Doomsday Prophecies

Stories about the end of the world seem to be pretty addictive for humans in general. Just like it was read out of Nostradamus’ writings before, some clever people interpreted the Maya calendar in a way that on the 21st of December this year the end of the world will be there. Funny enough, those who are really involved, the direct descendants of the Maya, get slightly upset because that date does not represent the end – on the contrary, it marks the beginning of the next calendar period to fulfill the old saying that in every end there is a new beginning.

I feel like that can be transferred to what in some corners of the internet is said about Saab. We know very little about the plans NEVS has, which is no surprise at all. They are in the process of setting things up again and at least to me it is no surprise that they do not want to make all plans on their future portfolio public. Honestly, when do you get to know all the details about other manufacturer’s new models? At the launch or maybe a few days before. So then why should NEVS then come up with full specs of something that is not even in road tests today?

As I already stated some time before a business plan, especially at start ups, is more like a rough route used to set aims and calculate financing than a completely accurate drawind of how every day in the company is used. So I feel that it is wise not to make it too public. With SWAN especially the Swedish press has proven that they will jump on every detail that is changed and make the change look negative. Why would you expose yourself to that.

Another point that is highly criticized is the fact that part of the engineerng is coming from Japan and China. To my best knowledge this refers to battery and electric drivetrain technology that is acquired where the best tech is available at the moment. I can see absolutely no need to develop something that is already available from a contractor. It would only cost money that can be spend better on other fields. When the current 9-3 was introduced Saab got to know what it does to profit if you try to develop every screw by yourself. No need to make that mistake again.

I won’t go into every little negative point that was mentioned somewhere, it would exceed my patience and lead nowhere at all. But in the end the personal judgement of NEVS is at this point in time highly dependent on everybody’s subjective feelings. Which is clear because there is just not enough hard facts available. But instead of turning that into something negative I’d prefer people to be more neutral and open.

I can see the NEVS route and get their idea behind it, I can even see the opportunities of making this a great business. Of course I am not convinced that the electric path is the only way to go in the future but it is a part of what is needed to sustain personal mobility.

The Saab we knew may be gone but Saab is not dead. NEVS in a way follow the Saab quest for cutting edge technology. Turbo engines used to be a unique Saab feature, this uniqueness was watered dramatically through the general downsizing of engines. The quest for a new unique selling point is under way. There is no point to judge NEVS now. Wait for their first product to hit the market. Judge then.

nixschel
Member
3 years 10 months ago
Till, I cannot but wholeheartedly agree. The mere fact Saab Parts last week did send a very positive message into the world, has been completely snowed under by an avalanche of negativity. It seems the boardroom of Saab is rather full. All those who carry the brand close to their hart seem to be at that table. As stated before, to me a Saab is a Saab when it says Saab on the front and back. Full stop. Lamenting about where technology comes from, is not only very shortsighted, but also shows a lack of knowledge on what Saab did… Read more »
dcpattie
Member
3 years 10 months ago
Did I miss something this week? Last time I checked, folks on the left-side of the Atlantic that supported Saab at the most important time are getting hosed (that’s Canadian for screwed over) by Saab Parts. Have you read in the 9-4 “Groups” Forum about the fellow with a $4,000 repair bill or in the “Post Discussions” Forum about the person with a $7,000 repair bill for her 2010 9-5 Aero. NEVS will say time-and-again, this is not our problem…its Saab Part’s issue. OK, but don’t dare try to re-enter the NA market. The reality is NEVS just cannot divorce… Read more »
Mailr
Member
3 years 10 months ago
I agree with you, NEVS needs to actively maintain continuity of the Saab brand. There are actually quite a lot of people that aren’t aware of Saabs bankruptcy, and driving that point home is not a good thing. NEVS should probably get involved in supporting the current cars to uphold a sense of continuity, to avoid the question “what if this company also goes bankrupt” from being considered; you don’t want people to shy away from the brand, like fool me once…, because of problems incurred by a possible future bankruptcy. Goodwill cost for old customers might be cheap PR.
Jeff
Member
3 years 10 months ago

And here I thought most people were coming around to NEVS? I guess I’ve been living in an alternate reality 🙂

Ken H
Member
3 years 10 months ago

With regards to the Mayan calendar, I am still considering if I should quit my work and just live a crazy life for the last month…

As for NEVS and their plans, I am of the opinion that the market is there and if played correctly NEVS can find a foothold there. I’d probably consider an EV too, as my daily driving would fit the bill.

