NEVS stands once again on its own feet

As no one had submitted objections to the plans from NEVS to pay their creditors the district court in Vänersborg has approved the application from NEVS to leave reorganization. From now on NEVS has 60 days to pay their creditors in part, the second part will be paid within six months.

We expect that NEVS will publish a press release today. we will keep you informed.

What are the consequences of this step?

First, NEVS has no protection any more from the Enforcement Authority, So NEVS has 60 days to get the money to make this first payment, and I don’t think that any creditor will grant them one more hour.

Second, NEVS can take its own decisions and so it will be much easier for them to sign any contract with anybody.

As of today there seems to be three parties with different interests in NEVS. One wants to be a majority owner, a second one wants to develop cars based on the phoenix platform and the last one wants to build cars in Trollhättan. Which of those contracts will come true nobody knows, but as they don’t exclude each other any combination of the three is possible.

The Saabfestival in June is getting more and more a “must be there” appointment.


Press release from NEVS

Nevs has exited the reorganization

The District Court of Vänersborg has today, April 15, 2015 decided that the reorganization of Nevs shall cease as the purpose of the reorganization is fulfilled.

The reorganization of Nevs was initiated August 29, 2014 for a period of three months. The reorganization was prolonged for a period of three months at two occasions, December 11, 2014 and March 11, 2015.

On March 23, 2015 the District Court of Vänersborg approved the composition proposal by Nevs after a vote where 98,2 percent of the creditors representing 98,6 percent of the amount of the debt was in favor for the composition. On April 14 The District Court’s approval of the composition became legally valid.

Link to the decision, (in Swedish only)


I haven’t found no new information on the text of de decision of the district court, but maybe my Swedish isn’t as good. 🙁

aslak
Member
1 year 5 months ago

I really hope that this could be the starting point of some good news!

Kimberly
Member
1 year 5 months ago

It isn’t. In 59 days we will read about NEVS going under. SAAB as we knew it is long dead – right now it is in zombie status – undead because it doesn’t realize it’s dead. 🙁

saaburban
Member
1 year 5 months ago
Maybe Pinifarina will buy NEVS and together with funds from M&M star the development of a new generation of cars worthy to carry the Saab brand. The Swedish auto tech cluster would merge with Italian design cluster with a steady flow of M&M capital. The indian-Swedish-Italian auto group would carry itself high in the auto journalism front, merging arctic quality, Italian lines and Indian up-n-coming youth. While Volvo flirts with totalitarian governments, Saab is much better in the hands of free companies from the largest democracy in the world. And rest assure that Saab Defence, will be keen to use… Read more »
Angelo V.
Member
1 year 5 months ago

Wouldn’t this be nice! Some really fun, great cars could come out of this idea.

hans h
Member
1 year 5 months ago

As I read it the three parts are Mahindra, Dongfeng and “someone close” (Volvo??)
If the third party is Volvo, what then about Geely? Does Geely and Dongfeng cooperate somewhere or are they “enemies”?

Please let it be someone who can do to Saab what Tata did to Jaguar-LandRover.
Fingers, arms, legs and eyes crossed

Angelo V.
Member
1 year 5 months ago
Deals need to get done immediately, payments made pronto, not in 59 days and 23 hours. This has dragged on long enough now and NEVS has exhausted their options and frankly, they’ve exhausted most of us. It’s time for them to let go of their silly electric dreams and sign this over to someone else with a real plan to build cars people want to buy and can afford. It’s truly unfortunate that it’s not the same party that wants to be a majority owner, build cars on the Phoenix platform and build cars in Trollhättan. In a sane and… Read more »
hughw
Member
1 year 5 months ago

Waiting for the press release…….but as usual NEVS is behind the times. If they’ve accomplished anything worthwhile during reorganization other than the deal with the creditors, why wasn’t there a press release already prepared and ready to be released the minute reorganization ended? And that press release should EXPLICITLY name names and detail the results of any negotiations with SAAB AB regarding the Saab name…..I’m hoping that I’m wrong….But this all looks like NEVS doing business as usual.

saabboy1
Member
1 year 5 months ago

And the third party is “Koenigsegg” Am I dreaming or what??!!

zippy
Member
1 year 5 months ago

Wouldnt that be lovely?! 🙂

TurboLover
Member
1 year 5 months ago

The third party is close (Europe) and lacks production capacity. I’m only aware of one such brand. BMW.

Kimberly
Member
1 year 5 months ago

BMW seems to be producing enough cars to keep up with demand… why do you say they lack production capacity? They’ve been expanding their model line and recently started a project to expand production by 100K units at their South Carolina factory to handle a new SUV. I doubt that the plant which produced 30K Saabs/yr will cut it for them. 🙂

Doug R.
Guest
1 year 5 months ago
I think many here are expecting to much… The future business for nevs may have nothing to do with Saab but something different altogether. Qoros may be the company who wants to build cars at the plant… Others may want the Phoenix etc. (License Tech).. Another words Nevs is free to do whatever they want and go in any direction the choose. Again everyone here needs to be reminded as of now The Saab name is forever gone…. There has not been one ounce of info to the contrary. It wouldn’t surprise me one bit in 60 days the whole… Read more »
Doug R.
Guest
1 year 5 months ago

Oh and i could careless what Nevs does unless the SAAB BRAND is apart of it.

Angelo V.
Member
1 year 5 months ago

AMEN. The only thing I want NEVS to do with the Saab brand is relinquish it to someone who’s competent and get out of the way.

SaabKen
Member
1 year 5 months ago

+99/900/9000/9-3/9-5 !

Emmanuel
Member
1 year 5 months ago

Keep up good work!

jond
Member
1 year 5 months ago

I’m confused. This all sounds a little like one of those weather forecasts where the forecasters don’t know what will happen so they cover all the possibilities – rain, sun, snow etc. (I believe that it runs to about five lines.) Talk about ‘inscrutable’!

Angelo V.
Member
1 year 5 months ago

Don’t worry Jond, it will all be cleared up when NEVS issues that press release later today, right?

Angelo V.
Member
1 year 5 months ago
Speak of the devils, here it is: Wednesday, April 15, 2015 Nevs has exited the reorganization The District Court of Vänersborg has today, April 15, 2015 decided that the reorganization of Nevs shall cease as the purpose of the reorganization is fulfilled. The reorganization of Nevs was initiated August 29, 2014 for a period of three months. The reorganization was prolonged for a period of three months at two occasions, December 11, 2014 and March 11, 2015. On March 23, 2015 the District Court of Vänersborg approved the composition proposal by Nevs after a vote where 98,2 percent of the… Read more »
theSandySaab
Member
1 year 5 months ago

I have no clue what to read or believe from this, but agree this time with our angel.
Nevertheless, me too, keeping every lim crossed for some kind of vehicle production in Trollhättan. Anything really, under any flag, platform, propulsion, name or brand… The facilities are supposed to be very good, there are people wanting to work and taxes to be paid…
Still, it must be possible to figure out what manufacturer that is “near and need production capacity”, no…???

saabtec
Member
1 year 5 months ago

It’s been a long road since 2011. I’m still going strong as a tech. Had my best year ever last year. That’s a bold statement after 29yrs. working on Saabs stateside. I’ve been a passenger on this roller coaster ride and am used to the ups, downs, spins and halts. I just would like something concrete to come out once and for all. Today is good news, but it has left us with a multi-pronged fork in the road. I’ll just have to sit back and wait for now.

Hakan
Member
1 year 5 months ago
Cheer up fellow saabers. I chose to take a more optimistic stance on the news today. At least this is an end of one of the agonies hitting us who are saab fans. What happen today will actually demand NEVS to finally come up with the “cards on the table”, as we phrase it in Swedish. I hope that it also means that we will see a new majority owner of NEVS/saabcar. By the way, I am new as registered member on this site. Though I have been a long time reader of this blog. But, today I decided to… Read more »
Avelik
Member
1 year 5 months ago

Welcome, Hakan.

Hakan
Member
1 year 5 months ago

Thank you Avelik

hans h
Member
1 year 5 months ago

Welcome!
And keep on beeing optimistic. Pessimism is just a drab and has never made anyone happy. 🙂

Hakan
Member
1 year 5 months ago

Thank you Hans.
I agree, its nicer to stay optimistic. Hopefully it will be easier to remain positive in some 60 days, or wait a minute,.. maybe now within 50 days! 🙂

Romac
Member
1 year 5 months ago

I seem to remember there was another party that (thought they) had rights to build Phoenix? Could they be involved in this mélange?

We’ve all done a lot of “Wait and see”, but I hope no-one was holding their breath!

Angelo V.
Member
1 year 5 months ago

LOL. Yes Romac, if anyone was holding their breath, they turned a deep shade of indigo.

Joe
Guest
1 year 5 months ago

They were probably too busy being infantile and “crossing their fingers” and any other ridiculous appendage to satisfy their childish superstitions….

Patrik H
Member
1 year 5 months ago

Romac, if I am not mistaken, wasn’t it Spyker and Youngman? They were going to make a crossover vehicle or something?

Avelik
Member
1 year 5 months ago

Youngman has non-exclusive rights for some modules of the platform, but it is unlikely they will ever make something with it.

Angelo V.
Member
1 year 5 months ago

When Ms. Pang takes over, anything can and will happen, and I’d like to be there.

Stefan G
Guest
1 year 5 months ago

Lol Angelo. You are still hot @ miss pangpang! I must admit though that she is quite nice to rest eyes on in a industry full of stiff, grey old men!

SaabKen
Member
1 year 5 months ago

I think Angelo is feeling kinda stiff himself (with Ms. Pang) …….. LOL

Avelik
Member
1 year 5 months ago

Keep your fingers crossed for this to happen.

Angelo V.
Member
1 year 5 months ago

Sort of like the Beach Boys song, Rachel and I can have “fun, fun, fun” till her Daddy takes the T-Bird away! Or as the case might be, rich daddy takes the Lotus or bus away.

mnztr
Member
1 year 5 months ago

The whole purpose of this process was to hold off creditors until the sale could get close to completion. NEVS really has ZERO intention of paying its creditors, it is only willing to negotiate for the new buyer to assume those obligations. If there is no deal I bet the creditors are SOL and the whole mess will be liquidated in 60 days. This also puts some pressure on the potential buyers, buy it or its all gone.

