P4 Väst: NEVS presents parts of its new businessplan

December 10, 2015 in NEVS, News

Today some information was presented about the new NEVS business plan. In an interview with P4 Väst, Mattias Bergman disclosed some details and presented the different versions of cars NEVS plan to build. What the brand name of the cars will be is not yet decided since NEVS no longer has the rights to the SAAB brand name.

Original article here: http://sverigesradio.se/sida/artikel.aspx?programid=125&artikel=6323467

The first car will be an electric version of the 9-3 which will be built on the old Epsilon platform, after that new models on the phoenix platform will follow suit, all of them specially adapted for electric propulsion. Whats noteworthy is that none of the cars are a Combi and most of the cars have a hatch-back design. The cars will be built in Trollhättan and Tianjin and already this summer NEVS will start to re-employ production staff, even though the first electric 9-3 is not scheduled to enter production until sometime 2017.


129 responses to P4 Väst: NEVS presents parts of its new businessplan

  1. Interesting! Let’s see what happens! :-)

  2. These names are quite interesting, Its almost as if they went to an Grade school and asked the kids to create names for the model line up. LOL Everything start with “The”… Yeah…there’s nothing good about what happening.

    • And for the renderings/sketches too. The only one that doesn’t look ridiculous is the 9-3.

      • I see a lot of comments showing dissatisfaction with the sketches, but I’m not sure what exactly bothers people. Have you guys seen design sketches from other automakers? They all look similarly – exaggerated proportions, with huge wheels etc. I’m not sure why designers make them this way, but that’s the “standard”. Have you seen sketches of the BMW i8 or i3 (or any other car, for that matter)? They look nothing like the actual cars. Of course, if there is something else wrong with them, it would be interesting to hear.

        • Exaggerated is one thing. Butt-Ugly is another. Funny, they didn’t exaggerate the proportions of their “Corporate Sedan.”

          • The corporate sedan is a real car, the others are sketches, design proposals, a possible first step in designing a car. What in them do you find ugly? If you ask me these sketches need some work in the front to make a more recognizable and unique ‘face’. Apart from that they are not bad.

  3. I thought SU had gone dark! No content for a month, and no way I could find to even send an article that might have been of interest. There should be an icon on the site for sending info to the site administrator so we all can contribute interesting information.

    This post about the future of NEVS looks interesting. Also, the article I found suggests NEVS has hooked up with Renesas for the development of electric vehicles. Renesas is a serious player in automotive world, so this would seem to bode well for NEVS going forward: http://www.just-auto.com/news/nevs-and-renesas-agree-new-energy-china-cooperation_id164914.aspx

    • Hi Paul

      Most of us here at SU are very busy with our private lives which always has priority, but we’ll try to keep SU more up to date! We used to have a crew-email, unfortunately it got hacked a while back and we just haven’t gotten around to open up a new account.

      Kind Regards

      • No worries. I was just having SU withdrawal. It’s always fun to check out SU and find out what our friends at NEVS are up to. The Renesas thing bodes well, though the article you reference indicates pretty plainly that they do not currently have the rights to the Saab brand for production. However, the various deals that NEVS is working out with various parties may give it more clout and gravitas to maybe, just maybe, one day get the Saab moniker back.

  4. Very interesting! Nice to finally get some info on what’s going on.

    I think it’s a shame, though, that concept drawings like these always seem to get such monstrously big wheels. It makes the car look hideous, and it’s difficult to try to picture what it might actually look like under normal circumstances. I have a feeling that at least the fastback and the crossover might actually have looked good, given the chance…

  5. Anybody can draw a bunch of concepts. But hell, who knows what they can actually do. For sure, they will need to have very up to date EVs as they are evolving fast. I am very anxious to drive the Chevy Bolt, even if it has the corniest name on the planet.

  6. I see a hockey stick in there…

    • That is also what did me smile this morning. Hope they also get the Saab name back and with the Saab philosophy that Mathias Bergman still preaches, we may not give up hope yet that we can continue to drive a real Saab car is the foreseeable future.

      • The Google translation of the article states that one Swedish newspaper SVD argues the right to the brand-name is still there. However, it was not Mathias that stated in the presentation that they have no right to the SAAB brand-name, but the journalist.

