Supplier files for NEVS bankruptcy hearing (updated)

P4 Väst reports that NEVS owes one of the suppliers 150000 SEK (~ $21800 USD). A bankruptcy hearing is scheduled for September 8th.

Monday 11th was the first day after the vacation for many of NEVS’ employees. There were rumors that an announcement of a deal would be made known yesterday, but nothing has materialized so far. It would surprise me greatly if this situation has not been resolved, one way or another, long before September 8th.

Fingers crossed.

(h/t to Daniel B in comments)

Update (18:00): Swedish television reports that the CEO of Labo test was unaware of the legal motion. It was the company handling their invoices that filed on their behalf. “We will now consider our options and one alternative might be that we withdraw our request”.

(h/t to mk for the link to the followup story)

Andreas
Member
2 years 1 month ago

The end??? :/

rune
Member
2 years 1 month ago

No. It is either the prelude to the next chapter in the history of Saab, or it is part of a death spiral.

I’ll give it even odds. (I just don’t know either way)

Mailr
Member
2 years 1 month ago

A supplier filing for bankruptcy is a valid legal tool to protect assets, I think that’s the way to see it. It, among other things, forces an answer to the question if there are enough assets left, if the request is not withdrawn.

Basically, it places more pressure on Mahindra to complete a deal soon so that the suppliers can be paid before the hearing. In practice, we now have a deadline for a deal.

Mick E. Bice
Member
2 years 1 month ago

No, the end was in 2011. What’s happened since is nothing more than a prolonged dead-cat bounce. Sad but true.

phermansson
Member
2 years 1 month ago

You know, thats exactly what a lot of people said about Victors efforts in 2011… they said the end was in 2009… funny how that keeps repeating it self but with one significant difference, the date…

Mick E. Bice
Member
2 years 1 month ago
To Muller’s credit he did extend Saab’s life ever so slightly, allowing a handful of 9-5NGs to be built before it all went south, for a while there I thought Spyker was in control. However, Muller was also the one who painted Saab into a corner from which it couldn’t escape, and the very same day it was made public that he wanted to sell out to the Chinese (the epitome of desperation) I realized that it was over. Nothing that’s happened since then has suggested that I was wrong, and I’m convinced the future will prove me right, but… Read more »
phermansson
Member
2 years 1 month ago
By stating that it was Muller who “who painted Saab into a corner from which it couldn’t escape” tells exactly how little you actually know about what was going on… The whole saga began way before Victor Muller even got to the stage. The downfall of Saab came with the stupid people in charge when the NG9-3 was developed back in 2001-2002. From that point onward its been heading down hill ever since… Victor did an amazing job in trying to save Saab, I know, I was there and I talked to him almost everyday, I still do! NEVS has… Read more »
Mailr
Member
2 years 1 month ago

In 2009, Holden was the GM brand outside of US that seemed to have the brightest future. Now, Saab is much more likely to survive than Holden (as more than a badge). Because Victor Muller and Kai Johan Jiang has given Saab enough freedom and resources to have a shot at a bright future.

phermansson
Member
2 years 1 month ago

You are mighty right!

kochje
Member
2 years 1 month ago

Yes I do agree with both of you and really hope that the efforts of both Victor and Jiang have laid a further basis for our brand.

Andreas
Member
2 years 1 month ago

With what products? I still don get what the new owner actually should sell. A new 9-3 on the Phoenix platform?

phermansson
Member
2 years 1 month ago

The plan from NEVS is that Mahindra and Dong Feng come into NEVS as permanent partners and develop technology for a future car-lineup based on the phoenix platform.

