Truth In Rumors

For anyone who follows me away from SU, yesterday I did a post about my thoughts on things surrounding Saab. I didn’t post here because Tim’s post was very active at the point I had written this and did not want to take anything away from it.

Running a blog like Saabs United is a huge undertaking and one that isn’t taken lightly. We as writers are constantly judged by what we write. Is this fair? I guess so because it’s what we signed up for and I think we all have big enough shoulders to take the heat when it comes. With that in mind though, we are constantly struggling with what to and what not to say. Anyone that thinks this is easy should really try it for themselves. Working for free trying to secure contacts that will trust you and give you information that is not available to the public is very time consuming and then what to do with what you’ve been given without losing your contact because you have revealed too much is quite a balancing act itself.

Below is what I wrote yesterday about everything going on right now.

The ongoing Saab saga and the leaks of info here and there have made it near impossible to know who is right and who is wrong or even what is good or bad. From the outside looking in for the average person reading the news clips, you get lost trying to find your way through it all. One day you hear that Saab is saved and almost as quick as the next you have the different media outlets casting doubts on everything surrounding the deal.

What do we really know for certain? We know that NEVS, National Electric Vehicles Sweden has been chosen as the successful bidder to buy what is left of Saab. They have stated that their intentions are to build electric vehicles in Sweden and to initially focus on the Chinese market but with the intention to be a global car company. In a nut shell, that is all we know for certain.

Rumors are what sell papers and for Saab and the financial disaster they have been through has had the opposite effect on tabloid news. This stuff sells and gets people reading. For those of us that try to look through the surface of what is being written, we don’t always have the sensational stories because they can not always be backed up by inside sources and therefore are hard to write.

Often times we find ourselves having to write about the rumors to try to find the truth hidden behind the opinions and words written by others.

Yesterday brought a lot of doubt and some possibly unfounded joy to some. It was reported that NEVS possibly had insufficient funds to complete the purchase of Saab and because they weren’t immediately available for comment as has been their MO the whole way through this process, some took that to mean that this was true and the deal was about to fall apart and some made the jump to thinking that Youngman could possibly come back and buy Saab.

NEVS has since responded to such claims stating that this is not the case and that they do have the funds needed for closing the deal and implementing the business plan. This does little to calm the people again stating this is the end and then begs the question as to why talk to the media if they and the public will make their own assumptions and not take you at face value? NEVS comment to Just Auto below sums up their way of doing things quite well.

“We have decided not to comment on what other actors are saying or speculation. We rather focus on closing and when we have something to say, we say it ourselves.”

If you remember, the Swedish media has not always been a nice place to discuss Saab in the past so why should they say anything? I know we as the fans want and feel like it’s our right to know everything but that is just not the case. Keep calm and wait and see are words way to familiar to anyone surrounding this whole ordeal but they are simply the only thing we can do.

Even making contacts with people behind the scenes, you can quite often come across two sides of insiders who tell you different stories so it is always hard to know where the truth actually is. I think I’ve come to think when I see things written, who is saying what? Are they trying to sell me on what they are telling the media? Do they have anything to gain in what is being reported? If the answer is yes to them selling me or if they have anything to gain, I take it with a grain of salt.

After I wrote this yesterday, there was a lot of talk on SU about how nobody wants NEVS, how SU was a better place before, heck I almost gave someone a stroke through conversation. The truth is that nobody including the writers know what will or wont be successful for Saab. We writers have an open mind to NEVS as they are the ones who have been chosen. Many feel that Youngman could have been a better owner but fail to remember that with the current range of vehicles, Saab failed to make money. This is not something that will be solved just by turning the production line back on again, it’s going to take a hell of a lot more then just showing up to build cars.

I am more then okay with people not agreeing with me or to think I’m crazy to have any hope in NEVS. Regardless of any of that, I will stand behind this company and the workers and people that have made it what it is. Saab is and will always be more then just cars to me.