        The brand name question
        Apart from details about the product and services strategy, Bergman also revealed the foundation for their new brand proposition. While the whole SAAB trademark question is still ongoing (yet Swedish daily SVD is suggesting today that NEVS will be able to use the SAAB name also for the new EV’s), brand pillars like distinctiveness, individuality and sustainability are becoming clearer.

        • There is in total 9 new models planed, so i still hope that the cars is named 9-1 to 9-9 instead of differens SUV James.

  7. Glad something is happening. The direction for other brands seems to be EV so SAAB is in line.

    • As an example- Ford Motor Company will invest heavily in electrified vehicles (EVs)
      By 2020, Ford will invest $4.5 billion in the development of EVs. The first product will be the next generation Ford Focus Electric, due out by November 1, 2016. The all electric vehicle will feature a totally new DC charging system that charges 80% of the battery’s capacity in just 30 minutes.

  8. Angelo where are you? Finally a business plan for you to criticize!! Let’s stay positive people!

    • We all love Angelo. But let him rest for now. Please.

      • No we dont! And why let him rest?

        He always demands action from NEVS. Now I demands action from Angelo…! :))

        • Well all righty now. You go Roger.

        • I’ve been trying to find as much information as I could (on SU and elsewhere) before commenting. There are going to be a bunch of new models in 2-3 years? Seems rather, “ambitious” if you ask me. Let’s define “ambitious” in this case, shall we: adj. 1. Overly enthusiastic projections of a business plan designed to keep consumer interest alive for a dead company or dead product. 2. Pack of lies to cover for incompetence. 3. Fibbing to attract media coverage when you haven’t had any positive media coverage for several years.

          • Angelo has spoken, and it’s all as positive as Angelo can be!!

          • Forget about it. There is no white knight around to save Saab. You have to live with NEVS and make the best out of it. Like all of us.


  9. The fastback could be nice, I quite like the Audi A7. I still remember the first time I saw one actually, I was quite struck by it’s design. A Saab inspired fastback would probably have me quite giddy.

  10. OMG! Heck yeah. I have already gone electric myself and my last ICE car is a Saab 95. Everything from here on out is going to be BEV for me. So as far as I can see they are setting themselves up for success even though I’m sure the luddites here will not be so forward thinking. The question that remains is will they do electric right. Will they be able to compete with Tesla for the hearts and minds of people. Here’s hoping.

    • Luddite here. I have no plans to “go electric.” However, I would point out to those so proudly patting themselves on the back for “forward thinking” that electric cars are actually a thing of the past. They were most popular over 100 years ago. :-)

      I wish NEVS success if only for improving the employment prospects in Saab’s hometown. Those concept drawings do look pretty hideous though.

      • A slight correction. EVs are from the past. ICE is a thing of the past.

        • Oh, the ICE is alive and well here. I have three Saabs with ’em and several “Brand X” vehicles. I don’t expect ICE to go away within my lifetime, particularly when you factor in trucks, buses, trains, ICE-powered aircraft, etc. 😉 At least here in the U.S. it’s a foregone conclusion that they will be used in the vast majority of vehicles for some time to come.

          Not unless we get a “Mr. Fusion” type gadget as prophesied for 2015 in Back to the Future. I’m not holding my breath on that one. We’ve been 10-15 years away from practical fusion power for the last 60 years.

          • jersey, if they want saabs for the north american market, they will still have to produce traditional ice saabs. we are not fully electric yet.

      • Toyota/Honda are already into fuel cells, with actual products—-others are hot on that too. If they prove to be successful (in much the same way the Prius was) EVs are toast.

        • Angelo,
          how old is the Prius? The story began in 1997. It has taken quite a long time for the Prius to be proven to be successful, and now the Mirai (the fuel-cell car from Toyota) will also have to fight against a non existing H2 infrastructure.

          Call me in 20 years, and we will see how far the hydrogen cars are.

          Don’t fall into the old mistake of trying to substitute petrol cars by something else. The future will show that lots of different drive-trains alternatives are possible, and everyone will choose the one that fits his needs best.

          And be assured that people will still be able to buy petrol powered cars in the mid-term future.

          • I’m a petrol car guy—-through and through. I want to own them until I pass into the big auto graveyard in the sky. My point wasn’t that fuel cell should replace petrol—-only that fuel cell is perhaps the next big thing and the one that WILL someday be viable to replace petrol, rather than EVs, that provoke “range anxiety” for good reason. On the Prius—-honestly, by the 2nd generation introduction (2004) they were very well accepted. It’s only gotten better since then.

