Whats happening next at NEVS?
January 17, 2013 in News
Before christmas we heard that NEVS had a number of things on the way, the logo was one of them. Well thats done, whats next?
The next big thing that we can expect from NEVS is the announcement of a new CEO which will run the daily operations of the company. This CEO will most likely also be highly engaged in constructing the different departments that will run the company.
So NEVS have guys now working on development, design (they keep this secret), production, so whats left? The next logical step should be the marketing and sales departments. Before cars start rolling down the line, it could be a good idea to know where to sell them which is why a marketing and sales department probably will be one of the items on the list of positions to fill fairly soon.
Needless to say a big number of positions need to be filled and we’ll probably see a lot of development in this sector.
Dzmitry said on January 17, 2013
How could you comment this?
National Electric Vehicles Sweden, the company that owns the Saab brand, is planning to restart production of the Saab 9-3 later this year, with an electric version following in 2014. But the cars will be built in China rather at Saab’s Trollhattan factory, in a change to NEVS’s original plan.
NEVS has signed a deal with a Chinese investment company to build cars in Qingdao, and the city’s government has bought a 22 per cent share in the firm. Reports from China suggest that both electric and conventionally-powered cars will be built as part of the agreement.
NEVS owns the rights to build the last Saab 9-3, along with the electric ePower version that never made production. It also owns the right to use the Saab name. Originally NEVS said it would only produce Saabs at Trollhattan.
China’s government wants to get half a million electric vehicles on the country’s roads within two years, so the market potential for electric Saabs is high. However, the 9-3 is elderly and the only model NVS has – it may not be enough to keep the firm afloat.
Despite the government’s intentions, China has little infrastructure to support large numbers of electric cars, while new deals between local investors and foreign companies require lengthy and complex state approval that could take up to 18 months. This alone could make it impossible to start production this year.
http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/industry/saab-9-3-restart-production-later-year
Tim said on January 17, 2013
The Autocar article is wrong! I have spoken to NEVS directly and it is very clearly stated in the press release plus an article here on SU!
JohnA said on January 17, 2013
Totally irresponsible to publish crap like that! Makes me angry.
phermansson said on January 17, 2013
They only come to the second sentence before it goes wrong. “But the cars will be built in China rather at Saab’s Trollhattan factory, in a change to NEVS’s original plan.”.
That is wrong, Nevs said that the China factory will start to build cars when the Trollhättan capacity is maxed.
Dzmitry said on January 17, 2013
what exactly is wrong? dates or plans to produce 9-3 in China?
Tim said on January 17, 2013
The fact that cars will be built in China rather than Sweden, that is wrong.
I have e-mailed Nick at autocar and asked them to correct this. There has been several interviews with NEVS top managers and I have personally spoken to them. Production will start in Trollhättan, once it has reached peak capacity additional production will start up in China.
Its pretty simple really, the deal for production in China was finalized one week ago and the plans for building the factory has not even landed on the drawing board. It will take 2-3 years just to get the buildings up and then another year to install all the production equipment. We can probably expect production in China to start running in 2015-2016 at the absolute earliest…
Dzmitry said on January 17, 2013
thanks, guys. Just wondering how they get the information regarding such “deals”.
Tim said on January 17, 2013
They get information because NEVS sent it out to everyone via a press-release. That same press-release was published here on SU as well. For accurate info on SAAB, rely on us first of all because we talk directly with the top managers at NEVS!
Dzmitry said on January 17, 2013
Tim, thanks a lot, now that’s clear.
wfg said on January 17, 2013
Although I am excited on the latest news that NEVS plans to built car, please allow me to bring up some questions on this regard:
1. The (obvious) facts:
- NEVS hast the IP for the latest 9-3 except the gasoline engines
- NEVS hast the building sand I assume the machines to manufacturer and assambly the cars
- small facelift-like changes do not require new machines while most likely some suppliers should adapt their parts to let the new car look diefferent than the 9-3 MY 2011
- NEVS may have good contracts with the suppliers
- Unfortunately for the people around Trollhätten but furtunately to NEVS, they may be able to successfully recruit enough workers
2. The hard but realistic achievements (as obviously NEVS is pretty straigth in succeeding things):
- NEVS may be able to start the production of the 9-3 that has been adpoted to a new powertrain delivered by e.g. Fiat, BMW, Toyota how knows.
