Jiang Dalong On The Panda Deal

Photo by Reuters
Electric 9-3 in NEVS’ Beijing Headquaters – Photo by Reuters

NEVS’ chairman Jiang Dalong spoke to Reuters about the deal with Panda and the future of electric vehicles. While I want to take out a few interesting excerpts you can read the full article here.

“China is going to be the world’s biggest market for electric cars,” Jiang said in an interview in his office in Beijing. “China has no choice. They have to wean themselves from conventional gasoline combustion cars,” he added, describing the recent sharp uptick in air pollution levels in China’s capital as “terrible” and “crazy”.
“Big existing automakers are too big. They cannot stop producing conventional gasoline combustion cars. But we can … switch to new energy cars.”

In general I have to agree with him here. For China it’s of course the issue of air pollution but also, according to some calculations that I read a while ago, if China would reach a car per people ratio that is close to for example Europe, they would need the entire world production of gasoline and diesel to run those cars. So currently the way the Chinese government wants to take is electromobility and it can’t be a fault to be part of it.

The biggest question mark is Chinese economy which seems to be in some difficult times the moment. But given the long term of this investment I would not judge it just from today. China may not grow at a rate like they did in the last decade but they will get back to a path that is solid.

Then it’s about the Panda deal and its financing:

Panda New Energy, which is funded by a Beijing investment fund called Hasun Asset, won’t have to pony up the whole US$12 billion for the cars, according to Jiang and Panda’s Sun Wei.

The two executives said Panda New Energy will pay NEVS for the cars from a four-to-five-year stream of revenue it expects from leasing those 250,000 EVs. All Panda New Energy will have to come up with is a deposit as little as 10 percent, Jiang said.

Panda New Energy initially expects to receive an all-electric minibus that seats 38 passengers and an electric commercial van. Jiang said production of the minibus and the MPV cars are due to start gradually in 2016 at the Tianjin factory, which he said is already half-completed.

Over the next four to five years, Panda New Energy will buy 50,000 minibuses and 50,000 courier vans, Jiang said. Sun said courier service companies in China ,such as one run by 58.com, will use the commercial vans.

The rest of the deal – 150,000 vehicles – are all EVs based on the Saab 9-3, a sedan. Panda New Energy plans to lease them to taxi-like chauffeur service companies.

So there we have at least a little more info on who stands behind Panda New Energy. And, even more interesting, we get to know that the deal is not only about the 150 9-3 EVs but also about other vehicles that most likely won’t be based on a Saab. While we most likely don’t want to drive them this means business that in the end can generate revenue for the plans that NEVS have for their own car lineup.

Altogether this is not a major boost in information but still at least a bit more insight into the deal.

Aaron Dominguez
Member
8 months 23 days ago

So I’m guessing there’s no rights to the SAAB brand then?

Skipper
Member
8 months 23 days ago

Aaron, there was an intervju by a Swedish Radio reporter about a week ago, where Jiang- for the first time – admitted that they can/will not use the SAAB brand. The intervju was also in the P4 Väst homepage. They are now developing a new brand.

I have seen it coming for more than two years -the Wallenberg family will not allow any more SAAB:s.

saabyurk
Member
8 months 22 days ago

I like the “Koenigsaab” suggested by John in the Freevalve article. Probably couldn’t get away with that though.

The article also said Jiang sold his bio-power generation business. Is this now his sole venture?

John
Member
8 months 22 days ago

Awww. 🙂

saabtec
Member
8 months 22 days ago

“SAAB” is still on NEVS’ website. Seems like that would not be tolerated if your statement is correct?

Angelo V.
Member
8 months 22 days ago
It’s disturbing, isn’t it? The carpetbaggers need to be shut down. Get anything “Saab” away from them. Cease and desist. I don’t want these pretenders to have the Saab name on their website, or on the building they were gifted—-someone needs to go in there and take away anything with Saab on it—-coffee mugs, pens, all of it. Make it crystal clear that they only thing they have that WAS Saab is some real estate and old tooling. None of it is Saab anymore. The Saab name can rest in peace or maybe, with the proverbial “fingers crossed” it can… Read more »
dcpattie
Member
8 months 22 days ago

The entire situation was forced by Sweden’s ultra leftist politics of the time in history. A stronger central government with (at least some) nationalistic sentiments might have saved SAAB. Of course these nationalistic views are growing stronger throughout Europe at the moment. It is a shame that NEVS gets to occupy the wonderful facility in Trollhatten.