            • Nothing wrong about that. As I’ve said, you will have the possibility to buy a brand new petrol car till the end of your days, and I wish you many happy days till then, but I want the cities to be less noisy and less polluted, if not for me, at least for my son, or maybe his son (in the future). And there is no way to get that done with petrol cars.

              On the other side, I haven’t found the EV yet, so I hope NEVS and the guys in THN get it right so I can say goodbye to my petrol SAAB.

        • Fuel cells cars are EVs too, with H2 instead of Li-ion.

          • That is correct, but I don’t think the brain trust (and I use that term lightly) at NEVS is planning on fuel cells. They’ll introduce a plug-in EV just as everyone else migrates to fuel cells.

            • When it comes to fuel cells:

              Joseph Romm, the author of The Hype About Hydrogen (2005), devoted two articles in 2014 to updating his critique of the use of fuel cells in cars. He stated that FCVs still had not overcome the following issues: high cost of the vehicles, high fueling cost, and a lack of fuel-delivery infrastructure. “It would take several miracles to overcome all of those problems simultaneously in the coming decades.” Most importantly, he said, “FCVs aren’t green” because of escaping methane during natural gas extraction and when hydrogen is produced, as 95% of it is, using the steam reforming process. He concluded that renewable energy cannot economically be used to make hydrogen for an FCV fleet “either now or in the future.” Greentech Media’s analyst reached similar conclusions in 2014.

              In 2009, Steven Chu, then the United States Secretary of Energy, stated that hydrogen vehicles “will not be practical over the next 10 to 20 years”. In 2012, however, Chu stated that he saw fuel cell cars as more economically feasible as natural gas prices have fallen and hydrogen reforming technologies have improved.

              • I’m surprised because Chu is probably fairly accurate in his appraisal. I say I’m surprised because he’s a moron.

                • Please allow me to elaborate—-as “edit” still doesn’t function here. Chu is brilliant and most definitely not a moron when it comes to physics. I refer to him as a moron only through his political activities.

  11. Off topic;
    Will there be any Saabsunited calendar this year?

  12. There is still a long long way between sketches and actual car production. I wish them all the best although I don’t like those designs, nothing that would remind me the dignity of older Saabs, more like some small city cars produced by Toyota or Renault. I don’t see myself in any of them.

  13. According to SVD (http://www.svd.se/nevs-satsar-miljarder-pa-nya-elbilar) they might even be allowed to use the name “SAAB”. Would be nice to get more details about that statement and if there is any truth in it.

    A fully electric SAAB with a nice design built on the phonenix platform, cool engineering and acceptable range would be a GREAT replacement for our secondary car (OG 9-5).

    Thumbs up!

  14. I cross my finger that they will keep the SAAB-spirit. Unfortunately, I have to say, that two SUVs do not sound very SAABish. In my opinion, I think in general “SAAB”s should be very aerodynamic, well-proportioned, not too large cars. SUVs, to me, seems much more like a trend than “off-the-box-thinking” and right now we have much to many of those high, huge-sectioned and – very often – ugly cars in the cities. Please;- For the environment, for the cities and for the SAAB-spirit; Down-size!

    • Exactly my thoughts. But obviously these days you need to come up with a line of tractor-like SUVs to stand the test of time. I hope they develop something like a compact 9-1 and a sporty Sonnet.

      GMVMNEVSififif aka F.W.

    • SUVs, CUVs …. are here to stay.

      Tesla has its new Model X:

      And even Bentley has its new Bentayga CUV.

      Look at the new 2016 Volvo XC90 ……. Motor Trend’s SUV of the year:



      SAAB *has* to have a CUV or two to stay relevant, that is the harsh reality.

      • All those SUVs.. – It´s a trend. One thing we know about trends are that they will be replaced by another trend…. – sooner or later. In this case; hopefully sooner… 😉

        • The SUV craze in the U.S. has been going on forever it seems—but the SUVs themselves keep changing. They started as trucks with luxury appointments to be more car-like—but now they’re being built on car platforms, after briefly being built on minivan platforms, which themselves were car platforms to begin with. Anyway, a lot of these SUVs are really just tall station wagons with all wheel drive—-and they now come in all sizes, including compact and mid-sized. So in a way, what we considered a true SUV 15 years ago is different now—-it might have some of the rugged look of that original SUV—-but isn’t as capable off-road—-but it rides smoother and is way more fuel efficient too—smaller package as well. Consider the Nissan Pathfinder today vs. the original. Also, consider that Porsche makes an SUV. I think these crossovers are really just a new class of car.

