9-3N Navigation System (First Pictures?)

Tim in December advanced a rumour of what in-car multimedia system NEVS is planing to install in the 9-3N, albeit with the introduction of the facelift.

Nothing is confirmed yet, but if you dig into www.saabcars.com you will find that different pictures of the car are shown to different markets.

For example the interior of the car. While you will see no pictures of the interior if you read the site in english, you will see the known interior of the 9-3 if you read the site in Swedish.

saab_aero_9-3_09

This more due to the fact, that they are selling the car in Sweden, so they have to show the product with more detail in Sweden.

But what happens if you read the side in Chinese ( the third language available in the menu)?

Well than you get to see this

saab_aero_9-3_09_china

This looks to me more like a CGI than a real picture, but it gives us a glimpse of how the interior may look like with a different in-car multimedia system, and I like what I see.

I t looks very much like the Parrot Asteroid, but it doesn’t have that small removable faceplate making the screen look bigger, maybe 7″ compared to the 6,2″ of the Astroid smart.

Now let us hope that the guys at NEVS make a good integration of the system in the car so it feels like an OEM system rather than a aftermarket car stereo.

And a little quest for the weekend, is anyone seeing more than three differences between both pictures?

Andreas
Member
2 years 7 months ago

Actually not bad but the interior does look dated overall. What I most react about is the very ugly gear lever on the automatic version. But navigation is a must so it is good.

stathis
Member
2 years 7 months ago

i agree for the gear lever,it’s very ungly..

zippy
Member
2 years 7 months ago

An automatic gearbox has no place in a Saab IMO.

stathis
Member
2 years 7 months ago

why there is a clutch to the automatic version?????

dcpattie
Member
2 years 7 months ago

Good find – and that automatic lever looks so 2004!

Bravada from GMI
Member
2 years 7 months ago
I don’t quite care if the Parrot is nicely integrated or looks aftermarket, if I can get the car at EUR 25 000 with one, preferably with a diesel (I love my TTiD!) or at least a hybrid drivetrain. I have a Parrot bluetooth fitted in my bargain-basement 2011 Linear and if it could be expanded to add navigation and be servicable from the wheel, I would be a happy camper. There is nothing than can make the interior look fresh and contemporary apart from a complete redesign, so I guess integrating the nav should be the least of Saab’s… Read more »
Oskar Lind Jonsson
Member
2 years 7 months ago

All differences I can see is that the chinese picture has an automatic gearbox, different radio and the buttons at the handle.

Mailr
Member
2 years 7 months ago
And if you compare the pictures bit for bit you can see it’s a Photoshop job. That’s why it’s an automatic with a clutch. So, obviously this picture is made to show a Chinese version. If it’s intended to show the interiors of the first series of the EV version it makes sense, because the EV is unlikely to have a manual gearbox, and in order to make a stopgap solution to fit a status displays for the battery quickly it makes a lot of sense to just develop an android app for the Astroid – my guess is that… Read more »
Angelo V.
Member
2 years 7 months ago

I like it. As far as being “dated:” Try showing these photos to someone who isn’t a Saab enthusiast—-random people who aren’t as “into” Saab as most people who visit SU are. I think sometimes things look dated to us because familiarity breeds contempt. And yes, maybe because after so many years, things are dated in this series. But the same interior shown to someone who hasn’t seen it 1000 times already—-my guess is that people would see the uncluttered, high quality, well laid out cockpit that’s there, and they’d like it.

Bernard
Member
2 years 7 months ago

Good point about the shifter, no one but a Saab geek would care or even notice. If there’s one thing we know about Saab geeks, it’s that they will start a “bring back the old shifter” campaign when it eventually changes design.

That being said, the metal-look plastic trim is 10 years out of date. There is no excuse for having that in a 2014 car.

Angelo V.
Member
2 years 7 months ago
You might be right—-maybe they could have found something other than that look. But on the other hand, I’m not a big believer in change for the sake of change. My ’04 Saab has that dark wood trim (almost black) that came in the ARC series. Linear had sort of a redwood and AERO had the brushed aluminum look. Personally, I’m really happy with the almost black wood—-I think it still looks great. But maybe NEVS was trying to “go AERO” with this interior treatment and hence the metal look. I still think they took things in the wrong direction.… Read more »
Quixcube
Member
2 years 7 months ago
The center stack flowing between the front seats dates it for me. Audi moved away from that in the 2008 A4. BMW moved away from it in 2005. Today the two parts but against each other in most every car, and it really changes the feel of the cabin. I am sure the designers say it creates “drama” or something like that. The old school skinny conjoined look here just seems dated. It also has the problem of not being big enough to include any useful controls in the center (which blows my mind because Saabs used to have so… Read more »
Angelo V.
Member
2 years 7 months ago
Good points but for me, it’s not an issue of whether it’s dated or not—-or what Audi is doing. The questions for me are do I like it? Does it work for me? The ignition location is dated too and I’d venture a guess that the illumination color at night is too. One of the things that really attracted me to Saab (9-5) in the first place was a big vertical stack on the dash instead of the more common horizontal. I love the way mine is angled, how it’s laid out too. Saabs in the ’80s had this sort… Read more »
TonymacUK
Member
2 years 7 months ago

Green night illumination is so restful to the eyes, much more so than the glaring red/orangey colour used by so many other manufacturers. But it`s academic really, NEVS/SAAB won`t be around that long.

