology and will move manufacturing to China). With 700M they could acquire competing platforms from other sources – what makes you think Phoenix is THAT special as to warrant YM to put that that much effort into acquiring it? The way I see it, they are in this for the long run. When VM came up with all the smoke… Read more »
davidgmills
Member
4 years 3 months ago
But did they come up with the money? That has always been Youngman’s problem. Whenever it came time to pay what needed to be paid, they didn’t bring the cashier’s check for all that was promised or all that they claimed they would bring. If Youngman puts $700 million up for Saab and that money is here in short order, I will be glad to get on Youngman’s side. It is the money that convinces me. More than anything Saab needs money and they needed it six months ago. Mahindra is the only one of the bidders who has lots… Read more »
Baver
Member
4 years 3 months ago

There was a post on here not long ago by a member who stated why Mahindra would only bid so much. It dealt with their cost of borrowing in India vs. others possibly getting help from governments in the case of NEVS and perhaps, even Youngman. I did hear on CNBC this morning that India’s interest rates were driven higher to combat inflation over the past year, so there may have been some truth to that.

Katsura
Member
4 years 3 months ago

Compared to Youngman, Victor Muller is the real conman.

My last comment on this has already been deleted, let’s see if this one will disappear too.

Mark
Member
4 years 3 months ago

I’m not totally comfortable with Youngman, but I’m even more uncomfortable with NEVS.
It seems to me that ‘Saab’ is just a conveniently available brand to attach to it’s venture and NEVS
cares little about Saab’s history and heritage. The fact that it doesn’t want Saab Parts only confirms this,
and then there are reports that it can’t afford Saab Parts anyway. That being the case, how much money
has it got to spend on new Saab cars?

I wish Mahindra & Mahindra would finally play it’s hand.

100%Saab
Member
4 years 3 months ago

Still waiting. All this does keep me in a holding pattern.

EuroDriver
Member
4 years 3 months ago

I rather have Youngman get the ticket, if its between them and NEVS. But if M&M are still in the picture then I’m all for them. I’m honestly not ready to give up Petrol Saabs, nothing will change my mind about that. EV tech is not ready for widespread mainstream market penetration, and Saab would die if its sole product was just EVs. Saab didn’t have a product issue, it had a money issue, and thats what the receivers have to remember. Who is the most fit to fund and engineer the future of Saab? That is what really matters.

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