Angelo V.
Member
4 years 26 days ago
Understood. But understand this: The fact that NEVS was “chosen” doesn’t mean they deserve blind support from people who loved Saab. I don’t want to go along to get along. People did that during the Holocaust. Obviously, that’s an extreme statement and not a fair comparison—-but the theme is that in my mind, three people did something very wrong. Am I now expected to endorse that travesty? No, I won’t either. As of now, no deal has been completed anyway, giving some of us a small sliver of hope that somehow, some way, the remnants of Saab can still go… Read more »
Allan B
Member
4 years 26 days ago
Angelo, I don’t think you are a well man. You need to slow down and have a think about what you are writing. When you mentioned that you are widowed a few months ago I wasn’t sure whether it was true, or just a flippant comment. If it is true, then I feel for you, but please have some perspective for God’s sake. We are talking about the fate of a car company here. Like others, I will continue to tentatively support NEVS for the time being. The suggestion that this is in some way comparable with being a Nazi… Read more »
Angelo V.
Member
4 years 26 days ago
Oh please Allan—-car nuts rarely have perspective when it comes to their passion—-cars. Reasonable people are rabid when it comes to their cars and their love of cars, brands, marques. Yes, I was widowed a few years ago—-September 2 will be three years in fact. My wife was only 45. I appreciate you remembering that and any thoughts/prayers you send my way. You say you will continue to tentatively support NEVS for the time being. Question: What would it take for you to stop supporting them? What is the scenario where you leave the dark side and join us here… Read more »
Allan B
Member
4 years 26 days ago
OK, I still don’t think anyone can talk like that and have all the horses in the stable, as they say in Sweden, but let’s just drop it for now. So drawing a line under the issues that are, to put it mildly, off-topic, this is the thing: It is true, you are right, that to a certain extent there is a tendency to welcome whomever appears to be the saviour of Saab given the quagmire it has been in. I have been “guilty” if that is the right word of having that tendency. But I genuinely am excited about… Read more »
hans h
Member
4 years 25 days ago

I agree with Allan B.

Angelo V.
Member
4 years 25 days ago
I guess at issue is one’s definition of “success.” When Rush Limbaugh said he “hopes (Obama) fails” what he was really saying is, “If he succeeds in implementing HIS vision—-my belief is that it will be catasrophic for the U.S.A., so I hope he fails.” The meaning was that “success” in one person’s eyes was “failure” in anothers. That is sort of how it is with NEVS. If their ambition is to within a reasonable period of time (I’m thinking by the 2016 model year at the latest) sell cars in the United States—preferably some with gas engines or perhaps… Read more »
Angelo V.
Member
4 years 25 days ago

To Allan and possibly Hans—-mystery solved. You like the idea of electric cars. Do you think including gas engined cars in the stable would increase the chances for the company to actually survive? Do you think it’s in the best interest of factory workers, future shareholders, all involved—-to limit Saab to an electric car?

Angelo V.
Member
4 years 25 days ago

As for having horses in the stable—-you might be right, but I’ll also assert that anyone buying into NEVS as a savior might have a serious neurosis of their own.

saabni
Member
4 years 25 days ago

Sorry Alan , Angelo makes most sense here! All we want is nevs to say that they will also partner with someone to make diesels, petrols , hybrids , then I believe nevs would have are full support!!

rune
Member
4 years 25 days ago
I doubt this is a competition in making the most sense. Angelo presents several valid points that I happen to agree with. However: Several of his claims could use a little more documentation. That is the hard part. I have searched for good sources on climate change, oil reserves (any left?) and battery technology, but most of the relevant stuff is behind paywalls. That holds true for the “opposition” as well, but technically they are right: The climate is changing (it always has), and the more oil we suck out of the ground the faster it will run dry. The… Read more »
Red J
Member
4 years 25 days ago
Rune, I’m missing the smiley on that Reg article on nuclear power. It may be good for investors to know that they can throw tons and tons of highly toxic wast to the humanity without having to cope for the cost of storing that waste, but I don’t want to have that waste in my vicinity, nor in the vicinity of any human being or animal. And regarding the first sentence in that article, (not a single person is harmed by radiation from the Fokushima meltdown), I would like to know how many of those IAEA guys would like to… Read more »
rune
Member
4 years 25 days ago
1) That uranium found in nature is causing damage as well. Maybe better to clean it up and store it somewhere safe, away from humans and animals? (or continue using it as fuel until it becomes much less radioactive) 2) The article claims no humans were hurt. Moving 25 km is hardly life-threatening — especially given that everything within that radius had already been demolished by that tsunami. And I suspect you could live there safely for a year or two, though 25 or 50 years may be a tad optimistic. Constructing a power plant on a mountain top somewhere… Read more »
Red J
Member
4 years 25 days ago

Can’t agree with you , sorry.

rune
Member
4 years 25 days ago

The last question in my comment is not about agreement or not. Those numbers are available and are just plain hard cold facts.

