There is only ONE possible future owner of SAAB Cars and that is SAAB AB

Skärmavbild 2015-01-18 kl. 11.04.21

Making the future cars SAFE and filled with the needed technologies needs SAAB Technologies AB, Picture above from SAAB AB

Once upon a time SAAB was on par or even in front of many competing brands. In the `70ies with the 99 Turbo Saab could strike a blow against BMW, Volvo and others. In a way one could say that cars where not so complicated then. Quite simple electrical systems and lack of what we today take for granted in a premium car. Saab took a big step forward in 1968 with the 99 model a car that more or less lived on through 900 all the way to 1994. That was possible through the great basic engineering that started in 1964 in Trollhättan. Chassis with dual wishbone configuration just like a Formula racer car. Disc brakes all around a sturdy rear axle with a Panhard stabilizing rod. All in all a great wide-shouldered Swede. That was in last millennium. Now mankind has taken giant leaps forward in various technologies, material, computers, communication and more.
A premium car of today must be able to compete with stuff that was unheard of in the old Saab heydays.

For the last 15 years I have been working for the Swedish National Defense Research Agency. I have seen the present and future technologies the great SAAB AB people have developed and has in the pipe for the future. Many of the areas they excel in has products and technologies that can be adopted to a modern car. As I see it the ONLY company that can supply cutting edge technologies for a future SAAB car is SAAB technologies.

Some technology areas where SAAB Technologies AB has great expertise and knowledge:

– Light weight constructions: Carbon fibre and plastics baked in autoclaves. This is crucial technologies for making efficient cars.
– Aerodynamics including active aerodynamic & flow control
– Laser technologies: SAAB AB has this knowledge, in targeting and visualization systems.
– Infrared sensors for making sense of the surrounding.
– Systems-of-Systems datafusion to understand the surrounding making refined information for the driver/pilot to support the decision making.
– Communication systems, between cars (near-field) and other longer range
– Making of specialized secure computer systems in the car.
– Safety systems, theft & burglary.
– Man-Machine-Interaction, making high advanced work environments for super efficient handling of the car, utilizing 3rd generation HUD etc.

and
– Still there is a lot of companies in Trollhättan with skilled engineers (but for how long)
– Lots of skilled blue-collar technicians in the wider Trollhättan region.

The list cold be made even longer. My botton line is the technologies above and more are crucial if one has the ambition to be competitive on the international car market.

SAAB AB should step in and take control of the “Car Division” again, the development cost will be quite low since many technologies can be take off the shelfs at home so to speak. Making a truly Swedish car with all the latent values that the brand SAAB stands for. A launch of a great car with peak technologies will support the efforts to sell Defense Technology Systems like the 39 Gripen as well.

I hope that SAAB Technologies owners sees the great possibilities in making truly HI-TECH cars, just like the others stuff in their advanced products portfolio.

Andreas
Member
1 year 8 months ago

Not so sure if the defence company Saab will invest billions and billions of SEK to develop new cars. If the Mahindra track is dead then I feel it is all over. 🙁 Sad. I wanted to buy a new Saab someday in my life but yesterday I ordered a Tesla P85D. A car that feels like a modern Saab.

Juerg_U
Member
1 year 8 months ago

I was one of the last (if not the last) who withdraw his NG 9-5 Hirsch Kombi order in Switzerland. I bought a 2006 9-5 Aero as a replacement and I am really satisfied with it (as usual) but now it’s time for a new car. Since Audi, BMW, M-B and also Jag’s are dead boring I found a new love with Tesla, Tesla seems to be my Saab 2.0. it’s sad to see a great brand go down, but I can’t change it. Saab will always be a part of my life, but I have to move on.

fred diesel
Member
1 year 8 months ago

Something like SaabAB, Mahindra, and Tesla teaming up would be awesomely refreshing?

saabboy1
Member
1 year 8 months ago
When and where did this notion of Saab the defense company become the other option to restart production? I don’t recall hearing about them when the bidding and negotiating was ongoing last year. I thought of all the choices we had Miranda was the one? Now you and Tim are both saying Saab AB (the defense arm) is interested in starting production of the car brand? Where did this come from and do you know something we don’t? I have not seen anything in the press to indicate that the defense arm was interested. At any rate, where are we… Read more »
Ralph
Member
1 year 8 months ago