Angelo V.
Member
8 months 22 days ago

Pattie: Agree with all of that. And “It’s a shame” is a bit of an understatement. I would tell you how I would phrase it—-but it’s possible children visit this site, so I’ll just leave it at that.

Red J
Member
8 months 22 days ago

Angelo, I also have to agree with you.
When I first saw those pictures from Reuters, only Whisky Tango Foxtrot came to my mind.

I hope such abominations like this “cheapest & ugliest fake grill ever” is only for China under a non-SAAB brand, or as other Chinese have done before (See BAIC) this is just to show a car but has nothing to do with any product they will ever have for sale.

Avelik
Member
8 months 22 days ago

My guess (and hope) is this grill will be used only on test vehicles.

Avelik
Member
8 months 22 days ago
Nevs and KJJ in particular have been talking about developing another brand since the exit from reorganization. In the same time they have continued showing interest in the SAAB brand. So KJJ talking about a new brand is not necessary something to be seen as news. In a recent article Teknikens värld said that according their sources the brand issue is still open for discussion. Of course, how accurate this information is is everyone’s guess. Now people will wonder why would they need another brand if they had access to the SAAB branding rights. A possible answer is to be… Read more »
Angelo V.
Member
8 months 22 days ago

Yet in the Spring of 2012, when the fiasco kicked off, I read right on these pages how important it was for them to have the Saab name—-how the image of Saab’s European luxury roots was such an important part of their plan in breaking into the Chinese market.

Avelik
Member
8 months 22 days ago

Who said it isn’t now?

skalman
Member
8 months 22 days ago

What he said in that interview, and have said earlier the last year, is that they will have a chinese brand. There is still talks about using Saab in other markets.

Angelo V.
Member
8 months 22 days ago
“Big existing automakers are too big. They cannot stop producing conventional gasoline combustion cars. But we can … switch to new energy cars.” This is preposterous. Of course, what else can we expect when someone from NEVS opens their mouth? It’s nonsense. And I don’t care how loyal anyone here is to NEVS or how badly they want to see this mess succeed—-the fact of the matter is that it’s ridiculous to assert that a tiny sliver of nothing that hasn’t accomplished a single meaningful task yet in the automotive world, is better prepared to meet these claimed new market… Read more »
rune
Member
8 months 22 days ago
‘Too big to fail’, eh? 🙂 IBM springs to mind. In the 80s they became synonymous with the Personal Computer, but by the very next decade were becoming quite irrelevant. PS/2 failed and they were left with laptops. And eventually the ThinkPad brand was sold off and became Lenovo. AFAICT Lenovo are relatively successful at the moment, but I doubt it is the first brand that springs to mind if you ask the average punter what laptop they’re going to buy next. (My wife has a Lenovo and loves it. Nothing wrong with Lenovo, it just isn’t quite as popular/recognized… Read more »
Avelik
Member
8 months 22 days ago
“My chief objection remains the old “what will happen if China sees the same saturation of cars as Europe (or the USA)?” chestnut. Well…. Before they can get to that point, they’d have to invest in a lot more roads and parking facilities.” When people hear this sentence about cars saturation they imagine those traffic jam pictures from Beijing or Shanghai and think “these cities can’t accommodate anymore cars” . And it’s true, there is not much place for new cars in those cities. The thing is, China is not its top 10 cities. There are around 50 cities in… Read more »
meccano
Member
8 months 21 days ago

The “Big existing automakers are too big” comment is nonsense as NEVS went bankrupt trying to build a few dozen cars with traditional ICE engines. If they produce 1 electric car that someone could buy (or lease) that would be a 100% improvement over their current production of ZERO cars. Say what you want about any big existing Japanese, European or North American automaker you want but the truth is they are lightyears ahead of NEVS in bringing a non traditional powered modern cars to market.

