Youngman and the Phoenix

Among others, ttela.se reported yesterday that Youngman still claim to be owners of the Phoenix platform. As far as we know nothing has changed since we reported on this issue last time. What Youngman got are non exclusive rights to use the platform.

For sure Youngman has invested a lot of time and money in their Saab adventure but through various reasons failed to complete a deal. So I feel they are now trying to get something back which, as it looks now, will not be easy.

NEVS’ spokesman Michael Ostlund is quite clear in stating that the Phoenix platform and technology is part of their purchase. And I’d say that they should know pretty well what they bought.

xelav
Member
4 years 2 months ago

It’s very understandable that they’re trying to get acces to the platform , or getting (a part of) their money back. After all they were the ones who pumped a lot of money in Saab back then. Could be an interesting case for some lawyers .

m!ko
Member
4 years 2 months ago

Lawyers? Perhaps Guy Lofalk will handle it?

m!ko
Member
4 years 2 months ago

I’m joking, of course 🙂

Romac
Member
4 years 2 months ago

Correction: You hope you are joking! 😉

StefanH STHLM
Member
4 years 2 months ago

Nothing odd about this really as I see it.
NEVS bought the Phoenix platform.
YM has paid for the rights to use it under license.
Or?

phermansson
Member
4 years 2 months ago

Nope, YM paid to get a peak at what it would look like when finished… YM does not own any rights to it… what they got was basically a rough description of how it works but written in a language that only Saabs engineers can understand, thats why they are recruiting right now…

StefanH STHLM
Member
4 years 2 months ago

OK
That clears thing out.

Troels, Denmark
Member
4 years 2 months ago

Who is recruiting? Youngman or NEVS ? 😉

Troels, Denmark
Member
4 years 2 months ago

And as interesting: WHO are they recruiting ??

tauentzien
Member
4 years 2 months ago

As it seems: Both!

lmg
Member
4 years 2 months ago

Youngman allegedly

scand
Member
4 years 2 months ago

A muller created total mess. This is bound to get tied up in litigation for years, by which time if this platform ever sees the light of day ( which I doubt), then it will be out of date anyway.

Coke is it
Member
4 years 2 months ago

I’m not surprised.

The administrators wanted to kill Saab. Just to get the chance to be administrators one more time when Nevs goes bankrupt in one year…

SaabLife
Member
4 years 2 months ago

Well you have to give them credit for wanting to ensure themselves job security.

I’m willing to be that either NWC (National Windmill Cars) or NRC (National Rubberband Cars) will be the winners in next years bankruptcy process..

Romac
Member
4 years 2 months ago

And the sale will go like clockwork again?

i.e. we’ll all get wound up and run down! 😀

TonymacUK
Member
4 years 2 months ago

Ah! Humour, so refreshing.

leriksso
Member
4 years 2 months ago

+1

leriksso
Member
4 years 2 months ago

+10

SaabLife
Member
4 years 2 months ago

Hmm…Well it’s a good thing politics weren’t involved in any of this. Imagine if the Swedish Government had the nerve to get involved with this after doing nothing prior to the bankruptcy.

Well I’m sure the receivers got the most money they could possibly get from the Saab bankruptcy and remained unbiased to any party. In my opinion the choice was made on viability in the current market, pure experience of the buyer, and financial likelihood of success.

/Sarcasm

Skipper
Member
4 years 2 months ago

What a total shambles this all is! The whole thing just goes from bad to worse!

MeanSabean
Member
4 years 2 months ago

Youngman had all the time in the world to complete the purchase of Saab when VM was in need, but they played hardball and lost! YOU SNOOZE YOU LOSE!!!!

ryanonsrc
Member
4 years 2 months ago

+1 bingo!

It really doesn’t get any more complicated than that. This is the point where Youngman just needs to be a good sport and concede defeat. They weren’t exactly charitable to Saab in their time of dire need, so they shouldn’t expect any charity in return.