Angelo V.
Member
4 years 25 days ago
To respond to the observation of my stating the same points of view over and over—-two things: 1) There are a lot of visitors to the blog and even the regulars don’t read every post, every day, so restating something or rephrasing it can still have value. 2) If I’m repeating the same opinions over and over—-there is also a very good chance it’s because I’m simply responding to the same comments over and over. In other words—-challenging opinions on climate change for example—-if the same concern keeps popping up over and over that we need electric cars to save… Read more »
ThomasJ
Member
4 years 25 days ago

Maybe the hard facts can say one thing, but it would be better to switch to Thorium.
That’s a Cheap, Clean and Safe Alternative to Uranium.
It is also available in large amounts.

jonthaa
Guest
4 years 24 days ago
The radiation damage doesn’t only come from natural uranium. And that kind of radiation, even from spore uranium, cannot be used to fuel nuclear plants. You need a much higher concentration of uranium to be economically viable. So this is a non-valid argument. No humans were hurt – yet. Radiation at these levels has a slow but long lasting effect. And please dig up the numbers for Chernobyl, they will show you want impact it has on human health. Depends on how you measure that. Do you include the people dying in Congo from non-proper excavation methods? Do you include… Read more »
rune
Member
4 years 23 days ago
FWLIW: Deaths per TWh per energy source: http://nextbigfuture.com/2011/03/deaths-per-twh-by-energy-source.html Cost: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cost_of_electricity_by_source http://nuclearfissionary.com/2010/04/02/comparing-energy-costs-of-nuclear-coal-gas-wind-and-solar/ If by ‘flexible’ you mean the production of electricity is hard to predict in advance, then yeah, nuclear is not as flexible as solar or wind power. Point is that both solar and wind require a main source, unless you accept nationwide brownouts on cloudy windstill days. Hydro is by far the most superior source, but that cow has been milked plenty already. Ironically, a coal plant puts more radioactive particles into its nearby surroundings than a nuclear plant. I get that nuclear power is potentially dangerous. Specially in… Read more »
davidgmills
Member
4 years 23 days ago

Norway has huge deposits of thorium which should be the new nuclear energy.

JerseySaab
Member
4 years 26 days ago
Angelo, we agree on a lot of things but I think you need to take a step back and catch your breath here. Bringing the Holocaust even tangentially into this discussion is way over the top, don’t forget there are people out here that lost relatives in that horror and still some still living who survived it. I’m pretty thick-skinned but that was just too much. I have voiced here that I don’t have a lot of confidence in NEVS or their plans (what little we know of them), and am suspicious of the circumstances that led them to having… Read more »
Angelo V.
Member
4 years 25 days ago

That was simply pointing out a mind-set and I apologize for offending people with the analogy. Perhaps people who lost loved ones in Jonestown, Guyana are equally offended when they read about “Kool-Aid drinkers.”

Taras
Member
4 years 26 days ago

people will always have different opinions.. especially the ones’ that are full of negativity.. I say, if someone is stating something that is not true just tell them to relax and wait… that’s what true fans of Saab are doing.. we just wait for good news and save up money for a brand new Saab…

MeanSabean
Member
4 years 26 days ago

#1000 Jason! Angelo do us all a favour and go purchase KIA/Hyundai so you can leave this blog! How dare you compare the Holocaust to the NEVS situation!
Give us all a break!!!!!

saabni
Member
4 years 25 days ago

wise up he was not comparing it to holocaust , read it again!!!!

Angelo V.
Member
4 years 25 days ago
I was comparing the mindset of going along to get along—-even if what you are going along with is clearly not right. I venture a guess that approximately 100% of the people reading it absolutely knew beyond a shadow of a doubt that I wasn’t in any way, shape or form comparing car companies to murderers—-but there will always be some who feign outrage because they don’t agree with the other persons opinion—-and will use the accusation as a red herring—-or as a way to damage credibility of the argument being made. Everybody here knew exactly what was meant. Still,… Read more »
Angelo V.
Member
4 years 25 days ago

I can’t afford Kia or Hyundai. I can afford the cars, but not the corporations.

MeanSabean
Member
4 years 25 days ago

You know exactly what I meant Angelo! Get a Life!!!

Keith
Member
4 years 25 days ago

He can afford the corporations, it’s just that Rachel would be offended if he purchased a Korean competitor.

Angelo V.
Member
4 years 25 days ago

Already have a KIA Sedona as one of four personal vehicles and one company car.

Keith
Member
4 years 25 days ago

Better hide the Sedona, or 2nd base with Rachel ain’t gonna happen.

That said, I need forgiveness. I’ve been thinking about a 2013 Hyundai Elantra GT. It might speak to my hatchback heart.

RS
Member
4 years 24 days ago

Sounds like Saab would had really needed a 9-2 hatch to be assembled in Mexico for the U.S. market coming out with a $23k starting at price. GM just would never had allowed it. I have to admit Hyundiawaiaia is making all the right moves at the moment. Make the car look modern on the surface and save on the tech or make a cheeper copy of a powerful German premium vehicle. The consumers in America just love that sort of stuff.

