Meeting Johan and Mattias from NEVS
September 3, 2012 in Interview, NEVS
First off I’d like to thank you all for all the questions you guys came up with, as I was driving I peeked at my iPhone every time I had a chance to read up on what you guys wanted to know.
As we all know NEVS acquired the assets of Saab Automobile AB, the payment was made in full and in cash last Friday. It’s important to know that the major difference between this purchase and when Spyker bought Saab, that this time no loans were made for the purchase. Another major difference from the initial press-release NEVS made on June 13th is that National Modern Energy Holdings Ltd are now 100% owners in NEVS, previously it was reported that Japanese Sun Investment was going to own 49% of the shares, this is the most significant change in terms of ownership. Sun Investment is by no means out and serves mainly as a channel for creating business-relations with Japanese technologies seeking to expand upon their development.
Today RikardH and I met with Johan Andersson and Mattias Bergman from National Electric Vehicle Sweden, a quickly organized meeting which I have to say was very open and productive for us. It was the first time we had a chance to meet the guys working within the top level at NEVS. Both Johan and Mattias are based in Stockholm and had a flight to catch but felt that they wanted Saab’s fans to have a priority and be the first ones to visit the Saab factory after the take-over.
Rikard and I were greeted at the main gate by the two and we walked into the launch facility where we could see the production line, even though a big dark room we could still feel that the Saab spirit was very much alive and waiting to get in motion again, and soon it will.
And so to the interview: lets start with the most important: Mattias and Johan made it very clear that Saab as a brand shall remain the same. The requirements for a premium car are not lower in China than they are in the rest of the world.
Which brings us directly into the question of distribution: The impression so far that NEVS will focus only on China to start off with is wrong, NEVS aims for a global market directly from the start with world-wide sales directly, however the country which is most likely to have the largest sales is China due to its highly developed infrastructure to support electric cars. The western world is lagging behind the Chinese in this aspect and this will of course affect sales. So to explain, NEVS will sell Saab’s worldwide from day one but their main focus to make profit lies with the Chinese market. So any dealership currently selling Saab’s will very well be able to sell brand new Saab’s produced by NEVS.
Propulsion is the other major topic we discussed of course, and NEVS does not close the door on Hybrid-technology as with range-extension and real hybrid cars. This is still an issue they consider and it could very well be included in future products, however to start off with we are talking Zero Emissions cars and thus electric propulsion.
Technology cooperation is a major factor for NEVS, they want to work closely with other companies to jointly develop new technology as they have done for more than a year already. Japanese and Chinese engineers are on their way to Trollhättan to set up workshops and start developing the next generation drive-trains for what is to become NEVS first Saab, based on the current 9-3 but with a brand new power-system for the drive-train and of course some new design and functionality is also something we can expect. GM items such as infotainment and other parts which were integrated from GM are items which we can most likely expect to be developed (I’m of course thinking about iQon). The car which is launched with the 9-3 as base will be a new car, not just a facelift of the old one and SaabsUnited was of course promised to be one of the first to test this brand new car! =)
The idea for NEVS was born roughly a bit more than two years ago and the idea really started to come alive in the beginning of 2011. In the summer of 2011, Mattias Bergman was hired to handle the start-up process and Johan Andersson was hired in November 2011 to look at the concept and technologies involving electric vehicles. Mattias has been the one who mainly managed the purchase of Saab Automobile and been the main contact person with the bankruptcy administrators and he describes the process as extremely complex, mostly because of the extremely bad shape that Saab was in when the company went bankrupt. Saab’s last year had been a hunt for funding and a company that ends up in that situation has to make a large amount of compromises in order to stay alive and try to survive. All of these compromises is one of the main factors which caused the process to take such a long time to be cleared up.
A simple task of just gathering all the documents at Saab and processing them is an enormous task and very difficult to do, and this is just one of the things the bankruptcy lawyers had to do.
But lets get back to the Vehicles, we talked about Saab’s values in deep detail and NEVS really wants Saab to remain what it always has been at the core, one of the safest cars in the world, they don’t want to see an old Saab and a new Saab but rather a continuation of the values that have always been Saab but this time with a greater focus on emissions and friendliness towards the environment. One of the major aspects that will be focused on with ZE (zero emissions) cars is weight. And this is where the aircraft heritage really comes into play. With aircraft for the last 20 years everything has been about fuel-efficiency and weight and in the world of aviation we have become very good at it. Now its time for the Auto-Industry to look to the same thing, combining new strong materials giving serious weight reduction and thus greatly extending the range of the cars. This of course combined with brand new electric engine and battery technology.
Talking about premium I asked why NEVS didn’t start production in China and the answer was simple, it’s what we’ve said on SU many times before regarding quality and Chinese production. There is also still a regard around the world for Chinese products to be cheep and of low quality, even though they might not necessarily be so, most products produced in China still get that impression. And the fact is that Chinese people who can afford a premium car, want a European or American car rather than a Chinese built car, since it has a lot to do with image and feeling.
So why did NEVS decided to buy Saab? the answer to that was: well it was for sale. If not Saab they would have pursued something else or other brand. But as it happened Saab was for sale and Kai Johan Jiang who is a Swedish citizen and have strong feelings for Sweden and its history felt that it would be a good combination to integrate NEVS kind of environmental friendly thinking with the history of innovation and design which lies within SAAB.
So from now on September 3rd will be marked as the new chapter of Saab, one might call it Saab’s fourth era and the key issues for NEVS to do right now in order to meet their target date of launching a brand new car 18 months from now, are the following
- People, one can buy facilities but not people. NEVS needs to attract the competence from former Saab employees and managers and get them started. They will in turn expand the recruitment and in such hire more staff. There are a lot of the former Saab employees that NEVS wants back, but also a number of people they do not want to hire.
- Suppliers. The relationships with Saabs former suppliers have been severely damaged and this needs to be repaired. But relationships with brand new suppliers needs to be formed as well and this is a very important factor for NEVS.
- Get Saab back on its feet. To set up the production in an even more optimized way than it was before NEVS has already hired some key people within the production who are working on first of all removing the production tools and parts for the 9-5 which NEVS does not own the rights to but also to set up a brand new production which is highly focused on quality, probably one of NEVS most important issues within Saab. Pre-production of cars should start at least 5-6 months before launch of the car so I think we can expect the first hiring of production staff within 6-12 months.