-the facelift is rather easy to achieve without major chancges in the manufatury line
- the people are recruited and trained
- the suppliers can deliver
- many of the previous national and local representatives accept to serve also as representatives for teh new Saab/NEVS
- NEVS has an agreement with Saab parts to ensure the spare parts for the new car
3. The obstacles:
- even if the new car is marriged with an well performing powertrain (engine, gearbox, chassis) does it not need lots of testing?
- does it not need further crash tests and national/continental homologation?
- the former Saab needed almost 2 years to develop the sportscombi for the 9-3, how it can be that fast in developing the work together of a new powertrain and the previous Saab 9-3?
- can Saab Parts Inc. really act that fast to include all these new parts?
- is the car after such short development time really good?
Honestly, the guys at NEVS seem to be very smart fellows who know exactly what they do. Thus here is my guess for their way:
4. The solution:
- NEVS has an agreement to use also the powertrain from teh previous 9-3. No way? Please consider that GM gets a lot of bad press these days how the handeled teh Saab issue…and after all its better for GM that the new Saab/NEVS is sold using GM powertrains instead of that of any other compeditor -right?
- by that way, no extensiv testing is required but a nice facelift that does not need lots of development
- I drive a 9-3 2.0T XWD MY11, this car is absolutely NOT outdated in terms of technique and matches perfectly with the respective competitores on road handling, power, brakes etc. (at least my Hirsch version)….(though it cant match with my old 9-5 Aero/Abbott)
This is my guess and you know what? I would be very happy if they do that way and will buy such car when the time comes to exchange my 9-3 (ok, I shall never give away my 9-5 tough).
This are just so guess from a guy who is far from car business but wants Saab to survice under the wise guidence of NEVS.
Tim said on January 17, 2013
I think it will be difficult to put such a GM 2,0 engine into a 9-3 because it wont be long before it will no longer fill the requirements of the new environmental laws.
To get a 9-3 into the low-tax segment which is almost a requirement today if you want to sell a car we’re most likely looking at a 1,4 or 1,6 liter diesel turbo engine. In order to go below 99 grams which will be the new requirements we’re also most likely looking at some kind of hybrid solution.
An updated 9-3 with hybrid drive or hybrid boost together with an economy diesel engine can go very far and sell a lot! Saab has proven the crash safety which most other brands in that category do not and it also has the reputation for quality which goes a long way! =)
wfg said on January 17, 2013
Yes Tim, I agree with you on your high opinion on Saab cars but do you think one can develop a car with an entire new powertrain that fast? For sure the “old” engines (the 2.0 Diesel as well as Gasoline) has been further developped as they are still sold in teh Opel Insignia…
Again, my points are not related what will be important in the future but only what is achievable now (meaning within 1-2 years). If it woudl be done that way, we woudl get a very solid, save and longlasting vehicle anyway of whioch the engines are up-to-date as they are currently sold in multiple GM cars.
I dont want to bring Sabb under the leaky umbrella of GMbut in terms of development time and pressure to bring up a soldi valuable product that may be the only way in teh nex couple of months/1-2 years.
Tim said on January 17, 2013
I dont think its a problem. I’ve heard the engineers at Saab work a lot faster than 6 months on getting a new engine installed and ready to go. If they really want to they can probably do it.
if the GM 2,0 diesel engine shows up in Saab, its most likely a short-term thing. The insignia has only two versions which pass todays reduced-tax category of 119 grams, both with a manual gear box and 130 / 160 hp. In a year or two that engine will no longer be good enough.
