NEVS in discussions with suppliers
January 6, 2013 in News
As we’ve heard some time ago, NEVS initiated talks with suppliers to investigate the possibility of restarting the production of the current 9-3 line. According to NEVS there was still interest in this car with a normal combustion engine. One other reason for this choice could also be that China is most likely to miss its targets of 2015 and 2020 of the number of electric cars that can be put into use and the demand for combustion type cars in China is also huge at the moment.
Some talk have been circulated in the media lately that restarting the line might not be as easy as one would have hoped. Of course negotiations into restarting production is a huge task and one not made easily, especially if you’re a new guy in the game.
Two companies stand out in the discussions and the first one is Autoliv (supplier of safety systems such as airbags) who according to unconfirmed, however reliable sources, are not hesitant but lets say not as cooperative as one would have hoped. Number two is FIAT who according to the same sources want to discuss the issues of supplying NEVS with engines further rather than just sign the papers right away.
I’ve talked to a very reliable source who was deeply involved in getting the supply chain back up and running in 2010 and he told me that one could expect such deals with suppliers, if done right, to take at least 8-12 months. Back then more than 800 contracts had to be negotiated and signed. Although not as many this time, it is a huge process and requires a bit of patience and a lot of money!
NEVS are regardless of being a new company apparently still haunted by the remains of Saab Automobile AB and its huge amount of un-paid invoices. Many suppliers took a huge hit when Saab Automobile AB stopped paying their bills and many suppliers have completely converted the tools and facilities into producing either for other brands or closed them down completely.
One should remember that for a supplier it is a huge financial undertaking into restarting production of new parts for a “new” brand. A risk that in this financially difficult time, many are not as willing to make without certain precautions and insurances.
We’ve tried to contact a few of the suppliers, some are talking and are very happy that production might restart, some are simply stating “no comment”. Regardless of the process, getting confirmed facts is extremely difficult at this time but there are still some people willing to talk.
We at SU are of course also in a situation now where everything we write about NEVS ends up in the main stream media and we’re once again placed in a situation where us reporting on some issues might hurt the brand rather than help it… and in this fragile situation I’d ask everyone to understand that we’re stating a lot less than we know, at least until the waters have calmed down a bit…
Bravada from GMI said on January 6, 2013
I am afraid, Tim, that your last paragraph is phrased in a way that might actually stir the water a bit more, at least around here (as if mainstream media even cared about Saab by now, sadly). It suggests there is some information that you have and withheld that puts NEVS in negative light in some way, probably with regard to the probability of them resuming production. If this is not the case, you might want to rephrase it.
Tim said on January 6, 2013
In sweden anything written about NEVS is highly watched by the media, I know because it usually doesn’t take long until a number of reporters call me from various international news-papers.
Lets just say that just like in 2011, there are a number of rumors and stories floating around that is potentially not positive for NEVS, but how true these rumors are is difficult to judge. So until we know more we don’t publish stuff that could be potentially damaging to NEVS, other media can take care of that. SU has had the same policy since Swade started the website.
Jasper said on January 6, 2013
The brevity is understood and appreciated. Thank you for the discussion offered which is like water for a thirsty man. The FIAT mention is most interesting. Anticipate more news as things progress.
Thylmuc said on January 7, 2013
Indeed, given the “common knowledge” that hitherto, the engines had been supplied by Opel and Holden. The Diesel engine of 2 litres has been co-developped by Fiat and GM, so I assume that it might be a plug and play replacement.
But what can we deduce from this?
GM refuses to supply engines? Would not surprise me.
Would the 9-3″reloaded” only be available with Diesel engines? That is indeed a possibility. The petrol engines that Fiat presently produces are evidently of a different kind than the Opel engines, and would hence require more modifications to the 9-3. Further, aside from the 1.75 litre engine, Fiat apparently stopped production of all stronger engines that might be interesting to Saab, with the demise of the 159, the Chroma, and the Thesis.
Thylmuc said on January 8, 2013
UPon further investigation, i.e. a visual check, while the 2.0 TiD in the new 9-5 and the 2.0 JTD in the 159 look rather similar, the 1.9 that has been used in the 9-3 so far is a different engine. Whether it is still being manufactured by Fiat, I can’t tell.
Angelo V. said on January 6, 2013
I think it’s reasonable to hesitate on printing negative rumors. Positive rumors—are harmless for the most part. If they don’t pan out, they were “just rumors.” But negative ones—-can do damage and once the damage is done, saying they were “just rumors” isn’t enough to restore things to normalcy. But I do hope that above all—-when things get beyond the rumor mill into real news—we get the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. In other words—-if there is a breakdown and the problem is NEVS, let’s please not craft words to try to protect NEVS or give them a dignified way of explaining. Honesty is the best policy! Witholding information or repackaging it to protect NEVS—-because they are the owner of Saab—-wouldn’t be doing any of us a favor. Tell it like it is.
rcase13 said on January 6, 2013
I agree with you Angelo, for the most part, but I think we can all agree that reporting on news that is good but not likely is almost as damaging. Too many times we heard good news from Victor that we all knew had very little chance of succeeding.