Angelo V.
Member
2 years 7 months ago
Tony: Are you familiar with betting on American sports (especially football) and the term “over/under?” For those who don’t know: It’s one way to bet on a game. The total amount of points scored by both teams. Odds makers study the two teams and determine what they thing the total number of points will be in the game. If they figure the final score will be 31-20 for example, the total points scored would be 51. As a gambler, you bet on whether you think the total will be over 51 or under 51. I’m going to put the time… Read more »
TonymacUK
Member
2 years 7 months ago

Angelo; I`m familiar with the betting term over/under – under 5 would be my bet, but bear in mind I`ve had to eat my words once already!

Angelo V.
Member
2 years 7 months ago

Vegas lays odds on just about everything. i wonder if they’d entertain the idea of how many years Saab will be in business this time? I would have bet “over 5” with Muller and I would have lost.

saabyurk
Member
2 years 7 months ago

Reminds me when I parked my 2004 9-3 ARC with the push-button dash at the Park-n-Ride. I was backing in, and a woman who had just parked her new Mercedes C Class on my right stood there awhile looking inside my Saab. When I got out she said “Every time I see your car, I just have to admire that dash.”
Bring back the push-button dash!!! 🙂

hilmar
Member
2 years 7 months ago

Nice to see this system. BTW and OT: I thought about these headrests, they look a bit clumsy. Obviously you can´t shift them so why are they not integrated in the seat ? Too expensive? It would be a little more elegant.

SaabKen
Member
2 years 7 months ago
xelav
Member
2 years 7 months ago

I hope the system doesn’t consume too much of power, otherwise the range of the electric version decreases to a depressing low mileage . Still no news about a sportestate diesel version ? Got today another trade in insulting offer of my car. Thanks nevs , no one knows Saab is still alive. Spreading the word would help me a lot. But hey, I’m just a customer, who spend to much money on a car ( brand) which no one dares to trade in now.

Angelo V.
Member
2 years 7 months ago
Good lord, please tell me you’re joking about the NAV system possibly sucking too much juice and decreasing range? Another worry for me when I’m eventually forced into one of these almost cars? As for resale values—-my belief was and is that the long term health of the brand and long term profits for the new owner (whomever the new owner might have been) was worth extra effort to shore up the collapse and stop the bleeding immediately. That would have required a much faster production start-up of the 9-3 series, dealership agreements in any market that sold decent numbers… Read more »
Doug R.
Guest
2 years 7 months ago

Man nothing more to say… What a shame man.. not ever happening
Angelo… Maybe a Phoenix electric in 5 years if they make it til then,

Phillip
Guest
2 years 7 months ago

I still like the layout but at some stage I hope they improve the quality of the plastics. I had heard that GM had stopped Saab spending a few hundred extra bucks on each car to have much better quality plastics. I have a 2008 9-5 and the plastics on the doors show all sorts of marks and look cheap. This wasn’t the case for the model before 2006 where the interior still looked new after many years of wear. This is really important for me as a customer.

SaabKen
Member
2 years 7 months ago

+1 !

The ’07-> interior looks too stark and “econo-car”. Well, even many econo-cars these days have quite upscale-feeling interiors (Mazda 3 comes to mind). I really think NEVS should study VAG’s products and match their interior quality and looks.

Troels, Denmark
Member
2 years 7 months ago

Looking at – both – interior-pictures, I think that they look much more outdated and dull, than reality! The pictures are not taken from the best angle (more from drivers point would have been better), but more important is the dull lighting, which makes the surfaces look dark and dead…. I don’t think the black (artificial looking) front-screen is a good idea either… Some new – more modern – pictures or some well done photo-shopping might change a great deal in the appearance…

Angelo V.
Member
2 years 7 months ago

You make a valid point. The “lighting” of this image is gray—-like a rainy day, the absolute most depressing pits. The angle is from the rear seat passenger side. This should have been angled from the drivers headrest area, close to the drivers side B pillar looking from basically a drivers view, backed up a little to show more. With bright, positive lighting. I know, I know, it’s not a “photo.” All the more reason anything at all could have been done to make this look inviting.

Troels, Denmark
Member
2 years 7 months ago

+

Doug R.
Guest
2 years 7 months ago

9-3 looks dated,,, Hello.it is.. enough said.

hilmar
Member
2 years 7 months ago

No one is forcing you to buy one. 😉

Bradley Tallent
Guest
2 years 7 months ago

Good lord, will they ever get rid of that GM steering wheel? By the way when do we get to see previews of the new 9-3 overall new design?

TonymacUK
Member
2 years 7 months ago

Check out the interior of the new Honda Civic – especially the auto selector and bright metal trim. The SAAB is not as much outdated as some seem to think.