          • But unnecessarily tall and most of them very ugly – including Porsche Cayenne, which is a good example of bad design; – a car that intend to be it all at the same time and comes out much to heavy, much too consuming and with a vulgar, prestigious look like a huge motor-boat… We have to be more responsible and go for optimized aerodynamics, low weight and a limited max.section-area. So do SAAB/Nevs – in my opinion… and preferably combined with an elegant, slim-lined and – too some degree – more underplayed design.

            • This was meant as an answer to an earlier comment from Angelo regarding SUVs … – sorry

            • I can agree with a lot of what you said for sure. I have a 9-5 wagon and I have other cars, including a KIA minivan. I like the idea of having a van if I want a van and a car if I want a car—-haven’t really seen the need yet for a sport utility. I find that they are woefully inefficient with space. Forget fuel efficiency—-but just on space, a minivan is completely space efficient because it’s basically a shoebox shape that doesn’t waste space. An SUV is designed to look like a rugged truck and has much less space inside than a comparably sized van. If I want a vehicle to haul, I’d rather have a van. And then I could also have a sedan or couple that is much more fun to drive. I guess it’s a matter of opinion—-but I haven’t caught the SUV bug yet, though so many people have.

  15. First electric 9-3 to enter production some time in 2017… Wow. You’ll be able to register it as an oldtimer straight from day one. So you’ll not only save on fuel, but also on insurance and taxes. I think it’s a great deal.

  16. It seems Saabblog.net has covered a complete presentation and this contains some additional and interesting info.
    You can find it here: http://saabblog.net/2015/12/11/first-nevs-ev-in-2017-additional-4-new-models-to-be-launched-in-2018/

  17. Nice to see this news from NEVS before Christmas. Interesting timing as well, as Bergmans announcement come immediately after the Paris Climate Conference 2015. I hope NEVS make heavy investment in clever design and that it will be possible to recognize a lot of saabishness in their new lineup.

  18. yes indeed since the vw ceo winterkorn guru culture created the button. away with our turbo cars ? and drive with noise free cars zero pollution in a polluted atmosphere. ok with me saab cars died already years ago in these new cars you can still play classic music the same as in your saab classic but there it sounds better. you never can beat nostalgia i smile every day when i meet a saab the same as campers do when they meet old or new why? merry christmas and a happy new year regards from belgium.

    • i just read some inside info about vw ceo winterkorn fear culture when he was at a recent car expo he stepped out of a korean car and found out the gear change flipper switch on the steering wheel was perfect much better than vw he shouted for bisschoff his personal assist and said we should do better. on a normal day these ceos do a morning briefing with lunch and playing golf with friends. however his performance at vw was impressive.at su the ceo mattiias bergman as other things to do than a ceo of the was near by the largest car mfgr in the world. at su we should back up him in every way we could ….or can you do better/ for example a german named ralph speth……../ is ceo of uk jaguar landrover where the sky is the limit in car models assy plants engine plants plenty of money from tata india unbelievablle that a german ceo runs this co so great.

  19. I think this is fantastic news. These drawings are obviously early prototypes but it all sounds very exciting.

  20. will saab produce anymore gasoline cars?

    • The World is listening………….NO.
      (taken from an excellent Swedish commercial for the non-carbonated beverage MER)

      I think I read somewhere there will be no combustion engines in the new line up.

    • NO,
      they talk only about Battery EV’s and range extenders.

      • what a bunch of fools. no wonder they won’t lease the name.

        • I totally agree with you, Bradley, who would buy a EV from Saab? If I wanted and EV, I would get a Tesla. Plus their plan to become #1 in making electric vehicles is outrageous. I don’t know if NEVS realizes this but they are really far behind in EV tech. There are way bigger companies working on EVs like GM, VW, Tesla, etc. Plus there’s no advantage having an EV. Same pollution, battery and range limitations, etc. If they don’t make any Gas cars, don’t expect to see them in the next five years. Its funny how NEVS is asking itself for trouble. That’s my take on NEVS and their EV gibberish. Let’s just hope that they would offer at least one gas model.