MariusGTV
Member
3 years 10 months ago

Eh, sorry but what was the point of this post?

Jeff
Member
3 years 10 months ago

Go read Swade’s blog 😛

MariusGTV
Member
3 years 10 months ago
I did read Swades blog as I regulary do. I don’t think his interview or commets were particularly negative, just realistic and interesting. I think at lot of people, both those who are fans of Saab and want to see Saab back and those who are just general petrolheads are looking and waiting with interest to see what NEVS produce. I don’t think however just because some are not jumping up and down with excitement and singing the praises of a company they know very little about is reason to say they are naysayers or doomsday prophets! It strikes me… Read more »
phermansson
Member
3 years 10 months ago
I find Swades article to be written with a lot of skepticism and he makes his point pretty clear that he still longs for the days of VM’s Saab, well we all do, but at one point or another one simply has to let go and move on. Saab Cars today is in no way a chinese company as Swade claims it to be, it is owned and operated by a Swedish company and having only Swedish citizens in the executive board. In essence the company is more Swedish now than it was a year ago… Saab is absolutely not… Read more »
Jeff
Member
3 years 10 months ago

Agreed, Tim. I think the main problem here is that we’re not going to get all the concrete or real answers that NEVS is prepared to give from their sole press guy. Their determinations about what business model will inevitably work for them is clearly fluidly changing right now (given their willingness to restart production of the 9-3 line with ICE). Whatever their plan is now may not be their plan in two years if the market shifts underneath their feet.

phermansson
Member
3 years 10 months ago

Exactly, as I have been saying from the beginning, we are not entitled to any inside information from NEVS… sadly very few listen… =(

Jeff
Member
3 years 10 months ago

Or apparently read our articles before commenting 😛

Angelo V.
Member
3 years 10 months ago
Jeff: That’s probably very accurate and it’s very fair. I think we know that in life, things can change. Goals might not be met. Plans can shift based on things in or out of our control. But honestly, considering the gravity of this—-the size of the former company, the worldwide activity they once owned and presumably the competence/ability of the new owner—-I’ve never seen anything in business like this—-a purchase of a large concern and for for months, no effort to build enthusiasm, reach out to the core—-talk up themselves and their future products. It’s like being stuck in quicksand.… Read more »
Jeff
Member
3 years 10 months ago

Agreed. Mikael needs a staff. Badly. On top of that, there should be more of an effort to preserve the global sales network, even at a purely grassroots, super inexpensive level. That’s a role that even SU could really coordinate and play, and maybe we’ll be able to do something like that sooner than later.

MariusGTV
Member
3 years 10 months ago
I didn’t say Saab were dead. I said ‘that’ Saab were dead. The Saab we knew and loved. I also said that ‘maybe’ a new Saab will come along and ‘maybe’ we will grow to love it as we did the old Saab. Face it Tim, Saab as we knew it are dead. Now perhaps NEVS who bought the assets (and only the assets) of Saab and have the right to call the product they may produce in the future ‘Saab’ will have some of the Saab dna and ethos. And perhaps it won’t. Who knows. For me; I hope… Read more »
MariusGTV
Member
3 years 10 months ago

Oops. That last sentence should read ‘that they should NOT be branded as being negative’. Typing is not my strong point. Come to think of it, I’m not sure what is!

phermansson
Member
3 years 10 months ago
Sorry Marius I’m not facing anything. To me Saab as we knew it was based in the values of the employees and many of them are on their way back! But I guess we all have our own impression of what Saab was and I guess we shouldn’t force our opinion on others. You are of course free to think what ever you want, but I don’t agree with you and I will never “face it”… I just find it so sad that one of the biggest supporters of Saab ever, acts just like the evening-press did during Saab’s hard… Read more »
Jeff
Member
3 years 10 months ago

Nah, don’t give up Tim. I still love your spirit for Saab and know that pure economics and the core brand values of Saab mean something to NEVS. You get it, you always have, and that’s all that matters.

