The difference between real and fake turbos
January 23, 2013 in Technical
Click for high-resolution photo (turbo on the left is fake, turbo on the right is genuine)
Yesterday we had an interesting question to the guys working at Maptun Performance from one of our readers. He asked why some turbos cost between 2-300 dollars and the one from Maptun was so expensive? The answer was pretty simple, most often the cheap turbos out on the market are faked copies as Maptun only sell genuine turbos. After a bit of research we’ve even found that some companies sell these faked copies as genuine at the price of a genuine turbo.
So how do you know if what you’re buying is the real thing or a copy?. The answer, look for the logo. On all TD04HL Mitsubishi turbo’s which was used by Saab in the high power models of the 9-5 and 9-3, has the Mitsubishi logo on the exhaust housing right next to the beginning of the article number of the turbo, as seen on the turbo on the top (logo 89-11300). The fake copy version on the left does not have a logo but only the article number of the product.
By comparing the fake copy, on the left and the genuine on the right, you’ll also see that the waste-gate is of a much weaker construction than the genuine (right) version which often lead to waste-gate failure and also miss-alignment of the waste-gate compared to what is commanded by the engine management software.
When replacing a turbo with one you’ve bought compare the fan-blades of the compressor as these are normally of a much more rough cut and not as well machined in the copied version compared with the genuine. Reduced performance and failure is fairly common with these copied version, especially on tuned cars.
Garrett GT1752 turbos normally used on all low-pressure turbo engines in Saab has the name GARRETT written on the compressor housing, the copied versions do not have this text but only the type GT1752 written on it. There are many companies selling faked versions of the GT17 which is only natural as its widely used in many brands around the world.
JasonPowell said on January 23, 2013
Thanks for adding photos, this should help to make sure you are getting what you pay for when getting replacement parts.
Joel said on January 23, 2013
Wow, thanks for this… the genuine one on the right looks so much better, much “cleaner” and “crisper” in the images but unless I’d seen them side-by-side I’d have had no idea.
Angelo V. said on January 23, 2013
How many years or miles of driving should one expect from a factory Saab turbo? My ’04 ARC is the 220 HP engine. I’ve never had any issues—-but am curious if I should expect to need to replace the turbo after a certain amount of time even if the mileage is low (i.e. gasket failures or something else that has to do with time and not mileage). If a turbo replacement is needed—-are there aftermarket options that can cost less and still perform as well or better than a factory replacement?
Tim said on January 23, 2013
Aftermarket turbos,… NO… the only thing that works is genuine, in your car its a Mitsubishi TD04HL-15
As for milage, it has more to do with maintenance, drive-style and oil changes than anything else, as P-A stated, you should change oil at minimum every 10’000 km’s. Normally one should not load the engine with more than 3000 rpm’s if its not at normal operating temperature. I’ve seen turbos that only lasted 3 years and 100k km’s because the driver would go full throttle with an engine below freezing temperatures…
Angelo V. said on January 24, 2013
That could be good news for my car. I change the oil and use synthetic—-probably about every 3000 miles or so. I keep an eye on the “turbo” gauge and generally drive gently—-definitely no full throttle with a cold engine. But I will say, I’ve heard our turbos like cold weather in general.
coggs said on January 24, 2013
>>I’ve heard our turbos like cold weather in general.<<
Not sure I'd say the like cold weather in general. They are certainly more efficient since cold air is more dense. But as you say, if the oil lubricating them is moving like molases then one is nuts to push them until the oil is flowing freely.
I'm not a mechanic, but I play one on the internet.
zippy said on January 25, 2013
God I miss my Saab.
Simon said on January 24, 2013
I’ve never had any problem with the turbo of my Saab 9-3 Linear 2003 sport sedan (4 cyl. low pressure) after 314,000 km. I always replace the oil with Mobil1, 0W40 every year or every 15000km.
GerritN said on January 24, 2013
1999 9-5
Oil changes with fully synthetic every 5,000 miles.
Driven carefully, my wife, not really the racing kind.
96,000 miles, no warning, kaboom, end of turbo.
My humble opinion, it’s a crapshoot. like with any engine component.
Sometimes things just break. Sometimes you’re lucky and it happens in the warranty period.
Most of the time after the warranty expires, but that’s just because nowadays cars survive their warranty
by many years.
You have an older car, reckon with, at least, spending $1,000 per year on it.
Angelo V. said on January 24, 2013
How much was the turbo replacement, parts and labor—-did you get it fixed or trade the car with the blown turbo?
GerritN said on January 24, 2013
$1,600 parts + labor.
We got the car fixed, as long as the engine holds out we’ll keep driving it.
It’s now at 146,000 miles. The only thing that worries me a bit is the oil consumption, but it’s cheaper to add a quart every two months than tearing the engine down. The only problem with the coachwork is that the front of the rear fenders starts rotting, this seems to be a common problem. Last fall I took the grinder and cut one fender down to the bone. A lot of plate-metal was completely corroded away underneath the paint but the support steel was still good. I repaired everything with Bondo, resprayed and it looks great again. The other fender will be done when Spring comes. Btw, my Viggen has the same problem with rusting in exactly the same place, but much, much less severe than the 9-5. My advice is that when you think you see rust or bubbles in those spots to start grinding down that area immediately and see what’s going on. But I seem to have digressed from the original subject, sorry.
Thylmuc said on January 24, 2013
I have a 2.2 TiD, so not directly comparable. At about 250,000 km (at around the time when also the injection pump died) a noticed a reduced torque at non-full rpm. I got the information that this could be the result of wearing in the turbine blades themselves. I still drive with that same turbo, though.
Peter Gilbert said on January 24, 2013
I should not writ on this subject because of auto-suggestion! But in 3 million miles of driving I have never had replace a Turbo in any of my Saabs! My SPG went over a million miles on the original. This I have heard of in Semi-Truck engines but never in a gas engine. There are a few million mile cars now but the Saab as far as I know is the only turbo-engined car.
I have always used synthetic oil even with my 1978 99 Turbo. Conventional oil is just not an option. If air forces use synthetic for their jet engines so should a turbo engine in a gas car.
zippy said on January 25, 2013
Fake turbos?! Scary stuff and quite dangerous I’d have thought!
dickerin said on January 29, 2013
The one on the left shows no blades. Are you saying that it is not a functioning turbocharger at all?