Okay guys lets stone him now 🙂

Angelo V.
Member
4 years 24 days ago

The thing is, that Sedona, even though it’s a few years newer than my Saab, is parked in the driveway. The Saab and old BMW get garage space. The 33 year old Chevy Monza is parked next to the Sedona, with two waterproof car covers on it. I don’t have covers large enough to hide the Sedona. What should I be driving when I pick Rachel up—-the Saab or my company car, a Prius?

Angelo V.
Member
4 years 24 days ago

Actually, I’m confused now about what you meant. I had made comments about having enough money to buy Saab if NEVS has enough money to buy Saab. Then I read a comment that I should buy Hyundai or Kia and wasn’t sure if it meant buying a new Hyundia or Kia, or BUYING HYUNDAI OR KIA—-the companies. So no, I didn’t know exactly what was meant, which is why I phrased that response the way I did.

ThomasJ
Member
4 years 26 days ago

I am not confident in what NEVS will result in, but i am 100 % sure about this:
Regardless of any of that, I will stand behind this company and the workers and people that have made it what it is. Saab is and will always be more then just cars to me.
That was great sentences.

FinnFemFel
Member
4 years 26 days ago
I don’t think that the you – the SU crew – have to defend yourself. It’s your blog, and you can write what you want and take any position you want. But since you invite people to comment, you may have to accept that people will be of different opinions. There are lot’s of comments here that I don’t like, because they are just remarks without substance and without connection with reality. But I also think there is plenty of good discussions from people of different minds. It is always easy to just label articles, etc. in the press as… Read more »
Allan B
Member
4 years 26 days ago
I agree with a lot of that. I have been guilty of dismissing newspaper reports that predicted doom (or at least problems) for Saab, because they way the report was highly pejorative, I did not give due weight to the hard evidence – a good source, for instance, at the heart of the story. But there have been some fine examples here on SU of the Tim and others filleting out the sources from such stories in other media and examining them in isolation to see if they stand up or not. I don’t think SU have been as monocular… Read more »
saabserb
Member
4 years 26 days ago
+1 in DI. As I wrote before here, I used to hate DI for trashing SAAB whenever they got the opportunity, but it doesn’t change the fact that they were first on publishing some rumors that became true later. For example, it was first in DI that I read about SAAB going into bankruptcy. I didn’t like it, I didn’t want it to be true, I was looking for some hope all over the Internet, but they were right at the end. For example, DI was first in publishing rumor that NEVS would buy SAAB. Also didn’t like it, didn’t… Read more »
dezzer
Member
4 years 26 days ago

i am just sitting here watching opening ceremony for the Para olympics and thinking how lucky i am to have a healthy and fit family and feel quite humble. To put it into persective, all i have to worry about is where to get a new rear bumper from for my 2008 aero, Watching these olympians compete…….makes my bumper feel all so unimportant.
Good luck to all who are competeing and to make it a safe games.

saabserb
Member
4 years 26 days ago

+1000

xelav
Member
4 years 26 days ago

I’ll buy you a pint!

dezzer
Member
4 years 25 days ago

when ?

Simon
Member
4 years 26 days ago

Did you try to find a used rear bumper?

spacy
Guest
4 years 26 days ago

Desser.
I to was very humbled, & wish all those lovely souls sheer happiness, always.

Have a look on ebay uk, lots of Saab bits there.

spacy
Guest
4 years 26 days ago

Apologies = Dezzer

dezzer
Member
4 years 25 days ago

looking as we write….cheers

Ed Davids
Member
4 years 26 days ago

Hi there. I’m sincerely interested in the current state and fate of Saab (as the owner of a 2010 9-3 Convertible “orphan,” my fourth Saab) and of this blog …and of the exchange between Jason and Angelo (though respect him as I do, I think Angelo’s getting a bit over-the-top). For my edification (maybe I missed it somewhere), Jason, what is your background and ties past or present, to Saab? Thanks!

xelav
Member
4 years 26 days ago
Nice article JP, it’s in line what TimR wrote, and as i responded to his article , there is a lot of respect for you SU people, and you don’t have to defend your own opinion , it’s good that everybody has his own. Otherwise it would become boring . And for Angelo, I mostly get a smile on my face reading his posts, not that i agree to al he is saying and yes, he’s al over the place. Let’s respect each other , and keep it decent. I hope you and the SU team continue in your own… Read more »
kochje
Member
4 years 26 days ago

Exactly; I do have exactly the same thoughts.
I will continue to read this blog as long as I drive Saab, and that will hopefully be very long, while this is the best source of information I can think off.
But we have to realize that this is still a blog.
Hope that ones the spokesman of NEVS do realize that SU is a medium they can trust, t they put SU in their network when they have serious things to tell to the Saab community.