I 100% agree with your last statement. I need to know the news concerning Saab good or bad.
Tim said on January 6, 2013
Telling things is not easy since most things are subject to point of view and privilege to details. If one minor detail is missing it can completely change a story…
Thats what make our jobs as writers here on su so frustrating but at the same time very interesting…
tianalfred said on January 8, 2013
Angelo, i was told just now NEVS will build a plant and localize traditional vehicle and EVs in Qingdao, Shandong, home of NEVS founder Mr. Jiang, can any one confirm this?
baas900i said on January 6, 2013
looks like nevs will be paying cash up front to secure suppliers support as without their support the nevs business case is dead in the water…
3cyl said on January 6, 2013
I’ll assume that NEVS knows what they are doing, but the concept that there is apparently no point at which the last 9-3 will be too old a design to be successfull is somewhat unusual in that it didn’t sell well enough to be profitable when it was in heyday.
Tim said on January 6, 2013
Remember that the 9-3 was extremely Saab unique in terms of parts and that caused a big development cost. That development cost is now gone, the only problem of parts-sharing remains but it could probably be a profitable car easily if it carries the right features and most important is priced right…
3cyl said on January 6, 2013
I recognize the development cost piece, but that will probably be offset by the volume factor. Regardless, none of that changes the reality that the 9-3 is, if not old, getting older.
Many posts on this site refer to the “priced right” concept. If that means the cars have to be perceived as a bargain (i.e. comparable to the competition, but at a lower price), then it will probably be a case of NEVS losing money on those cars. Maybe NEVS can afford to do that and is willing to do it to get production going.
Priced right could also mean reducing the content of the product enough to come in at a price point that is attractive to potential SAAB buyers. I don’t believe this would result in a bargain SAAB, but rather a car for buyers who want a SAAB and are willing to forego premium type features that might be available on competing products at the same price. In that case, there would have to be enough SAAB buyers who feel that owning a relatively low production vehicle with the 9-3’s inherent design features is more important than things like dashboard materials.
Realistically though, the less content route seems contrary to NEVS’ own statement that they are targeting a more premium market with their products.
tianalfred said on January 8, 2013
Tim, i was told just now NEVS will build a plant and localize traditional vehicle and EVs in Qingdao, Shandong, home of NEVS founder Mr. Jiang, can any one confirm this?
Angelo V. said on January 6, 2013
I don’t assume that they know what they are doing. That’s not even really a knock on NEVS—-it’s just that even car manufacturers who have been around 100 years don’t strike me as “knowing what they are doing” so an upstart might also be very shakey at best. That said—-the last 9-3 could sell in respectable numbers. If it’s positioned right and marketed correctly, it can sell. Speaking for the U.S.—-the vast majority of car shoppers have never internalized seeing one—-and absolutely have never sat in one—-and positively have never driven one. So “newness” is not necessarily out of the question when the car returns. Reintroducing it—-might be scoffed at by the automotive press, but belive it or not, most buyers don’t make decisions based on Car and Driver, Road and Track, Motor Trend or Automobile. Commercials/advertisements are what get people to showrooms in the U.S. The car still looks great—-I see them on the road in and around Washington, DC and even as a Saab fan who has seen plenty of them—-I still think the design is a good one—-very strong lines. The interior is quite nice. And historically, if you could get people to test drive a Saab and if you offered it at the right price—it generated sales. The 9-3 is viable if they handle it correctly.
No 9 said on January 6, 2013
Saw a late 9-3 recently and was surprised how it still stands out. VW and Nissan (and probably others) kept old generation models at a bargain price alongside their more expensive replacements and seem to have profited from it. But they didn’t have to restart their production lines. OTOH, Nevs need to restart the line IAC so why not do it sooner than later with an IC engine. The idea sounds good on paper but no doubt a very challenging one. Of course the 9-3 is long in the tooth, but just to think that an IC SAAB might be built again is music to my ears. HAS to be turbo though.
Angelo V. said on January 6, 2013
#9: I agree with almost everything you wrote—-though in my world, offering a non-turbo 9-3 at a lower price would be a very smart idea. Perhaps the entry level model could be normally asipirated and a turbocharged engine could be optional or a higher trim level. One of Saab’s biggest problems with making sales was the image of turbos being “different,” higher maintenance, more prone to needing costly repairs, etc. Whether this reputation was/is justified or not, hardly matters. Perception is reality in the marketplace. The other problem was the high cost of entering the world of Saab. If they can lower the price between $1000.00 – 2000.00 by going with a decontented model with a non-turbo engine, the car will still be fundamentally good—-and bring more buyers to the brand. Engines are out there that are non-turbo and provide satisfactory performance on a car this size.
No 9 said on January 6, 2013
You could be right Angelo, but turbo engines are almost mainstream now. And look at the equipment you get in a small ecobox today! Not an easy position for NEVS.
Bernard said on January 6, 2013
I think that the costs of developing, procuring, tooling, stocking, servicing, etc, for a non-turbo engine would be vastly greater than the cost savings. Besides, why would anyone buy a non-turbo Saab when even Dodge and Hyundai now offer modern turbocharged cars?