MariusGTV
Member
3 years 10 months ago

You are right Tim. You are not facing anything.

Let’s agree to disagree and I totally disagree with your last post by the way.

I feel that SU is not what it was back in the day and has become somewhere I feel unwelcome in simply because I might not agree with the opinions of the owners. So I will stop coming here and I wish the owners, bloggers, commentators, advertisers and all who work and support it all the very best for the future.

Ciao.

Cuore Sportivo!

phermansson
Member
3 years 10 months ago

Thank for your input, I hope we can do better in the future, making everyone feel welcome. That is something we have to work on!

scand
Member
3 years 10 months ago

Maybe I missed something, but as a casual reader of both blogs, I didnt see that he personally attacked anyone? I get that he is more skeptical than many here, but that’s ok, isn’t it?

I enjoy reading both Tim’s and Swades writing styles and opinions. It would be a read shame to see a falling out over just a different opinion.

Kiss and make up already, won’t you!

phermansson
Member
3 years 10 months ago
The issue I had with Swade was that he claimed that NEVS received publicity via SU and I had to pay for it… (financially by traveling to Trollhättan and doing the interview)… it was a while back. The rest of the conversation was in private and I offered Swade the opportunity to apologize but he declined… In all honesty I’m so sick of all of this negativity… We’ve been trying time and time again to lift up the spirit to a higher level by believing in NEVS and by creating events where NEVS could broadcast their message directly to the… Read more »
RS
Member
3 years 10 months ago
Tim, sometimes negativity is just constructive criticism. No company can strive unless they can handle or take advantage of opposite opinions. The best thing that has happened the last year was re-hiring of former Saab people but it shouldn’t be your (SU’s) job to do NEVS PR or lift the spirit for them. It’s just that every time Mikael opens his mouth bad things happen as the message to us seems so harsh i.e. EV’s for the Chinese, period. It’s tough, but don’t let it become too personal. Both you and Swade can pat yourselves on the back for playing… Read more »
Artichoke
Member
3 years 10 months ago
I don’t agree with you entirely regarding MG. The MG6 in particular is based on the Rover 75/MG ZT platform and uses identifiably MG Rover technology and running gear. Lo ngbridge employs many hundreds of ex-MG Rover engineers. As for ethos, well, they’re producing what they can sell, as NEVS must do, but the MG6 is an accomplished automobile, despite its imperfections, and doesn’t deserve the bashing the media has given it, in much the same fashion as the VM/NEVS versions of Saab have suffered. I can personally vouch for the MG6, being a Rover 75 owner and having sampled… Read more »
Angelo V.
Member
3 years 10 months ago
Tim: I think the rub (and I say this in a friendly, constructive way, not to be combative) is that for people living thousands of miles away—-our utmost interest in this is cars. Saab cars. So the fact that a company has hired back 100 people is good news, but we’re anxious for products, or news about products, or information about products. And I totally understand that for people in Sweden, particularly cities/towns in and around the factory—-the important thing is employment. I get that and I realize the importance (employment in the U.S. is lousy—-we need jobs too—-and I… Read more »
Jeff
Member
3 years 10 months ago

I really don’t think Tim is guilty of trying to blindly shill for NEVS, I think Tim is guilty of feeling like the only person on the Internet with a voice that recognizes that NEVS is the only hope Saab has of a near term future. He obviously has reservations about the EV1, and he’s mentioned them in comments several times. But I’d rather be rooting for something to succeed and trying to have a voice in its eventual future than constantly trying to pick apart every single move it makes expecting failure.