I’d put my money on the 1,9 TTiD fiat diesel engine. That engine is superb in all ways and can most likely be developed a lot further than it already has.
hughw said on January 17, 2013
A diesel engine will be a hard sell in the US
Tim said on January 17, 2013
Well in all honesty, I think it’ll take some time before we see new Saab’s in the US. Saab never made a single cent from their US Sales, it was all about volume…
I do hope that a good gasoline/ethanol engine will be included that could sell well in the US as well. I’m no diesel fan either =(
Angelo V. said on January 20, 2013
Diesels last a long time…and no, they’re not killing the planet.
Angelo V. said on January 20, 2013
For some U.S. buyers, a diesel wouldn’t be a hard sell at all. There were/are a core group who would like an affordable diesel in a Saab skin. Peugeot sold diesels in respectable numbers when they were here. There are people who want “nicer than a Volkswagen” but can’t afford that Mercedes. If Saab captured that group of buyers with a well made diesel, they’d have some sales.
dave said on January 17, 2013
+1 on the Fiat engine
Christian said on January 17, 2013
Guys, please just forget the idea that new engines or complete powertrains may be introduced in case of a production re-start by end of this year. This would be impossible! Qualification, homologation etc. just takes far too much time and would also not be worth the cost. I would even doubt that we see a major facelift. Moreover, could please someone confirm wfg’s first statement that NEVS have the IP for the latest 9-3 except the gasoline engines, maning that only diesels would be available?! This is rather new to me, I haven’t read that anywhere here.
wfg said on January 17, 2013
Christian, I completely agree with you, that’s why I considered that they will have to take the “old” powerplants. Regarding the IP for the Diesels, it was my guess as originally these engines came from Fiat as far as I can remember while teh Gasoline engine are deveolped under GM’s roof. So dont take my guess as proven, but its just my guess bulding on my knowledge on the origin of the individual powerplants.
Tim said on January 17, 2013
You’re right wfg!
NEVS does not have the IP rights to the T8 gasoline engine and is not allowed to use it unless they make a deal with GM.
Christian said on January 17, 2013
That makes things even more problematic, don’t you think? Thanks anyway for clarifying.
Tim said on January 17, 2013
It sure does…
phermansson said on January 17, 2013
What about the BMW engines?
Christian said on January 17, 2013
Unlikely, if you ask me. They burned their fingers with supplying samples engines to SWAN for which they were not paid due to the bankruptcy.They won’t make that same mistake twice. Plus, there engines are yet not qualified either.
Angelo V. said on January 20, 2013
How is it the same mistake twice though? They wouldn’t be selling engines to SWAN this time.
Christian said on January 17, 2013
Well, a guess is still a guess, not a fact. But OK, despite the IP issue, the question remains whether NEVS will be able to source any component, part or system from GM (and I believe there are a few), because it depends on GM’s willingness to supply them. In any case, these are the kinds of questions that are of any particular interest at the moment, all else (discussions about upgrades, facelifts or the like) are just pointless, IMHO. I’m glad we seem to share that opinion. Even though I wish NEVS would succeed in bringing the lines back running, I doubt that they will reach that goal in this short period of time, if they manage to get all former suppliers back on board at all. If this fails – and again, I truly hope it won’t – any announcement of a postponed SOP would result in a lack of trust into NEVS business plan.
Angelo V. said on January 17, 2013
Knowing the bungling fools at GM—-it might very well play out like this (We can only hope.): GM refuses to supply NEVS with anything. NEVS goes their own way (no choice in the matter) and figures out a way to make it all work. NEVS is very successful with Saab. GM then makes overtures to sell parts to NEVS once they see that Saabs are selling. GM suddenly looks to get involoved, after the fact. They’re like children at GM—-babies.
Christian said on January 17, 2013
Well, yes, maybe they are. However, some of the managers there have changed, so I do have some hope left. Not wanting to make SAAB cars under their regime any more is one thing, selling parts to NEVS that do not even necessarily require any changes or requalification (all tools should still exist) could be a business case that they might not want to miss. Anything that fills free production capacities nowadays should be welcome.
baas900i said on January 17, 2013
hope nevs don’t end up with battery (japanese technology) problems like the dreamliner….