It’s like power windows: it’s cheaper to put power windows on every car coming down the line than it is to put crank-up windows on every 10th or 20th car, only to sit on a dealer’s lot forever.
If anything, Saab/NEVS should aim for simplicity: offer one good engine (two if they offer both gas and diesel), two transmissions, and a limited number of trim levels, none of which should be without the modern essentials (Bluetooth, A/C, etc).
No 9 said on January 6, 2013
I agree
Angelo V. said on January 6, 2013
Funny you mention VW. To go along with what you’re saying—-from what I can tell, the boxy Jetta of 1998 and earlier (and as I recall, half of ’99) was a better automobile than the slightly more rounded looking one that replaced it in ’99/2000. For a while, they sold them side by side—-perhaps not intentionally, but because they had the boxy ones still unsold in inventories and the new ones arriving. People were excited by the “newness” of the replacement model. But there were no deep discounts—-and no problems at all selling out of the ’98 version. And within just a couple years, people in the market for a used car sought out that ’98 generation instead of the newer one—-not only for price, but because the car was solid and reliable.
No 9 said on January 6, 2013
Here in Canada, they sold the boxy Golf and Jetta for many years alongside the new ones,calling them City. Nissan did the same with the Sentra, calling the old one Classic. As long as you have to have the production capacity to do that, I’m sure is profitable to squeeze out the last dollars from a model whose development costs are paid for. This partly applies to the 9-3.
bpsorrel said on January 6, 2013
Agreed. In Russia (where I am right now) Nissan kept the old Almera going as a “Classic” It’s very poluar as a budget car,
Seems like a good move to me..
Andrew M Dodds said on January 7, 2013
I have owned Saab’s for many years culminating in a 9.5 Aero 260 bhp anniversary estate which I adored. Unfortunately this car was written off when I was rammed by a Toyota doing over 60 mph in December last year, The saab was still drivable and got me home, unlike the toyota that ended up in so many pieces it needed a shovel to put it on the recovery truck.
As I was convinced that had I been in any lesser car than a Saab I would have been badly injured, and the 9.5 estate was not replaceable I stayed loyal to Saab and my excellent Saab dealer bought a new 9.3 X. Bad move!
I hated the car and lost a lot of money replacing 12 months later. The car handled badly wallowing on fast corners, the 6 speed auto was slow and clunky but worst of all, 22 to 25 mpg! (my replacement 3 litre Jaguar XF does up to 50 mpg on a trip and averages around 38 doing the shopping)
If NEVS seriously want to make their mark by restarting the 9.3 line, I wonder if they realise how much work and money will be needed to bring that car up to scratch and make it an attractive proposition in todays market place. I am sorry but it’s 10 years out of date and it shows, also the prospect of buying a Saab based on Fiat mechanicals does nothing to persuade me buy another one. What happened to the much talked about Phoenix platform and why try to re launch an out of date car?
Angelo V. said on January 7, 2013
Andrew: It’s unfortunate that things didn’t work out with the 9-3 X. I am not familiar with the X. I do know people here in the Washington, DC area with late model 9-3s—-and they love their cars. It’s popular to say the car is “10 years out of date” but honestly, that’s white noise to me at this point. Back in the early 1970s, the Volkswagen Beetle was two generations “out of date” and the managed to continue selling them by the bucketfull. Saab also has a history of cars like the 900 being “10 years out of date” as was the Volvo 240—–and again, they were both selling in quite strong numbers when they were phased out and replaced by, in my humble opinion, inferior cars. The European makes in particular have had a history in the U.S. of continuing with a basic body style and interior layout—-and refining it slowly—-evolving the mechanicals while making tiny adjustments to the styling. True, trollops like General Motors and the Japanese (along with a fickle, misinformed and not very selective buying public) have pushed Europe to a faster product cycle. Maybe it’s time to slow things down a bit. The 9-3 styling, inside and out, looks terrific. I don’t own one (I have a 9-5) but I’d be very happy in a modern 9-3—–provided the car was reliable and affordable. I was ready to buy a Saab based on Mahindra mechanicals, so I’m not at all scared off by FIAT mechanicals. Give the car a reasonable sticker price and a good warranty—-it’ll sell with proper advertising (a major problem for Saab historically—-and I’m not getting the impression that’s going to change under NEVS—-so that could very well be the downfall of this whole thing, whether it’s an outdated 9-3, a Phoenix, or something entirely different.).
hughw said on January 7, 2013
Gotta say this. I bought a “new” 2011 9-3X from Gary Blake Saab with 65 miles on the odometer. It’s a beauty!!! My friends ask me if its a new model Saab, and how can that be since Saab is dead. Drives great, better than my previous 9-3SC. And yes, it probably is getting 2-4mpg less than the 9-3SC.
No 9 said on January 7, 2013
I always thought the 9-5 was the best SAAB ever, even thought I would give an arm and a leg for a 99 EMS.
Angelo V. said on January 8, 2013
You prefer the GM era 9-5 over the 1980s 900? I’ve only owned a 2004 9-5. But I remember being in 900s from the 1980s and my recollection is of a higher quality interior finish. I also thought the designed was more inspired—-though I do like my wagon. I’ve heard that GM era 9-5 reliability is better. So far, my car has been quite good after 8 years.