Angelo V.
Member
3 years 10 months ago
Jeff: Well said. I think my own skepticism dates back to last WInter and early Spring. The Bankruptcy Receivers had several suitors to choose from. Reportedly, Mahindra & Mahindra made an offer. Obviously, I don’t know enough about the bids to know if M&M’s financial offering rivaled NEVS. But the notion that NEVS is the only hope Saab has—-if that is true, it wasn’t true earlier this year. And my frustration is that I think Saab would have stood a better chance of succeeding around the world with a different buyer. That said—–the decision was made and it’s NEVS. For… Read more »
jond
Member
3 years 10 months ago
“Saab Cars today is in no way a chinese company as Swade claims it to be, it is owned and operated by a Swedish company and having only Swedish citizens in the executive board.” Tim, I’m sorry but I don’t think that what you say there is true. When NEVS initially surfaced as an item I did some online research and found that voting control was actually in the hands of an HK company that had been around for only a relatively short period and whose interests were mainly power generation and supply. This latter company has substantial assets (over… Read more »
DUTCH900C
Member
3 years 10 months ago

The only right thing SAAB/NEVS have to do is to listen what the customers want and not only what they see as the best in their way. See also what i wrote about that point in: http://saabsunited.saabklubben.se/2012/11/is-price-the-answer.html .
If SAAB/NEVS is listening to what the customers want, then SAAB/NEVS can get a great future and that is what i’m hoping for.

maanders
Member
3 years 10 months ago
I agree….the question is who does NEVS view as its customers? They have clearly stated that their initial customers will be in China. They hope to be a global brand, but the first emphasis is China. I understand that and that makes sense, I guess. What I am still trying to understand is if the design, spirit and values that will be built into their cars for Chinese customers will also be the design, spirit and values that drew me to Saab cars of the past. I do not have enough information to know the answer to that yet. I… Read more »
Swade
Member
3 years 10 months ago
This is a sad day. Tim and I had a run-in recently over his piece on NEVS but I didn’t realise the fall-out from that would include you, Till, doing a commentary on one of my articles where you couldn’t even mention my name. Are the personalities more important than the Saab content? Please realise that the primary piece we’re talking about here is an interview. It’s not an interpretive piece. It’s me asking questions and then writing down Mikael’s answers. If those answers appear to be comprehensive, vague, incomplete or solid, that’s because they were either comprehensive, vague, incomplete… Read more »
Jeff
Member
3 years 10 months ago
Yes, they’re building “premium cars for the Chinese market,” but I think the main confusion I’m getting here is that you intimate that their primary concern isn’t building a car that has a true Swedish character. I’m not really sure where you’re making the jump that what premium Chinese car buyers want is so different than what made Saab so special Scandinavian to drivers, save a little extra rear seat leg room. That’s my disconnect with your conclusion, no offense intended at all– I’m curious as to what you think the difference is? It’s been established many times before that… Read more »
Swade
Member
3 years 10 months ago
It’s a genuine and fair question, Jeff. No offence taken. Neither you nor I know what the final product will look like or what sort of character it will express. It might well end up being a car that includes all those clever touches that made Saabs special throughout the years. All we can base an initial conclusion on at the moment is what we know. What we know is what they’ve told us. They’ll be building cars primarily focused – very, very focused from my conversation with Mikael – on satisfying the needs of the Chinese market. They’ll be… Read more »
Jeff
Member
3 years 10 months ago
Nah, we believe you. It’s just that some think that your skepticism and uncertainty about what NEVS wants Saab to be may be a step too far. Part of our wait and see approach now is exploring what EVs are capable of, and what Saab’s unique history can contribute to defining their own niche in the segment. Like you say, many traditional Saab customers won’t find their needs met with a Gen 1 EV with a limited range. But the reason why I’m so confident that the EV1 will be the most Saaby Saab as Victor would say for most… Read more »
Angelo V.
Member
3 years 10 months ago
I’m trying to absorb all of this—-but have one comment: The notion that we find out all the details about other manufacturers products at the launch or a few days before—-is rubbish. Okay, let me back up. If you’re covering yourself by saying ALL of the details, fine. But that’s ridiculous. We know A LOT of the details, often a year or more before the launch. I read in automotive publications of timelines from some manufacturers that are several years into the future—-nothing specific or committal, but certainly descriptive of what they are thinking might replace a particular model, moving… Read more »
Jeff
Member
3 years 10 months ago

You’re not hearing or seeing pictures of the car because it doesn’t yet exist in even a final prototype form. It’s really that simple. As for not knowing where or when you’ll see it sold, they’ve told us, it’s going on sale in China in about a year with global deliveries soon after. That’s obviously optimistic.