Angelo V.
Member
1 year 5 months ago
I made a similar comment many months ago—in my opinion, none of this is about an honest effort to get the ship righted, pay creditors and try to move things in the right direction or create the conditions for a viable sale. I think it’s been clear for a long time now that this is really about someone trying to save their skin—-hold onto as much money as possible through whatever strategy works—-get out with part of his shirt left, at least a sleeve or collar still attached. I don’t think I’m alone in saying I have no trust toward… Read more »
SaabKen
Member
1 year 5 months ago

Let’s hope there is *no* “next time”, and that M&M plucks Saab Cars out of its past orbits of failures and into a new frontier …… a bold new frontier where no Saabers have gone before [groan] 😀

Joe
Guest
1 year 5 months ago

Yes.

Dagen Runt
Member
1 year 5 months ago

This is my understanding as well.

Kimberly
Member
1 year 5 months ago
I think it’s pretty clear NEVS never had any real intention of producing Saabs. If they had they would have done so ages ago. What did the 9-3 need to remain competitive? It needed a replacement for the V6 they lost to GM, a refresh of the nav/entertainment system, and slight improvements in interior materials (namely the rubberized coating). It really didn’t need a whole lot more, and they could have otherwise sold the 9-3 as it was. Instead, they kept production off while they focused on EV development, and let’s face it: EVs have a problem when it comes… Read more »
100%Saab
Member
1 year 5 months ago

Well!

hans h
Member
1 year 5 months ago

Don’t be so pessimistic.
Saab is no zombie! Come on!

Kimberly
Member
1 year 5 months ago

I don’t know about you but I prefer living in reality. 😉

hans h
Member
1 year 5 months ago

If we are supposed to use a medicinal term, I would prefer “induced coma”, like the sort you get when you’ve had a severe head trauma.
Not dead, not zombie. Just sedated, awating recovery.

Are there zombies in your reality?? 😉

Kimberly
Member
1 year 5 months ago

In the UNIX administration world, there is a concept of “zombie” processes; basically processes which died but garbage collection failed to remove from the process table.

And, in the insect and arachnid world, zombies are very real, caused by parasitic infections.

So, the answer to your question is yes. 🙂

kochje
Member
1 year 5 months ago

The number of reactions increases again; the Saab community gets enthusiastic.
Let us cross our fingers, again, and hope for the best.
If someone needs a tranquilizer; just go to the next Pharmacy 🙂

Joe
Guest
1 year 5 months ago

You just keep “crossing your fingers”, while NEVS raises their middle finger to everyone else!

kochje
Member
1 year 5 months ago

Might be but I prefer to keep my fingers crossed then to hold my breath 🙂

Avelik
Member
1 year 5 months ago

No one has brought this up here so far, so I will. According to Michel Annink at Saabblog (I haven’t seen this info anywhere else), Nevs is to appoint Stefan Tilk, a Volvo Buses executive, as a new member of their Board.

Stefan G
Guest
1 year 5 months ago
Could Koenigsegg be the mysterious secret manufacturer that is having problems producing enough cars? They have announced that they will also start building somewhat more regular cars and that the way forward for that segment is by going electric. The factory would be perfect for this! Same country, same language spoken and close geographic location to the rest of their business. Also a very modern but yet a quite empty production line that they could utilize for at least a couple of years before NEVS would start producing anything there. Teaming up with them would also support NEVS on their… Read more »
Angelo V.
Member
1 year 5 months ago

Don’t they need to get the brand back first before bringing it back to any modicum of glory?

SaabKen
Member
1 year 5 months ago

I think you’re thinking of Spyker, Angelo ?

This is interesting article. Read the last sentences. I doubt Koenigsegg the company is desperate for additional production capacity any time soon !

http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1097164_koenigsegg-boss-hints-at-four-door-model

SaabKen
Member
1 year 5 months ago

Listen to what Christian says starting at 8:16 mark:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sr1jylROsqQ

Stefan G
Guest
1 year 5 months ago

True, but even if they got it, the way back is quite long!

TonymacUK
Member
1 year 5 months ago

Pity what happened to MG didn`t happen here – at least the factory would be producing something and some jobs would have been created. MG are not producing many cars, and what they are producing are from KD kits from China, but they are recruiting more dealers and the cars are designed and engineered by British designers at Longbridge. There does seem to be a future for MG, which is more than I can say for NEVS/SAAB.

Angelo V.
Member
1 year 5 months ago

What’s the status of the 100 9-3s they said they were about to build?

kochje
Member
1 year 5 months ago

seem to have been sold. one to Holland and 99 sold in Sweden; at least that is what I have heard.

Angelo V.
Member
1 year 5 months ago
If that’s true, it’s wonderful news. I’m not convinced that we’ve seen the last 9-3 roll off that line. It’s old, and we’ve heard expensive to build, yada, yada, yada. But it’s ready to roll, ready to sell—and markets starved for Saab would still buy that car if they could price it right. Add in the wagon again and the convertible, which is a timeless classic—-and it could hold them for a short time while new vehicles are rushed to development/production. It will keep the place running and re-establish the brand with a real Swedish Saab too—a good way to… Read more »
theSandySaab
Member
1 year 5 months ago

I’d love a brand new vert. But were they even manufactured in Trollhattan? Don’t think so…

kochje
Member
1 year 5 months ago

I think the 9-3’s convertibles were while also the convertible made especially for the celebration of one year independence (9-3 Independence Edition)was produced in Trollhattan.
If indeed the convertible would be built again I do sign immediately the order form.

rune
Member
1 year 5 months ago

Yes, Spyker moved the production of the cab home.

Cab picture from the factory December 2012

theSandySaab
Member
1 year 5 months ago

Oh yes, now I recall. Remember the independence vert coming off the line…

Dagen Runt
Member
1 year 5 months ago

The cars are supposed to go to one of the bigger creditors of Nevs, a credit company called Svea, if memory serves me. What Svea does with them is another story. A few months ago the earlier batch of unsold 9-3s were web auctioned in Sweden and were sold at about 25% off the asking price.

TonymacUK
Member
1 year 5 months ago

As a wagon owner, and an admirer of the convertible, which is virtually a classic car here in the UK, I`m with you Angelo.

zippy
Member
1 year 5 months ago

The convertibles are amazing, especially in the lovely weather we have had this past few days. The 9-3 convertible was actually the best selling premium convertible in the UK a few years ago and thats spectacular considering the competition.

Paul Willis
Member
1 year 5 months ago
mnztr: I agree with your assessment. There is likely no intent for the current owner to make the debt payment. All that has really happened is that the creditors have temporarily ceased their actions to liquidate what is left of NEVS. If NEVS can work out a deal with an OEM before the first installment is due, then there is a chance that this could work out. But that is a big “if” and everything hinges on that. That is only 60 days away, which is a blink of an eye, really. It will take a signed, formal, final agreement… Read more »
Joe
Guest
1 year 5 months ago

Yes! You’ve got it figured out, Paul Willis!

Doug R.
Guest
1 year 5 months ago

I conquer Paul,,, and even if someone buys in like I have said many times it may not have one thing to do with Saab.

I suspect the house of cards comes tumbling down in sixty days.

I think if someone was buying in and the Saab brand was going forward the new investor would want this done.. common sense.

Doug R.
Guest
1 year 5 months ago

I conquer Paul,,,

I suspect the house of cards comes tumbling down in sixty days.

I think if someone was buying in and the Saab brand was going forward the new investor would want this done.. common sense.

Angelo V.
Member
1 year 5 months ago
Doug: If that prediction of yours comes to fruition—and NEVS/Saab Cars are all done in two months, looking back—-what was the lynch pin that drove the failure? I know a good many people are going to point to eastern China and blame this on Qingdao pulling out of a rickety “agreement” to buy cars from Jiang. The logic there is that if Qingdo would have bought the fleet of cars, it would have given NEVS the income to keep operations going and get a good start. Frankly, I laugh at that notion. I think it’s absurd. The amount of cars… Read more »
Angelo V.
Member
1 year 5 months ago

Oh, and yes—I realize Qingdao’s involvement was more than just buying a fleet of cars—but I’m referring to what people have said here—that Qingdao not purchasing cars led to the collapse. And even if you allow for the fact that they were supposedly something like a 20% owner—-removing them from the equation should not have led to bankruptcy. This is just stupid already—this entire NEVS episode.

Avelik
Member
1 year 5 months ago
No one has ever said that Qingdao not purchasing cars has led to the collapse. What led to the collapse was Qingdao not offering a certain amount of money they had promised to offer. This money was not tied to the delivery of some cars. It was tied to a number of requirements Nevs had to fulfill and which they fulfilled including at the cost of additional expences not included in their business plan. So Qingdao not offering the promised money broke the balance and led to the crisis. It may seem as a very small thing, but sometimes even… Read more »
Angelo V.
Member
1 year 5 months ago

Avelik: I do recall people writing posts that were hostile toward Qingdao not buying the cars and tying that to NEVS’ troubles. But addressing your other point—-if Qingdao reneged on legal agreements, is it possible to sue the province or individuals responsible? Or was the agreement shaky and ambiguous, as to allow for them do do exactly what they did with no recourse?

Avelik
Member
1 year 5 months ago
There are a lot of posts around here that are based on people’s misconceiving of the situation. The delivery of the car fleet was part of the deal, but only part of it and not the most important one. The deal was for Nevs to resume production before the end of 2013, which they did, and Qingdao had to offer the money. The delivery of the cars was to happen later in 2014 and by the time the Qingdao’s part of the agreement wasn’t fulfilled. So the car delivery is a minor detail. This has been made quite clear many… Read more »
Patrik H
Member
1 year 5 months ago
I honestly do not think NEVS ever had the capability–or the intention–to run Saab. From the shady, original bankruptcy estate proceedings to their half-assed website to the futile act of redesigning the car’s seats and trunk emblem to their cryptic press releases and not least, their grossly miscalculated, underfunded, pie-in-the-sky business plan….these guys are amateurs. I see this entire “NEVS” thing as a smokescreen. KJJ got the Saab factory and assets and naming rights for pennies. The goal never was to make an electric Saab on a TWELVE year old platform. What kind of joke was that? The goal was… Read more »
Angelo V.
Member
1 year 5 months ago
Patrik: You’re so on target in my opinion, there’s virtually nothing else to add—except to delve further into something: I am in total agreement with you about how and why NEVS/KJJ got into this circus. I saw it as a scam when it was happening—-but it really does seem to be problematic for him now. On a typical scam, there’s a clear path to grab money from another party. We see that in the U.S. when “start ups” in sectors like green energy build a house of cards with promises of revolutionary solar panels or windmills, hydroelectric, etc—“renewable energy” and… Read more »
Joe
Guest
1 year 5 months ago

How do you say “Victor Muller” in Chinese?