One thing NEVS will focus greatly on is keeping a lid on things. We at SU have become very used to being fed information about what is going to happen but this will change. I feel rightly so. NEVS has competition from many aspects and they do not feel that letting out its secrets before they are supposed to be revealed will gain Saab in any way. They will tell us about things as they happen…
I have to say that my meeting with Mattias and Johan was very warm and open towards us. They care deeply about the fans and want to create a good connection with us (the fans). They of course understand that we are the future customers of their products and I have invited NEVS to the SU Octoberfest and they are investigating if and how they will be able to attend. They of course also want us fans to stay within the loop of whats going on at Saab and NEVS hopes to have a good relationship with SU and its fans. One thing that surprised me was how up to date they were with the discussions that were going at the website. They really read everything, yep, everything! =)
I also spoke to Victor Muller on the phone this morning and he is very happy that there will be Saab cars built once again. But most important for him is the fact that many of his former employees will get a job once again.
terry9000k said on September 3, 2012
.
Job Done then!!.
Must say these 2 guys are very young Blood & maybe that’s what is needed.
guy davidson said on September 4, 2012
as I was wondering earlier..these are just front men.. who are the real masterminds behind NEVS.
Remco said on September 3, 2012
Finally some good news. Build me a 9-3 Plugin hybrid and I’ll probably buy it.
Troels, Denmark said on September 3, 2012
Yes, a Phoenix-Hybrid-Saab!!
Greg Abbott said on September 3, 2012
This post is a pleasure to read, and is good news indeed. I’ll certainly give a close look at an electric 9-3. Saabs are safe but they are also fun to drive – I hope that part do not get lost in the NEVS transition.
As a new 9-5 owner, it’s a bit melancholy to read about moving the parts and tooling for the new 9-5 out of the factory. It’s a great car and deserved better. I hope at least the tooling and parts are going to the separate Saab Parts company.
But good news. No more waiting for approval on complicated ownership structures which attempted to simultaneously satisfy Swedish, Chinese, and GM bureaucracies.
Full speed ahead.
dcpattie said on September 3, 2012
Tim, did you press them about 2010/2011 warranties?
Tim said on September 3, 2012
Nope and its not something that I will ever do because NEVS has nothing to do with the Spyker/GM era cars.
BarryMemphis said on September 3, 2012
Tim, please respond to this very important question. Did they say anything about the issue of 2010/2011 warranty reinstatement?
Tim said on September 4, 2012
No they didn’t and I will not ask them about it. NEVS has nothing to do with the older models… that is an issue for SAAB Parts to solve!
dcpattie said on September 4, 2012
Tim, I respectfully disagree. This site is a major resoan why I have a $53,000 USD NG 9-5 in my garage. And for the record I love it.
The question to ask is simple, but the message to current Saab owners is key. If they do not care about Saab owners, then why pursue the Saab name? Clearly they plan to build on the Saab tradition yet they plan to shaft 2010/2011 owners? I’m sorry but if this is the case then I’ll never, ever buy a NEVS Saab and I think i’m on pretty solid ground saying that.
Angelo V. said on September 4, 2012
Actually, I think the question could be phrased in a very simple, respectful way: “On the Saab United’s website, several owners of 2010/2011 Saabs have asked if NEVS has any plans to honor the warranties those cars were sold with, or offer any sort of accomodation for the buyers of these cars?” This is a complicated issue for sure. I understand that people who forked over up to $50,000 or more for a car are now extremely frustrated that a short time later, they have no warranty coverage to speak of. On the other hand, NEVS had nothing to do with Spyker—-and apparently, their new products will have nothing to do with the final Saabs sold by Spyker. If they were to cover these warranties, they could be taken advantage of in a savage way by Saab parts and the remaining dealers who could rake them over the coals in how they bill the work out. Is it a no-win situation for NEVS? Maybe not. One thing they might consider is offering an allowance for these owners toward an aftermarket warranty? That might not satisfy everyone—-but buyers would need to understand that NEVS isn’t obligated to do anything—-so it could definitely be considred a good faith move if NEVS were to help these owners find some sort of coverage and also help pay for it, even if not covering the entire thing. If the aftermarket warranty company denied certain claims, as they often do—it wouldn’t be fair to blame NEVS. I do think they are missing the boat in a lot of ways—-they need to jump in and mingle with the roomful of Saab owners. There is so much they could be doing to make a splash, welcome Saab enthusiasts to their world—-basically make friends with us. It’s astonishing that so far, they have been so aloof. I am hopeful that maybe they were just waiting for the deal to close as a formality—-and that they will now get out in front of this and make good things happen—on the drawing board, in the factory—-but also with relationships with Saab owners and Saab lovers. There is so much potential to be tapped—-that I was confident Mahindra or maybe even Youngman would have milked to the maximum—-that NEVS hasn’t scratched the surface on yet. Let’s hope they now jump in with both feet.
dcpattie said on September 4, 2012
I’m going to toss out a few questions/thoughts that I do not claim to know the answers for:
When GM issued new shares of stock (i.e., the “New GM”) did they still honor warranties for cars sold under “old” GM? How about Chrysler?
What about when Ford sold Jag/Land Rover to Tata…did Tata honor the old warranties? Also how about Volvo to Geely or the sale of Aston Martin…were warranties upheld?
Or how about when BMW purchased Rolls or VW with their acquisitions (Bentley and others)?
I think in most of these situations the answer is actually yes, warranties were upheld. Not because their old models are or are not part of their current operations but because these companies (and the countries they operate within) understand that you don’t want to alienate customers. I have to aim some of this disappointment at the administrators overseeing the sale, IMO no responsible government would allow for such a blatant violation of basic customer rights.
Angelo V. said on September 4, 2012
Very interesting observation/comparisons. I suspect that most definitely, the companies you mentioned honored warranties. But in none of those cases did an outside company step in to purchase a bankrupt corporation. The closest might be FIAT’s takeover of Chrysler—-but remember that the U.S. government showered GM and Chrysler with billions of dollars to make it possible for them to continue operations, which I assume would include honoring customer warranties. In this case—-no such “luck.” I agree with you or I should say share negative feelings with you toward the Bankruptcy Administrators/Receivers, who I feel failed miserably in their task. My belief is that they took too long to decide—-then made the wrong decision. That’s making certain assumptions since I wasn’t there to review everything and read all bids. But the way it was reported here—-more viable businesses were fighting for this company—-businesses that I think would have provided a better long term chance for Saab to thrive for years to come. Hopefully, NEVS will be a pleasant surprise to me and many others—-with any luck at all, they will evaluate market conditions and continually modify their business plan to position themselves for success—-they might find that they need to sell gas engined cars as they help create the demand for EVs. They might find that to make enough profits early—they need to sell cars in North America as soon as possible. If they find these realities in their travels and can react quickly enough, they have a chance.