StefanH STHLM
Member
2 years 7 months ago

+1
I think a lot of new expensive cars have dull dashboards., and too few button……
I love the form of the 9-3 dashboard.

Aeronils
Member
2 years 7 months ago
Ok guys, what you want? a Saab after all. With a Saab dash, not a fashion one like todays style. that is really shortliving, and i will give you bet. Automobile industry is competing with a speedy new remodelling, ugly chrome used on wrong places just to look “rich”. And finally they look all about the same. A Saab is not a fashion styled car, to my opinion, the old dashes of the 9-3 and 9-5, very classy, sober looking and … very functional. I am not a fan as you understand maybe of the last tendency. Design of a… Read more »
Angelo V.
Member
2 years 7 months ago
I agree with you. Function over form on Saab. Honestly, I see nothing wrong with the seats/dash in the photos. “Updating” can be minor pieces of trim here and there. I’ve always liked the idea of developing a fundamentally sound car design, inside and out—-then keeping it and refining it/upgrading it year after year. “Exciting” to me is hearing that they’re making things more robust, more reliable, better—-things you CAN’T see. You can keep things somewhat fresh on the outside by offering new, bold colors (2 per year that keep changing) and new designs for the wheels and like I… Read more »
Troels, Denmark
Member
2 years 7 months ago

+++

Phillip
Guest
2 years 7 months ago

Yes I totally agree. Just improve the quality of the plastics at the same time.

Coke is it
Member
2 years 7 months ago
I must say that I thought the 9-3 felt really outdated back in 2009 when the 9-5NG was released. As soon as I ordered the 9-5 SC and sat in my old 9-3 MY08 I couldn’t get my new 9-5 SC soon enough to get to sit in a cockpit that felt modern (as long as you didn’t get it with the standard radio). Today, 4.5 years later the interior has been lifted to new levels in the competition. Volvo has really good interiors in the V40/S/V/XC60. Maybe a little to much of everything but they feel modern and that… Read more »
Angelo V.
Member
2 years 7 months ago
NEVS can absolutely deliver what you’re asking for (probably closer to 4 years, not 2) but from the tiny morsels of information they’ve bestowed upon us, they are choosing not to deliver what you and most other Saab owners want. They are making this choice at their own peril. It’s a pity because as NEVS goes, so goes Saab, at least for now. And maybe forever. Cats have 9 lives but I don’t think that’s true of automotive brands. This could be Saab’s last stand and unless things are far different than they appear—-and/or unless things change in a fundamental… Read more »
Doug R.
Guest
2 years 7 months ago
They may not make it in time, to ever see a Phoenix 93, I listened to an interview with the head of public relations for Saab/Nevs… 3 to 5 years at best and more than likely electric.. Even if they get the Phoenix done, the US market may be 6 years out. So, lets say if it takes 4 years for completion,,, the US may not see the car for 2 years from the start up. and Electric only. My feeling from the interview, is, Nevs has no interest in rushing back to America.. To be honest the hole future… Read more »
TonymacUK
Member
2 years 7 months ago

Doug, I`ve taken under 5 – give them a chance.

Angelo V.
Member
2 years 7 months ago

It’s so frustrating to watch them fail when they don’t have to.

Doug R.
Guest
2 years 7 months ago
To be honest Angelo,, It’s quite sad,, We try to hang on to hope. If you look at the business plan and break it down it simply smells here is some things on my mind. 1). They run a huge risk of reintroduction of a 12 year old car. The Vehicle, the 9-3 as of today will fall tremendously in the safety testing results due to the pedestrian regulations.. My understanding is China does not require the pedestrian testing. However other makers have designs incorporated in the bodies. Saab’s have always been known for safety as a selling point. Well… Read more »
phermansson
Member
2 years 7 months ago

So instead of constantly criticizing NEVS for what they are doing, perhaps you can layout a business plan with calculations on funding and tell us what exactly you would do and how! I’m looking forward to your business plan!

Doug R.
Guest
2 years 7 months ago
Tim I don’t know what the financial cash infusion is… Obviously it isn’t enough if you believe the above. I am sure your frustrated. I know how much the people at SU have dedicated to Saab. If they have financial restraints it doesn’t change the potential outcome. In fact, a under capitalized company has a huge chance of failure. I am also aware that Saab didn’t have other takers during the fire sale. Maybe you know what the Start up allowance was or is? Or the step finance in place.. If not than were assuming they have limited founds. Or… Read more »
Angelo V.
Member
2 years 7 months ago
“If you can’t run with the big dogs, stay on the porch.” That capsulizes everything, if the reason for the problems (as we see them) that are being discussed is due to shallow pockets. The business plan shown to bankruptcy receivers two years ago should have shown capital expenses and working capital for at least the first few years of operation. Maybe the right questions weren’t asked of this group to identify potential serious oversights on how to successfully restart this company and stay in it for a long time. Doug: Saab did have other potential “takers” during the bankruptcy… Read more »
Doug R.
Guest
2 years 7 months ago