Avelik
Member
1 year 5 months ago

维克托·穆勒

roger
Member
1 year 5 months ago
Are You serious??? So You both think for real that KJJ put in Billions in a scam to run away with more? It’s ridiculous! I understand that you both are dissapointed about what happened till now but this scam you write about is almost like saying that NASA never landed on the moon. What happened with Qingdao is also no secret anymore. They got a huge natural disaster with flooding early last year and the politicians that signed the agreement with NEVS got sacked because of their bad handling of this disaster. Their replacements haven’t fullfilled the payment of the… Read more »
100%Saab
Member
1 year 5 months ago

Thank you for the history. But, I don’t want bad weather in China to determine what kind of new car I buy or if I can get repair parts.

Angelo V.
Member
1 year 5 months ago
Well, and that’s really the point 100% Saab. Roger seems to deny any chance at all that there was shady business involved in a consortium no one had ever heard of taking over Saab cars—-getting the factory, the naming rights, etc. Truly, at the last minute, after rumors about BMW, Mahindra, Youngman (who actually do build vehicles) and others—-at the eleventh hour, we’re introduced to NEVS and suddenly they’re in control. We know now that if it wasn’t a corrupt decision, at the very least it was a laughably stupid one. I don’t want to hear that “There was no… Read more »
Avelik
Member
1 year 5 months ago
You are confusing things that have no connection at all. Nevs were introduced in the last minute? They were in the negotiations from the very start, this is documented. You know, there were around 16 parties interested in the assets. Do you know all of them? No. Does this mean they didn’t exist? No. All the great BMW, Mahindra and so on did not bid. That is documented. They didn’t see enough value for them. This is the Receivers fault, you say, the Receivers should’ve made the deal sweet enough, you say. How exactly were they supposed to make the… Read more »
Angelo V.
Member
1 year 5 months ago
Right, no chance other prospective bidders were thrown off the trail and the rules were written so that NEVS was the only key that fit the lock. You believe that? LMFAO. Mahindra was told that certain aspects of the sale they wanted weren’t part of it—-then miraculously, after they dropped out, these same aspects were there for NEVS. But no foul play involved, just a coincidence. Yesiree. On an unrelated topic, our heads have also been filled with the “It’s impossible for Saab to sell entry level cars, can’t be done.” Well, again, if there’s a Saab again, somebody better… Read more »
roger
Member
1 year 5 months ago
But please Angelo! Did you have a really bad day? “but if the loss of an at best 20% “partner” led to the stop of production and basically, a complete collapse—-then the people who put this together are idiots.” This is only ignorance! You must know that Qingdao was supposed to fund the production with 2 Billion swedish crowns(about US $233300000). They have only paid 650 milj swedish crowns (about US $76000000). The missing 1350000000 skr (about US $157478478) stopped the production. Is that so hard to understand? I think You often write well thought out posts but this time… Read more »
Angelo V.
Member
1 year 5 months ago

Roger: I got the information from saabcars . com, NEVS website. To be accurate, NEVS claims a 22% holding by Qingdao, not 20%. Big whoop. If your business collapses because a 22% investor or partner pulls out and you can’t make due with 78% until you find a way to make up the 22%, it tells me your business plan or objective was no damn good to begin with. Hint, hint.

Angelo V.
Member
1 year 5 months ago

And if your point is that Qingdao was only a 22% owner but was going to do the yeoman’s share of spending to get things up and running—it’s an even bigger indictment of the Receivers for agreeing to something so uncertain and shaky. It’s an even bigger indictment of NEVS for making promises based on a hollow shell that could collapse that quickly. Was there anything binding? Was there/is there any recourse to go after Qingdao for reneging on an agreement? If the answer is no, someone didn’t do their homework.

Avelik
Member
1 year 5 months ago
So 22% is not a big deal, you say? What percent of your body is your leg taking? Around as much, right? If someone takes away your leg now, will you be able to run? Because Nevs were taken a leg the moment they were starting to run. Qingdao made them resume production. Do you realize what this means? When you resume production your costs go up. Seriously up. Qingdao made them resume production not according to their plan and promised to support them with money. And then didn’t support them with money. This is like convincing someone to jump… Read more »
roger
Member
1 year 5 months ago

Angelo. It doesn’t matter if Qingdao has a 22% owners share or 99%. They did not fullfill the agreement of funding 2000000000 swedish crowns. That is what stopped the production. Not some scam to runaway with money. Not the incompetence of the people working for NEVS nor an alien attack on Stallbacka. Please google for info about how much money KJJ had put in this from the start to now. He’s taking a HUGE risk with his money. Maybe he is stupid to even try but this is better than what should be if NEVS didn’t took over…

Angelo V.
Member
1 year 5 months ago
Guys: 1) Yes, 22% can be a big deal. But it shouldn’t be a deal breaker—it shouldn’t take down a company if everything else is well managed. Can a four cylinder engine run on 3 cylinders? Yes it can. That’s a loss of 25% but it can run, until repairs are made. Roger: The point is that if the 22% owner was carrying so much of the load that them stepping aside brings down the company—-it was a poorly conceived organization, a house of granite built on a foundation of Styrofoam. Weak. Things should have been more legally binding then—with… Read more »
Avelik
Member
1 year 5 months ago

It can be a deal breaker in the “right” moment. You can run of 3 cylinders, but what happens if you loose one of your cylinders during race?
Now you engage in unsubstantiated speculations again. What does “more legally binding” mean? What makes you think there were any problems with the “legal binding”? If Nevs were to sue Qingdao this could take years and it wouldn’t matter at all. So there is nothing “apparent” in your assumption there was anything wrong with the contract.

Avelik
Member
1 year 5 months ago
What aspects where “miraculously” available for Nevs and not for Mahindra? There was not such thing. They were negotiating for the exactly same thing. Absolutely nothing more was there in this for Nevs. Not a thing. You are fantasizing again. And for your unrelated topic: it has been explained a million times why the current 9-3 is expensive. It has a lot of parts. A lot. That’s how it was engineered. You can’t change that. And it is built in low volume, which means every part of it is expensive, which makes the whole expensive. This has been explained so… Read more »
Patrik H
Member
1 year 5 months ago

Well, if it was explained a million times then why in the world did NEVS decide to build the thing? If they were ‘serious’ about electric Saabs, they wouldn’t have dabbled with the 9-3, it’s just that simple.

Avelik
Member
1 year 5 months ago

Nevs was building the thing because that’s what Qingdao wanted (also something explained a million times).

3cyl
Member
1 year 5 months ago

Arelik, the solution to high parts prices is for suppliers to sell to NEVS at say a 35% discount. This might enable NEVS to profitably produce and sell the elusive “priced right” SAAB. If this scheme was properly explained to suppliers, they would realize that they would be making 15% more than if they settled for the customary 50 cents on the dollar.

roger
Member
1 year 5 months ago

If you could foretell everything it would be easy to run a company…

Angelo V.
Member
1 year 5 months ago

Roger: The most successful companies in the world are run by people who foretell the important things correctly. That’s business. The failures are run into the ground by people who jump on an electric bandwagon at exactly the wrong time—-dogs that are wagged by the tail, sort of like NEVS.

hughw
Member
1 year 5 months ago
I’m not going to get into the discussion about whether or not the 9-3 could have been profitable if sold at higher volumes at a reduced price, or whether the departure of Qingdao brought down NEVS….And I agree that “If you could foretell everything it would be easy to run a company.” But it’s more than obvious to many of us that NEVS had no clue on how to run a company and had no ability to look into the future except through whatever fairy-tale-rose-colored glasses they were using…And that was apparent very early on: 1. unrealistic plans to bring… Read more »
Avelik
Member
1 year 5 months ago
I’m a little sleepy so I’m not sure I get your point correctly, 3cyl. By “50 cents on the dollar” you mean the debt reduction, right? If so, then there are still some problems with your proposition. Firstly, it wouldn’t change anything for the suppliers in the current situation. Nevs’ problems originate from the lack of funding, not from the lack of profit. Nevs didn’t really have the chance to ramp up production seriously to even speak of some serious sales that would generate at least some kind of profit for the company. So even if the price of the… Read more »
Avelik
Member
1 year 5 months ago
Hugh, it would be nice at least to know what Nevs’ plans actually were before criticizing them. They never intended to ship batteries from Sweden and then back to China. The batteries for the Chinese market were to be installed locally. As for Tim, when his profile turned into “Archive” the last comment from it said something in the lines of him expecting a bigger family. I think we can guess what this means and he preferred to take a step back from blogging or substitute SAAB blogging with a less stressful one. But it is none of our business… Read more »
Avelik
Member
1 year 5 months ago

Batteries to Sweden, not from, sorry.

Kimberly
Member
1 year 5 months ago
> 2. An almost complete failure to communicate with a very loyal customer base and dealer network. “almost?” It was a total epic failure. Many of us were saying “shut up and take our money” wanting to buy a new 9-3. Had they restarted the production line and started shipping cars to the dealers that still had their doors open at the time, they would be doing pretty well by now and would have at least one new model out. 3. A complete failure to communicate with the motoring press. Yes. 4. A laughable website. That doesn’t even begin to… Read more »
Avelik
Member
1 year 5 months ago

Kimberly, you obviously don’t know very well how things work in the auto industry if you think Nevs could start shipping cars around and be doing so well to have a new model out. There are objective facts that make the 9-3 a tough sell, which have been discussed more than enough. And adding features to cars is not like sticking posters on a wall, neither a completely new model could’ve been developed by now.
And none of the people who has driven the EV prototype has referred to it as a joke, quite the opposite actually.

Angelo V.
Member
1 year 5 months ago
Avelik: This was also explained many times over and acknowledged by TIm: Conditions changed AFTER the Receives succeeded in weeding Mahindra out of the process. Mahindra decided not to put a bid in, based on what they were being told in early 2012. Once some time passed, a deadline was enforced—-making it impossible for them and others to start over with bidding again—-some of the conditions they were facing were dropped, but NEVS was in place with papers to bid on Saab, which they did (“the only ones”) and the rest is history. I can say the same thing: If… Read more »
Avelik
Member
1 year 5 months ago
Would you tell me what were these conditions that were dropped after Mahindra was “scared away”? How much time passed after Mahindra left the negotiations? What happened during this time in the negotiations? And speaking of acknowledging the potential of corruption, I do acknowledge the potential. There is always potential for something like that in such a bid, exactly the way there is potential for erupting in a dormant volcano. The potential is always there. But likelihood? I don’t see a single thing that makes it likely. So if someone is choosing to see something, it’s you. You are choosing… Read more »
Angelo V.
Member
1 year 5 months ago
Well obviously, halfway around the world, I have no evidence. And I’ve never said that it’s a certainty that there was “corruption” in the process. I think what I have done is make an educated guess (a hypothesis if you will) that the process was friendly to NEVS and that they were given a push—someone helped them steer into the ownership of Saab. Can I prove that? No. And so I understand that without proof, you can view my assertions as being hollow. It’s almost impossible to prove a negative (that there WASN’T corruption) and I’ve never asked you to… Read more »
roger
Member
1 year 5 months ago

“the potential corruption”… Is that FACT for you? What on earth do you base this conviction that Nevs is corrupt on? Mahindra decided not to bid in 2012. Fact is that no one else than Nevs did made a bid for the bankrupt’s estate. Maybe Nevs wasn’t the ideal solution but it was the only solution back then.

