Scania disallows NEVS to use the Griffin

A few hours ago Swedish radio P4 Väst reported that Scania refuses to grant NEVS the rights to use the Griffin symbol on their cars.

Saab’s new owners Nevs has suffered a setback in the negotiations surrounding the brand. Scania is saying no to Nevs may use the classic Gripen symbol of their brand.
– From our perspective, we will not allow them (Nevs) to use the Gripen, said Scania’s Senior Erik Ljungberg.
What will it take for you to change you and to say yes?
– We see little opportunity for us to change us and we deem it non-negotiable, says Ljungberg.

While this is sad because we all got to like “our” Griffin over the years this is not such a big surprise. On the second generation of the 9-5 as well as on the 9-3 Griffin the Saab wordmark became more prominent. As we already heard in 2009 this was due to a desire to change the optics as well as to avoid a huge fee for the continued use.

What I really want to stress here is that, as Erik Ljungberg of Scania also says in the article, Scania has no say regarding the Saab name. The negotiations about that are up to NEVS and SAAB AB.

So as I wrote in my recent post, there is still more than a good chance we’ll see brand new Saabs again in the future.

saabguy70
Member
4 years 1 month ago

Back to the Airplane Logo found on the early Saabs!

Fredrik Zetterberg
Member
4 years 1 month ago

+1!

jpm
Member
4 years 1 month ago

+2!

Carlo A
Member
4 years 1 month ago

If it is free from any “legal” chains …. why not?

WooDz
Member
4 years 1 month ago

+1

rune
Member
4 years 1 month ago

A poll will be posted 1700 GMT.

Mike Baughan
Member
4 years 1 month ago

+1

kochje
Member
4 years 1 month ago

Love it 🙂

RS
Member
4 years 1 month ago

Sorry guys. Never liked the old one. Reminds me too much of the two-stroke era. Aren’t we past propellers?

900 classic cab
Guest
4 years 1 month ago

+1

Olav
Member
4 years 1 month ago

No 🙂

RS
Member
4 years 1 month ago

Okay. LOL
But from a marketing standpoint quite problematic. Would the (younger) customers appreciate “the bomber”?
Maybe NEVS could launch a lineup of electric airplanes…

The modern font is the best option if Griffin is out the door.

Olav
Member
4 years 1 month ago

+1

John
Member
4 years 1 month ago
Its time to forget about NEVS dreams of building electric cars tor china, first, if we all drive electric car,which won’t happen, the price of electricity will go up, and up and up, then we’re in trouble again, second I don’t live in China so that means I won’t beable to buy a new SAAB when ever NEVS wakes up and builds a car. But I have more hope now, maybe also dreaming, I dont know but would it be great if SCANIA were to start building cars, A strong company like scania could go it, and bring back the… Read more »
Angelo V.
Member
4 years 1 month ago

That would be glorious. But if they had that intention, they should have bid on the carcass.

Douglas Brown
Member
4 years 1 month ago

AMEN! The classic airplane logo was on my first Saab (1967 96 3 popper!). I love that emblem!

ImolaRed
Member
4 years 1 month ago

You mean no more screaming chicken? lol

Wittendorff
Member
4 years 1 month ago

The most important issuse is the use of the name SAAB, without that, NEVS will just be another idealistic company.
By the way, The Tesla Model S seems to be a big hit, with aprox a 1000 cars ordered pr week. In Scandinavia 700 are ordered, 450 in Norway and 200+ in Denmark. So there is definetely a market out there.

Red J
Member
4 years 1 month ago

But according to Tesla’s CEO, their current problem is producing those cars on time. I’ve read that they have to produce 5000 cars till years end, and this seems to be not that easy for the guys at Tesla.

Carlo A
Member
4 years 1 month ago

yap a big challenge …. by the way where can you recharge them?

Bernard
Member
4 years 1 month ago

I’ve got electricity at my house, and I’m sure that most of Tesla’s target market does as well.
Let’s not pretend that the people who can afford a Tesla don’t have more than one car, or can’t rent a car for the occasional long road trip.

In the medium term, most businesses that have parking and want to attract customers will provide charging, just like they provide wifi. The cost of doing so is minimal, and it keeps these affluent customers in your shop/restaurant/mall for a significant duration. Easy to see how that can be monetized.

Thylmuc
Member
4 years 1 month ago

A full recharge of Tesla’s top model will cost about 21 Euro in Germany (85 kWh at 24.8 Eurocent). Is that “minimal cost” for a marketing gag to you?