“Now you and Tim are both saying Saab AB (the defense arm) is interested in starting production of the car brand?”
Huh?
I think you are reading something that clearly isn’t there, not even between the lines…

Angelo V.
Member
1 year 8 months ago

Agreed Ralph.

phermansson
Member
1 year 8 months ago

We’re not saying that they ARE interested, we’re saying that THEY SHOULD BE! =)

saabboy1
Member
1 year 8 months ago

Ok, I see. I thought I was reading it right and was wondering where Saab AB came into the picture. We’ll either way we are going to find out soon enough. Miranda has until March to come up with a deal. It would be nice to see what NEVS has come up with as far as the redesign of the 9-3. I’m sure Miranda has seen it.

phermansson
Member
1 year 8 months ago

It doesn’t matter what kind of redesign NEVS has made, the 9-3 is not going to be produced anymore… its proven to be a dead end in terms of sales and no dealers I’ve spoken to believes in it…

NEVS need to make a brand new car and let go of the old once and for all…

saabboy1
Member
1 year 8 months ago

Alright, would it be called, 900? It would have to be 9 something right? Perhaps if the name of the company is not Saab then it could be anything,

phermansson
Member
1 year 8 months ago

The name for me doesn’t matter… as long as its a brand new car that is a SAAB… There has already been two 900’s and two 9-3’s… perhaps its time for something new, but thats a different topic =)

Angelo V.
Member
1 year 8 months ago
If the car isn’t affordable to people who are in the market for a new car, all the technology in the world isn’t going to mean a hill of beans to most of us. With government regulations and increased competition—extremely competent, well equipped cars coming from all over the world—an indie will have a really hard time mass producing an affordable car these days. Platform sharing and even technology sharing is a reality today. The scenario of Saab AB getting into the car business and using their aerospace muscle to build some great cars is a nice idea—-but seems more… Read more »
aap
Member
1 year 8 months ago
Simple carmaking isn’t hightech anymore, anyone can do that, even Vietnam or Bangladesh can, so there is no money in it for us, right? Maybe, but what if you need people to have a job?, what if you have a load of fans?, what if you have a unique selling point?. Then you might consider re-industrializing, then the benefits of SAAB AB will help, then the money of Wallenberg and Investor is needed, then you can’t do without government, that’s where the Swedish people come in, to vote for the right strategy, and then in a joint strike you (fight)… Read more »
phermansson
Member
1 year 8 months ago

If its one thing I’ve learned over the years on SU, is that public opinion means absolutely zero… what matters is money, money and more money… and unless we as fans are willing to sign a contract that we’ll each one buy a brand new Saab once they are launched, our opinions mean absolutely zero, regardless of how much we scream and shout!

I for one am willing to sing such a contract!… are you?

saabboy1
Member
1 year 8 months ago

Yes, provided we get a glimpse of the new 9-3. 🙂

Angelo V.
Member
1 year 8 months ago
Has any other serious mass market car maker demanded such a thing? Instead, they just build desirable cars at prices people can afford and/or are willing to pay—-and a lot of these manufacturers are now making record profits and selling millions or hundreds of thousands of vehicles. Why would anyone in their right mind commit to buying a car without seeing the car first, driving it, etc.? Tim: Public opinion—-POSITIVE public opinion, is the one thing that actually makes money. Funny how companies like Honda, Toyota, Kia/Hyundai listened to public opinion and designed and redesigned their vehicles based on what… Read more »
phermansson
Member
1 year 8 months ago

I’ve bought a BMW that I’ve never seen before, at least a lot of the details in it, its still so new that most of the items weren’t available at the dealer…

What you can charge for a car is what people think its worth, at least enough of them to make the sales profitable. Saab can not make a car for the masses, it doesn’t have the production capability to do that. Tesla built 40k cars last year if I’m not misstaken, a volume like that would be a good start for a new Saab.