We’re not just talking about a 9-3 but a 9-2 to a 9-5 at least with all the variants in-between.

hans h
Member
2 years 1 month ago

That would be nice. 🙂

Mick E. Bice
Member
2 years 1 month ago

The seeds of Saab’s downfall were obviously sown during the GM era, but Muller didn’t exactly reverse the situation by clinging to the unsuitable investors that he pulled out of his hat, till the very end. It was no secret that GM didn’t want Saab to end up in the hands of the Chinese, and yet Muller stubbornly pursued Chinese investors! There obviously could not be a happy ending, and we all know what happened later.

rune
Member
2 years 1 month ago
Wrong. Victor and his team pursued investors on all continents (well, probably not Africa or Antarctica, but I will assume that is not places where you would have sought investors either?). As you may recall, there was (and still is to some degree) a world-wide financial crisis. Most investors put their money in safer investments and banks were unwilling to lend anyone money. If you had read “Kampen om Saab” (Jonas Fröberg) you would have noticed that an entire chapter was dedicated to the problems with securing the EIB loan (a vital and unfortunate part of the Koenigsegg plan). They… Read more »
Mick E. Bice
Member
2 years 1 month ago

You keep saying that Muller pursued non-Chinese investors, which may be true for all I know, but it doesn’t change the fact that he still did pursue Chinese investors, despite the fact that pretty much everyone knew from the get-go that GM specifically wouldn’t allow it, yet as far as I remember Youngman was involved right until the bitter end!

Or have I got it wrong? If that’s the case, feel free to refresh my memory – at what time did Muller abandon Youngman and brought in a non-Chinese investor, and what was the name of said investor?

phermansson
Member
2 years 1 month ago

He went after investors in China because he had nowhere else to turn… and GM accepted both Youngman and Pang Da’s investments initially, it was when they together tried to take over more than 50% of the company that GM turned them down.

The initial deal had them owning 24,9% of the shares in SWAN together, but the chinese got greedy because of a Swedish lawyer who promised them more than they would ever get and everything went downhill after that…

Mick E. Bice
Member
2 years 1 month ago

Right – Muller may have found out the hard way that “there are no alternatives left except the Chinese” in reality means “there are no alternatives left”. I’m sure any pundit could have told him that for free…

Phillip
Guest
2 years 1 month ago

Hi Tim. Can you explain further what you mean by “The downfall of Saab came with the stupid people in charge when the NG9-3 was developed back in 2001-2002. From that point onward its been heading down hill ever since”. I’d be interested in understanding some more about this.

phermansson
Member
2 years 1 month ago
Well basically GM had developed the NG900 for Saab together with Saabs engineers, the pure mission for that car was to bring an affordable car to the customers that could turn Saabs negative economic trend. And the car did exactly that, it had a rough start but it got the job done and it was the first car to make profit for Saab in ages. Saab also worked on the 9-5 at the time tightly together with GM engineers and it was a very good project, it stayed within the financial borders which it should, it was a massiv car… Read more »
Angelo V.
Member
2 years 1 month ago
Thank you for that Tim. It makes perfect sense. Plenty of blame to go round. I tend to focus on driving and safety—-and things like expensive fiber optics might or might not be a means to that end. But I also focus on economy and reliability—-and clearly, Saab was on the wrong path there, making a car cost thousands more than it should have. I’ve said it before—-the prices killed Saab in the U.S. A couple thousand dollars does make a difference in whether a car will sell here or not—-and giving us the same basic car without the frills… Read more »
hans h
Member
2 years 1 month ago

Thank you for telling it like it is.
I think another thing that crippled Saab was the amount of development that went into one or even two 9-5’s that never went into production. One was developed together with Fiat and died when GM cut the ties to Fiat. Much money down the drain.

svensson
Member
2 years 1 month ago
I have heard or read about similar things, like the Saab engineers deciding to design a new fuel tank for the Saab 9-3 even though the standard GM tank would have been perfectly suitable. Sometimes when I discuss things like this with Swedish Saab enthusiasts they stubbornly refuse to admit any wrong doing at all from the Swedish management or technical directors. They blame everything on GM. That is why it’s so refreshing to read your honest and unbiased view on this. I know you are the greatest Saab enthusiast but still you have the ability to see things clear… Read more »
Angelo V.
Member
2 years 1 month ago
Svensson: You and Tim both deserve credit for excellent posts. As I read yours—-it occurred to me that part of the reason GM might have been able to get control of Saab in the first place is because development costs were stubbornly out of control, leading to a company in financial dire straits. Bad habits die hard. I agree that GM made a good faith effort at the beginning—I take strong exception to how things ended for Saab and how GM obstructed plans to keep Saab viable—selling cars. But the other point is that as an owner, GM needed to… Read more »
Phillip
Guest
2 years 1 month ago

Thanks a lot Tim for the explanation. It’s good to understand this. What a shame.