Paul Willis
Member
8 months 22 days ago
Angelo, though I likely will not agree with you on climate change, I do agree with your assessment about this recent announcement. I, too, was amazed at the statement that large automakers are unable to make EVs. Not only does that not make sense from a resource/capability perspective, it is not even an actual fact, as several large automakers have EVs right now. One could argue that the larger makers will take too much time to move in the EV direction in the big way needed for China, but that is a totally different issue, and that is debatable. This… Read more »
Avelik
Member
8 months 22 days ago
A few things. NEVS is not required to have a local partner not because they intend to make cars only for China, but because they want to make only EVs. The article does not state it clearly. The license for EV producers are different from those for ordinary car makers. If a foreign car maker wants to make cars in China they need to establish a JV with a local car maker. That’s the regulation. The regulation for EV producers are different. They focus on the technology and so on. The goal is to open the market up. Nevs don’t… Read more »
Angelo V.
Member
8 months 22 days ago
Avelik: If I read the comment correctly, part of it was that big companies can’t stop producing internal combustion engined cars. Sure they could, if the market requires it or if the market demands it. I’m a big believer in letting the market demand it instead of the government require it (which ends up picking winners and losers—a corrupt way for government to operate). But either way, if suddenly there is a need for GM in China to crank out hundreds of thousands of Volts, at the expense of gas engined cars, GM could manage that. If a need becomes… Read more »
Avelik
Member
8 months 22 days ago

Of course big companies can switch to making electric cars. The thing is that big companies are huge organizations built around producing conventional cars and making a change in this structure requires big efforts, but in the same time everything those companies do is done this way because of their scale. In the end of the day, such statements should be read as “We are very focused on what we do” , nothing more.

zippy
Member
8 months 22 days ago

The fat lady sung in December 2011. This while NEVS thing was a farce from day one.

Angelo V.
Member
8 months 22 days ago
yep. See my comment to Avelik above. This is sad. It’s the worst time since Saab was founded—-to be a fan of Saab cars. It’s become hopeless with this owner. And this is honestly the first owner of Saab we can say that about. It’s hopeless. Nowhere else to go. It feels as though Saab was sold out by a few people in Sweden who have now washed their hands of it, while NEVS has run things into the ground for 4 years. They’ve done it in a pathetic way too—-no emotion, nothing. At least Vic Muller gave it his… Read more »
Paul Willis
Member
8 months 21 days ago
I know that we Saab faithful have tried to be optimistic, but it is really getting hard to stay that way. As some have pointed out, NEVS is really a Chinese company and its only ties to Saab are rights to what is really an old Saab design (the 9-3) and some extremely tenuous (at best) ties to the Saab brand. I still hope that somehow out of this they find a way to build what we would/could call a Saab, but it is a hell of a long way from where things are now, or are headed,to a Saab… Read more »
Avelik
Member
8 months 21 days ago

They are going to build the car bodies in Trollhättan and move them to Tianjin for assembly. I don’t know how expensive this will be.
There is a thing people overlook when thinking about the relation between Saab and Nevs and it is that what connects the two is not only the factory and the platforms, but more importantly the people who work there, who are predominantly people with SAAB background. After all, it’s the people who make the company.

cpmoneymakerinfo
Member
8 months 20 days ago

yes avelik they are the close combat people but they worked before for Gm are you afraid for the cup of tea in the afternoon and your predominantly attitude will not be accepted Landrover has three shifts a day.

saabboy1
Member
8 months 22 days ago

I’m not convinced that the Saab name is dead. I still believe the Swedish people and the Swedish Government will keep saab alive anyway they can. Somehow they will find a way to use it again whether it be with this company NEVS or with someone else.