Angelo you missed a major fact they can’t sell the current 9-3. Even in Europe. Pedestrian regulations… They have an exemption up to 1000 cars..very limited That is important. Which makes my case more alarming.

phermansson
Member
2 years 7 months ago
You didnt ask but I’ll give my opinion on this matter. Angelo is correct in the fact that NEVS has shown the bankruptcy admins a businessplan that is fully funded and with high potential of working out. But not only that, NEVS also got the blessing by Saab AB who were extremely reluctant to handing over rights to the Saab brand name to anyone in 2012. That to me is the biggest proof that NEVS has serious backing, and if that should fail, I can promise you that Saab AB wont allow a company using the Saab brand to fail… Read more »
Angelo V.
Member
2 years 7 months ago

I’m assuming within 2 years time, they could have addressed the pedestrian regulation issue. Lord help us with these bureaucrats.

Doug R.
Guest
2 years 7 months ago

Do you know how much they have invested in the current 9-3.? What is the launch date of the new face lift again? That will be Electric and Petrol?

Doug R.
Guest
2 years 7 months ago
Tim I don’t think that is what Angelo said. Angelo says: The business plan shown to bankruptcy receivers two years ago should have shown capital expenses and working capital for at least the first few years of operation. Maybe the right questions weren’t asked of this group to identify potential serious oversights on how to successfully restart this company and stay in it for a long time. Doug: Saab did have other potential “takers” during the bankruptcy and for some reason, they were bypassed or scared off in favor of this consortium. For some reason Anyway If what you say… Read more »
Doug R.
Guest
2 years 7 months ago

It should read funded not founded sorry

Lee
Member
2 years 7 months ago

Back to the “picture”: Couldn’t they at least match the nav screen bezel to the gray of the rest of the panel?
eeeeew!

BMW Rider
Member
2 years 7 months ago

Bingo! It screams aftermarket nav system in that picture.

I love my 9-3 vert, and as much as I’d like to say it (the dash) isn’t dated, it is. It is functional and tasteful and not unattractive, for sure, but dated compared to anything in that class new today. I get in my 9-3 after driving my NG 9-5, which is itself a little long in tooth now, and it feels like a different century, even with the Hirsch leather package in the 9-3 which at least helps it feel more upscale.

TonymacUK
Member
2 years 7 months ago

Yes, the leather package helps enormously.

Joe
Guest
2 years 7 months ago

I’m not finding it particularly objectionable, nor much different than the GM version quite frankly.
Won’t matter a bit if it does not get to market other than China….

Doug R.
Guest
2 years 7 months ago

BMW Rider: Actually I agree the dash lay out isn’t dated change materials better grade (plastics) add some nice wood accents would help.

To be honest we have a 2012 Mazda 3 sky active Tech package and 2008 9-3.. I do like the ergonomics better in the Saab but like the better materials in the Mazda.

Patrik H
Member
2 years 7 months ago
I hope to see a major re-design of this interior. I have an ’03 9-3 and love the cockpit-style dashboard with its excellent ergonomics and nighttime-friendly green backlighting. It’s one of my favorite things about the car. However, it has clearly become dated. In fact, I think the ’08 update was a big step backwards, especially omitting the high-mounted SID. The overall shape is perfectly fine (see Saab 900, 9-5, 9-4x, etc.), but things like a new steering wheel, new shift lever, new buttons, and new instrument panel would go a long way towards making this car a more reasonable… Read more »
phermansson
Member
2 years 7 months ago
I sort of agree with you, the driving is really good, actually still better than many new cars so thats not the issue with the 9-3, the issue for me is lack of updated technology. Actually I’m fine with the GM style airconditioning and dashboard in general, the old 9-3 had a more aircraft inspired dash, thats true but the new one is easier for many novis drivers to manage. I remember that a marketing study was made by Saab where they found out that most drivers didn’t even know what 30% of the buttons on the dash did, which… Read more »
RS
Member
2 years 7 months ago
I wonder how this survey was done? How many of those 30% were people who don’t understand buttons in ANY car? Vice versa, how many new 9-3 sedans were sold to Saabers thanks to the aircraft inspired dash. I’d say many! The only thing that made it look a little bit confusing was the telephone dial buttons, otherwise it is spot on with the small display that should have been a color HD NAVI by 2008. If NEVS is going to use aftermarket parts only and no new improved design of their own good luck with that. In other words… Read more »
phermansson
Member
2 years 7 months ago
Then I guess it is as you say, game over! Funny though, many people say game over and even so, game is still on in the factory! We need to understand that SAAB went bankrupt, it was finished, nothing left, everybody gone! And here comes NEVS who spends a shit load of money buying the bankruptcy estate, starts up production with over 2000 suppliers in total in many chains. After three months they’ve sold about 45 cars or so and here we are thinking that they can spend millions of euro’s on re-tooling to make new cool products, I’ve got… Read more »
RS
Member
2 years 7 months ago
If they’ve used a sh$tload of money on the factory but cannot upgrade some plastic panels (upgrade the product their trying to sell)…, oh boy. How much can it cost to make a few platics molds for the dash anyway? They should go ask their local guy. Google him up. It’s not like their be needing tens of thousands of these parts this year. For pete’s sake. The car cost what, 300.000 SEK. It won’t sell looking more dated than 10 years ago. Spyker had exactly the same problem with the 9-3. The GM interior has been around for too… Read more »
phermansson
Member
2 years 7 months ago
You know, this is more than a short term project. The idea is to make this company a long lasting business which is a 10 year project at least. The 9-3 is not something NEVS expect to make money on, they expect to get things going with that product, so if they dont expect to make money on it, then they certainly are not going to waste money on it… To begin with, they need to get a car that is certified according to todays standards, once they’ve done that, then they can start thinking about changing buttons etc. You… Read more »
RS
Member
2 years 7 months ago