TonymacUK said on September 4, 2012
Agree, it would be a good PR move.
Tim said on September 4, 2012
Check out the private message I sent you. Saab Parts AB is legally responsible for the warranty of your car!
LG Aero said on September 4, 2012
Tim,
Why would not want to support he very people who support this site and frankly put their money on the line for Saab?
You will not ask a question because you personally do not believe that there is an obligation of the new owner of the brand to support and maintain the customers of that brand. Then you maintain the parts division has responsibilities for warranties, but respond only with a private message ?
Let us clear the air on this entire issue and put it on the table where it belongs. If Saab takes “no” action they are soiling their own nest. If they at least address it then perhaps a reasonable course to maintain owner loyalty and support not to mention public relations for potential future , can be established.
If you won’t ask, well at least we have and if in fact NEVS / SAAB is reading these forums something can happen !
Angelo V. said on September 4, 2012
LG: It’s also possible that NEVS has analyzed this—-and decided that since they won’t be focused on current SAAB owners for several years at least—-it’s simply not worth their trouble and investment to protect SAAB’s image with the current crop of customers. If their ambition is to focus on Chinese customers with the first round of vehicles—-EVs—-they might be writing off the tens of thousands of Saab owners that exist now. They might have also calculated that the people who won’t forgive them—-owners of 2010 and 2011 Spyker Saabs—–are not numerous enough to matter. I see this as another miscalculation. If they EVER intend to pitch product as the current Saab community again (i.e. if they ever decide to sell cars outside of China or other new markets) I think it would be a relatively small investment to make good on the warranties on these cars. It’s not a huge production run we’re talking about—-and not only would it buy amazing goodwill with the owners of those cars like DCPattie, but it would also show the rest of us with GM era and other older Saabs—-a real commitment to a future with us.
mrrun2fast said on September 4, 2012
I find NEVS response to previous warranties as very perplexing and troubling. They may not be legally responsible for the warranties, but it’s the right thing to do.
Angelo – I think you hit the nail on the head… they really don’t care about the existing Saab owners / community. You would think they would want to keep the small, but dedicated customer base.
I’m happy that the factory will stay open for the workers,but I’m not sure this is Saab anymore… they have moved onto a new direction / customer base. Perhaps this site should be called NEVSUNITED.
Tim said on September 4, 2012
NEVS have never made a response regarding warranties… so I’m not really sure where you get your information?
And no, Saab Automobile AB died on December 19th 2011 and along with it all the commitments and agreements including warranties.
NEVS is a new company which has bought the assets and will once again revive the auto-brand Saab, but the company Saab Automobile AB no longer exists…
Tim said on September 4, 2012
Check out the latest post here on SU please!
JerseySaab said on September 3, 2012
Sounds pretty positive overall, we’ll have to see what they actually do, of course, as talk is cheap. (We all know that here!) I frankly don’t give a rat’s behind about the “environmental” aspects of NEVS’ plans as I consider the “green” movement to be a sham. What counts is whether NEVS can build and sell cars that are actually affordable and practical for enough people to use. Anything else is just smoke and mirrors.
Since Saab AB licensed the use of their name we have to presume that they’re at least satisfied these guys have a shot at succeeding, I’m sure they don’t want to see the Saab name sullied by another bankruptcy.
Angelo V. said on September 3, 2012
I agree with you. If an electric car can be everything I need and want in a car, at a price I can afford, I’d love for it to be a Saab. If there are compromises I can’t live with or an insane price—-all because of enviromental fanatics, all bets are off.
Tim said on September 3, 2012
If you read the full text you’ll see that NEVS have not closed the door on hybrid technology, the current business-plan calls for EV’s to start off with, we’ll see what happens with Generation 2 of NEVS Saab cars! =)
Carlo A said on September 3, 2012
Tim any news about Jason C please?
PS: I understand the first vehicle will be based on the current 9-3 but it will be completely from an aesthetic point of view different from the current 9-3.
Am I correct?
Any chances for it to be based on Jason’s drawings?
Tim said on September 3, 2012
They wouldn’t tell me much about what they have in mind of course but they did tell me that it would be a new car based on the current 9-3 with new technology.
The design that JC made for the next gen 9-3 has been bought by Spyker so we will not see that design wearing a Saab logotype, it will become a spyker car.
Carlo A said on September 3, 2012
OK thanks
Interesting the Spyker part …..
scand said on September 3, 2012
When did spyker do that?
Did they buy it from the receiver?
Tim said on September 3, 2012
I was mis-informed. I have posted a correction on the main page now!
Bernard said on September 3, 2012
Carlo,
Electric cars have very different cooling requirements compared to internal combustion cars. Consider the rule of thumb that 1/3 of drag is caused by cooling systems (radiators, front openings, under-bonnet airflow). It makes sense to re-shape the body and take advantage of the different cooling requirements.
JC’s design was for a gasoline/diesel car, so it wouldn’t be optimal for an electric car.
Angelo V. said on September 4, 2012
What about hybrids like the Honda Civic and Chevy Malibu, among others—-they are exactly the same shape as the gas engined variants. How do those fit in?
Bernard said on September 4, 2012
Hybrids have internal combustion engines, so they still need lots of cooling.
Also, pedestrian safety concerns (and statutes) have led automakers away from putting engines directly beneath the hood (bonnet). That’s why there are very few modern cars with sleek front ends. Obvioulsy, electric drivetrains can be packaged differently.
Angelo V. said on September 4, 2012
Think back to the old Saab 92. Would that shape work well as an EV? Could you imagine the sensation if NEVS dusted off the mid-1960s era 92 design—-same size in fact—-and put an electric powertrain in it, and sold it at a low price? A very basic car—-uncluttered inside and without an overabundance of technological crap littering the dashboard—-big speedo and a few other smaller gauges, basic materials, low price? I could really get behind something like that. It would be a true EV rebirth of Saab—-a nod to all of us that they have Saab in their blood.