          • I know is difficult to understand, but even if the amount of pollution is the same, it is much better if you don’t concentrate pollution in those places where people live. Life quality in the cities would be much better with EV’s. Another thing is the countryside, but EV’s are not here to substitute the IC-Engine but a further option for the personal transport.

            I don’t know if NEVS is really far behind companies like VW, GM or Toyota, I doubt it from what I know, but they are also far behind those companies and others like Ford, Hyunday, Honda, FCA, Volvo ….. in respect to ICE powered cars.

            Currently there is only one company with a serious EV, and that is Tesla. Will they be able to offer a product that is on par with the Tesla cars? This is the question, but as I’ve said before, but it is much less complicated to develop a competitive EV than a competitive petrol car, and I’m not talking about diesels, which never the less will die rather sooner than later.

          • not even offering a gas version is stupid. i hope saab doesn’t lease their name to these fools.

            • My thoughts exactly.

              • Hey guys, just watch when NEVS realizes that no one wants their Chinese built EV’s. Then they would have to listen to what the costumer what’s. Then we will have gas powers Saab’s that are built in Sweden again! Just watch, its gonna happen.

  21. I would have hoped they (NEVS) would be further along than just a few sketches. We already saw a real life prototype of the Phoenix architecture (Saab PhoeniX Concept) back in March 2011. If NEVS is using the same platform then why are we still stuck in pre-2011 development?

    • ’cause they have lost a lot of time with a financial crisis caused by the production of ICE cars that nobody wanted.

    • They were short of money (if not bankrupt) until half a year ago, therefore investment was cut to a minimum. However, according to Tim here on SU, developmenThey were short of money (if not bankrupt) until half a year ago, therefore investment was cut to a minimum. However, according to Tim here on SU, development of the Phoenix platform never really completely stopped.
      It is way too much to expect six prototypes being presented today. We do not really know in which stage NEVS’s product development is in so let’s keep patient and enjoy the encouraging news.t of the Phoenix platform never really completely stopped.
      It is way too much to expect six prototypes being presented today. We do not really know in which stage NEVS’s product development is in so let’s kThey were short of money (if not bankrupt) until half a year ago, therefore investment was cut to a minimum. However, according to Tim here on SU, development of the Phoenix platform never really completely stopped.
      It is way too much to expect six prototypes being presented today. We do not really know in which stage NEVS’s product development is in so let’s keep patient and enjoy the encouraging news.eep patient and enjoy the encouraging news.

      • Why not focus on a production version of the PhoeniX Concept? They have the IP for the architecture so again I don’t know why we are starting pre March 2011.

        Regardless, anyone in the US would be completely insane to purchase a new Saab (or NEVS or whatever it would be called). Without being part of a major manufacturer’s portfolio – it’s just way to risky to purchase from this company. Anyone who purchased a Spyker-Saab knows this point precisely (I’m one of them). The risk of the company going belly-up within the warranty period is just too high – never mind the woeful depreciation rates for this new brand. The only way these guys succeed in sell cars in N. America is to price them so low that risk/reward ratio is not to steep.

        • plus, north american consumers will not buy an electric saab, at least not true loyalists.

          • They’re smart enough to know their future does not lie with the loyalists.

            • They haven’t shown a lick of intelligence in three years—-they’re not smart enough to know anything.

              • Maybe they could employ you then? You seem to be smarter than anybody on this planet.

                • Several times, I’ve stated here that I’d be a great addition to the NEVS staff. I am not smarter than anybody on this planet and not smarter than everyone at NEVS for that matter—-I’m quite certain some of them have a higher I.Q. than I do. However, I’m better equipped in some areas than anyone there is—-at public relations in particular—-of which they have none apparently.

  22. I was hoping for something more like this on the presentation:
    Or maybe something based on Castriota’s work. But I’m sure those sketches were never meant to give a hint at what they’re really working on behind closed doors. As always, fingers crossed.

  23. It four years since Saab (Spyker) failed and all we have to see is a few childish sketches and the promise of an electric car based on a model that was obsolete 4 years ago. NEVS have had there problems but at this rate we will be lucky to see anything more than yet another design concept by the end of the decade

    • I’m with you Grumpy. The auto world is spinning at supersonic speed at the moment. I think NEV’s only hope is to make good on Chinese incentives to force electric cars into service. They simply have no choice, although by producing most of their electricity with coal, the environmental gains will not be all that great.

    • Yep, they say we’re gonna see those cars in 2018. Sounds like a joke.