Angelo V. said on January 17, 2013
Do they have a Mission Statement yet?
Oh, and if you talk to them, here is a question that thousands of us are interested in getting an answer to: “What approximate timeline can you give us for when new NEVS Saabs will be sold in the United States again?”
Gargamel said on January 17, 2013
Please start production soon, I need a new car! Thought about bying another brand now, but I can definatly wait until fall, a 9-3X whould be perfect
saabyurk said on January 17, 2013
Hold on if you can! My wife and I decided two cars makes no sense (both retired) and we decided to share one vehicle, with AWD and high ground clearance a must. She had a 2001 Pontiac Aztek, and I have a 2004 9-3 ARC. I couldn’t find any 9-3X or 9-4X to show her so we opted for a 2013 Ford Escape SE with 2.0 Ecoboost and 4WD. I thought it would be somewhat Saab-like. Well, the motor is Saab-like, but that’s about all. The incredibly vague, rubbery, and stiff electric-assist steering is driving me nuts (Actually, the Aztek had much better steering)! Not to mention important lighting controls hidden completely out of sight behind the steering wheel which, by the way, seems to be made out of a friction-less Teflon-like material.
My only hope is that it holds its value well so a trade-in might be feasible some day. At least I might get my old 1966 MC850 on the road this summer. That should put the Saab smile back on my face!
Angelo V. said on January 17, 2013
I’ve spewed hate toward the Aztec here—-but I will say, they did a good job with some of the interior layout on it—-and the idea of being able to camp out of the back (with the tent) was very cool. It’s funny—-like a lot of things GM, they didn’t stay with it long enough to make changes that would have made it appeal to more people.
saabyurk said on January 17, 2013
If you could get by the looks and the horrible reliability, it was a great utilitarian vehicle with over 90 cu ft of cargo space. Could haul a 4X8 sheet of plywood laying flat. We hauled alpacas in it (almost got a motor cyclist to wreck because he started laughing so hard). GM could have fixed all of that and would have had a great vehicle but pulled the plug instead.
GerritN said on January 17, 2013
I never understood the controversy around the Aztec. Sure, it’s a quirky looking car, but, hey, so is a Saab!
Angelo V. said on January 17, 2013
I think for the Aztec, it was quirky in a negative way—-compared to the Esdel. Saab was quirky, but generally not offensive. Buick took the Aztec and made the Rendezvous, which I considered to be an acceptable design—-not beautiful, but not too bad to look at. It made me think that if GM would have stayed with the program—-they could have massaged the Aztec to take away some of the most disturbing angles—-could have somehow made the design work. And the utility of the vehicle is undeniable—-being able to carry 4′ x 8′ lumber boards—-pitch a tent—-haul people around in it—-it was a workhorse for sure. I didn’t realize it had poor reliability.
hilmar said on January 17, 2013
Hi Gargamel, buy a used Saab, I got one, even a 9-3 X is available ( here in Germany at autoscout 24).
GerritN said on January 17, 2013
With respect to homologation and engines. Could it be that NEVS is planning to use Chinese engines and is planning to only sell the gasoline/diesel powered 9-3 in China? A Chinese power plant would make homologation in China much easier and since it is being sold solely in China NEVS would not have to deal with the wrath of potential Western Saab buyers who will find a Chinese engine unacceptable.
NEVS only wants to survive at this point, they are not in the game to keep us happy.
BMW Rider said on January 17, 2013
There’s an awful lot that has to happen for them to start selling cars anywhere. If they make the 9-3 again they don’t have a parts distribution system – that is not part of what NEVS acquired, so they have to start their own or make agreements with the independent group.
They have to have a dealer network setup. Don’t bet that the dealers that are doing Saab service right now are just going to jump right back in with Saab 2.0 after being burned once, especially without a solid foundation for distribution in place.