Angelo V.
Member
1 year 8 months ago
Tim: I didn’t mean the specific car you’re buying—but at the very least, a derivative of it. You have a pretty darn good idea of what BMW produces. My point was that you’re asking us to make a ridiculous leap of faith by putting money down, sight unseen, on a first effort from NEVS. They have absolutely ZERO track record, really, in doing anything automotive. They’ve done nothing to distinguish themselves. But we’re supposed to just “trust them” and commit to buying a product from them when we know very little about them, especially because they won’t say a word… Read more »
phermansson
Member
1 year 8 months ago
You need to understand what I’m writing, read it again if you have to. The point is, why should our opinion matter if we’re not prepared to put up the cash to back it up… put your money where you’re mouth is, isn’t that an american expression? As long as fans in a large group isn’t willing to commit there is absolutely no reason for a company to listen to their opinions! Why should they care about a bunch of guys who only buy used cars anyway?… I’m not saying that we should commit to buying anything, but I’m saying… Read more »
Eugene
Member
1 year 8 months ago

C’mon, Tim. How can we buy a new SAAB when no new SAAB is produced. I would love to buy a JAS39 Gripen Jet Fighter but no one will understand if I want to park it in the city centre))))

phermansson
Member
1 year 8 months ago

I didn’t say that we should buy one now… but in 8 years when they come out with a brand new one… if anyone knows they dont build cars right now, its me 😉

Angelo V.
Member
1 year 8 months ago

In 8 years, Saab’s current enthusiasts will be onto new brands and won’t look back (the vast majority of them). If the next new Saab is 8 years away, Saab is over.

Angelo V.
Member
1 year 8 months ago
Tim: If people are buying used Saabs, it means that at one time, people bought those cars new. This is a weak argument—-most car lines even have certified pre-owned programs to cash in on people who want to buy used. Toyota has a program like that and so does Mercedes—-encouraging dealers to look for cream of the crop used cars and market them to buyers. So sure, why shouldn’t people who want a Saab look for a used one? You know what might drive those buyers to a NEW Saab instead? An entry level model they could afford, that’s what.… Read more »
aap
Member
1 year 8 months ago
About those certified pre-owned programs. I always wondered why cars need to be replaced after lets say 5 years (I understand the business model o.c.). Cars are so good today that they last at least 15 years, Saabs lasted even longer but are eventually in need of a technical update. Saab airplanes last more than 50 years but are regularly updated. Fokker aircraft is still maintaining and renovating planes they produced in the eighties. Sometimes you see f.i. completely renovated classic 900’s for sale at about € 20.000. Why not adapt the business model of the airplane Saabs. So I… Read more »
David Hay
Guest
1 year 8 months ago

It would be nice, but i think I should remind you that not all of us are in a position to be able to afford a new car, let alone a new SAAB should it ever see the light of day.

phermansson
Member
1 year 8 months ago

Yes, and since you’re not a customer… why should a company care about your opinion… I’m not saying that it isn’t important to the community but in the end, money is what matters!

JerseySaab
Member
1 year 8 months ago
The used car buyer is not completely unimportant – the secondary market for the car (“trade-in value”) can be a factor for the people who buy them new. People will be less reluctant to buy a particular new car if they believe they will not be able to “unload” it when they are ready for another. Part of the problem with a lot of new cars today is that they contain some very advanced technology that may well be cost-prohibitive to maintain after the warranty runs out, making them less attractive as a used vehicle. (How much will those death-ray… Read more »
Joe
Guest
1 year 8 months ago

Hell no.

phermansson
Member
1 year 8 months ago

So why should a company care about your opinion then?

Joe
Guest
1 year 8 months ago

Making a purchasing decision on an automobile should not be based on charity.
Long term, it is pathetic and a disservice to the brand.

Alastair
Member
1 year 8 months ago

Sure would Tim, done so 23 times in the past and would be doing so in 6-weeks is there was another SAAB available but sadly no so it is more or less off to the MB showroom to get my wife fitted into a C-Class.

I should also state that the specification on the model that we will be looking at far outstrips anything that SAAB has ever produced and to be honest places it in the dark ages by comparison. I just hope the driving experience matches it too.

Sad times!

Peter Gilbert
Member
1 year 8 months ago

This is a very poignant article and I have been feeling Trued’s sentiments for as long time. I am very interested in defense industry technology and defense procurement as a daily avocation. I am very familiar with SAAB systems and I wish that the company would take her car back from out of the cold.