Avelik
Member
1 year 5 months ago
First of all, there is no decision on the name problem yet, so it’s early for you to complain how Mahindra didn’t get it. You would be fooling yourself to think Nevs got the name just like that. They had to negotiate a lot and according to Tim they had to “make some expensive promises” (his words, as far as remember them). So they weren’t granted the name easily. And it is perfectly understandable if SAAB AB have more strict requirements now after the first time things didn’t go well. As for your “scam theory”, you haven’t just made “an… Read more »
Angelo V.
Member
1 year 5 months ago
My criticism of NEVS is mostly based on a horrific performance as owners of Saab. They’re hands down, the worst owner Saab has ever had and it’s not even close. Are you going to dispute that? Are you going to dispute that they’ve done a poor job of handling the company in most aspects? Roger: Regarding the process, my accusations of foul play have been directed more toward the courts and less toward NEVS. Sure, NEVS is a part of it, but they were enabled. I do believe their “commitment” (LMAO) to be green, electric and in keeping with the… Read more »
Avelik
Member
1 year 5 months ago
Don’t run in other directions, Angelo. Your criticism is not based on “horrific performance” it is largely based on the bunch of little stories you have come up with. Now I am discussing these accusations you have made for this “scam”, not your every criticism, so don’t tell me: “My criticism is righteous, so I can say whatever rubbish about Nevs and it will be ok”. It is not ok. So don’t mix things up. Don’t change the subject. Focus on this case, not on others. So do you think it is ok to create a bad name for someone… Read more »
Angelo V.
Member
1 year 5 months ago

Well Avelik, maybe…just maybe…neighbor James really is torturing squirrels in his basement. Sometimes circumstantial evidence does expose wrongdoing upon closer evaluation. It if looks like a duck, quacks like a duck and walks like a duck…it’s NEVS. But hey, they’re once again standing on their own two feet, so maybe all will end well and we’ll see a new 9-5 Sport Combi at the Beijing Auto Show in two years, at the Detroit or NY auto show in 4.

roger
Member
1 year 5 months ago
Angelo, you wrote: “My criticism of NEVS is mostly based on a horrific performance as owners of Saab. They’re hands down, the worst owner Saab has ever had and it’s not even close.” Scania/Investor sold Saab to GM who tried to wind down the company but then sold a crippled rest of a company to Spyker who had absolutely no money at all and runned it to bancruptcy in less than two years. Isn’t that worse than NEVS that in fact got out of a chapter 11-like scenario. Victor Muller never got through with that. You’re to dissapointed to see… Read more »
Avelik
Member
1 year 5 months ago

Maybe he is. But given the facts it does not seem likely. There are no real circumstantial evidences in this case. Maybe the 100 years old grandma from across the street is torturing squirrels too. Maybe. This “maybe” is not enough to justify talking such things in address of people. Don’t you think?

Angelo V.
Member
1 year 5 months ago
Roger: No offense toward you because you’re just the latest in a long line of people who keep saying this—-but I’m really tired of hearing about how NEVS strayed from their plan to build ICE cars because that’s what Qingdao wanted. If Qingdao told KJJ to jump off a bridge, would he do that too? What is this? Qingdao is Charles Manson and KJJ is one of his girls? This is absurd already. How is it that the tail wagged the dog—-the dog did a total about face—-then was hung out to dry by the tail anyway. In other words,… Read more »
Avelik
Member
1 year 5 months ago

“Wanted” means these were Qingdao’s conditions for signing a contract under which they were to deliver some financial funds, a.k.a. money (yep, there was a contract, legally bidding one).

hughw
Member
1 year 5 months ago
Alelik, Perhaps I’m wrong about the battery shipments but you can’t dispute that NEVS hadn’t a clue on how to proceed with design, with production, with marketing, with finance, and with public relations…..pathetic, all the way round….remember the face-lifted 9-3 we were promised…..did you every even see a concept sketch…all smoke and mirrors. And I certainly wasn’t delving into Tim’s personal life…I said he drank the Cool-Aid and assured us all was alright in the land of Oz when there wasn’t even a wizard behind the curtain….and he didn’t take a break from blogging…he left SU but is still blogging… Read more »
Angelo V.
Member
1 year 5 months ago
Certainly Hugh, if NEVS had better business acumen, they would have been the ones driving the narrative, not a bunch of outsiders like us posting comments on a blog. They would have been giving press interviews, getting out in front of the story—using a real website to write the story their way, like every other company does. Sometimes I think they hired Avelik to give their side of the story here—-but I dismissed that theory as he’s clearly smarter, better spoken and more prepared than NEVS owners at communicating a position. Doug said it best once and I piggybacked on… Read more »
Patrik H
Member
1 year 5 months ago

Well said. No business should ever be in the position where outsiders on a blog are driving their corporate narrative. That’s not a company that I would trust to build me a website. Or a car.

Avelik
Member
1 year 5 months ago
I have acknowledged the problems of Nevs’ communication. But it is naïve to think they didn’t have a clue about all these things. The people who work in Nevs haven’t been gathered from the street. We didn’t really had the chance to see what they are really capable of in terms of design, engineering and production, because they have been under funded since the beginning of 2014 which means they had worked under more or less normal conditions for less than an year and a half, which is a very short time. I believe there is a facelift, it just… Read more »
Patrik H
Member
1 year 5 months ago
I think a lot is to be said by the cloak of invisibility that KJJ has worn since he purchased Saab three years ago. Correct me if I am wrong, but I am struggling to recall ANYTHING written here or elsewhere that has featured his face or his words. The owner of the company! One has to wonder why this might be the case. The NEVS choir will shout “oh, because he’s so busy running things!” Running things? The only thing running around here is the carcass of a once-proud car maker….and it’s running straight into the ground. I just… Read more »
Angelo V.
Member
1 year 5 months ago

I think I’ve seen him in one photo—-it was run here and it’s on NEVS website. If I recall, it’s a head shot. I don’t remember reading any interviews with him or hearing his words/seeing his words. Pathetic. It actually makes me angry, how badly this was botched.

Avelik
Member
1 year 5 months ago
Reaching to SAAB’ old customers was not the way to success for Nevs. SAAB had very limited customer base. The last years before the bankruptcy sales only declined. So to say that there was a bunch of people waiting for Nevs to buy cars and make them rich is wrong. Yes, they should have reached to the old SAAB customers in many ways, but expecting them to sell the 9-3 in all previous markets is very unrealistic. Besides, you are making a mistake many before did and for some reason are still doing. You set totally unrealistic time frames. You… Read more »
Angelo V.
Member
1 year 5 months ago

It’s interesting the way you phrase that—-the decision to produce the 9-3 was “taken” in October or November 2012… Decision wasn’t made, it was taken. Or should that have been, “The directive to produce the 9-3 was obeyed.”

Patrik H
Member
1 year 5 months ago
But that isn’t what happened. Pre-production began a few months before actual production. The whole “pre-production” thing was to “get the factory line going again.” It took longer to ink the final contracts. I apologize for my 16 months comment. I thought I had seen that number thrown around here multiple times. Still….11 months for “pre-production” of a car that yes, was, much more “ready” than you care to admit. Reaching to Saab’s old customer base AND beyond it were both absolutely necessary for success. Who else is going to purchase a 12 year old car for approximately $42k USD… Read more »
Avelik
Member
1 year 5 months ago
You think 11 months is too much for a “ready” car? Let’s look at similar situations in the industry for comparison. Let’s take Fisker for example. Fisker was bought out of bankruptcy by Wanxiang a year ago. The first thing they said they will do is to resume production of the Karma. One year later Karma is still not produced. This is not because the guys there are sitting on their hands. It just takes a lot of time. Well, SAAB did have a small customer base because they were selling unreasonably priced cars well past their expiration date and… Read more »
Patrik H
Member
1 year 5 months ago
If you’re correct, what I don’t understand is why they resurrected the car in the first place? The cards were stacked against the NEVS 9-3 no matter how you slice it, price it, and sell it. Unless Qindao wanted about 100,000 of them, I don’t see how it ever could have made sense. And it certainly doesn’t make sense to try to attempt to turn it into an electric car. Ever. Whoever decided that was a good idea was grossly misinformed and likely singlehandedly killed this so-called NEVS company. If they wanted practice with batteries, they should have bought some… Read more »
Avelik
Member
1 year 5 months ago

They wanted to resurrect the 9-3 to create some cash flow for the company while the Phoenix is being worked on. They couldn’t afford to just sit and develop the Phoenix for several years with no other operations to create at least some kind of income. That was the whole thing.

Angelo V.
Member
1 year 5 months ago
Patrik: Sadly, resurrecting the old 9-3 and exporting it back to some traditional Saab markets made more business sense than producing a new electric Saab to be built in Sweden and exported for sale in China. Honestly—-if they had gone full force on the 9-3—-wagon, convertible and sedan—-as quickly as possible and as cheap as possible—-they would have sold more of those then they ever would have sold electric cars in China—-at least within the first 5-10 years. NEVS took over in mid-2012. How are electric cars selling in China today? Assuming NEVS “did things right” (whatever that means in… Read more »
Patrik H
Member
1 year 5 months ago

Agreed.