Bernard
Member
4 years 1 month ago

The infrastructure cost is minimal. The cost of the electricity itself will ultimately fall on the driver.

Here is a similar (though obsolete) business: install a pay phone in your restaurant. People come in to use the phone, pay for their own call, and then you are in a prime position to sell them food/coffee/etc.

Your task for today: start a company that installs and maintains chargers. Lease them to businesses for a nominal fee, and negotiate favourable electricity rates so that you make a profit. Sell the business when chargers become ubiquitous (they will).

Carmania
Member
4 years 1 month ago

The cost to produce a kwh with modern and safe nuclear power is about 2.5 Euro cents. I believe natural gas and coal is even cheaper. So you have to ask your question to the German politicians.

RS
Member
4 years 1 month ago

Don’t know about Tesla but Saabs were made for the long trips. If you can’t use NEVS vehicles for that they better not be called SAAB IMO.
The day I need a city car I can pick up what ever crap that comes cheapest as there are no requirements for handling or power and there’s hardly any need for safety, except for the pedestrians.

Looks like the press has found a new brand to call the ‘Troubled carmaker’.
http://money.msn.com/business-news/article.aspx?feed=OBR&date=20120815&id=15456007

Baver
Member
4 years 1 month ago

I had a chance to see this up close almost two years ago, and had I not lived in a rural area, would have coughed up the $20K USD deposit for the chance to own one.

John
Member
4 years 1 month ago
I dont know why we wish for nevs to do something, All NEVS bought is a big shed in Sweden, they did not buy SAAB or it’s logo, they have Notting to show, they do not own saab simple as that, they own a shed notting elce. I think NEVS got totally robbed, poor lads. Saab cars to me is the logo and name and it design, and NEVS don’t have that. I’m sure if thinks work out for NEVS they will build nice battery cars, and may be the Chinese will love them, but with out a big European… Read more »
rune
Member
4 years 1 month ago

What is wrong with wishing for good things to happen?

I believe that a strong partner could ressurect the Phoenix-platform. As long as it seems NEVS are exploring such options, I for sure want to follow the events as they unfold.

Eric
Member
4 years 1 month ago

So Saab AB can grant the rights for use of the Saab name & Scania has the rights to & say who can use the Griffin logo/badge, right?
Of which the latter was denied.

WooDz
Member
4 years 1 month ago

Scania is owned by VW, so maybe there shouldn’t be too much surprise that the griffin was denied.
Just sounds like another large conglomerate protecting their CI.

Red J
Member
4 years 1 month ago

I don’t know what to say about this. On the one side Saab had already other logos prior to the Griffin, the plane for instance and in its latest incarnation the Griffin badge had to much colour for my taste, on the other side having such an heraldic figure in the logo makes the brand feel a little bit more up-market, but still I think the more technical “plane logo” described much better the values behind the Saab brand.

fulltpafemman
Member
4 years 1 month ago

+1

Baver
Member
4 years 1 month ago

Not unexpected. I do see an uphill struggle to get even the name rights from Saab AB, sadly. As far as the Griffin, I did miss seeing it on the steering wheel of my 2011, but now that I’ve had it a year, I’m fine with the wordmark. The plane logo that comes up in the HUD when you start the car would be a nice direction to go back to.

saabserb
Member
4 years 1 month ago
The Griffin itself (although I think it was quite nice symbol) is a minor part in the SAAB brand, I would say. Personally I prefer the airplane logo. So having a modern version of airplane logo for 21 century wouldn’t be so bad thing. But I am worried that the SAAB name fight would not have better outcome. Scania simply had bad feeling about NEVS and their product plans and didn’t want to jeopardize Scania brand. I suspect that SAAB Aeroplane will not have much different opinion, so that is why NEVS must present something really good, some Aces from… Read more »
JasonPowell
Member
4 years 1 month ago
Not a big deal to me as I thought they were transitioning away from it anyways. Hell they may be able to keep the logo away but they don’t own rights to naming a model a Griffin and then throwing a big Griffin in an advert and I’d probably do that just for spite. I quite like the larger Saab lettering on the 9-5 grille myself and I think as much as Scania say no, most people associate the griffin head with Saab and not them. Maybe we should just call the company Griffin, they can’t stop that can they?… Read more »
ryanonsrc
Member
4 years 1 month ago

Griffin Automobile AB

Now, I must say that this has a nice ring to it. Of course, we can still hope for acquiring rights to use the Saab name but this isn’t all that bad of a worse case scenario, if you ask me.