Angelo V.
Member
3 years 10 months ago
Jeff: Here is an example of what I’d love to hear from the mouth of a NEVS spokesperson (the information is speculative on my part—-the specifics are my point.): “Our intention is to begin selling new Saabs in China first, and then to additional markets—-most of those served by Saab previously, one year later. As the parent company name suggests, electric vehicles will be a big part of our plans. We will be positioned to be the world leader in premium electric vehicles short term and well into the future. We recognize that the majority of buyers today still prefer… Read more »
Jeff
Member
3 years 10 months ago
They can’t say that because they’re just not there yet Angelo. Part of what they’re going through is exactly what Victor was going through two years ago. I remember asking him similar questions at the Spyker gathering in the Catskills in the Fall of 2010, and he just kept saying the same thing back to me: “We need to learn to walk before we can run.” NEVS needs to get their shit together on home turf first, they need to make sure the components, economies of scale, and development staff is in place before they can lay even the groundwork… Read more »
RS
Member
3 years 10 months ago
Till, unfortunately but the infamous phrase ”We haven’t closed any doors” is starting to sound like pure BS to keep the community calm. They have no trouble touting about EV’s in 2020 because that’s what their going to do. Forgetting about the charging issues for a moment. I’m already looking forward to a MY16 OG 9-5 wagon sized EV with the cargo space intact, a 600 km range despite of the weather conditions, 10 year battery warranty (capacity loss not greater than 15%) that can be charged in less than 15 minutes and has a base sticker price of 45.000… Read more »
Jeff
Member
3 years 10 months ago
The problem is that there aren’t 200,000 Chinese people lined up to buy them, and NEVS has to know that. It’s just basic economics. The market for EVs in China is being revised down every month, while the global market, especially the US, is increasing. At the same time, NEVS’s strength is that they have a manufacturing plant on more neutral ground in Sweden to serve the global market than if they were solely based in China. At some point, they’re going to have to face that in order to reach their breakeven they have to shift their strategy to… Read more »
RS
Member
3 years 10 months ago

“They’ve shown that they have access to a cutting edge LFP battery production”

Shown where?

Jeff
Member
3 years 10 months ago

They’re producing LFP batteries with 146 Wh/kg density. That means they have a special way of channeling electrons around the battery that’s even more efficient than the method that MIT licensed to A123 systems. (about 137 Wh/kg) I’ve written articles and comments about it on articles on this site. Maybe you didn’t read them?

RS
Member
3 years 10 months ago

I trust real-life proof when I see them.

A free marketing/PR advice to NEVS:
When they have the EV2 ready (and I trust you Jeff they’ll deliver 😉 ) to drive the car with four passengers and luggage from Trollhättan to Jukkasjärvi with one quick charge at the end of January without pre-heating the car.

U.S. customers might be more convinced by driving around the Talladega race track 400 miles flat out with the AC on without having to stop.

Jeff
Member
3 years 10 months ago
Here’s some fun reading for you. Also, if the car is plugged in waiting to go (as most EVs are right before you take them on a long drive from your house), why wouldn’t it be preheated? That’s the fun part of an EV in the winter, you tell it a few minutes before you’re ready to go that you want it nice and toasty and it heats up for you. As for batteries operating in cold temps, A123 has a nanophosphate process that I’m sure NEVS would love to adapt designed to do exactly what you’re asking. Damn EVs… Read more »
RS
Member
3 years 10 months ago

No pre-heating if you have to rely solely on charging stations.
Lets say you “fill up” the night before and leave it sitting for the next days trip in the cold.
There are lot of places and situations where you just can’t charge high voltage for hours on end.