Ronnie_Rad
Member
4 years 26 days ago

Jason,

“…heck I almost gave someone a stroke through conversation…”

Careful, I’m not fully recovered yet!

We disagree, and I have a typical hot temper Jersey attitude, but Jason your still awesome, I appreciate your commentary (as long as it doesn’t leave me hospitalized ;)), and think we are pulling for the same team.

TEAM SAAB!

Ebolie-21
Member
4 years 26 days ago
Whatever statement and reasoning you are putting forward, just look for the truth and trusting yourself. What you are experiencing is what a true journalist is living through each day. Try to do your research right and then make your comments, no matter if you do voice a contrarian opinion against everyone else, you have elaborated the facts and you offer some judgement, hopefully in favour of the cause. Just continue the road you have outmapped and you will see the result will become reality. I know personally what I am talking, because I am engaged in publishing the better… Read more »
JH
Member
4 years 26 days ago

Very well written as usual, Jason! As others have commented, you needn’t defend yourself or what you are writing. I understand that it’s hard to report about Saab at the moment, when there is so much speculation and rumors but not much facts available. The old journalistic rule ”never report anything that isn’t confirmed by two independent sources” seems to be forgotten these days, at least in mainstream media. I’m waiting as patiently as I can for some fact-based news and hope they’ll be positive. I can’t do more. Keep up the good work with SaabsUnited! 🙂

Chris Hansel
Member
4 years 26 days ago
Jason; I agree with you 100%. The only thing to do is to stay positive. What I can’t understand is why certain people are so upset about NEVS. You would think some kind of Saab is better than none, would you not? Not to name names, but certain people who post seem to have some type of far right poltical viewpoints, which they then tie into actions against GM, perhaps because GM was saved by the current admistration. But, does any of this stuff tie into the future of Saab? I can’t see how, and most of the others can’t… Read more »
saabdog
Member
4 years 26 days ago

Chris, I think I can speak to your statement about why certain people are so upset about NEVS: We don’t know NEVS. They haven’t approached the Saab community in any substantive way. Many of us feel NEVS was handed the keys to Saab in a way that is not entirely kosher. Their statements about an all EV Saab is unrealistic. In my mind, these are good reasons to be upset at the situation…I’m sure others have reasons, too…these are mine.

Martin T16s
Member
4 years 26 days ago
Ever heard the saying, “dammed if you do, dammed if you don’t”? Well as far as I am concerned this expression applies 100% to the writers at SU. These guys give up a huge amount of time to do all they can to keep us informed as best they can. Let us not forget all these guys have extremely busy lives outside SU. IE full time jobs, families to look after, children schools and all that goes with that. So to then still find so much time to run SU I only have total admiration for them. How the hell… Read more »
Allan B
Member
4 years 26 days ago

Well said.

Martin T16s
Member
4 years 26 days ago

Thank you Alan.
What I witnessed in here yesterday saddened me and was not at all in the Saab spirit. Some commentators ought to be thoroughly ashamed of their conduct, not of their views and opinions though I hasten to add.

Angelo V.
Member
4 years 25 days ago

Yes, and we can honor the people who run this site and writers who contribute to it, by not being patronizing—but by voicing opinions, some in agreement and others in opposition. I love seeing threads that have over 100 comments—I get lost in those when I visit. They are much more engaging to me than where I see 7 comments—all “atta boys.”

74StingSaab
Member
4 years 26 days ago
The problem here is this… if someone says something that irritates another, they make it personal and attack that person instead of just ignoring it or having polite conversation. Example, Chris Hansel accused people of bring far right politics in to this mess. Perhaps some people do.. but you have to share the blame. Just as many lefties here belch their opinion as well. The PROBLEM with that is people get sidetracked and begin to attack one another. Then they log in more often to see if there is a response and then they attack some more… like blood thirsty… Read more »
KingRichardSaab
Member
4 years 25 days ago

74StingSaab,

I agree with you saying “If you have nothing nice to say, it’s better not to say anything at al” ……UNLESS it has to with out LOST warranties…..I know everyone, I should get over it!!!! 🙂

Martin T16s
Member
4 years 26 days ago

Not sure if anyone else saw this piece in this weeks Sunday Mirror here in the UK. It was in the motoring section written every week by Quentin Wilson who,s writing I actually admire and respect. I thought it was an interesting read, particularly the tone of the writing and the clear message it is sending out.
I neither support it nor disrespect it but either way it is certainly thought provoking.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/authors/quentin-wilson/quentin-willson-on-fords-electric-car-1279042

In light of all the negativity on SU right now I just thought this may add a little bit of weight to your cause and belief.