      • You’ll see the next generation of crappy drawings of those cars in 2018—-that’s what you’ll see. They take a while to produce anything, you know. 3 1/2 years to get these renderings. Three more for the refined drawings I’m guessing.

        • You simply don’t know that. And lately NEVS explained quite a lot of what was happening.

          • I don’t know, which is why I said I’m guessing. As for them explaining, it’s funny—-that’s the first time I’ve heard anyone say “NEVS” and “explaining” in the same sentence, as for the better part of 3 years, they were on mute.

  24. In other news, it has been found that Santa Claus actually does exist.

  25. to redJ about comment on diesel engines how old are you? these engines with their high torque on low revs in cars and trucks ships etc will survive you in application. my landrover has now a ad blue tank of 15ltr for a year till next service. yes an ev has also high torque on low revs but you stay foot in paris and while a diesel is still going to lissabon’yes they are making noise when cold yes even the new ones ingenium developed by jlr however their offer on propulsion is what the market wants if you start from nothing like nevs you better go playing in a casino and stay out of the cars we all loved in saab our live times the diesels meet euro 6 if you take a plane to new york your personal co2 nox foot print will be the same as one year driving and heating your house on diesel the progress is still going on : higher injection pressures egr systems lambdas crankcase ventilation do you remember the famous b235R engine claim from the us market it costed saab many dollars in euro6 the system is zero for the non technical a bad pcv system can blow out and attack your engine oil and your turbo bearings first saab refusedthe claims by sayings that the us market are bad engine oil changers
    or use salad oil i believe this is not a technical site as once said by tim unless his personal car items i hope he survive the swed roads with his bmw if yes call landrover.

    • Hi Monique, reality has shown that Diesel engines are not half as good as they say. In the very near future the car pollution will be tested with a new more realistic test, and currently in those tests most of the Diesel engines produce 40x what they claime to produce on the NEDC. And when Euro7 becomes compulsory, the effort to get those stinking engines road legal will be too expensive, and that will kill the diesels. I’m old enough, by the way.

    • And btw, CO2 is bad for the climate, but NOx is toxic for humans and animals. I don’t want to live in cities, like many in Europe, that constantly exceed the maximum recommend NOx concentration in the air, and Diesel is one of the main producers of NOx.

  26. a saab car was once bought for the flwg reasons like i did ultimate save rescue rigidity in the doors front and tail and bottom when you open a door you can hung on it not to forget the engine hood and relaxing heated seats front and rear and a hatchback on the rear where you can put in a house and a top interior they were built in steel and now i drive a land rover in aluminium flexible as your skin the same material as the first trains in the us where made is ancient history material coming back?

  27. yes it did i just figured out that my new camper is made with alu walls and poly e engine hood the heating in the living is a sweden alde system perfect normally you would expect from the sweden engineers its not normal if they do something it is miriacle .

  28. As someone mentioned above the car business is changing at a very fast rate, and it now clear that EV’s are being turned out at a amazing speed. GM is going to put a car out next year that can do 200 miles between re-charging and the price? about US 32,000 without federal rebate. If they do that, they car going to sell a lot of cars in the US and I would think Ford is very near the same product. So it turns out NEVS was on to something. Fuel cell cars maybe are the true future but, EV’s are coming first. My question is this, if NEVS is going to make cars in Trollhatan, and China as well, does this mean a return to European markets? Why would you ship cars from Sweden to sell in China when you have a 200,000 car plant up and running? Also how tough are current European regs vs.current Chinese regs?are they about he same at this time?

    • Hi Chris,
      regarding the two factories, it looks like NEVS plans is to produce 60k -120k cars in Trollhättan mainly for the European market, and up to 200k cars in Tianjin for the Chinese and US Market. But for the next 2 years the factory in Tianjin will not able to build cars from scratch thats why the bodies will be build and painted in Sweden, and then sent to Tianjin.

      • Saabdog, So what you are saying is the recent Paris accords are a joke and no one intends to follow them?
        The Chinese have finally got on broad due to the massive number of premature deaths. It’s clear that is why they, the central govt., have pumped millions into NEVS( Saab). Either way it should be interesting.

        • The Paris talks will be about as effective as Kiyoto was. The hot air coming from those conferences is what’s warming the globe.