Skipper
Member
8 months 22 days ago

Swedish people and Swedish Government does not give a shit – however SAAB fans and the Wallenberg family do. Fans want SAAB – if “good”, but W does not, because they think it is sacred and a threat to their weapons industry if misused. W will prevaile.

saabdog
Member
8 months 22 days ago

It’s too late for the Swedish people and government to keep Saab alive. Sadly, that ship has sailed.

cpmoneymakerinfo
Member
8 months 21 days ago

As angelo said that real saab ship has never sailed out of sweden.My saabs came by ship to antwerp port .Genuine saabs built by saab. SURE it was not nice to see opel parts in the car. But the fuck it has a saab badge. I still feel sad that saab have giving away all their diamonds and base structure. Landrover and volvo did not.Tell me if Iam wrong. As ABBA sung the winners take it all and the losers as to fall.The children at that time believed they came from PLUTO. Money still makes the world go round.

Dagen Runt
Member
8 months 22 days ago
“Panda New Energy, which is funded by a Beijing investment fund called Hasun Asset, won’t have to pony up the whole US$12 billion for the cars, according to Jiang and Panda’s Sun Wei. The two executives said Panda New Energy will pay NEVS for the cars from a four-to-five-year stream of revenue it expects from leasing those 250,000 EVs. All Panda New Energy will have to come up with is a deposit as little as 10 percent, Jiang said.” “Panda said it plans to lease the cars for commercial fleets, such as taxis and courier services.” PLANS to lease for… Read more »
Avelik
Member
8 months 22 days ago

I wouldn’t see a particular choice of words of the author as an indication if Panda have deals or not, especially when this choice of words isn’t anything out of the ordinary. I may say “I plan to go on vacation to Italy this summer” having booked a hotel, bought airplane tickets and made other preparations. I could say “I’m going on a vacation” instead of “I plan”, but it doesn’t actually matter. And the revenue is expected because it’s from activities to happen in the coming 5 years, it would be strange to say anything else but ‘expected’.

Dagen Runt
Member
8 months 22 days ago

Planning a holiday and planning a car factory to make 150 000 vehicles… comes down to how well the plans are made. Have Panda secured deals yet? What are the risks involved here? Nevs had a hard time selling a couple of hundred 9-3s in Sweden. If they actually have to sell their EVs on a free market, they have to convince their clients. Awful lot of work ahead for Panda, unless they are connected behind the scenes.

Avelik
Member
8 months 22 days ago

This is business, there’s always risk. We here don’t know if Panda already have secured deals or not, but I don’t think they’ve disided to make a company because leasing cars seemed cool to them. The company behind Panda seems to be a solid one and my guess is that they wouldn’t go into this thing without any guarantee they would have clients.

Dagen Runt
Member
8 months 21 days ago

I should think so. It would sound better if they already were able to claim that so-and-so has signed a deal or a Victoresue MOA to lease the cars. After all, 11 billion US$ are riding on such a party emerging before long.

skalman
Member
8 months 22 days ago

Have you been in China? Have you travelled in taxis in China? If you have I do not think you would have written this. Legroom is not a problem.

Dagen Runt
Member
8 months 22 days ago

It is if you intend to hit the luxury sedan market, which Nevs claimed in the first place. Nevertheless, 9-3 is a small car on the inside, especially when compared to the A4s and 3-series of today, let alone their extended wheelbase versions. As a local brand, and not as a Saab, maybe the idea isn’t to make an impact in the business segment anymore, but provide a cramped cab experience for everyman.

Phillip
Guest
8 months 21 days ago

I’ve been in a lot of taxis in China and the leg room in them has been more than what the 9-3 has. I thought about this too as the 9-3 is quite a small car.

NickT
Member
8 months 22 days ago

Here’s the thing guys, NEVS doesn’t give a shit about Saab fans. They can care less about us. They only care about what the Chinese government says. NEVS is not a private company, it’s a state owned company . So hold on to your Saab’s for as long as you can since you’re not going to see another one in a very long time.

cpmoneymakerinfo
Member
8 months 21 days ago

RIght NIcolas be careful they are interested in your present saab. In my living area all milkpowder is sold up by the chinese because of their own milkpowder infection crisis.

scand
Member
8 months 21 days ago

My Mom said: “Never trust a person who has different names , depending on what country he is supposedly doing business in”

(and you know what they say about Moms: They are always right!)

