Thoughts.

It’s been a few days that I’ve been carrying around some thoughts I wanted to put into words here. For the past year I have been pretty absent here as a writer due to the saab related webshop that I had started back then and that has been growing permanently. Nevertheless I’ve been watching closely what happens and what is posted here and around other places in the Saab universe.

Our main job over the years, the covering of the latest news has become rather unsatisfying recently. Not only because real news are hard to get but also because those latest news were rather bad. So for some time I have been looking into ways to get more community topics back on the blog. The stuff that us current owners are interested in while enjoying and maintaining our Saabs. Pretty soon we’ll be introducing a new writer to feature the technical side of our cars. I still believe getting a pre-owned Saab is a good idea and maybe this is a way to encourage more people to join in.

While I still feel that there may be cars made in Trollhättan again in the future for now I think we have to deal with the reality and put our love on the cars we have. I know there are many out there who put a lot of effort into their cars, making them something very special and personal. If you are one of those, please share those stories with us. We will be happy to post it.

We have more things in our mind for the future of SaabsUnited but since it’s you who we are running that blog for we are also open to your suggestions. Comments are open. SaabsUnited has always been a valuable part of the community over the years and can surely be that in the future with a few tweaks here and there.

And finally just a few words on an issue we got a lot of critcism for (and rightly so). I did not like the extensive featuring of Munich based cars either.

zol10
Member
1 year 10 months ago

Well worded! This site is Saabsunited, not BMW’s united

tobbe
Member
1 year 10 months ago

+1
Keep it Saab!. Did not enjoyed those “german” posts 🙂

kochje
Member
1 year 10 months ago

+1, well said and well expressed Till 72.

e050367
Member
1 year 10 months ago

+1 copy!

tianalfred
Member
1 year 10 months ago

the thing is that you do not want to listen to other different voices. Just like an old Chinese saying goes, letting a hundred flowers blossom and a hundred schools of thought contend. A single flower really does not make a spring.

Romac
Member
1 year 10 months ago

No no, it’s not that. For sure let a hundred flowers blossom in a hundred blogs, but links to a page outside the main blog (with a health warning) would be a better way of giving those other voices space.

mattea
Member
1 year 10 months ago

+1

Angelo V.
Member
1 year 10 months ago
Thank you for posting this. I think at this point—-more important than upgrading, customizing, etc., is simply keeping our Saabs running—-keeping as many Saabs on the road as possible. That means covering the mundane mechanical issues maybe—-in more than just a buried forum—-but as a featured highlight. An “Ask The Technician” or “Ask The Community” feature once in a while. Last week, I dealt with an Check Engine light—-commented on it in one of the threads. Having other owners come to the rescue with advice and suggestions was a great feeling. Turns out the code read “O2 Sensor” and the… Read more »
Patrik H
Member
1 year 10 months ago

As always…..just about perfect.

Avelik
Member
1 year 10 months ago
Totally agree on your football teams/car brands thoughts. I think it is absolutely ok to discuss other brands. I think the dissatisfaction with the “BMW articles” was caused mainly because of the lack of “SAAB articles” recently. I think it was more of an emotional reaction than a rational one. It will be good to combine SAAB-related content with articles about the automotive world through the eyes of a Saaber. My “dissatisfaction” with Trued’s article is not because it was about a BMW but more because it could be more or less summarized with the sentence “I went to Germany… Read more »
Angelo V.
Member
1 year 10 months ago
It’s interesting that you brought up that episode from the Spring. I’d be lying if I said I recalled the same specific discussion—-but I do recall various comments here that talked about how SU was not at liberty to disclose information at that time. However, I believe we’re fast approaching a time when the secretive “information” can be shared with readers here—and if it can be shared, it should be. If there is “inside information” about the electric 9-3 development, Phoenix, etc., is it really necessary at this point to keep a lid on it? If owners change, all the… Read more »
Jason Petho
Member
1 year 10 months ago

+1

maanders
Member
1 year 10 months ago
I like the idea of an article from time to time that goes into some detail (perhaps with photos!) of how to handle a general Saab maintenance issue, but I do not think the main blog entry part of SU should turn into a general “how to” section for fixing our Saabs. There are already several other sites that specialize in that and in today’s world of Saab ownership, I don’t think it makes much sense for these Saab sites to compete with each other. (For example, http://www.saabnet.com has excellent forums for the various Saab models with a searchable archive… Read more »
3cyl
Member
1 year 10 months ago

A focus on special SAABs is a great idea.

zol10
Member
1 year 10 months ago

True. Both of our Saabs are pretty new and has low miles so we are planning to keep them around until we can drive them safely, hopefully for many more years. We have a Toyota as well that we use for the winter commute but I don’t think that is appropriate or even necessary to blog about it on SU. Angelo, you are utterly right about the mechanical blog, that is something I wish we had on this site, specially now that our cars are getting older.

milamedia
Member
1 year 10 months ago

Thanks a lot for your comment, Till ! Keep the Saab spirit alive !

OliverH
Member
1 year 10 months ago

Full ack. The problem with the other brand reports here/ photos labeled with the other blog name was just a thread on a German blog. The moderation/ deleting of posts is an other problem.

Sensonic
Member
1 year 10 months ago

Very well written Till!

Could this German Bayerische MettWurst stuff been removed from this page? It doesn’t have anything to do with SAABs. I do drive another car brand besides my beloved SAAB but I do not write anything special about it. It’s just a vehicle which gets me from point A to point B. If anyone would like to write anything about those Bayerische MettWurst vehicles, could you please be so kind and do it on some Bimmer site?

Matthew
Member
1 year 10 months ago

I think the BMW posts have been a bit overwhelming but I don’t mind posts not related to Saab since that is hard to come across. I’d suggest posts on Automotive safety features, car design and vehicle engineering but of all different OEMs doing innovative things.