Jeff
Member
3 years 10 months ago
If you leave it sitting, it’s still plugged in…the car draws the electricity to charge off the grid, not the battery. But maybe if you go camping? Or…? If you’re saying you’re charging it for an hour at a charging station, driving home to your apartment and leaving it on the street, don’t buy a Gen 1 electric car. If you park in a garage or near a charging port, go for it. Really, this is simple. Most people I know, even apartment dwellers, are part of the latter group. Charging infrastructure is being so rapidly deployed here in the… Read more »
RS
Member
3 years 10 months ago
Jeff
Member
3 years 10 months ago

Exhibit B and C 😛

RS
Member
3 years 10 months ago

Jeff, if I get 50 of those kits it might work wonders in the summer, if it’s a dry year… lol.
PS. Look at the weather in the video 😉 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polar_night

Jeff
Member
3 years 10 months ago

In that case, Exhibit D.

RS
Member
3 years 10 months ago

I KNEW you’d put up a windmill next. LOL!
Think we’d better stop though. This must be annoying as hell to the others 🙂

DAVID W
Member
3 years 10 months ago
I pretty much agree with MariusGTV. I did not read Swade’s article as negative. Given the information we know, full EV aimed at China, I do not see myself as a new SAAB customer any longer. I sincerely hope that changes, but right now, that is my reality. I do not want a full EV. I no longer have a dealer here in Dallas TX and don’t think there are any in Texas for that matter, but that could always change. I wish NEVS and the Trollhatttan workers the best. I have owned several SAABs and loved every one. Not… Read more »
100%Saab
Member
3 years 10 months ago

You have five Service Centers in Texas including: “Sewell Cadillac – Saab 7310 Lemmon Avenue, Dallas, TX 75209.” I do not believe that the official service centers sell new Saabs, but Blue Grass Saab in Louisville, Kentucky is listing 120 “used” Saabs some with 5 miles on them this morning. The last time I checked about 2 weeks ago Scoggin Dickey in Lubbock still had one 2010 9-3 vert on the lot which they don’t advertise or list. It just sits on the new car lot.

For me uncertainty is a factor.

DAVID W
Member
3 years 10 months ago

I bought my current and one previous SAAB from Sewell. But I have a great independent guy, French’s SAAB Service that is half what Sewell wanted to charge for the 60K service for the same jobs.
Service is not the problem, at least for my 9-3 vert. I would like a new 9-5, but Sewell sold very few, if any in the area and l am not sure what service would be like for it. My 9-3 has been super reliable, coming very close to equaling our Forester. Hurry up and wait seems to be our only option right now…

E
Member
3 years 10 months ago

Sewell didn’t sell any NG 9-5s because they canceled their order for them. I do believe, but have not verified, they attended the training on how to service the NG 9-5. Whether they service them, I do not know. I have a fantastic SAAB dealer in the state north of me, so I don’t travel to Sewell in the state west of me for SAAB service.

That said, I’ve owned my 2010 NG 9-5 Aero for two years and it has been super reliable for me.

Ayrshirexc90
Member
3 years 10 months ago
It is sad to see the rift that has developed between Swade and SU. I have read the articles referred to, and think Swade has the right take on what is going on with NEVS. I, too, am skeptical about what they are saying, and think it unlikely they will have a vehicle suitable for me in the near future. I do hope they make a success of it, as they may draw me back in to the fold in the years to come. As an outsider looking in, it seems that Swade is approaching this as a Saab fan,… Read more »
phermansson
Member
3 years 10 months ago

You make a very good and fair observation about the situation! Thanx!

sonett71
Member
3 years 10 months ago

Thanx also to you, Tim + + + + +

Peter Gaeng
Member
3 years 10 months ago
Hi there, It is with interest I’m reading your thoughts. some quite interesting angles here. Let’s compare with an other really big , or at least use to be big, the group ABBA. ABBA was never really big in Sweden as it were outside of Sweden. I know as I’m Swedish since birth. Last time I heard an ABBA song in sweden was maybe in the 80’s. When I moved to Scotland in 2002, I, to my surprise, could listen to ABBA songs on national radio!! The same is with SAAB and Volvo.( I know this is a SAAB forum)… Read more »
wfg
Member
3 years 10 months ago
I feel sad and sorry that all the things happened around Saab and the take-over by Spyker and subsequently NEVS, split the Saab enthusiasts. Often I feel that many Saab enthusiasts feel hopeless by the current situation. I have to admit that I did not like the take-over by NEVS. However this view has changed. NEVS gave us the straw I, and I guess many others too, was waiting for such a long time: the indicated that they consider bringing a Saab car quite soon. Is’nt that what we were waiting for such a long time? Yes, I would like… Read more »
sonett71
Member
3 years 10 months ago

+ + + + +

Your comment is great 🙂 This is it !!!