RS
Member
4 years 2 months ago

But if YM is now hiring former Saab engineers to make sense of the platform won’t that make the situation even more divided and difficult if NEVS suddenly sees the light and wants to build biopower hybrids with e-AAM… sigh.
How about a collaboration between the companies if this is the case? (trying to stay as positive as I possibly can)

hans h
Member
4 years 2 months ago

Exactly my point.

saabserb
Member
4 years 2 months ago
Why do I have feeling that this circus is not over yet? NEVS is claming that they own PhoeniX. But the admininstrators say the god old “no comment”. Youngman’s representative also claims that Youngman owns Phoenix. True the rights are non-exclusive, but this in my world means that Youngman can also use Phoenix together with NEVS. Or am I stupid? Also an Gothenburg Posten article tells us that Youngman is planning for further development of Phoenix. Remember the finsl contract is not ready yet. This was only MOU done with NEVS. Everything can happen during the summer. And as I… Read more »
PoL
Member
4 years 2 months ago
Right on the spot! I have the same feeling that you have and it is very strange that the administrators choose NEVS because we all somewhere know that NEVS did not have the best deal for Saab and made a lucky shot. They now admit that they had a low offer for saab and where supprised that they where choosen for the deal. The administrators didn´t do what they where supposed to do, they did a bad job taking care of saab. There is something strange with this NEVS deal, it does´t smell well. NEVS is not the future for… Read more »
TonymacUK
Member
4 years 2 months ago

My feelings also. The administrators have also done a bad job of looking after the creditors. too!

spacy
Guest
4 years 2 months ago

And, I think it will be the creditors, that attempt to block the deal.
It is after all them, that will be the biggest loosers.

Bullnose
Member
4 years 2 months ago

So Phoenix platform could yet appear as the basis of two products by different manufacturers.
No different from Saab deals of the past like Fiat and Lancia.
The difference this time is that Saab AB will determine which one, if any, carries the Saab badge.
(Whoever builds in Sweden AND pays Saab AB a hefty premium for the licence……. ?)

zippy
Member
4 years 2 months ago

YM spent far too much time ‘dilly-dallying’ about with Saab and when push came to shove they didnt have the guts (or cash) to proceed with the deal.

mnztr
Member
4 years 2 months ago

No sympathy for them. They acted like thugs and got nothing for their money in the end.

Keith
Member
4 years 2 months ago

Not sure there is much to argue over. Phoenix isn’t close to finished. You can’t build a car from it anytime soon, if ever.

Mark
Member
4 years 2 months ago

I thought Phoenix development was quite advanced as there was some 9-3SS ‘mules’ running around a while back with Phoenix underpinnings.

nichell
Guest
4 years 2 months ago

I’ll believe everything, when I see it.

spacy
Guest
4 years 2 months ago
As I remember, VM, made a Co’, based in the Netherlands that sold the rights to YM as part of the deal. So I assume either VM’s Co’ then gave YM’s money to Saab or did not. Was this one of the ‘late deals’ by VM that the administrators suggested should be ” *. There has been no talk as to what happened to some of those deals, although the factory sale, was put squarely in that ball park [unwound]. Of course that sale has now been resolved by NEVs, who bought that share back as part of their deal.… Read more »
zippy
Member
4 years 2 months ago

Why did YM back out of the process if they were in fact serious? Just a thought.

RS
Member
4 years 2 months ago

It must have been the GM license thingy. Had they bough the company before bankruptcy they’d now owe GM 326 million dollars or billions of SEK (thanks to the preferred shares) BUT no right to build GM platform cars…

Mark
Member
4 years 2 months ago

I think China’s NRDC was giving Youngman huge headaches right up to the end when all seemed to be approved and Youngman made it’s final last minute offer.

jond
Member
4 years 2 months ago
Had YM closed a deal prior to the bankruptcy then they would have had to take on all the accumulated debt (remember that?). They would also have had to agree to SWAN remaining a significant ownership interest. IMHO there was no chance that anyone would have done that, which is why there were no other expressions of interest before the bankruptcy. In regard to Phoenix, it is quite possible that YM were misled into thinking that they had the real deal. Why on earth would they have paid a significant sum of money for it if they thought that all… Read more »
troy
Member
4 years 2 months ago

You never would have that Saab would be in such a mess but you also wouldn’t have thought that Saab would be so heavily fought after this far down the road .

Tim, Can we please see pictures of the next 9-3 since it is not making it to production?

phermansson
Member
4 years 2 months ago

We have some photos and illustrations but I have promised mr Casteriota not to share them with anyone since he still has a lot of money invested in the design. They did after all spend more than 10 months working on the project without ever being paid =(

I have been told that NEVS might want to use the design language…

zippy
Member
4 years 2 months ago

is it a great looking car?