OddJob
Member
1 year 10 months ago
Totally agree, I don’t mind posts about other brands as long as they have some bearing on future or past Saabs or Saab ideas. To help us keep up with automotive developments I think we also have to look at what happens around us. I enjoyed the posting from Red J, a couple of weeks ago, where he looked at various electrical drive features of Bmw i3 and Chevy Volt. Far from everybody at SU are prepared to buy a new car at the moment. Still they have great opportunity right now to trade their older Saab to a newer,… Read more »
jond
Member
1 year 10 months ago

Yes. What I find interesting, however, is that despite lengthy discussions on this forum about where Saab sits in relationship with other manufacturers in terms of its ‘premium’ status (which concluded I seem to recall that it is properly placed a little lower than the premium German brands), it seems that only high-end of the range of these premium brands will satisfy Saab owners when they are forced to migrate. Interesting!

Matthew
Member
1 year 10 months ago
I think that no matter which saab model you buy it seems polished and exactly what you need. But for a German premium brand they design from high end down. So they make this amazing car and then lower all the specs to make it meet the lower end price point so the Polish is lacking. Also clear when you buy a low end car and get the top of the line specs, it still feels like a low end car so again the Polish is not there. Low end with high specs = low end High ends with low… Read more »
Trued
Member
1 year 10 months ago

I have always driven top of the line Saabs and still do parallel to my car that I can not mention anymore. Interesting to see that nobody has mentioned Till’s ovloV XC60…..

Matthew
Member
1 year 10 months ago
Did he do a post on it? I didn’t even know he owned a Volvo but I honestly don’t care what you guys own. I own a 2007 9-3 as well as a 1993 Subaru Impreza AWD. We all have brands we like and like less. I personally will only own 4 brands of cars: Saab, Subaru, Volvo, and Tesla. All companies that stand for something and are not all about sales but thats just me. I’d love to know what all the people in the comments own, and if it is not a Saab, why they own it. I… Read more »
arnold
Member
1 year 10 months ago

Good to see a focus on what we already own. I baby my classic 900i, (At 213000 km, I still am on the original brake pads) hoping to extend it’s life to the end of mine. Here in Queensland Australia, I worry about the ever diminishing parts and Saab technicians available. Mutual advice about servicing would be most welcome.

aslak
Member
1 year 10 months ago

Thank you Till72, very well written!!
I think it is a good idea to focus on the Saab cars on this blog.
And I think that we are a lot of Saab drivers that are planning to drive our Saabs for many years in the future!

100%Saab
Member
1 year 10 months ago

Agree.

baas900i
Member
1 year 10 months ago

does this mean that Tim & Trued have moved on?

kochje
Member
1 year 10 months ago

I hope not, there is no reason they should leave…….

nordican
Member
1 year 10 months ago

Well written.
There’s still so much to look forward to; many of us wouldn’t be able to afford a brand new Saab, but gradually the newer Saabs come ‘within reach’ of many of us true Saab fans. No doubt there’s lots to write about looking at it that way; I’m still looking forward to owning a used NG 9-5 Aero in a few years from now; it still beats most other brands’ models in my view..

Patrik H
Member
1 year 10 months ago

+1

metalhead
Member
1 year 10 months ago

I would think posts regarding technical and modification posts would be good. Stuff like resolving weird and loud engine vibrations, or turbo upgrading, ECU finr tuning etc to get even more power/ efficiency. Getting tuners like maptun or even Nordic to talk about how they get cars tuned to specific levels, but not those over the top 1000hp Saab though those are nice and I would love one:)

artizangbr
Member
1 year 10 months ago
I love the idea about a technical blog. I have left a few posts in the other forum here hoping for a response but rarely got any, so more focus on helping fellow saabers in the main blog would help us all. I have a 2008 93 v6 aero with sat nav which is playing up saying nav disk read error, my disk has quite a few marks on it so I was looking to upgrade the maps (mine says 2005). A map upgrade seems almost impossible to find, let alone find out what make of nav I have (which… Read more »
Chris Hansel
Member
1 year 10 months ago

Till, +1. Only one comment, tech stuff is great, but be careful it does not become the only thing that appears on SU. So many of the old clubs, that is all they do. Keep SU fresh and alive with stories of people and their cars. take care

Jesse Crandle
Member
1 year 10 months ago

I will still have Saabs for decades, and I have to admit I find it strange that Tim as a moderator is so quick to jump ship and get rid of ALL his Saabs even though they were just a few years old and he has many vehicles. Honestly I’ve never been able to afford a new Saab (or a new anything), so the whole self repair and keeping old things going is nothing new to me. My ’86 SPG has 270,000 miles on it!

Angelo V.
Member
1 year 10 months ago
Jesse: In some ways, it might make more sense to keep an old Saab than a newer one. The parts supply for older ones is probably better than some of the newer models (especially the Mullermobiles). Also, to the extent that there is ANY value left in one of the newer ones, maybe it’s best to unload them now if possible—-trading in toward a new car—-because in a very short time, these cars will be virtually worthless, if parts are scarce, software not supported, etc. These last Saabs are perhaps the worst type of orphan car—-might end up with literally… Read more »
JerseySaab
Member
1 year 10 months ago
Angelo, I would agree on the parts situation, the newer Saabs are likely going to be in the high-risk category in a few years. Mine are old enough (20-30 years!) that the primary parts sources are aftermarket and used suppliers anyway. (Sometimes it may be necessary to get creative for the odd part that is no longer available.) No software issues with these vehicles either. Even the 1st-gen 9-5 is probably not going to have parts problems for quite a while since they were in production for so long. So you should be OK for a while yet. I’ve seen… Read more »
David Robert
Member
1 year 10 months ago
I also thought it was bizarre to read that Tim got rid of his 9-5, because my thought process is that I’m going to keep my ’07 9-5 wagon forever as an heirloom & I’m a slaab college student currently living on unemployment loll I mean yea once I graduate && the man is out of the navy and I get a real job I’ll be aspiring for the new Volvo V90 if it has any interior resemblance of the new xc90. && BMW?!? you couldn’t pay me to drive a 3 series, marginal safety rating in the small overlap… Read more »
phermansson
Member
1 year 10 months ago

Its not bizzare at all, if you know what I know! I simply have no faith in the guarantees that Orio make, that spare parts will be available.