3cyl said on September 3, 2012
For those of us used to traditional SAABs, will NEVS offer the whine of a Turbo spooling up (or maybe for us old timers, the erratic two stroke
exhaust note) as an option?
Angelo V. said on September 4, 2012
No, but for the adventurous among us, standard equipment might just include an unpredictable electric range with no gas powered back up. Range might be determined by things like ambient temperature, options being used like heat and stereo—–and a very good option might be membership in an automobile club who could tow said product back home so it could be plugged in to recharge.
3cyl said on September 4, 2012
No need to be negative. Until battery technology improves it simply means sitting on your on your hands and humming your favorite songs when driving in cold conditions.
Trued said on September 3, 2012
Since Saab AB gives NEVS the right to use the name I am convinced that the business plan etc. is in good standings. Saab AB does not want to have their name dragged around in the gutter again. Finally some good news after many months of darkness. Also I am happy for the Trollhättan people if this project/company gets air under the wings and soars to the skies.
Carlo A said on September 3, 2012
Good point…. they must have done their serious due-diligence!
Trued said on September 3, 2012
I saw a picture of a 9-3 hatchback just for a second at a press conference last week. Was that the “Phoenix”? I was at the evening news at TV4 or SVT, I can not recall which one.
100%Saab said on September 3, 2012
18 months is about right for me.
saabyurk said on September 3, 2012
I am hoping that, with the withdrawal of Japanese Sun Investment, they still have adequate funding in place to develop the next generation SAAB without having to resort to loans.
I am very glad that they plan on immediate world-wide distribution and hope they can save many Saab dealers.
And I accept the no news until they announce it as a good policy. I think one of the Spyker era problems was the Dilbert management style of bragging about upcoming models when they needed buyers for the current models. I know that caused me to wait for the new model for myself.
The vibes right now are good. Good luck!
Eleven said on September 3, 2012
This is great, I sat in my 2011 9-3 a month or so back, and asked myself a serious question “Can Saabs be electric” http://bit.ly/QfW4Xn
Reading this post, I think they can, but above all, I hope the essence of Saab remains, if so, I’ll be quite ready to add another Saab to my collection in 2 years.
Thorfinn said on September 3, 2012
For me one of the most positive aspects is the fact that the deal was resolved IN CASH – so less of the agonising hunting around for investment that sadly characterised the previous regime. Sounds like a pretty serious, professional outfit. We must all be at least a little more hopeful today.
Angelo V. said on September 3, 2012
Thorfinn: I am in agreement with you—–hopefully the cash stream will continue to flow when inevitable dry spells are encountered. The fact that they are out of the gate in a healthy way is very encouraging. I still think it’s a grave error to go a 100% EV route—-that just gives away too many potential sales and income from gas powered cars. If this stalls in a few years—-they just can’t sell enough to pay the bills—-I think we will look back at the decision to not offer both EVs/hybrids and gas/diesel as the reason this failed. Again, in so many parts of the world, the customer base prefers traditional gas engined cars and they are walking away from those potential sales. Too bad. For my part—-if a future Saab EV is affordable and desireable, I will consider having one but will also realize I need another car—-petrol powered—-for the applications the EV can’t fulfill. All that said, GOOD LUCK NEVS!
dave said on September 3, 2012
I liked what I read. Now I’m hopeful again.
baas900i said on September 3, 2012
interesting…nevs deserve the chance to rebuild saab or whatever they will call it…alas no griffin…
Angelo V. said on September 4, 2012
No need for the griffin. SAAB is just fine.
RS said on September 3, 2012
Zero emission vehicles… wouldn’t it be more reasonable to ‘just’ be the best in business while EV’s are maturing to be good enough for everyone? NEVS won’t save the world by not selling clean diesels while the Germans are taking over the very same markets in the U.S. and making billions offering all kind of engine alternatives.
Does 0 emission mean returning to the 9000′s engine management? Hasn’t Saabs been cleaning the fumes of other cars for decades already. *joke*
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KgH6WT1paU
tianalfred said on September 3, 2012
I called Johan Kai Jiang last week, and he said he was in Japan to talk “something”. I believe this has close relations with Sun Investment’s being kickout, which is an prerequisite for China state owned money to come in? Now NEVS is a grandson subsiday of China State Grid, a money rich state-owned company. Is that Why NEVS paid all in Cash and become 100% controlled by China NME?
Tim said on September 3, 2012
To be honest, at least from my point of view, knowing where the money originates doesn’t make me a happier Saab customer. What I need to know is that the company produces and are able to deliver upon commitments.
NEVS is 100% owned by National Modern Energy Holding Ltd and that is the owner, anything more than that is not really relevant, at least to me…
tianalfred said on September 3, 2012
1.NME is only offshore shell company and the source of money matters much in terms of the future of e-saab cars. You know, Jiang’s business on biomass generation is not profitable and if china state-owned money come in to acquire saab,then NEVS saab may become one of state-owned subsidary.
2. Really can Never agree on this statement “the country which is most likely to have the largest sales is China due to its highly developed infrastructure to support electric cars.” What i can say is that THEY MAY NOT UNDERSTAND CHINA AND not clear what is happening in CHina on the infrastructure of electric vehicles in china.
Tim said on September 3, 2012
Whatever, I’m pretty sure that these guys have done their homework… otherwise this will be a very short story…
Please refrain from speculation on what the Chinese state owns and does not own. Its not something anyone of us can confirm anyway so the speculation is in the end completely pointless!
74StingSaab said on September 3, 2012
Forgive me for asking what might be a simple question … but… could the 1.9 Tdi still be used in the 9-3 platform without GM meddling?
Could/ would NEVS run this alongside the EV platform and still give us a petrol engine if they wanted to?
Tim said on September 3, 2012
They are only interested in EV cars right now, all other engines are controlled by GM and are thus not able to be used…
GM always controlled the rights to the powertrains and Saab simply used GM as a supplier, Saab never had any rights to the powertrain system of GM.
74StingSaab said on September 3, 2012
damn, OK. =(
100%Saab said on September 3, 2012
Kinda makes it simple then.