Avelik
Member
1 year 5 months ago
Angelo, what is better – to sell 50 000 cars losing money on each, or sell 5000 making money on every car? What is better – to have miniscule profit or enormous loses? If they went to all previous markets with the 9-3’s full model line selling it as cheap as possible they would have sold some number of cars, but this would have cost them huge money, they would be losing money like hell. It would’ve been like giving cars away. On the other hand, in China they would’ve sold much less cars as an absolute number, but there… Read more »
Angelo V.
Member
1 year 5 months ago
Restarting the business, I’d rather lose money selling 50,000 cars and have a profitable future—-than make money selling 5000 cars and end up out of business in a few years. Saab’s idea of selling cars for sixty thousand dollars will never result in them staying in business. Re-establishing the brand by getting new cars on the road, in peoples hands—-even at a loss—-is a way to jump start interest and let the world know there is/was still a car company named Saab, in business. You have to absorb losses at the beginning sometimes—-in many businesses. Eventually, sooner rather than later,… Read more »
Kimberly
Member
1 year 5 months ago
> I’d rather lose money selling 50,000 cars and have a profitable future—-than make money selling 5000 cars and end up out of business in a few years. Agreed – providing that capital provides for execution of that plan. In order to charge BMW pricing, the 9-3 did need a refresh for at least interior finish (GM chose cheap industrial coatings (the rubberized paint), which probably saved only $7.00 per car compared to one that would withstand long-term wear. That’s a relatively easy fix, although some industrial coatings require different tooling and processes. it also needed an improved nav system… Read more »
Avelik
Member
1 year 5 months ago

Kimberly, do you realize how much more cars they would need to improve the scale of economics to be profitable without jacking the price up? SAAB has quite limited production capacity.

Kimberly
Member
1 year 5 months ago
About 90,000 units per year would make Saab extremely profitable per past analysts’ articles. That isn’t a whole lot of vehicles for a real car manufacturer to produce. Had they adjusted MSRP to reflect the actual sale price and/or made the Aero trim level a true premium car, they could have wowwed reviewers, they’d have stood a fair shake for people who only compare numbers and specs on paper, and would be doing very well by now. Didn’t someone else in here say the factory is capable of 190K units/year? That doesn’t seem particularly limited given that they had the… Read more »
Avelik
Member
1 year 5 months ago
90 000 making them extremely profitable? Wouldn’t say that. In Muller times they talked about 120 000 being break even point. They would need seriously more then that to be extremely profitable. And that was during Muller time, at Muller time prices. The situation for Nevs is quite different. They are limited to one model which could be hardly made desirable. They would never be able to sell 90 000 of it (which by it self would not be enough) even if they had cut the price seriously, and if they had cut the price seriously, there would be no… Read more »
Patrik H
Member
1 year 5 months ago

Kimberly, while completely nongermane to the thread, you bring up an interesting piece of Saab trivia that always confused me. Why, in 2010 and 2011, did the 9-3 have just one petrol engine? Linear 210 hp, Aero 210 hp. That was a huge mistake, meanwhile, Saab was loading the 2.8T V6 into the 9-5 and 9-4x Aeros.

Does anybody know why the 2.8T V6 was pulled from the 9-3 Aero after 2009?

Kimberly
Member
1 year 5 months ago

It’s been said by others that GM refused to supply the V6 for use in the 9-3 any longer. Who knows what the real story is…

Spite over pet projects, jealousy and other superficial stuff killing products, trim levels and brands is nothing new at GM.

Avelik
Member
1 year 5 months ago
Angelo, they would sell at loss at the beginning in any case. But the losses you propose are unimaginable, it is totally unreasonable. You are proposing for them to sell every car at enormous loss all over the world. You are virtually telling them to give away cars all over the globe. Do you imagine how much this would cost? You want them to cut the price by at least a third to reach your idea of “right price” and support a global distribution organization. Have you even thought what money we are talking about here? Money doesn’t grow on… Read more »
Angelo V.
Member
1 year 5 months ago
No, not give cars away, but sell them close to a break-even point in the first couple years. Avelik—-their prices are inflated and ridiculous. I like Invicta watches—I’m a fan. They are stylish and often use watch movements sourced from TMI (Seiko) and Ronda (Swiss). Their case designs are big and bold—interesting complications, fun to wear. They aren’t on the level of fine luxury wristwatches and in fact, from a quality standpoint, they aren’t on par with better Seikos. They’re probably equivalent to a couple German E-Bay brands I really like, Tauchmeister/Aeromatic. Now, Invicta tells us a “Suggested Retail Price”… Read more »
Kimberly
Member
1 year 5 months ago
That’s along the lines of what I’ve been saying all along but I think you came up with a great analogy. Especially Invicta – excellent watches but not Rolexes, despite their “list price” being equivalent to many low end Rolex models. They are certainly better than Seiko mechanical watches – which are actually quite good. SAAB made darn good cars with fantastic ergonomics – but performance and interior materials certainly do not match BMW or even Lexus, nor recent Audi model refreshes, and yet MSRP and positioning was against BMW and Audi. They never sold for MSRP since the 900NG.… Read more »
Avelik
Member
1 year 5 months ago
What makes you think the prices are inflated? What are you basing yourself on? They were inflated because you think the cars weren’t worth that much? SAAB prices weren’t inflated. The average profit margin for SAAB was 5000 USD (info coming from Swade). That’s not a lot. It is ridiculous to think SAAB had “inflated” prices selling around 100 000 units per year. It is super hard to run a company selling this number of cars with this profit margin (“impossible” would be a more suiting word, actually). The “right price” you are asking from Nevs can’t be accomplished just… Read more »
Kimberly
Member
1 year 5 months ago

Look at their percieved and purported competition, who offered far better specs and interior materials for similar MSRPs. Look at the entry-level BMW 3-series, which in base trim was far better than the 9-3 Aero. The MSRP was way too high without improving materials – which could have easily been accomplished by partnering with Hirsch, who somehow managed to offer aftermarket interiors and performance packages with very limited production numbers.

Angelo V.
Member
1 year 5 months ago

Yes, inflated relative to what less money will buy from other manufacturers. Seems to be a dastardly Catch 22 going on here, Avelik. They can’t sell Saabs at reasonable prices because they’re not producing enough Saabs. They’ll never produce enough Saabs then, because they’re charging too much for them. Wow, what a sinister paradox.

Avelik
Member
1 year 5 months ago

Angelo, you are looking at it from the angle customer perception which has nothing to do with the economics of SAAB as a company. To be perceived as overpriced is not the same as being objectively overpriced. Yes, you can call their situation a paradox, but what you propose is not a realistic way out of this paradox.
Kimberly, Hirsch is not known for their low prices, that’s how they manage to offer things. Besides, to produce aftermarket accessories is not the same as making cars.

Angelo V.
Member
1 year 5 months ago
Avelik: Keep in mind, my proposal is to bleed money temporarily, to reestablish the brand. For one thing, I’m not convinced that Swade’s profit margin number is correct. That seems impossibly low to me. Be that as it may—there’s very little R&D involved in bringing the 9-3 line back to market—some, yes. I understand there are asinine pedestrian standards now in place that they must meet and that’s costly. And the U.S. has their own share of asinine regulatory hoops. But compared to new models/new platforms, this is relatively small stuff, small investments. You’re selling these cars for 2-3 years… Read more »
Avelik
Member
1 year 5 months ago
Of course you are proposing to bleed money temporally, but the thing is that what you are proposing is not going to reestablish the brand. In any case they will be able to sell a very limited number of 9-3s and for this they will have to support global distribution network, pass certification procedures, which are not cheap (they differ in different markets and even in different states in US) etc. They will have to sustain a very complex system just for a few cars, which will be bought by a few people. This is like building a dam and… Read more »
Angelo V.
Member
1 year 5 months ago

Well, your dose of reality is quite depressing. Regarding Swades time at Saab—-that still doesn’t mean he has an accurate number. A very small fraction of the Saab workforce would have privy to the books before doctoring them.

Swade
Member
1 year 4 months ago
“Regarding Swades time at Saab—-that still doesn’t mean he has an accurate number. A very small fraction of the Saab workforce would have privy to the books before doctoring them.” The $5000 figure is not dead-on to the cent, of course, but it’s an accurate figure according to the source I spoke to extensively for the story, who definitely *was* in a position to know. You have a right to your own opinion. You don’t have a right to your own truth. The absence of information from NEVS has truly been a disaster, but that doesn’t mean that if you… Read more »
Angelo V.
Member
1 year 4 months ago

Swade: I agree with your last paragraph—but regarding the $5000.00 figure, do you know where that ranks among other manufacturers PPV? I might be wrong, but I would think that’s a rather low profit for the price point of the cars. Isn’t it possible that the numbers are manipulated to arrive at that figure—-but it’s less than the actual mark-up/profit per vehicle?

Swade
Member
1 year 4 months ago
Do I know where that ranks? No. I imagine it’s somewhat more than a Toyota Corolla and somewhat less than a Porsche Panamera. The figure came from a source I spoke to extensively for the story, a source inside Saab who, as I said, was in a position to know. It’s a very close ballpark figure (not dead-on to the cent, as I mentioned in my previous comment). Is it possible that accountant manipulate numbers? Is the pope a Catholic? Of course it is, but I trust my source and in the terms of the story I wrote, an quite… Read more »
Angelo V.
Member
1 year 4 months ago
But again, I didn’t say your figure was definitely not accurate—I just questioned it. And I do think we speculate and then create a narrative to make our thoughts plausible. Guilty as charged. But Swade, it seems as though EVERYONE here does that, not just me—and not just the NEVS naysayers. In fact, the glee and optimism—-the hundreds of comments propping up NEVS in the early days—were exactly what you describe—people inventing a reality based on what they WANTED to happen. We heard all sorts of “facts” about how NEVS was loaded with money (i.e. “These guys have deep pockets.”)… Read more »
Swade
Member
1 year 4 months ago
“I didn’t say your figure was definitely not accurate—I just questioned it.” You either accept it as accurate, or you question it. You can’t accept it as accurate AND question it’s accuracy with comments like…. “I’m not convinced that Swade’s profit margin number is correct. That seems impossibly low to me. ” And…. “that still doesn’t mean he has an accurate number.” Again, feel free to theorise all you want. You’re entitled to your opinions, wishes, etc. I’ve theorised about what I think Saab should do countless times. It’s fun and it makes for good discussion. But don’t make the… Read more »
Angelo V.
Member
1 year 4 months ago

Your contributions and Aveliks—are what makes it worth coming here and reading comments. I respect both of you (and the others posting). For the record, as I recall, your theories about NEVS turned out to be pretty accurate! You had a more polite way of communicating what you thought of them than I did—but in many ways, though our means were different and our paths were different, we arrived in the same place and at this point at least, unfortunately seem to be correct.