Avelik
Member
8 months 21 days ago

It is a common practice for Chinese people doing something (not only business) in the West to choose a local name to make the communication easier, exactly the way foreigners in China often have Chinese names.

cpmoneymakerinfo
Member
8 months 21 days ago
Aveilk. And these foreigners speak chinese too beside their chinese names? As a world wide traveller i can tell you this:If you step out of a train in a foreign country without speaking the language on the ground you are in the dark. Like the swedes and germans. I have adopted a bulgarian boy out of the shit and he learned our small dutch language very vast among english coming from cyrillic alphabet. just amazing . Now he is excursion manager on a cruise ship and i have to look to the ports and beaches he visits .
Avelik
Member
8 months 20 days ago

Yes, they do. This concerns people who live in China or whose lives are in some way connected to China. Best wishes to you and your family.

FW
Member
8 months 21 days ago
NEVS car without Saab logo would be a huge disappointment for me. The german Saabblog sounds more optimistic and seems to side with Avelik – there has not been any decision on this matter on that! Tom from saablog follows a much more NEVS-critic stance than SU does but in recent weeks he sounds quite optimistic towards the owners of Saab heritage. NEVS will sell all these MPV and buses to Chinese authorities under a hopefully different (sdic!) brand name and will try to acquire the Saab name rights for the 2018 passenger car models onwards. Honestly I do not… Read more »
Angelo V.
Member
8 months 21 days ago

“Don’t they want a strong, thriving automotive Saab brand?” Answer: Yes, they do. That’s why they cannot let NEVS have use of the name. NEVS will further bury the name and they simply can’t take that risk. Better to not have an automotive brand associated with the name Saab, then to have this group running it—-people who have had 4 years to do something positive and have failed to the point of travesty.

FW
Member
8 months 21 days ago
again: as there is no BMW or VW around to aquire the remains of Saab we have to live with NEVS, an underfunded (compared to huge OEM) company backed by the Chinese govt, with poor customer communication skills and trying the best it can to bring Saab back to life. That’s NEVS. Believe: I would have loved if someone more competent and bigger would have taken over but this ship has sailed. And if NEVS will bury the name anyway there is no real sense in discussing all this whether NEVS will not use the Saab name or it will… Read more »
FW
Member
8 months 21 days ago

sry, forgot my sig 😉

FW aka GMVMNEVSififif

Joe
Guest
8 months 21 days ago

GM was the savior of SAAB; delayed its inevitable demise.

cpmoneymakerinfo
Member
8 months 21 days ago

yes Joe In some way the marriage failed . But live goes on with or with
out saab. lets people give a change(john lennon)

3cyl
Member
8 months 21 days ago
I wonder if SAAB would have worked well for Fiat. At least in the US, an Abarth based car with SAAB styling would have sold much better as an entry level SAAB than it has as an expensive Fiat. The new Alfa Giulia range despite being RWD would also probably do better in the US as SAABs (AWD is supposed to be an option). Perhaps this would not be the case in Europe, but in the US SAAB as small as it was was already established and had an image worth building on whereas Fiat and Alfa don’t have the… Read more »
Angelo V.
Member
8 months 21 days ago
Without GM, Saab would have died on the vine a long, long time ago. The most reliable Saabs were manufactured during the GM era. GM pumped a lot of money into the brand but mismanaged it. GM did the same thing—-mismanaging divisions—–to Pontiac, Oldsmobile, Saturn, etc. Look how many markets Saab was selling in during the GM era. They were a global car company, unlike now. NEVS is Chinacentric to the point of alienating most people who had hoped to someday buy another new Saab. I’ve come to realize that’s not going to happen. I will enjoy my ’04 9-5… Read more »
Matthew
Member
8 months 21 days ago
Why do you come here again? This is SaabsUnited which covers Saab news. This site does not dwell much with articles of the past. The only thing you will find here is mostly NEVS news. Do you think you are improving the atmosphere of this site by replying to ever comment with a negative quip? We don’t know if Saab would have died long ago if GM didn’t buy them. I only blame GM after 2004 when they decided they wanted to spend Saab’s budget rebadging GM cars. I don’t know how you expect NEVS to be able to operate… Read more »
Joe
Guest
8 months 21 days ago

GM was the savior of SAAB; delayed its inevitable demise.