Saabgun said on January 7, 2013
I wouldn’t be afraid of the Fiat parts. I have the 9-5ng Aero and a 9-3 Aero convertible both with the TTiD engine, wich comes from Fiat. They run very smooth. About the use I dont know in MPG but the both run about 7 liters per 100km.
Bernard said on January 7, 2013
The 9-3 is considered an “old” platform because it’s inflexible, not because the cars made on that platform are obsolete.
Newer platforms such as the Phoenix can be used on a wide variety of different models, whereas the 9-3 platform can only be used on the 9-3 sedan and its close derivatives (convertible, combi).
In other words, any car based on the old 9-3 will be around 4.6m long and 1.8m wide.
I know what you mean about the 9-3X. Part of the problem is that you are comparing it to the old 9-5, which is an awesome car. The 9-3X is taller, shorter, with a higher CG, so it won’t be as good. That being said, road tests said that it handled as well as, or better than, the Audi Allroad, Subaru Legacy and Volvo XC70. It evidently wasn’t the right product for you.
kochje said on January 6, 2013
You are absolutely right Angelo; the Jetta of the first generation was, and still is in China, a good and strong car.
In China it is now still one of the most represented taxi cars.
It would not be bad in the 9-3, without a Turbo and so at a resonable price, could be produced again to put a modern looking taxi on the road in China and elswhere and have the Turbo equiped 9-3 and of course as well the convertable for the public with deeper pockets.
Would work but just hope that NEVS gets the right staff together to make that happen.
No 9 said on January 6, 2013
I would think it’s impossible to compete against a Chinese-built Jetta with a Sweden-built SAAB…
Wonder how the older rebaged 9-3 and 9-5s are doing in China?
kochje said on January 6, 2013
That is work for NEVS; they nevertheless need to come up with a serious business plan if they want to meke this re-start a success.
If you have doubs from the beginning you better do not start.
On the other hand the Chinese market is THE market to explore and it is at least a route that has to be investigated.
Tim said on January 6, 2013
As far as I know they have a business plan and don’t need to come up with one? =)
No 9 said on January 6, 2013
Indeed Tim
kochje said on January 6, 2013
Reading all the post about NEVS it seems that their business plan was mainly based on the manufacturing of Electrical cars, which is good.
The idea to start with existing 9-3 cars came later and was based on multiple ideas ( get expreineced workforce and now get these cars while Chinese market seems not to develop so fastly to electrical cars) so for me that part of their business plan is not so firm.
Angelo V. said on January 6, 2013
Tim: Most business plans—even a 15 page plan submitted to the Small Business Administration or a community bank—-let’s say in an effort to borrow for the purchase of a tiny franchise in a shopping center that cleans and repairs shoes—-most business plans include quite an important section on sales and marketing. In today’s world, the question about web marketing also comes up consistently. “How are you going to sell this great widget?” Do you have even the foggiest idea of what NEVS is thinking along those lines? Strike that. Do you know IF they are thinking along those lines? That question “Who are they?” (figuratively, not literally) keeps coming up. And the other question, “What are they doing?” And here we are in 2013. And that question should be answered by now. And it’s not.
Tim said on January 6, 2013
I dont agree with you…
I’ve read several business plans and also written two in my life time and the golden rule is don’t market anything you don’t have which is exactly what NEVS is doing. Currently they dont have anything to sell so there is no point in marketing anything. Most of these guys worked for springtime which is one of the biggest PR agencies in Sweden. You can be assured that once its time for marketing, you’ll notice it! =)
Angelo V. said on January 7, 2013
I’m sure Saab had a lot of people who had backgrounds with big Swedish PR firms (and American ones) and they failed miserably at marketing their products. Tim—-don’t the business plans you’re familiar with include the path to producing a product and then promoting it? In NEVS business plan, would the Receivers or lenders really be satisfied with “We have an idea to use battery technology and the Saab name brand to sell electric cars in China and then maybe other places too?” Is that really enough? In my world, the person trying to get a business transaction or loan approved would need a small volume of detailed information on everything, including distribution channels, management, marketing efforts, experience, etc.—-all required even if their product wasn’t ready for prime time yet. It’s just all part of the process to make sure the company doesn’t have tunnel vision and no ability to move the product once they create it. Very skeptical—-VERY. At this point, we should be able to visit a website that looks like it’s professionally done—-real copywriting, interesting features, etc. They have to be able to walk and chew gum at the same time.
No 9 said on January 7, 2013
My point exactly. Why make noise when you have nothing to sell? With the money these people have invested, I wished they were given more credit. Let’s not have too many back seat drivers and be patient. They have been moving at a brisk pace considering the immense challenge they are tackling. Reviving a dead marginal automaker in a world car overproduction situation is not a no brainer entreprise!