Without the “SAAB” logo on a car I cannot envision a comeback. I have no plans at all to replace my Viggen or the 2007
9-5 Combi that just rolled over at a meager 150,000 miles yesterday.

mnztr
Member
1 year 8 months ago
I do not see it. SAAB has a great defense business, it is close to their roots, much lower risk and much higher margin then the car business. If they were ever to come back to the market as a part of SAAB it will be with another strong partner like BMW or MB or one the Korean companies. Even VAG would be a great partner as they have platforms that can be used to build a great new SAAB without investing billions in development. I think BMW or VAG would be ideal. Maybe Mercedes also, or even Peugeot-Citroen. Citroen… Read more »
Martin T16s
Member
1 year 8 months ago

“I hope that SAAB Technologies owners sees the great possibilities in making truly HI-TECH cars, just like the others stuff in their advanced products portfolio”

Surely if they were going to see the above then would they not have done so long before now? I mean these “great possibilities” have been glaringly obvious for many years, even more so to SAABTtechnologies owners.

jond
Member
1 year 8 months ago
I can’t understand the estimate that it would take ten years for a model to become widely accepted. The JLR Evoque seems to have succeeded overnight. Surely it would be quite feasible for Saab AB to set up a motor vehicle design operation, which would use design skills gleaned from elsewhere in the group and incorporate other available motor industry technology that would be available from suppliers. Then, if and when they manage to come up with something that they think may be a real marketing possibility, they could set up a small production line (possibly parallel with other production… Read more »
phermansson
Member
1 year 8 months ago

Good question, whats stopping them now… enormous development investments which will take a huge amount of time… first of all they have to make a feasibility study to determine if they have the competence to build a car that can compete with the products that the other brands will launch in 10 years…

Building a brand new car on a brand new platform which will need to be developed from scratch will take a lot of time…

95saabowneruk
Member
1 year 8 months ago
I think you know a lot more about car production than me Tim, but you do tend to over egg things a little. You make it sound next too impossible for Saab to re-enter market. By your logic no one would ever enter any market because the advantages of existing businesses. One of the critical dynamics of capitalism is that existing companies cannot ‘own’ a market. New entrants are essential to prevent monopoly practices. The truth is you can catch up competitors quite quickly because the technology they are using is out there and often available from suppliers. As far… Read more »
Jesse Crandle
Member
1 year 8 months ago
I agree with 95saabowneruk. I’m not saying that it won’t cost a lot of money and take more dedication than we’ve seen to date, but I would like to point out a new fan favorite here at SaabsUnited, Tesla. Tesla wasn’t even selling cars 5 years ago and someone here mentioned last year they sold 40,000? Sounds like they broke that barrier to entry just fine. The issue is having a GOOD PRODUCT. Tesla has something they’re offering that everyone else isn’t, or at least marketing it like that, and in the end that’s what’s important. I also agree with… Read more »
Angelo V.
Member
1 year 8 months ago

I don’t think Tesla is profitable yet. In fact, I read that they don’t expect to be profitable until 2020 or later. I don’t know if that’s true or not—-but I do know that Tesla is getting a lot of help in the U.S. in the form of $7500.00 tax credits for people who buy one. Totally agree with you on touch screens. It’s more Star Trek nonsense and if you’re someone who keeps your car a long time, you’ll be hammered by repair costs down the road—-massive bills compared to a few switches going bad.

Juerg_U
Member
1 year 8 months ago

I totally disagree. Both of you probably use a Tablet and/or Smartphone. The Tesla touchscreen is iPad standard (just bigger) and not Ford. Not the touchscreen is the problem, the quality and handling and thats exactly what Tesla got right (with lots of other things).

Angelo V.
Member
1 year 8 months ago

Yes, and Smart Phones and I-Pads and other tablets with touch screens often have glitches with the screens—a shelf life. So you go out and buy a new one for a few hundred bucks. Why do I get the feeling that the cost for a stealer…ahh, I mean DEALER to replace such a malfunctioning screen would be far more than a few hundred bucks?

Juerg_U
Member
1 year 8 months ago

Might be, but with 8years of guarantee I don’t care

Angelo V.
Member
1 year 8 months ago

Do car manufacturers offer an 8 year guarantee on touch screens?

Juerg_U
Member
1 year 8 months ago

I had a look and you’re right, it is 8 years on battery and drive unit only, but anyway I take the risk 😉

Juerg_U
Member
1 year 8 months ago

Btw the guarantee is 4 years also not bad

phermansson
Member
1 year 8 months ago

You should try a bmw, no touch screens there! Buttons and tactile controls only! Works perfectly!

Juerg_U
Member
1 year 8 months ago

The problem with buttons is, they can’t be changed. With no buttons everything can be optimized and rearranged. E.g. new voice commands, could be easily implemented in an “old” Tesla, while with BMW you need to buy a new car if you want new “toys”. So a Tesla gets better with age, while a BMW just gets older and btw also buttons might break.