GM didn’t want to have anything to do with Chinese involved Saab, so it’s a stretch to think they will embrace supplying Saab again with anything purely on principle. But NEVS needs to find all kinds of suppliers in that case, not just engine but every part on the car with GM on it – and there are lots of those, hundreds if not thousands of parts could be affected. Even small changes in part numbers, bills of materials, etc for the car has a cascading effect from the parts side to the service and technical side (manuals, documentation, testing, verification and logistics).
NEVS wasn’t interested in supporting current Saab owners since they didn’t take over parts or service issues or warranties for existing client base. The customers’ loyalty isn’t a given. Despite how it reads here sometimes it has to be earned, especially if you are talking 30-40K US purchase. I tried to be part of the solution once when I bought my 2011, somebody else can take one for the team the next time. I’m interested to see what happens but I’m not in a hurry to buy another new Saab from these guys.
Tim said on January 17, 2013
Saab Automobile Parts AB has created a parts distribution network in most of the world today and they are working on expanding it every single day. It’s working better and better and we’ve received very good feedback from dealers all over the world that things are getting much better!
I dont see dealers as being a problem due to the initial low volumes, I have spoken to around 30 dealers in Sweden for example and they are all interested in starting to sell Saabs again. I can imagine that the interest is similar in other parts of the world.
BMW Rider said on January 17, 2013
Saab Parts and Nevs are 2 different entities, Nevs didn’t want the parts division. The parts division may be alive and kind of well for previous Saabs, as long as it isn’t a NG 9-5, but when Nevs starts getting turn signal stalks and engines and whatever else from a different supplier the parts game changes and Saab parts is not obligated to do anything with that. It’s no small task and no guarantee on return.
I can’t see how no dealership network is not a problem -Things must be different in Sweden, maybe they provide cars to rental fleets, police and taxis. In the US those sales don’t exist and dealers in the US were left high and dry and left to deal with unhappy customers on their own. Too many other options are out there for dealers that are less risky. As much as I like the 9-3 to the general buying public a warmed over, 10 year old 9-3 from the buyer of parts of failed car company won’t bring in a lot of showroom traffic here. They have more than a lot of work to do to change that.
Angelo V. said on January 17, 2013
Rider: I’m in the Washington, DC area. Not sure where you are—-but I can assure you that here, and in other parts of the northeast, if a new 9-3 was available (warmed over version of the most recent 9-3) particularly if there’s a full line—-convertible, sedan, wagon—-they would sell in similar numbers to pre-bankruptcy. Since the 9-5 is no longer available, they would also pick up some of those sales. Also, no, there aren’t too many options available for those dealers—-particularly the stand alone dealers. Markets like ours are saturated—-they aren’t making franchises available and in fact in some cases, they are consolidating and removing dealers. I am by no means a blind supporter of NEVS—-but I sure hope they view the negatives as challenges—-as a chance to prove how good they are. You seem to be viewing it as an opportunity to throw your hands up and get rid of Saab for good—-give up. I can tell you—-in Saab’s darkest days and GM’s darkest days—-2008—-there was still a plan that could have been implemented to make Saab profitable. If the right steps had been taken back then, Saab would be making money for GM now—-profitable, new models on the horizon—-strong sales. The fact that Saab has been mismanaged in the past by GM and again by Spyker—-doesn’t mean that we should just quit on them. I am most disturbed by many aspects of how NEVS has represented themselves so far (or how they HAVEN’T represented themselves). But your general premise seems to be “it’ll never work.” and I disagree. I do agree though, that they have a lot of work to do—-and I think they’re missing the target in some key areas of consumer awareness—-burying Saab deeper. But that isn’t about the product—-it’s about NEVS business practices. The 9-3 can still work.