Best regards

spacy
Guest
4 years 26 days ago

I have been to Spain a few times this year & hire cars whilst there.
Last October it was a small Opel something? 1.20 diesel, small, etc.
DID NOT LIKE IT, under powered & nothing in reserve after 70 miles an hour…

The last few occasions I’ve driven a Ford Fiesta 1.4 diesel.
A great little motor, very economical & still has a bit of go.
Combine this with some EV stuff & Ford have nailed it.

Angelo V.
Member
4 years 25 days ago

“Well I’ve never been to Spain…but I kinda like the ladies.” Three Dog Night, circa early 1970s.

Antonio
Member
4 years 26 days ago

God knows what you passing and I know that is very hard to please both sides.

Good Luke is all that I desire to you.

100%Saab
Member
4 years 26 days ago

SaabsUnited people get a little tired and maybe irritated when they don’t hear good news.

Just a thought.

74StingSaab
Member
4 years 26 days ago

They take some time away… I did. Now I wonder what the F happened here..

kid cassady
Member
4 years 26 days ago
NEVS is a fledgling, newly invented shadow of a corporate entity that presently does not have the money to purchase any of Saab’s assets. There is no demonstrated reason at all to have faith in them. Muller’s adventure with Saab prior to this shows that you need money to develop cars – a lot of money. NEVS has neither money, nor expertise, nor even the slick cavalier attitude of Saab’s former white knight, who is presently offloading the Phoenix platform to the Chinese for an assuredly comfortable sum. And NEVS want to develop electric cars for a country not receptive… Read more »
Jesse Crandle
Member
4 years 26 days ago
I get the feeling a majority of people read these comments with feelings one way or the other, but somewhere in between the strong feelings posted. Honestly Angelo always comes to mind as being a strong minded person, a quasi antagonist as it were, and while he can be quite harsh with his comments he always gives a dose of what if reality when I find myself getting too optimistic. I think (putting words into his mouth here) he’s telling us to hope for the best but prepare for the worst. That being said (and as much as I side… Read more »
RS
Member
4 years 26 days ago
Saab would have done just fine selling IC engine powered cars had the owners of the past supported the company to grow into a major contender like one of the German manufacturers. I’ve yet to find a vehicle with the qualities I like combined the same way they did it in THN. Imagine how many cars they could have sold with a few more improvements and GM letting them do their thing. To try and jump over hybrid vehicles completely is a mistake I don’t think NEVS can afford to make. It most likely will also be the deciding factor… Read more »
rune
Member
4 years 25 days ago
I am not at all convinced there are that many choices as you indicate. “Good handling” can mean so many things, but BMW’s infamous cornering abilities that everybody touts is worthless in the winter. Then that BMW has to rely heavily on an electronic brain to keep it on the road. And it is not that long time ago they managed to get proper handling on _dry_ asphalt (http://www.teknikensvarld.se/Handlers/PdfHandler.ashx?id=21038 says “a small lift with the innermost front wheel indicates that a 5-series touring still fails to live up to the ideal in the moose-test. The antispinsystem is really required on… Read more »
Thylmuc
Member
4 years 25 days ago

Maybe he was referring to Audi, Volvo, VW, Skoda, Renault, Citroen or other FWD cars? There are alternatives, and it is a legitimate question why it should be a Saab. It most certainly is not the FWD, as this concept is the clear winner by the numbers.

rune
Member
4 years 25 days ago
I checked out Audi’s Swedish website a few months ago and found no turbo engines in its A6 line. When the NG9-5 came out, the A6 was often said to not be as good as the 9-5 at cornering. Finally, last week’s announcement from IIHS cast doubts on Audi’s crash prowess. Close, but no cigar. As for the others… No, they are IMO not in the same class. Volvo is inching forward though. They seem to be adopting Saab’s instrument cluster layout. They are about to embrace 4-cylinder turbo engines. They perform well in crash tests. But the V50 was… Read more »
RS
Member
4 years 25 days ago

BTW what’s with ovloV nowadays? V60 turning away from practicality and looking like something coming out of Korea.
A 245 turbo. Now that was a serious Swedish car for hauling stuff -when the roads were dry.

xelav
Member
4 years 25 days ago

iReplying don’t know what’s wrong with the road performance and handling from a V50. All I know that I can’t keep up with a V50 in corners with my Saab 9.3 vector sportestate 210hp full opts automatic. A V50 has the same good chassis as a focus. Which has the reputation as being the best fwd in that class . Maybe that V50 hat old tires? My Saab sure has not.

rune
Member
4 years 25 days ago
The one I tried had studded tyres. It was a rental with (as I recall) 10000 km on the odometer. On the highway it felt nervous — unable to decide whether it would climb the icy ridges of the tracks left by the trucks or slide down between. On the farm road leading up to my dad’s place, I managed to push the V50 quite far, but had to walk the last 20 meters. The old 9000 probably could have covered that piece of road using summer tyres and with the non-studded winter tyres had absolutely no problems at all.… Read more »
Angelo V.
Member
4 years 25 days ago

All the virtues you point out—and I agree with—will they be in that new NEVS product?