Angelo V.
Member
1 year 8 months ago

Right now, there are no old Teslas. Let’s give it a decade and then we’ll see how these cars age—IF they age. And we’ll see how pricey it is to “rearrange things.” And that’s just it—buttons and switches CAN be replace, and usually for not a lot of money. A malfunctioning touch screen? Get ready to go see the banker.

Juerg_U
Member
1 year 8 months ago
I remember a discussion with my dad 30 years ago. I got my first Saab 99 Turbo (a great car and the reason for my Saab love btw) I pimped the car with power windows (not a lot of cars had power windows at that time) and he said “is this a good idea? What do you do when they break?” They didn’t break and I had fun with them. Today it is the touchscreen. OK it could break, but with no moving parts and no chance of falling down the chances are rather small. On the other hand a… Read more »
phermansson
Member
1 year 8 months ago

Very good points!

phermansson
Member
1 year 8 months ago
You might be right, but from what I’ve understood by talking to people who are in the business, the available of suppliers who can offer state-of-the-art tech products is next to none. Most development of lighting systems and other high-end tech for cars are made in-house at the manufacturers and that tech is not shared to anyone. And the leap of going from where NEVS / SAAB is now to competing with laser-light technology which took BMW more than 8 years to develop is huge… And since audi, bmw and mercedes are not likely to share their tech and its… Read more »
Eugene
Member
1 year 8 months ago

Most of such technology was availalbe in the air & defence a decade ago. You “just” need to de-militarize it and apply to commercial production.

phermansson
Member
1 year 8 months ago

I know that, I worked with most of the new tech available on cars today when I was in the air force in 2000…

mnztr
Member
1 year 8 months ago

If I were Mahindra, I would go to Peugeot-Citroen to get some help, they do lack credibility in being able to build such a car from scratch. JLR was not gutted, it was a going concern and had a great deal of technology, platforms etc. If Mahindra stepped in instead of Muller, at that time, things would have been very different. What is left of SAAB at this point is really not a hell of a lot. It would have to be all rebuilt from scratch. A very big undertaking. About 1000x harder then when Muller took over.

Mailr
Member
1 year 8 months ago

Well, when Muller took over, the Phoenix platform wasn’t much of a selling point. Now it is. Also, a person as driven and independant as Muller was most likely an absolute necessity for a sale to take place at all.
My point is, a direct sale to Mahindra could never have happened.

Angelo V.
Member
1 year 8 months ago
I don’t know about that—-but I do know that GM might have held off selling to Mahindra because Mahindra actually has a lot of money and a little know-how. Muller had a little know-how but apparently no money. I think GM knew exactly what they were doing—EXACTLY. They pushed off the wind-down costs of Saab on someone else and got out from under a mess and even got paid for it. It was brilliant on GM’s part. It cost them a lot of money to wind down Pontiac, Saturn, Oldsmobile…but in the case of Saab, they dumped the division and… Read more »
hans h
Member
1 year 8 months ago

I think so too.
Gm did what GM had to do. But what GM did the years before were shameful. Not only for Saab, but also for Holden, Pontiac, Olds…They were even close to fail with Opel.
GM is/was a pitiful company.

Brian Hamilton
Member
1 year 8 months ago

I have thought for a long time that SAAB AB should take back their car division. That would really rattle the opposition.
Please let it happen!

RAnderson
Member
1 year 8 months ago
In an ideal world SAAB Defense would be the perfect technology organization to re-invent and resurrect their own automotive legacy. In the real world they know that in the 21st century trying to design, manufacture, and market a clean sheet of paper car would be nothing but a black hole sucking the capital out of a highly profitable organization to it’s destruction. Would love to see it happen, but it’s highly unlikely, merely a pipe-dream, imo. Similarly, Boeing, with tech expertise that certainly equals, and probably exceeds, that of Tesla and SAAB Defense combined, would be the perfect platform to… Read more »
hilmar
Member
1 year 8 months ago

I had the same dream weeks ago, it was just a joke, “some coffee money for Saab AB” 😉 Some aircraft-born cars again, it would be a great brand image. 🙂

AEROOTTAWA
Member
1 year 8 months ago

I hope whoever ends up owning SAAB cars will also look at collaboration with Koenigsegg. They are both 100% Swedish and at the cutting edge of automotive innovation. There is an interesting recent thread on Swadeology in which Christian von K. talks about the possibility of cutting Koenigsegg’s existing V8 in half to produce a light, fuel efficient V 4 capable of producing 450 hp. What could be more “Saabish” than that!.