SaabKen said on September 3, 2012
But the new SAAB could use this, no ? [grin]
http://www.saabisti.fi/tag/v8/
http://www.saabisti.fi/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/saab-v8-motor.jpg
Carlo A said on September 3, 2012
Fantastic I want one for my 9-3 …………..
RS said on September 3, 2012
What a shame they have to turbo-charge it in order to make it ‘green’. LOL
Piet-Hein S. said on September 3, 2012
maybe they still have the blueprints of the old B20*/23*-engines.
cut those engines in half, put a turbo on and there you are: a Saab ‘twin-air turbo’ engine.
just a thought…
terry9000k said on September 3, 2012
The 204/234 engine design is now owned by BAICs.
This 202×2 engine must be enormous & very thirsty, everything NEVs Saab does not stand for.
tianalfred said on September 3, 2012
Really Curious that Muller is happy about this deal so far. WE ALL KNOW THAT SPYKER and Youngman’s last deal is to produce Spyker cars on the basis of Phoenix????? remembered Youngman should pay 2.3m euros 7days after Aug 27, it’s TODAY. Any one got any news about Youngman’s payment??//
Tim said on September 3, 2012
Well he is happy that the former employees will get their jobs back.
Rune said on September 3, 2012
A thought just struck me. In the past we have discussed “the SAAB wave” and the way our community goes the extra mile to help out fellow SAABers. Personally I have enjoyed the hospitality of a couple of fellow SAABers on my drive through Europe last year.
Well… Battery problem solved! Just plot a route that takes you past the house of a known SAAB enthusiast, knock on the door (charging cord in hand) and ask about the weather (or what else you use to strike up a conversation).
I am only half joking.
This could be the next big thing and something I am tempted to try out for myself. My only concern would be Greece and Turkey, because I did not see/encounter many SAABs there (I did not look for any JAS Gripen though).
Anyway, time to look forward and get ready for the new SAABs!
theSandySaab said on September 3, 2012
There’s (could be) an app for that….
Great idea, why not have an app that updates constantly, with Saab freaks willing to lend an outlet to a fellow Saab EV driver? Or have it as an GPS add-o, like POI channel.
Data like watts, number of connectors, payment, nearby accommodation & food facilities, etc could be specified as well. All to help range anxiety and create a good opportunity to socialize with like minded Saab nuts.
Yes or no? What do you think…?
Dave said on September 3, 2012
Have diesel powered SAAB, will pull E-SAABs.
hah, that might actually make for a great bumpersticker :p
julie@KellySAAB said on September 4, 2012
I love this idea, SandySAAB. I have always found our brands drivers to be some of the warmest most hospitable folks around and I bet the majority would be proud to be on this new support list. In fact I am excited about the prospect of it and getting to meet more friendly SAAB faces! Free Hugs and Electric in Lancaster, PA~
terry9000k said on September 4, 2012
Or of course:
http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=london+trolley+bus+images&qpvt=london+trolley+bus+images&FORM=IGRE#x0y0
Thylmuc said on September 4, 2012
Believe it or not, that it presently considered for lorries on German motorways. Whic, if you think about it, makes more sense than for passenger cars.
xelav said on September 3, 2012
Sounds very reasonably , good interview . I’ll
Keep up the fait in a good outcome. I’m ultra happy that the name Saab remains alive . I’m interested in those electric engines. Are they homemade or is there a factory who fabricates them for all ev’s? What about the power they deliver, is there a lot to choose from or has every future Saab ev the same hp/kw? And what in an electric engine makes that it delivers more power? Anyway we’ll learn in the near future. Thanks timr for offering your day for this interview !
EuroDriver said on September 3, 2012
Young ideologues are spearheading the NEVS operation? Well I’m glad they finally got things going at Saab, still not too thrilled about the idea of EV Saabs. But who knows, only time and good engineering will tell. Best of luck! To celebrate I’m going to take a spin to Ikea’s cafe!
bpsorrel said on September 3, 2012
This thread is good – I’m cautiously optimistic for the future of EV Saabs. Timing could be perfect for me as I’ve just bought a new Toyota Hybrid and will be ready to jump into a new Saab Hybrid/EV in three or so years time. Fingers crossed!
mrrun2fast said on September 4, 2012
Yeah, I’d be curious of the hybrid technology in Saabs. My wife has a Toyota Prius and we recently drove 800 miles last weekend and we averaged 53.2 MPG. I’d almost hope NEVS launches hybrids before EV given that there’s no support structure for EV.
terry9000k said on September 3, 2012
Now that NEVs appears to be owned by Chinese money, what a waste of time, GM’s interference/refusal all was in the end.
Yes, NEVs may not have ‘all’ of GM’s latest IP, but sure alot of it was stored on Saab’s Computers, etc, so won’t be hard to copy….
Well done GM. you achieved nothing…!!
Hans H said on September 3, 2012
The spectacle “GM achieving nothing” has been going on for at least three decades.
Angelo V. said on September 4, 2012
Yes, if you put the collective brains of GM’s upper management into a small bird—-the bird would fly backwards. These are very silly people in charge at the General—-very slow people in fact, who have really lucked out in life, getting millions of dollars thrown at them in salary and bonuses, and as stated, accomplishing absolutely nothing—-in fact, constantly moving backwards.
USAaber said on September 3, 2012
A very good end to the summer of 2012…
Being in the near-zero-electrical US market, I will gladly wait for a hybrid Saab! (Sterling-hybrid, anyone?)
Our 9-3 MY99 and 9-5 MY02 will last until they become available, no fear. They only have 175k and 125k miles respectively…
Troels, Denmark said on September 3, 2012
Good Luck NEVS! I hope you will take good (which does NOT mean trendy but very well unorthodox ) design, serious as Saab have always done!!!
And keep the integrity so design, marketing and everything reflects the philosophy, ,innovation and non-conform thinking behind – this is the strongest side of Saab and is only found at very few car-manufatures!
Psycho Dave said on September 3, 2012
If they care about us Saab fans why dont they take over Saab Parts that we are so dependent on to get parts?
Ronnie_Rad said on September 3, 2012
As long as Saab Parts is financially okay, and safe, that’s all that matters…right?
I just wish they would cover warranties for all previous 9-3s, since that’s what they’re gonna continue building anyway. Honestly I don’t have that much courage in NEVS, but I will support Saab once they build a car that would fit in my lifestyle. My living situation doesn’t permit an EV, so a Turbo hybrid would be best for me. Maybe one day. Until then pre-NEVS Saabs will be just fine for me.