Jesse Crandle
Member
4 years 25 days ago
This has somewhat proved the point I was making, Rune is defending Saab, but he is in our core group of Saab lovers, and by the numbers there aren’t that many people you can pull away from Toyota, or Subaru, or BMW, or Audi… This is why I think something drastic like electric cars *could* be the right step. As I mentioned in my post do I like them? Not really, but without something crazy like this I’m not sure a small company like Saab with it’s bad history of closing in on itself would have another go. Yes, as… Read more »
Angelo V.
Member
4 years 25 days ago

“Something more”, I can get behind. Battery operated INSTEAD of gas powered—-no, I can’t possibly get behind that. “in addition to” absolutely. “instead of” NFW.

Thylmuc
Member
4 years 23 days ago

Err, I would not participate on this web site if we were not of the same opinion regarding Saab. 🙂 I was just referring to that single FWD argument vs. BMW. Why of all brands that ugliness? Shiver…

rune
Member
4 years 23 days ago
BMW is often used as a yardstick to measure quality of interior and “driver’s car” against. To me, most Saabs have hidden qualities that makes cross-shopping a difficult task (unless your checklist consists of “has four doors” and “car goes ‘honk’ when pressing the middle of the steering wheel”). By picking an upmarket competitor, I hoped to make that comparison a little easier. A few of us here I think have expressed our desire for what is basically a FWD hatchback BMW (with at least the interior space of a OG900). At a low price of course. In my head,… Read more »
Troels, Denmark
Member
4 years 25 days ago

+

rafael guerra
Member
4 years 25 days ago

Saab´s fate is the result of globalization, right now the automobile industry is consolidating and only big corporations will survive . few brands will control the market
I visited GM facility located in Ramos Arizpe, Where saab had produced the 9-4x suv, now this plant is producing Cadillac SRX ( beautiful suv), basically is the same product,

marcus
Member
4 years 25 days ago

there´s only one solution:
we all have to respect each other and the different opinion.

none of them are more truth – they often are a result of the different point of view.

it´s mostly all speculation and from that, everyone has his own thoughts.

so i don´t think that´it´s right, to segregate someone, who´s opinion is different – and the opinion of the makers of this great platform aren´t more “worth” than anyone else – but they have my full respect.

ps: sorry for my english, but the school in went is more than 35 years ago…

Thylmuc
Member
4 years 25 days ago

“Saab failed to make money. This is not something that will be solved just by turning the production line back on again”

Right, and all those stating that the production should be resumed with combustion engines should start indicating how such cars could be made more successful on the market. To me, it would be returning to the hatchback. But that alone won’t cut it.

Angelo V.
Member
4 years 25 days ago

Returning to the hatchback—at a lower price point. With better advertising and promotion. That would do it. That would cut it.

MeanSabean
Member
4 years 25 days ago

KIA AND Hyundai have hatchbacks great advertising and they have a lower prices! Angelo you should give them a try!!!!!!!!

Angelo V.
Member
4 years 25 days ago

I already own a KIA minivan. That’s a big hatchback. They’re also the fastest growing brand, by far, in the U.S.A. They’re doing something right.

Carlo A
Member
4 years 25 days ago
Hello I appreciate the amount of comments and writing that has been posted here …. and I would not like to be seen as the one that oversimplifies things …. but: – do I like what I heard about the NEVS business plan? No, I would have liked SAAB to produce hybrids that are what I would buy – would I like someone else to have won the bid to buy SAAB from the administrators? Possibly, I do not have enough information about the other bidders but my impression is that we are commenting on something we only know partially… Read more »
Angelo V.
Member
4 years 25 days ago

Carlo: One of the things I’ve been commenting on (along with others) is that we SHOULD know more about NEVS. We SHOULD know more about what they are planning to do with Saab. We don’t like the silence.

wfg
Member
4 years 25 days ago
I just read something that might be interesting and important for the Saab/NEVS deal. As many of us will remember Magna, the Canadian/Austrian car supply company that also builds cars from several prestigious car companies (and actually the Saab 9-3 convertible too) has just announced to build a manufactory for components for electrical cars and hybrids close to Graz here in Austria. I am not sure whether it’s a good or bad news for NEVS as one might see this manufacturer as potential supplier for NEVS‘s cars while some others might see that already other companies start thus making the… Read more »
Troels, Denmark
Member
4 years 25 days ago

Does anyone know how many former SAAB-engineers that have been hired from:
– NEVS
– Volvo
– Spyker/YM

I think this issue is very important for the possible future of progressive Saab-values.