Angelo V. said on January 7, 2013
No 9: I think you’re missing the point. Is Saab dead? I thought Saab is still alive, with a new owner, NEVS? But by staying mute as they are doing, the entire world THINKS Saab is dead at this point. Wasn’t the case six months ago. Now that the 2013s are on the road, it’s the case now. There was an opportunity to educate the automotive world that Saab is a live and kicking—-loading up to resume sales while working on the future. But by not having a credible website, not speaking to the automotive press regularly, not providing updates to the car world—-Saab might as well be “dead.” What a shame. You don’t get a do-over when the stakes are this high. There’s nothing sophisticated about this. It’s basic college advertising/public relations—-101—-introductory. It’s mind boggling that an international consortium, apparently with serious funding is this inept at messaging. Wow.
Angelo V. said on January 8, 2013
Yep, we simply haven’t been patient enough with Saab. We must keep calm and carry on. By the time cars have evolved to space pods, NEVS might have something on the drawing board—-sort of a Phoenix profile with a charging port where the Griffin emblem used to be. It will fly for about 35 miles before needing a recharge—-careful though, if you forget that plug-in the night before, it’ll drop like a rock.
Red J said on January 6, 2013
Interesting to see, that a Swedish supplier like Autoliv is the one making trouble. I really hope NEVS manages to get the production line running sooner than later, but they have to assure that the product that leaves the THN-factory has to be first quality.
Interesting times ahead, although the Swedish press might make it more difficult that it could.
No 9 said on January 6, 2013
I am sure it’s because they are in a precarious position also. TBS, other suppliers make airbags…
tianalfred said on January 6, 2013
I think it’s wise and also a must decision for NEVS to start traditional engine-powered 93 asap. It’s too naive to believe that China will realize a sale of 500,000 EVs and Plug-ins by 2015 and 5 million EVs and Plug-ins by 2020. In the first 10 months of 2012, a total of 7713 new energy vehicles(including EVs and Hybrid) were sold. it’s really impossibel to have 500,000-unit market demand by 2015. For NEVS, it has to restart traditional 93 first to generate incomes untile it has enough money to launch battery 93. even if it launches e-93 by 2014, it is impossible to have a big sale and less than 100 per year is the most optimistic estimation in China for NEVS. Plus, Sweden-built e-saab will be considered as a FOREIGN brand in China and can not get some subsidy as other local chinese, which will surely reduce e-saab’s competitiveness on price. it will be only a rumor/or imagination to say that some company has placed a huge order for e-saab in China, (it’s very likely to be NEVS’ parent company itself that places huge order, not for sale,but for publicity)
Angelo V. said on January 6, 2013
That all makes sense. As a lover of the brand—-I was upset when the Bankruptcy Receivers settled on NEVS—-not because I have anything against NEVS, or even against EVs—-but I have a strong opposition to putting the final nails in Saab’s coffin. My thought was/is that by turning this over to NEVS—-it gave the brand the LEAST likely chance, among the bidders we had been hearing about (Mahindra & Mahindra, Youngman, BMW rumor, etc.), to survive and thrive. I wasn’t sure then and I’m still not sure what NEVS end game really is. But here’s something that I consider a certainty: If their end game is to take the name Saab and rebuild that into a profitable car manufacturer with global sales—-for the short and long term future—-then going the route of only selling EVs proves they have no idea what they are doing—-or it’s a sham (or as Swedish taxpayers might see it, a scam). If they really want to make a go of it—-I’m convinced they need to offer gas/diesel powered automobiles with the Saab name. I think we can have reasonable debate about my opinion that they need a smaller, entry level car—-I strongly believe that but I do see the other point of view that Saab’s luxury image shouldn’t be compromised by such a car (I understand that logic but disagree with it.). But no, I don’t think it’s reasonable to believe that Saab can be a successful worldwide mass market player if all they sell are electric vehicles. That’s total pie in the sky. It was very alarming when this purchase of Saab was announced—-and in my world, I’m still uncomfortable with NEVS, though trying hard to believe in them. To that end, I wish to hell they’d start going public. This is insane—-their lack of a real website and their mum attitude toward seemingly EVERYONE.
TTAero said on January 6, 2013
I don’t think they ‘has to do’ anything actually, they did proved to got funding to buy what they sad they bought. They have given some points in their plans, but no details.
I try to sit back and enjoy the trip a head. It can be fun, excellent or a total flop. But, saying that nevs has to this or that to make a
future or even a future car named saab impleis that you knows insife stuff from nevs.
Angelo V. said on January 6, 2013
I don’t know the first thing about “inside stuff” at NEVS. Not even close. What I do know, after about 25 years of public relations/marketing, is how start-ups of all sizes fail. And how they succeed. They fail by lack of public outreach at the critical early stage. They fail by not seizing momentum when it’s practically slamming them over the head—-by staying mute silent when they should be offering an olive branch and exciting vision—if there is one. They succeed by capturing the imagination of the market—-of their future customers—-in this case, of their past and future customers. Success in selling is basically doing the opposite of what we’ve seen from this group so far. Like the old and often true saying goes, “You don’t get a second chance to make a first impression.” Speak NEVS, speak.
TTAero said on January 6, 2013
I replief to tinanalfred regarding inside stuff.
Should have put a “@”, first. Sorry if I promted you to defend your experience.