The Hirsch cooperation is good start. Lets hope it will become standard until there is an interior upgrade or a new car model.

It can’t cost that much more to have the Saab door look something like this in the future?

phermansson
Member
2 years 7 months ago

The Hirsch products will be an option on top of the standard version, so get extra, pay extra! =)

You cant imagine how much tools cost in order to change the smallest piece which is why there was more or less no upgrade of the interior from the 2007 to the 2008.

RS
Member
2 years 7 months ago
Tim, I have a pretty good imagination thank you 😉 What I’ve been harping on for a looong time is the fact Saab over the last 15 years hasn’t valued or understood interior materials unlike every other manufacturer on the planet. They can make things better with the same tools you know, just by finishing the parts differently. The silver paint here and there looks hideous to be honest and something we’re used to seeing in a 160.000 SEK Hyundai. Lets say there is a facelift coming and no Phoenix car for 3 years, then they HAVE TO invest in… Read more »
phermansson
Member
2 years 7 months ago
When they come up with a new car they of course will invest in new tooling, thats pretty normal, but now we’re talking design of a future vehicle, not upgrading of the current 9-3 which is a completely different story. That silver painted dashboard was the first thing I removed from my car after I bought it brand new in 2010… totally agree with you on that one! I’d love to see some serious upgrades of interior materials as well, but NOT in the current 9-3 since that wont help the company financially. The 9-3 should just run as a… Read more »
Doug R.
Guest
2 years 7 months ago

RS I totally agree with you.. There is no future if revenue isn’t generated.. and what is going down right now won’t cut it. Like it or not.

Patrik H
Member
2 years 7 months ago
I have never had any difficulty understanding what the buttons on my dash do. The only one that puzzled me for awhile was the ” –” button, which actually does nothing. A placeholder for a future button, I read. And my goodness does the dash look killer at night! I have yet to sit in another car that has such an impressive yet comfortably illuminated dashboard. Certainly, it will cost extra to put in a new steering wheel, new buttons, etc. But realistically, how much? The car is $42,000 USD already. What’s another $1000-3000 if it means having a fresh… Read more »
TonymacUK
Member
2 years 7 months ago

Totally agree with your “does the dash look killer at night! I have yet to sit in another car that has such an impressive yet comfortably illuminated dashboard.” – I hope to goodness they don`t drop the green.

TonymacUK
Member
2 years 7 months ago

Reviews of Honda Accord show similar levels of bafflement with the number and duplicated function of buttons.

Angelo V.
Member
2 years 7 months ago
I have no real issues with the way NEVS has methodically brought the 9-3 back to life in the factory. Considering what they had to work with, I think the car is still fresh to look at and based on the photos, would be pleasant enough to sit in. If the bones are still the 9-3 produced previously, it drives as well as most new cars too. My bigger concern is that they haven’t made the investment to get this car approved for old markets and forged ahead with dealership agreements to actually sell the car. I feel very confident… Read more »
Doug R.
Guest
2 years 7 months ago
Angelo I have to disagree with you bringing the dated 9-3 to America. ( have to be the new face lift, regulations, even that won’t do it.) It would be a waste of money.and huge obstacles to overcome Nevs would never get enough dealers on board here , Heck the big dealer in NY could care less about Saab they have moved many customers to other brands. They own Lexus, Infinite, Nissan,VW, They couldn’t sell Saab before (2009,10 11).. I spoke to the GM, he said the 2 downfalls in a row (GM Spyker) really made things financial devastating and… Read more »
saabyurk
Member
2 years 7 months ago
I have to agree with RS. I think the 30% who didn’t even know what the buttons on the dash did wouldn’t understand any button, except maybe On/Off. I had an 04 9-3 ARC and the Auto function was so well thought out that I rarely ever had to touch a button anyway. The rare exception was when the windshield would be severely frosted, I would touch a single button and all air would be directed to the windshield with fans on high. One touch. A second touch on the Auto button would return everything to normal. I really miss… Read more »
Doug R.
Guest
2 years 7 months ago
RS: In the Auto industry,, the challenge not only is engineering new cars, but also manufacturing methods used for costs savings. The other important factor is volume purchasing. If a car company has 10 cars in the model line , the Vehicles have a percentage of interchangeable parts, it reduces the part price… .Also lets say I am GM who who has subcontractors in place, injection molding, radios, windshields, etc, The purchase agent for GM can obviously purchase for less then Saab. Also manufactures have built facilities in various regions globally to off set cost. All Challenges for Saab/Nevs. Competition… Read more »
Doug R.
Guest
2 years 7 months ago
Tim : It’s true car prices across the board for a middle of the road vehicle’s have sky rocketed actually all models. When you add some option’s the prices really jumps. The car market over the last 3 years has had strong sales at least in the US.. People have taken advantage of the extreme low interest rates. Many here in America lease. The go to dealers and want the toys, and are only concerned about payments (how much per month). Kia and Hyundai have the edge for dollar value.. Personally not for me. Every corner has a Kia at… Read more »
phermansson
Member
2 years 7 months ago
Thats a very good question! I agree with you 100%. Same thing with most areas of expensive purchase with low rates. People tend to consume to the break point of their income, when either income or expenses change for the worse, people cry and we’ve got a crisis on our hands. In denmark they have a term called farmers-logic “bonde-logik” which applies to people who think longer than next months pay-check. People who save money for the future, create economic buffers in their lives, not very common these days sadly. Already during the stone-age people understood that one needs a… Read more »
Doug R.
Guest
2 years 7 months ago