WooDz
Member
4 years 1 month ago

Let’s see how many +1s we can get for bringing back the propellers.

Trued
Member
4 years 1 month ago

Hardly news… we knew this was coming and no grief, the Scania Griffin has been Scanias logotype taken from the coat of arms of the province of Skåne. There is a similar mythology creature that would be more suitable for the Trollhättan company. http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galleri_över_landskapsvapen_i_Sverige
Being born a “leo” I would take the Västergötland Lion over the Skåne Gripen!

Red J
Member
4 years 1 month ago

I think a Peugeot wouldn’t be amused about that.

Trued
Member
4 years 1 month ago

Compare Ferrari and Porsche same thing a prancing black horse!

hans h
Member
4 years 1 month ago

Why not? Porsche and Ferrari both have a horse.
(It is even the same horse, as I understand it. From the German town where the Porsche family comes from and where someone in the Ferrari family supposedly landed during wartime. I don’t remember the details.)

Thylmuc
Member
4 years 1 month ago

That is an important point. While Scania can prevent use of their mark, the red bird with the burning throat and the crown, their scope of protection goes only that far, because of that coat of arms actually limiting its scope. A somewhat different grippen, also derived from the coat of arms, could imho (as a patent attorney) circumvent that protection without infringing.

jonthaa
Guest
4 years 1 month ago

Oooh, big problem. Now no-one will buy a Saab anymore. Oh wait, that is already the case. Carry on, carry on.

sandborg
Guest
4 years 1 month ago

Props are terrific. Time to open the factory & making new SAABS, electric, petrol, hybrid, whatever. NEVS did not spend all that money for nothing. HR: step up the hiring process including intake of former SAAB employees.

alwaysSaab
Member
4 years 1 month ago

Come on, NEVS, please say something! What is your plan? Saab or no Saab?

WooDz
Member
4 years 1 month ago

The fact they applied to use the griffin logo is a pretty good indication that they want continue with the SAAB name. Which they can use

Angelo V.
Member
4 years 1 month ago

It would appear that either they have no plan or they have a plan that would not interest anyone in the Saab community—-thus, the silence.

Niklas G
Member
4 years 1 month ago

…or rather that plans still under negotion are far less interesting for anyone than facts and signed deals. Personally, I do not really care what they want to do or dream about doing. I prefer to wait for facts about what they WILL do, because all contracts are signed and everybody who has to approve it has approved it.

That’s pretty much what Nevs hve said also, statements like “when there is something to tell about, we will”.

hans h
Member
4 years 1 month ago

I agree.

scand
Member
4 years 1 month ago

Or they are getting cold feet.

spacy
Guest
4 years 1 month ago

Angelo:

The answer is:

” What’s it got to do with you, we are not your OLD SAAB, we just bought most of the assets of that Co ”.

Angelo V.
Member
4 years 1 month ago

Agreed. And that should be an affront to anyone who owns a Saab or likes Saab.

Karl Ask
Member
4 years 1 month ago

Yeah Say something dammit !!!!!!
Make me smile please !!!!!

كمال Fentianah
Member
4 years 1 month ago

SAAB SCANIA I hope to come back again

900 classic cab
Guest
4 years 1 month ago

Sad, sad, sad. One less badge in the rear of the newer 9-3 and 9-5 was ok. The cars looked great anyway. But I like to see the Griffin on the steering wheel, bonnet and wheels. Just like someone wrote before, that badge has some mystic around it and its much better looking that anything made before.

Niklas G
Member
4 years 1 month ago

As a compromise, I suppose you can buy as many spare part griffin badges as you wish, and glue them wherever you wish on your next car. 😉

But anyway, if Saab manages to get a new start with a new owner, then it’s kindof natural to use new updated badges also. If the cars are great, we’ll like them anyway. 🙂

900 classic cab
Guest
4 years 1 month ago
I agree until some point, but for me this badge was perfect. It has the right colors (like the Maserati one 🙂 It seems that slowly everything regarding SAAB is gone for good. I had hope about NEVS getting the name and badge. The last one is gone and I’m not very confident on the SAAB name either. I’ve already accepted this transition to electric cars, although I think that they should also be making hybrids, at least for a few years, as long as they would be called SAAB. For me, if there is no name, there will be… Read more »
fulltpafemman
Member
4 years 1 month ago