JH said on September 3, 2012
It would have cost them at least two billion SEK to buy Saab Parts, and I think they’d better spend that money on car development. However, I believe they have an agreement to use Saab Parts’ services and have an option to buy them at a later stage.
KT said on September 3, 2012
Yes i believe that is the case also. I’m sure it was mentioned previously that they would like to buy SAAB parts in a couple of years time.
As you say, it’ doesn’t make financial sense at this time to purchase the parts company. For the meantime it’s in safe hands under the NDO until such times they wish to cash in and sell it.
KT said on September 3, 2012
This is excellent news, it’s been a long time coming!!!
I like what they have said in the interview with you Tim. I was hoping for these statements to come out at some point. The silence over the past few months was deafening and one couldn’t help but be a little concerned. But then the deal wasn’t complete until now so it’s understandable why they wouldn’t want to say too much.
Since i know NEVS do read these comments i would like to share the views some others have. It’s highly commendable that you are going down the EV route and my hat goes off to you!! It’s certainly the way forward and i think it’s the right decision. Having said that, if you are planning global sales from day 1 as you mentioned are your intentions, then i would like to point out that some markets such as here in the UK, don’t have a very good infrastructure for EV’s and sadly it’s not that high up on our governments agenda at the moment. EV’s here tend to be small city run arounds though i have to be honest and say i have barely seen any at all. I’m sure there are other countrys which are in a similar position.
If i could offer any advice to you, it would be to strongly consider also going down the hybrid route. While we aren’t able to commute long distances in EV’s in the UK for example, the hybrid would be a fantastic bridging gap until the electric charging points are at a level to make a long journey viable.
All the best on your new adventure and thank you for investing in the brand we have come to love so much. SAAB is more than just cars or a company, SAAB is a way of life!!
Welcome to our community!
Ronnie_Rad said on September 3, 2012
Did you at least ask him what parts of the sale have not been finalized yet? That’s pertinent information.
kochje said on September 3, 2012
Answers we see so far seem reasonable; I have full faith that this group knows what they want to achieve.
let us judge their products now rather then what has been said so far by others.
Saab up.
Angelo V. said on September 4, 2012
Judge their products when? And how?
JH said on September 3, 2012
This sounds good! I like that they communicate with the Saab community directly and not only “traditional” media.
Regarding the cars, I believe they need some sort of range extender (preferrably a small ethanol engine) or a hybrid model to sell in volumes, at least in Sweden.
peppie said on September 3, 2012
Yes, SAAB will survive.
Looking for somebody in Belgium to start the sales operation ? I am your man !
SaabLife said on September 3, 2012
Guess it’s a little to early to know if there’s any possibility of a North American release?
They said a global distribution, but I could easily see that excluding the United States or just North America in general.
Angelo V. said on September 4, 2012
Sadly, it’s not a little too early to know—-I have a sinking feeling it’s a LOT too early. I hope I’m wrong and I hope when they get their feet under them—-they start promoting this venture the way it should be promoted—-building excitement and confidence in what they are doing. It’s sad to me, and a bit pathetic that the best feeling I’ve had about this was in reading Tim’s interpretations of what could be. That’s Bush League in my opinion. Now that a deal has been struck, I hope NEVS starts getting out in front of this—-talking to the auto press regularly—-getting news tidbits published in the car magazines and online—in short, priming the pump so their products might actually sell. And yes, I hope they include North America in their plans—-still a huge car market and will be an enormous one if the economy turns around soon. I read that the average age of cars on the road is older than it has ever been—-a lot of people are making do with what they have as long as they could—-and it will be like a dam bursting when the the jobs are back and people are confident again—-cars will be one of the strong success stories. Hopefully, NEVS will be positioned to reap the benefits of that—-but if they’re not here—-or if they are here in a sketchy dealer network selling electric cars only—-it will fail.
Undertaker said on September 3, 2012
“And the fact is that Chinese people who can afford a premium car, want a European or American car rather than a Chinese built car, since it has a lot to do with image and feeling”
That’s totally wrong from what I have learn about Chinese, yes they want premium cars from EU or US but they don’t care if the cars, is built in China or EU rather they prefere premium cars built in China or will not dislike cause looks as all other OEMS builts cars in China with great success and that is not only due to import taxes. E.G Chinese people want to buys premium cars from EU and US built in China DOT
Angelo V. said on September 4, 2012
That’s also what I have heard and read. In fact, Washington Post auto writer Warren Brown has been to China and has seen the Buicks built there—-and as of 4-5 years ago, when he visited, the Chinese Buicks were on par with Lexus for fit and finish quality—-better than the Buicks built in Detroit at the time. I think since than, the American made Buicks have improved. But the point is, the Chinese have loved Buicks for decades—-but insisted on Buicks built in China—-and have managed to produce superior quality products. Apple Computers products, considered the gold standard of that industry, are also made in China—-at least some of the products that are priced top of the market around the world. So Undertaker, you are spot-on and I’m not sure about the comments these guys made to Tim—-other than that they are not accurate based on credible sources I have read myself.
lol said on September 3, 2012
Hi Tim,
After the meeting you had with Johan and mattias do you have the same feeling I’ve got that big news are still missing???
Tim said on September 3, 2012
No I don’t actually. For me personally I’m interested in the things I can prove and the issues I can look forward to such as the cars and work-opportunity for my family and friends.
To me, knowing who is behind what and why is more or less pointless because its nothing empirical anyway and I do grant that it announcing a major share-holder or something similar would boost confidence but I think that if NEVS are able to deliver cars as promised, then that will produce more confidence in the brand than any talk will ever do… regardless of what is said…
terry9000k said on September 3, 2012
FAO: Johan and Mattias
EV will be quite, so one thing to consider is aa sound track built into your cars, that use the sounds of a Petrol engined car..
You know, vroom, vroom & all that [that thing Boys do, when sitting in their Father's cars].
Sure there are lots of SU members hat could provide a soundtrack…..
Just a Joke??, I think….!!
Tim said on September 3, 2012
If I get a car like that I want it to play the Top Gun theme constantly!!
terry9000k said on September 3, 2012
I like the ”Rikard and I” bit, sounds better!!