Angelo V.
Member
2 years 1 month ago
Vic built cars and sold them through actual Saab dealers—-in the same markets GM sold in. Vic built two new models as well as the 9-3. I never considered Saab dead after GM sold to Vic. Vic built some of the nicest looking Saabs ever. But I think beyond Vic, it’s very easy and legitimate to say that Saab has been dead, we just didn’t know it. At the very best, they’ve been on life support for a couple years—-and maybe someone else can revive the body. I hope so. If not, the body on life support becomes a corpse… Read more »
phermansson
Member
2 years 1 month ago

The cars that Vic built were developed by GM, all the work was done when Vic entered the stage, all he had to do was to push them to the market… well thats almost all he had to do… plus convince all the suppliers to start working for them again etc etc etc

Angelo V.
Member
2 years 1 month ago

I’m sure that’s all true—-but my point is that Saab was alive under Vic. Maybe it died in 2011 with Vic at the helm—-but there haven’t been real signs of life since the Vic era.

Angelo V.
Member
2 years 1 month ago

You mention everything NEVS was doing—-that wasn’t visible to the public and it wasn’t shared by NEVS with the motoring public/car scribe-automotive press. So for the general public, there were very few signs of life.

hans h
Member
2 years 1 month ago

Some people claim that Saab died when they started usin four-stroke engines in the sixties and som claim that Saab died as recently as yesterday. They are all wrong. 🙂

Jan Ivarsson
Guest
2 years 1 month ago

Another month ? Please, stop it now.
Shouldn’t we have a more definitive answer by the end of today/tomorrow morning.
If they have paid their taxes or not ?

Daniel B
Member
2 years 1 month ago

Fingers definately crossed !

Troels, Denmark
Member
2 years 1 month ago

+++

Jan Ivarsson
Guest
2 years 1 month ago

How much is a brand that has faced closure due to bad numbers, gone through one and is facing it’s second bankruptcy is worth ?
Honestly ?

Mick E. Bice
Member
2 years 1 month ago

A pittance, or so we’ve heard.

GrumpyGriffin
Member
2 years 1 month ago

£13,000 Sterling? A smaller creditor wants to stir the pot, maybe they have been put up to it by a larger creditor, maybe we have the makings of another conspiracy theory?

phermansson
Member
2 years 1 month ago

It might not look like a lot of cash but for a company who is need of it and doesn’t have it, it is a lot…

GrumpyGriffin
Member
2 years 1 month ago

Agreed but it still seems a risky way of going about it, still NEVS would seem to be Asset rich but cash poor so at least there is plenty for the Liquidator’s to get their teeth into, but then they will swallow most of it to fatten their profits.

Dagen Runt
Member
2 years 1 month ago

TTela reports that many of the employees have been released of their duties for now, as there is little to do. Nobody gets the boot, everybody gets their salaries, they just take a leave until further notice. Like back in 2011.

Mailr
Member
2 years 1 month ago

I think this also has the effect of that all activities of the enforcement agency will be stayed, so it may actually be a good thing if a deal happens in short order.

Doug R.
Guest
2 years 1 month ago
It is becoming more apparent that the real possibility is,, that this may be it… One of two things, there is no deal or a potential buyer is waiting for the vouchers to feed on Nevs so they can come in a buy the saab brand and or whatever assets have value for pennies on the dollar,,, All the suppliers who are owed monies would be offered x… A take it or leave it situation… Another words the suppliers either agree or go via Bankruptcy path. This could very well go on for months.. If no deal really is the… Read more »
liftarn
Member
2 years 1 month ago

As before the brand is a separate issue from NEVS. Is NEVS goes belly up and someone buys the remains they do not get the brand.