    • Just because manufacturers are jumping on the EV bandwagon doesn’t mean EV’s are going to be successful in the marketplace. There is still a VERY large segment of the market that DOES NOT want, need or can use an EV. Another aspect that no none is mentioning is the fact that EV’s are heavily subsidized by government(s), and if history is any indication, most things that government touches usually wind up being a mess. Also, the world is drowning in very cheap petroleum at the moment with no end in sight. EV’s will have an almost impossible task competing with cheap fuel prices in a “free market”. The demise of the ice has been greatly exaggerated ever since the first fuel crisis of the 1970’s. The experts were wrong then and it’s my honest opinion they are wrong now. Viva the ice!

      • Saabdog, So what you are saying is the recent Paris accords are a joke and no one intends to follow them?
        The Chinese have finally go on broad due to the massive number of premature deaths. It’s clear that is why they, the central govt., have pumped millions into NEVS( Saab). Either way it should be interesting.

        • Chris, I guess what I am saying (and history bears this out), is that central planning has never worked compared to free markets. And it is waaaay too early to assume that the Paris accords will work as proposed. And from what I can tell, the Paris accords are a wealth distribution scheme that will only hurt participating nation’s economies in a misguided effort to try and control the earth’s climate. Mark my words, there is a select elite number of politicians who will become very wealthy from this agreement — and the world’s climate will change not one iota.

          • 1) Regardless of what human beings do, or don’t do, we aren’t going to change the climate. Forces far greater than human activity dictate the long term climate and short term weather.
            2) Yes, it’s a wealth redistribution scheme. The idea is to tax residents of developed economies for using energy—-and take the money and hand it over to the U.N. and/or directly to third world governments—-it will not make temperatures cooler or warmer—-it will not give the earth more rain or less rain—-it will not slow the rise of the oceans or stop earthquakes, floods, hurricanes, etc.
            3) China, India, Mexico and other nations where manufacturing is growing in leaps and bounds—-and pollution is as well—–are not going to smother their own growth by throwing a wet blanket on their economies. What happened to the “Thousands of charging stations in China by 2015”? You know the ones—-those charging stations that were going to make the Saab 9-3 EV by NEVS a smash hit this year? Where are the charging stations? Where is that infamous infrastructure that the Chinese were going to lead the world with? LMAO.

            • Pure delusion, clearly from a non-scientist.

              • No, delusion and fantasy is believing that we can control the climate and sea levels.

              • Spoken like a true government “scientist”.

                • They can’t deliver a letter on time and we’re supposed to believe that they’ll control the sea levels. LMFAO.

                  • Government programs don’t change behavior? Really? You are old enough to remember when the average US car got 15 MPG. The cafe program has worked wonders over the last 30 years. How about air bags. Your party fought them tooth and nail for 20 years, and now what? far fewer deaths. Same thing with healthcare, the GOP fought it for 50 years, and is still fighting it, even knowing it will save lives.

                    Climate change? Not happening right. Your leader Herr Trump has told us so. People aren’t dying from air pollution, right? The job creators always make the right decisions for the workers, really? I have read your posts over the years and I think I now need to point out to our European friends that not everyone in America is a far, far right conservative. I’m writing this to let them know these views are in the minority here. Don’t believe that ? See what happens next November.

                    • Thanks Chris for your post. I felt the same way as a Canadian during the far too long dark ages of Stephen Harper. Unfortunately, I’m afraid his Trumpness is appealing to (far to) many paranoid, misinformed and racist US citizens.

                    • Chris: Of course govenment programs can change behavior. People don’t want to be fined or go to jail. Hitler changed behavior. So has Obama. My point is that changing this behavior isn’t going to change the climate. Our behavior won’t move the needle enough to do anything. This “change in behavior” will only take money from some people and give that money to other people. Oh, and as far as No 9 bringing racism into it—-that’s what the left does to try to shame the right from political positions that have zero to do with race, gender, etc. It used to work but thankfully, it’s not working anymore. We understand now that they are going to revert to that to try to bully us—-and aren’t having any of it.

            • The debate on global warming/climate change is, predictably, become more of a political debate than anything else. The hard scientific evidence largely supports that human activity is having an impact on global climate to some degree. It is horrifically complex, but the preponderance of the work in peer-reviewed scientific journals generally supports climate change. Peer-review is important, as scientists have to publish their research for others to potentially pick-apart and criticize. Politicians do not have to adhere to any such protocols, as they typically spout crap designed for manipulation and are rarely held to true account for what they say. I would rather rely on those who have made the effort to apply the scientific method to the issue.

              p.s. even if climate change wasn’t a problem, outright pollution is a massive problem in the developing world. Their pollution primarily impacts them, but it does also impact all of us to some degree, so there is merit in working to control emissions just for that purpose.