I’ve driven a 2014 3-series GT for the past two weeks and the seats are just as good or even better than in my 2010 9-5 and with all the technologies making it more easy to drive I actually end up at work more relaxed than I ever did in my 9-5. The headlights are better making night-driving more relaxing as well!

PS my commute to work is 2,5 hours! ONE WAY!

Angelo V.
Member
1 year 10 months ago
No need to explain Tim. Bottom line: There are no more new Saabs. If someone wants a new car, they must go somewhere else. BMW is an excellent choice and again, it’s interesting, to me at least, to get an idea of where Saab owners are going—-what brands they’re migrating to and why. It will also be interesting to get thoughts from you and others, six months down the road—-as to how the transition is going. What will you miss about your Saab? What will you like most about your new ride? Unless and until NEVS or someone else starts… Read more »
phermansson
Member
1 year 10 months ago
As it looks now we’ll take delivery of our first new BMW in Week 4, the 2nd one is coming in week 8 of next year. I’ve been driving a 3-series Gran Tourismo for the past 2 weeks and I can say that there are a number of small things that were more clever in Saabs but overall I’m more impressed with the GT than I was of the 9-5 or 9-3. But even so the things I miss, I miss mostly because I was used to doing things a certain way in the car and in the those ways… Read more »
nordican
Member
1 year 10 months ago

Ah…. the Germans, they’re so ‘superior’….. 🙁

phermansson
Member
1 year 10 months ago
They are good at many things and not so good at many other things… but you know that BMW and SAAB were about the same size in the 70’s and 80’s, Saab was even ahead of BMW in terms of technology in the 80’s but there is a reason why in 2014 BMW is selling 2 million cars per year and Saab is bankrupt =( Not a single day goes by without me wishing that Victor would have managed to save Saab and that I could walk through the doors of my dealer to buy a brand new 9-5… but… Read more »
nordican
Member
1 year 10 months ago

Have you ever considered an Audi? I remember a time (I must be getting old…) when an Audi 200 turbo and a 9000 turbo16 attracted similar people. Both brands had comparable technological views regarding cars.
But that’s a long time ago for sure…. 😉

phermansson
Member
1 year 10 months ago

I’ve got a lot of colleagues who used to own Audi’s but many of them left the brand due to too many break downs and these were RS cars… they make nice cars but I’ve been advised against them by friends…

David Robert
Member
1 year 10 months ago
yea i only have experience up front with a $68+K 5 series seats which were just not up to par, nothing like the seats in my moms ’10 XC60 T6 where you just jump in and its pure comfort lust & that car was only $46K new but obviously she bought it certified pre-owned(volvo still honors factory scheduled maintenance for CPO in NA unlike bimm but that’s n/a for you). && I guess you have less incentive to keep your saab in sweden where they are so common, while in new england its more like driving something rare & exotic,… Read more »
phermansson
Member
1 year 10 months ago

Volvo make great cars too and their seats have always been good!

David Robert
Member
1 year 10 months ago
having gone for a test drive with victor muller in the passengers seat in the new 9-5 in the catskill mountains back when all was well, and pulling over to make him show me that infamous image of the small saab concept on his phone that swade always talked about is something I will never forget. After the bankruptcy I stopped coming to this site, too depressing & didn’t help the healing process loll. & I don’t condemn your for moving on to bmw, christ my part german boyfriend loves them, & I being part swedish will stick with swedish… Read more »
Cash
Member
1 year 10 months ago

@Tim, how realistic to compare seats in a SAAB 9-5 ‘2010 which was first introduced in 1996 with BWM GT ‘2014, introduced 2008!

Why are you so harsh and rude in your comments and reply?
You are a bit to sensitive…

phermansson
Member
1 year 10 months ago
The 2010 9-5 Griffin seats were introduced in 2009 and built upon the sport-seats that were introduced in 2006. Fantastic seats in every way that I have enjoyed a lot! And the GT was introduced in 2013… Being sensitive, sure… I can be that at times… there isn’t a single day that goes by without me thinking about the day when I stood 2 meters away from Victor Muller when he announced that Saab Automobile AB declared bankruptcy!… I’ve tried to keep the spirit up on this site for the past 3,5 years but sadly being the bearer of continuos… Read more »
jouni72
Member
1 year 10 months ago
I don’t think anyone is bashing you for buying a new product (well I’m not – I understand the need in business to have a ‘new’ vehicle), but it’s more the manner of the exit. Reading some of your comments, it feels like you’re burning bridges. Rather than focus on the negativity directed towards you; think about the thousands of other people around here who are doing their best to keep their Saabs going. Not everyone here is flush with money or jobs etc. and it’s a real struggle. I don’t think you’ve meant to, but it comes across as… Read more »
phermansson
Member
1 year 10 months ago
I would have loved to keep my Saab, buying that car is by far one of the biggest investments I’ve done in my life. But I have to be honest here as well when people say that they are going to keep their cars for ever and they question why I don’t do the same… I value your honesty Luke but I know that I have been extremely naive with Spyker, Saab and NEVS. I see things more clearly now and I see more than one point of view which used to be the unquestionable point of view of a… Read more »
Jesse Crandle
Member
1 year 10 months ago
I think therein lies a lot of the difference between you and I, Tim. I love being my own mechanic, and I can’t afford any vehicle that’s been made in the last 8 years, so that being said the luxury an old used Saab provides (when from what I understand the quality was higher) then I much rather have a Saab than say an old Toyota. A 10 year old Saab beats a 10 year old Toyota every day all day for me. The fear of my car breaking down and leaving me stranded is always there, and I’m on… Read more »
jouni72
Member
1 year 10 months ago
Tim, appreciate the reply. You seem down about the whole thing and you shouldn’t be – and you shouldn’t think that your efforts for Saab have been wasted or anything like it. Nor should you feel let down. Yes, maybe some actions weren’t the best, and perhaps ulterior motives were in play, but, in my view at least, Saab was sunk the minute the Swedish government said that they ‘weren’t in the car making business.’ Everything was like CPR after that. I don’t know you, but I sense you feel a bit like how I felt when I stopped running… Read more »
troy
Member
1 year 10 months ago