Doug R.
Guest
2 years 1 month ago

well i doubt Manhindra will license as i have send plenty of times… Can’t build a company around a brand you don’t own… that simple hasn’t worked as of today.

hughw
Member
2 years 1 month ago

Don’t know if you really have to “own” the brand. Perhaps the terms of the license is what matters. Did GM own the brand? I doubt it……if so, it would have been part of the bankruptcy estate and NEVS would now own it.

Doug R.
Guest
2 years 1 month ago

gm had how many lines???? most of tech produced is now with GM like chopped up in pieces. just saying. Look at buick etc.

saabserb
Member
2 years 1 month ago

A very sad day again! No conspiracy theories here please! As Tim mentioned, smaller suppliers cannot afford to sit and wait. Again a very good reaction from one of the last SAAB friends Jonas Froberg at SVD web page, a quickly written,but very good article. If he is right, then the dream is over for good!

Doug R.
Guest
2 years 1 month ago

vultures

Joe
Guest
2 years 1 month ago

As this drags on, please be cognizant that one of the last (if not only) real assets that SAAB has from a marketing perspective; it’s brand name, is being diminished daily and being associated with abject failure.
The consequence being any potential buyer sees less and less value in buying the rotting skeleton of SAAB, and more value in the production equipment and development their own virginal brand.

I cant believe there are still people absurdly standing by with “fingers-crossed”. Oh how I despise that term!

rune
Member
2 years 1 month ago

It is very easy to shoot down ideas and see all the potential pitfalls of any business preposition. I could do that in my sleep — all day long.

I believe successful people are also good at seeing potential and opportunities. Whoever tries to create jobs through innovation — I wish them all well and I hope to become one of them one day.

Joe
Guest
2 years 1 month ago

No disagreement from me in that statement, Rune.

Doug R.
Guest
2 years 1 month ago

Joe the name Saab has already taken a hit global… Thousand upon thousand of owners got crushed well as dealers…. The biggest problem is another shut down,,, Convincing anyone, buyers or building a dealer network will be tough… The last thing people want to do is spend millions or thousands and get torched… The flame was severe since 2009.

Tom Nelson
Member
2 years 1 month ago

Having just returned home from the North American Saab Owners Convention in Redmond, Oregon USA …. I need to report that there is a LOT of optimism here in the US that the Saab brand will survive and that we will someday even have new Saabs available in our country once again. Our very upbeat convention was helped immensely by the presence of Mr. Saab himself, Erik Carlsson, as well as the fine Curator of the Saab Museum, Peter Bäckström. What a great event!!!

Joe
Guest
2 years 1 month ago

I guess they all have “fingers-crossed”?

Lee
Member
2 years 1 month ago

?w=158&h=159

Angelo V.
Member
2 years 1 month ago

I hope you’re right Tom, though I heard that same thing from former Peugeot dealers for several years after they pulled out of North America back in the early ’90s. That talk didn’t stop until the late 90s. Now, 15 years later, I think they might all be dead.

lundin
Member
2 years 1 month ago

Thanks for the report Tom. That was needed a day like this. The Orio/SCNA team is excellent and i am sure they are capable of handling a bigger automotive business once again.

Doug R.
Guest
2 years 1 month ago

All due respect Tom what makes them even think of such a thing???Any factual info,, ?? Oh that’s right positive thinking.

spacy
Guest
2 years 1 month ago

I found this on http://www…... Oh for it to be again:

theSandySaab
Member
2 years 1 month ago

One day, sometime, somewhere…
Similar to these guys;
http://mg.co.uk/
I am not holding my breath but do keep my fingers crossed…

Joe
Guest
2 years 1 month ago

That’s no more an “MG” than the last pair of underwear manufactured in China that I purchased.
Oh, but I almost forgot…everyone has “fingers-crossed”…that should make it all better!

phermansson
Member
2 years 1 month ago

No it doesn’t make things better… but it feels better since there’s nothing else we can do…

100%Saab
Member
2 years 1 month ago

Feels like last time.