Avelik
Member
8 months 21 days ago
Brands don’t have inevitable demise, they don’t have natural life expectancy. Those brands existing for more than a century don’t exist because they have good genes. They exist until today because they have been managed well enough to get through good and bad. GM gave SAAB much needed stability. Without this stability it is possible that SAAB wouldn’t have survived. Under GM SAAB existed for two decades which resulted in many good things. That’s a fact. The problem is that the job of GM wasn’t to keep Saab alive. It was to make Saab successful. And they failed with that.… Read more »
Angelo V.
Member
8 months 20 days ago
Avelik: In a lot of ways, GM was and might still be a dinosaur in a changing world. I say this because during much of my lifetime—-probably the first 20-25 years of my life (which began in the early 1960s) General Motors dominated—-they had over a 50% market share in the U.S. and were successful in other places too—–with a strategy that is actually the opposite of what you assert they should be doing now. And I agree with you by the way—-but hear me out: During those years, they had five core divisions and GMC Trucks. The five core… Read more »
Joe
Guest
8 months 20 days ago

GM was not without fault for sure. But in the context of SAAB, they did extend their natural market-life beyond projected, and made some interesting, and dare I say, the best cars that ever wore a SAAB nameplate.

Avelik
Member
8 months 20 days ago
Again, I would say that there isn’t such thing as natural market life or projected life span for a brand. It is not like SAAB was doomed to fail and GM delayed this inevitable end. SAAB wasn’t likely to survive on their own without a big parent or partner so the sale to GM was indeed crucial for Saab’s survival. But from that moment on the fate of the brand was in the hands of GM, it was up to them to determine if Saab had a place on the market. When Audi was bought by VW it wasn’t the… Read more »
Joe
Guest
8 months 20 days ago

Ok, Avelik. I could agree with that…

hughw
Member
8 months 21 days ago
We come here, not because we want NEVS news, we want Saab news. NEVS news has from the beginning been disheartening, inaccurate, and misleading…..If NEVS, against all odds, somehow succeeds in China, many of us could care less unless it also leads to the rebirth of SAAB as a global brand worth buying…..If you believe that, you probably believe in fairies….so we come here, beyond all reason, with the hope that somehow something will develop regarding SAAB….what that is I don’t know; perhaps a FIAT or a BMW or a VOLVO buying the rights to the name and producing real… Read more »
cpmoneymakerinfo
Member
8 months 20 days ago

hughw hope johana give me hope johana. johana=nevs

cpmoneymakerinfo
Member
8 months 20 days ago

Matthew sorry for spoiling your atmosphere on saab united.

Jesse Crandle
Member
8 months 21 days ago

Panda, it’s a terrific name, don’t you think? Saab had the griffin, and many mascots are fierce ferocious animals, strong, high up on the food chain… but not our dear friends at Panda! They have instead picked a truly fitting spirit animal and company name. Pandas are declining rapidly in population, won’t procreate, require Chinese government intervention for nourishment. They’re slow, docile, fairly helpless, and only have a future in zoos. I’d say the choice of the name was more calculated and genius than anyone has given them credit for.

Angelo V.
Member
8 months 21 days ago

Jesse: For this company, I think an extinct animal comes to mind: The Dodo bird. It couldn’t fly. This mess won’t fly either.

cpmoneymakerinfo
Member
8 months 21 days ago

Jesse: if this is the end for saab cars its is the end. SUNG by jim morrison of the DOORS died very young age. buried at famous grave yard pierre lasaise in PARIS among other famous people. LET it BE.

3cyl
Member
8 months 20 days ago

Monique, He’s been sighted since. Death faked say some. If so, perhaps employed by Volvo using obscure alias. SAAB death appears real. When the Music’s Over (turn out the lights).

quieteye
Member
8 months 19 days ago

900T comment cannot be edited to correct spelling of (intended) “cornering” due to comment marked as spam? No doubt a status applied as resembling the story of Saab itself – no longer a valid entity in a forum even as provided for its existence..

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