[You know what I mean, Tim]
Thylmuc said on September 4, 2012
I have been working on several patent applications lately that were concerned with approaches for acustical alert(ness) systems for electric cars. You’re too late
Taras said on September 3, 2012
I wanna buy a plug-in 9-3 hybrid convertible!
LG Aero said on September 4, 2012
Taras,
The next generation 9-3 convertible with electric axle was going to be my next car. And that did not have plug in. Let us hope that NEVS/SAAB continues the great Saab convertible tradition !
Ben said on September 3, 2012
Love the thing about quality.
Saabgun said on September 4, 2012
A few weeks ago I was wondering if I was to buy a new car what it should be. I no longer have to wonder my next car will be a SAAB EV. If the futere is green it might as well be SAAB.
Angelo V. said on September 4, 2012
What if the future isn’t green—-but sensible, with well equipped, five star safety, turbocharged petrol alternatives at prices tens of thousands of dollars less than the EVs that thus far, haven’t been able to sell?
jond said on September 4, 2012
“Japanese and Chinese engineers are on their way to Trollhättan to set up workshops and start developing the next generation drive-trains for what is to become NEVS first Saab,”
So, Saab is now a company financed and owned by the Chinese Government with a brief to make EVs and with the guts of the car – the drive-train – designed and made by Japanese and Chinese engineers. So, what will make the new vehicle a Saab; the body panels?
I wish NEVS all the very best of good fortune, but will wait for at least the second, and probably the third, generation vehicles before believing in them sufficiently to commit.
Angelo V. said on September 4, 2012
I think we overlooked a good question Tim could have posed to the guys: “When, oh when will you hire a team to rework your website? Since so much commerce is generated today by corporate websites, do you see fit to make radical changes/improvements to the NEVS site to build excitement for your new products?”
Chris Hansel said on September 4, 2012
Great news Tim: I love the fact that they reached out to you as soon as the purchase news hit the wire. That is an excellent sign of how they will operate in the future. One question, I didn’t see addressed, as I would guess it is to early, is this ” what will happened to the dealers around the world, and here in the US, who are still operating” such as Jason? Any ideas on that?
rafael guerra said on September 4, 2012
GM designed EV1 several years ago and now they introduced the Volt,
Volt is the state of the art vehicle for regular use / mid range in America, Volt – innovation represented US millions and several years in Development / research, I would like to ask: how much money does NEVS is willing to invest in order to produce a better option than Volt
Is only a question…
SaabKen said on September 4, 2012
Very basic updates on NEVS’s site:
http://www.national-ev.se/en/about-us/
“About us
Our aim is to become a leading manufacturer of electric vehicles
We are adding advanced EV technology from Japan and combine Swedish, Japanese and Chinese engineering
We will initially focus marketing and sales on the China market, because of China’s progressive initiatives in sustainable transportation solutions
We will match Swedish automobile design and manufacturing experience with Japanese EV technology. We plan to launch our first EV, based on the Saab 9-3, in 2014.
We are recruiting the best talents to implement our business plan
Good business relations with previous and future suppliers are a priority
Owners and management
National Electric Vehicle Sweden AB is wholly owned by National Modern Energy Holdings Ltd (NME Holdings).
NME Holdings Ltd. was founded in 2004 by the principal owner Mr. Kai Johan Jiang. The company is incorporated in the British Virgin Islands, managed from Hong Kong. NME Holdings Ltd. is the majority owner of State Power Group, a Beijing-based private enterprise that pioneers renewable energy in China.
State Power Group operates 28 biomass power plants and develops technology for wind power, efficient energy storage solutions and biofuel boilers. The group employs over 7,000 skilled professionals.”
Guess they won’t be “wasting” tons of $ on expensive marketing/PR fluff and personnel
Angelo V. said on September 5, 2012
Yeah, wow. Are they aware of the power of the internet—-the power of a real website? The power of communication? That line about China being a leader in “sustainable transportation solutions” is so statist too. Who exactly is the puppetmaster of these pawns?
If they’re serious about building an international customer base and being a serious player in the car business, they need to get cracking on developing a real website—-YESTERDAY. Tim has a lot on his plate, but honestly, should probably offer some “gratis” help so things are less embarassing for them.
pekko a said on September 4, 2012
how about M&M rumours?
Angelo V. said on September 4, 2012
The potential marriage of M&M and Saab might have been too good to be true. I’ll now go back to hoping for M&M to come to the U.S. the hard way—-without a dealership network in place, without a familiar name attached. Their products are good—-they would capture a niche that no one else has in the U.S. They and Saab could have lifted each other. Sadly, the Receivers were forced to an agenda, or chose an agenda that revolved around electric cars for the Chinese market. I’m not sure if NEVS has the good sense to still include the bidder that made the most sense in their own plan.
pekko a said on September 4, 2012
I especially mean those rumours where NEVS is planning to colloborate with M&M for hybrid/petrol/Diesel cars based on phoenix…
Angelo V. said on September 4, 2012
Yes—and I guess my last sentence of the response above sums up my best guess—-not sure if those rumors were real or if they were part of a “wish list” we had. If the rumors were based on something real—-will NEVS really want to share the spotlight with someone who was bidding against them and who many feel should have won out? Egos are something that could get in the way of good common sense.
bilen said on September 4, 2012
New exterior, not just a facelift. Am I interpreting that correct.
It sounds like a optimistic time goal that they will recruit people, change the drivetrain and the exterior and have the car in production in 18 months.
Ben said on September 4, 2012
So what position do these two guys hold at NEVS?
ryanonsrc said on September 4, 2012
Wow, I was actually out with friends for the labor day weekend here in the USA (wireless signal was bad much of the time so I didn’t see much of the latest great news that came out).
Now catching up on the details, I am excited to see how everything is unfolding now! We are in for an interesting ride folks, for sure.
Carma said on September 4, 2012
I know it too soon now, but I begin to look forward to the moment when the factory starts up again. It appears that old Igor has done a good job collecting dead bodyparts from graveyards and morgues and such.
Now the old doctor will try to assemble those parts, switch on the power, and if we are lucky, dr Frankenstein will be able to cry out loud:
“It’s aliiiiiiiive!”
And maybe the monster will survive on it’s own this time. But the mediamob will soon be out there, I guess. Flaming torches, pitchforks and all, ready for a lynching.