Thylmuc said on January 7, 2013
What shall they add to what they already said? I have all the basic information I need. I more or less know what their first product will look and work like, I know the basic components of their second generation product. Now it will take them years to actually release these products. The only thing that might be of higher interest is their idea on how to overcome the range limitations. I believe, here, they don’t have a fixed plan, and this will very much depend on scientific progress.
Angelo V. said on January 7, 2013
So it’ll be “years” before a Saab is produced again? Seems like we’re hearing conflicting information then. And I’m getting that information from a fan site, not from a NEVS/SAAB website. How crazy is that? Better question: WHY is that?
Thylmuc said on January 8, 2013
No, that was what I took from the press conference. Plus some added knowledge regarding the basic science. And yes, unless some experimental cars will be build in advance, the plan is to start production in late 2013. Are you now complaining that you don’t get information, or that it takes too long? That then shows the basic problem. Either way NEVS communicates, someone will complain. Sometimes even the very person
Angelo V. said on January 8, 2013
Actually, if they are starting production in late 2013, that isn’t “years” it’s THIS YEAR. That’s the conflicting information in your posts. And actually reading this on a NEVS/SAAB website would seem more reliable to me than interpretations on a fan site based on that conference video.
Aero1 said on January 6, 2013
Here in the US, there still are 100′s of unsold (NEW) 2011 SAABs. If one wants one they can be had for 10′s of 1000′s off the original retail, and they are still not selling them. I feel here the image as well as the reputation has been tarnished to a shade of rust and this will be extremely hard to over come without some type of (Huge) marketing help IF AND WHEN Nevs (still not understanding them not being called SAAB?) comes to back to the U.S.
I agree about the not having a proper website, andt even attempting at any type of positive marketing o
predator announce to the world that SAAB still exists
TTAero said on January 6, 2013
The us market was a great one for saab for many years. But, the post GM period, it was not!
To bad, and I truly believe it would have helped (not nesseserely saved) saab to not have sold any cars in NA the first 1-3 years. Here, we had orders from over 10.000 customers when production stopped, and those customers had no problem with prices of 40-50 k$ for a 9-5.
And now noone buys them….that is sad!
Tim said on January 6, 2013
If those cars would be exported to Sweden they would be sold within a month… here there are no new 9-3′s or 9-5′s left…
Daniel B said on January 7, 2013
Please please: If you have and fully loaded 2011 9-5 Aero Turbo6 in white, I buy it in a second!
I need to change my perk car so, if there is any dealer over there in the US that can make me a good deal, where off to make good friends:)
/Daniel
adams said on January 8, 2013
Do a web search for Bluegrass Saab in Louisville, Kentucky. I am NOT affiliated with this dealer but have considered buying a 2011 9-5 from them. Last time I checked (two weeks ago) they had 35 “new” 9-5s in stock …
Aero1 said on January 7, 2013
Sorry about posting twice, as I was trying to delete this first draft on my cell I inadvertently sent it.
Aero1 said on January 6, 2013
Here in the US, there still are 100′s of unsold (NEW) 2011 SAABs. If one wants one they can be had for 10′s of 1000′s off the original retail, and they are still not selling them. I feel here the image as well as the reputation has been tarnished to a shade of rust and this will be extremely hard to over come without some type of (Huge) marketing help IF AND WHEN Nevs (still not understanding them not being called SAAB?) comes to back to the U.S.
I agree about the not having a proper website, and not even attempting at any type of positive marketing or.
press announcement to the world that SAAB still exists
Seems beyond strange to me a person in the Marketing Profession.
I wish NEVS who wont call themselves SAAB good luck!
PS CALL VM he really knows what SAAB is and was about, he just needed more capital and less GM!
kochje said on January 6, 2013
Like that last comment about VM and do completely agree.
TTAero said on January 6, 2013
I can understand that some of the supplyers would like NEVS to pay up front, but why would NEVS be treated as the saab they lost money on?
NEVS have proven to have funding. Would they treat any new customers that way or is it just because NEVS is dependent on thoose supplyers and they try to get something extra out of there previous losses?
Angelo V. said on January 6, 2013
I think it’s a combination actually. I’m not sure about supplying to car manufacturers—-but in other trades, it’s possible for a new customer to get a line of credit based on a financial review such as Dun & Bradstreet. Sometimes and intial order will require a deposit—and subsequent orders will extend credit if bills are paid in reasonable time. In this case—-sure, it’s possible suppliers are angling for something extra because they perceive the situation as NEVS not having anywhere else to go. They might or might not be playing it right. NEVS does have options—-including not making the old 9-3. In this world economy, I think the suppliers need to be reasonable and not try to squeeze NEVS. They might outsmart themselves.
Vagabond said on January 7, 2013
Internal Combustion Engine!
74StingSaab said on January 7, 2013
Either way how it goes, thanks for the update.
zippy said on January 7, 2013
EV = going the way of the dinosaur.
wfg said on January 7, 2013
Sorry, but I have to disagree with the quiescent way of NEVS once again. Simply because of one problem: not everyone purchases a car just like that but considers a new car for a longer time. So this process takes time and needs inputs far ahead prior a final decision is taken. If potential customers don’t know whether or not a new Saab 9-3 with what-so-ever engine will be build how can they plan?