Good news! As many of you already discussed, the griffin is a Scania logo. I never liked it and think it looks kind of dated. NEVS/SAAB should definently update one of the old logos for the restart of the company. I would see this as an opportunity and not a setback. Let’s cut all visual ties to Scania and make the SAAB brand stronger 🙂

aap
Member
4 years 1 month ago
Some of the people here tend to think that anything made in the (former) Saab factory is a Saab. For me that is not the case. In my opinion the Nevs plans have very little to do with what SAAB was, could be, or should be. So to me it’s not dramatic that they won’t be allowed to use the Griffin sign nor the SAAB name. I have a very sad feeling that there will be never new Saabs again. GM won’t do it, Scania won’t do it, The Wallenberg family won’t do it. and certainly God won’t do it.… Read more »
Mark
Member
4 years 1 month ago

I’m not optimistic that Saab AB will grant the use of the Saab brand. More and more I think that if NEVS remains by itself, it’ll be little more than a small spin off of what was once Saab Automobile. In some ways it kind of reminds me of Avanti Cars that grew out of ashes of Studebaker and went on to continue production of the Studebaker Avanti. Gradually the Avanti became less and less Studebaker.

Angelo V.
Member
4 years 1 month ago

If NEVS were to produce 9-3 cars very similar to the ones Saab was making at the end—-I would totally buy into your Studebaker/Avanti analogy. However, what we are hearing is that NEVS plan is for Chinese market battery operated cars. That is so far away from what Saab was doing—-I don’t think it is close enough to be a good analogy.

Mark
Member
4 years 1 month ago

I only said “in some ways”, mostly in how a much smaller car producer sprang out of a larger one and went on to produce a previously existing model. Actually the Studebaker Avanti was a much newer car than the 9-3 SS which (even electrified) would be quite getting past it’s use by date in 2014 when NEVS EV version is set to arrive. Saab’s C900 might have managed a 15 year life, but that car had something of a cult status. The 9-3 SS certainly does not.

Angelo V.
Member
4 years 1 month ago
Unless NEVS is going to make gas/diesel powered cars and perhaps hybrids and sell them in the same markets where Saab was selling—-I don’t want them to have the name OR the logo. Using the old Saab factory to produce battery powered cars destined for China only doesn’t warrant use of either name or logo in my opinion. They could start fresh—-and since product and distribution channel will have absolutely nothing to do with Saab, neither should name/logo. Maybe in the future, the name could be licensed to another company who deserves it. As far as the logo goes—-it was… Read more »
Silas
Member
4 years 1 month ago

Sounds like it’s time for someone to create a logo incorporating the Phoenix especially if they use the new platform for a future car. It would definitely would be fitting for the brand given the circumstances and the meaning. I can think of two different versions of a Phoenix logo. One that is head on with the wings out similar to the old airplane SAAB logo and the other a profile of the head of the Phoenix like the Griffin logo.

SaabsUnited contest maybe for best logo options?

Aero1
Member
4 years 1 month ago

Sorry, but I think Grievious Motors owns the phoenix emblem.

spacy
Guest
4 years 1 month ago

Depends.

In the UK, they call Opels, Vauxhall who have the Wyvern** as it logo.
That is why Saab could not call their Griffin series griffin in the UK.

Of course if one does the history, Vauxhall’s ‘bird’ is a Wyvern, not a Griffin:

http://www.draconika.com/wyverns.php

scand
Member
4 years 1 month ago

If they wouldn’t allow the use of the logo ( and how many people even realized scania owned it – I didn’t), there is next to no chance Saab will let NEVS use the name.

The last thing they need is a repeat of the last two years.

rune
Member
4 years 1 month ago

http://ttela.se/ekonomi/1.1733731-scania-sager-nej-till-nevs-i-varumarkesfragan

SAAB AB said today they are still in discussions with NEVS.

scand
Member
4 years 1 month ago

Saab ab are in a difficult place. Being Swedish, they will want to do what ever they can to help it survive ( whereas scania is not Swedish owned anymore, and also you can survive a Logo change fairly easily).

The brand can’t survive a name change obviously.

Saab ab will want to see more than ” we are gonna do this or that and we are gonna sell x cars a year etc”

It’s a bit catch 22 for them.

rune
Member
4 years 1 month ago

I dunno.

Personally I echo Till’s hope (not necessarily belief) that NEVS are trying to partner up with someone who can produce a model range more in line with what we are used to. Until that happens I do not really care much about who gets to use the logo or name.