I need that. I want to keep it running forever and I really would love to be able to talk parts and tech. Awesome.

Dave Clark
Member
1 year 10 months ago

+1, I sold my german SUV and just acquired a 9-4x! For the reason that the german maintenance problems were way too much.

LarsG
Member
1 year 10 months ago
SaabsUnited should be a blog for Saab enthusiasts and its primary should be to discuss the brand SAAB. During latter time, some that I believed were true SAAB enthusiasts, left SAAB and select a German brand. Of course it is up and free to choose which brand one want, but to be a real Saab enthusiast I think that you are loyal against Saab as long there are hopes. We have seen on other brands that have disappeared that it nevertheless is possible to get spare parts. We know that it is possible to drive more than 100,000 km with… Read more »
aus715
Member
1 year 10 months ago
Keeping our cars on the road is The Imperative. I love my 9-5 Estate to bits. Literally. I am constantly maintaining and fixing it so it runs as well as it can. After 200,000km and 12 years it is still doing a fabulous job doing what it was designed to do. No other car i have come across does what this car does. Two beds in the back, any Ikea flatpack, tow a camper trailer, boat, 4 up for 2000km on the highway fully loaded to the roof, with a dog. This car deserves to live on, and down here… Read more »
Bullnose
Member
1 year 10 months ago
I used to get my Saab news from this site. Not any longer. Via Google and Reuters: Oct 24 (Reuters) – General Motors Co persuaded a federal appeals court to uphold the dismissal of a $3 billion lawsuit in which Spyker NV accused it of derailing a plan to sell the Swedish automaker Saab to a Chinese company. The 6th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in Cincinnati on Friday said Spyker failed to show GM intentionally interfered with the Dutch company’s effort to sell Saab to Zhejiang Youngman Lotus Automobile Co, leading to Saab’s bankruptcy. GM had sold a majority… Read more »
Angelo V.
Member
1 year 10 months ago

Somebody mentioned this in a comment the other day. The way I see it, it’s between GM and Muller and has very little to do with Saab, as both GM and Muller have moved on. I wish NEVS was relevant enough to get Reuters coverage. Any featured articles there about NEVS?

scand
Member
1 year 10 months ago

Looks like Spyker is in even worse straits than NEVS. The landlord of their factory was in court in the Netherlands today to kick them out of the building due to unpaid rent – 152000 eur worth.

Dagen Runt
Member
1 year 10 months ago

It’s the weirdest frigging company. Exclusive 100 grand corporate bonds and all. Nevs still takes the cake.

3cyl
Member
1 year 10 months ago

Yes, they are both unusual companies. Both appear to have a business purpose more geared to raising money than making money. I want to accept that there is more to it than that, but then again it seems that entities or individuals with legitimate funds to invest can find a better place than Spyker or NEVS to do it..

Angelo V.
Member
1 year 10 months ago

3cyl: And Elio is being accused of the same thing—-raising money but might never actually bring their 3 wheeler to market. Since there’s been money, there have been scams. I hope Elio is for real. NEVS was not for real.

3cyl
Member
1 year 10 months ago

Elio must be for real – the vehicle has 3 cylinders.

JerseySaab
Member
1 year 10 months ago

Shades of the nearly-forgotten Dale 3-wheeler!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twentieth_Century_Motor_Car_Corporation

Hopefully unlike the Dale, Elio will actually deliver. I couldn’t see myself riding around in one, though.

VikingAir
Member
1 year 10 months ago

Although I can understand the criticism of the hardcore Saab fans, maybe we should all respect eachother’s choice of car brand.
Let’s just hope Tim will not start to drive like the typical ‘BMW maniac’… 😉
But with his aviation background I’m sure he will not starting to behave like so many BMW drivers do nowadays…

phermansson
Member
1 year 10 months ago

Thank you

Considering that there is a good chance that I’ll loose my pilots license if I loose my drivers license the chance of me driving like a maniac is pretty low =)… I’m more interested in good fuel economy than driving fast, but when I’m overtaking someone, I want a car that’ll allow me to spend the minimum amount of time possible on the wrong side of the road! and getting a car that’ll do 0-100 km/h in 5,6 seconds is that kind of car! =)

VikingAir
Member
1 year 10 months ago

I agree, that’s why I considered buying a mighty Cayenne V8 Turbo…. 🙂
But I can’t afford it (yet..) 🙁

So, for now, I’m happy keeping my Maptuned 9-3 Aero on the road…. 😉

Jesse Crandle
Member
1 year 10 months ago
When I bought my girlfriend’s Saab for her (a 2003 convertible) it was in seriously rough shape, and it still has a lot of issues. The ground cable was wires that were crimped to a connector on the battery, transmission fluid was never changed (95,000 miles on it), the PCV lines were completely hooked up in the wrong order, the vacuum lines to the brake booster and intake manifold were super glued together and would come apart/cause rough idling and stalling, her cam cover gasket was leaking badly, her spark plugs were NOT NGK plugs, and were actually made for… Read more »
VikingAir
Member
1 year 10 months ago