Paul Willis
Member
1 year 5 months ago
I agree with Hugh, a big part of the problem has been the lack of transparency from NEVS all along. Did they have a reasonable plan that could have worked if executed properly?–it’s almost impossible to really know with the information that has been available. Its like NEVS was a car in one of those social science experiments where it is painted red on one side and black on the other, causes a crash, and then eye-witnesses try to explain what happened!! Some say the red car swerved, some say it was the black car, and yet others thought it… Read more »
Angelo V.
Member
1 year 5 months ago
Paul: You’re right that as we look forward, it’s that reality about the 60 days and new investor. Without that, this is going to be over. We’ve had the luxury (if you could call it that) of at least dreaming of a future—of a new owner who isn’t incompetent—of possible new models. We’ve had the luxury to debate what a Saab should be, how much it should cost, where it should be sold, etc. Well you’re right—focusing on what happens two months from now is the whole ball of wax. Because if no deal is made, this is really the… Read more »
Bravada from GMI
Member
1 year 5 months ago

I am not quite sure where this “somebody close” thing came from, but to me the obvious solution to keep the factory busy if it’s Mahindra who buys and funds the development of new Saabs is to make Ssangyongs there.

And no, the lack of transparency is not a problem, it is a private company. Creditors got what they wanted and so did the court, unless you are a creditor, the company has no obligation to you to divulge details of their activity and negotiations and it is NOT a problem.

Angelo V.
Member
1 year 5 months ago
I don’t recall anyone saying the company is obligated to divulge details of their activity—-speaking for myself, I said that they SHOULD have done that and communicated effectively with Saab owners and the media, to keep interest in Saab cars alive while they transitioned to whatever they were planning to do. I don’t know of a single car manufacturer who doesn’t do what I suggested. Tesla was talking non-stop in the years leading up to the production of their first Model S. Elio has a big social media presence and is giving blow-by-blow details of testing engines, appealing to states… Read more »
jond
Member
1 year 5 months ago
Somehow I think that we are missing the big picture here, mainly because we are ignorant of the relevant factors. When KJJ acquired Saab Cars I did a very little online research about the commercial background and came to the conclusion that his business interests could not have grown so quickly unless they were in effect fully funded by Chinese Government money. And why might China be interested in acquiring for vast sums of money car companies in the West? The obvious reason is technology transfer. And it has been very successful. It’s taken about a decade to acquire and… Read more »
Angelo V.
Member
1 year 5 months ago
Jond: I’m surprised more people didn’t jump in and reply to this. I’ve been watching your comment the last couple days. I get what you’re saying, but based on where things stand now, do you think this has gone according to plan (i.e. NEVS a commercial disaster, but still on track to provide electric vehicle capability for the Chinese)? Or did something go terribly wrong, and not only was NEVS an unmitigated commercial disaster with the stench of death hanging in the air—-but also, they failed in their mission to transfer relevant technology to China? It doesn’t seem possible that… Read more »
Paul Willis
Member
1 year 5 months ago
I don’t expect a privately-held firm to reveal all of its secrets, and it is certainly not required to report out like a publicly-held firm. But, when the road has been as rocky as it has been for NEVS, with the brand’s value declining minute-by-minute and potential customers drifting away second-by-second, and with supposed business partners issuing conflicting statements, you had better be clear and consistent in communicating a vision and plan for success that has some meat on it. Otherwise, folks will just see smoke and mirrors and your reputation and standing in the market will take a major… Read more »
George Goodwin
Member
1 year 5 months ago
I’ve read nearly all 143 posts here on this thread. Now I have gone to Nevs and asked them to tell me when a SAAB gas engine car will be ready for me to buy. Here is the reply. Dear George, Thank you for contacting us. National Electric Vehicle Sweden’s aim is to become a front-runner in the automotive industry, with focus on electric vehicles. As the company suffered financing problems during 2014, cost reduction actions were taken, such as stop of production and a decrease of the number of employees and consultants. Nevs also applied for and was granted… Read more »
Angelo V.
Member
1 year 5 months ago

LMAO. LOL. Thanks for the lunch time amusement. Hey, at least they answered…ummm…well, they didn’t answer. At least they replied!

Patrik H
Member
1 year 5 months ago

Front-runner in the automotive industry. Does it get any better than that?! What automotive industry are they talking about? The one on Pluto?

zippy
Member
1 year 5 months ago

I’d say Uranus. Or the person who replied from Nevs.

Angelo V.
Member
1 year 5 months ago

They couldn’t be a front runner in the automotive industry my 10 year old operates—-which is Hot Wheels and Matchbox cars on his bedroom floor (that I trip over).

hughw
Member
1 year 5 months ago

Love the part about follow news on their website…..I’ll do that from now on.

Patrik H
Member
1 year 5 months ago

+1 LOL

Kimberly
Member
1 year 4 months ago
> National Electric Vehicle Sweden’s aim is to become a front-runner in the automotive industry, with focus on electric vehicles. Which will not happen at the rate at which they’ve been burning their capital…. And SAAB’s appeal is small but relatively powerful turbocharged engines in a mid-range luxury car that handles. If they were serious about their goals and had a clue about funding they’d have had a complete business plan put together and the funding to back it if they do not plan to put product out until the EV is ready (and remember a pure EV is a… Read more »
roger
Member
1 year 5 months ago

Newspapers are reporting about Mahindra and Pininfarina again. Is that good or bad for the ongoing negotiations between Mahindra and Nevs? Do someone here have more info?

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/industry/auto/news/cars/mahindra-mahindra-in-talks-to-acquire-italian-auto-design-firm-pininfarina-spa/articleshow/46951539.cms

Jordan
Member
1 year 5 months ago

I don’t have any more info.. but, I said previously that I think that more than anything, this could be a sign that Mahindra has moved on from Nevs..

Why else would they be so willing to admit that they are moving forward with a technical development, but not a new majority owner?

I am guessing the Mahindra ship has sailed.

Angelo V.
Member
1 year 5 months ago

And Jordan, if that’s true, it’s probably the end of Saab cars.

Jordan
Member
1 year 5 months ago

I just read off of saabblog (who knows how credible they are.. Some of their articles seem pretty out there) that Mahindra is to make a bid on Pininfarina by the 29th..

2T
Member
1 year 5 months ago
Wow, and people were complaining there was no action on this board anymore…… You can blame NEVS for many many things, but you have to hand it to them, they sure can split a crowd. But regardless of wether NEVS was the only bidder for Saab or if things were “arranged” so that they were, one had to admit their management of a car manufacturing company was at least amateuristic. I agree that being let down by one of your sources of funding is a major blow, but I also agree that a decent businessplan shouldn’t have put it’s entire… Read more »
Angelo V.
Member
1 year 5 months ago
2T: Regarding reaching out to the Saab fan base: My point is “How would it have hurt?” When you reach out to fans of your product, you’re not only reinforcing their decision to buy your product—-and prepping them to buy again—-but you’re also creating an agent that might turn others on to your product too. When Saturn started out, they were excellent at cultivating their owner loyalty. At first, all of their cars were built in Spring Hill, TN, USA. They actually had a couple annual barbeques there, inviting owners to drive their Saturns to Spring Hill Tennessee for the… Read more »
Hakan
Member
1 year 5 months ago

Angelo, When it comes to view NEVS as a sly intruder, my opinion is more in line with Aveliks than yours. But I am totally with you when it comes to how NEVS have failed to in a proper way reach out to us fans. Well, during some occasions (saab festivals, etc) NEVS actually showed up, as I recall it. But still, NEVS could. with a small effort, have made much better use of us fans than they actually have done so far.

Angelo V.
Member
1 year 5 months ago

Not sure about sly—-just an intruder. I’ll ask: When was NEVS established (what month/year did they get a license to operate the business)? 2011? 2012? And they were chosen to own Saab first quarter or early second quarter, 2012? Interesting.

2T
Member
1 year 5 months ago
Angelo : i’m not sure exactly what NEVS bought but it wasn’t a “car company”. Some remaining assets from a former and bankrupt one perhaps. I don’t think it looked anything like a car company by the time GM and especially Victor Muller were done with it. Very regretfully, but undeniably. Concerning the network keep in mind that after the bankruptcy, the sole remaining partner for them was Saab Parts -now Orio- with no ties to NEVS. I can tell you from regular contact with them that they were, and still are, as much in the dark on the whole… Read more »
Angelo V.
Member
1 year 5 months ago
2T: It was a modern car factory, an established brand name known in most parts of the world and an old platform that they could rejuvenate to build and sell cars—-the venerable 9-3. To be sure, the assets they bought were fragmented—-but the previous owner was building the 9-3 in that factory and selling that car in global markets less than a year before NEVS came in. I know they had to find new suppliers to build the 9-3 again, which they did. Let’s put it this way—-they started with most of the elements of a full car company. It… Read more »
2T
Member
1 year 5 months ago
I’m not sure I share your definition of an operating car company. By the time Muller got his hands on it, the client base was reduced by more than half in the two years GM messed with its future. Residual values had collapsed to virtual zero. The company missed 3-4 crucial years in development with no 9-4X, no 9-5NG and a 9-3 that couldn’t compete here in Europe due to poor CO2 levels, dated trims and equipment and high prices. By the time Muller took it to court, they hadn’t produced a car in 8 months…. Hardly my definition an… Read more »
Angelo V.
Member
1 year 5 months ago

2T: I said it WASN’T an operating company. But it was still a valuable asset and not far from having built and sold cars.

zippy
Member
1 year 5 months ago
All this is just so sad. I was SO depressed back in Dec 2011 when the curtain fell on the final scene of this Nordic Saga and I shall hang on to my 08 9-3 2.0T until he breathes his final breath. I found a link on line that had a lot of test drives of Saab’s from the 1980s and a fully loaded 9000 cost £28000 in 1987 which was as much as a Jag XJ and a Merc 300E. The press just LOVED Saab back then. Everyone, including myself, gave GM a hard time back in 2009-10 for… Read more »
roger
Member
1 year 5 months ago
zippy
Member
1 year 5 months ago

Good god, Palin. P A D I A N!! Bad zippy. 🙂 Thanks for the link Roger so I can drool. 🙂

Angelo V.
Member
1 year 5 months ago
Yes, you’re right, NEVS wants out with as much money as it can keep. That’s the goal of NEVS owner in my opinion. I think he probably is “smart enough to know that he isn’t smart enough” to accomplish what he foolishly thought he could do back in 2012. At some point in this process—-not soon enough—-he clued in that he and NEVS were in way over their head. Maybe to him, it seemed like a good idea at the time (never seemed like a good idea to me, building electric cars in Sweden for export to sell in China,… Read more »
3cyl
Member
1 year 5 months ago
Zippy, a telling sign was that GM would have preferred to shut SAAB down rather than sell. The potential proceeds from a sale were probably less than the value of intellectual property that would have been at risk in the hands of a viable buyer, and the proceeds from a not so viable buyer probably were not worth the trouble. It always seemed that they sold to VM more because it would have been difficult to justify not doing so rather than beacuse they had confidence in his business plan. The way things went, they probably wished they had just… Read more »
Angelo V.
Member
1 year 5 months ago

Also 3cyl, it’s not free to wind down/shut down. It’s expensive. GM avoided that and actually got paid for off-loading Saab to Muller.