North Toronto Punter
Member
3 years 10 months ago
Echo the ‘Kiss/Make Up’ sentiment voiced above. That Said….A Pox on All Houses! [Tongue meshed with Cheek :)] Both Muller/Swan and NEVS (hitherto) failed miserably in articulating anything to do with what made Saab ‘SAAB’: Not about The Hatch….uber-practicality….button dash, nor over-engineered (yet flimsy!) cup holders — not even ‘Turbo’. The Room’s Elephant is Motorsport –of which there’s been none for 20 years. Saab’s Glory days were inextricably linked to their success and participation in sporting events (‘Rally’ specifically). In the late 70’s Saab fought valiantly in the Top Tier. Saab wasn’t merely quotidian ‘efficient’ transport (nor Alacantra headliners). It… Read more »
Angelo V.
Member
3 years 10 months ago
Punter: Do you agree that without gas/diesel powered propulsion, resurrecting some of that “Espirit” is not going to happen? That’s my feeling. I think if NEVS is as well equipped, bright and flush with cash as some say—-they can walk and chew gum at the same time. I believe they can (and hopefully will) resume gas powered Saabs while they work to “knock our socks off” with an EV that makes even me say—-I WAS WRONG! I WANT ONE!” But I still think the driving enthusiasts will want that car that runs on petrol and I don’t blame them. I… Read more »
North Toronto Punter
Member
3 years 10 months ago

Angelo: My daily drive is +/- 380 HP, Tits tuned [Vtuned, Maptuned, GS’d, Hirsched out] Turbo X (granted, automatic…but rest assured swift enough). i share the vast majority of your sentiments (and dangle, politics :)).. I don’t share your price point philosophy. Yet we can still share a beer.

baas900i
Member
3 years 10 months ago

think diesel power is a dead duck as a future power plant, still wondering about ksegg’s multi air equivalent on a B234r? what ever happened to it?

sonett71
Member
3 years 10 months ago
It is a sad day. Everything with Saab has ended up with a big war. Now this is very, very bad. I was myself not happy to see Saab Automobile change the face to Nevs. I wanted to see Saab as a Spyker / Youngman company. But this was not. From now I will support the new situation and hope to see a great Saab-way with a lot of good Nevs news. I think they are on the right way and I hope to see the factory start up again with Saab 9-3 in the summer of 2013. If this… Read more »
rafael guerra
Member
3 years 10 months ago
I don´t know why everybody is sad today, the topic of Doomsday Prophecies is only a somebody point of view, even if you really want to know more about Mayan civilization I recommend you to visit CanCun, Mex. (Caribean) just for vacation, and forget (for a moment) this bad news. In Cancun Mex. you can drive an exotic car, is up to you (Lamborghini, Ferrari, Mercedes SLS , MBW, Lotus elise, Audi RS8, Bugatti Veyron, unfortunately they don´t have any saab) for $ 599 usd an hour, or $ 150 usd for 1/4 mile. Included a prefessional drive test, if… Read more »
baas900i
Member
3 years 10 months ago

it’s a shame but people fall out, get divorced, make up, move on, linger etc, it’s human nature…

Dagen Runt
Member
3 years 10 months ago

Swade’s interview gave me solid answers and eliminated certain misplaced hope SU has been endorsing. The facts I got out of Swade’s blog: EV1 for China. EV2 maybe later if EV1 sells enough. No hybrid. Petrol 9-3 perhaps for China. Thank you.

Compare that to SU’s vague time buying policy over the past months. Yours is an exercise in denial and rejection rather than journalism. I’m sorry, but as Tim leaves, maybe it’s time for the rest of you to take stock of where forced positivity will get you. In a corner with the rose-tinted paint around you refusing to dry.