+1

Angelo V.
Member
1 year 10 months ago
I wish I had the mechanical ability to do what you have done with that car. Frankly, as you described that car, I was thinking you paid under a thousand bucks for it though, not $4500! I just checked “trade in” value on my Saab yesterday. My Saab is a 9-5 wagon, the ARC model. It has just under 37,000 miles on it. It’s been garaged since it was new—-I am the original owner. It’s only been serviced at Saab dealers, even for oil changes—-has never been disturbed by any other shop—-only Saab techs and has had very few repairs,… Read more »
JerseySaab
Member
1 year 10 months ago

Actually, I just recently spent $4000 on a 1995 9000! But this car is practically like new, it’s like a time capsule. It drives like it’s hardly broken in yet, and needed only a few minor items attended to. (The previous owner maintained it religiously. Most of the wear items that normally would need to be serviced on an older used car won’t need attention for some time. It won’t even need an oil change for a while!)

Chris Carrier
Member
1 year 10 months ago
This discussion of respecting other car choices and can’t we all get along… misses the point (my point anyway). I bet there are 25 BMW or general German car blogs I could find in two minutes on Google. I would go there if I wanted to. Or any general car blog/site (who won’t be talking about Saab). I come here because of the Saab stuff. Even Saab stuff not relevant to me. Neo Bros? Please, I’m in the states; It has little to do with me or what I’m doing with my cars. Still, I don’t mind seeing it. By… Read more »
Vince
Guest
1 year 10 months ago

What about a marketplace for saab parts at SU? If we want to keep our beloved saabs rolling… It can be an alternative for the known parts distributors. This way it may be easier to find your part and trade or buy it from another Saabist.
Another idea is to post more personal stories (on holiday with or visting events etc.) about you and your saab.

phermansson
Member
1 year 10 months ago

We’ve tried that about a year ago and only had about 6 entries after 4 months so we shut it down…

Posting more personal stories is nice but they are hard to come by, it would be great to have you guys send us your stories! We’ve tried to get clubs more involved as well with representatives from clubs being able to write on the site but we’ve seen very little progress on that part as well sadly…

LarsG
Member
1 year 10 months ago

It happens that we compare SAAB with other brands as Audi, Bmw and Mercedes. It is surely OK. I do not Think, however, that SaabsUnited will be a PR site for other brands. I can intend that Bmw rubs their hands of delight for the attention they got here on SaabsUnited.

Angelo V.
Member
1 year 10 months ago

I think BMW is too busy trying to keep up with the demand for their cars to worry too much about whether they’re getting coverage here. Comparing our Saabs to other brands is about the only thing we have left for Saab fans who are actually interested in buying a factory new car. Sad, but as of now, true. I hope a credible company can get this away from NEVS and start to build cars again. Soon.

phermansson
Member
1 year 10 months ago

Exactly!

phermansson
Member
1 year 10 months ago
I can’t tell you if they rub their hands in anything since we’ve got ZERO contact with BMW in relation to Saab. Neither me nor Jörgen have ever discussed anything regarding SU with BMW Sweden. They only know about BMWB, our swedish blog which we had to apply for approval in order to start, the guys in Munich had the final decision on that one. If any of you think that we are getting some kind of good deal from BMW for mentioning them here you are sadly mistaken! We’re paying for the cars just like anyone else… We never… Read more »
Peter Dillington
Member
1 year 10 months ago
Tim, I think that you should seriously consider logging out and never logging back in again. If you are disgruntled about the way Saab, or any other brand have treated you do not take it out on this forum. You do not own this blog anymore, correct? Your comments also show how little you know, in truth, about the industry as a whole. Your knowledge is within the Saab sphere but you are on seriously deep water if you for one second think that used cars do not matter to car companies. Selling new cars is of course what is… Read more »
phermansson
Member
1 year 10 months ago

Nope, I’m not gonna do that… =)

Peter Dillington
Member
1 year 10 months ago
No Tim I think you are wrong. I am allowed to write here because the owner, Till72(?), allows me to write on his blog, if you want to be nitty gritty. I am not being rude Tim, I am telling you the truth and correcting your misguided beliefs in the auto industry. It is easy mistakes to make but that is what they are, mistakes. You have proven again and again that your knowledge about Saab is exceptional but outside that comfort zone, and with the industry as a whole you are seriously misguided and have a very local market… Read more »
Angelo V.
Member
1 year 10 months ago
Peter: Manufacturers are most interested in new car sales and perhaps sales of their “Certified Pre-Owned Vehicles” (CPOs). I’m sure they’re happy to sell parts for used cars through their dealers—but those cars are on the road already, so they’re going to sell those parts whether the used cars are sold through their dealership or by someone else. Manufacturers do not make money from service, at least not in the U.S. Their franchised dealerships make that money, not the manufacturers. Resale/residual value is important in that cars with a high resale value are often more desirable to new car shoppers—in… Read more »
3cyl
Member
1 year 10 months ago

Tim, if what you say about the lack of new car buyers here is true (and I assume it is), the problem is compounded further as buyers of new SAABs have gotten so used paying well under sticker for so long that is likely they will balk at the price of a new SAAB if it were to become available. Given his scenario and the historical lack of SAAB buyers in the first place, it is understandable that the appeal of the brand among potential investors isn’t too high and that they will need to target a different market.