2T
Member
1 year 5 months ago
I agree. I think once GM realised the cost of shutting it down (the so-called orderly wind down), they went for the cheaper option of off-loading, whilst ring-fencing the intellectual property in such a way that Spyker didn’t stand a chance in hell to make it (since it was obvious Spyker needed external funding and that was made virtually impossible by GM hurdles built into the agreement). Spyker tried to fight it in court but GM was smart enough to put it all black-on-white and VM blind enough to sign the whole lot (probably without reading between the lines). I… Read more »
3cyl
Member
1 year 5 months ago

GM had their own problems to deal with. They didn’t need the distraction of dealing with an underfunded entity that was destined to fail. Not worth the ongoing distraction, legal costs etc.. Better to sell the assets to entities who would use them for something other than building SAABs. Ironically, that may be where things end up after all.

2T
Member
1 year 5 months ago

Well that’s a bit easy. And exactly how did that unit become underfunded or destined to fail, if not by GM’s own doing ????

3cyl
Member
1 year 5 months ago

I was referring to Mueller’s lack of adequate capital.

Angelo V.
Member
1 year 5 months ago

He had adequate capital waiting to be invested from Russia. But apparently, “insiders” claimed it was “that awful Rooskie underworld money” and they let Vic die on the vine. I wonder if pieces were already being moved into place back then to roll the red carpet out for NEVS?

3cyl
Member
1 year 5 months ago

It was known before the sale that there were certain investors GM would not be amenable to. VM either underestimated how much investment it would take to finance his plan, or he hoped GM would relax its comfort level with his potential money sources after the fact. GM wasn’t going to be more altruistic just because he was dying on the vine especially since they preferred to close SAAB in the first place. I don’t need to remind you, however, that GM was happy to be on the receiving end of some altruism when they needed it.

Angelo V.
Member
1 year 5 months ago

Was it GM or the EU who opposed the Rooskie?

hughw
Member
1 year 5 months ago

i believe the EIB approved the loan, but not GM

100%Saab
Member
1 year 5 months ago

It was the US Government who owned GM at the time.

zippy
Member
1 year 5 months ago

3cyl, then we would have never seen the NG9-5. 🙁

Mitch
Member
1 year 5 months ago
Joe
Guest
1 year 5 months ago

But failure is impossible…given all of the folks “crossing their fingers”!

Angelo V.
Member
1 year 5 months ago

Crossing our fingers, toes—even crossing our legs—-has gotten us nowhere. What about a mass hunger strike until Saab AB lets Mahindra use the name?

Joe
Guest
1 year 5 months ago

NEVS hopes the creditors also have everything “crossed”. It will be harder to run after them to collect their money in 58 days…

Angelo V.
Member
1 year 5 months ago

Since NEVS is standing again on their own feet—-it begs the question, do they have two feet or four paws?

Romac
Member
1 year 4 months ago

Angelo V: I knew someone who had a dog like that – it was forever standing on it’s own feet (paws), which caused it to trip itself up 😀 . In a big bouncy dog that’s comical. But it’s not funny when a supposedly professional business organisation does it! Especially with our precious Saabs.

BTW: IIRC one of the “essentials” that M&M were required to do as part of the deal was buy the “Saab Parts” company. This requirement was dropped for NEVS.

Avelik
Member
1 year 4 months ago

You don’t remember correctly, Romac. The requirement to buy SAAB Parts was there for everyone who negotiated and then was dropped for everyone who negotiated. After that interested parties were invited to continue the negotiations, including Mahindra. Tim had a huge article about this including translations of legal documents.

Angelo V.
Member
1 year 4 months ago

Avelik: My recollection is that the story changed on this. Originally, the Receivers stood firm on that requirement and that sent M&M packing—-might have also weeded others out. Then they enforced the bid deadline but dropped that requirement—-not giving a reasonable lead time for bidders to jump back in, hence, NEVS was left standing. This was one of the things I was referencing the other day. The path was cleared for NEVS in slimy ways, in my opinion.

Angelo V.
Member
1 year 4 months ago

They were green after all.

Avelik
Member
1 year 4 months ago
Mahindra was back and participated normally in the negotiations, like others did. It “jumped back in”. It is documented. Don’t you remember the article? There was nothing that allowed only Nevs to stay in the negotiations and stopped others from participating. The deadline might have stopped someone who was only then deciding to enter the negotiations or didn’t participate in the previous negotiations in any meaningful way. But it didn’t stop Mahindra. They were there, presented plans, participated in meetings. The change in the requirements didn’t affect them in any way. Do you honestly believe that everyone who’s “green” is… Read more »
Angelo V.
Member
1 year 4 months ago
No Avelik, but it’s a FACT—-not my “belief’ but a FACT that in the U.S. at least, government is going out of their way to “assist” green energy/alternative energy/renewable energy/clean energy—-anything “green.” There are certain elected officials and appointed officials who are crazier than crazy in lathering green companies with as much money as they can get their hands on and giving them advantages. Is it a love for the planet? Is it for future political payback? I don’t know. But I DO know that Europe is a trendsetter in this movement. So it’s conceivable to me that government officials… Read more »
Avelik
Member
1 year 4 months ago
Might, Angelo, might. Do you know the meaning of the word ‘might’? It is one thing to suggest something as a possibility, it is something completely different to act as if it is a fact, while there is nothing that suggests it is a fact. You have been doing the latter, not the former. You have been talking of NEVS as intruders, saying all kinds of rubbish about the Receivers and you’ve done this countless times. So don’t tell us you’ve been suggesting a possibility, you have made direct accusations. Even the word ‘accusation’ is not suiting enough, because it… Read more »
Angelo V.
Member
1 year 4 months ago
Avelik: Commenting on a forum and suggesting BELIEFS that are not facts is commonplace. It’s done everywhere by everyone. There are usually stages to this sort of thing, these situations. Step one is pointing out conditions and seeing a motive—and asserting a belief. That’s sometimes the job of a whistleblower or even someone who puts a couple things together to form a theory. Step two is uncovering evidence, which is sometimes done by journalists. Step three—-is determining if crimes have been committed, done by investigators, police and the courts. In this case, I seriously doubt we’ll ever get to step… Read more »
Avelik
Member
1 year 4 months ago
If you really believe you haven’t stated those as facts, you just don’t know what it means to state something as a fact. Not only have you stated this in such a way, but some of your other criticisms have been based on the assumption that this is a fact. Severe, impolite criticism based on unsubstantiated beliefs. That’s what you have done. Many times. I don’t know why you send me to read comments from years ago. Do you really want me to go back and comment on comments made months and years ago? You want me to go to… Read more »
Angelo V.
Member
1 year 4 months ago

Well truly, it seems as though you’re saying I’m exceptional, and I appreciate that.

Avelik
Member
1 year 4 months ago

If you are happy to “exceptional” in this way, one can only feel sorry for you. In any way, what you are doing is wrong.

Angelo V.
Member
1 year 4 months ago

“I haven’t seen anyone that would make an unsubstantiated assumption and then base another assumption on it and then again and again, creating a story on its own and after that telling it as a fact million times, sticking it in everyone’s noses not on daily but on hourly basis.” I guess I’m learning from American politicians then, who are much better at this than I am.

Avelik
Member
1 year 4 months ago

You are learning from the wrong people, Angelo. You should change your teachers.

Aerobic
Member
1 year 4 months ago

Nearly two weeks and no more news? The ship load of money must be half way to China, or some other tax haven, by now.

Angelo V.
Member
1 year 4 months ago

Well, precisely. This isn’t NEVS biding time…this is TIME, buying relief for NEVS perhaps. If there aren’t hawks watching every movement of every penny—-it’s conceivable that the rats are stuffing the pockets of their overcoats and every crevice of their beings with anything of value they can get out of there with. I sure hope there are motivated and ruthless auditors on board—-but somehow, I seriously doubt that. If you’re right that money is moving—-it’s out of the barn and it’s not coming back.

Kimberly
Member
1 year 4 months ago

> Nearly two weeks and no more news?

Of course not. SAAB is dead. Someone shoot it through the head so the body dies.

Angelo V.
Member
1 year 4 months ago

The Phoenix platform is two weeks older too.

Joe
Guest
1 year 4 months ago

Phoenix platform should be renamed “PHANTOM platform”. The reality is..it really does not exist in any practical sense, other than in the minds of the delusional.

Angelo V.
Member
1 year 4 months ago

By the time anything is built on the Phoenix platform, anyone over 30 today will be in a nursing home.

Angelo V.
Member
1 year 4 months ago
Maybe BAIC should consider making a big move to go global. They already have Saabs in their stable—-some really nice cars and more to come. BAIC gets Phoenix. BAIC sets up shop in North America under a new name so Saab AB doesn’t have to be involved. BAIC does an end around to welcome all Saab owners to their dealerships in North America where they will service Saabs still on the road and sell their own Saabs but under a different name. Of course, there might be legalities in place to prevent this from happening—not sure what the conditions were… Read more »
Patrik H
Member
1 year 4 months ago

BAIC got essentially what NEVS got….a skeleton of the old Saab. NEVS got more in a “physical” sense with the Trollhattan factory, but both inherited powertrains and platforms. BAIC is designing cars, producing cars, and selling cars. NEVS is not. I’d love to see BAIC come in and buy the whole lot. Anybody beats these jokers.

Angelo V.
Member
1 year 4 months ago

Well, exactly. NEVS was a loser from day one—-utterly in over their heads…a ridiculous display of nothing. At least BAIC is producing cars and trying to make positive things happen—-putting their money where their mouth is and actually having a mouth. I’d love to see them get the whole ball of wax and go international. Anyone except the clowns who currently run things.

FW
Member
1 year 4 months ago

no update on this blog since April15 – what happened?

FW
Member
1 year 4 months ago

Hi FW,

sorry no update, but Mahindra will sign soon.

Joe
Guest
1 year 4 months ago

Where is the Pentobarbital for Pete’s sake? The patient is starting to decompose!

Aerobic
Member
1 year 4 months ago

Formaldehyde is better!! 🙂

Lee
Member
1 year 4 months ago

This corpse is no nosegay! Throw some lime on it.

Angelo V.
Member
1 year 4 months ago

Or slice the gut open with a kitchen knife and lay the body out in the sun for the turkey vultures to feast on.