              • Totally agree with your well balanced assertion.

              • Read about climategate to get some insights into peer review. And listen to the scientists who have a differing opinion—-and how they’ve had funding cut and have been blackballed. This is absolutely political—-it’s politicians using scientists as puppets to promote a political agenda in my opinion. I agree with you by the way, that in and of itself, pollution is reason enough to take action to curb it. But when I see and hear about how they want to grab money from some people and some nations to turn it over to other people and other nations—-I realize this isn’t about the Earth’s climate or the Earth—it’s about people and politics.

                • North Carolina passed a law about two years ago that required that predictions on seal levels be tied to historical data only. This was largely supported by real estate developers who didn’t want predictions to interfere with their coastal development plans. It is like me saying, hey, my future health is going to be ok because I have not had a heart attack over the past 20 years, so me now eating doughnuts every day shouldn’t be a problem, despite the fact that my recent cholesterol levels have increased. Averaged over the past 20 years, they are fine.

                  So, there is political maneuvering on this from all sides. The chicken little predictions are not any better than the Luddites who refuse to acknowledge climate change no matter what. The truth, like most things, lies somewhere in the middle.

                  • In this case, the truth isn’t in “the middle.” I’d be willing to say the truth is “between the two extremes” and my guess is that it’s about 5 degrees away from the truth that humankind isn’t causing climate change—-and it’s about 95% away from the lie that humans are the primary cause of climate change.

  29. to redJ about diesels nice comment 100 percent correct yes always hated these black smoke at gear change however that is lack of maintenance. in belgium the diesels have majority mostly due to tax matters but we move to petrol due to the same price for diesel and petrol just economics not the bad nox the NOx on diesels is the most difficult one to cope with and has a price tag nitrogen is in the air the test methods were far from reality every wan knew that the same as for fuel consumption but that is lobby and politics because of a internal war soviet style at vw every thing is open in the air now the greens love it not the wolfsburg people half the city works there but they have a money reserve 0f 28 miljard euros angelsaks abbreviation . saab and bmw turned to dieseis very late the saab fiat ttid two turbo was perfect not the tid ilivealso outside cities surrounded by oaks the leaves produce pure oxygen but to the point again to make me believe that diesels cars are something of the past is whisfull thinking any way i have new mate on this site my other mate a uk camper guru died on cancer 73 years old so i do not know what to do with my selve now rgds.

    • to redJ about diesels nice comment 100 percent correct yes always hated these black smoke at gear change however that is lack of maintenance. in belgium the diesels have majority mostly due to tax matters but we move to petrol due to the same price for diesel and petrol just economics not the bad nox the NOx on diesels is the most difficult one to cope with and has a price tag nitrogen is in the air the test methods were far from reality every wan knew that the same as for fuel consumption but that is lobby and politics because of a internal war soviet style at vw every thing is open in the air now the greens love it not the wolfsburg people half the city works there but they have a money reserve 0f 28 miljard euros angelsaks abbreviation . saab and bmw turned to dieseis very late the saab fiat ttid two turbo was perfect not the tid ilivealso outside cities surrounded by oaks the leaves produce pure oxygen but to the point again to make me believe that diesels cars are something of the past is whisfull thinking any way i have new mate on this site my other mate a uk camper guru died on cancer 73 years old so i do not know what to do with my selve now rgds.

  30. Red J: Thanks for the answer about the factories!

  31. to red j i was just planning a trip to our sea side with my camper and want to heat up the camper by the engine coolant which is possible by the swed alde system but i had start up problem i just called alde and had a engineer who advised what to do i thanked him very much and asked him he drove saabs yes he said a viggen isaid which colour he said blue so i have acontact there direct .

  32. my partner just told me that is not allowed to enter the city of antwerp with a diesel car i asked why he said ice car engines are now chemical factories buy full electric he said and the wood in the open fire is also a problem and the lawn machine in the garden should also be electric the heating in the house should change from oil to ???? natural gas ? i said electric cars are not save yet they can fire or explode same as the battery of your electric bike and your camper has a diesel engine then he said i was just yoking.