JasonPowell
Member
3 years 10 months ago
Yup, you are so right. You really think that one interview where the contact is one person and the post is another persons opinion that you got all the facts? SU has had contact with a lot more than just Mikael Östlund, hell NEVS Vice President Mattias Bergman was at Octoberfest where he took questions from the Saab fans. If you really believe that you have all the answers now which in fairness Swade doesn’t even believe he has them all, then there is no sense in talking further because you are not prepared to believe anything but what you’ve… Read more »
sonett71
Member
3 years 10 months ago

You are right !!!

Dagen Runt
Member
3 years 10 months ago
Is that another way of saying “We hear things but cannot disclose any of it” or “NEVS isn’t saying anything substantial to anyone at the moment”? Seriously, I can’t tell what you guys at SU know or hope to know of NEVS plans. Swade makes sense and his info seemed to drive both Tim and Till off the edge. If you think Swade is way off mark, why don’t you run his interview transcript by your sources at NEVS and let them correct any misunderstandings. If “let’s wait and see” is what you can report right now it’s not a… Read more »
phermansson
Member
3 years 10 months ago

Nothing that Swade posted in his interview was new. It had all been published here many times in the last two months… But Swade placed doubt on a lot of things that have already been explained or shouldnt be explained. The fact that he could not tell the one from the other proves he doesnt know more, that fact people still think what Swade wrote is news proves we havent done a good enough job spreading the message… or people simply dont read what we write, either way, its a sad thing…

JasonPowell
Member
3 years 10 months ago
I myself have talked to Swade and told him what I thought of his post and he himself doesn’t look at things saying they are going to fail and from what I read, it seams he thinks this is a direction they need to take. Yes there are things that we may know and can’t report on and the points that you say to run by NEVS to let them correct are all things they will not reveal at this moment just because Dagen Runt feels they should. No, wait and see is not a big feat and I’m never… Read more »
Jeff
Member
3 years 10 months ago
Jason, don’t get too worked up. Dagen Runt is either just frustrated or worse, trying to provoke Tim into divulging something out of anger that he shouldn’t. That Tim has sat on all the information you and I know he has without saying it to this point is saying something in itself, and to have to sit on it is yet another reason his stress level is through the roof. If people want to get pissy with Tim, let them. It’s not like they’re going to stop reading, changing their username and commenting again, no matter how many times they… Read more »
Dagen Runt
Member
3 years 10 months ago
Tim, Jason Again, “not closed doors on hybrid or petrol” is vague. I haven’t closed the door on Saab becoming the biggest EV manufacturer in the world by 2030. On the other hand, I’m open to the possibility that they might fail in establishing a reasonable share in Chinese EV market and call it quits by 2016. It is of little importance what an average punter comments on a Swedish Saab site, but to me NEVS marching order is clear and Swade nailed it. Right now they need to make it in China first with the EV1. Failing that, lord… Read more »
Angelo V.
Member
3 years 10 months ago
Jason: I’m sorry—-but I’m not sure NEVS even has a clear understanding of their business plan. I’m trying to understand the comment “…he (Swade) seems to think this is a direction they must take.” That blows my mind. What seems like 10 minutes ago, he was in love with the direction Muller was taking. That direction seems to be opposite the one NEVS is taking. Muller wasn’t hitching his wagon to the feeble EV horse. Muller wasn’t planning to target the Far East and “get to the rest of the planet if things work out in China, and if they… Read more »
sonett71
Member
3 years 10 months ago

grantyboy20t
Member
3 years 10 months ago
Hey guys. I have spent a lot of time reading all material written by both Tim and Swade during the last couple of years. I dont want to see a fall out in our SAABS UNITED community. Both of these guys are entitled to their opinions, as we all are. its very sad that we possibly shall never again see some real SAABS on our roads. I personally have been SSAB daft for the past 26 years, since my dad brought home a 99 EMS. I now have a 90 and a 2003 9-5 estate. Regardless of what the future… Read more »
JasonPowell
Member
3 years 10 months ago

I’m all about being united and will continue to do what I can to help in keeping that spirit alive. Good comment.

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