George Goodwin
Member
1 year 4 months ago
I recently wrote NEVS to find out if I will be able to buy a new SAAB. This is the exchange. Exchange with NEVS Thank you for the response to my last query. I have another. I am wondering if you are going to make an official announcement to the public regarding the plans to build another automobile and I am wondering if you would consider announcing soon a date by which you will disclose the type and model automobile you are planning to build. The announcement of a date by which you will announce the type and model would… Read more »
Angelo V.
Member
1 year 4 months ago

Maybe you should write back to them: “Dear NEVS, on a scale of 1 to 10, 1 being ‘nearly impossible’ and 10 being ‘absolutely, it will happen sooner rather than later’ will new Saabs be sold again in the United States and Canada?”

George Goodwin
Member
1 year 4 months ago

You see, I bought my first SAAB in 1960, a new 93f. I like the cars and I just bought a 2001 95 in Sante Fe that was used to drive around that town. It had 91,000 on the odometer. It replaces my 2001 93 that I gave to my son. The 93 has 312,000 on the odometer. (Miles) I’m not sure what I would drive if there are no more SAABS. Probably an older Ford pick-up.

Angelo V.
Member
1 year 4 months ago

I wish you still had that Saab you bought in 1960! Photos would be great.

George Goodwin
Member
1 year 4 months ago
Have you seen any of Jim Smart’s cars at Smart Motors in Santa Fe, NM? During my cross country trek in my 93 (312,000 Miles) I needed an alternator (It still had the original btw!). I found another 01, this time a 95. I was attracted to Jim’s shop for all the old SAABs in the yard. Another place like this is Paul Vail’s place, Absolut SAAB, in Ramona, CA. It’s fun to see the original types of mechanics still around. Nice to go in and talk SAABs for hours and lose track of time. Name dropping like “Walter Kern”… Read more »
Angelo V.
Member
1 year 4 months ago

I did go to Kunkle Motors in Pennsylvania—and even sent photos that were published on Saabs United—-old Saabs with weeds growing around them—-some of the bodies still in quite decent condition.

Karl Ask
Member
1 year 4 months ago

Any news about Nevs??

Joe
Guest
1 year 4 months ago

Karl: Yes, they are still sucking wind…

Angelo V.
Member
1 year 4 months ago

Joe: One thing they can’t be accused of is too much hot air.
At NEVS, “The word is mum.” Maybe that can be their tagline instead of “Born From Jets.”

“AT NEVS, THE WORD IS MUM.”

roger
Member
1 year 4 months ago

How old are you guys? Like ten…?

Angelo V.
Member
1 year 4 months ago

Roger: Get us back on track. You’re right—-the dialogue has devolved to be childish. Let’s discuss some real news from NEVS—-let’s get into the nuts and bolts of what’s happening today, the current state of affairs, the direction this is headed. What’s the latest news?

roger
Member
1 year 4 months ago

Don’t be ironic! They will tell us when the negotiations are finished. Until then You’ll have to wait with the rest of us and have some patience. Your nagging and whining is really boring and makes no good for anyone.

Angelo V.
Member
1 year 4 months ago

It’s not so much nagging and whining, more like complaining and ridiculing. I guess complaining and ridiculing can be boring. Point taken.

Kimberly
Member
1 year 4 months ago

Joe, that is a very apt way to put it. 🙂

Michael Specht
Member
1 year 4 months ago

No news, good news.

Angelo V.
Member
1 year 4 months ago

That’s not a bad observation. We’ll know when there’s bad news. For now, we can still hope for a positive outcome.

Joe
Guest
1 year 4 months ago

It will be difficult to “un-cross” fingers when the long dead corpse of what once was SAAB, has the final stages of rigor mortise.

Angelo V.
Member
1 year 4 months ago

NEVS is the grim reaper I guess.

Angelo V.
Member
1 year 4 months ago

Do we have any idea when to expect another crumb of “news”? Is there another date we can look forward to—-or are we just in a holding pattern now, a NEVS twilight zone of sorts?

Joe
Guest
1 year 4 months ago

Angelo; have you not heard? Rod Serling has been named new CEO of NEVS! We have entered the “Twilight Zone”

Angelo V.
Member
1 year 4 months ago

Joe: What’s that, a corpse leading a dead company?

Joe
Guest
1 year 4 months ago

you can’t make this stuff up, Angelo!
I suspect as soon as the last penny has been extracted from this macabre process (beginning with St. Victor of Mallorca) the last shovel full of soil will be placed upon the frequently re-opened coffin of our dear friend SAAB, and the black Cadillac will finally depart…

Angelo V.
Member
1 year 4 months ago

Joe: Fitting that you chose a Cadillac to be the Hurst for Saab’s funeral, being that it’s a GM and all. In fact, a custom SRX Hurst would be the ultimate irony. Hopefully someone will warn the funeral home that NEVS is going to stiff them on the invoice.

Joe
Guest
1 year 4 months ago

Yes, Angelo..but only after NEVS engages in long “negotiations” with the undertaker and his suppliers, and promises to pay in 60 days after burial.

hughw
Member
1 year 4 months ago

My understanding was there was a 60 day window from April 15 to pay the creditors and sign agreements…..but there have been so many 60 and 90 day windows from March 2014, I may be window happy,

Angelo V.
Member
1 year 4 months ago

My head is spinning from the extensions and windows.

Lee
Member
1 year 4 months ago

Has there been even ONE creditor payed or ONE agreement signed since April 15? Maybe NEVS is saving everything up for the last minute.

Angelo V.
Member
1 year 4 months ago

Hard to say if anyone has been paid—-if there’s been any movement at all. You would hope that these stiffed creditors have received some relief or will soon. I’m holding out hope that there will be a big announcement once things are in order—-once everything has been signed—-that there is a new owner. That would be tremendous. Is it likely? I don’t know, but we can hope.

Kimberly
Member
1 year 4 months ago

> Maybe NEVS is saving everything up for the last minute.

Lee, what is it like living in denial?

SAAB is dead. Sad, but true. 🙁

Angelo V.
Member
1 year 4 months ago

Now stop that Kimberly. I’ve been chastised for raining on everybody’s parade. See how I’ve turned over a new leaf? See above. I’m not Mr. Cheeful. NEVS is back, baby—-they’re standing on their own two feet and ready to go head to head against Audi.

Kimberly
Member
1 year 4 months ago
> NEVS is back, baby—-they’re standing on their own two feet Really? So, they’re receiving parts and building the 9-3 now? Sweet! Where do I buy one? > and ready to go head to head against Audi. BWAHAHAHA! Through what dealer market, and with what product? They do not have anything to sell. Heck, even their web site is pathetic. Many dealers held on well after Muller failed, and then NEVS took over, but dealers could not get product to sell so now all the SAAB dealers have thrown in the towel long ago. There is no way NEVS is… Read more »
Lee
Member
1 year 4 months ago

Denial….sarcasm. It’s hard to tell the difference on the interwebs.

Angelo V.
Member
1 year 4 months ago

Lee is correct, sarcasm as I’m sure you knew K. And yes, Carly Fiorina would have done better than KJJ did. I actually believe the Compaq/HP merger ended up being a huge net gain/positive for shareholders, and that’s who she was working for. I think she did fine. Back to NEVS: Not so fine.

Mark G
Member
1 year 4 months ago

Unless there is clear, verifiable evidence, the entire banter is nothing but inane posturing. And it’s all very sad…

Angelo V.
Member
1 year 4 months ago
Banter, rumors and innuendo generally stop when a company steps up to explain in precise terms and reasonably complete details, their present and their future. NEVS has failed to do that since there’s been a NEVS. I’ve been following the automotive world, regularly, for about 40 years. Among serious brands, and I’d consider Saab a serious brand—-there has never been anything like this—an owner who is this out of touch with—-well, with EVERYTHING. It’s unprecedented. They have the power to take control over the narrative instead of leaving it up to others. Honest explanations of where they are now, where… Read more »
Mark G
Member
1 year 4 months ago

I agree with you about NEVS not giving anyone an understanding of what direction they were and are going. It just drives me nuts reading all the back and forth in this blog.

Angelo V.
Member
1 year 4 months ago

Well, soon enough, something has to give. There’s a conga line of creditors waiting to be paid and that can’t stay in a holding pattern much longer. I just hope for their sake that someone is playing very close attention to the financial goings on at NEVS. At this point, a great level of scrutiny must be exercised to prevent NEVS from playing a shell game or hiding money or anything of value. There should be a lockdown at this point—-I wouldn’t let them buy a 12 pack of pens without investigating it.

Joe
Guest
1 year 4 months ago

Don’t bet on it Angelo.
The fiscal incompetence of the Swedish Government is absolutely legendary:

http://www.mkeever.com/sweden.html

Angelo V.
Member
1 year 4 months ago

From the “News” section of NEVS website:

“NEVS is currently engaged in a complex series of negotiations with an unnamed potential future investor – although talks are dragging surrounding any use of the Saab name.”

They’re on their own feet. They’re standing.

Jordan
Member
1 year 4 months ago

More like a rigor mortis riddled corpse that’s propped up.

We’re almost to 30 days since this news broke and the transition from reorganization happened. What’s the latest?

Angelo V.
Member
1 year 4 months ago

They’re working behind the scenes Jordan. Have some faith. In September, no doubt they’ll be introducing that face-lifted 2016 9-3 that runs on saltwater.

Paul Willis
Member
1 year 4 months ago

Wait—-Angelo, I almost took the bait and responded to your “news” comment! Talk about being desperate for news of any kind! Criminy.

Angelo V.
Member
1 year 4 months ago

That really is in the news section on their website Paul.

Paul Willis
Member
1 year 4 months ago

I cannot see anything posted in the News link on their site that is newer than April 15. Maybe I am having trouble with my browser, but I just checked. Well, its still the same old story in any event. That text could have been plastered on their Home page for the last year. 🙁

Angelo V.
Member
1 year 4 months ago
It’s in the “News In Media” section on the right side of the screen in NEVS news section. The last paragraph in an article entitled “SWEDEN: NEVS to pay vast majority of creditors in full” And of course you’re right—-a lot of things are plastered on their home page—-outdated garbage. I’d love to know if anyone in their organization was ever responsible for maintaining the website, or if it was just a quick “Let’s get something on the internet—-my eighth grade student just finished a web design class and he could put something together for us.” and then various people… Read more »
Joe
Guest
1 year 4 months ago

I’m just glad I’m not one of NEVs creditors.
Layers upon layers of gross financial incompetence, from the Swedish Government onward…

Angelo V.
Member
1 year 4 months ago

Joe: Does this mean you aren’t going to buy one of the new facelifted electric 9-3s? Those are right around the corner.

Joe
Guest
1 year 4 months ago

Electric? Hell, I’m still mixin’ oil in my gasoline!

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