JerseySaab
Member
1 year 10 months ago
We actually have been getting sales brochures from BMW in the mail. I don’t know if it’s because we have Saabs registered. (I don’t know how it is in Europe, but here in the U.S. our motor vehicle agencies are infamous for selling such personal information to advertisers.) We certainly have not purchased any new luxury cars to get on such a mailing list. Back in the 1980s, at least in the U.S., Saab was seen as a very serious driving machine that was at least in the same league as BMW. People even oohed and aahed over the “lowly”… Read more »
phermansson
Member
1 year 10 months ago

Its the same here, even 10 days after I sold my 9-5 I got sales brochures from all kinds of different brands offering me all kinds of discounts if I bought a car from them…

Subaru make really nice cars, I tried them out and I liked them, perhaps a bit too much plastic in the interiors but overall nice cars! =)

Angelo V.
Member
1 year 10 months ago
I have a BMW and Saab in my family of cars—-and a Kia as well. It’s very likely my next new car purchase will be one of those brands and we know where Saab is now—and we know if they ever return to my market, it will probably be AFTER my next new car purchase. So how could it be that I’ll be comparing BMW and Kia? Well, the lowest price BMWs do overlap with some of the Kias that I’d be looking at. And Kia has also gone very far upmarket with the K900. There’s overlap in the lines.… Read more »
Kevin Smith
Member
1 year 10 months ago
I have been following this site for years , and have followed closely since the real troubles began with GM. I like many here love Saabs.. I have just recently created an account as in the past I had no real comments to add that had not already been posted.. But in this case a response to Tim’s post is in order. (((“” Honestly, there are so few people here at SU who have ever bought new cars in their lives so I dont think any other manufacturer is really interested in the group of people reading this blog. Car… Read more »
phermansson
Member
1 year 10 months ago
If you have a look at the annual reports from SAAB over the years you’ll see that the spare-parts market for Saab at best accounted for about 2-4% of the total profits of the company (world wide sales). If you then also look at the cost effectiveness implementations made by the company after 2002 (The Viggen project) you’ll see that the savings added another 8-9% in increased revenue (less waist). Saabs biggest hurdle were warranty claims which totally kiled the profits from new car sales. Gearbox warranties was a major issue in the mid-2000 as well as the oil-sludge problem… Read more »
Angelo V.
Member
1 year 10 months ago
It’s disturbing that warranty relief was such a big blow to Saab. That doesn’t speak well of the product—-not at all. If a car’s engineering is good, build quality is meticulous, quality control is solid—-you shouldn’t end up with warranty claims that impact the bottom line so harshly. It appears then, that Consumer Reports and other customer satisfaction guides are correcting in listing Saab as being problematic and expensive to fix. That’s a really bad combination. If a car is expensive to fix, with expensive parts—-but is reliable, that’s okay. And if the car is somewhat problematic, but with inexpensive… Read more »
Phillip
Guest
1 year 10 months ago

Hi Till. For me it would be really helpful to have information on how to look after our Saabs in the long term. What things to look out for? Common problems etc. What parts we should keep as spare and where to get them? That would be really helpful for the people who want to keep their cars for as long as hey can.

Saabgun
Member
1 year 10 months ago
Since it is almost 4 years the last Saabs roled out the factory, it’s normal people looking for a new car have to consider something else. I have 4 Saabs, a 96, a 900, a 9-3 Aero convertible and a 9-5ng. The two oldest I will surely keep forever, but I’m at a point I have to replace the 9-3. I am seriously considering the new Volvo XJ90 Hybrid. Never the less I hope that november 29, brings better news from Tröllhattan and plans will be announced that the (new) owners plan to make a range of new models. It… Read more »
Coke is it
Member
1 year 10 months ago
I think that BMW has gotten to much attention from SU that they don’t deserve. I’m happy for those on SU that has bought a new BMW but SU is not the place to write about them. Anyhow, I would prefer to read articles that are related to Saab and at this time BMW is not related to them all. I would love to read more about the cars from Dongfeng and Mahindra since they are the two rumored partners. How are there cars in terms of performance, safety, and so on. What could Saab bring to them to make… Read more »
Angelo V.
Member
1 year 10 months ago
I would love to read the things you outlined—-I’ve done some research to see the Mahindra, SsangYong and Dongfeng models and would like to get reactions from people who are technically oriented—-what Saab engineers/stylists might do to make these cars more desirable for people who have owned Saabs or are interested in Saabs. It’s a great suggestion Coke—-but I do disagree with you about BMW coverage. BMW is one line that some Saab purists have put out there as a benchmark. I am very interested in knowing which lines Saab drivers are planning to migrate to when NEVS finally implodes… Read more »
Paul Willis
Member
1 year 10 months ago
I have strayed from the straight and narrow a couple of times over the years, the odd BMW, Alfa spiders, MGB, even an Audi coupe, but always came back to a Saab. When the one I have now goes to Saab heaven (1991 convt with 317K miles), I am not sure what I am going to do. I am not a big BMW fan. I think I may look for another decent Saab convertible but a 9-3 if I can find one with reasonably low miles. Or maybe a Honda S2000 (gasp) Or maybe even a Mini convertible (gasp gasp).… Read more »
Angelo V.
Member
1 year 10 months ago

Paul: if you don’t mind driving an orphan, there are still deals to be had on Saab convertibles—-much newer and with low mileage than your ’91. International Motors Autohaus in Virginia recently has a beautiful white convertible with a tan top—-as I recall, low mileage. I just went to their website to look for it and it’s gone—-must have sold. I think they were asking under $6000.00 for it.