Let me give an example: Last December, I started to hesitate to turn my 9-5 Aero MY00 that is completely (chassis, brakes, engine, gear box, LSD,…) refurbished by Abbott 2011 to my hobby car at weekends while I was considering to buy a new car for every day and Winter. Thus, I wrote NEVS asking whether I should wait for a new Saab to purchase 2013 or to right away buy an “old, remaining” almost-brand new Saab from late 2011….got a very kind response (!), very fast (!), but…”we cant say yet”. So what happened, guess? Right, I bought the lovely late 2011 Saab 9-3 2.0T XWD perfectly finished by Hirsch (chassis, brakes & engine). Obviously, I will not be among the first customers of a potential new Saab in 2013! And THAT is the problem of never saying something!
Nevertheless, the 9-3 XWD is fabulous and if someone says this car is outdated, this person hardly every drove it and compared it with products of other European premium brands. ok, its not like my superior 9-5, but its simply great. Its fast, its efficient and, most importantly, its really fun to drive. Truly, I wonder, how a company producing such product can get bankruptcy, but that we have to live with it.
While I do completely respect the decent way of NEVS, I am afraid that too many potential customers will take the same decision like me…. After all if the new SAAB/NEVS should get successful the newly produced cars need to be purchased and nobody else than we, Saab enthusiasts should be the first ones ordering.
Still I keep my fingers crossed…
Angelo V. said on January 7, 2013
It goes beyond what you describe though. To me, it’s not about NEVS losing a couple thousand sales because people don’t know whether to wait or not. It’s more about NEVS losing tens of thousands of future sales—-because they are not priming the pumps to acclimate ALL BUYERS to the fact that Saab still exists—-that Saab is still here, working on the next generation of products that are going to take the market by storm—-and that production will resume soon on a Saab many of us are familiar with too—with new value an attainability—while NEVS is busy working on bringing high technology EV products are being brought to market. In other words, the are failing to reassure people that Saab is alive and in so not doing, they are telegraphing the fact that they might be in over their heads. Nobody wants to see a reapeat of 2011 and get stuck with cars with no warranty, dminished resale value, lack of parts, etc.—-and as of now, NEVS is actually looking far worse than Muller in understanding how to keep a company around long term—-that is, by appealing to customers!!! For crying out loud, this is so elementary, it’s ridiculous. And no, by no means do you wait until the final stages of having a product secured before you begin marketing it. That’s insanity and it will fail every time.
wfg said on January 7, 2013
Yes, Angelo V., you are so correct and all what you say shows me that you really like Saab. I just wish, the fellows at NEVS would take the chance NOW as if they are too late, its too late!
kochje said on January 7, 2013
Would be nice if NEVS soon announce the new Saab Logo.
At least that would be a first sign that Saab is still there.
Once they have made the logo public we all hope they start to communicate.
Romac said on January 8, 2013
@AngeloV And no, by no means do you wait until the final stages of having a product secured before you begin marketing it. That’s insanity and it will fail every time.
You’d like my boss then – sells ideas before he knows if we can do them! His argument is that well, you’re selling the future. If the customer wants it we’ll find a way.
Your thinking is that, even with no clear product to sell, the NEVS/SAAB name should be cropping up everywhere in articles and news around the world to keep it’s “goodwill” alive and kicking?
Angelo V. said on January 8, 2013
Romac: At this stage, NEVS wouldn’t be selling a product. They would be reintroducing the brand—-or letting people know Saab is still in business. It’s critical. Crucial. Vital. The fact is—-the first six months or so after Saab went bankrupt—-the average car buyer (that is, people who aren’t “car crazy” but happen to be car consumers) didn’t even know Saab was gone. Now, people are noticing. People see the dealers closing. People are hearing from friends who have Saabs that their dealer has closed or they’re having trouble getting a part and they haven’t had their car in a while, etc. This is the incredibly important stage where a new owner needs to be visible. I’m perplexed that NEVS doesn’t seem to understand this—-and that apparently, no one is advising them. I don’t care what they build—-how great it is—-if Saab’s image is completely shot—-a joke—-they will fall flat. I can’t speak for China—-so if their intent is to only sell cars in China, maybe they know something I don’t. If they have even the slightest inclination to sell cars in other markets again—-North America and elsewhere—-they have to wake up really fast. Their silence is killing this.
Red J said on January 8, 2013
Angelo,
remember that currently there is no brand to sell. They really have to first create the new badge, and believe it is no easy task, after that they will be able to create a new brand around that and tell the people about the new brand.
Angelo V. said on January 8, 2013
New badge: SAAB
There, handled. Next.
Seriously—-it’s messaging Red. The could introduce a logo LATER. Right now—-are we still not even sure if they are using the name Saab? If that’s the case, I guess maybe I am rushing it. I assumed NEVS has authorization and assurance that the brand name of what they are planning is Saab.
Angelo V. said on January 14, 2013
Low and behold, a brand to sell. SAAB.