VikingAir
Member
4 years 25 days ago
Fine, once again we just wait, keep calm, carry on and wait some more on things that might (or might not) happen… Good thing my main interest is with aviation instead of cars 😉 I don’t mind waiting; my 9000 is still very much alive and kicking and able to go on for years to come till, maybe, in the future, a new Saab comes along that can finally replace the old lady. That might take a long long time though; although I’m sure eventually the technology will mature enough to make electric vehicles the norm, I don’t find them… Read more »
hilmar
Member
4 years 25 days ago

I fully understand that NEVS keep quiet. In the era of cell phone and Internet you can nearly everything gab to death. 😉

sonett71
Member
4 years 25 days ago

I don’t believe in NEVS, they do not instill confidence, but I still hope on Saab as a great automobile manufacturer in the future. Something will happen and change from todays situation…

Angelo V.
Member
4 years 25 days ago

Agreed.

zippy
Member
4 years 25 days ago

Saw a 2011 Saab 9-5 in the carpark at work yesterday. Parked my heap of junk next to it, had a snoop around said Saab and as I walked away I turned around and thought to myself ‘Simon Padian, damn you are good!!!!’.

Saab died on 19 December 2011 but it still doesnt stop me drooling over one every time I see one.

marcus
Member
4 years 24 days ago

yes! simon padian was really great and for me the best designer since years.

hans h
Member
4 years 24 days ago

The last (?!) Saabs were beautiful. Especially if you include the Aero-X and 9-x Air.
I. Want. One.

And I also want GM Dead and Forgotten, but you knew that… 😉

jonthaa
Guest
4 years 24 days ago
Gentlemen, I always thought that I was among peers in this group of people at SU. Unfortunately, since Steven left, the tone of the conversations has gradually deteriorated to a level that I simply don’t like anymore. Since this site hasn’t been offering any added value to me in the last half year, I will be deleting my account. The very best to all of you, and the very best to whatever company manages to reboot Saab. If a new electric Saab is available in two years, then I will certainly consider it. If it still comes with a petrol… Read more »
Angelo V.
Member
4 years 24 days ago

Usually, I equate “added value” with something I’m paying for. I think there’s an amazing “value” in having Jason, Tim R. and the others researching, keeping their ears to the ground and doing so much writing—-and we can visit and exchange ideas, agree, disagree, etc. for free. Why delete an account? What does that accomplish?

Angelo V.
Member
4 years 24 days ago

(This is in response to Brammelo’s comment above.)

orion
Member
4 years 24 days ago
I think we need a company with a vision, expressed to the outside world. We are desperately waiting for good stories, from enthousiastic companies, to look up to and to dream from. A company with a (personal) face. Cars are all about looks and feel, besides technics. My question is where stands NEVS in all this. To me it look s like a very calculating and quiet technical company, far away from the car-companies we get used to. We need heroes right now. I like stories such as this week from Muller, that makes me feel ok and that’s what… Read more »
orion
Member
4 years 24 days ago

Where is my post? I’ll try again.

I think we need a company with a clear vision, expressed to the outside world.
I think we need an enthousiastic company, with a (personal) face.
I think we desperately need good stories, where we can dream of.
I think cars are all about looks and feel, that’s why.

Where stands NEVS in all this?

We, the fans need a heroe to look up to.
To me NEVS is a very quiet, calculating and technical company. So….mm.
This week i heared/read the story from Spyker-Youngman and there plans. It made feel ok, and why is that?
It makes me write again.

orion
Member
4 years 24 days ago

Did i make myself clear (two times) haha!

Chek Enjin Soon
Member
4 years 24 days ago

Any news on Friday’s ultimatum?

gustaf
Member
4 years 23 days ago

+1

Carma
Member
4 years 23 days ago

The deadline came. And went. But nobody died. Boy, that grim reaper must be sooo mad right now.

100%Saab
Member
4 years 23 days ago

Yes, what happened?

Angelo V.
Member
4 years 22 days ago

Better question, what DIDN’T happen? Was a payment NOT made?

saabyurk
Member
4 years 22 days ago

For some reason, the Heinz ketchup ad lyrics of 1979 keep coming to mind: “Anticipation, anticipation…”

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