The simple truth Tim, even in America people live pay check to pay check., Spoiled,, need the I Phone,, internet TV, New car, house they can’t afford etc. On top of that the reality is, the true middle class is dwindling… Most people have very little savings and retirement… We know that a global recession.exist.. Some people deny the complex issues we all share globally.

Don’t want to get over political lol. That will really open doors here.

Your 100 percent right.

phermansson
Member
2 years 7 months ago

I feel that the word spoiled in this case applies on most people in most western countries. Its a good choice of word to describe it =)

Angelo V.
Member
2 years 7 months ago
I can’t speak for the rest of the Western world, but in the USA, only one or two generations back—-adults understood the concept of saving money for purchases. True, most people have always needed to borrow for a home, but they would find a house that was well within their means—-not the most impressive house on the block, or the biggest—-but one they could afford and take pride in. Many people saved money to pay cash for cars, not borrow. Now, it seems like everybody wants everything “now” whether they could afford it or not. And they want the newest… Read more »
phermansson
Member
2 years 7 months ago

That sounds pretty good as well! =)

Patrik H
Member
2 years 7 months ago
You are right, Angelo. Most of us Americans have no idea how to save money. Everything is about now, now, now. The fervor with which some people acquire the “latest and greatest” smartphones is the most acute example in 2014, I believe. It can be absolutely mind-blowing. One of my cousins is a prime example. Absolutely struggling to pay for her house, but just bought a brand new car. The car she had prior? A 2013 still under warranty and with cheaper payments! Some people are just that way. I happily drive an older Saab even though I could afford… Read more »
phermansson
Member
2 years 7 months ago
Well here the regulations state that you have to put in 20% cash minimum when you buy a car so its not really by choice, but many people I know are sadly the way your cousin, they live in a way where they have more or less nothing of the previous pay-check left a few days before the next one comes along. Most people go about their whole life never owning anything, they’ve got a flat that they rent, a car that they lease and they spend all the money they earn on stuff… when they retire, the only things… Read more »
Angelo V.
Member
2 years 7 months ago
Funny thing relating to cars—-the U.S. made cars up through the 1960s and even into the very early 1970s were tremendous. In fact, in Cuba, 1950s American cars are still on the road in respectable numbers, being used as taxis or other service vehicles—-even without a parts supply. The mechanics there are phenomenal at improvising—-fitting other types of alternators onto the engines, making adjustments, pounding out metal by hand, etc., to keep these great cars running. As late as 1971 or maybe even beyond that, many parts of Cadillacs were still assembled by hand—-double and triple checked. The pride in… Read more »
Doug R.
Guest
2 years 7 months ago

Angelo,,I drove one kia optima before buying the Mazda 3 sky active tech package.. Both 2012’s The Kia optima was boring… Fit to finish nice,, ended up with the Mazda. My wife also bought a new Hyundai Elantra 2008,, had the car four years… Bearings went, bushings numerous times,,, door handles fell off. etc. Fought with Hyundai about it to no avail. After 60,000 miles things started going.

Built-in obsolescence is a big factor with cars

The problem for me the market is saturated with the Korean Vehicles…Getting better no doubt.

Angelo V.
Member
2 years 7 months ago

My Sedona minivan has about 120,000 miles on it and it’s rock solid, not issues. Only problems have been minor and KIA has fulfilled their warranty obligation. As for the Optima, it probably depends which model—-I haven’t driven one, though I’ve been in them. The auto scribe really seems to like the driving characteristics of some of them. Of course, Mazdas are well known for driving dynamics—-so you got a good one as far as that goes.