Mark
Member
4 years 1 month ago
We discussed this a few years ago when it looked like the Griffin might disappear. I think it’s only Scania’s stylized image of the Griffin that would be subject to licensing since the Griifin is the logo of Skåne County in Sweden and the Scania company would likely not be able to copyright it.. Although I don’t think Scania would like it, a different version of the Griffin in different colours would probably be permissible. Perhaps even a version of what Saab AB uses on it’s aircraft tail planes? Well that’s presuming NEVS gets the rights to the Saab brand… Read more »
ehallii
Member
4 years 1 month ago

It seems like a simple fix, just use the Phoenix symbol. Appropriate in many ways.

Niklas G
Member
4 years 1 month ago

+1
Great idea!

Sam
Member
4 years 1 month ago

These details have no meaning yet. Lets wait to see if NEVS actually closes on the purchase of Saabs assets. With Chinas economy slowing to a crawl, they might abandon plans for the purchase anyway.

Peter Gilbert
Member
4 years 1 month ago

How about just SAAB in the good old Helvetica typeface?

Michael Specht
Member
4 years 1 month ago

So, no more Griffin ? Never mind, it was a Scania emblem first. Let’s go for a full Saab logo, in case the brand name Saab is allowed to be used. Several possibility : a Phoenix head, a plane, swedish colors. I keep optimistic !

SVAB
Member
4 years 1 month ago

Most people would have no ideal what brand the griffin is for if it were not for SAAB being written on the bottom. I think its an OK logo, but i really makes no difference as long as they can use the SAAB name. It looks cleaner with just SAAB on the cars’ grill and trunk anyway. The griffin seems old and dated, if these are electric cars of the future, they would have needed to rebrand anyway. maybe they would have had a griffin with bolts of electricity coming out of its mouth.

saaburban
Member
4 years 1 month ago

Why should NEVs narrow itself to only making lightweight electric cars, when the same factory could make Saab glider planes. The airport runway in trollhattan and the Saab velodrome are basically side by side.

JasonVT
Member
4 years 1 month ago
Does it really matter? The Griffin is a Scania truck logo. It did not come about until 1985 models and only came about with the interlocking rings to show synergy between Saab and its corporate brother Scania. For many years after the Scania/Saab combination and after the airplane logo went away, Saab only used the logotype. The Saab logotype is strong, the Griffin is unnecessary. I don’t care about the Griffin, it could even be replaced by the cheeky little made in Trollhattan troll, although this isn’t exactly elegant or upmarket. This is minor. I want new cars available so… Read more »
JasonVT
Member
4 years 1 month ago

Also, I love the logotype in the rear of our 9-4x and the new 9-5, I only wish it had more LEDs behind the type to make it light up. All I care about is that it says SAAB and that it embodies the things that have made me always love Saabs. I would even consider a hybrid if it is good and Saabish-and I HATE the treehugging Prius crowd!

duckhead99
Member
4 years 1 month ago

I’d happily say goodbye to the Griffin……except mine flew off the hood YEARS ago!

SVAB
Member
4 years 1 month ago

that was a common problem anyway, at least the paint chipping of the badge. the new logo should be a metal dot. LOL.

Angelo V.
Member
4 years 1 month ago

On my 2004 9-5, it wasn’t paint chipping—-more like a decal peeling. When it was totally gone, you could see an image on the metal. That was very early in the car’s life—-covered under warranty and the new one has not had a similar problem. I will say, in hindsight—-I sort of liked the “tone on tone” of that ghost image on the metal, maybe even better than the full color logo.

Angelo V.
Member
4 years 1 month ago
Battery operated car woes. Do a word search “Fisker Karma Fires” and you’ll find plenty to read about the $102,000 electric luxury junk. “In 2010, the Department of Energy awarded Fisker a $529 million green-energy loan, in part to help purchase a shuttered General Motors plant in Delaware, where it predicted it would one day employ 2,000 auto workers to assemble a clean-burning gas-electric family car, known as the Atlantic. Fisker collected nearly $200 million until February this year, when the government froze the loan because the company was failing to meet the government’s milestones. Most of those federal funds… Read more »
Keith
Member
4 years 1 month ago

NEVS should file suit against Scania for 3 Billion dollars.

paddan
Member
4 years 1 month ago

I was behind a 2009 9-3 yesterday and you could barely read where Saab was below the griffin, which itself was very small. I never understood why GM eliminated the word mark on the rear of Saabs encase unless someone knew it was a Saab, it looked like an unbranded car. But I don’t think this is a major issue. Who knows if NEVS even really cares if it gets the Saab logo? And at this point, does it matter? Saab is relegated to the history books. This is a new company entirely.

paddan
Member
4 years 1 month ago

Because not “encase.” Tim, can you bring back the edit option after you submit a post?

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