Doug R.
Guest
1 year 8 months ago

If the estimated cost of 15 billion SEK is required to revitalize Saab, Mahindra isn’t financially able to do so.

The estimated value Of the Mahindra and Mahindra group is 16.9 billion. just saying… Yes they are successful,,, But will never risk it all on Saab.. Just aren’t that successful if those figure are accurate.

Angelo V.
Member
1 year 8 months ago

And Saab AB knows that. So are they weeding out a legitimate bidder because they might actually have interest in getting back into the car business? Or, are they stone-walling Mahindra so that once and for all, they could lay Saab automobiles to rest—-kill off Saab forever as a car marque and bury it.

Jimmy
Member
1 year 8 months ago

1 SEK = 0.12 USD
15 billion SEK = $1.84 billion USD
Mahindra & Mahindra 2013 net income: $835 million USD
Saab AB 2013 net income: $91 million USD

In other words Mahindra makes 9x as much money as Saab AB and can easily afford to spend 15 billion SEK.

phermansson
Member
1 year 8 months ago

You shouldn’t think of SAAB AB as the owner, it wouldn’t be SAAB AB who takes over but rather INVESTOR which is the group which owns SAAB AB, SEB and all the other companies controlled by the Wallenberg family. And they are a lot bigger than SAAB AB…

Doug R.
Guest
1 year 8 months ago

Jimmy if your conversion is correct Mahindra could go for it. However there is more monies needed other then R&D…. The big one is marketing, advertising,,, operations, etc.. Before making one cent or being profitable.

So the total risk maybe is 2 to 3 times that. I believe it could easily be 4 to 5 billion. Which would be close to 30 percent of Mahindra and Mahindra’s net worth.

Mailr
Member
1 year 8 months ago

You are mixing SEK and USD. 15 billion SEK is about 2 years profit for Mahindra, so even a total failure is unlikely to risk all of Mahindra. Also, if Dongfeng is in on half of the development cost, the risk decreases significantly, both in money spent and the risk of total failure.

So, the bottom line is, Mahindra is absolute capable of doing this.

mnztr
Member
1 year 8 months ago

Yes I agree, plus it would not be a dead loss, all the R&D is easily usable in their automotive group. I don’t think it really matters to them if SAAB makes money anytime soon. It will be a source of tech and a halo brand.

Eleven
Member
1 year 8 months ago
Nice thought, absolutely love the idea of Saab going back to its origins and starting something fresh and inspirational again. Shame it’s not something any of us could ever hold out for. Faced with the harsh reality of choosing a new car that couldn’t be a Saab, it soon became apparent that it was a pretty baron landscape (if you have budget restrictions of course). I couldn’t bring myself to choose one of the all to common marques, so have purchased a Lexus GS300h F Sport. Whist I use the Lexus most days, when I want pure driving pleasure the… Read more »
Angelo V.
Member
1 year 8 months ago

Nothing wrong with that GS though—-they are superb cars.

phermansson
Member
1 year 8 months ago

But the Tech in the GS is old compared to what the germans are making… and the engine is severely out of date..

Eleven
Member
1 year 8 months ago
Having owned at least 25 German marques in the past, I can honestly say that the Lexus easily compares. The dynamic handling or top speed my not quite match in the GS but then again, how often can we drive at 155mph on perfect tracks – I sure can’t. It’s immaculately crafted with quality materials, supremely comfortable, silent in the city, low on company car tax, less polluting than it’s diesel rivals and highly individual, oh and super reliable. Having to move away from a Saab as my main daily driver was difficult, the Lexus manages to offer just a… Read more »
Angelo V.
Member
1 year 8 months ago
I think the tech angle is way overblown. I don’t need to be “Johnny Nifty” with the newest gadgets on the block. Give me reliability, competence, refinement—-and Lexus easily bests the Germans (and the Americans) in that department. Having a top speed a little higher or half a second faster acceleration doesn’t translate to anything meaningful in real world driving—-and I don’t bring my cars to a track either, so those “advantages” aren’t really important to me. I know people who have owned Lexus after owning the European and American luxury brands—-and they’ll never go back. Less time in the… Read more »
AEROOTTAWA
Member
1 year 8 months ago