Angelo V.
Member
2 years 7 months ago
Also Doug, you made a comment I saw in “Activity” but can’t find on this page. Basically, you disagreed with my thoughts about NEVS selling the 9-3 in the U.S. Here’s the thing: My assertion was that NEVS should have come out of the gate faster with the 9-3 and sold it in many of their previous markets, including the U.S. and Canada. It would have been a yeoman’s task—-but not impossible to either have them ready to sell or be very close at this point. I completely understand the concern that the 9-3 line is dated, and that it… Read more »
Doug R.
Guest
2 years 7 months ago
Ya Angelo I don’t know what happened to my post. First problem, is the current version,, can’t be sold ( regulations pedestrian) I already expressed that on this page, the limitations and exemptions etc. , The face lift version will have a dated platform and what Tim is saying it may not vary much from the current 93’s interior. If Spyker and GM struggled with the car between 09-2011, what would change? Remember 13 year old platform and dated interior. Where is the Buzz, I spoke with a former Saab dealer, who said the downfall of GM and then Spyker… Read more »
Angelo V.
Member
2 years 7 months ago
Well, much of what you say is true and we can’t change history—-it’s too late now anyway. RE: pedestrian regulations. We don’t have that in the U.S., do we? God forbid. Also, Saab was doing quite nicely in the early and mid-80s in the U.S.—-didn’t they just have the 900? Look, I’m all for a full product line. I’ve been saying constantly how the lack of an entry level car doomed them. But my point is that to bridge to the Phoenix and maybe a smaller hatch—-one varied line (9-3 with sedan, estate/wagon and convertible) would have given dealers a… Read more »
Doug R.
Guest
2 years 7 months ago
From Edmunds: Pe.destrian regulations One key area still challenging engineers in most U.S. vehicles is the front bumper. For vehicles in Europe and Asia (where there are many more pedestrian collisions and governmental standards regulating them), bumpers are designed with larger crush space and with different supports for the plastic bumper cover in order to reduce leg injury. Unfortunately, these “softer” bumpers don’t perform well in the 5-mph bumper test conducted by the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety (IIHS) to assess repair costs, so they generally aren’t used on vehicles in the U.S. Another issue with bumper design for U.S.… Read more »
Angelo V.
Member
2 years 7 months ago
I have a really simple solution that doesn’t cost much—-LOOK BOTH WAYS BEFORE YOU CROSS! I believe I heard that in kindergarten or first grade and it’s served me well. But hey, if we’re going to have pedestrian safety measures forced on us, I want safety standards for my cat too, in case he gets out of the house, and my neighbor’s cat, who is outside a lot—-and the neighborhood dogs. I want cars designed that won’t injure an animal if it hits them. I would like hovercrafts mandated that don’t roll on tires but that ride on air—–and if… Read more »
Doug R.
Guest
2 years 7 months ago
Angelo: Remember Nevs Business Model, the little we know is EV’s and China… Everything seems to be contingent on the Success of it. That said I agree with you about the lapse period.. Nevs would be stating from scratch in 5-6 years to re-market the Brand in many places. I know it goes against all logic to lose a high percent of its global fan base to other brands. What is the current fan base worth in there eyes? Maybe not as much as we think, because they know a percent of owners have already moved on. 3 years going… Read more »
Angelo V.
Member
2 years 7 months ago
Well that’s really the discussion Doug—-I’m questioning their business model. But there’s more: If you consider your own words, questioning what the current “base” is in their eyes—-my response to that is they do see value in the base or at least in the brand, because if they didn’t, there wouldn’t be any reason to negotiate as they did for the Saab name. The way the story was told here, they were awarded the rights to buy the assets in their entirety—-factory, Phoenix platform work, etc.—–but that it was a detached process to go after the Saab name, which NEVS… Read more »
TonymacUK
Member
2 years 7 months ago

Interesting comment re what you call a wagon and I call an estate car. Here, most manufacturers make an estate version simply because they are very popular.

Angelo V.
Member
2 years 7 months ago
Tony: I have the 9-5 estate as you call it, station wagon as we call it. It’s interesting—back in the ’70s, Americans liked estates and they were offered in all sizes—-sub-compact, intermediate, full sized. They sold in very strong numbers, particularly the big ones, which hauled families on vacations, towed boats, etc. For the most part, in the U.S., they’ve been displaced by SUVs, which come in all sizes, compact, medium, full sized. Me? I’d rather the handling characteristics of a wagon like my 9-5 over any top heavy SUV. But I’m greatly outnumbered on these shores. People love the… Read more »
Doug R.
Guest
2 years 7 months ago
Angelo I didn’t say they think there is no value in the Saab Brand… I think Nevs has complete tunnel vision focused on China .. That’s the main focus, The name Saab certainly brings more interest than, say Nev Cars,, They think the Saab brand will draw more attention in China. . If the day comes,distribution outside of China, obviously the Saab name would have greater impact than Nev Cars. How much of premium did they pay for the name? It may have been a minimal up charge in comparison to the real estate etc. Maybe, they were told no… Read more »
Doug R.
Guest
2 years 7 months ago

Angelo if you respond I also have a question… The Saab name, can Nevs lose it if they don’t reach milestones in the contract..? Or is it Nevs right indefinitely?