Paul Willis
Member
1 year 10 months ago
I generally find myself agreeing with Angelo V. on these matters. I recently looked at used cars for my daughter, and the value of old Saabs has plummeted from what it was a couple of years ago. The 9-5s in particular seemed to be incredibly cheap given that they were relatively expensive when new. And I could have picked up a nice 9-3 convertible for peanuts (not right for my daughter, and I was not in the market for one now, but it was surprising nonetheless). And Saabs are known to be fiddly anyway–yes they can be maintained with a… Read more »
metalhead
Member
1 year 10 months ago
So here is something interesting, just a few weeks ago, i saw a brand spanking new silver linear 9-3 when I sent in my car for repairs. Which I believe is from end 2009 or 2010. So I asked the one of the guys ( there’s no more Saab salesmen) when did they have new cars. The guy ( Swedish, hired just to provide technical advice on Saab) told me it belonged to the owner of the dealership. He kept it for so many years, only to just register it a month ago, and it’s getting a Hirsch tune:) Was… Read more »
metalhead
Member
1 year 10 months ago

I do believe it is the real last brand new Saab registered in the world right now:)

3cyl
Member
1 year 10 months ago

If it is a 2009, it could be the last GM era SAAB to be registered and probably the last 9-3. However there are still a few new NG 9-5’s available.

Angelo V.
Member
1 year 10 months ago

Aren’t there some NEVS 9-3s unsold?

3cyl
Member
1 year 10 months ago

It could be, Angelo. I guess I was trying to forget about NEVS. But since you brought them up, I wonder if any dealers who took in a shipment just before NEVS imploded paid NEVS for any cars that might not have sold yet.

Eugene Hui
Member
1 year 10 months ago
KEEP IT SAAB RELATED! I come to this site to find out about Saab cars and their future — and not to read long eulogies of other brands. I could go to other sites if I want to discuss other brands in detail. It is OK to mention other brands only in the context of technologies which it might be relevant for the (hopefully!) new generation of SAABs to incorporate. So, my suggestion of topics for this site is that whilst we are waiting for a new generation Saab, I would find it useful and interesting to hear about engineering… Read more »
Angelo V.
Member
1 year 10 months ago
My 2004 9-5 has a slide out visor extender. I think if and when there’s a Saab future to talk about, based on facts and not fantasy, all of the people writing for this site and posting here will be focused on Saab’s future, excited about the chance to buy a new Saab again. Until then, the only thing we have to discuss is the reorganization and I think it’s been beaten to death. I guess at the end of November, it’ll be a Come To Jesus moment for NEVS. With the Grace of God, Saab will have a new… Read more »
Eugene Hui
Member
1 year 10 months ago

Re visor:- That’s strange because I have both a 2001 and a 2006 9-5 and neither of them have a sunvisor extender. Instead they have a secondary visor that swings to the side, but no use for those gaps or for blocking rear headlights.

3cyl
Member
1 year 10 months ago

I have a policy of not driving behind cars with rear headlights. Seriously though, the autodimming rearview mirror on my SAAB does a very good job of controlling headlight glare.

Angelo V.
Member
1 year 10 months ago

You know what Eugene? I have to look at my Saab again. I have 5 cars, so I might be confused. Maybe it is just a secondary visor on the Saab and not a slide out.

Trued
Member
1 year 10 months ago
____________________________________________________________________ Bottom line ____________________________________________________________________ The reason why SAAB is not around anymore is due to poor sales. If everyone who reads and comments on SU would have acted just like Tim and I bought BRAND New cars, SAAB would probably been around today. It is a collectiive responsibiltiy to support a car brand and the only way iof doing that is to buy their products. So called Saab-Fans did not do that, they liked to drive around in their OG 900 and 9000 models with 30+ years and where upset that Saab was in poor condition with low sales. In… Read more »
RS
Member
1 year 10 months ago
Well, not entirely true. Saab didin’t manufacture for over 10 years a car thousands of people would have wanted to buy (any kind of hatchback). We bought a new 9-3 sedan anyway because it was the safest new vehicle on the market at the time. Then when our life cicumstances changed and we would have needed a bigger car they stopped making even the good ol’ 9-5 wagon. Cannot say for sure had we bought a 15 year old model that was further downgraded a few years prior, but I can tell you this: We would have spent some 50k… Read more »
3cyl
Member
1 year 10 months ago

Trued, a result of poor sales was that new SAABs could be purchased well below MSRP. I am not referring to a price based on heavy negotiation. Dealers advertised the cars at huge discounts even in the GM era. I suppose you could argue that as fans even those of us who bought new should have gone to the showroom and offered to pay a premium over the advertised price directly to SAAB so that they might make a profit on what we were buying.

Angelo V.
Member
1 year 10 months ago
The real bottom line is that most of the time, people don’t make a decision to purchase a new car based on supporting a brand. The timing has to do with when their leases run out or when their current car becomes unreliable or “too old” and they want something new. I guess my point is that no manufacturer should expect people to trade a car they love or break a lease early to “support” them. Honda and Toyota don’t seem to be doing that. When the timing is right, people go out looking for a new car. Most of… Read more »
Patrik H
Member
1 year 10 months ago

+1

JerseySaab
Member
1 year 10 months ago

Absolutely correct, Angelo. “Bottom line” is that not everyone who likes Saabs has $40K to $50K burning a hole in their pocket, or has a desire to go into years of debt slavery to buy a car. Here in the U.S. we’re starting to see car loans stretched out to 8 years or more! (No thanks, I’ve worked long and hard to get to a position where I have no debt at all and no way am I getting back on that treadmill.)

RS
Member
1 year 10 months ago

Jersey, buying an expensive vehicle doesn’t mean you have to go into debt if you own a car that hasn’t deprecated too much. That’s why I totally understand why even people from the SU Crew are ditching their 3-4 year old Saabs.
Heck, if I’d drive 60.000 km in the middle of the night like Tim, I probably would’n pick up a pre-owned Saab MY10 with no warranty for the job either. Especially if you want to try something else (and a bit more modern) for a change.