Thylmuc said on January 7, 2013
But, but…maybe they told you “we can’t say yet” because, well, err, they can’t say yet? So, what you actually demand from them is not to speak more clearly, but to negotiate faster with the suppliers. Unfortunately, that is also limited by the speed with which these suppliers want to negotiate a possible restart.
Would you prefer being told “yes wait, in 2013 we will build the 9-3 again”, only to get another email at the end of 2013 saying “oops, sorry, Fiat refused to deliver engines”? That would really ruin any remaining trust, wouldn’t it? And don’t forget, the combustion engine version is rumoured to be only a test run to keep the factory buzzy, and some people employed.
Angelo V. said on January 8, 2013
Actually, yes, I’d love to know their INTENTIONS, even if circumstances delay things.
xelav said on January 7, 2013
fiat has a nice 1.8tb (turbobenzina) engin which gave 200hp in the lancia delta.
Thylmuc said on January 7, 2013
And iirc, even more in the 159 and Giulietta. But it is not certified for the 9-3, and will hence require more engineering than the Diesel engines which are very similar to the Opel ones.
Harriet said on January 7, 2013
NEVs must let people know that Saab still exists, step one; step two is not so much the suppliers but who is going to sell these cars. The problem with Fiat is interesting since so many former Saab dealers are now selling…Fiats! (or at least trying to sell them).
TTAero said on January 7, 2013
It’s good to se nevs are discussing with supplyers.
It’t nevs are hireing staff.
It’s nice seeing nevs isn’t all about apperences.
In my world, it’s all about the product and the spirit it made of.
To start selling, marketing anything before they got a car to sell, or at least got everything in place to go production preps.
Take your time, take the steps needed.
If nevs can come up with a sellable product, that in it self is good marketing.
JåJ might have liked a little less public management during the Spyker era. The nevs seems to be more of that school as well
Angelo V. said on January 7, 2013
I think most of us agree that Saab had a good product to sell. How did that work out?
scand said on January 7, 2013
Cant say it surprises me that some suppliers don’t want to play ball. Many were burnt twice, and while no supplier company would not like to get more business, I’m sure they are looking at the overall economics (or lack of) of the project.
Modern car manufacturing is a high volume (and continuity) business. Its not going to be economic for them to do a run or 10 – or even 20 000 units. Same, i would imagine for the suppliers. Do you hire a bunch of people , just to let them go again after that run is done? Do you run the line super slow to keep people employed ?
One thing you probably cant do is run that production line with half or less of the people that were there the last time.
Kimberly said on January 7, 2013
Fiat engines? Really? Is it the 1.8L E.torQ, with all of 117hp?
Good luck with that.
. . .or perhaps the JTD? Hmm, well, the RPM range of diesel doesn’t really mesh well with sports sedan vehicles. There have been exceptions (335d) but not many. Sure they are torquey but I’m unconvinced.
Thylmuc said on January 8, 2013
The Fiat engine is more or less identical to the engine Saab has hithertoo got from Opel. And, as xelav pointed out, there is a 1.75 litre turbo petrol engine with 173 kW (235 hp) from Fiat,and hence, very Saabish, though that would require engineering and certification.
Thylmuc said on January 8, 2013
Saab 9-5 TiD: 1956 cc, 117 kW, 350 Nm@1750upm
Alfa 159 JTD: 1956 cc, 125 kW, 360 Nm@1750upm
tianalfred said on January 8, 2013
i was told just now NEVS will build a plant and localize traditional vehicle and EVs in Qingdao, Shandong, home of NEVS founder Mr. Jiang, can any one confirm this?
Kimberly said on January 8, 2013
How about asking the same exact question three more times? I mean, someone with the answer might have missed the three times you’ve posted it so far.
tianalfred said on January 8, 2013
NEVS signed an agreement with Tsingtao government and local financial organization to invest 10 billion RMB to produce traditional saab and electric saab in Tsingtao, shandong province, hometown of Kai Johan Jiang. The planned annual capacity is 400,000 units.
NEVS, as a foreign company, doesnot have qualification to produce cars in china unless it has a JV with local chinese automakers.
Thylmuc said on January 8, 2013
Source, pls
Thylmuc said on January 8, 2013
Found it:
http://chinaautoweb.com/2013/01/nevs-to-build-saabs-in-qingdao/
That would be an interesting development, to say the least.
kochje said on January 8, 2013
Well done search Thylmuc.
It now would be good if NEVS was asked to comment on this news.
In the past this point has come up a lot of times; ” why building cars in Trollhättan for the Chinese market?” Now this is an answer; they don’t. They will build a factory with a capacity of 400.000 cars per annum. So what is the plan for the site at THT? R&D and production for the ROW?
Come up NEVS; communicate.
tianalfred said on January 8, 2013
NEVS, as a foreign company, has no qualification to produce cars alone in china. It has to do it through JV with local automaker. In this sense NEVS may do it through local partnership. Does that mean NEVS has decided finally to restart current 9-3 production ? Dropped THT?
Harriet said on January 8, 2013
and who is going to warranty these cars? and then what happens when we need service? Where are the dealers coming from?