MK
Member
4 years 2 months ago

If it is the same as the model we employed could see it looks really delicious. 🙂

phermansson
Member
4 years 2 months ago

For me it has taken a lot of time to get used to the design, but I have to say that it grows on me, in the beginning I was very skeptical, but I’ve felt that way about almost every new Saab ever launched and I’ve come to love them all so that is a good sign =P

Ronnie_Rad
Member
4 years 2 months ago

Do you think the design would “sell itself” (assuming its decent powertrains, fit and finish, etc)?

Eric
Member
4 years 2 months ago

Youngman is being a whiny sore loser.
They lost & are trying to stir up trouble(again?)!
They should go home & lick their wounds & move on.
Business ventures are a risk & sometimes you lose the money you put into the venture.
Youngman needs to grow up!

SaabLife
Member
4 years 2 months ago

In their defense….look who they lost to….

I’d be a little bitter too..

Grumpy
Member
4 years 2 months ago

The rumours just before the bitter end internally was that the Phoenix design was not well received and that a revised version was in the making. I saw the car early last year on a screen and I was not impressed. I say good riddance if they redesign it. What ever carries a Saab name must have a smashing design, not summer hit nice but long lasting.

As for NEVS and YM, let them fight it in the courts, seems as if YM may have a claim although the bankruptcy nullifies all contracts.

RS
Member
4 years 2 months ago

Why couldn’t they just take the Padian design one step further and make practical -thanks to the new platform- A3 and A4 killers looking like this:

Holy smokes would people have queue to get a SAAB hatchback with a frugal turbo, eXWD, an ice block dash and IQon.

SaabLife
Member
4 years 2 months ago

Wow…I would buy two of those brand new.

Incredible looking car.

Mark
Member
4 years 2 months ago

That looks okay and I’d probably buy one too, but it’s basically the old 9-3X Crossover Coupe (which I loved) with an Aero-X type nose on it. I think we need to move past the Aero-X and NG9-5 look now, and that is what I was hoping Jason Castriota might achieve with his new 900 hatch. Unfortunately I think it’ll need more than NEVS if that kind of car’s ever to see the light of day.

RS
Member
4 years 2 months ago
My fear was always that the new design would be rushed/cost too much when model range was far more important. Never put your eggs in one basket. It was probably exiting to talk about how the whole company lives or dies with the JC car but not very smart business wise if you’re in it for the long haul. Spyker was too much about taking chances and not securing survival if sales would take time to pick up with improved products. Which is exactly what happened. By the time people were ready to order cash had ran out. Hate to… Read more »
Mark
Member
4 years 2 months ago
Net necessarily the JC car, but a 9-3 replacement would’ve been Saab’s bread and butter car (as the 9-3/900 has always been. The 9-5 was slow moving and I don’t think Saab was going to make much oof the 9-4x until the next gen (Saab built) model. I think Spyker made a number of small errors which cascaded. When it reached out for help it just got doors slammed in it’s face. Atl least it’s business plan made sense and wasn’t a hugely speculative one that relies on market conditions that don’t exist. Now who would that belong to?
RS
Member
4 years 2 months ago

A slightly updated 9-3 and a 9-5 WAGON would have sold very well in Europe. Remember those two got thousands of orders even before people were able to test drive them!

Now NEVS is aiming to break even in ten years… Maybe EV’s won’t be an instant hit after all?

Skipper
Member
4 years 2 months ago

Well it looks great to me!

Jeroen
Member
4 years 2 months ago

Castriota’s design looks in no way like this. This is indeed, old Aero X-type design language. Castriota was miles away from this.

Jeroen
Member
4 years 2 months ago

If you saw the design early 2011, then you’ve missed a few updates since then. I last saw it in October of last year (up close and in real life that is, not on a screen), and that was not the same car that I saw in late 2010/early 2011. Personally, I thought the final design looked amazing.

Mark
Member
4 years 2 months ago

Well I hope we get to see it and not only in an EV version.

zippy
Member
4 years 2 months ago

I so want to see JC’ 9-3!!!!!

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