Joe
Guest
1 year 10 months ago

And is it not the responsibility of the automobile manufacturer to provide a quality and up-to-date product for their loyal base? No company should “expect” business…it has to be earned every day.

100%Saab
Member
1 year 10 months ago

I bought a new Saab in 2008 and 2009. It did not make any difference. I buy Saab parts now and wait.

Doug R.
Guest
1 year 10 months ago
I simply believe Nevs when they purchased Saab had no care about past Saab owners…. I believe they had a deal with the Chinese government to buy cars (fleet etc).. for x… With that, x $$$$ from investments or a cash infusion. Quick money … With zero foresight going forward… As we know there was a glitch in that plan and here we are. We can all see clearly now why they had zero interest creating anything but the bare minimum with little or next to nothing in PR… That said if very little was spent on designs of the… Read more »
Angelo V.
Member
1 year 10 months ago
Doug: Great post, as always. If anything, I would say that “glitch” is an understatement. I’d call their plan a calamity for Saab, for fans of Saab, for the employees of Saab, etc. A disaster. It angers me, thinking about what they threw away—the chance to bring Saab back to relevance. Phoenix? I honestly don’t know enough about the viability of car platforms and when they become obsolete. I do know that from a marketing/sales standpoint, sometimes it doesn’t really matter much. While an engineer might say a platform is obsolete, that doesn’t mean cars can’t successfully be sold using… Read more »
Doug R.
Guest
1 year 10 months ago

Spot on Angelo,,,, Darn shame..

3cyl
Member
1 year 10 months ago

Doug, NEVS may have been right not to care about SAAB owners. As a group we have consistently shown that we are not substantial enough to support a car company. This is not to say that the direction NEVS took was viable, but rather that any owner of SAAB might do better to target a market different from traditional SAAB customers.

Angelo V.
Member
1 year 10 months ago
3cyl: I completely agree with that. A different target market can mean a lot of different things. To me, it means broadening the audience to include a large group of people who can’t afford $50,000 for a new car, $40,000 or even 35K. To me, the “new Saab buyer” should be younger than the old demographic, and planning to spend $25,000 or thereabouts, not $55,000. That’s a massive departure but I think it’s one that is the only chance at viability for Saab. And we’ll build the car based on the target price—-not build the car to some ideal that… Read more »
3cyl
Member
1 year 10 months ago
Angelo, price may have been an issue in the Spyker era, but not so much before that. The MSRPs might not have been low, but dealers advertised the cars well below those stickers. What is needed is products that appeal to more people. There may be an owner who can accomplish that and still offer a a car that appeals to us long-time SAAB owners. However, it will probably be a lot easier for an owner to simply build something that will meld into the larger market without giving much consideration to what we think of it. The main thing… Read more »
Angelo V.
Member
1 year 10 months ago
It’s not only price 3cyl, it’s value. That’s why I mentioned no sunroof. Even buyers at the higher end want value for what they are paying. There’s no doubt that Saab was no longer convincing prospective customers that the cars offered value. Part of that was failed advertising deployment. “Value” should have been pointed out in safety—-active and passive safety—-things you couldn’t see. Instead, we were “Born from Jets” which meant nothing—sounded like fluff. Born from jets, costs about as much as one and like a jet, doesn’t have a sunroof. That was a non-starter. 3cyl: Saab also failed because… Read more »
3cyl
Member
1 year 10 months ago

I think SAABs of the GM era represented very good value based on advertised prices (rather than MSRP), but obviously not many people in the market for a car felt the same way. On the other hand, those advertised prices did not represent prices that could generate profits for SAAB. I suppose that with effective marketing anything can be sold for a profit, but at the low end of the market SAAB would have to absorb a lot of losses while trying to build volume to the level needed to make money.

Angelo V.
Member
1 year 10 months ago
I bought my 9-5 for about $4000.00 under sticker as I recall. The dealer didn’t lose money on that car. Sales commission was made and the dealer made less profit than they hoped for maybe, but no one was financially mugged in that scenario. Was my car a value? When you figure in depreciation and cost of ownership, along with features, no my car was not a “value” even at $4000.00 below sticker. A Toyota Camry with all the toys on it would have represented a “better value” over years of ownership. Do I care? No. I wanted a Saab,… Read more »
Eugene Hui
Member
1 year 10 months ago

EVs :
I found this documentary about the Tesla car factory interesting. Gives some insight into what Saab/NEVS is up against. Also, Elon Musk (with his team) seems to have captured the focus and love of engineering that SAAB used to have (until numbed by the GM orthodoxy and centralised bureaucracy…).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Tvh_brqMJgU

RAnderson
Member
1 year 10 months ago
It’s nice that some people here want and can afford new cars, all power to them, but it’s arrogant to assert that SU fans, or any car’s fans, have some supposed obligation to support any brand… cars are sold because of perceived value in best meeting the buyer’s needs. Evidently SAAB has not done so. To lay on a guilt trip because not enough SU fan/members bought new SAABs is ridiculous, not to mention specious reasoning. Yes, not enough cars were sold, but obviously that was because not enough people wanted them, for many reasons, some of them mentioned above.… Read more »
Angelo V.
Member
1 year 10 months ago

Bravo! Bravo!

SaabKen
Member
1 year 10 months ago
Well said !!! I’ve only ever owned one brand new car in my entire driving life to date (since 1984) and my 1993 9000 CSE was one I owned the longest (2001-2011). And it was also the only car I’ve invested THE MOST in terms of buying used and new parts, getting it serviced, etc. Oh and not to mention becoming inspired by my ownership of it to actually start my own regional Saab club. Now I’m on my second Saab and while its maintenance is considerably lower (thank God !!) than my 9000, I’m every bit a Saab devotee… Read more »
wpDiscuz