+1 Angelo. Unless you are the kind of person who trades their car in every 3 years all these gadgets are just a huge repair bill waiting to happen. Pity the people (like me) who like to buy and hold.

phermansson
Member
1 year 8 months ago

Lexus make nice cars, I spent a few days in a GS Executive which was a lot of joy, I almost bought one. But the BMW’s have come a long way further than Lexus has in terms of onboard tech and fuel-efficiency. Now that Lexus has found a way to put a turbo into their cars, their engines might become more appealing =)

Angelo V.
Member
1 year 8 months ago
I think it’s a matter of priorities and also perhaps how long you intend to keep your car. If you’re someone who leases and will have a new car in 36 months, reliability isn’t of utmost importance. You’re never out of warranty. If you’re someone who keeps a car 8 or 10 years—or longer—-you want a bulletproof car that won’t nickle and dime you to death—-and one that will start when you turn the key, with no drama and no warning lights that flash like a casino when the car gets a few miles on the clock or turns 8… Read more »
3cyl
Member
1 year 8 months ago

I suspect that SAAB Technologies will find this project about as appealing as BMW did, but it would be great if that is not the case.

mnztr
Member
1 year 8 months ago

BMW found the project appealing, it was the lack of cash they found to be unappealing.

3cyl
Member
1 year 8 months ago

It is interesting how successful companies let finances cloud their emotions.

MeanSabean
Member
1 year 8 months ago

Will he be the man to make the decision to take over NEVS?

Mark
Member
1 year 8 months ago

I’d certainly like Saab AB to own Saab again but I wouldn’t be averse to Mahindra owning around 30%. Mahindra could have access to the Phonenix platform and produce non Saab vehicles using it. This would give Saab not only a good cash influx but provide a valuable testbed for the Phoenix platform prior to Saab actually using it itself on new models.

Angelo V.
Member
1 year 8 months ago

Maybe they could come up with some sort of arrangement. At first blush, I don’t know why Mahindra would want to be a bank for Saab AB. They want to own the car company, not fund it for someone else. But on the other hand, if they could get fresh technology from this sort of agreement for their own cars and trucks, it might be cost effective for them.

Paul Willis
Member
1 year 8 months ago
We all need to stop thinking of this in terms of our own perspectives as Saabophiles and look at it from a pure business standpoint. What is really left of Saab at this point that would justify anyone committing a ton of capital? The production facilities are half shuttered, and even if re-opened cannot supply the volumes really needed by the new owners to eventually make a go of it. The 9-3 is way too long in the tooth to resuscitate, and the Phoenix platform isn’t yet ready and is itself already a handful of years old. There is the… Read more »
Paul Willis
Member
1 year 8 months ago
I think we all need to take a step back and look at this from a purely business-case standpoint. It’s too easy to distort the realities of the situation by looking at it from our Saabophile perspectives. What is really left of Saab now? The production facilities are idle and cannot produce the volumes eventually needed for the new venture to be a success. The workforce is essentially gone, the dealer network is non-existent, the 9-3 is way too long in the tooth to mess with, the Phoenix platform needs more development work, resale values are in the toilet, and… Read more »
Patrik H
Member
1 year 8 months ago

I would love to see Saab Automobile AB back under Saab AB. It’s original and best home. But this is more pie-in-the-sky than ANY of NEVS greatest dreams were. Sad.

Paul Willis
Member
1 year 8 months ago
I think we all need to take a step back and look at this from a purely business-case standpoint. It’s too easy to distort the realities of the situation by looking at it from our Saabophile perspectives. What is really left of Saab now? The production facilities are idle and cannot produce the volumes eventually needed for the new venture to be a success. The workforce is essentially gone, the dealer network is non-existent, the 9-3 is way too long in the tooth to mess with, the Phoenix platform needs more development work, resale values are in the toilet, and… Read more »
Paul Willis
Member
1 year 8 months ago
I think we all need to take a step back and look at this from a purely business-case standpoint. It’s too easy to distort the realities of the situation by looking at it from our Saabophile perspectives. What is really left of Saab now? The production facilities are idle and cannot produce the volumes eventually needed for the new venture to be a success. The workforce is essentially gone, the dealer network is non-existent, the 9-3 is way too long in the tooth to mess with, the Phoenix platform needs more development work, resale values are in the toilet, and… Read more »
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