Angelo V.
Member
2 years 7 months ago
Okay, I understand. Your other post asked “What’s the current fan base worth in their eyes” and that’s why I commented that they did go the extra mile to get the name, not just the factory and technology. I don’t know if “reaching milestones” is in any way tied to them keeping use of the name Saab. I did read where things must be based or produced in Sweden for the name to stay with them and I commented then and will again—-agreements are made to be broken. The father of a good friend worked for a large mergers and… Read more »
alyeska2112
Member
2 years 7 months ago

It is great to see this new infotainment system and hear about possible Hirsch package.
In my view, minor improvements would be enough to enrich the overall athmosphere of the 9-3’s interior which is already great. Therefore, there are only two points which I would like to see as changed: air conditioning controls and gear knob. Even upgrading the existing GM style air conditioning by replacing its buttons with piano black buttons to match the infotainment system and changing only the gear knob with more premium looking one would be fantastic.

Patrik H
Member
2 years 7 months ago

I completely agree. It really wouldn’t take much to bump-up the “premium” factor. It’s still a downright stylish interior, just in need of some improvement.

alyeska2112
Member
2 years 7 months ago

Exactly! I don’t expect NEVS to make a major facelift to the current gen. 9-3’s interior for the 3rd time. But, minor improvements should be considered.

Angelo V.
Member
2 years 7 months ago

The investment to replacing buttons with piano black ones and a new style/shape gear lever is extremely small money. If you really believe these two adjustments would have a positive impact on potential buyers, there’s no reason in the world why they couldn’t have done this. If they are so cash strapped as not to be able to invest in the tools/dies for a new shift knob, they shouldn’t even be in business.

alyeska2112
Member
2 years 7 months ago

I think so that minor improvements wouldn’t require heavy investment. Therefore, I have expressed these two points to be changed.

I don’t know what NEVS is planning – more or less improvement. But the new infotainment system and idea of offering Hirsh package for the current gen. 9-3′s interior are good news.

For the Phoenix based future models, I would like to see interiors with sophisticated technologies and premium elements such as real wood trim, genuine leather dash and instrument panel, alcantara headliner etc.

phermansson
Member
2 years 7 months ago

Or they are focusing on other issues that you know nothing about…

Angelo V.
Member
2 years 7 months ago

There’s that possibility too. Top secret, hush-hush. They might be on the verge of building a car that runs on tomatoes and a few drops of rubbing alcohol. Don’t want to spoil it by talking too much and having Audi steal the idea.

alyeska2112
Member
2 years 7 months ago

The priority is the revival of SAAB. There should be thousands of issues. Interior is just one of those.

I am optimistic about the “electric” future. Of course, no one should expect NEVS to reveal their plans. Thus, I am patient enough to wait and see.

alyeska2112
Member
2 years 7 months ago

In addition to my words:

As a part of the revival process, electric 9-3 should be as competitive as its rivals to gain a market share. I am patient enough to wait and see “premium” SAABs.

Patrik H
Member
2 years 7 months ago

Tim, when are we going to see the in-depth on-road review of the 2014 9-3? It’s been mentioned numerous times, in passing.

Doug R.
Guest
2 years 7 months ago
There is no future if revenue isn’t generated.. and what is going down right now won’t cut it. Like it or not. The new face lift is going to cost x amount. So that said, they need an interior up grade to match.. If not the money invested will be a waste and will tarnish the brand indefinitely. I will be bold enough to say if it isn’t done with pride, The belief that Nevs is in this, with integrity is a myth.. Many on the internet believe this purchase was for the Chinese to gain technology advancements in the… Read more »
Angelo V.
Member
2 years 7 months ago
It’s not so much that Saab fans “deserve” anything from NEVS—–it’s more or less your first point: If NEVS doesn’t start opening up, we’ll know that this isn’t really about reviving Saab. I guess that summarizes all the related posts I’ve written—–people who think “there’s a good reason” for NEVS to be this mute might want to believe in Saab so badly, they’re rationalizing stupefying behavior on the part of NEVS by inventing reasons why it is appropriate or “to be expected.” The whole “be patient, good things are coming” thing wore pitifully thin over a year ago. It’s insanity… Read more »
Doug R.
Guest
2 years 7 months ago

Right on Angelo very articulate,,great summation.. Its sad,,, Its apparent to me. I feel really bad for the community there. I hope I am wrong I really do. But like you said many great new cars today to focus on,,if this implodes.

Oh, your right they don’t owe us squat… Especially if they have alternative motives and could careless what previous customers think.

Angelo V.
Member
2 years 7 months ago

If they cared even a little bit about what previous owners (today’s Saab owners) thought, we would know it. They have sent not even a whisper of a signal that they care at all.

TonymacUK
Member
2 years 7 months ago

As I`ve said on previous occasions, my fear is that SAAB in Sweden will end up like MG – assembling KD kits comprising parts made in China.

wpDiscuz