BMW Rider said on January 17, 2013
I’m in Florida, there are lots of used Saabs here, but most of the general public has written them off. I respectfully disagree about the 9-3 being a success without major overhaul of features. The world has moved far beyond what the 9-3 had even in 2011. Materials in other cars are better for the same money (vert being the exception maybe), connectivity in the car beyond just blue tooth phone is needed in that class of car since today it is in lower end Fords and Hyundais and Kias. , , that’s a huge change and huge investment for a startup company to make that work and not look amateurish.
I just don’t see Saab getting conquest sales (new people buying the brand) without major changes to the 9-3 to bring it up to date and Nevs are going to have a hard time doing that in a short time frame and they need conquest sales because they need volume and profit on each car to make money. They might sell the “old” 9-3 with small changes to some loyal followers but I wonder how many who are screaming for the 9-3 to go back into production will part with hard earned money to buy one (new, not used) if it actually shows up – and if there is actually a showroom within an hour drive of them if at all. After the celebration subsided when Muller bought the company apparently not enough of the revelers were willing to buy a new Saab so the company went under, what’s changed other than the calendar and I guess the logo?
I’ve owned 6 Saabs, 5 of them 9-3′s and I own a NG 9-5, I’m not anti Saab. Every time I drive the 9-5 I think what a wonderful car, but what wasted potential, I’d have loved to see what they could have done with that car in 2 or 3 years of evolution. We agree on wanting to see Saab live, maybe we disagree on how to make that happen or at least the approach that is visible so far by Nevs. Maybe they have an ace up their sleeve….
Tim said on January 17, 2013
The thing is that you dont have to see it… yet… because you dont have all the details and we’ll have to wait until NEVS let us know how they work things out. But I know that those guys are really sharp and they will get things done! =)
Angelo V. said on January 20, 2013
Conquest sales would come to Saab, even with a mildly refreshed 9-3——if they decontended it and lowered the price. A lot of young people I’ve worked with would have loved a 9-3 but couldn’t afford it. Ended up in Toyotas or Hondas.
SaabKen said on January 17, 2013
Are these pics (ePower 9-3) real ? Never seen them, esp. that interior with the center console going all the way to the back, dividing the rear seats, like the Chevy Volt:
http://www.autoblog.com/2013/01/17/saab-9-3-production-to-start-in-china-in-2013/
Joel said on January 17, 2013
I think that was a prototype one. I remember seeing a video of the e-power on here, and youtube, being driven around t’hatn a while back.
saaburban said on January 17, 2013
The suppliers were the ones that gave the final blow to saab, they had been screwed with big time and were sick of not being paid. They stopped delivering.
They had à year earlier accepted to write off Saabs debt, in the first reconstruction. In 2013 many suppliers have got letters from the lawers to pay back millions to the bancruptcy estate, since they had broken the law by doing business, delivering to à company that obviously was in financial ruin.
So in 2013 its time again, suppliers are promised à yearly production of thousands of cars by à company without, à sales network, marketing department, production personal and absolutly no trackreckord in the autoindustry.
- Its à chicken n the egg situation. N’ I’m not sure how this will fly in the end, pouched egg or deep fried chicken!
Angelo V. said on January 17, 2013
But isn’t this what faces start-ups like Fisker and Tesla face too?
BMW Rider said on January 17, 2013
Fisker and Tesla don’t have the bad history of going through bankruptcy, being liquidated and sold in pieces. And they are building high end cars – that’s not Nevs target from what I understand. In the lower and mid range exclusivity is a negative for the manufacturer.
Angelo V. said on January 18, 2013
Actually, I see more opportunity in lower and mid-range than electric sports cars that cost over $100,000. Beyond Jay Leno and some other rich people who want a new toy of the week, I don’t see these cars moving in numbers to sustain a profit. NEVS has the Saab name too—-already established in many parts of the world. Finally, I think it really boils down to financing and financial partners. If NEVS has backing, they should be able to work deals out with suppliers. That history of going through bankruptcy and being liquidated—-and sold—-might be better in many ways than not having ANY history and throwing pie in the sky. Go NEVS!
JH said on January 19, 2013
+ 1