Just a thought.

saabnga
Member
2 years 1 month ago

Weather if saab makes it or not I give them the thumbs up they only brand that tried to stay alive after the gm affect I still own 4 of them an will keep them as long as I can 1974 sonic 1990 900 1999 95 and 2001 95 but really hope they make it I have worked on saab at a dealer for over 25 years and we are still a certified service dealer in north America Marietta Georgia

kochje
Member
2 years 1 month ago

Join you SAABNGA; we will continue as long as the cars drive…..and that can be long :).
A 96(1962) , a 900 (1987) a 9-3 (2007) and a 9-5NG (2010).

Angelo V.
Member
2 years 1 month ago

Of course, maybe the GM affect did keep Saab alive for a couple decades longer than if GM wasn’t in the equation.

dcpattie
Member
2 years 1 month ago

Shouldn’t we expect a bankruptcy? Wouldn’t a potential bidder want to get the company at rock bottom $ (i.e., after bankruptcy is declared) verses negotiating with NEVS to avoid bankruptcy?? As I see it – the best case scenario is a repeat of 2012 – albeit with little interest during this go-around – hopefully resulting with a sale for significantly less than what was paid by NEVS.

Angelo V.
Member
2 years 1 month ago

Doesn’t it get far more complicated though, if it goes that route? If you can keep it as a business transaction—a purchase/buy-out—-I guess it still needs approvals of some sort, but far less drama than a bankruptcy, creditors suing, government appointees back on the take, etc. I think it’s fine to let NEVS twist in the wind for a while to beat the price down to the lowest possible amount they can take—-but letting it go past that point risks not getting the company at all.

Doug R.
Guest
2 years 1 month ago

Well maybe no one is that excited.. take it or leave it… Time isn’t an issue since it will take years regardless to have cars Will be approaching 4 years soon. More than likely its already complicated… with said name, licensing etc.

Who is to say anything is happening… Not one leak,, that is almost impossible.

Angelo V.
Member
2 years 1 month ago

You’re forgetting the one skill NEVS had—-lips tighter than Richard Starkey’s drum kit. They might not have been good at rebuilding a car company, but they were masters at hiding whatever it was they were doing.

Joe
Guest
2 years 1 month ago

Angelo, That likely scenario provides ample time for the vultures, charlatans, and other vermin that we’ve seen before, pick what’s left of the decaying morsels of flesh from the bones of what once was SAAB.

Angelo V.
Member
2 years 1 month ago

Maybe I’ll bid on a box of those black emblems with “SAAB” in silver—-the new logo. NEVS might have ordered a gross of them, maybe more—-and only used a few dozen. I’ll offer three dollars each, free shipping to the U.S.

hughw
Member
2 years 1 month ago
Your idea makes some sense but in practice, no one knows where a bankruptcy will go. It’s not so simple that NEVS goes bankrupt, the bankruptcy trustees sell at the best price they can get and that’s it. First of all, a bankruptcy requires maximizing the funds available to pay creditors who are likely to end up screwed in any case. The trustees could well sell off a company on pieces if that made financial sense; the land, the equipment, etc. And since NEVS has already taken loans agains some of their assets, those would go straight out the door… Read more »
dcpattie
Member
2 years 1 month ago

Thanks for that insight. Given what you posted above, shouldn’t their be far fewer “vultures” this time around since only a few dozen 9-3’s were produced from left-over parts with only a few new interior bits (like the seats and center console units)?

Angelo V.
Member
2 years 1 month ago

That reminds me, I might bid on a couple of those new headrests too. I seemed to be the only one who liked those. Ten dollars each, free shipping. Maybe I can retrofit them into a ’97 Mercury Tracer that’s in our family.

aus715
Member
2 years 1 month ago

One of the issues us ‘fans’ have faced for some time now is the real lack of any media on anything Saab. And now we seem to know less than next to nothing. That’s fine and i respect the logic around it, and I certainly don’t begrudge NEVS for this approach however now would be a good time to say Something, be it good or bad.

Angelo V.
Member
2 years 1 month ago

Now it’s too late. Now the lawyers have to hash out the details before anyone says anything. The time to talk to “fans” was 2013.

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