The monster will need all the friends he can find. Not only blind ones.
Trued said on September 4, 2012
Here are the two Springtime employees that works for NEVS featured in the article:
http://springtime.nu/medarbetare/mattiasbergman
http://springtime.nu/medarbetare/johanandersson
RS said on September 4, 2012
Trued, I thought they where something like NEVS middle managers. Not trying to be disrespectful but if this is a two man show shouldn’t we be getting information straight from the horses mouth or won’t they bother with something like SU.
This meeting was similar to interviewing any company’s ad/marketing agency unless they’ve been working directly with the business plan themselves?
Tim said on September 4, 2012
Both guys are full time employees of NEVS as stated in the article, please read it…! =)
RS said on September 4, 2012
That’s great if they are now, but originally they must have been consultants hired from Springtime.
NEVS didn’t even exist 6 months ago. If they speak as NEVS management/decision makers working with Jiang and Trogen then they have the credibility needed. Maybe they should update their contact info to NEVS page instead…
Tim said on September 4, 2012
RS, you should really read the article before commenting… NEVS has existed since January 2011.
RS said on September 5, 2012
I’m sure the project has started last year when SWAN was in trouble but the company in itself didn’t. http://www.allabolag.se/5568897556/verksamhet
Lets lets just leave it at that shall we. I’m still glad you did the interview with them.
PS. I hope they arrived in Saabs.
Tim said on September 5, 2012
They arrived in Saab 340′s…
RS said on September 5, 2012
Didn’t know they have a runway at the factory? LOL.
At least they didn’t turn up in Volvo 340′s
Angelo V. said on September 5, 2012
Tim: Technically, legally, you might be right about when they were formed—-I’m sure you are. But you understand his point—-practically no one heard of this group up until just a few months ago. Did you know about them? Has there been anything reported in the business press about NEVS? If you do word searches, are there older articles about them from 2011? This is one of those “If a tree falls in the woods and no one is there to hear it—-did it make a sound?” Did NEVS exist if practically no one KNEW they existed? Answer is yes—-but so what?
hughw said on September 4, 2012
I’ve kind of had this discussion already with Jeff, but like some of you, there will not, can not, be an EV in my garage. I have no doubt that someday in the future, EV (or maybe fuel cells) will be what everyone is driving. But that’s not going to happen until battery technology and battery charging, and perhaps battery swapping, allows essentially unlimited range with short (5-10minute) recharges. Sure, an EV today might be great for someone who commutes no more than 50km to work daily and their weekend drives are not much longer. But I suspect that there are many of us that need a substantially longer range. My middle daughter “commutes” every weekend with her family from Rhode Island to their condo at Sugerbush in Vermont, a distance of 450km, and chances are she’s running around doing errands before she leaves, or they arrive and drive another 20km to go somewhere for dinner. And don’t even think about cramming 2 teenagers and 2 adults and a black lab along with stuff for the weekend in a 9-3 size car. We travel every other weekend from New York to Martha’s Vineyard again a distance of close to 500km. Would either of us be satisfied in a rental, or group car, for our long trips? Absolutely no. These are the trips that we want to be in a vehicle that is safe, is familiar to us, and that we enjoy driving. In short, our Saab, our whatever we have chosen, not what Hertz or Avis decides to give us.
So I will enjoy driving my 2010 9-3SC now with 90,000km for another few years and see how the market shakes out. God, I wish there will be a Saab in my future, but it won’t be an EV. And I don’t think that I’m alone.
LG Aero said on September 4, 2012
Hughw,
Spot on. You are not alone and the market has spoken very loudly about the necessity for vehicles that can make long distance trips.
I got a chuckle from the statement that the Chinese market was the primary goal because they had a better electrical infrastructure. Yes it so good most factories have to have generators to deal with frequent power failures of the grid. And of course every home is already supplied with appx 40 kW of service as is the case in the US. .
Angelo V. said on September 4, 2012
I agree. If they sell a Saab EV cheap enough—-I’d consider one as a weekend runabout for local errands/short trips. I think for most people in North America at least, we’re not close enough to the right technology for people to want one of these as a primary car—-and if the price is over 25K, it most definitely becomes the primary car in most households. I’m not asking for a Tata Nano, but for this to make any sense at all to most buyers—-it would need to be a relatively inexpensive secondary car. Exceptions, yes—-people in urban areas with no long trips planned on weekends—-and they could rent gas powered cars for vacations—-would be a good market perhaps.
adams said on September 4, 2012
Well said, Hugh.
saaburban said on September 4, 2012
WoW……
NEVS are the opposite from both GM & Spyker.
Hopefully they have started hiring the marketing guys first, so that they can analyze what the brand Saab stands for, truly making cars that are inspired by jetplane design, technology and lightweight materials.
If the mission is to build a premium EV brand, with focus on constant growth from nothing to a production at 300 000 cars (limit for the trollhattan factory), we will be in for an exciting ride.
In my opinion the ‘brand’ is key to everything.
By making cars in Sweden, NEVS has got the ok to the Saab name.
By calling the EVs Saab, the new cars have a design tradition to
continue, and it is this legacy that will make the NEVS cars premium,
I guess to cut cost, the development will partially be done in Asia and partially be done by the ex-saabengineers, that are running their own consultancies in R&D, quality, safety and testing.
Although the cars will roll out from the Saab factory with a made in Sweden stamp on them, most of the components will be manufactured in China.
Angelo V. said on September 4, 2012
Seriously, they jumped into the big leagues and have to conduct themselves as such. Do you realize that right now—-as I write this—-Ford, BMW, Nissan—–have people on staff whose only job it is, to try to predict what car colors will be popular 5 years from now, or try to SHAPE what colors will be popular? These people are working with desgners/engineers, trying to figure out the body shapes that are upcoming years from now, and which colors will look best on those cars. They work with sociologists and interior designers to figure out trends—-a huge stash of money is invested in this. Do you just figure, “We’ll get to that later—-we’ll do black, white, silver, gray and red—-and figure the rest out a few months before we go to production? No, not if you want to succeed. I’m just piggybacking on what you said—-hiring marketing guys first, understanding the history of the brand—-the rest of what you said—-I agree with most of it. The devil is in the details—-so far in this process, not enough “public exchange of information” has been done by this group—-at least not that I can identify. Hopefully that will now change.